>Every Korra villain is an extremist for a different, mutually incompatible ideology>All of them end up being more sympathetic than Korra herself somehow
Sex with Kuvira
>>153367166Come on, there was nothing sympathetic about generic evil uncle
>>153367166The shows goes out of it's way to give them valid points to their ideology, but it rarely refutes their main argument
>>153367166i fucking love kuvira
>>153367276And in fact with Kuvira it seems to agree with her, because the Earth King abdicating is seen as a good thing
>>153367166I think most suck because of how they are written.>Amon-they don't commit to him being a non bender/chi blocker>Korra's uncle-literally dark avatar was the type of thing you and your friends would talk about as edgy/cringe kids. Also completely killed the original luster of the avatar being something more divine or the avatar of earth itself. Also had interesitng concept of a reverse ferngully nature darkness vs progress but they kind of don't do much with it and him and his kids are boring>Zaheer-overrated as hell, his concept is interesting but they lack the skill to truly make it work. It's the most generic anarchist simping writing ever, Imma kill da avatar because then the world will be free. Like most of these characters don't work because well they are too close to the hundred year war it's why korra needed to be 200 years later or something. How can zaheer think the avatar is in the way of freedom when literally you just saw what happens when the world doesn't have a avatar for 100 years one side gets to powerful they are the balance. It makes him seem retarded>Kuvira-honestly the most interesting and better than most she feels like they took some of zaheer's argument and gave it more weight. She's just sadly still written by idiots but her methods are interesting and not to far from realistic leaders. But she really becomes cartoonishly evil at times as well killing any potential depth
>>153367166I know who has my vote
>>153367166>All of them end up being more sympathetic>unalaq
>>153367189>>153367554his gay femboy son saying that he’s the smartest man in the world and he trusts him if he says he’s doing what’s right comes to mind. I haven’t even seen the show, but the delivery on the line and the way they animated his eyes stuck in my head
>>153367166AHEMthis is better than KorraSami
What if Bioshock happened in Avatar?
>>153367606Yeah, but he also says in the last episode of s2 that he doesn't really care about his father at all and was happy he got his comeuppance.
>>153367687Isn't that because Unalaq's kids realized what he was doing was a shit idea?
I like how the new Avatar movie just stole the air bender guy and gave him Amon's crew.
>>153367166>zaheer took out a corrupt and ineffectual monarch>kuvira united the earth kingdom and brought stabilityzaheer and kuvira did nothing wrong
>>153367166Okay but Korra is hotter than all of them.
>>153368705I do love her tittiesShe has such amazing, wonderful titties
>>153367702I don't mind it honestly, I've always thought that Zaheer would work infinitely better as a foil to Aang's character rather than Korra's
>>153367166Season 1's ending was so stupid. Him being a bender himself didn't mean his point of non-benders being treated like second-class citizens wasn't any less true, but he got thrown into a river and everyone just immediately gave up.
>>153367166Amon being a mutant blood bender from a family of mutant super blood benders was stupid, he should have been such a driven nonbender he found a way to reach into the basics of spirit bending through his intense beliefs and combined it with previously existing pressure point blocking.
And I shall become... A Dark Avatar!!!!
>>153368803I remember hoping, PRAYING, they wouldn't do that, and, not only did they do that, they said the exact words I didn't want them to say.
>>153367166I'd sympathize with them if they actually backed what they preached. Amon was just using the resentment of nonbenders to take over Republic City because of his family's legacy. Unalaq was just power hungry and used tradition as a pretense to conquer the Southern Water Tribe and become a God like being via the Spirit of Chaos. Zaheer actually believed in his bullshit, I'll give him a passKuvira was an ambitious conqueror who used her position to try to become the the despot of the entire Earth continent.What I hated about LoK was they don't really address the villains' views by making them hypocrites, forgoing the need to actually challenge the views they present to the audience.The only exception to this is Zaheer, because you see the consequences of his actions when the vacuum he left was ultimately just filled by another would be despot queen, presenting the biggest foaw to his views, but even that doesn't get much screentime to really explore.
>>153368705True, would still bang Kuvira though
>>153367551Technically Ozai's justification would be to bring civilization, since the fire nation was a colonial empire.
