Which comicbook writers have real beef?
>>153370953Dave Sim challenged Jeff Smith to a bout of fisticuffs.
From what I've heard Bendis and Johns hate each other. Bendis apparently hated Scott Lang and wanted to kill him off by having his ants eat him. Johns was writing Avengers and demanded to have it changed (it ended up being a hallucination). Bendis then killed off Scott in Disassembled. Then when Bendis came to DC and wanted to use Stargirl in his Young Justice run he threatened to fire him and his editors. Also Bendis and Tomasi due to Superman, but that one is a bit more obvious.Grant Morrison and Mark Millar, of course. It's because Morrison ghost-wrote an issue of The Authority (it's very obvious when you read it) and Millar got pissy when Morrison publicly said it.Also, I've seen John Layman call David Pepose "the biggest piece of shit currently working in comics" in social media. I have no idea what that's about though.
>>153370953Howard Chayking fucking hates Gail Simone. https://bleedingcool.com/comics/fanboy-rampage-howard-chaykin-vs-gail-simone-over-the-decades/
>>153371139Doesn't Morrison also have some kind of beef with Alan Moore as well?
>>153370953Mark Waid and Mark Millar recently got into it after Millar called out how certain very talented writers and artists have been blacklisted from Marvel and DC over their right wing politics (eg. Chuck Dixon, Bill Willingham, Ethan Van Schriever, Mike S Miller). To which Waid said he would 'rather burn the entire industry to the ground' than ever work with Millar or people like him ever again. Mark Waid is a guy who has beef with literally everyone who isn't on his side of the political fence.
>>153371367Well I don't blame him considering Gail Simone drank the entire bowl of feminist Kool Aid.She ruined comics forever by coining 'women in refrigerators' and painting the entire comic book industry as a misogynist boys club who love killing off female characters because they hate women. Now every male writer at the big two (and many outside) is on eggshells on if them killing off a female character is going to get them in trouble with the cancelpigs who see sexism everywhere. Even if it makes sense for the story to kill a female character off.
>>153370953what issue is this from?
>>153371139>Also Bendis and Tomasi due to SupermanWhat reason does Bendis have for hating Tomasi? Bendis got everything he wanted, Tomasi had no power over him from my memory. Just bitterness that people prefer Tomasi?
>>153371580wtf? context?
>>153371652None.
>>153371580>women in refrigeratorsShe's so retarded. Women dying isn't a sexism problem. It happens because male heroes have important women in their lives. Also important men. Uncle Ben for example, Gwen wasn't the first death
>>153371652Context on what? The fridging is one of the most well known bits of capeshit lore.
>>153371623The animosity is entirely on Tomasi's side for what Bendis did to Jon.
>>153371874I thought beef had to be mutual. But that is completely understandable. Tomasi should get to personally shit on every Bendis creation.
>>153371678>>153371778I wasn't familiar with that story or the trope. I am now.
>>153371623>What reason does Bendis have for hating Tomasi?Tomasi is angry at him because he was told he was gonna have a 100-issue Superman run that was cut short when DC gave Bendis the Superman titles.He and Johns allegedly denied Bendis from joining Ghost Machine despite some like Meltzer or Hitch pushing for it.
>>153372277>He and Johns allegedly denied Bendis from joining Ghost Machine despite some like Meltzer or Hitch pushing for it.Absolutely based.
>>153371652Basically a Green Lantern had his girlfriend brutally murdered off screen, done purely to motivate him into action to get revenge for her and set the story in motion. Simone found this offensive she considered it objectifying and demeaning to the character by making her solely motivation for Kyles story. Making her entire existence about her death, than what she did in life. So she coined the rule purely to keep it from happening again.
>>153372337>>153371652>>153371580>their entire existence is about their death off screen>its bad when it happens to womenthe troops don't protect freedoms but soldiers deaths are celebrated by nationalists. according to feminists, i guess women can't be martyrs... or somethingdead girlfriends being politically incorrect means gwen stacy is now politically incorrect
>>153372277If true, that seems unreasonable. 100 double-shipped issues is over 4 years of work. Unless it's creator-owner or there's a written contract, there's never any guarantee of staying on a title that long. Tom King also had a 100 issue "guarantee" for Batman that got knocked down to 85 (plus a maxi series and specials to fill it out) because sales slipped below what DC found acceptable.
>>153372419>100 double-shipped issues is over 4 years of work. Williamson did it with Flash. Funnily enough it was completely by accident because he asked to leave by #50, but DC asked him to stay because they couldn't find another writer.>Tom King also had a 100 issue "guarantee" for Batman that got knocked down to 85 (plus a maxi series and specials to fill it out) because sales slipped below what DC found acceptable.Tom King wasn't fired due to sales. He left himself because DiDio told him the remaining 15 issues would have to focus on Luke Fox becoming the 5G Batman and that he would kill Catwoman as part of the set-up.
>>153371139Really?
