I was watching a youtube video about the problem killing western comics, and the at one point says something like "anyone can pick up Naruto from volume one and keep reading from there, while if a new reader picks up the new Batman #1 he has to read the 80 year history of the character to understand what's going on"Do you agree with that /co/?
>>153411922>and the guy at one point saysSucks i can't edit it
>>153411922No, the new Batman series doesn't really require any previous knowledge of Batman
>>153411922>Do you agree with that /co/?No. This was never a problem. Ever. Ask anyone who read comics in the 80s through 2000s and they'll most certainly tell you they started with some random ass high number. This is a moronic notion. Everything you will need to know in any comic is something you can gleam from context. God manga fags are retarded.
>>153411922No, it's the opinion of people who categorically refuse the engage with media but still feel entitled to give their opinions on it. Episodic serialized storytelling is a completely different narrative format as opposed to sequential serialized storytelling and doesn't require you to read everything that came prior as context is given within the individual stories themselves.And while we're at it:>anyone can pick up Naruto from volume one and keep reading from there, while if a new reader picks up the new Batman #1 he has to read the 80 year history of the character to understand what's going onIs the same thing repeated once as a positive then again as a negative. Both essentially say to start at the beginning and read every single story.
>>153411922Yeah, but it’s not really the “80 years of history.” It’s just too many writers. One guy sets something up, the next guy changes it or ignores it, so the story and characters end up all over the place. That’s what actually makes it confusing to get into.
>>153411922Form your own opinion, dumbass
>>153411922Yes, manga editors are much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much better at their jobs.
>>153411922No, comic volumes don't always relate to previous volumes, writers tend to do their own thing. It's actually easier to read the new series of Batman vs 15 years worth of Naruto.
Do people go on /a/ and ask shit like “hey I want to read an adventure with the Straw Hats, why isn’t there like one book and one story I can read instead of 100 volumes and also the crew is together at the start and I don’t have to wait until book 60 for everyone to be together?”
>>153413020No, they know One Piece is what it is and either read it, starting with the first chapter, or don't. There's less room for retardation than with comics.
>>153411922>This tired engagement fallacy againMost people familiar with Dragonball now started by watching Z without any complaints or intent to go back to understand what's going on.Another case would be JoJo part skippers who jump right to SC.It's just made up vibes horseshit like most shallow debates these days.
>>153412176>No. This was never a problem. Ever. Ask anyone who read comics in the 80s through 2000s and they'll most certainly tell you they started with some random ass high number.Pretty much.That's a sensible argument in the OP but it's overstated. Everybody and their mother has already commented on the costs, placement in comic shops and eyeing the old guard and die hards, and all of these seem carry more weight than "but they didn't start at the beginning!".There's a reason a lot of people skip Berserk's Dark Swordsman arc and start straight at the Golden Age, or slide into Jojo at another chapter that isn't Phantom Blood. To say nothing of Dragon Ball, which only ever became a true worldwide phenomena with Z, and nobody lost sleep over not knowing Goku's childhood or who are these yahoos gawking with their jaws open while his kid gets kidnapped.
Even if it were the case how can someone sit there and say JUST READ 600 CHAPTERS OF BLEACH but somehow can process the idea of reading however many hundreds of issues from the start. They know where the start is. It's not like the 60s book is some big mystery. Even the renumberings have a clear date on them.
>>153413101Ironically you can skip the entirety of Berserk's Golden Age arc and not really miss anything regarding the main narrative.
>>153411922Everyone ITT seems to agree that's retarded. But what is the reason? Demon Slayer was out selling all of Western comics combined at one point. There's definitely a reason for that
>>153413223>But what is the reason?It's almost like people said that reason doesn't hold water for a bunch of facts but you didn't humor them.Maybe, just maybe, manga does better because stories with a beginning, middle and end allow things to breathe better beyond mere brand recognition. Not a single soul living believes "Good Norman Osborn" will stick. But comic writers and editors would have you believe That's a Good Thing!™ and that reading a story that is some sort of perpetual purgatory where things snap back to the preferred status quo is rewarding.
>>153411922No, that's not true. Batman is probably one of the more complicated characters to get into deeply but if you're just reading the current writer's run it's usually self contained enough. It's not until you start trying to contextualize different runs together that it gets more complicated. Even like, the X-men which I would consider by far the big superhero title with the most complicated history you'll be mostly fine if you stick with a single writer.>>153413223Because the business model of comic books is retarded and it's a miracle these companies are still in business at all
>>153413007>It's actually easier to read the new series of Batman vs 15 years worth of Naruto.It really isn't. With Batman, there's always a question of which things will be referenced from prior comics, and eventually the numbering will get fucky. No such thing with Naruto.
>>153413058>There's less room for retardation than with comics.>if you want to enjoy a simple pirate story you have to read 1000+ chapters
>>153413303Ya that's true, every manga ever is over 1,000 chapters and One Peice is the only one that's allowed to have a pirate theme
As a human being that exists on human earth and lives with other human beings: the main reason western comics aren't popular is a lack of appeal.Manga has alot of variety, you WILL find something you like within manga, it's not ALWAYS shonen, it's all very well drawn, and there's STANDARDS and good vibes within manga.Comic books... they CAN have variety, they can be really good too, but the landscape for comics is really garbage and aren't talked about as much for a reason. Marvel especially is really trash right now. (DC is much cooler in comparison). It's not like there's no good stories in western comics, it's just, there's aLOT more on the manga side of things, especially within a month. Mangakas make 20 pages a WEEK.Comic book artists make 20 pages a MONTH.in short: you KNOW why manga's kicking the comic industry's butt, you live on this planet.
>>153413445Everything you just wrote is stupid.
>>153413473I doubt it.
>>153413445>Manga has alot of variety, you WILL find something you like within manga, it's not ALWAYS shonen, it's all very well drawn, and there's STANDARDS and good vibes within manga.Note: the only successful manga worth a damn is shounen.
>>153413486100% wrong, you haven't explored anything if that's what you think.
