What is it about indie animation that causes so much seethe, not just in normie circles but here too?
>>153393820They remind me of my failures.
>>153393820Why do indie shitters get so easily butt hurt when people question the quality of their shows?Fuckers all across social media glaze these shows, and they still have a hissy fit over a few people saying mean thing.
>>1533938201. Shills/corpo drones2. Crabs3. "Culture warriors"
>>153393887Imagine seething this hard over dumb internet cartoonsOP is right
>>153393875I honestly hate when media and especially Hollywood try to portray the working class. It downright pisses me off seeing overprivileged actors, directors and artists try to "relate" to my plight while they make more money than I'll ever see. Both Hollywood and indie are cancers.
>>153393820Only weird and sad adults care. The old school types that used to create art are gone. Now chuds and trannies.
>>153393936>S-S-SEETHING!Lol, insecure little faggot.
>>153393964Nice seething
>>153393820i stay by the sidelines because i dont have a passion for glitch stuff, but the majority of you seem to be celeb worshippers that got suckered into believing that merchandise is somehow part of the experience of watching TADC one of which is sadly a natural reoccurring thing in the human condition so i cant exactly blame you all there, but the other is something i believed that only worked on preteen children, yet we have fully grown people losing their fucking minds over plush toys. its about as fucking corporate as Pokemon and so i think that conflicts with this supposed indie nature that TADC is supposed to embody
>>153394025How else is the show supposed to get funded. Don't have budget figures for TADC but Murder Drones was said to cost 250-300k an episode. Gotta pay it off somehow
>>153393964I genuinely do wonder how people stomach watching media when the economy just keeps getting worse. I can't even afford food these days and I'm supposed to care about the latest slop?Even those "eat le rich" faggots succumb to celeb worship, even if said celebs are also billionaires. The ride never ends
>>153394054The show being funded through merch is not the same as how people react to having merchandise to buy.
>>153394093You are supposed to not be a little bitch.
>>153393820Unironic omnipresent longing and nostalgia for the days where cartoon culture was centered around the Big 3 and their was a decent amount of Action and later Lore Show coming out.2011-2015-2016 was unironically the golden age of /co/ for most of the people still here and so accepting Indie in its half formed state means letting go of that past ever returning.
>>153394118>Just forget about having an apartment or affording food, bro>Forget about the petrodollar collapsing and the mass starvation that is underway, bro
>>153393964Goose was literaly a McDonalds Manager before getting big online.
>>153394173NTA but so? That shit won't happen to me, my videos only get 1k views. God, I wish I were these people so fucking bad. I can't tell myself "it is what it is" anymore, every night I cry myself to sleep in my shitbox car
>>153394171It actually is shocking how unprepared the average american adult is. A lot of people flat out believe that nothing bad will happen and the status quo will continue forever. Everyone should have been stocking up on food yesterday
>>153394208Keep seething
>>153394208I was mostly responding to the idea that it was a depiction of working by Hollywood types when the actual depiction is based off the experience of someone who was actually in the trenches, down to portraying a character shut down in their shitbox car after their shift was over.As for the talk fo your work, that sucks anon, the best advice I can give is to unironically trend chase by pumping out quick shit for whatever the popular thing as the moment is, and then once you have cultivated an audience pivot into your own shit.Almost every creator who gets big online nowadays was either grinding in a specialized niche for like 10 years or trend chasing for 2-5.
>>153394296Thanks
>>153393820Indie cartoons for boys gets a lot of seethe on /co/mblrIndie cartoons for girls gets very little beyond absolute praise, "I wanna fuck the girl/transboy!" and shipping>>153393964It did ring hollowThey got the words right, "If you've got time the lean, you've got time to clean!" but nothing you could emotionally connect to>>153394025>i think that conflicts with this supposed indie nature that TADC is supposed to embodyIt's funny how "indie", in a purist definition, would mean big companies are indie (because they're independent) whilst anyone who posts a cartoon on youtube or newgrounds isn't (because that's dependency on a publisher)But in reality everyone silently agrees it's supposed to mean "A single creator, or auteur, with no money, making something, that I enjoyed for free or paid very little money for, and I think it's the best thing ever because it's the first time I've encountered the concept presented within!"
>>153394337>transboyNot a thing
>>153394348Jax
>>153394354Nope, stop being obsessed with trannies
>>153393964???All indie cartoonists are, if not currently, a year or two tops away from working at McSpudsys.
>>153394393then what the fuck is goose doing where that could ever be a possibility after making the biggest indie cartoon everspending money for discord grooming servers or is GLITCH corporate as hell and depriving money
>>153394393Hell, a lot of them aside from the heavy hitters probably have day jobsI know the non creators definitely are, indie pays like shit. Unless Goose gets a bunch of money from the merch then who knows. I do wonder if Glitch owns their shows or if the creators do.
>>153394411I mean, even the Skibidi Toilet creator is allegedly broke despite signing deals with Michael Bay
>>153394465Boom deserved to get fucked over for signing his shit away. Imagine creating one of the biggest hits in the indie animation scene just to throw it all away like that.
>>153394368Anon, the people who just want to fuck the characters are the same people who call him transYou do realize you're acting like I'm the one saying it
>>153394025>>153394337Its a similar situation to using Indie with video games.There used to be a secondary class of small companies making moderately sized works to fill space between the big studios works.Then over the 2000s and early 2010s those smaller companies either died or were absorbed into the larger ones, leaving a paradigm where everything made was either Indie in that the primary creative either by themselves or with a sub-5 people group of friends, or by a big company or ostensible subsidiary.However those big companies are now floundering freeing up market space, and the smaller Indie teams of 2010s are starting to grow into a new form of mid sized studios.But the cultural understanding, both in terms of language and audience comfort with said studios and their place in their industries were lost and so that needs to be rebuilt as these studios mature.
>>153394454>pngHow many writers does this show have?How many writers are there working on EVERY internet show?Maybe that's why all these cartoons feel the same
>>153393875Unironically this. If some dude gets to direct a Disney animated movie or make a Netflix animated series, he probably got there by being a trust fund baby living in SoCal and getting the position thanks to the connections he had from either his parents or the people he met in film school. As such, it's not comparable to my life, since I'll never have that opportunity, and I am fine with that.But when an indie animator makes it big, it's upsetting because they started in the same place as me. They laughed at the same retarded jokes, hung out in the same online circles, didn't have the same connections those rich Hollywood assholes had, and they found overwhelming success that I did not. And whether it was from them working hard or being stupidly lucky or whatever, it still hits hard because it reminds me that I have accomplished nothing despite being on the same track as them. So if they dare try and pretend like they're the same person they were before they made it big by making those jokes or interacting in those same circles, I just feel such rage because they don't belong there anymore, and their presence is just rubbing my failures in my face. Therefore, I mock them and tear apart as much of their work as I can, because seeing them suffer and trying to make them fall from grace as hard as possible makes me feel better.
>>153394528I think he wrote some songs for TADC and possibly the merch skits.He cowrote Hazbin's pilot
>>153394465So I assume that Youtube never really paid out for that guy for a good while of time, and he thought that getting a deal after all that time would finally secure money for him before getting btfo by the corporate.TADC always had the merch angle stuff ready in comparison, no? Yeah people call GLITCH and TADC indie but what indication has there ever been that they could falter out of line if they fuck one thing up? Just their word? I feel like a lot of people put their faith in words without evidence on what is an unprecedented event in animation.
>>153394538If it makes you feel better, Goose is probably going back to square one after thisUnless he makes something else but I don't know if it'd have the same audience pull
>>153394538You should of made Remixes of Undertale music circa 2015 with appealing thumbnails/visualizers you drew yourself.Honestly that's the skill issue.