>>153371367Honestly given what happened I can't blame either of themChaykin was pissed over Simone, De Campi, and others basically instigating a performative mob against him and his Divided States of Histeria. Sure it died down but we saw an extreme version of this happen with Ed Piskor.Simone to her credit did try to reach out to mend fences afterwards and Chaykin brushed it off. But IIRC this happened after Piskor's death and also to Simone's credit she wasn't involved in that mob as far as we know. But there was a lot of overlap between some of the people calling for Piskor's head and some of the people calling for Chaykin's head years before so I also can't blame Chaykin for being skeptical.
>>153371425Yeah because Morrison, when he was breaking into mainstream comics, had a column making fun of other writers. There he accused Moore of ripping off a novel called Superfolks for Watchmen, Miracleman and his Superman stories.Moore didn't take it very well and told him to fuck off. Everything after that is Morrison changing his mind on Moore every week while Moore just reiterates he doesn't like Morrison.
>>153372737Gail is an fat evil hag. Anyone who trusts her deserves to get their head cut off by the mob. Chaykin is right to not trust her.I hope Marvel "wrongs" her like DC did and have to deal with her having a narcissistic meltdown again. But I suppose they have one of those retard handlers on her.
>>153372717I don't know if that poster is telling the truth, but that image is from 2014 or before, meaning it predated Rebirth and also the Bendis era of DCI don't think Johns had any problem over Scott Lang after he left Marvel, but I could see him having a problem with what Bendis did post-Rebirth unless something comes up saying otherwise
>>153370953Rick Remender with Hickman because Marvel had promised him Uncanny Avengers would be the main Avengers book going forward only to end up playing second fiddle to Avengers/New Avengers.
>>153371753>Uncle Ben for exampleDon't try to argue that. They literally say it doesn't count because it only applies to women.
>>153372848What's her beef with DC?
>>153373221I think he's referring to the time Gail was going to be removed from Batgirl
>>153373214Jason Todd then
>>153373221She got fired from Batgirl early on and threw a narcissistic meltdown until they sucked her off to get the 'you're sexist for firing a woman for poor work' crowd off their back. Anyone who hires her after that deserves the shit she brings to them.
>>153373062Also Bendis with Remender due to that "Call me Alex" speech
>>153373243Hard to believe that was over a decade now
>>153373251Closeted trans queen
>153373660And yet left-wingers, no matter how extreme, can flap their gums until they die and barely ever get retribution for it. Strange how that works, isn’t it?
>>153371520>after Millar called out how certain very talented writers and artists have been blacklisted from Marvel and DC over their right wing politics (eg. Chuck Dixon, Bill Willingham, Ethan Van Schriever, Mike S Miller)Lol that just happens because they don't know when to shut up. Or when to stop cutting off the heads of Rose Rico's action figurines in the case of Van Sciver. If your reaction to Tim Drake being gay is to trashtalk DC, or to declare Fables as public domain, don't expect to get work there.Everybody knows Jeremy Adams is MAGA for instance, but he keeps getting work for DC. As well as Otto Schmidt who drew Putin propaganda comics. Of course the industry heavily leans left-wing (as all creative industries do) but it tolerates right-wingers when they aren't being annoying about it.
>>153373337>and one day he saw a rabbi walking across the street and he made the worst anti-semitic comment...ever.Damn, what do you guys think he said?
>>153373660>Everybody knows Jeremy Adams is MAGA for instance, but he keeps getting work for DC.I have doubts given that he wrote Soul of the Dragon with an angry feminist line from Lady Shiva coming out of nowhere at the end.>The industry tolerates right-wingers when they aren't being annoying about it.You can be as loudly left-wing as you want (though there are limits as that Red Hood writer found out) but right-wingers can only be seen and not heard.
>>153373715Where's the proof that Adams is a Republican?
>>153373752>I have doubts given that he wrote Soul of the Dragon with an angry feminist line from Lady Shiva coming out of nowhere at the end.Because everything every character says is endorsed by the writer.
>>153371139You know I can really just see Bendis entering a room and loudly announcing what characters he wants to kill
>>153373860He could have written a line that made sense within the context of the story and not one that came across as feminist signaling that took me out of it.
>>153373752>he wrote Soul of the Dragon with an angry feminist line from Lady Shiva coming out of nowhere at the end.And that would be? Because all I remember is two foxy babes sword fighting
>>153373894The Bendis special.>I remember a story that - bizarrely enough - Bendis told around ten or so years ago, back when Editors were still willing to say no to him and he seemed willing to listen.>He was writing Daredevil at the time, and was writing a story which would see the original White Tiger killed off ("fridged", as they say) in order to advance another story. Joe Quesada saw the script and sat Bendis down to talk to him about this.>The jist of what he had to say was something like this: "Hey, how would you like it if I were to call Kurt Busiek right this minute and ask him if it would benefit one of his stories to kill off Jessica Jones in one of his books? You wouldn't like it? Well guess what? Nobody else would either. So you call George Perez and you get his fucking blessing before I'm giving you the green light to kill off the character he created." (Bill Mantlo was the writer who created the character, but presumably by that point his brain damage would have made a similar conversation with him meaningless)>At that time, Bendis related this story as a sobering lesson about respecting the creation of his fellow creators, but sadly it seems like he internalized none of that lesson and no editor since Quesada has had the juice to have the same sort of conversation with him.