>>153367166The only one that was actually right was Kuvira. Amon was a manipulative asshole who didn't believe the snake oil equalist shit he was preaching, comically evil dark avatar Uncle lol, Zaheer was just an anarchist who got to up in his feelings and retardedly believed the avatar was stopping true freedom when he'd be already dead if an avatar didn't stop the fire nation.Kuvira was so incredibly correct that they had to pivot to concentration camps and war crimes because there was absolutely no refuting her without pulling the Nazi card.
>>153367166Avatar has always been a "good ideas, shit execution" type thing with villains, even with the fire nation. They were far more technologically advanced, provided state education for children, gave more equal rights to women than any other nation and probably more progressive shit I can't remember off the top of my head. But that's never really brought up and the fire nation officers and royalty are all comical evil and want to commit genocide because of a glowing space rock passing by.And then the comics made Sozin ban being gay because his sister was a lesbian or something to drive home the fact the fire nation are heckin meanies even though theoretically they would be closest to accepting homos so long as they continued to advance the fire nation.
>>153367166Maybe that’s why the Avatar is now considered a bad guy in the sequel.
Korra will submit
>>153368955Based.
>>153369225>Avatar has always been a "good ideas, shit execution" type thing with villains, even with the fire nation. They were far more technologically advanced, provided state education for children, gave more equal rights to women than any other nation and probably more progressive shit I can't remember off the top of my head. But that's never really brought up and the fire nation officers and royalty are all comical evil and want to commit genocide because of a glowing space rock passing by.That's how every empire works. They improve the lives of their own citizens by oppressing others. It's easy to make everyone in your country equal when all the hard labor is done by people in other countries.
>>153371147>That's how every empire works. They improve the lives of their own citizens by oppressing others. Completely fucking wrong. Absolute retard.
Hey guys, what kind of bending was this? She went into the avatar state to do this.
>>153371158So they actually make their own citizens' lives worse and uplift others, is what you're saying?
>>153368955Frankly I think Kuvira is justified in wanting to impart De-colonization for her realm. So, obviously, the Fire Nation ethnics would need to be removed and, obviously, the recent Water Tribe settlers as well. It’s not their land, the United Republic is an artificial, imperialist, entity anyway.
>>153371503Just like Belgium.
>>153371147Anon you have a cartoonish view on Empire. I’m not saying real world Imperial projects are all sunshine and rainbows but let’s have a little nuance here.
>>153371602Napoleon did nothing wrong the rest of Europe was just ungrateful.
>>153371186Unlike the other Anon I’ll provide you with an explanation other than just calling you a retard.The idea, for one, that Imperial projects universally help the average person in the Imperial Nation and universally oppresses the people in the subjugated nation is immensely simplistic. Indeed, if we use Britain as a model, there is immense societal and economic strain on the majority of the population of the Imperial Nation that needs to be paid for with both money and blood. Likewise, for the subjugated nations, there are often times material improvements such as lower infant mortality rates with the introduction of modern medicine and higher productivity with a more advanced public infrastructure, access to education, and luxury commodities (the last often bought from the Imperial Nation.)No, successful, Empire oppresses people for the sake of oppression. A lot of the oppression from the 19th Century was brought about by Imperial powers imposing a way of life particular to European Peoples upon populations wherein it’s alien to them. This matched with economic exploitation is what was genuinely oppressive about Empires. It’s not like imperial governors wringed their hands and twirled their mustaches and went “Neyyyahh how can I more effectively make the lives of my denizens worse” what they were really thinking was two fold.>How can I bring Civilization here (while having a very Self-Centric understanding of what Civilization is. Such as, in addition to having the locals adopt modern tech and medicine how to get them to accept what he considers to be Civilized Philosophy and Religion.)>How can I achieve the former while, simultaneously, enrich myself in the process
>>153367166Kuvira gave me strong women fetish
>>153371728Unironically Napoleon Bonaparte was a progressive force in Human history
>>153371817https://youtu.be/9foi342LXQE
>>153367166>>153367543To be fair, most of them are very conventional Hollywood tropes. The "villain is a social revolutionary but just goes too far" archetype is absolutely cliche but totally the kind of writing you should expect in a cartoon show or blockbuster movie.
