>>153211816
>Do Timfags really?
I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that, while the show was airing, DC promoted Johns' Teen Titans as an entry point for the cartoon fans. So a lot of them probably assumed it was Tim because in the comic back then it was Tim hanging out with Beast Boy, Raven, Starfire and Cyborg.

Old issues also weren't as easy to find as they are today where you can just Google "Batman #379 read online" and it will show up for free. So you either had to find back issues or look up character wikis or forums to know the Robin in the show was in fact Dick and not Tim.

But yeah, anybody arguing about it today is just delusional. The romance with Starfire and him becoming Nightwing in the future just makes it non-debatable.

>>153211816
Spiky hair also make him look more like Tim. Originally Dick Gayson Robin had more of a nicely combed preppy hairstyle

>>153211816
Funny thing is the pants aren’t Tim’s either.

What was Tim’s OG Robin design was actually something WB commissioned Neal Adams for Burton’s Batman in order to modernize Robin, in 1988. And then DC loved the design so much they used it for Tim.

>"When WB made the decision to include Dick Grayson in the Batman Movie DC editorial was required to modify the classic costume of the iconic Boy Wonder to better suit the tone of the movie, they called upon several artists to put their own spin on it. It was legendary artist Neal Adams who delivered the winning concept. Robin is Dick Grayson. An Acrobat that calls himself Robin. I was charmed by the Robin costume as a child so I just made it more sensible. Tights, turned the cape inside out and the boots, well Dick is an acrobat so I gave him footwear that allows him to have better grip"

>>153211816
Uh...isn't there an episode where he is in the Nightwing costume?

>>153211981
Yes, Starfire goes to the future in one ep and he's Nightwing.

>>153211816
what's REALLY weird is, in the Red X episode (the one about the second version), doesn't Beast Boy suggest Jason Todd as a possible candidate for the new Red X's identity? despite the fact that Jason Todd shouldn't have been Robin yet?

>>153212036
That's called an easter egg, anon.

>>153211816
But what is his Dick size?

>>153211973
And Jason had some rejected designs with pants back in the mid 80s and adult Dick had pants on Earth Two back in the late 70s/early 80s, so Tim STILL gets Dick (and Jason)'s leftovers lmao.

the literal sole good thing about TTG is that it explicitly confirmed robin is dick

>>153212152
why couldn't they just explicitly say the Robin in this show was Dick anyway? they always kept tip toeing around it even though it was obvious. Larry's name is just Dick Grayson backwards and I think that's the closest we ever get to them ever mentioning his real name. was it just a stylistic choice to make him seem more mysterious the same way they only alluded to and referenced Batman? though, i think the Bat-Embargo also probably played a role in Batman never really being fully mentioned or brought up

>>153212036
According to a writer it being Jason Todd was just a placeholder and if they did reveal who Red X was it would've been someone else.

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>>153212173
>why couldn't they just explicitly say the Robin in this show was Dick anyway?

It wasn't the bat-embargo. It was because the executive producer behind the show, Sam Register, HATED that there was more than one Robin in the comics. Look up old interviews and this comes up.

Sam Register in particular had a lot of strange ideas about the Titans. He was a big fan of the Wolfman/Perez run, but he insisted that the characters had to be all as iconic and simple as possible, so no stuff real names. He was also adamant Batman or any adult superhero could never show up (although I guess he made an exception for the Doom Patrol?).

Anyway, Sam Register is now the current president of Cartoon Network Studios and WB Animation. Honestly props to him for managing to stay and climb the ladder despite all the Warner mergers.

>>153212173
Because the show had no civilian identities, he was just Robin full time

>>153211981
What's more is Larry's real name is Dick Grayson spelled backwards.

>>153211981
OP's post mentions it

>>153212247
What's even more are the is the blink and you miss it mentions of Dick's parents falling and I think there's a blink and you miss it moment of the oath Dick took with Bruce too

>>153211816
> Do Timfags really?
Yes. Always and every time.

>>153211816
Nobody thought he was Tim.
Nobody. It’s even in the show via meta commentary that he’s not Jason or Tim.

We saw Dick in B:TAS go from Robin to Nightwing. We also saw Tim in B:TAS. We all knew it was Dick in Teen Titans.

What the fuck is this thread? Zoomer gaslighting?

>>153212478
Yes a great of them believe that it's just Tim with Dick's name slapped on it, similar to how DCAU Tim was just Jason.

>>153211816
BTAS Dick already had Tim's costume, not sure about the staff

>>153212575
see >>153211973
Tim's suit was originally created for Dick in the Batman movies.

