ITT: lost technology
>>153234729This is a cope some random fucko on YouTube could probably make a five minute KoTH animation and make it the way it was before.
>>153234729
>>153234729This is called a lie
>pencils and pens just sknt exist anymoreWhatever he thinks is gone can be replicated perfectly with digital tools. They just prefer to use the digital tools that make animation cheaper(looking). Because the digital tools that faithfully replicate the analog look require the same amount of labor.
>>153234729They don't have cheap Korean studios willing to use the old tools for the old price.
>>153234729Translation: there is no way to recreate the original's animation style without making an investment in infrastructure. We do not have enough shows to justify the expenditure.
Is he implying that pencils and paper don't exist anymore?
>>153234729What he really means is the pipeline infrastructure doesnt exist anymore because the industry has moved nearly every aspect of the animation process to north korean slaves. Even if he wanted to do it the old way, theyd probably run out of budget on episode 3 because without traditional TV ad revenue theres no money to go around
>>153234729>Well Hank, the tools don't exist anymore. Things have changed. Now go toss this in the dumpster behind Thatherton's
>>153235157Japan does it all the time. It's literally just that the Korean animators they hire are getting too expensive and they want to make shit as cheaply as possible.
>>153234729i meet multiple tools a day on this site wtf
>>153235243I assume is the light tables and photo tables they were special tables with layers to draw and take the pictures with depth
>>153235157>>153235198If you look at the full quote he flat out admits they can't do it AT THE COST it would take, not necessarily that it is actually impossible.>“I get it, and I get why people who want to revisit the show may be taken aback a little bit. The new animation style is all digital now, but the truth of the matter is, it is impossible to do the show now the way it was done then. The hand-drawn animation, the water colors, those don’t exist anymore. If they exist, they certainly don’t exist at a cost where you can do a TV show. So it has to be updated, and so we updated it with the current style and makeup of animation that animated shows do."He just kind of worded it poorly and of course clickbait headlines gonna clickbait. At the end of the day the showrunner can't dictate the budget and has to make due with what he can.
>>153234729>lost technologyskill issue
>>153235157>>153234729Did they forget that "To Sirloin with Love" was animated digitally?
Whenever you hear "We lost the technology" it's really "We lost the supply chain" but one of them is more useful for pathological alarmists
>>153234729>My lord, after a five hundred year campaign and a billion casualties, we have at last recovered the STC for making King of the Hill episodes. Butonly seasons 3, 7, and 9.
Enshittification. We could make good stuff but that would cost money which is better spent on Israel.
>>153234729Same thing happened in anime decades ago. to put it less retardedly: the new guys can't learn from the old guys because the old guys never learned how to do digital animationIn order for a technique to be preserved, Og has to try out his tried-and-true ash/blood-on-cave-wall techniques with this new 'paint' thing Magog made out of bear fat and ground up rocks. THEN Og can teach Magog how best to 'paint' with his new invention.If Magog come along and replace Og entirely, technique lost.>>153235157it's not even 1% as much labor. imagine how long it took waiting for the paint to dry, alone.
>>153235385Over and over again I keep hearing our animation sucks now because it's too expensive to make it not suck. Well no more, if you guys elect me president of united states I promise to move the entire military budget into funding western cartoons. Trillions of dollars will be used to make animation great again!
>>153235492It would require giving jobs to White men and that's unacceptable for Hollywood.>>153235560>Muh IsraelThat's not what this is about at all, quit being a disingenuous faggot. Israel isn't the reason why companies refuse to hire White men.
>>153235385>If you look at the full quote he flat out admits they can't do it AT THE COST it would takeI am aware. I was making a sincere "translation", not some gotcha post.That said, this anon >>153235157 makes a good point. It can be done digitally. It just requires - and I know this term comes with baggage - first principles thinking. They don't need to replicate the old ways. They just need to put some effort into replicating the results using modern methods. It's possible, it just still takes effort, and what the industry really needs is a willingness to invest in manpower and brainpower.
>>153235560>Blaming foreign jews on problems created by domestic jews oy vey
>>153235260>>153235578It’s loss in both pipeline and training/development, these are easy institutions to degrade when taken for granted and expensive to rebuild. The real problem with the business controlling the purse strings is that it will never be possible to plead for the necessary minimum investment to improve quality because it comes at a cost and any cost is too much to ask for. Animation was never going to be saved by its executioners.