>>153394538Sadly, I honestly believe that newcomers have missed the boat. If you weren't making stuff since 2014, you probably will never make it big. The landscape has changed too much.
>>153394564>If it makes you feel better, Goose is probably going back to square one after thisWith how much money?
>>153394454Why does an indie cartoon need writers in the first place? Does that not defeat the point?
>>153394608No clue, I don't think we've ever heard about how much Glitch creators are paidThat said, he might get a nice paycheck from the last act theatrical release
>>153394639Because people want their indie cartoons to be comparable to studio productions. Plus, people are already bitching about indie dialogue (this is really a problem with the actors)
>>153394604I believe it comes in waves. If a newbie animator starts their craft right now and doesn't let up, in a decade or so there will be another animation boom they can capitalize on. Finding the motivation to keep going when it feels like everyone is ignoring your work is another story entirely, though.
>>153394514>and the smaller Indie teams of 2010s are starting to grow into a new form of mid sized studios.All 2010s indies seem to have died due to making flops or never made a second game (it's always a team of university friends of which there are 2 programmers, 5 artists and 7 managers, with a professional looking corporate memphis website no less)There's such a flood of garbage now by literally who "Hi I'm a [european] developer, this is my first game, I'm state funded, buy pls :3" companies that sprang up a year or two before their first and what will be their only release
>>153394639Hollow Knight is like four people, barring the kickstarter funders.Where do lines get drawn on what is indie or not? Some things are more indie than others?
>>153394608Before or after Californian rent?
>>153394715Please tell me Goose doesn't live in fucking California.Don't these indie toons operate mostly remote?
>>153394668>Plus, people are already bitching about indie dialogue>get a writer to have good dialogue>still comes out clunky and predictableI guess TADC is maknig too much money to care
>>153394715It'd be fucking stupid to live in Commiefornia so I'd like to say before.
>>153394054>How else is the show supposed to get fundedBeing good enough to attract conventional funding rather than kidults
>>153394681Sounds like the Canadian productions of yesteryear
>>153394777Anything short of A-List celebs will never be worth conventional funding
>>153394777>Conventional FundingDo you mean the explicit toy market which is now dead, the television advertiser slots which have been drastically devalued, or the strategy of serving as a bait show for streaming services which also has failed?
>>153394847>-List celebsIf you mean voice actors you've overestimated what they cost
>>153394538
>>153394863I mean Amazon or Netflix or other streaming service This is the part where you bitch and cry about no level playing field like it were owed to you
>>153394054Don't call is indie then if the fucking Australian government is funding it
I would think the benefit of being indie is that everyone involved is getting a fair share for their work in proportion to the work they bring to the table.
>>153393875>Ugh, I just FUCKING HATE being a god damn BURGER!
>>153394885So the last one, got it.I'm not going to complain about a fair playing field but I will say that if you want to play by those rules animation outside of film would be downgraded drastically, since again the big animation push at places like Netflix failed.So frankly you complaining about survival coming at the detriment to your own taste and sensibilities is something I simply will not give a shit about after I post this.The old ways are dying and the new ones are being built.
>>153394143This is true. Idk maybe indie cartoons will actually become good soon and I'll start accepting the new entertainment paradigm but for now I'm still pessimistic
>>153394681>I'm state funded, buy plsThis is precisely why I detest most modern "indie" devs, they already start from a privileged position where if they fail oopsy-doops, they can still live a comfortable life. Meanwhile you get guys like ConcernedApe who made Stardew Valley while working a shit job at a theater and was on the edge of financially-induced depression where he would have basically killed himself if his game flopped. You have the Cuphead devs who leveraged all their assets just to pay for the game in the hopes that it would succeed, risking total bankruptcy in the process. You have Team Meat, who (at the time) were living off ramen and pulling near constant overnights to hit the deadline for the Xbox Game Feast for the added visibility it would bring to ensure they made SOME money from their game. Even devs who got early success via Kickstarter were still betting their futures as devs on the campaign being successful - if any one of them failed, that would have been it for the game.
>>153394906Glitch lost their aussie funding because they made Murder Drones since Liam isn't australian.So at best you can say they used aussie funding as a startup method, but we are years past that now.
>>153395096it's almost sounds as if they labeled themselves as indie after making a shitty financial decision with a govt entity
>>153395072>The old ways are dying and the new ones are being built.Yes The vanguard is claw machine plushies
>>153395093>guys like ConcernedApe who made Stardew Valley while working a shit job at a theater and was on the edge of financially-induced depression where he would have basically killed himself if his game flopped.Maybe next time he could make a game with a font that doesn't cause your eyes to bleed
>>153393964Imagine being this much of a faggot lmao can't be me.
>>153395136Is their an official designation for when something is initially state supported and then goes independent later?Because if not then the best designator is just indie.
>>153393820Indie is severely lacking in content for young, straight male audiences. And no, just having cute girls isn’t enough
>>153395221See >>153394337>But in reality everyone silently agrees it's supposed to meanIndie is a holy status that once tainted means you're a corpo, forever, unless we all took amnesia pills and forgot they used to be state funded
>>153395221Not really, but did they ever really scrub off the effects from being partnered with the government?A helping hand of that caliber probably had a huge effect in keeping them afloat even if it iss minuscule in comparison to what they are now.
>>153395240>And no, just having cute girls isn’t enoughSome might say having girl characters is the problem
>>153395240What about cute girls and guns?
>>153395240I have personally held that the moment a indie animator gets inspired by Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser and makes something along those lines of decent quality, boys ages 8-18 would champion it.
>>153395096So they were never indie in the first place and still contract multiple employees to produce their shit, with tons of merch and tie in brand stuff? Doesn’t sound indie to me
>>153395267If this was the case than almost no live action film outside of student films would be considered indie.>>153395277I'm not even sure how you scrub that off?They had the funding for their first two shows and both of those shows are now over and they are no longer used in most if any marketing or merchandise so I would say its basically gone.Its not like made Wally the Wombat and had that as their mascot to this day or anything.
>>153394093I mean you can watch digital circus FOR FREE. If anything the economy getting worse makes shows like this more appealing since don't have to worry about the cost factor at all. Same reason so many kids and 3rd worlders are into it. There's like no barrier of entry. It's a weird thing to be confused about desu
>>153395402>I'm not even sure how you scrub that off?You really can't unless you do a full clean sweep.I'm not trying to chastise them for getting help because the world is harsh, but a little honesty seemed to not have been Glitch's best move.
>>153393820If I were to guess, I believe it's due to the quality of most of these indie toons online. Some being just purely mediocre at worst and the one that sticks out as being very mediocre is Wastelandia (more on this particular pilot in a bit). It's very indistinguishable from the animations from major studios, people hated them for various reasons and it seems to now bleed over to the small indie studios as far as most of these cartoons go, in /co/'s case most of the queer faggot shit is from major studios makes up a good portion of indie pilots, the writing in most of these pilots are either hit or miss or just straight up garbage which brings me to Wastelandia. The characters are written the exact fucking same: depressed miserable zoomers that hate their lives or just exhausted. They all have a shitty day, and that's it. Hardly any distinguishable personalities, I mean I guess the dog girl was the calm and collected one? It's just so shittly written that you'd forget it seconds later. For a good quarter of the show, it relies on internet humor that will be dated very quickly. It's basically something a 14-year-old high school kid would conjure up in his notebook, but instead this was written by a 22-year-old woman.Now for the indie studios, they're getting a lot of hate, where people are calling GLITCH and Spindle major studios because they're monoliths in the indie space, but those who keep saying that they aren't indie truly don't understand what indie means.