>>153367543>dark avatar was the type of thing you and your friends would talk about as edgy/cringe kidsMade worse in that his status as a 'Dark Avatar' was just for being an extra strong Waterbender for a little bit instead of actually having all 4 elements, which kind of sucks any of the potential fun out of it.Then he randomly becomes a Kaiju with combat tendrils and energy beams for some reason.
>>153367189>>153367554>>153368803>>153371989Unalaq was fucking wild. It was much easier, simpler, and appropriate to just make his character a spiritual conservative who was opposed to the technological advancements and urbanization occuring in the Water Tribes, I don't know how and where the Dark Avatar shit came into the thought process behind his character.
>>153371817>No, successful, Empire oppresses people for the sake of oppression. A lot of the oppression from the 19th Century was brought about by Imperial powers imposing a way of life particular to European Peoples upon populations wherein it’s alien to them. This matched with economic exploitation is what was genuinely oppressive about Empires. It’s not like imperial governors wringed their hands and twirled their mustaches and went “Neyyyahh how can I more effectively make the lives of my denizens worse” what they were really thinking was two fold.I didn't say any of that. I said that empires oppress people for the specific purpose of enriching themselves, which you can't deny. The oppression comes from ending self-rule, taking their resources, and forcing the subject people to work for the good of the metropole instead of their own good. And no empire was really interested in spreading "civilization" either. Even when they did improve conditions it was just an accidental consequence of trying to make ruling easier (forcing everyone to follow one law code instead of dozens of local ones, for example).The original point I was trying to make was that if the Fire Nation appeared more progressive than say the Water Tribes it was just because they were able to offload social and economic tensions in their own society onto the people they conquered, which again is something real empires did all the time. "Start a war to distract people from how shitty their lives are" is one of the oldest tricks in the book.
>>153372303Sozin didn’t start his conquest because he wanted to distract his subjects from what was going on in his Realm. He wanted to spread what he viewed was the success and prosperity of the Fire Nation to the rest of the world. Indeed, in real life, Imperial projects aren’t launched to distract people from problems at home, that’s more of a late Imperial phenomenon. You know, when an Empire is over-extended and is in its twilight years. No Empire is started because it’s Sovereign wants to “muh distract his own people”
>>153372592>No Empire is started because it’s Sovereign wants to “muh distract his own people”That's how every empire starts. You have an overabundance of restless, out of work young men and an underabundance of land and resources to appease them, so you send them out to conquer other people and take their stuff.
>>153367166Zaheer was never sympathetic.
>>153367166Kuvira made a lot of sense but of course they had to make her absurdly insane at the very end in a desperate attempt of aborting the character.
>>153373190Yeah Alexander the Great *totally* marched across Asia because he had to address the rampant unemployment problem within Macedonia. Genghis Khan, too, forged a mighty Steppe dominion because he didn’t want young Mongolian men to realize they can have something more than their yurts.Brilliant Anon!
>>153370530Kill yourself yuritranny freak
>>153371179Muscle bending?
For all the Kuvira supporters on here, why would an independent Nation want to be another vestigial organ of the massive Earth Kingdom? As a smaller nation they can more adequately deal with their own needs, rather than waiting for ineffective management and hostile oversight.
>>153373426Hey Anon, here’s an answer.The United Republic isn’t a real nation and is an artificial construct to justify the continued settlement of Fire Nation Ethnics on Earth Kingdom Soil. “Cushioning” it with adding more foreign Colonists does not legitimize it, it just further colonizes what is rightfully Earth Kingdom Land. It’s an occupying Entity and the Earth Empire has every right to wish to liberated it.
>>153373382Yes? What are you confused by? Macedonia and Mongolia were small periphery states with a large landless warrior class that would've been a problem if they started fighting with the landowning aristocracy. Alexander and Genghis Khan wage wars of conquest to invade much ricjer countries and redistribute land to their followers to keep them happy.
>>153373597Yeah there were plenty of Land Owning Mongolian Aristocrats in the time of Genghis Khan. It’s not like they were an unsettled, nomadic, Clannal society or anything.
>>153373682>Yeah there were plenty of Land Owning Mongolian Aristocrats in the time of Genghis KhanAgain, yes? Who do you think Genghis was? Just some guy?
>>153373532Like Belgium.