>>153374087>I've had enough of men telling me what I should and shouldn't do.At no point in the movie did anyone ever order her around. She was the best student. She was a crime boss that even Batman was afraid of facing ("I'm... working up to it."). They were trying to spare her from their shared fate of having to fight demons for all eternity, and her response was to mouth off.
>>153374118>but sadly it seems like he internalized none of that lesson and no editor since Quesada has had the juice to have the same sort of conversation with him.Eh, Bendis was a lot more spiteful early on imo. Even the modern stuff people rage about like Jon Kent's age-up to me seem more editorially-driven.
>>153374224Oh. You're an idiot. My mistake.
>>153376161Bot answer
>>153372812Moore has a real grudge against chaos magicians and has been equating them to rapists for years. Morrison famously practices chaos magic and claims to have used it to get with his wife.
>>153373221Nothing lmfao. She was just mad that she got fired from Batgirl (writers don't like losing their jobs, shocker) but it's all good now. She defended DiDio from raging fans a bunch of times.
>>153376427Are there any other mainstream industries where two hugely prominent figures can hate each other with the passion of a thousand suns purely over which type of esoteric wizard shit they’re practicingSerious question
>>153373337Kitty Pryde you've said slurs several times, get the fuck over yourself or cry me a river with your typical X-Men victim complex
>>153378990It happens in the tech industry too but they're much better at keeping it under wraps.
>>153372812>. There he accused Moore of ripping off a novel called Superfolks for Watchmen, Miracleman and his Superman stories.is that even in question? I like Moore but he does take a lot from that book.
Simone getting fired from Batgirl was a controversy because she found out when everyone else did when solicits came out and she wasn't on the next issue.
>>153378990Plumbers
>>153379450You're misremembering, she flipped out because they fired her "via email." https://www.wired.com/2012/12/gail-simone-off-batgirl/
>>153371963I'm still hoping that the current Superboy thing isn't a fake out just so there is no lasting legacy of the Bendis run. I'm sure there will be a calamity that kills off the United Planets someday.
>>153370953Didn't Frank Cho have a public fight with another Marvel artist?
>>153379563Robbi Rodriguez, yeah. And Greg Rucka passive aggressively drove Cho off of doing variant covers for Wonder Woman.
>>153370953Largely forgotten today, but John Byrne and Jack Kirby had a running feud in the '80s that culminated in Byrne writing a story where a character based on Kirby's wife got raped.
>>153379621>Robbi Rodriguez, yeahThat was mostly Robbi being garbage. Can't believe that subhuman is still getting work
>>153379487Motherfuckers are all "this could have been an email" until it is an email.
>>153377663>She defended DiDio from raging fans a bunch of times.To be fair, the whole world seems to be convinced that Didio is anti-wheelchair even though he's pro-wheelchair (his sister is in one) and he just had to parrot the company line after he was overruled on the wheelchair debate.
>>153371600Issue 88.Written by Gail Simone, incidentally.
>>153379621Rucka seems like he has issues with a lot of people, he recently started bitching about Johns and Robinson.
>>153373715That wasn't why Bill Willingham declared Fables public domain.
>>153372419Yeah, but Tomasi was a company man and helped deliver quality writing and editorial work for DC. The most they could do was let the man get his hundred issues.
>>153373715However you see things, it's indisputable that a double standard exists, and that progressives wouldn't accept the situation if they were on the other side of it. So it would be foolish to expect conservatives not to take the actions their opponents would take in their position.
>>153370953Ethan Van Sciver and a crap ton of other peopleDude really burnt a lot of bridges even amongst his side
>>153374118I can never find it in my mounds of files, but there was an old pic I saved where Bendis confessing in an interview or letters column that he recognized he had a penchant for being impulsively contemptuous when fans of an Avengers team pre-emptively sent requests for him not to humiliate and kill them off, he was confused since he had no intention to at the time and even conceded to try to avoid it...as I recall he later did it anyway hence the confession.
>>153380456The fact people even then could recognise what a loathsome cocksucker Bendis was when it came to handling any characters says it all really
>>153376110>>153376161
>>153379457Kek, underrated
>>153373337>You're Jewish?KEK
>>153370953Brad from Despicable me and Mike Tyson Mysteries
Grant and Mark are natural enemies. Like Englishmen and Scots. Or Welshmen and Scots. Or Japanese and Scots. Or Scots and other Scots. Damned Scots! They ruined Scotland! And being such a contentious people, it's no surprise that two of them, like Grant and Mark, would have beef.
>>153370953jesus fucking christ just find a better scan next time, whatever ai you're upscaling with is dogshit
>>153373214Uncle Ben died as a lesson Peter needed to learn.Gwen Stacy dying was a motivator that only happened because the writers and editorial couldn't figure out what to do with her so they killed her instead of just writing her out of the story. And since then she's been glazed to all fuck as potential love interest/wife.God I hate Gwen Stacy so fucking much.
>>153372812Morrison was a prick but Moore also got mad because>Morrison was a rich boy while he was a worker class >Moore sorta got mad because some editor likes some Miracleman Jr idea the guy who shit on him had.