>>153395402>If this was the case than almost no live action film outside of student films would be considered indie.What films are considered indie that you think aren't a romanticised version of indie?
>>153395483>but those who keep saying that they aren't indie truly don't understand what indie means.I would like to see your definition.
>>153393820Multiple conflicting and overlapping groups>This is not exactly what I expected it to be so this is bad>I have personally invested my entire heart and soul into this show, so I cannot accept any criticism of this mediocre cartoon>I think this show is something else than what it is, and I hate that thing I think it is, so I'm going to go out of my way to rage everytime someone mentions this show, because I need to let everyone know how much I hate this other unrelated thing.
>>153395449>I mean you can watch digital circus FOR FREE.Electricity, internet, adverts, netflix or movie ticket...Adblockers don't count because, thirdies, children, normies and conscientious virtue signallers, "I watch adverts to support the creator!", are not using them, you have to swap to alternative web browsers to do so, and youtube now gives you a second rate service to penalise youI also think anon is talking about not liking the attitude of slopmakers being far above his IRL poverty that I hope he's using public wifi to be online to tell us about if he cannot afford food
>>153395592You're being disingenuous, little tardo. It's free in the sense that you can use those things that anyone modern already has access to in order to survive in the day to day to watch it without having to pay extra.Also ads don't count as payment since you can don't actually lose anything but a few seconds. As for netflixs, it's on other stuff, tardo. And the movie thing caused a MAJOR shit fit from, you guessed it, the people who like watching it for free.
The moment online animation stopped being likehttps://youtu.be/Xgzlzt4D7achttps://youtu.be/xKnTSFublaIon average, is the moment we should of started putting everyone who wasn't a student or part of a animation company into work camps.
>>153395296You need a strong, compelling male MC, which is immediately a problem when you look at the current heads of indie. Think about it, the biggest male indie characters include Jax and a gay cheating owl, it’s fucking dire
>>153393964this feels like bait, but everyone involved in the making of TADC is middle-class at best, and many are outright broke
>>153395293Some might be angry fuckless fat guys
>>153393887why do industrycucks pretend it's still the early 00s
>>153395646Good
Threadly reminder that all whining from /co/ means absolutely nothing due to the fact that in 20 years, /co/ has produced absolutely nothing.other boards actually went and put their money where their mouth is.
>>153395805Could you explain further in detail, I'm a secondary in this nonsense and I want further insight from you.
>>153395616>Also ads don't count as payment since you can don't actually lose anything but a few seconds.Time, braincells, you now want to buy goyslop...>It being gatekept behind movie tickets caused people to REEAh yes, so you can't watch it for free, can you?>just wait two weeks!And you're spoiled by your friends and the internetAnd we're arguing over this when anon can't afford food and his point was "Gosh I hate rich fucks who try to say howdoyoudo fellow wagie"
>>153395805>/v/ made a game!No, someone who used /v/ to advertize made a game. /v/ is filled with brown children who have no money.
>>153395805>due to the fact that in 20 years, /co/ has produced absolutely nothing.Really? I thought we had at least made a webcomic or something. And didn't we make a bunch of board-tan designs that got adopted by other boards? Or are you referring specifically to content consumed by an audience outside of 4chan?
>>153393820Most indie shows simply don't appeal to me and when I see people saying shows like tadc are super deep masterpieces I can't help but roll my eyes. The comparisons to I have no mouth and I must scream are especially cringeworthy. Knights of gwenivere is the only current indie show that I'm interested in but I haven't heard any news on the next episode so as far as I'm concerned modern indie animation sucks. I want more action shows like tron and motorcity not fandom slop.
>>153395514In terms of a business, independent production studios like GLITCH is something that's privately owned by a small group of people and not a major conglomerate say like Disney or Paramount. IF they become public, as in anyone can own a share of their company or if they sold it off to a large conglomerate like, say Disney or Paramount (they'll never do this, but for the sake of argument let's pretend), that's when they'll no longer be independent. People keep saying Glitch and Spindle 'aren't indie' because they have licensing deals with Netflix and Amazon respectfully, but don't understand that they don't OWN the indie studios as they still have full creative control over their properties. Think of Steven Hillenburg's company "United Plankton Pictures", they work on episodes for SpongeBob but United Plankton is (or was) independently owned by Steven and not Nickelodeon/Viacom when he was still alive.Another thing that's brought up is that GLITCH receives funding from the Australian government and an American game dev company, but fail to understand that doesn't negate the fact that they're still indie. They don't own Glitch, they just provide funding. Hopefully my autistic rambling explained it well enough.
>>153396190It's not that those people don't understand, it's that they make up arbitrary criteria so they can say Glitch isn't indie
>>153396190>Spongebob is an indie cartoon
>>153396190By that logic Total Drama Island and all its spin-offs are indie cartoons.And every cartoon made for syndication in the 80s and 90s that wasn't directly made by HB, Warner, or Disney would also be indie.
>>153393910>Crabscare to elaborate...?
>>153396826People see others who are successful and want to drag them down.
>>153393910All animation seethe boils down to one of these
>>153395805https://www.cassiopeiaquinn.com
>>153396410>>153396659To clarify, the point I was making is that Steve's production studio on the other hand isn't owned by a much larger conglomerate, which makes his company a privately owned independent company that works on a major production. I was comparing how neither Netflix nor Amazon owns GLITCH or Spindle despite having their shows on their streaming services. I can see why you thought I might have meant that SpongeBob is independently owned by Steven's production company, but that's not what I was trying to get across. My point was just because a small indie production studio partners with a larger company, doesn't mean they're owned by said large company which by definition still makes them independent.
>>153393820>Long Gone GulchDid that ever go anywhere?
>>153396974No because it was all over the place and the 50s greaser was incredibly stupid
>>153393820It stops being indie as soon as they can live off it.It was supposed to be "post on NG on Monday, maybe if I'm not working my job and college" in 2005 era shit.Now, fuckers make millions doing that same shit, CEPT MY FUCKING SHIT WILL NEVER GET PICKED UP AND STILL GETS BLAMMED!
People are expecting indie cartoons to fully replace studio work and it's just not going to happen If anything, you should expect indie to get worse once the honeymoon period ends and the financial reality sets in
>>153395093And then....Undertale.....FNAF....Minecraft I was HERE when Notch used to post and ask for advice and shit. We all told him to kill himself and that he was a faggot for stealing from Inifiniminer.Fuck that shit
>>153395646I can't even make it to middle classOr get a jobI'm anticipating homelessness in the future
>>153394173>Goose was literaly a McDonalds ManagerHoly hell imagine having an autistic theatre kid troon as your boss.If Gangle in that episode was really autobiographical then Goose definitely powertripped on one of his employees.
>>153397309>If you were caught slacking, Goose would make you read his screenplays
>>153397507Kek
>>153393820I like them
>>153393875I find it funny how jealousy is treated as some terrible thing when it's a normal human emotion that literally everyone feelsYes, I am in fact jealous of these animators making a living. Yes, I would probably get enjoyment from their failure. I know it sounds childish but if I'm forced to work shit jobs then I want everyone else to as well.
>>153394538A lot of these indie creators also come from moneyMost successful artists do, or at least upper middle class. Poor people stay poor. Goddamn I hate my existence
>>153393820Crab in a bucket mentality from the cartoon side of the board.
>>153396974I wish we atleast got comics...