>>153413280The entire point of the status quo is to have a familiar baseline. Sometimes you fuck with it, sometimes shift setting or genre, sometimes you just play it straight, and very rarely you make a permanent change. Episodic and sequential storytelling are two different formats and expecting one to be the other is a you problem. And the reason why western comics are doing so poorly is mostly an issue of distribution and corporate management.>>153413223Stop using the Demon Slayer example, it's a bad fit because Demon Slayer was never a particularly gangbuster selling title during its run. Sales of Demon Slayer spiked due to the release of much more popular anime and film adaptations and haven't reached those highs ever since, it's sudden sales spike is a massive outlier even among popular Japanese franchises. Yes, Demon Slayer outsold the entire American comic industry, but the American comic industry is quite small and Demon Slayer also outsold 30% of the entire worldwide manga market. You're better off pointing to other popular and ongoing franchises.
>>153413445>it's all very well drawn,Yeah, this is a thing i don't like about comics, you can have a run with a good artist but then all of sudden they change the artist with a subpar one, and we all know good art can help sell a book with mediocre writting
I want to know when and how this all became such a problem. Because people didn't use to have this problem. Someone could and would just pick up whatever the current issue was and get it. And this kind of thing doesn't just go with comics. People nowadays can't figure out ANYTHING for themselves without first having to ask for a watch or read or order. Then they need to make sure it's been properly vetted by the community and even THEN they won't give the thing enough time before panicking they don't understand something that hasn't been explained yet.
>>153413534>Episodic and sequential storytellingIf capeshit wasn't "sequential", we wouldn't be wasting time about all of these editorial notes and what came first or not as far as the stories go.If you want to go that metric, maybe the problem is capeshit can't pick either.
>>153413560No the problem is you're retarded who panics the second something is unknown. >Supervillain shows up seeking revenge on hero with an editor note saying the last time they fought. >OH NO I DIDN'T SEE THAT ISSUE SO I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THESE TWO ARE ENEMIES!
>>153411922>while if a new reader picks up the new Batman #1 he has to read the 80 year history of the character to understand what's going on"Well, gee, how many volumes of "One Piece" do you have to read to get the current continuity?
>>153413585Literally nothing to do with what I wrote, or the difference between sequential and episodic.If you just feel like schizoing out, have a good one.
>>153413550>>153413590We live in an age where it's normal to digest a full thing and enjoy it.You can start from the first book, the first episode, the first chapter, the first movie, the first comic of whatever nowadays really easily. That's seen as the norm.One piece, for as long as it is, you understand you start from the first chapter and read from there.And then you come into western comics with decades of history behind them... noobies aren't just gonna accept that they don't know everything, and it's not THAT important to have read the original comic where a character shows up. No. It feels WEIRD, it feels WRONG.
>>153413630It has everything to do with it. The thing with comics is you don't need to run and go get whatever the editor's note is being pointed at. Story's are self contained but they do have a through plot. Episodic doesn't always mean things get reset at the end of the episode. You don't need to know the exact history just that it exists. This is something CHILDREN understood. Star Trek episodes were episodic but they still called back to each other from time to time to tell the ongoing plot.
>>15341350410 best selling manga of 2025 were:The Fragrant Flower Blooms with Dignity: shonenMy Hero Academia: shonenThe Apothecary Diaries: seinenSakamoto Days: shonenBlue Box: shonenKingdom: seinenBlue Lock: shonenDandadan: shonenJujutsu Kaisen: shonenOne Piece: shonenManga has a lot of genre diversity, but lets not kid ourselves that action/adventure shonen isn't the bulk of the popular titles.
>>153413665I literally never said it's an issue to be unaware of a character who shows up the reader might be unacquainted with. But you can't call it "episodic narrative" when capeshit ostensibly run on sequential narrative and always have.Because of that, they offer more illusion of change than actual change, and that'll pick up with your customers fast. Dragon Ball might be the current darling moneymaker, but it's gotten pretty capeshit-y itself and everyone's running through the motions - transformations are mostly new hair colors, Goku keeps being dumbed down than his usual and so on. If you keep your market focus exactly as capeshit comics have, focusing the old guard and distributing to places more favorable to them, having stories that always snap back in place will win little favor with a crowd that has seen nearly everything - or know exactly how to expect a plot to conclude since it has to always go back to recognizability.
>>153413701Who cares about that shit? The absolute MOST POPULAR EVER thing doesn't matter.If you don't wanna read shonen, if you're not in the mood, there's alot of other shit to read. Who the hell lives their life always reading the best sellers? What about YOUR personal individual needs? Are you not worth shit? Are all of your actions dictated by others? There's magical girls, romantic dramas, slice of life, sports, horror... There's alot of other cool stuff that you can read and enjoy, and it doesn't have to be same slop again and again.
Comic series:>Can jump in at a new arc.>Or new creative team.>Often has summary pages and cast of character pages.>Wikis exists.>Collected editions exist. As a kid I would jump into comics absolutely fine and get context as it went on. The problem isn't the confusion, the problem is people are anxious at missing out. Fear of missing out, or FOMO, is a serious problem now. People are obsessed with the lore or whatever. To resolve FOMO you can either: indulge or simply admit something has passed you by. So people would rather just say something has passed them by.Aside from FOMO the other issue is the average person now is apathetic as fuck and has to be spoon fed. Two minutes of research is two minutes too long for them. The average normie doesn't want to:>Read solicits.>Order in advance.>Research books.For me, exploration of the medium is part of the fun of the hobby. Other people now want everything to be handed to them and confusion isn't considered a fun thing to overcome and explore in that pursuit of knowledge. Confusion to them is considered a huge barrier to entry. Comics has loads of entrenched industry and creative issue but so many of these issues are talked around pretty quickly but then you cannot beat the shrug of a normal person who just doesn't care enough to try. These sorts of conversations with people end up boring. Because people don't even want to be convinced, they don't want to try something and have already talked themselves out of it.
If American comics are so good and flawless, why is manga more popular worldwide?
>>153413701I have nothing to add, I just wanted to post this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpna8Qdw0UU
>>153413856>>Wikis exists.You shouldn't need to rely on external sources to understand what's going on, that should be on the book.