>>153372277>>153372419Rebirth superman needed some long run, like byrne Who has like 80 issues between all the minis and ongoingBoth Batman and Flash has one (Williamson by pure luck), Venditti GL was also long, Abnett Aquaman was also sorta long.Diddio and Berganza were a retard, he should have put Tomassi on Action comics to focus on the Kent family and Bendis in Superman, instead Double shopping Bendis Superman.DC is getting It , and that's why Slott's Superman was a third book while Williamson book is more Batman TAS like and Waid is more Silver Age ish
>>153383811Why you post the same image in this thread and in another thread 2 hours prior >>153383014?It's not even a picture of Mike Tyson, you lousy namefag. I thought you were banned two weeks ago.
>>153371580Never got that.Priest killing John wife was a better example than Kyle's girlfriend Death.Kyle one shown how dumb was the Hero and how hard was the superhero Life.John one was the writer using a woman because was scared to kill a black character
>>153371520Millar is a piece of shit that would sell all of those guys for a netflix contract.I sorta give Waid a pass that is now less retarded since he left Marvel, probably his family and the DC editor told him if he Chimp out he can't write Superman or maybe anothers character in the future(Aquaman and Green Lantern to brag about writing all the Big 6 sans Wondy )
>>153384769i just dropped the name, nermal
>>153384736I thought Morrison was also working class. Isn't the character of Dane from the Invisibles partially based on his childhood?
>>153371580This was so dumb to complain about and start a movement over. It's just an edgy death scene and another case of a superhero losing someone important to them. I doubt the people who complained were even fans of Alex.
>>153380326It was because the game wasn't just Zionist propaganda and he was mad about it.
>>153373337She neglects to mention the family name was originally Prydeman. She isn't just passing, she's "passing."
>>153373062Wasn't there an annual shitting on Hickman as well? It seemed completely one-sided given Hickman never acknowledged him.
Why are there two Willies
>>153371367How would a person go about not fucking hating Gail Simone? It seems impossible.
>>153370953Did you put this image through a vomit filter?
>>153387475One of those "I don't think about you at all" rivalries, yes.
>>153372812This is speculation, but Morrison apparently did more than that. At every turn, he seemed to either accuse Moore of plagiarism (did it with From Hell as well), claim Moore did something he had done first, and proclaim that he had several "Watchmen" level comics. Over and over. That's why Moore equated him to herpes.Morrison also has beef with Howard Chaykin, and apparently snubbed his Animal Man artist Chaz Truog at a signing.
>>153371367Simone is a terrible writer and a person. She's responsible for the term "fridging". The sweetest vengeance is that her own son hates comics and prefers manga.
>>153388085That's not vengeance. That's just proof some people have a brain because you'd have to be stupid and hate yourself to get into comics. Especially these days where it's so blatant that very, very few are capable of writing anything worth reading.
>>153388085She said her son got into both now
>>153370953Alan Moore is an egotistical, bridge-burning motherfucker, but he's still my favorite comics writer.He's has beef with a lot of the artists he worked with, and it seems to be always over money or business, usually over Moore not playing ball. I think Alan Davis hates him over refusing to work with Marvel over the Marvel UK stuff, which means Davis didn't get paid for a while. Moore cut off communication with Gibbons some time after the movie supposedly because DC was communicating with Moore through Gibbons, and Moore absolutely did not want to talk to DC. He cut it off with Bissette possibly over him divulging something about Moore that Moore didn't want out. Don Simpson publicly hates Moore for not finishing 1963 and for not putting his name on In Pictopia and Simpson wants his money. Had beef with Jim Lee for selling WildStorm to DC while he had this entire line of comics planned and he couldn'tsay no. Liefeld will never work with Moore again because Moore was difficult. There's also Geoff Johns, who he called a raccoon digging through his trash.The only people Moore was alright were Kevin O'Neill, who died, and possibly Eddie Campbell.
>>153388147Alan Moore is an overrated senior citizen who's works ruined the comic industry.
>>153373715>as all creative industries do)that's kinda disinquenuous as left-tards usually create cliques and remove / cancel anyone for wrongthink. it's not that right-tards are not creative, it's just that left-tards are very effective in blocking them.
>>153388180The industry ruined itself by being exploitative. Don't be a tool.
>>153387551One is his brother, who only appeared in that comic
>>153388114she's a fat liar
>>153372277>He and Johns allegedly denied Bendis from joining Ghost MachineAight time to pick up some of their titles.
>>153373337>HOW DARE HE TRY TO VIEW EVERYONE AS PEOPLE AND NOT PUT US ALL INTO LABELS AND BOXESThis is why nobody fucking likes the X-men
>>153372737>Ed Piskor.dude was a creep who needlessly killed himself
>>153388147Alan Moore hasn't released anything good in over 20 years and will complain about ownership while completely ignoring the fact that he's not, last I checked, the owner of Peter Pan or any of the characters in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
>>153388938And? All it just proved is that when it came down to it, the woke driving him to suicide were really no different from the Comicsgate people they claimed to be against.
>>153388994Not really, dude chose to kill himself he didn't have to do it all he had to do was not be a creep to teenagers lmao, he chose to duck responsibility for his creepy pedo shit
>>153373337What's the Alex speech?