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>>153212478
Most people here are aware TT03 Robin takes most after Dick but OP is probably referring to DC twitter’s latest argument of the week, where some Brazilian Timfag said Dick Robins in other media steal Tim’s appearance and personality.

>>153212971
Only works for the post-80s ones
>>153212478
Then there's one pic where someone drew Damian in the TT03 style and had him as one of Slade's apprentices

>>153211896
Yeah, DC fucked up bigly with how they handled their Teen Titans toon synergy.
They're fucking retarded. They should have done a Tales of the Teen Titans throwback book, like they'd done with Legends of the Dark Knight after 89 Batman.

>>153212478
People on /co/ in '06 were literally arguing that it was Tim Drake.

>>153213244
You still have some people here INSISTING that he's nothing like Dick because the only thing they've read with Dick is his batfamily shit where he's happy and dumb.

>>153212971
You can tell Timfags really think they deserve to live.

>>153212971
My favorite is when they cry about Dick in other adaptations being good with technology when that came with the batfamily modernization package, like Dick isn't going to be stuck with a rotary phone cause he's from the 40s lmao

>>153211816
I don't actively look for fantheories but is there actual screenshots of people who say this is tim drake?
It'd be a pretty bad theory since they make it pretty obvious its Dick, so it just feels like something no one did but OP is assuming.

>>153213579
Used to be a common theory but now Timfags mostly just say it's Dick just stole everything from Tim >>153212971

>>153213321
Yeah why not, currently all Robins are alive and have some sort of protagonism but Tim

>>153211816
DC changed Tim to be more like cartoon Robin and since people don’t read anything before the 00s people don’t know what Tim used to be like and don’t know what Dick used to be like before bateditorial snatched him back.

>>153214414
Tim used to be the nice normal teenager that was good at computers and had two live parents

Now Damian is the only one with parents in the batfamily

>>153214482
Babs has Gordon and I think Duke’s parents are alive still

>>153214414
I enough the irony of the 2000s push completely making Tim irrelevant

>>153214990
Run Duke before they remember you have parents and want to kill them too

>>153215014
>Dickfags in the mid 00s where making blog posts and forum posts about how bad the character sucked and how Tim had basically taken everything from him (being Batman's successor, Titans, his old fucking bedroom)
>20 years later Dick is still trucking along just fine and Tim is completely superfluous and irrelevant
>almost 20 years later Dick can weather through 24 issues of not even being himself in a shit book before his sales reach cancellation levels
>almost 20 years later and Tim can't even handle 10 issues of mediocrity before being cancelled

The turn tables...

>>153215248
Considering what they done to Wally, being put in the tracks to become Batman is the worst thing that could have happened to him.

>>153212240
Why not explore their alter ego lives?

>>153215985
Only Robin really had one.

>>153211816
what lil' timmy gonna do?

>>153216285
Get his Nth name change.

>>153215985
>alien with weird eyes
>green guy
>half robot
Robin and Raven were the only ones that would be able to have an alter ego, and Raven in the comics never had one until Johns gave her one that's plagued her to this day.

>>153211816
>has Dick Grayson's personality from New Teen Titans
Which is literally Tim's personality.

On paper, sure, all the details point to him being Dick, but the vibes he gave off were pure Tim. At which point it's easier to assume he's a version of Tim that just has some things in common with Dick, as opposed to him being Dick, but looking and acting like Tim for some indiscernible reason.

>>153216763
Tim only became more like TT03 Robin with Johns' Teen Titans ie the synergy book.

>>153216668
>Raven in the comics never had one until Johns gave her one that's plagued her to this day.
Was it that bad

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Maybe off topic but I remember when this show was announced to be "anime" style some people tought that it would be based on Adam Warren's Elseworlds Titans

>>153216997
They keep calling her Rachel as if it's her actual name and not a fake identity she created to attend high school for some reason

Layman and Brombal from a couple interviews put out a vibe that Titans is still a very editorial driven book so it's probably some dumbass editor who keeps making the writers call her that

>>153215985
Because Register felt that sort of thing was typical in superhero cartoons and wanted to make something against the grain. The Titans in the initial final pitch are basically cartoony cartoon characters. They’re just superheroes not as what they are, not an alter ego , basically full time

>>153217504
DC editors aren’t actual comic readers themselves, they probably saw that info in a wiki and decided it’s important that she’s called Rachel

>>153217504
>>153217595
If I had a nickel if DC randomly changed two popular heroes' actual names to something completely random I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice in the last 3-4 years with Raven and Peeg.