>>153400459Faggot
>Cartoon is a directionless slop just like the industry made ones>But it's okay because it's EENDIEE>You can't say anything because it's EENDIEE>You gotta praise it for doing nothing because it's EENDIEEgee i wonder why people are upset about that garbage
I want better writing and stories, is that too much to ask?
>>153393964>a bunch of indie animators>"make more money than I'll ever see.maybe a couple of the people at the top but are you being serious here
>>153393820they just wind me up because I know the suits in ties will eat em up soon (CAPITALISM!)
>>153394454>WrittenOpinion discarded.
>>153402671No no no anon,You see, those are INDIE leopardsThey would never eat anyone's faceYou can certainly trust those
>>153393820The "fandom". Not everyone who is into indie animation sucks, but it does tend to attract severely autistic individuals who can't simply enjoy something. They need to make the object of their temporary fixation the sum total of their personality. They want to believe that they and they alone are special for liking something, that it belongs to them, and that their interpretation or "insight" is Truth with a capital T. Anyone who could possibly disagree will trigger a complete autistic meltdown because these people are social retards. Having to deal with that when you are actually capable of maintaining a sense of perspective is annoying as fuck. Essentially, the show itself can be fine but when every discussion about it acts as a beacon for autistic retards who have to make their love of a show a problem for everyone else, it tends to eventually start to affect how people relate to the show. In short, I don't think TADC itself causes people to seethe as much as the carnival of retards who make themselves a nearly unavoidable accessory to the show.
>>153394528>How many writers are there working on EVERY internet show?a lot of people can claim credit on shows without having a significant amount of input. Sometimes people are responsible for heavy lifting on scripts, but you can still call yourself a writer on a show even if you just helped punch up a single scene or maybe contributed an idea while on a group chat. Still, credits are credits and being able to say that you worked on a lot of well known shows can help you book your next gig. This guy isn't wrong...indie animation pays like absolute shit. In order to pay rent doing it you have to be juggling multiple gigs at the same time, you'll end up working more than any typical day job, and dollar per hour, will likely end up making less than minimum wage. That's assuming you can even find that much work. Most people either have day jobs or do gig work elsewhere. A lot of animators will also do contract work for mainstream productions. Some teach. Writers will often also do some voice acting. Working in bars or restaurants or coffee shops is also not uncommon.
>>153395382>So they were never indie in the first placeWhat do you think indie means? Getting a grant does not mean you are not indie. But even so, they are fully self-funded now.
>>153395221>Is their an official designation for when something is initially state supported and then goes independent later?They were indie even when they got a grant from the government. The Australian government does not own Meta-Runner, they do not take profits from the IP, and Glitch was never beholden to shareholders even when they had their grant. It seems like a lot of anons believe that "indie" indicates how much money a group makes or how many people they employ. That's not the case.
>>153403760"indie" nowadays apparently means "anything not directly owned by disney"
>>153403894Indie has always meant the same exact thing as it does now. It's just that some autists have arbitrarily decided that just because they were introduced to indie animation through shit-tier newgrounds animations, anything beyond that is not indie.
>>153403894technically speaking that is true
>>153393820Indie creators have an inflated sense of worth and believe they are entitled to success.They expect the viewers to make their mediocre pilot famous so they get scouted and they can ESCAPE the indie "community."Tadc WAS a welcome exception because they decided to work with a smaller publisher instead of begging to be picked up Nick.That was until they decided people waiting years for less than 10 eps had to watch the last two episodes spliced together in public because having something in a theater is a mainstream indicator of success.Go behind the scenes and pitch your work, NYPA, indie is not a community, they are beggars, up to the second they don't need their supporters.Gooseworx has been shit talking his fans now, because he made his bag. He tells people how to interact with his work, another thing that's insufferable about indie animators.
>>153404240>Gooseworx has been shit talking his fans now, because he made his bag. He tells people how to interact with his work, another thing that's insufferable about indie animators.I'm not seeing anything like that. Just understandably weirded out by weird behavior and unwilling to bend to their pathetic attempts at trying to apply social pressure to change the story to their liking.
>>153393820Is TADC technically not Indie because some of the money Glitch got was from Australian taxpayers? I'm still looking forward to the last episode, even if the ending is disappointing. Also the whole Nega thing is funny, imagine getting triggered because a word sounds like Nigga, it's not 2016 anymore lol, regardless of how "woke" the fanbase is and how much other fans try to filter them there's gonna be people unironically saying slurs. Pointless controversy, especially near the end of the shows run, you had all this time and now you wanna get offended?
>>153404330I'd say Glitch is indie, but it wouldn't be indie on the same scale like Pizza Tower or something.
>>153393964Imagine still shilling celebrities, they're all fake. https://youtu.be/1eMAtS3x76Q?si=96EYFKCI4ZimgE4s
>>153404287I shouldn't know they're weirded out. He should act like a professional and ignore fringe behavior. But all these creators are progressive moralfags, so they have to let you know when something is "not ok." He makes a scene about stepping away from social media instead of quietly doing so, and the fans of his work collectively end up taking a hit to their reputation. He apologized soon after, but his childish outburst is already normalized and he is treated like a sympathetic victim and his supporters the villains.
>>153404630wrong pic :/
>>153404487No
youtubeshit will never be cartoonsi'm never watching shit made by millennials and zoomers
>>153404630>He should act like a professional and ignore fringe behaviorI disagree. I think if people are acting like complete fucking retards, it's not wrong to tell them that they're acting like complete fucking retards. All things considered, I think Goose handled the situation pretty well. Dealing with autists sucks. They're socially retarded and I think the fact that they believe they should no longer be shamed for their social retardation has been a net loss for society. Learn to mask.
>>153397186He got told to kill himself because he was going to ban microtransactions in servers, and by consequence destroy multiplayer servers as a whole.He was right in doing that and didn't deserve shit for it, but his bad game design choices early on are the reason Minecraft's gameplay sucks after all these year.
>>153404659>considered never touching itsequel confirmed
>>1533958051. Obvious faggot acting like a faggot to get himself riled up for sodomy later.2. Plenty of industry, indie, and other artists have posted here and they get arbitrarily excluded because they succeeded, letting you avoid being proven wrong, Gooseworx has that obvious fucking stench as well >>153396883Based.
>>153404727Nice cope
>>153403894i think for corporate artists out of work the value of the scrappy bootstrap narrative compensates for losing money and status while preserving the idea of a pathway to traditional success so the tension of distinguishing one purpose from the other creates vulnerabilities that are easily needled
>>153394411Comments like this that makes me laugh. How many of the most famous cartoonists, animators, writers, and creators are dirt fucking poor, having to do GoFundMes when they eventually get cancer or some "worked their fingers off for 5 decades" illness?The rare few like JK Rowling or GRRM who keep the rights to everything get paid, but the vast majority see jack fucking shit for what they create. It all goes back to whatever corporation owns the rights to their properties. Success and fame absolutely does not equal money, especially with shit like animation. Glitch Productions is certainly making plenty off TADC, Goosworx though? That's a lot harder to say.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGknlEWjxZc
>>153404330>Is TADC technically not Indie because some of the money Glitch got was from Australian taxpayers?no. It would technically not be Indie if those taxpayers (or the government) were *investors*. Grant money is essentially a gift. Indie creators get grants and endowments all the time. They're still indie. If, however, someone gave them a bunch of cash but then expected to get percentages of their profits in return, they would no longer be independent. They would have investors and would be beholden to people who have a stake in the company. Glitch doesn't have investors. They don't have publicly traded stock nor are any networks expecting to take a chunk of anything they make. They have *licensing* deals with Netflix and Amazon which means they still own the IP, but they give those services the ability to stream the shows. That's different from a company owning an IP and contracting an indie animation studio to create it for them. Furthermore, Glitch is not required to kick money up to them when they make money on youtube, merch sales, etc.