>>153389268Alex says he'd rather not be labeled as purely a mutant and that you should just call him by his name. Like a human. The x-men, of course, being the professional victim for so long lot their damn minds.
>>153384025You Scots sure are a contentious people!
>>153388971>Alan Moore hasn't released anything good in over 20 yearsYou're thinking of Frank Miller. Providence and the Nemo Trilogy are great.
Is there a reason that the comic industry has (or had) a diverse range of politics while animation seems almost exclusively left-leaning?
>>153390713Animation has a much higher barrier of entry.
>>153390740It also demands insanity as a prerequisite for productivity.
>>153371139>when Bendis came to DC and wanted to use Stargirl in his Young Justice run he threatened to fire him>NOBODY fucks Stargirl but me!yeah that sounds like Geoff Johns
>>153373062all of these are pretty fair criticisms of Hickman's workdude couldn't write a check without sperging out about the fucking steampunk illuminati
>>153389330Very based, ty
>>153370953Morrison can't have real beef he's a vegan
>>153370953Morrison has beef with Millar. Millar probably can't remember what he did to piss off Morrison and probably never saw it as a slight.
>>153380362100 issues isn't the least you can do on one of the big 5 characters of comics. That's a very tall order
>>153384776I think the point was more that Kyle's girlfriend existed entirely to be expendable.Katma was at least her own character who's death was justifiably a reason to be upset aboutBut Kyle's girlfriend, if she ever was meant to be longterm, was pretty quickly brushed aside without much reason for the audience to care about her death other than her relation to Kyle. so her death comes off as empty shock rather than a character you're attached to being killed.
>>153392569>I think the point was more that Kyle's girlfriend existed entirely to be expendable.So was Uncle Ben, the Waynes, the entire planet of Krypton. Kyle learned a harsh lesson about being sloppy with his secret identity.
>>153392630there's a difference doing that at the start as part of the backstory versus doing it during the story plus the level of disrespect her dead body was given adds to it, Uncle Ben's body wasn't fuckin chucked in the garbage bin
>>153379637Which is this? Because didn't something similar lead to the issue where Superman and Big Barda are brainwashed into starring in a porno?
>>153388147According to everything I've read, *no one* knows what pissed him in such a way that 1963 never got finished. One day someone involved called and asked him about it and he was like "nope, I fucking hate all you people."
>>153392569A person who actually understands what the idea of "fridiging" is actually about? On 4chan? Well, I never.
>>153392630The difference is that those characters are basically backstory, they weren't briefly regular characters who existed simply to eventually be fodder. It's a telegraphed death. Making it a sexism thing makes it a loaded discussion, but it's just as hacky writing as the obvious partner death in a cop movie or killing the nice old person the main character is friends with to show the bad guy is really bad. These things can be done well, but are too often done for basic emotional pull.
>>153392829Those books yeah. Barda was based on Kirby's wife, Byrne wrote her getting brainwashed, raped by a villain then almost starring in a porno with Superman, because Kirby had previously drawn him as a minor villain described as having "no genitals and a removable spine" in Destroyer Duck, because in turn Byrne had called Kirby's attempt to sue Marvel to force them to retroactively change his contract "delusional".
>>153371580>painting the entire comic book industry as a misogynist boys club who love killing off female characters because they hate women.Remember feminists crying about pic-related?And when Hillary Clinton claimed video games are misogynistic because female NPCs sometimes get killed? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3GTJOZLaPYFeminists are fucking evil. They just hate men which is why they are all okay with violence except for the rare cases where the victim is a woman.
>>153393173So, Jack Kirby wrote a character based on his wife fucking a character based on Jim Steranko? That's fucking gay.
>>153393259>hating men is when people find it weird that you put up a billboard of a naked woman getting choked outhuh?
>>153392694>>153392947Uncle Ben wasn't part of the back story. He was the story. Kyle was "What if Spider-Man was Green Lantern" they just stretched out the origin a bit, no one was doing Amazing Fantasy #15 hyper-compression by the 90s.The fridge was pretty salacious, but it did succeed in its purpose of getting everyone's attention. This is the Kyle Rayner story people still talk about decades later unlike all the other non-fridge related stories that followed.>>153392924That's a revisionist take. Gail Simone just compiled an unscientific list of women who had been hurt in comics regardless of context https://web.archive.org/web/20240103102801/https://lby3.com/wir/index.html>This is a list I made when it occurred to me that it's not that healthy to be a female character in comics. I'm curious to find out if this list seems somewhat disproportionate, and if so, what it means, really.>These are superheroines who have been either depowered, raped, or cut up and stuck in the refrigerator. I know I missed a bunch. Some have been revived, even improved -- although the question remains as to why they were thrown in the wood chipper in the first place.>I know I missed a bunch -- I just don't know my comics deaths the way I should. I'm not editorializing -- I'm just curious to find out what you guys think it means, if anything.