>>153217668
There's also Ice vs Icemaiden

>>153215248
I always think back to a random blog post that was celebrating literally every thing we now recognize as destroying Tim's character long-term. Ending Young Justice so Tim could inherit the Teen Titans legacy. Tim's dead dad making him a more authentic Robin, and bringing him closer to Bruce as a son. Tim's mid-00s BatGod Junior phase. Fucking crowing.

I can't find it anymore, lost to the seas of time, but here's another random blog post from 20 years ago about how DC had bungled Nightwing. The comments from '06 glazing Tim, while the author doesn't mention him once, are very telling.
https://absorbascon.blogspot.com/2006/04/problem-with-nightwing-is-nightwing.html

Then compare that to one from 5 years ago about Tim's slow slide to irrelevance, starting with Identity Crisis.
https://spencerirwin.substack.com/p/the-identity-crisis-of-tim-drake

It's both sad and funny, really.

>>153217668
>>153217683
It’s not a hero( I guess she is considered one now), but Pre-crisis Poison Ivy had an entirely different identity, Lilian Rose

>>153217832
Hindsight is 20/20, most of it did seem like an upgrade at the time. Tim's dad was a pretty realistic neglectful father so a lot of fans didn't care about him or even like him, and Teen Titans had a cartoon coming out and was the bigger brand, making it seem like a step up. Steph and Kon though of course had a lot of outcry but a lot of it didn't focus on how it affected Tim and Tim becoming a sad sack while Dick stopped being a sad sack had a lot of detractors from old fans. But for the most part a lot of fans brought in by Johns TT liked how Tim was and some older fans thought he would get over it eventually especially with how DC pushed Tim as Batman's successor before Damian showed up.

>>153211816
>becomes Nightwing in the time jump episode
>flashback showed two circus performers falling to their deaths
I mean it's right there

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>>153217041
>some people tought that it would be based on Adam Warren's Elseworlds Titans
Some of the show own animators tought that too

>>153212478
to be fair things started to not make sense the more the dcau took off. Stuff like batman telling static robin was with the Titans when nightwing was already a thing. DCAU has a a couple of concepts that weren't really thought out or dropped or have continuity errors

>>153217041
>>153218769
>Witchie-Poo
>looks Indian
>has Indian name (Renuka)
Adam Warren really predict the future

>>153213220
>>153211896
>Yeah, DC fucked up bigly with how they handled their Teen Titans toon synergy.

We are talking about Dan 'I wanted to kill Nightwing/Dick because he ages Batman' Didio here. You have to understand DC was basically held hostage by that man-child.

>>153212231
>He was also adamant Batman or any adult superhero could never show up (although I guess he made an exception for the Doom Patrol?).
Doom Patrol is only relevant as a origin story for Beast Boy

>>153212478
Anon this was off the heels of the DCAU giving Kyle Hal’s backstory, or Tim with Jason’s for that matter
The real issue came from how Batman name dropped the Titans when Static asked where Robin was. This made some people wonder if it was meant to be DCAU, even with the style difference. All the DC shows up until then since BTAS had all been in the same continuity so the idea of a new DC show being an unrelated continuity was unheard of.
You can probably still see discussion of this in the Toon Zone forums.

>>153211816
Didn't realise anyone thought he was Tim until I saw this thread

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>>153211816
It’s really bold of Timfags to whine about Dick “stealing” from Tim considering Tim has stolen so much from Dick (and Jason) over the years.

>Tim stole Dick's intelligence to justify his existence
>stole Jason's entire personality in the DCAU
>stole Dick's team from him in new 52 (Tim's Titans was considered the first)
>took two of Dick's identities (Robin, Red Robin)
>had his Unternet outfit be just red Nightwing
>And saddest of all, stealing part of Dick's lore to justify Tim becoming Robin for a third time after having two flop identities

>>153220107
nobody gives a shit nor cares about any of the post-flashpoint Tim stuff

>>153211816
Glen Murakami didn't help things by playing coy and being all "It doesn't matter who Robin is, kids don't care about that!".
But kids who had comics passed down to them along with the older man children did, and quickly gave the 03 staff a lesson in how invested they were.

>>153220107
As a Timfag I didn’t for any of those. I just want the Tim and Dick of the 90s back.

>>153212036
That was a storyboard artist's joke that slipped in, according to Ben Jones.

