Zeurel is so desperate he’s forcing gooseworx to shill out his slop
If people still don’t bother watching your cartoon after all the aggressive shilling, then maybe they just aren’t interested.
>>153299255Kill off Shrike and the fat walrus then make Kara (my beloved failure) the main character and maybe I'll consider it.
>>153299255What's worse is that no one gave a shit about the reference. The fandom exclusively focused on the first word as validation for their ship and threw out the rest of the sentence. Goose knew posting about a popular ship would gather more eyes and it still flopped. If the creator of Digital Circus can't even convince Glitch to stop rejecting MW as part of their partner program, then why the fuck should anyone else give a damn about the show?
>>153299255How much longer can zeurel sink money into this?NGL though, I'd kill to get half of his viewership
>>153299255This is sad because this is like the third time Goose has tried to help Zeurel and it never fucking works. Monkey Wrench really is that uninteresting I predict ep 6 will fail to break 300k views
>>153299516>What's worse is that no one gave a shit about the reference.What reference?
How pathetic. Get your own audience, loser.
>>153299681Sooner or later, zeurel will have to accept that he needs to scale back. Do these episodes REALLY need to be 30 mins?
So... What is Monkey Wrench about?
>>153300458Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys ripoff.Which itself was riding off of the often forgotten Planet of the Apes fad.
>>153300502Planet of the Apes was a '70s thing. Captain Simian is decades too late.
>>153300458Ragtag losers IN SPACE trying to get rich as mercanaries, always one step from ruin and frequently getting in over their heads (Cowboy Bebop but monkies).The base premise is fine but it's somehow not very interesting.
>>153299795The direct reference to MW. Even after Goose clarified in another tweet to go watch it, no one cared. >>153299681>SUPPORT INDIE ANIMATIONThis mindset fascinates me because there's this mentality that he thinks he's owed an audience simply because it's indie. You're not getting support because it's not appealing to millions. >>153299866Some of these indie works think 30 min is the key to success and want all their ideas to shine. The problem is they don't evaluate if those 30 min are a slog to watch. If people click off the video early on, YouTube will stop recommending it.
Space King is a space action/comedy indie cartoon that's pretty successful so it's not like the genre is impossible
>>153300458>>153300575At which point you realize that your show has no mass appeal?And Im not talking about base premise, but about character design. The rest of Glitch stuff is going in the way of japan, and realizing that they need to appeal to waifufag to at least be mentioned and discussed online.
>>153300707The issue is >>153300711What is even the demographic for this? It looks like a forgetaful Fox Kids cartoon from the early 00s that would have 2 seasons then be over, that people would mention on "do you remember this" threads. That sort of show works better as a non serialized cable tv, not as a youtube miniserie. Circus know its audience - autistic kids that watch theory videos andd mascot horror fans, and they are shameless with "fanservice" knowing that putting characters into certain costumes will generate tons of artwork and merchandising.
>>153299866It also woefully under utilizes youtube shorts.He's trying to run the show like its on a cable network. But its not. Its on youtube.
>>153300781>>153300815Monkey Wrench has a myriad of flaws but this is the most faggocious type of criticism that comes from the brain of a soulless marketing drone.>We need to target "X" demographic between ages "M" and "N"Most of the best media isn't anything that targets any specific demo, it's just something that the creator wants to make. Things that pander to specific demo are typically trite and prosaic.e
>>153299255>white man voiced latinx coded characteryikes! that's the first issue>your two lead male protagonist aren't appealing, not even to the bara crowdsure, make all those waifubait characters but the show has to be carried by your two forgetful protagonist>what is it about?first episode and can't get hooked because what plot is there to pull us back?
>>153300575>Cowboy Bebop but monkies)what monkeys? none of them are monkeys
>>153300974>this is the most faggocious type of criticism that comes from the brain of a soulless marketing drone.Welcome to the real world sucker, one thing is when you are doing it in your free time, the other is when you sink sevetal thousand dollars on it and has many jobs on the line. Everything in this life is about finding BALANCE. >Most of the best media isn't anything that targets any specific demoMost of the best media usually targets a demo, and almost all media that is a success does. A good producer has the job to tell the creator tht some of his ideas are shit, and that in the end he is selling a product. >it's just something that the creator wants to make. Things that pander to specific demo are typically trite and prosaic.eA lot of modern media is ironically shit becuse creators forgot that they have to do things that other people enjoy, not only them.
>>153301253
>>153300974Solely focusing on "what does x demographic find most appealing so I can hammer it for money" is soulless bean counter thinking, but you're delusional if you think creators don't consider who their stories are gonna appeal to and try to at least play into it.
>>153300974I didn't say anything about targetting a demographic.I just don't understand how he hasn't made more shorts for people to see when they're scrolling through shorts. Its not even costing him money, he's just picking out enjoyable snippets of the content he's already made.Glitch has shorts that have millions of views. Its just free attention from viewers you might not have gotten via longform content. If only 1% of those people actually go to your full works, its still 1% more then what you get by doing nothing for shorts.Zeurel is just painfully living in the past.
>>153301654Fair
>>153299255Man that's sad, having grown up with the guys work, only to see him reduced to this state.
>>153299255There's recently a talk about how all glitch shows have females as the lead. And I think there's some merit to that. I bet if Shrike was a hot chick it would have gotten some attention.
He needs to totally scrap the leads. The only character I ever see with any positivity is the lizard.
Monkey who?
>>153302102Yeah people can dissect Monkey Wrench all day but the worst part is seeing Zeurel's soul gradually leave his body. A hundred years of animation experience just to plead for attention on fucking twitter it's unbelievable
>>153302140There is a hot protag chick but she won't show up until episode 6. And that's his fatal flaw, the show is in too deep that its too late for it to get Circus level of fame. Not to mention he nuked his original uploads on his larger channel and made a new dedicated channel from scratch. It's a series of bad decisions that kneecapped his project, which is nuts because you'd think someone that's been around the Internet this long knows how this stuff works.>>153300707Space King has a 40k audience built into it and Flashgitz posted the series on their channel with millions of followers instead of starting a new one.
>>153302240It's always painful to see someone who you had respect for just completely beef it when he stands on stage.
>>153300711These main characters have been his favorite OCs for the past 20 years. He entered them into OC Tournaments back on Deviantart. Now he's finally funded an indie series and can bring his precious creations to a wider audience, and no one's interested. It's a hard pill to swallow.
>>153299255Basically every character that shows up on screen in this is offensively ugly, I'm not sure how i didn't hear of this before, considering i like to occasionally keep up on this kind of stuff. Bleak viewership, not marketable whatsoever for merchandising. I'm not shocked this isn't popular, people like their blorbos waifus and husbandos.
>>153302797seriously, there isn't more to discuss other than this. the character designs are hideous on top of a really bland premise.
>>153300974>Most of the best media isn't anything that targets any specific demoBut they do, nobody would give money to a creator and say, "Take this money and do whatever you want." That's not how it works.
>>153302797It could probably get away with ugly characters if it was funny.
>>153302797If that's so he should lean into it more
>>153299681>4000 for voice work>8000 for music>3000 sound designIs that a normal amount to pay for an indie episode?
>>153299255>child>come out>parents aren’t supportiveDoes goose support kids being groomed into trans and lgbt?
>>153302900Or cool.They're neither Funny or Cool.
>>153302241>posted the series on their channel with millions of followers instead of starting a new oneI always wonder if nobody told him that posting on a completely new channel was a bad idea. He even deleted the original upload with over a million views.
>>153302797>Basically every character that shows up on screen in this is offensively uglyOkay, I just watched the first few minutes of the first episode.God, there's something weird about the designs. I don't know if they're ugly, but they look like they were taken from an advertisement.
>>153302892>nobody would give money to a creator and say, "Take this money and do whatever you want."
>>153302917It all really depends on who you're hiring. Voice work definitely varies heavily (I work with some pretty quality VAs who were pretty much doing pro bono service for me until I insisted on paying). That said, Zeurel's getting fucking scammed on the voice cost, because aside from Shrike, none of the VAs are above 80s OVA dub tier.
>>153303498Venture Bros has a targeted audience tho.
>>153303533How do you find VAs anyway?
>>153303832No, it's just crammed with references to shit that Publick and Hammer find cool. That may appeal more to a certain demographic than another, but it absolutely is not "targeted">>153303833I usually go to Newgrounds or Fiverr mainly. Used to use CastingCall, but it's gone to shit, because they have shit moderation and everyone just floods the tags even for accents they can't do. Voices.com occasionally, but it has a retarded recruiting process (you can't directly message actors).
>>153303891>No, it's just crammed with references to shit that Publick and Hammer find cool.Its firmly in the teenage and adult male category.
>>153303533I'm going to be hiring VAs for the first time in my life soon but I haven't got any idea on what the process is like or what is a realistic/reasonable budget. I don't want to commit Zeurel's mistakes and piss too much money away. Can you explain more?
>>153302797Honestly if they were offensively ugly, at least thats somethingIts worse then ugly, they're offensively boring.A series can look ugly and still succeed. But series that looks boring is always going to struggle
Things which make a good indie animated series>Good animation>Good character designs>Good character interactions>Good setting>Good story>Good hook>Good jokes>Good voice acting>Good musicThings I like about Monkey Wrench>Good animation>...>Fuck.