>>153373799Guess the other anon was right, you’re just a retard. He wasn’t a land owner, they didn’t own land. He came to a position of power within his clan through martial prowess and cunning. He would later unite the tribes around his own personal charisma or triumphing over them in the fields of battle. There was no aristocracy, quite the contrary, it was quite meritocratic which is typical in nomadic societies vis a vis settled, agricultural, societies.
>>153368955>Amon was a manipulative asshole who didn't believe the snake oil equalist shit he was preachingDidnt he? I thought he was some Uncle Ruckus type boomerang self hater
>>153368955>>153374038There was a line by his brother that suggested he may actually believe the notions.
>>153373915>He came to a position of power within his clan through martial prowess and cunning. He would later unite the tribes around his own personal charisma or triumphing over them in the fields of battle.He was the son of a chief. He had to take power on his own but no one would've listened to him if he had no lineage.
>>153373532Right but she wasn't just campaigning against Republic City, and presumably the swamp hillbillies; she was forcing other independent earth nations to join her empire.
>>153374108Anon, again, kinda speaks to your naked ignorance, presentism, and faulty historical analysis. To be a tribal Chief in Mongolia at that time was not a status that can be inherited. It wasn’t conferred from father to son as a matter of birthright, one had to earn it through both Physical Prowess and the Respect of their peers. Any man in the Clan can become Chief provided that they weren’t only strong enough but smart enough to rule. Again, it wasn’t some settled aristocracy where power was transferred on the basis of Male Primogeniture, it was a wildly different society. I understand how that’s alien now, being so far removed from that, but that’s how nomadic warriors societies were. I’m assuming you’re tackling this through (a rather cursory) Marxian analysis, so, think of the Mongols at this time as not only a Pre-Feudal but Pre-Ancient people. A pastoralist society a step above Hunter-Gatherers, hopefully that makes sense.
>>153374135>other independent earth nationsNo such thing. Even Bumi, despite having "King" in his title, was subservient to the Earth Monarch in the same way a vassal Duke is subservient to his King.
>>153374135Well it’s the same reason why a United France and a United Spain were able to subdue the various, independent, Italian City States in the late 15th and early 16th Centuries. Large, centralized, Societies have both a material and civilizational advantage over small localized city states. Not only, under Kuvira, would these various Earth Kingdom fiefdoms have access to a wider range of resources, manpower, and brain power they would also be more capable to defend themselves not only against non state actors such organized bands of Bandits but also foreign, Imperial, forces.
>>153374548To be fair to Anon, I think he means the brief time after the death of the Earth Queen where various nobles and governors tried to assert autonomy, indeed he probably also means Zaofu which was an autonomous City State even prior to the Earth Queen’s death.
>>153373915Other anon here, you will learn in time that some people are retarded and call them retards right away, instead of trying to argue with them. Seething about empires is a typical modern virtue signalling thing.
korra is a bisexual though so like you can't criticize her or something.
>>153374639Autonomous and Independent are two different things. Suyin may have built a city on land that she privately owned and may be able to govern and develop it as she wants, but that doesn't remove the land from the Earth Kingdom. You see this Earth Kingdom insignia on Zaofu's docks? They're still part of it. Whatever laws the Kingdom has which apply to vassals to the Monarch or apply broadly to all citizens within the Kingdom will still apply here. Fictional cities are not the only cases where an individual buys up a lot of land and then forms a town on it.
>>153367166Amon was a fake and Unalaq was a badly-written nutjob.
>>153373190To build an empire, you don’t just need "restless men". You need a massive surplus of capital, advanced technology, and a stable bureaucracy. Most societies with "too many people and too little land" aren't conquering neighbors, they are usually collapsing into civil wars or suffering from mass famine.You build them with specialized labor and surplus wealth.Claiming that "no empire" cared about spreading civilization or ideology ignores the theological and philosophical foundations of history.Many empires (like the Arab Caliphates or the Byzantine Empire) were driven by deeply held religious convictions where spreading the "faith" or "divine order" was the primary mission.Leaders like Ashoka the Great (Maurya Empire) or even Napoleon actively exported legal codes (The Napoleonic Code) and philosophical frameworks specifically to reshape society, often at a high cost to short-term stability.Creating a unified trade network, a single currency, and a universal law code are intentional acts of state-building designed to create stability and prosperity (even if self-serving). You can't separate the "intent to rule" from the "intent to build."You are a pseudo-intelectual homossexual.