>Every day is exactly the same>Every day is exactly the same>There is no love here and there is no pain>Every day is exactly the same
>>153413883>If American comics are so good and flawlessNo one said American comics were good or flawless. This just feels like bait.>why is manga more popular worldwide?The comics industry crashed in the 90s, this destroyed comics as an American past time and up to 50% of the shops closed. At the exact same time, many of the best manga and Japanimation (anime) was being imported. Manga did not have the same cultural baggage as comics did. Comics have shit going all the way back to the CCA meaning comics = for kids. So you have a limping industry not seen as cool vs an expressive outsider. Of course I could talk about format and everything else and all those myriad of other things you have heard of. But ultimately this cultural thing of, comics aren't cool but thing from Japan = cool is there.>>153413906Anon, don't be obtuse, you missed the point. The simple truth is: it is easier than ever to get into comics. The context is really not some insurmountable thing to cross. But people don't like putting in a tiny bit of effort. That's why I mentioned wikis. But you took the most uncharitable meaning and ran with it. The context is there but if you don't want to read it, there are other sources too.>>153413942>Every day is exactly the sameThat's /co/.
I think mangafags are just jealous that comics are so well known everyone can just read it and dont need 5 volumes explaining the whole premise and world
>>153413560Capeshit is episodic, not sequential.>>153413550Dickwaving competition between comic nerds. Knowing a lot of, largely irrelevant, minutia and trivia was seen as a badge of authority within nerd circles and marked you as a "true fan" that started gaining traction in the 90s with the speculator boom. Of course anyone's whose familiar with comics will tell you continuity is rarely complicated but a lot of comic readers continue to push the notion because that's what they were told and they've never stopped to realize that a lack of context will always make something seem complicated.
>>153413779Comics also has that shit if you dig and work for it
>>153413739You're confusing terms. Episodic means self-contained stories. Sequential means that each entry is part of a larger, ongoing story. Batman is episodic, Naruto is sequential, both are serialized. >>153413779Willfully obtuse? The point is that genre or marketed audience diversity isn't the main factor considering the bulk of manga sales are made by titles with the same genre and market as American comics.
>>153413550People are desperately trying to connect via culture, more than ever, because of accelerationism, the intense rate of change (technology, economics, social values) meaning people can't adapt to the now as the ground shifts beneath their feet, so they feel tired and left behind. Nowadays we have no cultural focal points. Mainstream culture attempts to do a focal point but has too much choice, too much stuff being created, leading to choice paralysis whilst at the same time there is paradoxically no choice, because everything in the mainstream drifts towards trying to copy successful trends. The reason why people jump on viral trends so easily is because of shared connection. Wednesday is not an original show but one viral TikTok dance craze later and it's a big hit. These trends are often artificial or feel artificial. They feel forced. The psychology of consumption matters. You put someone in a video store:>Limited by a finite amount of videos available.>What's being advertised. You rent a physical thing and your expectations are more realistic. Even if it's bad you might watch the whole thing to get your money's worth. Nowadays with streaming, who cares, put something else on. Entertainment is cheap and seemingly infinite. People are anxious without the attention span to put effort into a thing to extract worth out of it, especially if they feel like there isn't any social worth in a thing. So it's easy to consume without any worth or meaning. Entertainment is in flux because old mediums lost their relevancy but new mediums still rely on the old somewhat. But there is little value in the new. Just anxiety, consumption and constant high expectations nothing can match.
>Manga is better because it has an ending>It just takes 10 years to get there and will most certainly suck but it's better because it just is!
>>153414386I dont get the manga high horse when we got shit like Chainsaw Man start strong and end on a giant middle finger to fans. You know what the great thing about comics is? If there's one story I dont like, I can likely find another with the same character that I do like
Manga vs American comics is just console wars shit. I consider it all comics and read stuff I enjoy regardless of where it comes from. Fucking amazing how the same thinly veiled east vs west bait still works here.
>>153414424Yeah I haven't like a lot of mainstream comics in decades but if I were just left with the books I did like I wouldn't think I didn't get a complete story.
Most of these stories should've ended decades ago to be honest>>153413153The lack of an expanded universe and only having a single writer helps. I think comicfags are very dishonest about continuity
>>153414473a lot of the time it’s some guy samefagging his own bait, gets pretty blatant with how many lose traction but keep getting bumped just as they hit page 9
>>153411922Yeah we've discussed that hundreds of times
>>153411922No, unlike 95% of manga you can pick up any random comic issue that's the start of a new arc and jump in and enjoy yourself. Some manga like Detective Conan is like that though so it's not an east vs west thing, it's just the difference between monster of the week style storytelling vs long form stories.
>>153411922I started reading X-Men at #185 and caught up very quickly
>>153415384Okay, now what?
>>153415384>Anti-white spiderman
>>153411922It’s literally only a problem of marketing and trendsYou can start any easy read Image Comics series like TWD or Saga or whatever from #1 and have much better experience than most serielized shonen manga And at the top level, what’s considered the best of manga, Urasawa, Otomo, Junji Ito etc doesnt touch the best of euro comics, Druillet, Crepax, Moebius etcManga is more popular because It’s a trend and people catch the habbit young
>>153413101>There's a reason a lot of people skip Berserk's Dark Swordsman arc and start straight at the Golden AgeI think you would be made fun if you did this. might as well skip the whole manga and start at the last page. Who cares right?
>>153413701Not all of that is battle shonen which interesting>KingdomCould a western historical fiction comic get this popular? Anyways that anon is right. Go to any bookstore and you will find plenty of Berserk, vagabond, junji ito etc.
>>153414424>I can likely find another with the same character that I do likeI always disliked that stuff about comics, I am not here to consume the character, I am here to enjoy the story itself. Everyone getting to fuck over the characters I grew to love feels disgusting. Just look at Watchemn, why did they need to make more of it when the original was good enough?
Wow this is completely new information it's amazing what you can find on the world wide web
>>153415550> Could a western historical fiction comic get this popular?Look up Asterix total sales
>>153415593>I always disliked that stuff about comics, I am not here to consume the character, I am here to enjoy the story itself.So do that fuck knuckle. Not liking Amazing Spider-man doesn't mean you can't appreciate the stories in Marvel Adventures. "A STORY" isn't when the fucking book ends forever.
>>153411922Just don't read capeslop. There are plenty of european and independent comics that don't suffer from this. >>153413101>Dragon Ball, which only ever became a true worldwide phenomena with ZThat's about the anime not the manga. I am pretty sure the manga was published starting from the original. I disagree with your overall point, manga in bookshhops are usually numbered from the first volume, no one goes there and picks a random volume. >>153413550I used to read comics like that when I was a kid, especially duck comics but nowadays I am mostly looking for a full story. >>153414386>>153414424The last 5 manga I've read all had good endings. SJ is literally run like capeshit where things are meant to go forever. CSM had a good ending for the 1st part but of course people wanted more.