>>153300458Um its about 2 brothers, no, business partners going through space. They kill people for money and uhh things happen
>>153299255I actually enjoyed episode 5 a lot but he definitely fucked up majorly by making so much filler plot instead of going right into the gritty plot about the cheesestick guys past and his creator
I saw an animation of a cute robot arm girl Zeurel was working on who I assumed was a part of this show. Do you feel if she was the MC the show would have appeal? I think so.Then again, I am autistic and I'm fixated on cute cartoon girls, and anything that isn't my fixations is fucking boring
>>153299255Zeurel is going to go to the grave blaming everyone else for Monkeywrench just not being very interesting to most people huh?
>>153300458>>153300575Cowboy Bebop premise, with Captain Simian style antics, while imitating Earthworm Jim design style. It's a huge mix of things that basically declare>Hey everyone, I used to watch a lot of cartoons in 2002!Without much merit on its own.
>>153303917But they didn't intend for it to be for a target audience, so did they accidentally make something for a target?Actually that is something I've been thinking of: There's a reply an anon made I saved talking about what exactly it is that boys like, and it said how there is a specific way to do MCs struggling that the post was vague about. Can someone elaborate on what "actual adversity" even means?
>>153304229>But they didn't intend for it to be for a target audience,How do you know? Also its literally adult men putting all the things that they liked as boys in a show lmao. Obviously when a show is "everything that we men like" its going to target men.Its literally two men playing with their toys from childhood.
>>153304224That's enough of a blend of influences that it shouldn't have the feel or atmosphere of any of them and should be distinctive on its own; this is often how artistic influence works.
>>153304229>Can someone elaborate on what "actual adversity" even means?An actual problem that's hard to solve and not just sitting around talking about your feelings (emotional masturbation)
>>153304340Because all men are the same, right? We're all one collective hivemind, right?
>>153304376Steven Universe has characters talking about their feelings AND THEN solving actual problems. Some people are scared to solve problems, and they need guidance and assuranceBut thanks for elaborating
I’ve never watched Monkey Wrench, but with zeurel’s past stuff, I’ve always felt that he’s a great animator but can’t write for shit. He would be great working on someone else’s vision, but his own has no legs,
>>153304388He said less fay focus.
>>153299255just watched the first episode desu i have never seen a show with so fucked up character designsas in the characters themselves visually arent particularly rememberable, certainly nobody waifuable. A lot of the accents, voice acting and scripts is ear grating DESPICABLY that fucking spanish guyI hate the spanish guy so much he isnt a lovable slacker "anti-hero" a la space dandy which is what I think they were trying to do but is just winey and annoying.The plot doesn't hook me in any particular way, I especially hated the "omg I need my le fifteen cheese pizza". Also I think the majority, or at least majority revenue wise for these things is autistic teenagers so the tone deafness of having your main character mock and make cheap jokes at a kinda autistic character is both mean and stupid and must've made the series dead on arrival in a way the creator hasn't even realized.This is literally shitty millennial brand safe space dandy made by one of those broke failed cartoonist and all of his failed cartoonist friends. I must admit it is fairly well done technically and I liked the music and sound design something ironically gooseworx did
>>153304495ESPECIALLY fuckIts actually decent as a "alright" show if they just changed the main character and dropped the accent and reworked the dialog.
>>153304378Liking jonnhy quest, super heroes, tits and fights is somehow nit common among adult men at the time of the show's conception?
Monkey Wrench is that kinda show that plays on the TV while you're waiting for your dentist appointment.It's also that kind of show where swap your attention to the pamphlets because that is more stimulating.
>>153304717I just don't like generalizing a whole gender, I don't like assuming what you like because assuming is rude. I just know what I myself like and what I myself like is shit like the game Psychopomp
Grim seeing powerpoint presentation cartoons get more attention than Monkey wrench. He should’ve stuck to making 2 minute cartoons.
>>153304717Johnny quest isn't a very broad net anon
Zeruel should just go animate for Tamers
The main character designs are liquid ass that's all there is to it
>go to goose twitter>Search monkey wrench>See this>This has been going on for yearsI get you want to be a good friend but this is a bit sad. What does the conversation between the two look like after these shout outs fail?
Blowing out your own back making the show of your dreams only for its legacy to be "the show nobody cares about" has got to be a fate worse than death.Every single conversation I've had with people about this cartoon has wrapped back around to talking about how unpopular it is, fans and non-fans alike.Trying to avoid the topic is the same mental journey as trying not to talk about a burn victim's charred face. Their impairment is their most defining trait in a cold and objective sense- but you swipe the thought away and avoid bringing it up...y'know to be curtious... but you can't ignore the fact that IT was the first thing that entered your mind. No matter how nice you want to be, MonkeyWrench is so unfathomably unpopular that its impossible ignore, the same way that a burn victim's fucked up faces is impossible to ignore.What a cruel, cruel fate. It's not like Zeurel did anything incorrectly, its a perfectly compenent show.A perfectly room temperature show.A perfectly milquetoast show...A perfectly lukewarm show......Yup... it sure is a show that certainly exists...
>>153305119>successful people shouldnt uplift their friendsare you retarded or a sociopath or both?
>>153305119>I think @MatPatGT will enjoy dissecting Monkey Wrench frame by frame
>>153299255I like monkey wrench but that pilot episode about the ghost egg was painful for me to watch because of that fucking bird who kept saying "GHOST EGG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO".idk if it'll be better on rewatch or not.The episodes after that are good, but that first one was a slog to get through.
Have you guys tried making your own animated thing if you feel most indie animation shit sucks? I have, but I am scared to make it because I always feeling like I'm doing something wrong when animating
>>153304106Monkey wrench has an interesting story and setting.I suspect some setting elements are vaguely inspired by titan AE >>153300458>>153300575>>153300711>>153304224>Ragtag losers IN SPACE trying to get rich as mercanaries, always one step from ruin and frequently getting in over their heads (Cowboy Bebop but monkies).>The base premise is fine but it's somehow not very interesting.That's the basic premise or backstory for them but the plot isn't really focused on that.
>>153305307You can't improve if you never start. Maybe these types of threads make your anxiety worse
>>153305307Don't reach for perfection nor expression, look outside yourself, and strive for beauty.You will know when you get there.
>>153305119What does the audience response have to do with either of them? Friendship and art are good things.
>>153305170>Be famous ultra popular Celeb Anon.>Have friend C tier Celeb Anon.>Invite him to the golden globes/oscars whatever awards.>He has talent I am sure people will see that if I present him to them.>Show him around.>Nobody cares.>Take photos on the red carpet with him at my side. >The only ones that show up in news and social media are the ones where I am alone. >Hey no biggie we will try next time, I am sure they'll see your talent anon.>Keep doing this routine for years.At which point you would start to feel like you are going through an humilliation ritual anon?
>>153305447Friends support each other to be supportive, they’re not just using each other as if the rat race matters more
Gooseworx voiced picrel in ep. 3 of Monkey Wrench. It was one of the better episodes of the show.
>>153299255>/co/ discuss this show as if it is a total failure>look it up >over a million views
>>153305487You are retarded anongpt, that's nothing to do with What I said.
>>153305495/co/ is full of autists, anything that isn't their hyperfixation is boring
>>153305495/co/ is rife with temporarily embarrassed hollywood showrunners
>>153300575>Cowboy Bebop but monkiesBut Cowboy Bebop didn't succeed simply because of its premise and having characters bantering.I can take or leave any show about some bumfuck bounty hunters floating around in a ship, what made Cowboy Bebop bring so much global attention to itself was how classy and artistic and multi-cultured it was, and it was animated by absolute freaks.MonkeyWrench is just saturday morning cartoon memories compressed into a hard cube and sprinkled with Lucky Charms cereal crumbs.It's not quaint and sophisticated like Cowboy Bebop, its a mindlessly self indulgent tribute to the "oh so nostalgic memories" of growing up being a couch potato and eating junk food.
>>153305495It IS a failure2 million views in 2 years isn't good at all
>>153305513Maybe they should work on some shows instead of wasting their time here
>>153305508>He has talent I am sure people will see that if I present him to them.>At which point you would start to feel like you are going through an humilliation ritual anon?The only reason you would see this as a humiliation ritual or somehow embarrassing is if you think networking and validation of “talent” via mainstream success is more important than your friend. If you have nothing to prove and you’re gassing up your friend’s work just because you like them, none of that shit matters at all.
>>153305564But complaining and criticism is the most important thing a human can do, it shows how based and smart you are because you DARE to say shit is bad because saying something that you're told is good is bad is the BRAVEST FUCKING THING YOU CAN EVER DO. Kill all the gays and the faggots
>>153299356Or maybe.... it's shitI really wanna like it it's got great animation. But Zeurel can't write a story or characters well. Hell even can't even design appealing character designs
Obviously its good to support independant art but if it feels like you're constantly running a charity event for an indie show, you gotta face the tough reality that its only "kinda good" and not truly valuable enough to the world to be able to succeed of its own naturally attained popularity.