>>153393307>hating men is when you cry about fictional female characters being treated the way fictional male characters always have beenyeah
>>153392890StrangeBrainParts covered the gist of it.Jim Lee heard Moore, Veitch, Totleben and Bissette were doing another nostalgia remix project like Supreme and Miracleman and wanted in.I can't recall the details, but he blindsided one of them at a convention to announce he'd do art for its annual, seemingly as a favor but obviously to get his name attached to what might become a seminal work.But eventually Jim Lee became late on art and skittish with communicating while getting involved with other things and taking a break from drawing, however Moore refused to simply cancel or find someone else.It's likely he was intentionally sitting quietly on making any decision or announcement so fans of 1963 would have to press the question, hoping eventually enough pressure find its way to Jim until he admitted his lapses and either publicly apologized and cancelled it or rushed out his side of things. Either way there'd be a humbling lesson.What happened though was in an article inquiring about the hurdles Bissette casually joked Moore's hard ass ways were at the center of the unspoken problem, likely just because he felt more comfortable namedropping a friend whose nature he knew better than a stranger. The thing is because Jim got no mention this offhand remark now became the only archived evidence then and now that the issue was the only person mentioned, Bissette had inadvertently let Jim get off on the record while placing culpa on Moore, so Moore called him and told him that privilege of friendship that led him to make the slip was void, then vowed to spitefully never speak about 1963 again, likely in response to no one speaking on his behalf. To be clear he didn't dissolve his name from it, like with Marvelman, he just refuses to talk. Which means legally it can't go forwards or back if he won't respond.And he hasn't, unless Jim clears it up Moore's likely taking the grudge to his grave.
>>153371580God you incel twerps are fucking pathetic. Grow a sack, you fucking nerd.
>>153371520Waid was Millar's editor and eventually ghostwriter for a few years after Morrison stopped "helping" Waid. Red Son reads exactly like Kingdom Come and not at all like Millar's other works. And Civil War is a retread of an event Waid wrote for !mpact Comics in the 90s, down to the leaders of the pro-reg and anti-reg movements (the !mpact characters were knockoff Marvel characters), just swapping the sides they took.Waid's bitter that his Cyrano act backfired, letting Millar leapfrog to a higher tax bracket despite writing shittier material, collecting checks for adaptations (needing heavy rewrites), and never returning the favor. Waid's a tantruming manchild but he is a better writer.
>>153392569>I think the point was more that Kyle's girlfriend existed entirely to be expendableWomen's deaths are used to evoke emotion because people care more about women dying. This is female privilege. Killing a man means nothing because feminism taught us that men's lives mean nothing. You think the feminist who wrote pic-related is going to be moved by a male character dying? They don't even give a shit about real men dying.they get more upset over a female character dying for the same reason feminists care more about IRL women dying: Female privilege. They think men are disposable.>>153393520>did you just say that you don't hate all men and don't think all men should die?>You need to MAN UP you pussy!typical feminist
>>153372561>Tom King wasn't fired due to sales. He left himself because DiDio told him the remaining 15 issues would have to focus on Luke Fox becoming the 5G Batman and that he would kill Catwoman as part of the set-up.Don't you EVER make me respect Tom King again
>>153393460>being treated the way fictional male characters always have beenI dunno, you don't see many billboards of people getting choked the fuck out. People usually agree it's weird regardless of gender, and especially if they're naked.Or are you having trouble discerning the difference between presenting something in advertising and presenting something in the media itself?
>>153385526Because Bendis, a completely secular Jew, is virtue signaling here while at the same time demonstrating he never read the Claremont run. Kitty's a nouveau riche JAP from Chicagoland who was immediately recognizable from her first appearance, her first arc was about discovering she belonged to a non-privileged group that HADN'T assimilated and WOULD be hated and feared for it.
>>153384820>I didn't read his statementDC reneged on their contractual obligations with Fables the way Comico had with Elementals and he did the same thing in retribution. If you want to make up retarded shit do it on your own time instead of spewing it here.
>>153393743>I'm a feminist simp who has trouble discerning the difference between being a simp and not being a simp
>>153393982Yeah, I dunno. That shit is pretty weird too, but you seem to be going off of a script rather than actually paying attention to what's being said, so I'll leave you to it.
>>153393743>People usually agree it's weird regardless of genderSource?
>>153394045>but you seem to be paying attention instead of being an NPC
>>153388147>Don Simpson publicly hates Moore for not finishing 1963 and for not putting his name on In Pictopia and Simpson wants his money.Simpson was credited for his art in Pictopia. Mike Kazaleh, who drew the anthro characters in it, was not. I have my doubts about Don Simpson needing credit considering Charles Burns' "Black Hole" has pages where it's absurdly obvious Simpson filled in drawing one of the characters but it's never credited.