Indie animation sucks because it's all downstream of tumblr. It's all very "neurodivergent" and "LGBT" in its characters and aesthetics and everyone can clock it immediately, which is why certain types of people are obsessed with it while others have an instant kneejerk distaste for it.
>>153393820It's pretty simple. The wast majority if it is shit.
>>153405027>it's all downstream of tumblrit doesn't have to be. Anyone can make shit and put it online.
At what point does something stop being indie?Is Disney indie? If not, who do they depend on?
i personally wouldn't mind indie animation if the fanbase wasn't filled with the most disgusting trannies of all time. you can say to simply ignore it, which true, i can and i do, but an awful fanbase can change the work if they bully the artists that make the shows. like for example, they're trying to kill glitch and gooseworx and fucking whoever else associated with tadc because someone 7 years ago said nigger. gooseworx should just say 'FUCK YOU NIGGERS' to these subhumans.
>>153404748this attitude reeks of someone who hasn't worked a day in their life.Making a show is a JOB, if you can't handle the responsibility, don't do it.Part of the responsibility is to not let the comments of supporters affect the perception of your own work.It cheapens the product authenticity, leads to resentment, and becomes a liability for the people you work with that might not give a fuck what you think and just want to be paid to do a job.This is why professionals will not touch indie with a 10 foot pole, immature ideologues that can't fathom some people want to make a decent product, make money and move on to the next.
>>153405089Disney has investors. Disney is not indie. Hope this helps
>>153405017>>153405165So indie is just a private company?
>>153405163naw. I've worked JOBs all my life. If some autistic idiot walked up to me and started telling me in a very uncouth way how I should do that job, I'd find a nice gentle way to tell them to fuck off. Goose wasn't rude or uncouth about it. There's a weird expectation where creators are expected to endure any and all verbal abuse. Again, I think if someone is being an autistic retard, they should be told so. It's fine to be disappointed how a plot turns out. It's okay to disagree with decisions that creators make. It's okay to voice those disappointments. But I think the line is when people start overstepping social boundaries and become assholes about it. Goose didn't go nuclear and have a Vivzie meltdown over it. They simply expressed a bit of frustration about it. That's it.
>>153405176Yes but not all private companies are equalTeam Cherry for example will never shutter unless everyone involved dies since all four or so members are multi millionaires
>>153405176Not necessarily. Private companies can still have private investors. To confuse things a little bit more, in film productions, indie studios can work on non-indie productions. Nickelodeon can decide it's going to reboot Rocko's Modern Life and contract an indie animation studio to create it for them. In that case, the studio can still be independent even if the specific project they're contracted to work on is not. None of this is the case with Glitch. They don't have investors and they own all the shows they create. When they turn a profit, they don't need to kick percentages to anyone and despite licensing their shows to streaming networks like Netflix and Amazon, once the term of the licensing agreement expires, they are free to license the show to someone else. Netflix and Amazon do not own their shows.
>>153405240Depends on the creator
>>153403894I mean, yeah kinda. I explained earlier that indie means something that's not owned by a larger company or a company that's no longer private.
>>153405327And you don't think Glitch had anyone invest money in them privately?
>>153405017The artists own Glitch?
>>153405240I think a lot of too-online modern creatives could learn a lot from Harlan Ellison on the forgotten skill of telling obsessive fans to fuck off.
>>153405379There is no evidence to suggest that. Just because a company is successful does not mean that they have investors.
>>153405447No. You're thinking of a coop which is a whole other thing. The artists are independent contractors. They are paid by Glitch for services rendered.
>>153405456There's no evidence to the contrary either.If all that makes something indie hinges on something that can't be proven or disproved, how can anyone even claim indie is a thing?
>>153405379NTA, but even if that were the case which it doesn't seem to be, they can still be indie but it depends on who is investing and how much control they get. So far the owners are just the two brothers that started the company.
>>1533938204chan hates successful creative people
>>153405559>but it depends on who is investing and how much control they get.Why?
>>153405583They should love indie shit and hate corpo slop instead then.
>>153395805>other boards actually went and put their money where their mouth is.Someone on /3/ just finished this, whcih I find quite nifty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGj8nKVFI68And the board supposed their effort by killing the thread about its completion
>>153405538I'm not an accountant but I would imagine there are paper trails for that sort of thing as well as legal implications for publicly claiming that you are an independent company when that is not the case. People investing in Glitch would be required to pay taxes on their gains, etc. But again, hallucinating something and then believing it to be true does not make it a credible fact. If Glitch proclaims to be independent and there is zero proof to the contrary, then the rational thing to do would be to take them at their word unless and until you can dig up concrete evidence that indicates otherwise. Anything else is a conspiracy theory.
>>153405538You are using uncertainty as proof. There's clearly no evidence that GLITCH has private investors.
>>153405559So Mars is an independent food producer?
>>153393820it's all for and by white people
>>153405597That's not true. Anon doesn't know what "indie" means either. If a company has an investor, they are not indie. But it's important to point out that investors have a stake in the company. That is different from gifts, grants, donations, etc. Having a crowdfund does not affect indie status. Having a patreon does not affect indie status. Receiving a grant does not affect indie status. *Investment* indicates an expectation of return. If someone puts money into a company with the expectation (or at least possibility) of getting money back out again if/when that company becomes profitable, then they are an investor and that company is no longer indie. To be clear, investment is separate from a loan. If someone lends cash to a creator and expects to be paid back with interest, that is a different thing from expecting percentages of profits. A company can get a loan, the lender can make a profit from that loan, and the company can still be independent because once the loan is paid off, they are no longer financially beholden to the lender.
>>153405692No
>>153405696How does a crowdfund not effect the status when I put money into thing and hope I get a product out of it
>>153405617you'd think as a general rule anons would love indie stuff and hate corpo slop given how much they complain about "normies". However a quick look at all the ballwashing for corporate shows and hatred for indie stuff on /co/ or how many conversations center around gigantic acts on /mu/ proves otherwise. Anons consume and enjoy all the same slop that everyone else does, they're just more socially retarded about it.
>>153405731You're not expecting to get MONEY out of it.
>>153405684Yes because they're still independently family-owned, and not funded by larger conglomerates same goes for GLITCH.
>>153405770>M&M's are indie candyNeat.
>>153405770NTA, but I would have assumed Mars was owned by Nestle or something. TIL. Neat.
>>153405761So it’s the end result that matters even if there’s a possibility that the end result might just be a dead end instead of money or a product
>>153405696I think you misconstrued me. If a larger company, say Disney, was a private investor then that wouldn't make them indie anymore.
>>153405807I don't know what you think "investment" means. If you put money into something with the expectation that you could get more *money* out of it, that is an investment.You may be confused because the term "investment" can have multiple meanings. You can invest in your health by going to the gym and eating well. You can invest in your future by going to school. These are distinct from a financial investment in this exact scenario. So if you donate to a crowdfund to get a film made but do not expect to get a share of any future potential *profits*, then you are not an investor insofar as that term applies to this exact scenario of affecting the independent status of a production.
>>153405448Harlan Ellison didn’t act that way he did because he was le based genius writer. It was because he had untreated bipolar disorder and never took his meds.
>>153405815Yes. If Disney was a private investor, they would no longer be indie. Also, if someone's random uncle was a private investor, they would no longer be indie. It doesn't matter the size of the company or how much of a share they'd have of the profits. If they give money and expect a *return* on that investment (which is distinct from being paid back a loan even if that loan accrues interest), then the company is no longer indie. An investment is ongoing. A loan is done once it is paid off even if the amount paid back ends up being more than the initial amount lent. If someone is *investing* in a company, that company is no longer independent.