>>153305566One thing is a cute "You should also watch my friend's show!"And the other is directly trying to get Gaytheory Mattpatt to do an essay of it out of pitty.It's like that one time where Rooster Teeth posted a gif almost begging for a collab with Fortnite
>>153304033off the top of my head>Don't hire anyone who doesn't have a demo reel>Always do live direction, even good VAs won't always intuitively know how a line should be delivered. Much easier to clarify over discord/zoom rather than a chain of emails>Good rule of thumb for cost is $3 per line or 0.30 cents per word, unless you have a Jeff Bennett tier VA or something.>Don't work with Turks
>>153305170>That's your takeaway from this>>153305307Trying to right now. If it ever shows up on /co/, I'll pretend to not be here, as tempting as it would be. The thought of you fuckers talking about my shit makes me semi self conscious.>>153305495Good numbers except that 60k is being dumped in each episode. If it was a success, there wouldn't be screenshots of the creator lamenting his situation
>>153305542Yeah it is.
>>153305542It really is
>>153305307The truth is most people suck at creating thingsGood media is made by exceptional people and most people are mediocre God knows I am
>>153305844Then why even bother trying when we should let the masters do everything? What's the point of living if we can't follow our dreams and be happy? What's the point of fucking anything if we shouldn't be allowed to create because we are not good at it as we want to be? Should we all just kill ourselves?
>>153305867There is no point and yes we should just kill ourselves
>>153305697What's the preferred payment method for this stuff>Inb4 PayPal but I don't like how easily it doxes you
>>153305834>>153305843It is for fags like (you) that can't get pass the 100 mark.For a mfer that is actively investing this kind of money >>153299681 and doesn't have daddy aussie goverment banking him up it's really far from great
>>153305834>>153305843Space King 1 has 15 millions after 2 yearsMonkey Wrench 1 has 2 millions after 2 years and that is a reupload, it could have way more had it stayed in Zeurel's main channel instead of making a channel specifically for it
>>153305844ThisIf you weren't chosen then you aren't making the next big thing. At best probably some 3 star newgrounds animation
>>153305843>>153305834Fucking Magical Girl mogs Monkey Wrench view wise and it's not even fully animatedCatching Up has more views and that pilot may be the most boring and unfunny indie cartoon I've ever seenI could go on
>>153305867Don't listen to this faggot >>153305876Yeah we all get different talents and some of us might be Salieris while others might be Mozarts but that doesn't mean your work will be meaningless, you just gotta do your best, do your truth and do your work, and even if it remains hidden and only a handfulf of people see it, if you did it right and did it the best you could, you will learn from it, and maybe even inspire a little mozart that will go and make a masterpiece, just because someone showed them that a person could do it.
>>153305918If you use fiverr, it has its own direct payment system. That said, it is possible to open a paypal under an alternate name if you're only sending. Or at least it was, I'm not sure how much they've cracked down on that.
>>153305542>>153305843>>153305834Keep in mind, the current total of 2 million is misleading because Zeurel (likely in an episode of psychosis) deleted the original vids from his own channel to move them to the dedicated Monkey Wrench channel.
>>1533060512 million views on non-longform stuff is still about...8000$. 4 grand a year, after spending 60 grand on it? grim, bruh
>>153305493What are you implying here. Gooseworx didn't write or direct that Monkey Wrench episode
>>153303891Twitter if you want cheap laborNewgrounds for more profesional grounded students and quality
>>153305973>If you’re not #1 you’re nothingMake a cartoon that gets 2mil views then. It’s easy right?
>>153300458>What is Monkey Wrench about?“It’s about two mercenaries in space who go on adventures”But what’s it *about*? Why should we care?I’ll use RoboCop as an example. “It’s about a robot cop who fights criminals” No, it’s the story of a man trying to reclaim his humanity after being turned into the product of an immoral megacorporation. That’s about something.It’s a question you always need to ask yourself when telling a story. Not what happens in it, what is it about.
>>153305974This is the anon you're replying to. THIS IS THE SHIT I'M ASKING FOR, thank you. Just make shit
>>153306416It's also about the amount of money you get from said views, obviously if you're making your cartoon for nothing or with money you're willing to lose, it's fine. If you're trying to make your money back, which is obviously zeurels concern considering he's always showing the budget for these things, then yeah it is nothing because YT AdSense is horrible
>>153299255Imo after watching Episode 5 I strongly believe what made Monkey Wrench kinda lacking is that Zeurel was too scared to people to notice his obvious inspiration on Space Worm Jim when that's exactly what people craved to see when he presented the pilot.The 90's cartoon slapstick gross-out, adult bizarreness and dynamic radical exploration of the worldbuilding from Earthworm Jim is completely missing in the recipe, and in a desperate attempt to fill that hole the whole series just ends up becoming a shitpot of neverending exposure and setup that leads to nowhereThe amazing voice acting is carrying this project
>>153305974Nah trust me>Poured 8 years into animating a pilot>It's complete shit despite me being an artist for decadesThere was no reward in the effort. I quit art and now just rot
>>153299255This has gotten pathetic. It’s one thing to shill a friend and contributor’s works, it’s another to have to do it constantly.
>>153306549Can you show us the pilot?You're also a coward for giving up and you're wasting your life being unhappy
>>153302241Lariat will always been around in the Walking City so I guess there's that
>>153305542It's about 2740 a day watching. That's good. That's respectable. Bro needs to start marketing shit with shorts to bump the numbers, but he's eating good.
>>153306535Another problem with monkey wrench and most indie stuff is they don't really go all in on anything. Nothings super edgy, or super funny, etc. It's just kind of safe in all areas, which makes it really bland.Monkey wrench is starting to slowly fix this issue but I think it took too many episodes to get there, and first impressions are important so most people wont come back for more.
>>153299255Source for the doodle?
>>153306616>most indie stuff is they don't really go all in on anythingmust be why Hazbin Hotel is so popular because Viv isn't afraid of being broadway deviantart
is it that bad if something has a smaller audience? not everything is guaranteed to get a big fanbase but at least it has a fanbase
>>153305493No, it was the best one.
>>153306616I imagine the lack of true edgy stuff or dark humor is out of fear of demonetization by YouTube, who have a de facto monopoly on long-form internet video and the biggest audience base outside of instagram/tiktok
>>153306658>the hellaverse is something more popular than Zeurel’s passion project.Fuck.Fuck!FUCK!FUCK THIS WHOLE GAY INDUSTRY
>>153299255How has a show filled to the brim with background waifus not have a single one stick with the internet at large?
>>153306708>GAY INDUSTRY>hazbin hotel has heavy broadway inspirationviv won
>>153306708Say what you will about viv but she's not afraid to go all in on her vision
>>153306535Now that I think about it... MW should have had it's own Psycrow, this clearly dangerous but funny bad guy who usually only fucks up when the heroes get involved.
>>153306666I think reducing audiences to fans, fans to numbers, and numbers to a scoreboard has damaged our ability to appreciate what a gift it is to receive someone’s interest in your work or to show interest in someone’s work. But this is also a more bitter commentary armpit of the internet than the average small time creator’s comment section, most artists seem to just enjoy doing their thing and reaching whatever audience wants it.
>>153305307just do it. it's gonna suck. keep doing it and correct as you go>>153305844good media is made by someone who wants it like crack
>>153299681Wait did he deleted his twitter? just went to find this post and couldnt find it
>>153306666I think the numbers have become inflated and it gets to people’s heads, the idea of what “successful” meansIf you got 1 million views in 2006 you were considered a “viral internet sensation”If you get 150 viewers on an internet stream that’s considered nothing, compared to people that get tens of thousands, but if you did a live show in your home town and 150 people showed up that’s an entire goddamn venue of packed seats for something you created
>>153305119Kek this is so funny but i don't know why. Even when one of the most successful indie cartoonist shills for you, repeatedly and literally no one cares.
What's with the complain about the artstyle? I rewatched ep1 and the only design I don't like is the big guy whatever his name is, he's kinda bland but everyone else looks fine what's with the complaints?
>>153306461You need to approach every business venture as a risk. It’s fine to have targets and be disappointed if you don’t hit them, but you’re not entitled to make your investment back, you cannot assume you will, and you don’t have much control over whether you do. If you decide to make a show you can only afford to make if it’s a hit, and it’s not a hit, that does suck but you live and learn. If you wanted 100m hits and got 10m, you didn’t fail to make a 100m show, you succeeded at making a 10m show and maybe that can inform your budgeting and planning in the future. Or maybe it’s worth sinking the money into to the best of your resources until you get somewhere with it. We wouldn’t have Disney movies without people overinvesting in the craft out of sheer dedication, who knows what we’ll be saying about Zeurel’s work ten years from now.
>>153304229>Can someone elaborate on what "actual adversity" even means?>defying powers from above (tyrants/gods)>overcoming societal rejection as a pariah/rejected>a natural disaster is happening, we need to work together if we are to survive>this guy really REALLY hates your guts, fucked your dog, killed out wife, go get him
This is another thread about how uninteresting monkey wrench isiunno, the protag's pretty charming.