>>153388971>Alan Moore hasn't released anything good in over 20 years and will complain about ownership while completely ignoring the fact that he's not, last I checked, the owner of Peter Pan or any of the characters in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.Moore writing those characters isn't stopping anyone else from producing material with them. Moore probably isn't as darling with the Watchmen characters as you might imagine. His interest was in Watchmen, the book itself, as something he owned. If he could have that copyright, I could see him being flexible with how the characters were portrayed or used, so long as they were through him. In fact I could see him pull a Willingham and declare the characters themselves would be PD(even if the book wasn't)Moore isn't fighting his deal. He never attempted to get DC to renegotiate. He simply decided not to work for them. He was effectively promised one thing by people he came to respect and trust and whether it be higher ups superseding them or what, he found he could not trust such a company anymore. DC decided that Watchmen was too big to risk letting Moore do what he wanted with it and didn't ask him and flexed their ability to do with it as they pleased. Irony is, in a world where DC consulted Moore about the copyright after the initial release and worked out a deal where they'd publish it while he could keepthe rights with the option to take the book where he pleased, he'd probably have been fine with it and continued to work with DC. Instead,they chose to hold onto it and run and lost any future work by himGaiman benefited massively from this because he got a super sweetheart deal from DC after then worried they'd have the same situation on their hands. Ironically, now they're probably screwed as Gaiman's fandom probably dies on the vine with his existing fans(who haven't turned their back on him)
>>153393307>weirdThis has become your generation's magic word for "bad but I can't back up why it's bad"
>>153393743>and especially if they're naked.Literally no one told Mystique she had to prance around in her birthday suit except some film producers in 2000. For fucks sake Rebecca Romijn thought she was going to wear the outfit in the comic books and really wanted the skull belt.
>>153372337>We should celebrate the lives of women murdered and not seek justice, else it's misogynyWomen are deranged.>>153393259>because female NPCs sometimes get killed?It's a good thing politicians would never say women being far under 50% of murder victims and homelessness means society is misogynistic. That'd be really weird if they did!>>153393743>regardless of gender>are you having trouble discerning the differenceIt was done at the beck and call of women, it was not a "regardless" manoeuvre. You are struggling to discern the difference between equality and feminism.
>>153394324>Moore probably isn't as darling with the Watchmen characters as you might imagine.They were literally Charlton characters DC had just purchased the same way DC acquired Doll Man, Plastic Man, Uncle Sam et al from Quality 20 years prior. His assignment was to write a story introducing the stable to the DCU but halfway through he called his editor Len Wein in a panic realizing he was killing and raping them; Wein said "rename them and keep it out of DC continuity."Meanwhile, DC realizing they'd have to pay all the upcoming writers of the new titles to do what Moore had already been paid handsomely for (but fucked up), saw to it the "rights revert to you once out of print" clause never took place.
>>153379421Yeah, basically this. You'd be amazed how many tech guys in the upper echelons practice magick - if you ever want to become a major success in the IT world, find an esoteric practice and stick with it. Trust me, it pays off.
>>153394625Tell us more things you pulled out of your ass
>>153393982>Domestic violenceI don't recall Mystique and Apocalypse being an item, these are open foes in battle
>>153394621Yes we all know that. But ultimately what Moore wrote was transformative enough to make them effectively new characters. And he gave them a work that's been worth thousands of times more than what a Charlton characters introduced in post-crisis would've been. DC recognized this and chose to keep it in print. The idea that they chose to waste their money keeping a book in print simply to keep other writers from getting the same deal is retarded. Clearly they recognized the worth of keeping it in print since it was almost immediately considered a great work. If DC thought it was a bad deal they'd bury it. They don't "have" to pay writers what Moore got
>>153394654He's a magician, so a rabbit
>>153394621>Meanwhile, DC realizing they'd have to pay all the upcoming writers of the new titles to do what Moore had already been paid handsomely for (but fucked up), saw to it the "rights revert to you once out of print" clause never took place.How?
>>153394843It’s complete nonsense is how, anon.
>>153394654Magick is everywhere, dude. You tap into it every single day without realizing that's what you're doing. Learning to harness it and guide it for your purposes is not some fantastical impossibility that only exists in stories.>>153394757Kek
>>153388085>>153388108>The sweetest vengeance is that her own son hates comics and prefers comics.Uh, yeah, huge win.
>>153371139>It's because Morrison ghost-wrote an issue of The Authority (it's very obvious when you read it) and Millar got pissy when Morrison publicly said it.Issue #28, right? There is no way Millar came up with the phrase "the world's first memetically-engineered all purpose pop-god". I'm not sure who he was trying to kid.
>>153394843IIRC, turning it into a “Print on Demand” Graphic novel meant that it never legally “went out of print.” I might be mistaken though.
>>153395767You are mistaken, because if they were using print on demand the cost and subsequently the cover price would be a LOT higher.
>>153395175>MagickYou must be 18+ to post here
>>153395175didn’t realize we had the other type of wizard around these partssurely you’re no tantric expert
>>153395802I likely am, but I do recall making it into a graphic novel was involved somehow.
>>153395304Yeah, that's Morrison. Didn't even try to dumb himself down to at least seem like Millar.
>>153394297That's not what I meant. Don Simpson wanted Moore's name on the cover, because his name sells.
>>153391117>can't write a check without a mystery boxi'm stealing that one, that's nice
>>153393652>Killing a man means nothing because feminism taught us that men's lives mean nothing.That's not true, mens lives have meant nothing (or, alternatively, only meant something in courageous sacrifice) long before feminism was a thing.
>>153395304I need to read that issue again.NATO strikes back and that is the effective end of The Authority.Revolution almost got them back but when they introduced StormWatch lore I drop it.
>>153373337Kitty is probably the worst possible character to do a rebuttal of the Alex thing with, because nobody ever even uses her dumb mutant codename.