>>153375236There are a few different ideologies about it, historically. Rome isn't Britain. Intent to rule is separable from intent to build. Not everyone who disagrees with you personally is "homosexual" and some of them can probably even spell intellectual.
>>153375661I was so right that you had to pretend that my examples of nuance were claiming that everything is just like them in all ocasions.
>>153368705>>153368721tsmt
>>153367624Don't debase Kuvira by fusing her with that thing.>>153368955It was a dissapointing copout, with Verrik of all people shouting "Kuvira is CRAZY!" like they needed the audience to hurry up and agree.
>>153375983You were so wrong that you had to pretend I disagreed in every case. Get over whatever this is.
>>153374653Indeed you’re right Anon, ultimately trying to explain simple history to this guy was an act in futility. >>153375983As other Anon said, he’s just a retard. His frame of history (as displayed from his ignorance of the Mongol Horde) is at best, maybe, pop history with a poorly understood Marxian lens by which I mean even most Marxian students of history would look at this guy and scratch their heads at his stupidity . On top of that, it seems to be drawn by a Hollywood depiction of these events.
>>153371503>the United Republic is an artificial, imperialist, entity anyway.The name of the Empire in question is...?
>>153376396It’s imperialist in the sense that it has its roots in an Imperial project, that being the Fire Nation Colonies. Admittedly it’s a little glib, nevertheless, I find Earth Kingdom revanchism 100% justified and the Earth Empire’s desire to expel the occupiers of their land to be sympathetic.
>>153367166None of them were sympathetic or had good points, people pretend they are because they dislike Kora.
>>153374452>To be a tribal Chief in Mongolia at that time was not a status that can be inheritedYes, which is why Genghis definitely wasn't the son of a khan, who wasn't the son of a khan, who wasn't the son of a khan, in a lineage going back to the 10th century. I know Mongols didn't have primogeniture like European royals did, but you did have to be descended from the old ruler to be eligible for rule yourself. That's aristocracy. "Any man in the clan can become chief" doesn't mean much when the clan has 50 people and rules over thousands
>>153375236>Most societies with "too many people and too little land" aren't conquering neighbors, they are usually collapsing into civil wars or suffering from mass famine.That's why they conquer their neighbors, so that doesn't happen.>Creating a unified trade network, a single currency, and a universal law code are intentional acts of state-building designed to create stability and prosperity (even if self-serving). You can't separate the "intent to rule" from the "intent to build."Yes, how is that different from what I said?
>>153371179NuAirbender clothes were so shit lmao
>>153376890Your ignorance strikes again! Few know this Actually most people know this but as it turns out everyone in a clan are related. Ergo, if you’re following, everyone in the clan would be related to the Chief or a former Chief. Additionally, you’re mistaken. A Chief is not the same as a Khan, you dolt. A Chief rules a singular Mongolian Clan/Tribe where’s a Khan is a figure that rules the United Clans and Tribes. Genghis Khan couldn’t have been descended from a line of Khans going back Centuries because he was the first Khan. Seriously man, if you’re not neurodivergent learn some basic history this is very embarrassing. What are you going to say that Julius Caesar is from a long line of Etruscan Kings next? Or, how about, Rurik being from a long and storied line of Russian Emperors?You’ll do better not to talk about things you know nothing about.
>>153376350>>153377274Next time just ask the internet marxist hankering to get oppressed what the romans did for us?
>>153375236Also, nice art. Great taste as well as a great grasp of history.
>>153377274>everyone in a clan are related. Ergo, if you’re following, everyone in the clan would be related to the Chief or a former ChiefYes, that's what I just said to you. You have to be descended from a khan to be a khan. That's aristocracy.>A Chief is not the same as a Khan, you dolt. A Chief rules a singular Mongolian Clan/Tribe where’s a Khan is a figure that rules the United Clans and Tribes. Genghis Khan couldn’t have been descended from a line of Khans going back Centuries because he was the first Khan.No, Khan was the general term for Mongol leaders. The distinction you're thinking of is between Khan and Khagan (Great Khan). And Genghis wasn't the first person to hold the title, it goes back to the ancient Turks. The Mongols took it from them.
>>153367166No one could really argue with Amon so they made him a fraud, same with Kuvira which is why they had to haphazardly bring up the work camps.