>>153304229>>153304388A better way of explaining it is that the overcoming needs to be mostly physical with any talking coming only at some point of the climax or downturn.Like as a hypothetical lets say a guy feels like he is a bad person, the reason can be whatever but he feels like shit about it and want to be better.Instead of having him sit around and interrogate his feelings with others, the primary focus is a physical manifestation of that conflict that the character has to contend with using mainly action with words saved for key parts.A good example of this is Haunted from Teen Titans.Due to past conflicts Robin is obsessed with Slade and is seeing visions of the guy and trying to fight them to the detriment of his health.
>>153306708you won't like hearing this, but Vivzie is more passionate and has a stronger vision than Zeurel.i've watched every single MW episode and i literally couldn't understand what the fuck the vision is beyond>uhh, adventures! in space!meanwhile HH cockslaps you in the face with the edgy queer deviantart OC broadway musical theming and it's much better off for it
>>153302952How YouTube works is that the algortythim hates when your videos do not follow a theme or pattern and with that one can assume that he was afraid that hosting it on his personal channel conflicted with what the algortythim expected from him.That or he craves the professional veneer and respect to the detriment of sucess.
>>153307519>it's much better off for itAnon, you can craft shit to look like something, but it's still shit.
>>153307393>>153307439based fan appreciators
>>153307452>and the only design I don't like is the big guy whatever his name ishe's one of the two main characters, and you don't like the design and forgot his name.that's a death sentence for any kind of animated or non-animated show.not that i blame you, i watched all the episodes and i don't remember his name either.>>153307532more people will line up to see a pile of shit shaped like a swan than an amorphous grey rock
>>153299255Literally just make them female bounty hunters and Zeurel would of struck gold. Instead of clinging to his old DA days of his Shrike character. The side characters seem more interesting.
>>153307521>algortythimis really fickle. i've seen anons post this web series that would seem like it would right up the alley of people who like ENA or anything with that early click and point game aesthetics. dude's been going at it for months and doesn't even crack 200 views. Last video uploaded was 7 months ago. Maybe the guy finally gave up. his linked instagram has been deleted when it existed before. The youtube algorithm has never recommended it anyone, i only knew it from anons herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWG1XMvXIN0
>>153307449They probably think its a fake show she's ironically shilling.
Just finished watching the second episode.Yeah, it's not interesting... Maybe it gets better later on, but my impression so far is that zeurel should stick to animating, writing is not his forte. Even then, the animation isn't stylish enough for me to compliment it, but you can tell alot of work went into it, making it *technically* impressive, but not enough to sway an audience.
>>153299255I wanted to like Monkey Wrench, and the look of it is really impressive for an indie show, but the art and worldbuilding doesn't mean much if the lead MCs aren't well written. They are less involved with the plot, and eachother, than the supporting cast, and for a buddy adventure series, it's a little disappointing.
>>153304229Fighting and overcoming shit, building tangible shitfinding your way back from the depths of relatable despair shit (gays aren't relatable, working men and heartbroken men are) is also important, every physical trial should also have an emotional or philosophical core running through it, but having some plot or course which can actually fail, which has genuine stakes that cause real, meaningful loss to people involved should they fail, is important.It doesn't even have to be sword/gun fights or shit like that, it can be an entirely moral or theological conflict and men still find it a compelling and relatable struggle>>153305170you probably shouldn't make up statements that nobody ever even implied to try to respond to
>>153299255Zeurels own autism did this. All this show needed was a single character with nice tits and each episodes would atleast break the million mark.
>>153307558And most people continued going to those live action transformers films until the 5th film.
>>153304229In that comment by real adversity he’s saying he wants the story to focus on the external conflict while the internal arc is secondary, as opposed to a story that hinges on an emotional arc complemented by external circumstances.
>>153302748>He entered them into OC Tournaments back on DeviantartYeah and back then those characters had way more energy and their designs - while more amateurish - had more appeal as well. Even the spanglish of Shrike was bearable because he wasn't a mopey sad man.
>>153307745wow, even tho shrike looks 200% more gay, the design is more fun and has energy to it. All it needed was a better head shape
>>153299255>>153305119>almost all replies under goose's post completely ignore MW and entirely focus on the shipping shitteryzaurel's gonna detonate one of these days. just wonder how.
>>153300707Space King's first three episodes were good but the problem is it doesn't have to be good because it's 40k. Episode 4 was mid af but people still loved it because it's warhammer and the smiling friends guy had a guest role.
>>153307728Monkey Wrench isn't some complex art film that the unwashed masses don't understand.
>>153307745>>153307881That is LITERALLY just Vash the Stampede lol.
>>153307881>All it needed was a better head shapeI mean it's also the fact that he has a healthier skincolor and lacks sunken eye sockets and rancid fingernails that give the new design its sickly appearance.
>>153308185It evokes the same aesthetic, but Shrike's personality is ultimately very different. The Monkey Wrench soundtrack actually reminds me of Trigun sometimes.
>>153299255Other indie animators could only dream of the exposure he is getting.
>>153308225>it evokes the same aestheticNigga its a whole lot more than "the same aesthetic" its the same character from top to bottom just with some details sanded down.
>>153299255>looked up Monkey Wrench on Twitter and it's all just other big animators shilling for it and nothing else
>>153305564Bold of you to assume I don't do both
i'm never gonna make it..
>>153299400This, honestly
>>153307589It's always weird seeing the threads where my art pops up But yeah, the biggest criticism you can make of Monkey Wrench is just the simple fact that Zeurel chose a premise that played to none of his strengths as an animator. A semi-serious serialized adventure series isn't impossible to make work, but he really needed to push the setting and characters to be more absurdist and expressive. More Earthworm Jim and less Cowboy Bebop
>>153308378Good stuff.Yeah I agree, it's too easy to just think about watching cowboy bebop instead, he does need to push things further... Get weird. Make him watch twin peaks.
I watched the pilot and had no interest in watching anything else.
>>153305697>Don't work with TurksI'm curious, do you speak from personal experience?
>>153307452I wanna fuck this news anchor lady
>>153299400That would be fun.She and that lizard chick can be rivals/allies/lovers together.
>>153308510I wanna glaze the statue next to her.
This show must be cursed or something. I tried to watch it, and I got bored - and I don't even know why. Objectively, the animation is good, the music is good, I don't hate the character designs, the premise seems fun, the dialogue is not eye-rollingly terrible, there is Action and all - but in the end, it just leaves me with this feeling of Meh. It just doesn't click with me. Makes me feel a bit bad almost, it's like someone spent years honing their cooking skill, spent an absurd amount of money on ingredients and spent the whole day making an intricate dish - only for me to taste it and say "it's nice, but I don't care for it".My only theory is, that it's too polished, to the point it's a bit soulless.
i used to watch monkey wrench more for the animation than the story itself, but the characters grew on me. but god the pacing is from a show from the 90s tv and the way the story and the humor unravels is too slow and the jokes too meh for me to care anymore. There ISNT enough friction between what is happening, the stakes and i think also that not having much people to talk about it online also contributes for me not finding reason to talk about it. The series is just good, a solid good but i feel like its a 90s show trying to make on the web in the worst possible time. trying to CASH in something niche like that is impossible, monkey wrench feels like a passion project than anything made to cash on a large demographic like Slop Factory That Glitch does for the clicks. wich is sad I liked to watch everytime it released a new episode but after the Alien Skeleton episode I was like "oh okay so this is it, i think this show aint for me anymore" idk if its the story, the setting, the characters being serious and Shriek being one of the few sources of silliness but having characters that mostly make me feel like i'm at the job and doesnt made me laugh at the situations and such, you gets dull with time. Maybe Zeruel should watch Wonder Over Yonder to understand how to write captivating alien characters in a bounty wanderes like situation being funny and also engaging as characters and keep the story going.
>>153299255He pretty much killed the potential views by creating a whole new channel for his show rather than post the show on his main channel
>>153299255>Show is called "Monkeywrench">No monkeys>No wrenches>mfw It'd be like if they had a show called The Amazing Digital Circus and then made it about some normal ass dude running a hot dog stand in the real world.
>>153308796>Show is called "The Amazing Digital Circus">No circus >Just one dead clown and a harlequin
>>153308587When you look at shows that have strong appeal, you'll notice that they usually push something over the edge, be it psychological horror, sex, violence, edginess, comedy or whatever. MK doesn't push anything, even though it is technically good.
>>153308739It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen someone do.wellok maybe it's not even top ten but it's still pretty stupid.
>>153308819not that anon but the they're literally in a circus tent
>>153300458Nothing, actually.It's just random adventures happening without any real connection.
>>153307521Not necessarily. I've posted dozens of videos to YouTube and what determines a success rate is >The amount of times a video gets clicked on>The retention rate, especially in the first 30 secondsIf I had to say which matters more, it's the second point. When I compare my stats, the ones with the most retention go farther in view count. And I have several videos in the 6 digit range, with one closing in on a million and the lowest being 15k views. YouTube shorts is a crap shoot. You can have good retention but it may not be enough to hit it big as there is more competing short form content. With this series, if we saw the viewership stats, I guarantee people are clicking off the video too soon. If YouTube penalized you for not following a theme, then no one would be able to make new stuff on their channel. It doesn't make sense if it did. Example: Joel G would have been stuck making undertale animations and ENA would have flopped if this was true. If enough of your existing base supports your video, it goes farther in getting pushed to the masses.