>>153405885So what if I invest into a crowdfunding, opting to go for an exclusive reward, then turning around and selling that item back to the market?
>>153405886anon didn't stipulate the reason that Ellison handled criticism the way he did. They simply stated contemporary creators could learn from how he handled it. Van Gogh likely painted the way he did because he was being medicated for mental illness which, among other things, had the side effect of him perceiving colors in very specific vibrant ways. You can still say that painters could learn a lot from Van Gogh's painting even though the reason he painted that way was partially due to the drugs he was on.
>>153405935that's not an investment. You're not buying a stake in the PROFITS of the group. You bought a thing and then turned around and sold that thing. You may have made a profit from that sale, but you are not getting a percentage of the profits that the company made. The company you funded can make 1 million dollars from a distribution deal and they would NOT be obligated to give you a single cent from the money they made because you did not invest in them. Do you see the difference? You don't own shares of any profits they make.
>>153405935Despite what transformers fans or the like would like you to believe, buying swag to resell isn't an investment, it's just what they tell to their spouses or parents to justify buying useless shit
>Corpo slop exists to sell toys and tacky knickknacks>Indie slop exists to sell toys and tacky knickknacksI fail to give a fuck in either direction.
>>153406063How about not being a fag?
>>153405935>>153406010I think the confusion is in the term "investment". You may see the purchase of the reward as a personal investment in that you want to wait for it to appreciate in value so you can sell it for a profit. That's fine, but you're not investing in the company. You're investing in the object. The profits you make are because the object itself increases in value. If you invested in the company/studio/group, your profits would come from the value of the company/studio/group increasing. Does that make sense?
>>153406072His illness is terminal but I fail to see how that goes against his claim.
>>153406072I don't give a fuck about that either.Be a fag if you want.
>>153405886You leftist fucks stigmatize every natural personality and replace that with the shittiest memes your discord can pump into your bussy.Obviously Harlan Ellison’s work is very personal in nature, people are enjoying his personality, not an illness.
>>153404659That's hilarious and I endorse that response.
>>153406039>buying swag to resell isn't an investmentIt certainly can be, but I think that's where the confusion lies. In the case of that transformer or whatever, anon would be investing in the object, NOT the company. Any potential profits would rely on the object itself increasing in value. When you invest in a company, the value of your investment relies on the *company* increasing in value.
>>153405935Both you and that other guys are retards. And neither one of you don't understand what makes or doesn't make a company indie.If someone I N V E S T S into an independent company, the company is NO LONGER INDEPENDENT.If the indie company becomes P U B L I C and anyone can I N V E S T into said indie company, then that NO LONGER MAKES THEM INDIE.You 'invest' into a crowdfunding project means you threw money into what was essentially a fundraiser and received a reward from it. It back DOES NOT MEAN you own a stake in said indie company, you owned a product and you're reselling it. Besides, indie studios do this all the time with Kickstarter to help fund their shit.
>>153406063Corpo slop largely exists to turn a profit for investors. Indie slop largely exists to simply make the thing. An indie production breaking even can be regarded as a major success while it would be a miserable failure for a corporation.
>>153406087You are
The definition of investment was uttered several times this last hour or so
>>153406162I'm the guy that other guy was responding to. I don't know if you were referring to me, but we're in agreement here. You're saying exactly what I've been saying the whole thread.
>>153406162Yes but i put money into that crowdfund for the indie company, which is basically me privately investing into it along with many other people, so wouldnt that make it non-indie?
>>153405505Yes, Glitch is a business that contracts artists to generate IP the business uses its sole ownership of to generate a return for private investors.
>>153406233at this point, this is willful stupidity. Can't tell if a troll or genuinely retarded...the difference is not super obvious these days.
>>153406242>to generate a return for private investorsnope
>>153405971Not even criticism so much, any artist should have a thick skin and be ready to deal with that. It's more about the familiarity. Even before the internet fans had unhealthy parasocial relationships with the people who made the stuff they loved and would look for ways to hound them. Either through letter writing or stalking them at conventions. Now with social media the idea that you can reach an artist and influence their art is pervasive amongst these communities and there are a lot of people who take it very personally when an artist says, does, or creates something they don't like. If the artist makes the mistake of engaging with this sort of online drama it just makes things worse. Shippers are a great example of the sort of lunatics who will poison your mind if you listen to them and they've always been a curse on any creative, especially when their favorite pairing doesn't get canonized and they get pissy about it.When Ellison interacted with fans at signings he'd be cordial enough. As long as you didn't try to act like some kind of psychic vampire with him he'd sign your book. But these clingy fans who expect the artist to respect their opinions, give them answers, and basically be friends with them? He was more than happy to tell them where they could go.It doesn't need to be mean or aggressive but he was absolutely right that artists need to establish firm boundaries between themselves and their fans. I saw a post by Gooseworx the other asking their followers about how they could improve their writing going forward. This is the worst thing a writer could possibly do. John Q Twitter doesn't have a fucking clue how to write, and your fans are the last people you should be reaching out to for constructive criticism. The most surefire way of ruining anything you want to write is to let your audience become involved in the process. Don't fucking do it.
>>153406200a cool guy. I know.
>>153395093I think the pedantry around controlling the definition of “indie” to favor corpo people now that corporate is falling apart is an extension of the working class cosplay fetish its weird
>>153406348> I saw a post by Gooseworx the other asking their followers about how they could improve their writing going forwardAnyone who isn't Goose won't know the motivations behind that, but I could see there being a good chance that Goose won't take any suggestions seriously. This could Goose's way of simply trying to engage fans. It's like when youtubers ask for people to suggest something in the comments. They don't actually give a fuck. They're just trying to mine engagement and get their audience to feel more connected to them. I think it's a ploy to make Goose seem more affable and open to critique, but I would be extremely surprised if they gave any serious consideration to anything anyone actually responded with.
>>153406384>the pedantry around controlling the definition of “indie”I think it makes more sense to hold the definition of indie to actually mean indie instead of checking off arbitrary elements that people have come to associate with indie that, in fact, have nothing to do with it. It's perfectly valid to prefer low budget animation, but that's distinct from "indie" which, while often low budget, is not inherently so.
>>153393820As far as I've seen lately, the "seethe" is mostly bitching about how Glitch is doing things an indie animation studio wouldn't do, accusing them about not being indie anymore because they have a licensing deal with big streaming service like Netflix, selling merch, and releasing the final episode of Digital Circus in theatres...Then there's the recent "nega" controversy. Why people have a problem selling merch, I have no clue. Like selling merch is turning a profit for them to keep their boat afloat and produce more of their shows, and yet this somehow makes people question their legitimacy on if they are indie or not because they sell apparel, plushies and figurines of characters from their IPs. Then again it's stupid twitter zoomers with no basic understanding on what the term "independent" actually means.
>>153406384Independent always meant "outside the majors" whether it's film, music, comics, or animation. It never meant "low-budget, just a few people."
>>153405059We’re talking about the actual ecosystem, not the possibilities indie provides. Anyone can make a zine about anything, yet the majority of zine makers are trannies and faggots
>>153406491People forget that before the streaming age, it was not uncommon for independent productions to get theatrical releases. I don't see what the big deal with TADC doing the last episode in theaters is. There are a lot of reasons to do that, but I'm convinced a primary motivation is because they want to make a run at the Oscars. It's the same reason why a lot of Netflix films will be in theaters for like one day. It's less about trying to pull in money and more about becoming a candidate for accolades.