Jones later said Murakami did come up with an idea for Red X's identity, but he wasn't at place to say it. Murakami supposedly leaked to ToonZone it was Jason, but Bill Walko (infamous TitansTower guy who is known to hate Jason) said that wasn't a finalized writing decision.
If another anon is right, Jones deleted his twt so if it was him that said it it's gone now, Jason was just a placeholder identity. Murakami did have the mentality that Jason was a wicked sort of Robin and he wanted Red X to be a "bad Robin" sort, but he likely wouldn't have fully committed to the bit. Probably saw the fans clamoring and jokingly figured, sure why not, but not like they'd really unmask him.

>>153212126
The Don Newton (RIP) suit Jason had in his first few Pre-Crisis stories was a proposed Robin redesign, yes. The marketing dept. of DC rejected that, and Jason dying his hair in-story was to also make him conform to the proper image of Robin for merchandise. The blond/red hair just was pushing things.

>>153212231
Sam Register was the guy who rejected Peter David's more DCU-centric TT pitch and got Murakami and Slack to retool it.

It was probably a mix of licensing issues plus the "keep it simple, stupid, kids don't care about that" mentality.

>>153217874
That was a goof by Gerry Conway, who named her Pamela Isley to start.

>>153211816
Why do Dickfags create scenarios in their heads to seethe at?

>>153220676
They know no one cares about Joker's Daughter or Flamebird and their essays of how they traumatized Dickiebird long before the rooftop rape, so they have to bait the Timfags.

>>153220676
Yeah this thread feels like some dude got really mad about what some other dude 20 years ago said and is trying to smugly rub it in their face...20 years later.

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>>153220947
this is a Bette board motherfucker

>>153222933
Avayarising gonna get your kneecaps, Bette. Count your days.

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>>153211816
Everybody loves dick

>>153223317
I always find it amazing that the dickfire wedding was unironically one of the most anticipated events in DC history and it got shitcanned at the 11th hour after fierce behind the scenes battling

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it would be a shame if the official teen titans go fla rigs leaked
the teen titans go fla rigs for all the main characters:
https://litter.catbox.moe/am3mze.fla

>>153218769
i read that as prolapse lass

>>153223890
Adam Warren give some funny names like Captain Thug

>>153223373
The bateditorial didnt want dick marrying a fucking alien

>>153223991
It is really funny considering what they did to Jason, or the whole "give Robin aids".

>>153223991
felt more like sour grapes than anything but in general what's the point of having these vast intermingling worlds if you don't let them breathe. Dick in particular was perfect for such a thing given his background and greater relationships within DC. If anything you'd think there would be more of a fight over the "right" alien/amazon/etc

>>153224016
The killing of Jason and crippling Babsgirl in 1988 was to make the comics "darker" for the 89 movie, at least is what I think

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>>153211816
Nothing new.

>>153224016
>Robin aids
WHAT?

>>153223373
Early 90s Titans was a mess of plots, does anyone remember Team Titans book, all forgetable characters

>>153224123
They just hated Robin, and Batgirl crippling wasn't meant to be in continuity.

>>153224147
Once DC did an internal vote to see to witg who they would do an aids story with, one writer filled the ballot with Robin.

>>153224594
the titans have always been garbage outside of like 3 arcs but despite that it had one of the most popular ships in the industry somehow. Capeshit is often weird

>>153213723
I was talking about Timfags, not Tim.

>>153224880
The begining of the Perez Wolfmam run and the Johns run?

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>>153224594
>Team Titans book, all forgetable characters
There is even a Morbius wannabe

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>>153224933
Perez/Wolfman up to a point but I did not care for the Johns run. It kinda had some decent ideas but it completely butchered the YJ kids trying to shove them into particular holes and the junior JL thing also rubbed me the wrong way

>>153225002
My favorite part was Gar becoming animal man.

>>153224738
It was Starlin who pushed for Jason to get AIDS by stuffing the ballot. Jimmy Olsen was the other character who got pushed by the other staffers. Editors realized people were taking it for a gag and dropped it.

>>153225437
AIDS was gay decease in the 80s, its like saying the character is homosexual

>>153225002
>YJ kids
When YJ ended I knew DC was over

>>153211816
>>153220107
Dick stole the team founded as well as his best friend from him in YJ but you're crying because one or two people think the TT Robin is Tim or Tim has Dick's personality im comics hardly anyone reads? Nothing that Tim "stole" from Dick even come close to what Dick took from Tim.

And Dick stole the Nightwing identity from Superman.

>>153211816
Timfags were powertripping hard during the 2000's. Loeb had Batman call him 'the detective' and dc was doing the whole Batman jr shit. Then Morrison snached his chain with Dickbats and the nu52 buried him. Tragic.