>>153299255>>153299681>tfw my animated pilot cost just a small fraction of this just to produce (minus the voice acting talent plus the musical score which consists of 5 songs, both of which was also minimal) and it's fucking CG>my pilot got 16M views with over a million likes>monkey wrench barely scratching 2 million viewsI don't mean to brag but my Texas-sized ego can't help it, but LMAO!
>>153308587>I don't hate the character designs>the dialogue is not eye-rollingly terribleThere's your problem anon, it's an airplane cartoon show. Not bad enough to hate, not good ebough to love, just a lukewarm>"Ts'good""Even for all it's flaws, Viv's fucking excess in fucking swearing fucking dialogue and overdone cringy queer Deviantart/Tumblr oc personas are far more recognizable.
>>153309381Okay, drop the link to it then
>>153309381You got me interested texanon. What's it called?
>>153307521Everyone tells you to have separate channels if you want to make it a full time thing and it’s good advice in most cases to avoid people unsubscribing, but the assumption is you’re some kind of talky streamer starting from scratch and your subs will want whatever that product is consistently. It’s different for a visual artist with a built in audience who like his personal work already. Can’t really blame him for trusting his homework on this one, it might pay off for him later, but it undoubtedly hobbled the show.
>>153309381I know you likely won't post it but if true, red pill me on the audio costs. Monkey wrench is spending 15k total on voices and music. What did you spend and did you hire other artists?
>>153299255It's cute when Goose tries to shill Glitch's other shows, we're here for one thing and one thing only, as soon as TADC ends and they stop making promotional videos I'm unsubbing.
>>153309413>>153309398I don't think anon's gonna do that.It's just not classy to do, there'll be drama and shit, it's best not to.
>>153299255That post made me think Monkeywrench was the ship name for Jax and Zooble for a few minutes.
>>153299255i saw monkeywrench, the animation is impressive, but the concept and characters didnt grab me
>>153309468Lol more like, monkey wench
>>153309398>>153309413>>153309443I lied. Lying just gives me good pleasure. But I DID work on a semi-popular pilot called Heathens, but I was just the inbetweener. Those constant blackouts in NYC nearly lost me my job on the project.
>>153309381Pan, you're burning the goodwill people have for your show.
>>153309381behead vagueposters
>>153309493You motherfucker, got my hopes up. >HeathensDo they pay you well? Do.you have faith it's going to last beyond the pilot?
>>153309493>16m viewsWhere'd you get those numbers, Lied about that too or is there a smidgen of truth to it?
>>153309493>Satanic, Yaoibait, Teen Dystopic, dark fantasy, musical shonen mixup.If it's really yours, then well played anon, congrats on the 3 million
>>153309493I did a lead voice for one with 8.5mil views, unless I’m lying too.
>>153309553Everyone lies here anon
>>153309567I know, I work at Adult Swim where we have a slack channel for mocking fake leaks.
>Cowboy BebopWith a mix of Outlaw Star. He literally stole the ship arms idea from it.
>>153309567I'm sorry, but my uncle really does work for Nintendo though.
>>153309515$600USD and some change. Blew it all on blow LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
>>153309456holy sex. impregnate the rabbit man
>Shrike's design is cool but his character is ass>Beebs' design is ass but his character is coolThis is why people aren't watching. The main duo's shortcomings are not held up by the other and it rubs people the wrong way, anyone that isn't a diehard indie animation fan doesn't seem to be interested.
>>153307532I feel there's something to be said about knowing what you want your story to be, and being willing to pursue it to the point of alienating some of the potential audience. I feel that sort of self-confidence inherently lends the work some sort of charisma that safer works which try to be a little bit of everything to everyone can never have. We can bitch all we want about the quality or merit of Viv's goal, but it's undeniable that her single-minded dedication to it has paid off.
>>153308415>Need a voice for a new character>Find this guy's demo reel online, seems capable>Contact him and schedule like a week later, send him the google doc with the script>Day before he asks me for the script that I already sent (note: stuff like this is an immediate red flag, even for non-turks)>Mildly annoyed but whatever>Start the recording session>I use Google Docs in case I need to make live edits that the other party can easily see, had made a couple of edits to the script beforehand>Every other VA I've worked with is fine with this>This dude printed out an outdated copy of the script and doesn't have his laptop in his studio for whatever reason>Rather than just get his phone or his laptop he spends five minutes printing out another copy>First scene with the character is him singing a part of a specific song>I send a link to the song for reference>Dude throws a fucking fit saying that he has to learn the song and yada yada>Again, I've done a similar thing with one of my main actresses, and the process took about a minute and a half>Get tired of this dude's bullshit and just end the call.Not the only negative experience I've had with Turks (once rented a room under one lol), but the relevant one. Also, one of my best VAs is Armenian, so take that for what you will.
>>153299681Why has this man not learned, you need to hire a writer a good one and you need to get some professional voice actors, or someone who actually can do their lines. The whole cartoon sounds like I'm putting a pencil in my ear and wiggling around. Jesus Christ you've been told this by everyone including professionals that's why your show has no traction, you're married to the voices at minimum you have to get some better voice actors
>>153310245Zeurel probably felt committed to the Shrike voice actor after the pilot episode, dude's way too nice to replace contributors based on merit or what's better for the project.
>>153307452I wanna fuck that bird repeatedly
>>153308540>rivalsTyreen is too much of a fangirl to be Kara's rival. >alliesKara and Tyreen really don't seem like they'd work together towards any common goal.>loversTyreen is asexual. No furry/scalie clam slaming allowed.
>>153306535>The amazing voice acting is carrying this projectSad that the amazing voice acting doesn't include the main characters. Shrike has some of the worst voice acting I've ever heard in any piece of media, and Beebs is just boring. The German mad scientist necron guy is easily my favorite, though.
Kara and the fallen Humanity backstory are unironically the only reasons I'm still bothering to be interested in Monkey Wrench. Since we're apparently getting introduced to that cyborg Human chick next episode it probably means more light is going to be shed on what's going on with Humans in the Monkey Wrench setting in general, so I'm pretty excited.
>>153307532im willing to put up with a lot of flaws if i see a clear and interesting vision behind iti AM a defender of Steven Universe afterall
I did not really like the first ep, so I've skipped 2ndbut I've watched the last 2 and liked themgreen monster-mad scientist and black and white paper guy are cool, Joey's skeleton is fun too
>>153307416Probably moved onto Gay Twitter like a bunch of other artists
I really don't get the hate, the first episodes were pretty mid but I think they've improved quite a bit with each successive episode
>>153307452news anchor she reminds me of ribbit..
>>153299255People liked and still like a lot of his old shorts, but they clearly don't like MW. Dude needs to take the fucking hint, drop his dumpster fire of a project, and go back to basics.
>>153302102>>153302240>>153302393Rule #1 of the entertainment industry - don't get hung up on a project. Yeah, it sucks if your big passion project ends up being a wet fart or gets the rug pulled mid-production, but that shit happens all the time and you can either tank your career trying to keep the project on life support or you can graciously pull the plug and move on.
>>153310491K is pretty cool. I'm wondering what his deal is. He is obviously connected to Humans in some way. I'm thinking he's either some sort of rogue A.I thing or is a Human whose been altered in some way, similar to Dolion. Despite how wacky and quirky he acts, he's kind of a G-Man type character, who is controlling events and pushing the main character towards fulfilling a secret goal. I hope episode 6 shows more about him.
>>153310598Planetdolan is a cautionary tale for this
>>153305495>Monkeywrench>2M views after 2 yearsThat's about one person watching every 30 seconds.>TADC>86M views in 4 weeksThat's about one person watching every 30 milliseconds.
>>153310598Pretty well said yeah. There's no way Monkeywrench is Zeurel's only and last idea that could be made into a show
>>153310698>one person watching every 30 millisecondsIt's all me sorry I keep opening tabs
>>153310598To be fair it is easier when it’s just jobs in the entertainment industry. They have to pay you when you work.
>>153310707No but for some reason we all want to be the next Star Wars nowdays when even Star wars didn't know they would become like that when A New Hope was being producded.
>>153310458>i AM a defender of Steven Universe afterallSeriously? What are your best defenses for the show that irreparably ruined cartoons for generations to come?
>>153299255A mute cat is more interesting than the main characters. Chicano and fat guy are just sorta boring. Having half your sentences in Spanglish isn't a character trait, it's just annoying when there isn't even space Mexico.
>>153310747Yeah but that's just life in big monetized 2026. I heard some kids last week say "Why would you have hobbies that don't make money you gotta hustle" which made me age by a thousand years. It's also reflected ITT it seems
>>153299255I was just thinking about this. After Goose's tweet I looked up Monkeywrench and it was made by the same guy who did the super unfunny Digital Circus parody with all the epic face pulls. Not watching it.
>15 results on Pahealthis is sad
>>153310786I'm almost completely agree, but I still think the only interesting thing about Shrike is the fact that he speaks a "Terran" language in a setting where Humanity is a rare/lost species. The fact that Shrike is supposed to be some sort of Human alien hybrid clone creature thing who was raised by Human scientists is the only reason I give even the slightest fuck about him as a character. His backstory is the only good thing about him.