>>153406063Welcome to capitalism, enjoy your stay.
Many people dislike the writing in indie shows and typically blame their lack of "life experience". In reality they're comparing these nobodies to great writers who are exceptional people with interesting lives. Most people do not live interesting lives and never had. You are not going to get the next JRR Tolkien through the indie market. Indie standards imo have gotten way too high since Hazbin but this is also a product of a dying industry. People want high quality animation, high quality writing, 30 minute runtimes, all for free on YouTube while the creators juggle full time jobs. This is absolutely insane and I don't know why this isn't talked about more. TV animation was subsidized by advertising and toy sales. Youtube AdSense pays like shit and the merch only sells to millennials
I think it's because people expect it to be better and more varied than it presently is. When indie comes across as being no different than what the mainstream corpo-funded productions offer people are disappointed. Glitch Productions IMO do actually deliver on USP (unique selling point), no one else is producing things like they are. The problem being is that it still doesn't appeal to a lot of people, that it feels dated to others that are old enough and that it has spawned both imitators (diluting the USP) and an extremely annoying fanbase.I don't think the Audience really knows what it wants and neither do creators which is very unfortunate because there's a lot of unproductive flailing about happening and I don't know how much longer the present situation can sustain itself financially.
>>153406586I think advertising will end up integrated into the average streaming experience just the way it happened with cable. People will whine and complain but it may actually turn out okay. Without advertisement and without direct payments or merchandising animation is simply unsustainable and the audience needs to accept that so they can make informed decisions about how to support the things they like.
>>153406586The concept of writers who have seemingly never socialized outside of a certain bubble was consistent through the 2010s though.The real problem is how all these writers artists from the Internet have ended up so heavily fucking influenced by it. The tropes are all the same. There's always a found family, there's always a canon ship and at least 3 dynamics designed to bait fanfiction, they always have to introduce some kind of deep lore/angst element in.And that's because they all grew up frequenting the same websites, within the same fandoms, and that has become their entire perception of what the crowds want.Smiling Friends literally got popular partially because a new silly episodic comedy without much angst, lore, or overarching story felt like a breath of fresh air for people in the current landscape. Make of that what you will.
>>153406718I think streaming fucked the future of media regardless. Regardless of what it's become, streaming wasn't taken nearly as seriously as cable was so as a result, royalties for creators on streaming services are WAY lower, licensing costs are lower, and cost for ads is way lower. Techbros did what techbros do and devalued their own product while they were attempting to push out competitors. Now shows just aren't worth as much as they used to be and streamers are wondering how the fuck they can turn a profit. Congratulations...you played yourself.
>>153406469The people insisting Glitch isn’t indie would have no audience for that argument if no one were trying to override existing language use because there is now a benefit to naming an object for career or brand narrative purposes. You would continue to know what people mean in multiple contexts and move on with the meaningful points of discussion like we did for 20 years here because we’d continue to hold the understanding >>153406162 has that engaging with ambiguity is not borne of ignorance and you guys would be having a discussion about the content each other is bringing up instead of fighting to be right and not wrong all the time. That goes for everyone. Because that is as far as anyone cared about calling their show indie or what it meant, until the corporate model changed. Control is simply more important than communication.
>>153394093I mean when people say that, your Mr Beast's and Markiplier's are probably exempt
>>153406779people make what they perceive as lacking. We saw tons of shows about LGBTQ+ characters because people grew up in a time when that was something you didn't see on TV. They fantasized about the type of show they'd create if they were given the chance, and then when they got that chance, they did what they wanted to do.
>>153406606The whole "Indie is the future" jargon doesn't help either, because if you're going to be the future, people will naturally judge you by the standards of the past, and if you can't live up to it, you're just a downgrade.Indie games are currently being praised, because they by their very nature, are very similar to how games were made in the past, with smaller teams, and more experimentation."Classic" video games is stuff like Resident Evil 1-3, Final Fantasy, platformers, sidescrollers, experimental stuff from the PS2 like Katamari and SotC, and stuff like that, none of which thrived on great visuals or writing.Indie animation doesn't have the same advantage. The same "classics" that they'll be compared to is stuff like ALL of past Disney, early Dreamworks, Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, Late 90s and early 00s Nick and CN.
>>153406586I think people are too hard on every part of the creative process under the constraints its under today. Even criticisms of recurring subject matter and lack of life experience I don’t think can be totally separated from the fact that everything is written in a rush with less editing and collaboration. We need more diversity of people but I don’t really think it’s a problem with the people.
>>153406934very good pointI think Indie Animation needs to step away from actually being animated and doing something more like motion comics or 'story times'. There's actually a lot of stuff like this on youtube and tiktok with crazy numbers of views that can not claim to be animated, because it isn't. You have some pretty illustrations and a narrator, maybe individual voice actors if you're feeling fancy. 'Pretty Please I Don't Want to be a Magical Girl' is likewise, not animated. Pick your battles.
>>153406832It's actually insane how many markets streaming has killed>Cable/TV advertising >Movie theaters >Physical mediaThis shit greatly affects the type of media that gets made. Matt Damon talked about thisHell, streaming is technically killing itself
>>153406876"indie animation" is being discussed now because there's been a sea change. It's the convergence of corporate animation being defunded, animators being out of work and newly graduated animators being unable to find jobs, the rise of crowdfunding, the wider ability to self-publish and distribute via youtube, the wider and ability to self advertise through social media. Simply put, it's a bigger topic now than it was 20 years ago because the pieces happen to be in place to make "going indie" a realistic alternative to having corporate backing. Add to that powder keg the success of Hazbin Hotel and suddenly threads about indie productions are more widespread and with it, arguments about what does and does not constitute an indie production.While your allegation that people may want to identify as "indie" for career or brand narrative purposes would hold more water if we saw that as being a successful tactic and even saw some major corpos trying to masquerade as independent. I think it's going to get there eventually, but at the moment identifying as indie doesn't have any material gains despite the false impression anons may get from hanging out on spaces like /co/. Glitch and Spindlehorse are really the only two groups operating at any sort of profit worth mentioning and those pale in comparison to any corpo by orders of magnitude. Most other indies are breaking even at best, but most are losing money. You'd have a better point if we started seeing corpos trying to sell Smiling Friends as being an indie production or Adult Swim shows as being indie, but that's not the case. There is no struggle to redefine the term. It's just a bunch of autistic retards sperging out because they think that turning a profit and having employees means you're not indie.
>>153406881This is a pedophilic narrative for deluding kids. LGBTQ gatekept people like me who just wanted to tell normal stories. They got off on doing so: it made them feel dominant, and feeling dominant provokes excessive sexual activity.Please stop peddling this crap, I’m getting better every day at annihilating it.
>>153407130>pedophilic narrativeA niece diddler would know. Shut the fuck up Guy. Take your meds and stay away from schools.
>>153406881>>153407163Thank you for showing that you’re here to bait teenagers for mental grooming just as I identified you as doing. One more peep and emails.
>>153407197Guy, I still haven't received an e-mail from you which means you're slacking. Instead of posting on /co/ you should be catching up on your workload. You need to send 100 e-mails by the end of the day.
>>153405059yeah ok good luck putting together a team of artists and animators that aren't terminally online basket cases in the current year
>>153406560>I don't see what the big deal with TADC doing the last episode in theaters is.I'm not sure either. An indie cartoon which it's roots stems from being free to watch on YouTube, suddenly breaking out of the internet and onto the big screen is of course new to many, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I remember Mondo Media and another indie animation company almost did this with their animated series called Dick Figures back in the 2010s but apparently they didn't reach their kick starter goal to have it be shown in multiple traditional theaters, just one theatrical debut in Canada iirc and was then released where people could watch it on demand.