>>153415612>"A STORY" isn't when the fucking book ends forever.It should be, I am here to read the vision of the creator, not to consume garbage fanfiction. I bet you are the kind of person that is happy how every modern franchise has to reboot the same series again and again and again. More content right? I hate that attitude.
>>153414424>You know what the great thing about comics is?Except for the fuck that comics have ruined all those character after the 90s. 99% of the best runs were made before the 00s and nowadays you only get slop
>>153415593>I am not here to consume the character, I am here to enjoy the story itself. And why would you be incapable of enjoying another story by a different writer made years later, dumbfuck?
>>153415609Isn't Asterix a combination of comedy, sci-fi and fantasy? I was thinking more about something in line with the old 60s(idk) comics that /co/ used to storytime. Those looked more serious.
>>153415681Because the story has already ended. Because Alan Moore has said everything he had to say, the new comics are purely made as cashgrab because the original was popular.
>>153415663>It should be,Why? Every pulp story was written like this. If you read Hour of the Dragon you're not out of the loop because you didn't read Queen of the Black Cost. > I am here to read the vision of the creator, not to consume garbage fanfiction.So do that. You can stop at the end of the Lee Ditko run of Spider-man. You can stop where you want and get that creators vision. You're intentionally being a retard. You said you only care about the stories but now it's CREATORS VISION well you can still do that.
>>153415735>Why? Every pulp story was written like this.That's true but that's just a genre, comics are a whole medium. >So do that. I am doing it, I can still complain about hacks filling the medium with more trash. > You said you only care about the stories but now it's CREATORS VISION well you can still do that.I care about the story told form the perspective of its creator. Funny how you ignore my last question. Are you ok with how slopified franchises like SW has become?
>>153415735>let the corporations keep whoring out these IPs for ever and ever and ever and keep the industry stagnant!! Me likes more content!!
My problem with manga is that It’s sloppified at the top levels, whereas western comics are usually only sloppified at the bottomYou open a random page of 20th century boys and there’s 90% chance you’ll see copy and paste characters doing the exact same facial expression in different panels on the same pageYou have tallented artists like Inio Asano doing Photoshop photo collagesYou have “authors” drawing only the main characters while nameless assistents draw the actual comicAll to cut costSoon every manga will be 70% AI
>>153415783>That's true but that's just a genre, comics are a whole medium.It's a principle that applies to more than just one medium. Radio shows, television, movies etc. >I am doing it, I can still complain about hacks filling the medium with more trash. And you're a bitch for doing so>Are you ok with how slopified franchises like SW has become?No but once again IT DOESN'T MEAN I DISLIKE THE OLD STUFF. This might not be the best platform to say this but for a lot of these stuff you're really NOT meant to be a lifer.
>>153412176>>153414424Come on dude, not even /co/ believes that. Good comics are discussed as a whole because it's interesting to look at the subtle foreshadowing and the character development. You are advocating for stuff being made up on the fly every other issue instead of thoughtful writing as for the >muh multiple writersLol, so that's why people complain about their favorite cartoons/comics franchises now being 10% good and 90% trash instead of being 100% good? Look at Avatar, one of /co/'s most popular cartoon and how everything made after the original has been nothing but trash. I am a bit of an /a/ fag, I don't use the board though, and I am HAPPY that they don't make a shitty sequel to ruin my favorite anime/manga.
>>153411922No.If anything, capeshit has the opposite problem. Despite sharing a canon, stories are generally just contained to runs more than anything else. They are also easily interrupted by a new one starting, or another writer wanting the character for their team, or a company-wide event interrupting shit, and so on and so forth. Writers also have a lot of discretion whether to ignore or change canon as well, and even then, a lot of shit they reference you won't actually need to read to get context, just know that it happened.The bigger question is, why is it that the average person refuses to consider Comics as existing beyond Big Two Capeshit? Like, all of these problems come down to these being treated as properties more than characters, and having their stories long extended past their natural end points in order to appease shitters that "gotta have their bahman." It's gonna happen when some of these BTC cunts are nearly 100 years old. So, why not just read like, OTHER comics? That refusal to check out other shit is why comics are languishing, as people choose to suck shit and spit it out rather than actually reading the good stuff.
>>153415834>Come on dude, not even /co/ believes that.It's impressive how much you missed the point. I'm not advocating any of that. What I'm advocating is that while all that is part of the fun you don't need to do your homework to start.
>>153415828>It's a principle that applies to more than just one mediumIt dominates the capeshit , while the same is not true for movies for example.>And you're a bitch for doing soSO we should just happily accept slop? Never complaining about the state of modern media is why it has reached such an awful place. Are you a zoomer or something?
>>153415800You want to talk about hot garbage look no further than the LN medium. Everything's some fucking REBORN AS THE CHEAT SKILL. The isekai plague that faces Japan is worse than ANYTHING going on in western comics.
>>153415663>I am here to read the vision of the creatorEvery new run of Spider-man is that particular creator’s “vision”
>>153415800Your argument is such a shitty bait that it's not even worth considering .Kek, using Asano the guy known for that. Might as well sue Rob Liefield as one of the most known capeshitters who draws like garbage. >Soon every manga will be 70% AIYou wish, the manga scene will always https://www.comitia.co.jp/ while considering how modern capeshit comics are drawn maybe ai would be an improvement. Don't make me post the pages that even /co/ laughs at
>>153415866>while the same is not true for movies for example.Yeah because we've never seen franchises sequels and reboots. I really wanted to see this one James Bond movie but sadly I didn't see the first three. >SO we should just happily accept slop?You're also illiterate. I've been complain for a long time now and you know what I've learned from it? That it absolutely doesn't do anything. I just don't want to spend my life bitching about kiddie crap when there's still plenty of enjoy. You don't need to turn your entire life into a massive tantrum.
>>153415834>I am HAPPY that they don't make a shitty sequel to ruin my favorite anime/mangaNot that it applies, but it's worth noting that Dragon Ball has definitely gotten a taste of this. Multiple tastes, in fact, between GT, Super (forma de los Manga), Super (forma de los Anime), and Daima. All doing their own little things that have retconned shit, disrespected previous stories, and many other sins that comic readers complain about.It's just not mentioned as much because it's Dragon Ball. Not only was it schlock to begin with, but even the fans will argue it already suffered such things in its original run, with the shift into the sci-fi with the Saiyan Saga and stuff like the SSJ Kids in the Buu Saga.