>>153310754Nta but it was the last good western show
>>153310810That wasn't made by Zeurel, it was just on his channel for the April Fool's joke.
>>153310841>it was the last good western showAbsolutely not. Unless you mean>it was the last good western cartoonWhich is still laughably wrong
>>153310853Anon..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dIqOfbN8mA
>>153310598what's rule #2?
>>153310894That's what I'm referring to. They named it Monkey Wrench Ep 3.5 and put it on the channel as an April Fool's joke. It was written and directed by the guy who played Ghostie, not Zeurel.
>>153310916>When the going gets tough, the tough take a four hour lunchbreak
>>153310916When in doubt, draw while having a wank, you gotta feed the geese to get the ideas flowing
>>153310969hmmm.... I should try this. Next time.
>>153299516> If the creator of Digital Circus can't even convince Glitch to stop rejecting MW as part of their partner program, then why the fuck should anyone else give a damn about the show?So you see it only as a potential tool to suck dicks into a Glitch job?>>153300580> You're not getting support because it's not appealing to millions.Why is “millions” the only target? Are you waiting to see Monkey Wrench become something you can cling onto to become famous? You're only after your self interest then.>>153305079People used to mention they remind them of 2 wildly popular characters, Ren and Earthwork Jim, who they don't allow themselves to like because dykes and gay furries hate their creators.
>>153310916I'm not interested in rules #2 - #33
>>153310916Make the cat alien sexy.
>>153311076There is an odd amount of feet focus on the alien ladies. It probably activates somebody's almonds.
>>153310969I do this too much and now all of my art folder is just one-handed porn sketches
>>153311158beans
>>153307482I've been so brainrot by 4chan that I feel a main character overcoming a tyrant is woke. Except if the tyrant in question is a feminist gay darkie or something.
>>153307686What if the gay person I'm writing is a working and heartbroken man? I can have him being a pariah for his sexuality as part of his struggles, having a hard time fitting into society. Dude I literally have an OC who is a pretty boy that would get beat up for not being manly enough, so he learned to fight to protect himself and his family, but he also rejects any form of friendship as a result of being so protective of not being hurt.
>>153311002Nta, but even if you are purposefully missunderstanding his words.>You're only after your self interest then....Yeah?The customer is supposed to be selfish and clever in their purchases, the salesman should try to convince you on spending money or time on their product, in the case of a show being: watching it. Creating content about it or buying merch and giving money to fund it.
>>153311158The "beans" thing is fucking weird
>>153310916don’t get hung up on
>>153311298go back to twitter
>>153310916rule #2 is you should try to learn what makes a good show.I have a feeling that, even if Zeurel made a new show, it still wouldn't be good. He'd need to observe and understand some things about writing and pacing and junk.
>>153311298I see it anon, and even if my chud instincts are tingling. There is just not enough evidence to make anything that isn't cheap drama clickbait
>>153311312>>153282940>>153282940
>>153311374It’s not even an NSFW image, fuck off
>>153311194dumb baboon nigger
>>153311002Okay but their designs are still ugly
>>153311320As Hazbin has taught us, you can be successful without being good.
>>153311264Its about as weird as wanting to fuck a cat-like alien girl, but here we are.
>>153311413Why do you keep on saying she's a he?
>>153311413>underage troll
>>153311440lmaololkek, even
>>153311458Are you gonna answer me?Is this some sort of rebellion against "troon" behavior as some sort of moral highgrounding?
>>153311251Classical paintings were commissioned by the church because the painter could create beauty. People didn't make up their opinions of what is “beautiful” based on what will get them the most money or power in an artist’s studio.This approach has proven to fail since the animation community has talked up a bunch of projects that received no attention outside of it. Monkey Wrench at least spreads outside of the reach of the animation social ladder.
>>153311394Heyyyyyyyyy
>>153311394https://basedjakwiki.org/The_Amazing_Digital_Circus
>>153311416Ren and Earthworm Jim aren't “pretty” but were both wildly popular. Makes no sense to call Shrike a bad design except to spite artists who take inspiration from them.
>>153304224Earthworm Jim looks more appealing than this. Like even ignoring Princess What's-Her-Name, it still just looks better.
>>153311489>Mexican 3rd worlder shitting up the threadNo one fucking cares, we are not your personal army, go back to kiwi farms.
Here's the hard truth. Monkey Wrench kinda failed everything you're supposed to do when marketing your show, or trying to get people interested, even from a storytelling perspective>The title Tells you literally nothing, and basically has no relevance to the story. Look at every other indie title and it says more or less what the show is. "TADC"? The name of the setting which one can infer is digital like VR Chat or something. Hazbin Hotel? A hotel for hazbins, tying into the premise of it being set in hell, so the most hazbin one can possibly be. What the hell is do monkey wrenches have to do with the premise of space adventures? Speaking of>The premiseIt's not that interesting. If you want to do something that's been done before, you have to find a way to make sure it stands out. Cowboy Bebop and Space Dandy weren't just space adventures, they were episodic (mostly) with hints at a larger story, but wre mostly about the characters dicking around and trying to surivive, largely carried by the writing of said characters. Zeurel didn't want to do that, and instead dive head first into its story, desptie not making it clear what the story even is, and the characters not being strong enough to carry a whole show with just them, which leads to...>The storyWe're 5 episodes in and I have no fucking clue what the actual fucking story is. There's been revelations about the characters and such, but frankly that should've came later, right now I have no idea what the general goals of anyone is outside of the bare essientials, which would be fine if he didn't make it a point to put more focus on said storyTo say nothing about how much of a bad idea it was to create an entirely new channel for your show, middway through its run, derailing the fanbase the first episode might've created, making it harder on yourself to build it back up again. And making your episodes too fucking and filling them with nothing to keep the audience engaged with
>>153299255I don't like monkeys, so I shalln't'st be watching it.>it's not about monkeysI don't like things that remind me of monkeys, either.
>>153311468wish I had access to that
>>153311478>People didn't make up their opinions of what is “beautiful” based on what will get them the most money or power in an artist’s studio.…where do you think the painters came from Guy
>>153311647What animal would you watch a show about anon?
>>153311519Shrike isn't a "bad" design exactly. It's just not an interesting one, at least not for what they're going for, honestly he should've been more of the Rigby or something, or Ren, a character who's more comedic that can occaionally lead to more serious momentsThe issue is he has only one other character to bounce off of regularly, which can get old fast
Its telling that nobody has posted art or any animation of the main characters in all of this thread.
>>153311478So...>No beauty>No monetary value>And probably no innovation since this guy feeds off Cowboy Beep Bop
>>153311474Hello? Can someone tell me why I shouldn't call a trans person their prefer pronouns?
>>153311802If you don't know, then there's no put in explaining it to you, faggot.
>>153311705My drawing ipad was stolen>>153311679They considered beauty objective while today many believe “your art isn't beautiful if I don't like your opinions and deprive themselves of beauty as a result. Their art careers fail and they blame capitalism.
Zeurel has amazing animation skills. Hes up there with Harry Partridge and Edmund McMillen.
>>153311913He's also up there with Harry Partridge in terms of pacing and writing ability lol
>>153311631Devil's advocate, is "Monkey Wrench" really any more nebulous a title than "Cowboy Bebop", to someone who knows nothing about either show?
>>153311913>Edmund McMillenExcuse me? Edmund isn't anywhere near either of them.
>>153311631>>153312192Monkey Wrench’s title is fine as a title, the problem with using it for a web show is that it’s unsearchable because it’s a common word.
>>153312192yeah, cuz monkey wrench is a noun whereas cowboy bebop elicits a more thought-provoking pondering of such an adventurous title, it rivals titles such as Homer's Odyssey in how grand-esque the image in your mind forms
>>153312192No it's just a filter for aspies and ESLs which is over half of this board. I'm not even really a fan of the show but it's nauseating how much people on here complain about the title when it's obviously a reference to the wrench and the industrial nature of the show
>>153312192"Cowboy Bebop" is an uncommon combination of words, and a "cowboy" is pretty evocative of being a bounty hunter in popular media, so its fits>>153312227Then it's not fine as a title. Because it doesn't serve its purpose in giving an idea what the series is, nor does it help with the show's identity making it such a common word making it harder to look upIn effect serving neither purpose of what any good title is supposed to do
>>153312251Just because its in space doesn't make it industrial by nature. Are either characters even mechanically inclined? Is that part of their character?I think I recall them fixing their ship, but that doesn't say much when they make note of it nearly breaking if you breathe on the wrong way and never having enough to fix it
Man the monkey wrench fags are truly running a 24/7 damage control campaign
>>153312192"Cowboy Bebop" works for two reasons:>It's an unusual title that's immediately eye catching.>"Cowboy" invokes adventure and shootouts, while "bebop" invokes jazz and that sort of moody ambiance, which accurately portray Cowboy Bebop's tone.