>>153235297Computers
>>153234729What that actually means "It will take us a minute longer and dollar more to recreate the old look, so fuck you, eat this soulless-looking slop instead."
I have puppet-rigged fatigue.
>>153235529KEK. 10/10
>>153234729Is there even a consequence for streaming service shows being bad? Does someone look at the internal numbers to make business decisions? Doesn't seem like it in the past 10 years or so.
>>153235529Nice
>>153234729I know some people can reproduce that cel animated look, but has anyone made a functional pipeline for making it easily?
>>153237152No and you're a retard for even asking that question. How fucking dumb can you be to even pose a question like that to an industry vet like The JudgeGod I hate this shithole of a board.
>>153237152Yes, bit it's prompting AI to do it. Frame by frame takes all the time no matter what you try to streamline it.
It's kind of amazing how Americans just basically trashed their animation technology that they worked 75 years to build and perfect because Walt Disney told everyone 2D is over and the future was CGI.
>>153235492Those are the same thing as far as you should be concerned. Once the infrastructure is gone, it isn't too long until the knowledge is gone. It can be rediscovered and recreated with time and money, but the point is it becomes so prohibitive to do so that it may as well be lost technology.
>>153234729you could probably use an AI filter to replicate cell shading
The tools don't exist anymore because we threw them out. We did that because our new tools are better and there's no reason to go back to the old ones. They don't exist anymore because nobody actually wants to use them, so nobody makes them anymore.Why is this so hard for animation autists to understand that they're the only ones that give a damn about the "cell-animated look"?
So that's why new Beavis and Butthead looks like bootleg Archer now
>>153238157Walt Disney's been dead for about sixty years now, he'd probably be horrified at the state of 2D animation these days.
>>153235385>have the computers>have the best tablets on the market>have the best animation software in the industry >backed by Disney >too expensive to hand-draw frames
>>153234729Bull. Shit. They TOTALLY could've made the new King of the Hill at least match the look of the later HD seasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGMCWYQewyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmuoFRg2fWM They don't have the "tools"? Pssh, more like they don't have the time or budget thanks to Disney's greedy mitts
>>153235385What he most likely means by "don't exist anymore" is specifically industry standard paper, cels, ink, and photography machines used in television animation in the 90s/00s. It would probably be prohibitively expensive to either track down or make those tools from scratch just to make a 10 episode, streaming only continuation of a show not central to its company's major money-making projects. This may shock you, but FOX and Judge didn't just keep their animation offices mothballed someplace in the hopes of doing another season decades later.It's like the "NASA must being lying when they say the tech to go to the moon isn't there anymore" argument. Grumman, Douglas Aircraft, and North American Aviation don't fucking exist anymore, and Boeing most certainly doesn't have the specific machines they use to manufacture their third of the Saturn V rocket just sitting in storage someplace. It would be insanely expensive to recreate all of that just to have a 60s era space craft.
If it really was all about there not being enough money then the show should have just stayed dead.
The cuphead devs did it and it turned out great. They have no excuses.
>>153235385I can buy watercolors for 10 buck off Amazon...
this is an annoying way for him to address controversy with the show. the main issue with the way the new show looks isn't physically drawn analog minutia, it's extremely cheap digital clipart rigging. if the animators drew individual frames with digital tablets the controversy would be greatly muted.
>>153242579Cuphead took like 7 years to make and can be beaten in just a few hours, I don't think that's a very fair comparison.
>>153235529A Helm Memory Core would be less retarded than that and more expensive and sought out, thanks Grayson...
>>153242579>The cuphead devs did it and it turned out great.Did it? I think this is the first time I've heard someone mention that show since it was released
>>153242579Cuphead (the game not the show) still didn't do the paint traditionally
>>153242677He's talking about the game, the show used typical modern cartoon animation.
>>153234778fucking andrew dobson of all people did ithttps://youtu.be/DSoiI55fG-M
>>153242618He understood. #1 rule of animation interviews, if the answer is “my boss is cheap”, pivot to minutiae instead.
>>153242653>Cuphead took like 7 years to make and can be beaten in just a few hoursYes, which is probably a major reason they made the game harder than most. If most people could beat every boss on the first try they'd fly through the game super quick. They want you to play through the boss battles multiple times to learn the patterns so you're not blazing through all the animation they spent so much time on and making the game short.