>>153377528True. It was a classical case of writing yourself into a corner, accidentally introducing something that is when thought over would dismantle the entire setting or would grossly change its focus, so they HAD to take copouts. You simply cannot have a show about benders using elemental spirits suddenly be about non-benders being a secondary class and almost marxist-tier class distinctions
>>153377649It is possible but like you said they would have to center the shows main conflict around it and present multiple outlooks on how the issue could be dealt with. Honestly I would have preferred that a lot more to what we got. Maybe start the Equalists out as being moderate just saying "hey we would like a seat at the table and to not get fucked with by benders" while also showing how benders fuck with them. Before slowly having them become more jaded and cynical by just how deep all the corruption goes within the city and beyond until they see no other option then to fight back and remove bending from the equation all together. But again that would change the entire story and require writers who understand things like nuance and have the ability to properly utilize it in a story while not making any one group look too sympathetic or unsympathetic
>>153367166korra was a defense of neoliberalism. All the villains were strawmen of opposing ideologies.
>>153367166>peace through submission>contradictoryBut that's how large scale peacetimes have happened historically, though.
>>153378006>>153377649The thing is that Amon's position is retarded. There isn't bending related discrimination, never was. Half world leaders aren't benders, prominent nobles aren't benders, the richest are all non benders, even in a fight non benders can hold themselves. You can't even do a bender-based aristocracy because you can't be sure your descendents are benders.
>>153378006That would even bring Korra's mastery of the 4 powers early on to make more sense thematically. She has all the bending powers but runs into conflict between those with powers and those without and that's the type of conflict that cannot be truly be solved using the avtar powers. Aang had to learn the other elements as he tried to unite the bending world and stop war between them. Korra has all the powers already but has to work to create empathy in people for nonbenders.
>>153376958>That's why they conquer their neighborsExcept most of history has show that you need sophisticated structures and surplus of wealth to do so.>Yes, how is that different from what I said?Your retarded ass thinks that empire-building is a way to distract people. >>153373190>>153377489>Yes, that's what I just said to you. Not tgat anon, but you are wrong for saying this.Not everyone from a clan is related.It was a common Steppe tradition to adopt outsiders into the family. Genghis Khan’s own mother, Hoelun, famously brought war orphans to her clan.>You have to be descended from a khan to be a khan. Bring me primary sources saying this. I challenge you. The mongols famously were meritocratic.>No, Khan was the general term for Mongol leadersWrong.A "Chief" of a small, specific family unit was usually called a Noyen or Baatar. Using "Khan" for a minor clan head is like calling a Mayor a King.Truth for the matter, Gengis had several famous Khans in his family, but the reason is that they had good genes for leadership.After his father was poisoned, his own clan abandoned him, his mother, and his siblings. They were left to eat roots and field mice. In Steppe culture, being "abandoned" by your clan effectively stripped you of your noble status. He wasn't a "prince" growing up; he was a fugitive and, at one point, a slave wearing a wooden collar.In fact, his own relatives often betrayed him. Instead, he promoted people based on loyalty and talent (quda). Pussy ass nigga.
>>153378417>There isn't bending related discrimination, never was.Come the fuck on, retard.
>>153379048The only times it happened it was against benders, ironicially enough. With the FN hunting down other nation's benders.
>>153378417There totally is discrimination and you could absolutely write a story about a conflict between benders and non-benders. I mean it could brought about by the rapid technological advancement leading to sort of gap in that various organizations still mainly rely on bending and benders despite non-benders being able to use technology to get the same/similar outcome. Which in turn builds resentment from the benders as fear rises that they will effectively be made obsolete. I mean we see that most of the technological innovators both in ATLA and TLOK are not benders. >>153378466It would also give her actual struggles since fighting her way out of situation and being a meathead wont work. It would be kind of the opposite to Aang where you have someone that disregards diplomacy in favor of raw power. And they need to learn how to actually handle situations without resorting to violence.
>>153367166Unaloq didn't have an ideology, he just wanted to fuse with the god of darkness and take over and destroy the world because evil.
>>153379655The most retarded of all the seasons and it has done the most damage to the cannon. To the point where even the writers were taking the piss out of Unaloq by the end of the series.
>>153379114Come the fuck on, retard.