>>153415711>Because the story has already endedIt’s just another story, dum-dum.
>>153415868>The isekai plague that faces Japan is worse than ANYTHING going on in western comics.The isekai make for an extremely small percentage of manga but I agree with you. isekai is exactly like capeshit and that's why I hate it. We finally see eye to eye.
>>153415879Too bad that modern creators have a garbage vision because they only consume other comics. >>153415891>I really wanted to see this one James Bond movie but sadly I didn't see the first three.Ok, now name 500 movie franchises that do the same. Do it. > I just don't want to spend my life bitching about kiddie crap when there's still plenty of enjoy.I am not spending my life on it, I just do it occasionally when the opportunity arrives, hell it's actually beneficial because you can teach some younglings about the good old stuff. Anyways the discussion is meaningless because in the end my point was that having 10000 creators doesn't add that much surplus. Maybe just another decent comic that will never be as good as the original.
>>153415897One that shits on Moore's legacy. making a franchise where every new entry doesn't even come close to the original. Basically destroying "the brand".
>>153415887Wasn't there a recent scandal because some anime studio was caught using AI? That's just the mentality over there, keep the industrial machine running, publish weekly at any cost
>>153415931>Ok, now name 500 movie franchises that do the same. Do it.The entire horror genre will cover this quite nicely by it's lonesome.
>>153415892DB does not come even close to being my favorite manga, for all its fart jokes Dr Slump was better. >>153415862>I'm not advocating any of that.Are you the first anon I've quoted? I agree that you don't need to do your homework but I still think great comics should be enjoyed from the 1st issue for the reasons I've listed.
>>153415953>Wasn't there a recent scandal because some anime studio was caught using AI?Which they removed lol. >That's just the mentality over there, keep the industrial machine running, publish weekly at any costExcept for the fact that most manga magazines are not weekly. Stop with the shitty arguments when capeshit looks even worse than weekly shonenshit. Do you want me to post panels?
>>153415931>Ok, now name 500 movie franchises that do the same. Do it.Sherlock Holmes BatmanSupermanSpider-manHercule PoirotGolgo 13Lupin IIIFrankensteinNemuri KyoshiroFemale Prisoner ScorpionAddams FamilyHalloweenDracula
>>153415945So what. You keep moving the goalposts
>>153411922There are no new readers though. Western comics only survive because of existing ocd collectors who can't stop themselves from buying and get exploited by crossovers. Also no manga has been around for half the length of time Superman or Batman has. One Piece for example only started in the mid 90's and even then it will end because the story reaches a conclusion whilst Superman will only end because of sales dropping too low. Reboots are the attempt to address the problem in Western comics but don't leave long enough between them to work properly and just tell the same stores over
>>153415609>asterixSeriously?/co/cksuckerYou can't go out with an IP address that's over 60 years old.A com*c literally from the baby boomers.Tell me,¿What would be the modern equivalents of /co/ for Isaak, Golden Kamuy, Arte?
>>153411922It's a marketing issue, it's really easy to jump into a writer's first issue of an established brand and read the arc, but there'll be a bunch of Heroman #1s not making it clear which one to choose. Or it'll partway through like #42. Then there's the issue of the lead writer dropping out and a worse writer finishing/stretching things out, but that's a different matter.
>>153415957It's quite the opposite there, most horror fans usually agree that the first 2 entries from most horror entries are good while the other tend to get shittier and less scary>>153415980I am waiting for the others. Anyways as long as my last point was made clear you don't need to continue this if you don't want to.
>>153415959>fan of /a/ material>is a speedreader, even of the posts he's replying toMakes sense.
>>153415985How am I moving the goalposts where I've already shared the same opinion in the post you've quoted here >>153415711. Did you only read the 1st part?
>>153415845>why is it that the average person refuses to consider Comics as existing beyond Big Two Capeshit?Do you mean this?>>153415999
>>153413303Of all the manga out there One Piece is the easiest to stop reading. Every arc, especially pre-TS, pretty much ends on "and then they sailed away to find the One Piece." There's not a definitive ending yet but main universe comics don't have one either.
>>153416017???I know that the he said that>Not that it applies,I was just reccing him a better manga(at least imo)Chill out dude.
>>153415834>and I am HAPPY that they don't make a shitty sequel to ruin my favorite anime/manga.See you say that but it makes me wonder something about anime. Because suits aren't famous for artistic integrity it makes me ask, is it simply that they don't, or is a matter that they CAN'T?
>>153413223Manga is doing well overall but for Demon Slayer I'd argue that's more due to the great advertising by Ufotable, the manga isn't anything special.
>>153411922I've already said it in the last thread but the last shonene manga I've read had none of the things I usually dislike in capeshit. Anyways, if you enjoy capeshit then enjoy it in peace. You shouldn't care about what other people think
>>153416046They probably don't make a sequel for Ping Pong because the original director probably wouldn't be on board and I don't think it was extremely popular to begin with. They usually make sequels and reboots for franchise anniversaries. If the anime was an anime original then in order to promote it they sometimes make a recap movie or a small short.
>>153415494/co/pe & seethe
>>153415999New asterix books sell 5 million copies each
>>153416069wasn't this like a decade agouse modern cringe
>>153415834>I am HAPPY that they don't make a shitty sequel to ruin my favorite anime/manga.GitS says hi. The endless Fate series would like to remind you they exist. Black Jack didn’t stop from getting new manga and anime after Tezuka died. Golgo13 ans Lupin keep on trucking without their original creators. Hey remember when Astro Boy got remase as Pluto? I lost count how many times Devilman has had a new spinoff made.
>>153415494>Saga Come on now, Saga? You could have picked any other example. Plenty of comics and shonen manga are so much better than saga. >And at the top level, what’s considered the best of manga, Urasawa, Otomo, Junji Ito etc doesnt touch the best of euro comics, Druillet, Crepax, Moebius etcOtomo is definitely on par with them when it comes to drawing but I don't think Urasawa and Junji to are the best of manga . There are other more prominent and older mangaka that are on par with those. Even shonen has Ashita no Joe which is a great manga.
>>153416090But none of those are my favorite anime and manga? I like some Lupin/GITS entries and Golgo 3 only had like 2 Dezaki movies and a short series from what I remember. Nagai Go's franchises are pretty similar to capeshit I don't contest that but that has nothing to do with my original post. I've said my "favorite anime and manga".