Some of the shots in the reboot were so distractingly bad I had to rewind and pause just to take it all in.
>>153243232Pretty sure blurring the background a bit to make it out of focus wouldn't cost anything.
>>153243678I was more concerned about the complete lack of depth. Everything just looks like flat paper assets layered on top of each other.Here's a bonus flat controller and 4D cereal.
>>153234729Has someone made a digital pipeline to replicate the traditional cel animation look? I know people have done it on a small scale but it's a lot of trial and error and brute forcing.
>>153243892I read an article about that years ago but I lost the link. It is definitely possible.
Hill
>>153234729the "tools" are there they are just too expensive now
>>153243818God, how do you fuck up THIS badly?
>>153243892Nope, and it probably won't happen.So far it seems like only vidya animators, randos on Youtube, and a small few anime animators can really capture the look of traditional cel animation digitally.
>>153234729The tools are the animators with the knowledge and skill are gone
they just don't want to. The clean digital look is cheaper, and a majority of people actually think it looks better.>I didn't buy no 4K TV to watch something that looks like it was made in the 90's!
It's not /co/ related. But whenever I give an example of "lost technology" in the US, I use the example of freefall bowling pinsetters. A lot of bowling centers just can't maintain freefall bowling pinsetters because of a decline in bowling popularity, no mechanics to maintain these pinsetters, and a lack of parts. So the bowling centers have to switch to string pinsetters- which most people think provides a worse experience. Freefall bowling pinsetters have existed since the 50s, and we can't figure out how to keep them running today. I'm currently watching the Tarzan animated series. And it's very impressive what was done back then. The show is really beautiful with the animation, the hand drawn jungle scenes, and the shadow effects of the jungle foliage. I doubt something similar could be re-created today.It's not /co/ related. But whenever I give an example of "lost technology" in the US, I use the example of freefall bowling pinsetters. A lot of bowling centers just can't maintain freefall bowling pinsetters because of a decline in bowling popularity, no mechanics to maintain these pinsetters, and a lack of parts. So the bowling centers have to switch to string pinsetters- which most people think provides a worse experience. I'm currently watching the Tarzan animated series. And it's very impressive what was done back then. The show is really beautiful with the animation, the hand drawn jungle scenes, and the shadow effects of the jungle foliage. I doubt something similar could be re-created today.
>>153243818>>153243818shit, that actually explains allot. This whole time I knew it felt cheap but I couldnt really narrow it down till now
>>153235529kek
>>153246588you accidently hit contrl V twice on your twitter post faggot
>>153246588>I doubt something similar could be re-created today.it can absolutely be recreated today, they would just have to pay for it.
>>153234729dear conga line of cartoon reboot staff who are going to try to claim this is why their shows look like dogshit:we know cel animation isn't possible anymore, that isn't what we're complaining about. we're complaining that your digital ink and paint show looks 10x shittier than it did in 2010 when it already didn't use cel animation.shows the network respects like spongebob, family guy, adventure time, etc. get by fine without using stomach-turning cheap ugly flash motion tweens for everything. tell your boss to give you a higher budget so your show doesn't look like shit.
>>153247412The problem is, corpos don't want to unless it's going to print money automatically.
>>153234729He's not lying. The technology is for the most part dead, & not because there aren't people who can't recreate it, but because most of the people who used to work in cel animation are mostly dead. Disney used to have departments dedicated just to inking & painting alone during the 80s while working on Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Digital soon replaced those departments, made the animation pipeline process cheaper & easier. Even Japan took the digitalpill a long time ago during the 2000s while working Naruto. They can also easily imitate classic cel animation with CGI as seen in the Chip & Dale movie. Only 2 studios exist that still use classic cel animation. For reference, here's some videos to back up my statementshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ORkIrHUbghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFzavaJ4Wa0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il8bP4ZS4Vchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdzjqOuO_Ig
>>153248834Classic cel animation is too expensive. It's cheaper to recreate it in CGI now.
>>153243892Japan
>>153242495>just to make a 10 episode7 seasons were ordered and they're already working on S15
They should have got Titmouse to do the animation.The new Beavis and Butthead episodes look way better.