>>153312281It isn’t obligated to serve the purpose of being easy to google though, a title’s only necessary relationship is to the work itself. It’s just unfortunate that it makes it harder to find in the context it was produced in and it also doesn’t have the marketing to compensate. Bone, Peanuts, and Vision are on bookshelves. Brave, Madagascar, and Frozen had mass advertising.
>>153310830>doesn't know what e6 is
>>153312368Sure, but you're still only making it harder on yourself to advertise your own show. Most of those had the benefit of being part of larger media franchises, and still were relatively about their respective stories>BoneLiterally the name of one of the characters and is pale white and bone shaped>PeanutsSmall stories about the lives of kids, peanuts are small snacks, everyone knows peanuts are small. Peanuts>VisionPart of the greater Marvel universe>BraveScottish warriors are brave. The main character needs to be brave> Madagascar,Literally where the main story takes place>FrozenIce. The main character has ice powers, and its snowy most of the movie Tell me, what do monkey wrenches have to do with aliens or space or even the characters?
>>153302748And they're lame as fuck, which is one of two major issues that keep the show from being succesful. Beard shirt guy is "the straight man" who putters about the ship being fat, boring, a buzzkill, and his only notable trait is wearing a weird shirt. Shrike is annoying, speaks spanglish for some reason, incompetent, and generally unpleasant to look at. The two leads do not have any meaningful chemistry or entertaining banter. You could have gone with two protagonists who are bros, always got eachother's backs and are both along for the ride (even if they get on each other's nerves sometimes) or two barely threaded together guys who can't stand one another but work together anyway because they have to. As it stands, right now they're like two acquaintance co-workers and that is the most boring chemistry you can have between your two leads. This could maybe be mitigated with the addition of a couple additional crew members, but as it stands, being too married to your two donut steel blorbos is a recipe for sublar storytelling. Also, the show's setting is completely nonsensical and the premise is kneecapped by episode two for deep lore and moping.
I have a feeling we will see an actual Monkey Wrench in the show that will serve some McGuffin purpose, based on the fact that the aliens go into the containment zone and bring back human "artifacts", which are just mundane objects of human origin. Doesn't make the title of the show any better of course, and makes me wonder why it's taking 5+ episodes to get the story off the ground.
>>153312433>45 results with -female -intersexMeh
>>153311363>isn't NSFW>isn't even Goose's actual accountleave, now.
>>153312528Why’d you post that pic with your argument? I agree with it, but what’s he got to do with it?
>>153312471Something along the lines of Throw a Monkey Wrench because chaos and mayhem?
>>153311877Well then fuck you too, fag
>>153312471Duh dude, you read my comments saying it made it more difficult and why those titles didn’t. Advertising isn’t the job of the title. I’m not debating you, I’m disagreeing.
>>153312752So something that can be applied to literally any series?>>153312834Okay. You're still wrong.>Advertising isn’t the job of the titleYes it is. The title's literal job in the story to give an idea of what the story is about, and have it be relevant. It is maybe one fo the most important pieces of any story, because its the literal first thing most of the audience is going to see. Think about literally any piece of media and think about its title. More often than now, they telll exactly what the story is about in some way, and the ones where its a stretch have SOMETHING to help carry it over to get its point across.
>>153302748I mean as an indie creator with so much experience I feel like you eventually need to understand the idea of appeal. Like, if you're putting out something that costs so much money, you should probably make sure it appeals to somebody besides yourself unless you're okay with it being something thats just for you at the end of the day.I feel like you don't even have to go all in on mentally ill women or men like the Hazbin/Space King split, just make sure that an audience in a vacuum will actually want to be interested in your main characters (or take the easy path and include a femMC for automatic interest.)
>>153312951>you're okay with it being something thats just for you at the end of the dayYes that is the reason you make a self produced vanity show for your 20 year old OC instead of trying to pitch it to Hollywood and make money.
>>153312934The title’s job is to name the story. That’s all it does.
>>153305834>>153305843It depends on production. 2m views would be unprecedented breakout success for Tamers12345, but that guy pumps out 2 to 4 episodes a month every month on a budget of 3k-10k/mo (previously 0 dollars).If it's taking all your free time and essentially 1.5-5k PER EPISODE, 2m views is huge. If it's taking 8 times as long to produce an episode, and $60k per episode, it's a really rough spot. I know Tamers' method doesn't work for everyone, but Zeruel might be better off routinely putting out smaller episode snippets with reduced animation, saving the big animation effort for end-of-season/arc movie uploads that are like an hour, which is what Tamers used to do before every episode got longer.
They should have called it, "The Space Man from Pluto"! Now there's a title with some real zing to it
>>153312208And yet his games have far more appeal than either Monkey Wrench or Starbarians lol, just goes to show that skill isn't everything. NTA btw.
>>153311002This show has been rejected by Glitch five times. FIVE. He wishes all these shout outs succeed getting him a Glitch job. And millions IS his dream. He is friends with all these famous animators that have their own fandoms and he's in the dust. Can someone post his meltys?
>>153313025And it's that mentality that seperates a Monkey Wrench from an Amazing DIgital Circus, or even a Lackadaisy
>>153313087ok
>>153313042Wouldn't that make him a Pluto Man?
>>153312815seething troon teeheehee
>>153313127Here's a more recent one
>>153313127Doesn't glitch have a "every show MUST have a marketable girl front and center"?Literally every show they have has one what was he thinking pitching it without one?
>>153311913Breadmund hasn't drawn anything since Super Meat Boy.
>>153313523Fuck, how recent? You just took the screenshot before your post?
>>153302748>These main characters have been his favorite OCs for the past 20 years. He entered them into OC Tournaments back on Deviantart.OC culture has done irreparable damage to the online art community because it caused people to become overly attached to half baked concepts with no arc or contextual belonging. Everything has to retroactively justify the quirk chungus they already have in their head which always causes them to feel forced and out of place in their own stories.It's a cycle of sunk cost fallacy that prevents people from actually building around a solid pitch.
>>153314605I don't think there's anything wrong with OC's in general but please if you're and indie creator and you love manga or something, dragon ball was created more pragmatically, toriyama had an evil editor to reign him in/tell him what would work vs what wouldn't and those parts are still considered the best of Z, Buu saga was his full vision and it's the most unpopular
>>153314668It was a typo for gay. F and G are next to each other on the keyboard.
>>153312471I have a premise using the name Monkey Wrench. Just came up with this in les than 20 minutes. A crew of uplifted monkeys travel space as a for-hire repair crew. Like Captain Simian, but no chimps or gorillas. Just monkeys. 3 dudes (2 young brothers: 1 young and highly mechanically inclined, almost technomancer-like, his older brother, a veteran and crew chief from The Great War (spoilers, Earth got destroyed by fallout) with mental issues and a recurring drinking problem, and an unrelated old japanese snow monkey who knows "ancient tech"...which is modern Earth tech), 2 chicks. One, the older, also a veteran is a slut who doesn't see species (new boyfriend every assignment) and is the sole survivor of multiple platoons and deployments in The Great War, and lives every day as if it's her last (also a drinker, but not an alcoholic), the other is sheltered, celibate, and adorably naive. Think Bright Eyes and Nose Marie from the GOOD Pound Puppies cartoon.
>>153314710I just figured that out right after I backtracked what you were responding to after I posted, and deleted, hoping you didn't have time to see my post and respond lol. We need a damn "edit" feature.
>>153314881Your shame will live forever.
>>153310598Even Meatcanyon realized this when his monster lab show failed and he moved onto a new project.
>>153299866Lmao who did this, is this from that Newgrounds zine?
>>153305495If you want to be an Youtube animator you need way more than 1 million views
>>153311647The hell are doing on 4chan Frieza?
So I finally watched it because of this thread. And yeah it's okay.It definitely feels like the guy is just showing off the animation all the times he can and that works for and against it. It's nice to see someone pour passion into their work but also there's a lot of shit just happening for no reason other than him wanting to show off. Also the Beard is a complete non character while Sanchez is just loud and annoying and the humor comes from them being loud and annoying. It's a genuine shame that YouTube chokes out anything that doesn't fit into Googles approved outlines so that's probably part of the problem he's experiencing.
>>153300580Unfortunately the people who shout support indie animation the loudest are actually just ones who are fine with Glitch just being as shitty as a major studio and kowtowing to legacy media and walmart for some extra cash for the executives
>>153315543I mean I absolutely adore his new show but he is really playing the algorithm gameAsmon's on the fucking thumbnail despite only being in a disconnected bit lol
>>153304106>Good character designsThis is probably why I'm not into the show. I've seen screenshots of the characters and I didn't particularly like them. People wonder why TADC got so popular so quickly, but just look at the characters - they're appealing and readable just from a glance.You could have the best writing in the world but if your animated show doesn't have appealing character designs people won't watch.
>>153299255I love Monkey Wrench but the creator is so embarrassing.
>>153305119>@MatPatGTfucking kek they went the hello neighbor route
>>153313947>Doesn't glitch have a "every show MUST have a marketable girl front and center"?dont they have that monkey girl
>>153306666Yes. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have a large fanbase.But in this case, it is obvious that Zeurel wants a larger fanbase >see tweets of him trying to get tons of likes on Twitter to hype people up and getting frustrated no one caredIf Zeurel wasn’t constantly bitching about views and finances (and getting Goose to constantly shill the show), no one would care.