For anyone wondering, the youtuber is Comical Opinions and the video is Why Marvel & DC Are Failling; The Comic Shop Trap
>>153416166>The Comic Shop TrapI like Traps
>>153416074school supply shit
>>153411922He's correct. The problem isn't that people have to start from the first issue, it is that there are multiple universes that are completely different from the adaptation that drew them in.
>>153416213That’s not a problem either
>>153416227It is for newcomers
>>153412176>in the 80s through 2000sI am curious. Do you do that nowadays? Do you, as an adult, just grab a random issue from whatever new capeshit comics? Do you do the same for old capeshit comics?
>>153416229It is not, it is a made up bullshit by people who don’t even want to read comics
>>153416237Then explain why they have no problems reading manga
>>153416231Yes. You do that every time you buy a collection of old runs you never read before
>>153416254>You do that every time you buy a collection of old runsSo you never start with the 1st issue? What about omnibuses or collected famous beloved runs?
>>153416252>Problem is Apples>Explain Oranges! The problem we have here is that retards are equating unrelated parallel issues. The truth of the matter is non of these problem are related. People aren't dropping comics to go read manga. they're different audiences.
>>153416264stuff like the DC Finest line has been a great way to get into shit.
>>153416267>People aren't dropping comics to go read mangai've met plenty of people that did
>>153416244The few families in france buy that boomer crap for kids to pretend they're good parents. But that's what it is: crap kindergarten.
>>153416252Because manga is now considered cool while comics aren’t. It’s pure cultural shift
>>153416264Not every collection starts with #1 dummy.
>>153415783>Why? Every pulp story was written like this.>>That's true but that's just a genre, comics are a whole medium. This whole discussion is about the genre of Big 2 Superhero Comics!!!
>>153414192>The point is that genre or marketed audience diversity isn't the main factor considering the bulk of manga sales are made by titles with the same genre and market as American comics.Nta but >The Fragrant Flower Blooms with Dignity>The Apothecary Diaries>Blue Box>Kingdom>Blue LockDo not share the same market as comics.
>>153416345they are a pretty big part of the american comic market thoughever
>>153416099Akira is amazingfor a mangabut It’s not something you can simply recommend to someone who simply enjoys fine art and doesnt care about comics or manga in particular, while you could do so with Crepax’s work And not because It’s more accessible, on the contrary reallyManga is fixed on genre, demographics and tropes even at the top levelsThere’s a charm in the the great manga authors having this more low brow quality, but It’s something that has to be taking into account if youre making the comparison
>>153414679>I think comicfags are very dishonest about continuityI think every moron in this thread is being honest they’re just fucking stupid and ignorant of everything outside their capeshit bubble
>>153416286And I've met plenty of anecdotal evidence too!
>>153416231>Do you, as an adult, just grab a random issue from whatever new capeshit comics? Do you do the same for old capeshit comics?This is interesting but I don't think in the way the Anon means just because it shows how the market has changed. Like with any comic on the market now if I wanted to read it there's a 99% chance I'd go to back issues to the first issue with that creative team at least. But I have a couple of Silver and Bronze Age DC Finest and those I do sometimes just flip to a random issue and as long as it's not "2 of 4" or whatever in the title I'll just read it.
>>153416387>but It’s not something you can simply recommend to someone who simply enjoys fine art and doesnt care about comics or manga in particular, while you could do so with Crepax’s workDo you have any proof for that?>Manga is fixed on genre, demographics and tropes even at the top levelsExtremely wrong, Kakukaku Shikajika, Shintarou's works, Taniguchi's works, Takemitsuzamurai(and other Tayiou manga). Even in the bl market you have Keiko's works. You don't know what you are talking about
>>153416409Fine, comics are perfect the way they are and the industry is doing great and everyone that says otherwise are liers. Is that what you wanted to hear?
>>153416387>shintarouYou mean Shintaro Kago? If so, couldn’t be a better exemple of what I described
>>153416409Do you not evetalk to people outside of here?
>>153413153I mean its still just 1 to 600. With anything else its 1 to 40 and then 1 to 20 and then some tie ins for some event and then more nunber 1s and all. Plus one can just buy Bleach 1 to 600. It seems simpler even if the number is also huge. But its still simpler
>>153416465Meant for >>153416423
>>153416475>>153416465Yes. let me guess is the only mangaka you've heard of from the ones I've mentioned since you have no idea about manga and Dementia 21 was published in Fantagraphics. It's a nice work of surrealist comedy.
>>153416388 #>I think every moron in this thread is being honest they’re just fucking stupid and ignorant of everything outside their capeshit bubbleThat, or they are just arguing for the sake of arguing, i wanna believe people can't be this retarded but some of the replies makes me doubt that
>>153413534The problem with said status quo tho is that at the end of the day theres no investment. Everything snaps back to how things were. Editorial will gladly spit in your face like how Spider-Man editorial does for the sake of the status quo. Why would anyone invest time and dedication to these stories when eventually anything you like about a run will simply seize to exist and even then they somehow keep the worst aspects of the run for some reason.Peter was about to propose to MJ and move forward in some aspect. Next run? Flushed down the toilet in such an extreme way that one has to ask, why? Sure status quo but why in such an extreme way? Regardless of who you want for Peter instead that is such a slap to the face of anyone who legitimately thought something would happen or was enjoying the run that it leaves a sour taste in people's mouths. I can guarantee you that outside of distribution and corporate there are many who won't buy a book for this reason. I mean why buy books from people who can't seem to care even if just a little about these stories beyond the profit. Why care or buy and follow a story that will end with the equivalent of "it was just a dream" its just insulting at that point. In manga things you don't like can still happen. But at least the story moves forward. I won't get hit with 200 different variations of "fuck you dear reader we begin again in the status quo" or anything. I can at least know when a story ends it ended. Maybe theres a sequel sure. But it at least won't just reset about 20 times just to rinse and repeat.
>Western comics are just superheroesSHUT THE FUCK UPIf people just nitpicked and whined about muh tie-ins and too many issues dating decades why are they not reading indie comics which is the automatic answer to all their problems when they are usually short, start from muh sacrosanct #1 and are done by one single creator team? Oh right because those complaints are not actually the fundamental reason why people don’t want to read comics.