>>153387661Pretty sure Simone wrote the comic in Op's pic. That's one thing that makes me not hate her.
>>153395304Now let's find the Invisibles issue ghost-written by Millar
>>153371367>Gail Simone recalls awkward real-life encounters with Chaykin and years of online abuse and insults.>Chaykin remains unapologetic for his actions, holding grudges and lashing out at comics peers publicly.Men hate being held accountable
>>153395937NTA but MIT is mostly chaos types (discordians, subgenii, etc) plus a quieter underground of quasi-masonic gnostics. Left coasties tend to be esoteric buddhists, with some older ISKONites in the mix. Mixed in with both you'll also find heterodox taoist mystics (often practicing tao and something else at the same time) and the occasional odd kabbalist or old school thelemite.
>>153387661by being moderately well-adjusted?
>>153373337This whole speech was something that totally happened to Bendis when he was at school, wasn't it?
>>153389330The insane thing is it's virtually the same speech as Peter David wrote for Strong Guy back in an early 1990s issue of X-Factor, but identity politics have gotten so insane since then that something meant to be positive back in 1991 made people go crazy in 2013, to the point that Bendis and Peter David himself were writing rebuttals to it in their books.
>>153396427Apparently Red Son's ending was also Morrison's idea. Why did he ghostwrite for Millar so much? Was it common in comics but we only talk about these two because of their conflict?
>>153392694>there's a difference doing that at the start as part of the backstory versus doing it during the storyThis was about the 4th or 5th issue of Green Lantern with Kyle as the lead, it's basically the finale of his opening story arc, where he learns the harsh lessons of the life he's gotten himself into.It's no different than say, Ultimate Spider-Man doing the origin over a 6 issue arc and Uncle Ben doesn't die until several issues in.>plus the level of disrespect her dead body was given adds to itIt was the 90s, it was a different time. For better or worse, they were trying to be deliberately shocking to get noticed at a time when DC were having to compete not just with Marvel, but with Image being the new hotness.She was basically a character who was intended to die early on, but readers didn't realize this, and it happened in a really awful way to make it shock readers and hurt them more. Keep in mind this is also the same era when Waid was writing Justice League and asked his editor which character's death would hurt the readers most, which is what led to Ice getting killed.
>>153393618Waid also had a years-long grudge against Scott Lobdell and Bob Harras over his brief time working on X-Men. Waid wanted Onslaught to be a Professor X heel turn for real, and he'd just be a villain from then on, Lobdell fought against it because Xavier was his favorite character to write, and Harras made the call to side with Lobdell and prioritize the long-term viability of the character, and Waid would just take shots at one or both in interviews for years afterwards.There was also some other Marvel editor who got fired when Quesada took over and Waid celebrated him getting fired. And then there's his history at Crossgen.
>>153400780Millar also apparently used to be Morrison’s proxy for meetings. Chuck Dixon mentioned going to the DC One Million writer/editor conference and Morrison was silent and withdrawn and they were instructed to field any discussion with Morrison through Millar, who was happy-go-lucky and chipper and found nothing weird about the situation. I think both of them found Millar to be a good agreeable vessel for which to work through without realizing he had greater ambitions himself. Both Morrison and Waid are basically autists while Millar is almost a normie and seems to be able to talk to people better.
>>153371753Yeah, also Gwen's father before her.
Austen did nothing wrong.
>>153400873How much of it is being an autist and how much of it is 'comic book writer with rockstar ego'. There are accounts from Morrison's time working on X-Men and on Batman from people working on other titles in the franchise who were just unable to get answers out of him about what he was planning or being unable to communicate with him at all, and then suddenly he does something that's going to affect their books and they don't know about it until the issue is released. And then there's the whole Countdown situation, where the writers were working to Morrison's early notes for Final Crisis and he never saw fit to tell anyone else at DC how his plans had changed, while fandom blamed the other writers and editorial for producing books that didn't lead into Final Crisis properly.
All these so-called feuds between creators are just fans huffing bullshit. Many writers are indeed insufferable cunts who people hate, but that doesn't make the invented drama about them any less reality TV for nerds.
>>153387551M A K E W A Y F O R W I L L I E
>>153399480Oh, you mean like not caring about comics so you have no idea who Gail Simone even is? Fair point, actually.
>>153371580>she ruined comics foreverthat's retarded and your brain has been poisoned by culture war bullshit. thread ruined
>>153400918He fucked over Hank Pym with malicious character assassination/slander in his dog shit Avengers run, he did plenty wrong.
>>153387551
>>153402061not at all.I know who she is, and there's nothing particularly wrong with liking or disliking her, but just about everyone I've seen who's hated her has come across as unhinged
>>153388147>Liefeld will never work with Moore again because Moore was difficult. oh that's a shame, his run on supreme was really good and also a neat refutation to the idea moore hates superheroes
>>153399345are you implying Silicon Valley is a magical hellpit
>>153390713i guess cause comics doesn't have a strict region to go to for schooling meanwhile animation is pretty limited to very liberal colleges/areas
>>153400780Millar was Morrison's discovery, they were both from Scotland, good friends, until Millar stepped on Grant on his way up and didn't bother to give him a helping hand up to return the favor.