I want real cartoons back. Multiple season shows with weekly release schedules.
>>153407590>suddenly breaking out of the internet and onto the big screenespecially because it's still going to be available for free on youtube. That's always been a part of Glitch's thing. Their shows are available on places like Amazon and Netflix, but you can still watch it for free too. It will be in theaters and it will also be on youtube. And the gap between theatrical release and youtube will be two weeks. We're not talking about a long time. I think people just got way too entitled. "I want everything free and I don't want to wait for it. I've been watching your show for free since the very beginning! You owe me!"
>>153407627Well, you aren't going to be getting themThe industry is deadThis is why I laugh at people who bitch about current animation quality. The industry is collapsing, no shit everything is going to look cheap.Anons need to prepare for the complete death of 2D American TV animation
>>153407627sorry man but you weren't paying for them or buying their merch, no wonder they died
>>153394337>for boysYou mean for manchildren, not actual boys. Sure the Flashgitz team (I know you mean fucking Space King, be honest) can plop a bunch of kids in their commercials but it doesn't mean boys actually watch it.Banking on a specific demographic to carry your series home instead of just casting shit out there is crippling yourself and dooming it to rot in obscurity.
>>153405719there's not a single indie project featuring black people
>>153408353I'm black and have an indie cartoonBut it stars white people, idc
>>153407627I’d settle for one
>>153408454yeah sure
>>153408353Mighty Grand Piton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9hbmMkdPzo
>>153406934>>153407100I think something important to keep in mind is that the creation of "indie" as a meaningful term formed in response to the hold Film Studios back when companies like Warner and MGM literally carved out vast vertically integrated domains in media production.In that Indie basically functioned as a catchall term for those outside of the Studio System, and that carried over to other forms of media leaving a paradigm where we had The Monoliths, those that while independent fed into the Monoliths, and Indie.Now the monoliths are collapsing and the box indie productions were forced into due to how resources were allocated are now gone and so the value behind the terms are gone.Imagine a plant that traditionally existed as part of the undergrowth of a larger ecosystem and in turn had its growth shaped by the limited amount of nutrition into a neat little flower. Now imagine that we take away that ecosystem and give that little plant all the nutrients it could ever want, letting it grow to the point where it becomes a vast tangle, a tangle so different than what people saw that some don't believe it should have the same name despite still being the same plant..
>>153408353youre right because the indie space mostly features furry characters
Very tempted to see this in theaters but I hate watching movies with other people and I'm worried it's going to be too sad. Good show, really enjoy, much fun.
>>153408682Yeah, if your concept of the medium revolves around the studios authority, this is the only model you would even have to use in this conversation.
>>153407627That version of the industry is never coing back, not unless people suddenly want to watch cable TV again. I remember in the 2010s being worried but the declining viewership of cartoon channels. Only a handful of anons understood why this was bad. Now the chickens have come to roost and this is it.
>>153394337>Indie cartoons for boysThere is no such thing, both indie creators and industry fags in current year have no idea what boys like and don’t care to learn. Instead, they take what boys like and turn it into shitty jokes or commentary because “le SUBVERSION”
>>153409594monkey wrench
>>153393820More control. Everyone knows the CEO of Disney or Netflix doesn't give a shit what they think, but they can bully someone who's online into writing the story their way.
>>153408656Why don't you believe me?
>>153401533Your greentext exactly describes Shekelspark.
>>153397507I am interested in seeing just how much more mature and explicit this final Amazing Digital Circus will be now that all meta-censorship's been removed. Do the parents who bought their kids tickets know what they're in for?
>>153412383It's rated TV-PG on Netflix, this will be partly on them. If goose ends up ending the series with a gore orgy then I want to see the reaction
>>153412383They're not going to blindside anyone, they're saying it's the equivalent of a PG-13.
>>153403402There's people like that for practically every type of show or hobby.
>>153393820why do they all sound like that?fuck even cas van de pol's gnome show>cutesy art design>character says the FUCK wordall indie animation is sausage partythere i said it
>>153394538Miss when blogposters got mocked for treating 4chan like their personal therapist
>>153406934What indie animators seem to want to make is anime, with their plots and fleshed out characters in animation that's not just for children or an adult comedy, but with quirky looking characters instead.
>>153407503> terminally online basket cases in the current yearthe irony of saying that here
It’s not any their independent; it’s the the overwhelming amount of them are made by trannies or people with tranny adjacent tendencies.
>>153412383I want to squeeze Pomni's pomnis
>>153409718Monkey wrench isn’t for boys. It’s just for Zeurel.
>>153412904Yes, and they suck. But indie animation tends to attract a significantly larger concentration of autists because of the bright colors and tangential associations with childhood.
>>153394454This guy sure loves to blow himself, huh?
>>153407435Thanks, my haters need to hear my genius and I’ll never find them without sending it to a ton of people
>>153415457FunnyBunny FTW!!
>>153394695>All Indies are equal, but some Indies are more equal than others
>>153408682>letting it grow to the point where it becomes a vast tangle, a tangle so different than what people saw that some don't believe it should have the same name despite still being the same plant..The irony of this comparison is that, despite what people may think, that plant is still classified as the same plant regardless. This is like thinking that indie rock that doesn't sound like it was produced in someone's bedroom onto an 8 track cassette recorder is not indie because that's what a lot of indie stuff sounded like in the 80s and 90s. The problem isn't that the new independent music is not indie...it's that people confusedly used the term indie interchangeably with lofi. In the same case with live action film or animation, people often used "indie" when they really meant "low budget" or "small crew" or "arthouse". Those terms may or may not apply, but it doesn't change the fact that The Ninja Turtles (1990) was an indie film despite being action focused, having a budget of $14 million, and grossing $202 million. There were a lot of huge films from the 80s and 90s that people may not readily identify as "indie", but they are indie nevertheless. A surprising number of big budget action films starring A-list celebrities were indie productions. This was well *before* the collapse of the mainstream monoliths. The nature of independent productions isn't changing. There just seem to be more people paying attention in the animation space specifically who erroneously thought that indie inherently meant hobbyist animation on NewGrounds. They forget that indie animation also includes productions like The Brave Little Toaster, The Secret of Nimh, All Dogs Go to Heaven, Ferngully the Last Rainforest, etc.
>>153394695>Where do lines get drawn on what is indie or not?Don’t worry about it. Hollywood artists moved in and they’ll decide for you what you mean.
>>153394639wut?I don't think at any point in time has "the point" of an indie production been to specifically not have a writer. >>153394695>Where do lines get drawn on what is indie or not?When there are investors involved, it is no longer indie. To be clear, an investor is defined as a person or group who isn't directly involved in the production who helps finance a project with the express intent of sharing in future profits.Giving money to a production does not necessarily mean you are an investor.Crowdfunders are not investors.Government agencies that give a production a grant are not investors.People who give a production a loan or a gift are not investors.An indie project *can* be 4 people. It can also be hundreds of people and subcontracted studios. It can mean people make something on virtually no budget, or it can mean that they have millions. The first two terminator films were independent productions. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) was an indie production. All Dogs Go to Heaven was an indie film despite getting a wide release in mainstream theaters. Pulp Fiction was an indie film. People often confuse "indie" for "low budget" or "small crew". While low budget/small crew productions are often indie, not all indie productions have a low budget/small crew.
>>153406233>which is basically me privately investing into it>words mean whatever I want them toNo nigger