>>153416542>The problem with said status quo tho is that at the end of the day theres no investment. This is a made up (YOU) problem. Other people don’t have this issue.
>>153416563>Other people don’t have this issueYeah, only the ever dwindling audience of an aging fanbase don't
>>153416542>But at least the story moves forwardLOLLMAO evenThere’s endless bitching about muh filler arcs and no real progression happening because snail speed pacing in manga. People literally drop series all the time because they get bored with how slow a series is when it barely has anything happening in a single volume or suddenly it adds more clutter by introducing new characters out of nowhere and the cast just keeps growing without most of them ever mattering that much
>>153416563also I think anon is just mad about Spider-Man because like most of the big heroes I can think of off the top of my head don't have that kind of rug pull. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the FF, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, I don't know if any have that kind of forced narrative like anon is complaining about. Like maybe you can argue ending Krakoa for X-Men is like that but even then they did tell a story about why it ended and a bridge to the new status quo.
>>153416563Ah yes because nobody else has ever complained about this or the ever resetting status quo or the fact a future writers can come in and say "I hate this, let me just rearrange everything" definetly just me. Do you like getting spit in your face constantly then by editorial?
>>153416542>wwaaaaaahhhhh waaaahhhhh waahhhhhThen go read Asterix, you fucking baby
>>153416582But isn't that still moving away from the status quo? I don't think you got that anon's point.
>>153416605Grow up.
>>153416582>pacing issuesGuess what? You can drop it for a few months and come back and have more to read>fillerAnime only usuallyNone of these means the story doesn't move forward in some capacity anyways. Its not a perfect medium but it moves forward in some way anyways. Enjoy your 50th reboot tho then. To be clear its not like manga is flawless or perfect. Personally I do wanna read and get into comics and know how to. I just don't know if I want to due to what I said. I guess I could expand onto other characters but not many call my attention other than current absolute univer from DC.
>>153416612Doesn't everyone complain on this website and even this thread? Whats your point. I swear people try to hard sometimes here to be le rude and le edgy lol
>>153416612>>153416618Damn comicfags sure don't like when they critizice the industry
>>153416511Yes, that’s the only one I know from the ones you mentionedI’ve read the Princess of the Never-ending Castle by him tooI liked it very muchBut you brough him up as someone you consider top shelf. Do you desagree that his work doesnt have high brow pretensions? I dont think Im being unfair hereIm saying that the top mangaka dont aim as high as the top western comic artists, particularly in Europe
>>153416592Someone never read teenage Tony Iron Man, Thor getting rid of its midgard support cast during Simpnson’a run when Blake identity was completely gotten rid of and Sigurd didn’t stay relevant for more thah handful of issues, when Steve died and came back, when Bruce moved to the penthouse or more recently dropped Batman Inc. status quo, when Superman was a web platform reporter before suddenly we’re back to doing newspaper again, etc.
>>153416627>Enjoy your 50th reboot tho then.I just have to be pedantic here but DC has only rebooted twice, in the 80s with Crisis and in 2011 with new 52, and even then some stuff carried over (mainly Batman). Marvel has never rebooted, technically after Hickmans Secret Wars in the mid-00s they did but no history actually changed.
>>153416660I saw the show about teenage iron man does that count? Nta
>>153416627>You can drop it for a few months and come back and have more to readYou mean years, if you can even be bothered to pick it up again>Anime only usuallyNo, manga usually
>>153416668Soft reboots have been a thing since at least 20 years and you know that
>>153416668Okay yeah they haven't fully rebooted. But you know what I mean. Their "soft resets" because for some reason they can't commit to a reboot. And Marvel never has for some reason either. They sure love their ongoing universe that somehow has shit happening in the span of 2 years or so. Plus idk why they don't reboot desu. Its not like they wouldn't benefit from it at this point.
>>153416672>Manga usuallyI have never heard of someone complain about filler in Manga. Pacing? Sure. Hajime no ippo has been on the same arc for about 10 years or so? I think. But never filler in Manga. >bother to pick it up againIt happens. I binge read and drop things all the time if stop. But when i get going I read it all if able to. Like god of highschool was a fun read for me. And Tokyo ghoul as well.
>>153416641Try making better critique than “I pretend to care about western comics but all I ever do is whine about my pet grievances related to superhero comics and pretend other comics that don’t have said problems don’t exist because it would invalidate my entire narrative”
>>153416706Then you’re a fake manga reader
>>153416653>Do you desagree that his work doesnt have high brow pretensions?Depending on what you mean by high brow. Explain yourself. Can comedies be high brow?> dont think Im being unfair here Im saying that the top mangaka dont aim as high as the top western comic artists,You are unfair because you don't know much about manga. Come on you haven't even read Taniguchi? REALLY? Do you only read Fantagraphics stuff?
>>153416707At that point no criticism is valid for manag or comics cause there will always be ones that don't follow the same path and you can't criticize due to that. Any criticism here is mostly about shonen. So seinen doesn't have the same writing style as shonen therefore criticism invalid. What that? Criticism about seinen? Well theres another genere that doesn't have the same issues, Invalid. I may be a retard I'll admit. But criticism is still criticism. I'm the anon that made the huge post not the one you are replying to.
>>153411922And the crossovers. It wouldn't be so bad if you dip in Hero #235 only to tell you to read Justice League #457 and Superhuman #31, and the next issue of Hero takes place after those only to crossover with another book.
>>153416713Then you are a fake /co/ user because people here have always bitched about "filler" being a meaningless word unless it's in the context of shonen adaptations.
>>153416684I need examples! Also what are we even arguing about? The original complaint is about plot not moving forward but like, I’m not reading Batman to see how his war against crime ends, I’m reading to see how this character I like deals with this story by storytellers I like.>>153416686So it sounds like you’re really just complaining about Marvels sliding timeline? Which I mean fair, I just think that’s an easy thing to get over.
>>153416713I don't care. I have read manwha, manga, some comics but very little, watched cartoons, watched anime, etc. Don't care what makes me real or not since I don't usually socialize much anyways with people who are hard-core about these things anyways
>>153416734That doesn’t mean manga doesn’t have filler
>>153416730Maybe you shouldn’t generalise while you act like your simplistic takes have any real merit to them
>>153416755Define filler.