>>153226820
>Then Morrison snached his chain with Dickbat
The biggest blow to Tim was Damien becoming Robin

>>153227043
>timfag cope
Tim was literally at his peak post Damian. RR was the undiluted timwank. Even if that were true Tim would've bounced back by now considering Damian was:
>Dead for half of the new 52
>Not present for Batman and B&R Eternal
>Basically irrelevant to rebirth Batman while Tim had 'Tech and Tynion glaze
>Blamed for Alfreds death
>Set up by didio to be the big bad to his new Batman
>Doesn't even get an appearance in the main Batman book for years.
And that's just Damian. You write a whole essay on how fucked the other batfam members are. While Tim has been given to: Tynion, Bendis, Zdarsky and Fraction who all think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
New 52, batman jr, and being fagged killed Tim.

>>153220676
>>153222910
No, OP is likely a twitterfag because batfamily twitter has been discussing Dick vs Tim after a Brazilian Timfag said Dick in media adaptations are just Tim and other Timfags agreed. >>153212971

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I like Dick and Tim. Jason is pure schizo chaos depending on who's writing him and what kind of story. I think Damian only works in certain dynamics and is good in those but with Bruce he's the least robiny robin to ever robin so he's weird even though he's still interesting. I'd say that a lot of modern Robin stuff comes from Tim's time but I don't think it's really inherent to his traits but more to do with him being the Robin when they were modernizing the concept as a whole. That said taking the staff too is a bit much because Dick/Jason both didn't need it and it's something does speak to Tim's traits

>>153228355
>a lot of modern Robin stuff comes from Tim's time
tim drake did not invent pants

>>153224138
Except that outfit ain’t Tim’s either
It was created for Dick in case he showed up in Burton’s Batman movies.
>>153211973

>>153226820
>timfags
anon most pre-existing Timfags were bemoaning the loss of his father, Steph, YJ being ditched for TT, ditching his supporting cast and losing his more introspective, self-doubting personality.
The only Timfans that like Batman Jr Tim are those who started with Hush and Teen Titans 03.

Tim fans from the 90s to the mid 00s were ultra arrogant. They viewed him as being the greatest Robin ever, Batman's true heir, smarter and a better detective than anyone, and a better leader. It all came tumbling down once he didn't have the Robin identity to support him anymore.

>>153228757
One of the more egregious parts to them trying to throw Tim up was them retconning Jason to have always been a terrible person and attempting to retcon Dick as having seen Robin as nothing from a game/something he didn’t take serious. The latter didn’t stick thank god, but poor Jason.

>>153215985
because its a really really silly show. Its awesome when it has serious plots but like it is not any kind of representation of a dc continuity

>>153218769
>Captain Thug

No way he slipped that in there.

>>153228989
Also the indian girl id "witchie-poo"

>>153217041
>"superheroes suck"
Surprisingly cynical comic. I feel like witch girls know it all attitude was ripe for a "hope and whimsy" end.

>>153229626
After so much capeshit in the last 10 years or more, I agree

>>153229723
>2016 was a decade ago
Damn.

I mean if you're going to spell out all the genre clichés why not just commit? Couldn't batman pull something out of his ass? Or were titans already dropping like flies by '97?

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DC should let Tim himself this time

>>153212971
why are brazilians consistently the worst parts of a fanbase

>>153227327
>And that's just Damian. You write a whole essay on how fucked the other batfam members are. While Tim has been given to: Tynion, Bendis, Zdarsky and Fraction who all think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Yeah. Also add Scott Snyder who I don't think likes Tim that much but he doesn't like Damian because it reminds him of his own son. So he never writes him.

The only current big DC writer who prefers Damian over Tim is Williamson.

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>>153224991
>rape dick
>get book
Did Tarantula get one too?

>>153219510
Well, Batman would have. That's clearly a strategy that would also work on Clayface, a consistent batman opponent.

>>153231998
She got an arc on birds of prey

>>153231945
Damian comics are Eisner material compared to Tim's comics

>>153232060
Not Birds of Prey but Secret Six. She died at the end of the arc.

>>153212231
>he insisted that the characters had to be all as iconic and simple as possible, so no stuff real names
But they did get sneaked in over time. BB and Starfire are outright called Garfield and Koriand'r by close family, and Cyborg uses his last name Stone as his alias when infiltrating HIVE. Raven had no other name at the time, and Robin's already well-proven to be Dick in this thread.

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>>153233039
I liked Tarantula

>>153234256
She definitely is more interesting than any batfamily characters post-Infinity Crisis

>>153231998
Mirage was then raped and impregnated by a Nightwing impostor

>>153234326
Why so much rape?