>>153242721I'm pretty sure the 90s didn't have VHS filters when those cartoons were on live TV. VHS filters weren't a thing until people uploaded their VHS recordings on the Internet, & we all know how shit quality those VHS recordings were. Take away the silly VHS filter if you want to relive the experience of the 90s as it was seen on TV.
>>153234729Bull crap! In reality, they just can't afford to invest better animation from expensive studios.
>>153234729Translation; We're too fucking lazy.
>>153249263That's not exactly a high bar to clear.
>>153243892It's getting there, but it is still early days.
>>153234729That's odd my Bullshit Detector is going crazy
>>153242721>28 seconds: using 2 separate backgrounds instead of having the secret panel be on an animated cell>31 seconds: background elements moving for the stone doors to shut behind Link, but the dust effect is cel animatedI think it looks really great, but it doesn't seem like it's period accurate. Also the direct comparison between the Manual Art and the Animation (for the trader specifically) makes it obvious how much his personal style doesn't measure up to the style of whichever illustrator at Nintendo, but it really is only noticeable then.Pretty decent all around.
>>153250151>This japanese shit is terrible!>>Do not worry my friend, we have indian shit to satisfy your hunger.Kill yourself.
>>153245603>>153243892It will always be small scale and even then your brain will notice and tell you something is wrong. Not until we get actual AI and not LLMs that the average retard thinks is "AI from sci-fi, just not as good".>>153243818>>153247207>n-no, you don't understand, we lost the technology that let us not be lazy and cheap!
>>153250151You.Kill yourself and rid us if your stupidity now.
>>153250310>if your stupiditybro you're making us look bad
>>153243818>Connies handAhhhh
>>153249263No because then based Coelasquid wouldn't have gotten to direct
>>153234729this is very obviously correct if you're not a midwit btw. even if you did everything the exact same way with the same materials and tools, it still wouldn't look the same because it's not the same people in the same environment. this is LITERALLY on the same level as the niglet teenager who slapped someone on public transit being asked what he thinks it would be like if he didn't eat breakfast that day. you either have the divine spark or you don't.
>>153240809>>153242495They don't even do in-betweens. 2D animation was ruined by unions over reaching and asian governments fully subsidizing animation studios. Basically made competeting against them impossible in America.
Speaking of nuKOTH, what was up with that episode ending where Peggy and Hank are spiraling regarding their inability to keep up with the times, only for for them to come to their senses because... they changed the "offensive" girl scout cookie name?They were passing out this year's girl scout cookies at work and they are still called Samoas. Were the writers just projecting their own highly specific ideals onto the show?
>>153238157And he was right 3d movies are making more money than ever can't wait for kpop demon hunters 2-12
>>153251567>Were the writers just projecting their own highly specific ideals onto the show?Yes. It's Disney. Shit happens. Same thing with the voices.
>>153243892You can simulate cel animation in 3D software like Blender and Maya.
>>153251567Samoas being tiny and awful now ties beautifully into the theme of this thread Nothing will be spared from enshittening
>>153234729>Hank when I tell him propane will be a lost technology in the future
>>153250280AI will never be able to replicate that look because AI will always just be glorified LLMs since no one knows how to actually develop or improve AI beyond "just throw more compute at it bro, trust me, we'll totally hit AGI, it's like magic!"
>>153251567Names (and certain cookies) are regional with Girl Scouts. Also, the idea was that, even with all the weird changes and annoyances of modern life, it was still the same old Arlen they were used to underneath. Calling a Girl Scout Cookie something different when its still the same damn cookie and the Scouts are still nice little girls is genuinely no big deal. Remember, the OTHER part of the scene was a guy still calling them Samaos, not being bothered by being corrected, chatting up Hank about the saw he bought, Hank sharing a cookie, and the offering to help him get a discount on the saw. THAT'S the kind of Arlen Hank is used to.Believe it or not, Hank's whole thing is being polite and nice to people because that's just the right thing to do.
>>153246285Did you know you can easily intimidated classic cel animation by applying filters & using the right color palette? There's really no need to go back to the actual traditional methods when the tools are already there in your digital workstation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLRGr_DScRUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkBk5jtOcT0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqRqjeIyjhA
>>153252383>AI will never be able to replicate that lookDon't count on it. The AI is improving every year & it's getting better at making less mistakes. AI can already do deep fakes in god tier level.