>>153311363I hate trannies as much as the next guy but he gets targeted by so many sharty teen gayoppers that I need more than a screenshot of proof to believe pedo accusations
>>153315900What do you love about it?
>>153306666not exactly bad, but when someone is dupping literally thousands of grands into something and all they get is a small fanbase then there's a bit more of pressure.
>>153315991I really fucking hate those kidsThey've picked up a new obsession with finding his address and visiting his house for whatever fucking reason
>>153316092To be fair, the sharty is what 4chan used to be pre-gamergate.
>>153316114Only someone who actively posts there would say some bullshit of that caliber.
>>153316114No 4chan raids never pretended like they were "doing good", It was for the lulzSharty should be talking about fuckin trapper keepers and slap bracelets and shit, not doxing randos
>>153316114Nedroid was more sacred to /co/ than talking about Dobson or Chris-Chan.
>>153316092Wait what the fuck, sharty keeps showing up to goose's house?
>Monkey Wrenchfag is a sharty fag
>>153299866youd think it would be obvious to break them up into 10-12 minute chunks so the release schedule wouldnt be utter ass
>>153316114Modern 4chan completely lost its shit posting culture post Covid. Now it's almost exclusively chuds chimping out at each other and gooners posting porn. Comfy threads are a dying breed as well.
>>153317989i miss all comfyposters who've fled the site for one reason or another
Knew it was bad when there’s not even a lot of porn of the duo
>>153305495big name indie discussion is rife with resident forever schizo(s) or somethingi've popped into threads and a lot indie cartoon threads have the smell of bad samefaggingthe john fontaine threads in particular are a recent example of one guy clearly caring far too much and trying to make some sad old guy a lolcow or somethingmonkey wrench in particular has the exact same thread made about it like once a week it seemshttps://desuarchive.org/co/search/image/adXb2MdbfsBljXsmmOVYdA/i don't even watch indie shit on yt like this but it's obvious someone's schizoing it up rn
>>153315991>>153312730For context the deleted comment irt was that same person reposting that same post in this thread to stir shit, I was just linking the repost to the last one so anons saw it was a repeated attempt. I was this guy >>153311394
>>153299255I remember watching this guy's animations on newgrounds years and years ago. I'm almost embarrassed to see how desperate he's become.
>>153315980The still hasn't actually appeared yet
>>153311705I am with this anon.The fact that even those of (you) that claim to like it, haven't posted a single gif or pic about the show is an explanation on itself.
>>153319841Wait scratch that I found the one fag that actually did it. >>153307491
>>153319841I’m sorely disappointed that almost no one is posting bg waifus. Really shows how impactful the show is as a whole.Remember when MHA had that one shark lady?
>>153306719This looks like a Disney Park lol
Has Zeurel tried fujobaiting the main two guys yet?
>>153319870i am also the anon that posted >>153307589i am not really a fan
>>153299866I really like monkey wrench but I cannot deny this is magnificent slander. genuinely blown the fuck outIn regards to length, honestly I think the episodes have decent pacing. Little filler unlike most animated yt shows and each episodes gets its plot done. Episodes also are generally released within 8ish months of each other so it's not a bad wait. my main complaint is that I think Shrike has too much detail in his design compared to his original version but whatever
>>153299255>begging to a tranny to support your showpathetic
>>153299255he's really bordering on becoming a lolcow
>>153299866where was this from again, some newgrounds collab book or something?
>>153310598if you're really super passionate about a project as a concept, why not make it a couple of comics to start off with? see if there's an audience for it, and then make it an animated series
>>153310916cut corners whenever you can, instead of blowing your budget on stuff that doesn't really matter
>>153320496Newgrounds Zeen, they didn't hold backhttps://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/pjorg/newgrounds-zeen-issue-001
>>153312471shultz always hated Peanuts as a title though, but the rest of your points are good
>>153307583dang that's pretty brutal. I guess you could argue it's too amateur or something, but I guess it's just bad luck
>>153306708>>153306719I hate HH but I can't deny the fat spic knows her audience and what kind of show she wants to make
>>153320564kek I remember the thread posting these, it was funny as fuck
>>153302229Your show has only one episode left, lol
>>153320698That is some sad cope, zaurel.
Judging by everyone's bafflement at Monkey Wrenches existence I take it most people here aren't aware of his previous attempt at a series "Adventure Babies">Go to his youtube channel to find it>It's goneWell, at least it's on Newgrounds
>>153310387>Tyreen is asexual>No furry/scalie clam slaming allowedFUCK.Now one of us perverts will have to draw it, I can't do it justice.I'm surprised nobody on twitter had the two girl bosses scissor each other yet, can't they fucking do anything right?>They ignore the asexual part for the Hazbin deer fruitcake, so that's not an issue
>>153299255>>153299400They should just start doing shorts with Kara, pure action with some slapstick. Helluva Boss is keeping itself alive that way besides how boring the actual show is.That way we don't need to listen to any 'voice actors' stumble over their own fucking teeth. And Zeural can stick to making stuff move on the screen instead of a being a loremonkey, he wants to draw cool shit but feels like it needs a reason as people do.>he should include money shots of her kitty feet>also, her ass gets subtly bigger each short
>>153320564This is more Newgrounds than anything I've seen in a while. Even Flashgitz or the old NG alumni can't be this catty.It's almost...beautiful.
>>153320564Oh my god KEK
>>153299255>like a creator's work>interested in all their projects>they ask you to check out a friend's thing>they say it's really good and they really like it>it's shit>unsure if the creator is retarded, or if they're lying both to me and also to their friend
>>153320564>>153321346lmao
>>153304388Sometimes they'd take on a monster but far too many episodes was literally just emotional turmoil between the characters and that being the problem itself, and also taking down threats with the power of emotion like the stupid women gods
>>153306065do you keep getting money from a video after that long for it just holding 2 mil views?
>>153306607>he's operating at a 51k loss per episode>but he eating goodyou faggots that talk like this genuinely are braindead
>>153305697>>153306022Not that anon, but thanks. I'm similarly needing to consider VAs for my project but I never see anyone talk about this stuff to know the process or pointers either. As for live direction, I'd considered doing temp vocals and sending them that for them to know sort of what I'm getting at (and explaining a bit more with the clips if necessary/what I'm wanting from their vocals might not be perfectly apparent through mine)
>>153321789I love this hater energy
>>153314605I've been thinking about this.I don't think oc's in general are bad, focusing on characters is fine, I mean we have plenty of works where the character outshine the stories themselves.What gets me about oc stuff though is how insanely attached people can get to them. Its the worst when you start getting people that police people using their oc's like they're some mega corp (all the more egregious when they are a really derivative fan character) and also that thing where their OC never loses or what have you. This drives me up the wallOh and people that also don't realize the story is also important too and not just the characters. This is a problem with world builders too
>>153322374>This is a problem with world builders tooYou mean in the sense that they fixate on character so much the miss the plot? Like most Dnd groups.Or, that they fixate on creating full worlds with very few worthwhile characters? Like without a tour guide.
>>153322374>story is also important too and not just the charactersWhat drives me up the wall is seeing people just posting myriads of OC profiles with bullet lists of useless trivia, rather than actually bothering to put their characters in a story. It feels hubristic in a way, that they expect the viewer to care about a character that has the bare minimum effort put into it. Characters are the driving point of a story, but if the character has no story, then it's a worthless character.
>>153320698That’s a good thing
>>153299866who the fuck drew this one
>>153312092lol i like Dr Bees thoughbeit
>>153305119>zeruel fucked gooseworx in exchange for shilling his indie showhow desperate you must be to be fucked by a tranny
not to be too harsh on zeruel, all i can suggest is that he needs a writer. he's a good animator BUT he cannot write and that's fair, we can't all be a jack of all trades.
>>153317989The death came in waves. It began in 2007 with the fox news special report, then in 2016 because of the US elections, then again in 2020 with covid, and I believe the 2024 elections was yet another wave.
>>153321905...what? youll get paid per view for as long as the videos up. they...they dont pay him 4 grand a year just for having 2 million views. its FROM the 2 million views.
>>153322374> also that thing where their OC never loses or what have youI cant image being this insecure
theres not a single good character design in the whole series. doesnt even have good waifus unless youre a tasteless furfag. its amazing that by contrast such an unsexy design like the clown girl from digital circus received a fucking monsoon of porn.
>>153322800This, and it would also help the writing if episodes were 10 minutes shorter. Yes, there’s worldbuilding to be done, but there are better, more concise ways to do that which doesn’t make the episode feel like it’s dragging as many others have pointed out. And it would save a whole lot of his budget.
>>153323021Kara is objectively cool as fuck, faggot.
>>153320979>Now one of us perverts will have to draw it, I can't do it justice.I'm not really much of a drawfag but assuming the threads still up today/tomorrow I can give it a whack for them kissing or somethingI might fail Anthro heads are really hard for me I need the practice anyways lol
>>153309493>Another boring "edgy' show set in hellYawn!>>153320564It was funny seeing the Bridge Kids creator work on this like his series isn't just characters standing around and talking in funny voices.