>>153416739Nah my major complaint is like I said with Spider-Man for example. Writers can come in and destroy anything that was being built up by the previous writer, the status quo is ever non changing to the point its a detriment and stagnant, editorial likes spitting in people's faces. This applies more to Spider-Man than anything and I do understand that. I imagine it can apply to other characters as well but I'm not super knowledgeable about them. Mostly that really. And I do think this can affect sales as well. Spider-Man is a major seller as a whole tho. They can shit out a comic about him on the toilet and it'll sell. And again I know it depends on the characters. Like you said, Batman will never end either but the interesting thing about him is how he deals with each situation and how his plot armor will save him lol. Plus we all know Beuce would rather die as Batman than anything else.About marvels timeline. Its not an issue for me. I just think its dumb since if we go by OMD for example I am supposed to believe every major thing has happened in the span of like 2 years lol.
>>153411922My problem isn't the decades of comics (though that is a daunting challenge for a new reader who doesn't know how to approach comics), my problem is all the crossover bullshit I'm expected to read to understand what the fuck is going on, reading just Batman is going to have you very confused when events are going on.
>>153416764I mean isn't every complaint or criticism here a generalization? Didn't realize i needed some over complex take to be able to say something here. My bad then
>>153416514For sure but this board is extra stupid belligerent about comics. There are current threads about comics on other boards that mog the entire catalog here with actual discussion, people come here for a dick weighing and cannot cope with the idea they don’t know their shit.
>>153416773Yeah you’re clearly buttmad about Spider-man to a degree that I’d see a therapist about it
>>153416785>There are current threads about comics on other boardsName 1
>>153416795>Yeah you’re clearly buttmad about Spider-manTbh, who wouldn't?
>>153416775How do you people not know how to use wikipedia? Jesus H. Christ. There’s even endless summary channels and fan wikis if you can’t handle crossover tie-ins
>>153416795Lmao I'm here out of boredom and lack of sleep. Not fuming or anything. Its just my thoughts on it. Maybe i coukd have worded it in a better and fancier way as to get my point across?
>>153416797See what I mean?
>>153416820?? I want to see the thread
>>153412176>and they'll most certainly tell you they started with some random ass high numberJust because these people were ok with starting something in the middle of a storyline and then getting past "important" storylines getting spoiled as they kept reading and past events come up, does not mean everyone is ok with it, evidence to the fact that in the 80s through the 200s comics were a niche hobby and the readers were all considered losers by the general populace.With time these hobbies like comic books, animation or video games kind of escaped that stigma but comics are still the only one that hasn't grown, and it's exactly because of that reason, nowadays you're competing with streaming services that let you pick something up from the very start, you don't have to just drop down in the middle of a storyline and just keep going from there, this pigheadedness in refusing to adapt says a lot.And of course there's also the price, comics are simply too expensive.
>>153416809A mature adult who can handle serialised fiction being entertainment that is never going to “progress” or “end” because that is not what it is for. If you don’t like a particular run you can always stop reading until the next guy/gal takes over. Rinse and repeat. You don’t have to be a petulant child throwing tantrums all the time, you know. You can stop at any time and do something else. You should have figured this out by the time you could legally buy beer
>>153416811So you want me to read a comic while using wikipedia to fill in the blanks in my knowledge of characters and ongoing events? That sounds terrible.
>>153416812Writing walls of text about Marvel is doing things to Spider-man out of spite is not exactly casual thoughts written out of boredom
>>153416838>If you don’t like a particular run you can always stop reading until the next guy/gaFor some character I've been waiting for a new good run for almost 20 years...
>>153416820Yep, arguing for the sake of arguing
>>153413101>There's a reason a lot of people skip Berserk's Dark Swordsman arc and start straight at the Golden AgeNobody does that. That's... really moronic, and seeing someone say something like this on /co/ of all places is just... LOL. The Dragonball anime was popular worldwide, it's in the US that it took off with Z.>>153416046In Japan they don't make sequels much in general. Even their live action drama series are mostly one and done seasons or 2. The ones that get 5+ seasons are rare. In general they do not dwell on the past and are always looking for the new great thing.>>153416065Ping Pong is an adaptation of a manga, you moron.
>>153416838Nta but the original one that made the post.Sure but whats your point? One can enjoy things and criticize them. I like how so far people have just mostly told me "grow up" "enjoy it or don't " etc. Also not throwing a tantrum. I didn't realize high society hanged out here tho and its off limits to make a long rant about something>>153416851What can I say? I have a lot of time spent in my own head so I already know what to type and all. Not a hard thing to do. Butni am bored tho.
>>153411922Naruto is a comic, manga just the marketing term in the west because it makes it look foreign and different it's all the same shit, how about you quit complaining about things dying or whatever and just read a fucking comic book no matter what it is and if it seems confusing figure it out yourself you're an adult grow up if some kid in the 1980s could figure out shit you could figure it out also it's a broad massive medium so quit generalizing shit retard the same conversations over and over again it's all meaningless just read fucking comics. Comics will never die as long as somebody exists that wants to make comics so who cares fuck you anon.
>>153416851A second ago you were challenging anon to a Marvel trivia war with you and now that they delivered you refuse to engage with what they have to say and insult them, what happened to you?
>>153416832>you're competing with streaming services that let you pick something up from the very start, you don't have to just drop down in the middle of a storyline and just keep going from there, this pigheadedness in refusing to adapt says a lot.>And of course there's also the price, comics are simply too expensive.Marvel and DC both have digital services with pretty decent libraries for like about 10 bucks a month.
>>153415834>and I am HAPPY that they don't make a shitty sequel to ruin my favorite anime/manga.THIS! One of my favorite artists(and also anime writer) is Abe Yoshitoshi. Ryushika Ryushika and Haibane Renmei are both great and didn't need to get a reboot or a sequel or anything like that and I am happy that another writer didn't try his hand at making another story in those universes.
>>153411922That's just wrong. I didn't start Spider-man with Amaeing Fantasy 15, I had my start with a book collecting a random story arc of Spider-man becoming amnesiac and then tricked into becoming Doc Ock's acolyte.And honestly, its mostly the Big 2 that have problems, but because they are overrepresented, people assume that they are the whole american comic book industry.
>>153416885The issue is anon is extrapolating issues for an entire genre/industry from one mismanaged franchise
>>153416878>Ping Pong is an adaptation of a manga, you moron.I know that, I've read the manga. The anon that was talking about anime so that's why I mentioned the anime myself. Why do you to insult me like that?
>>153411922>>153412176>>153413071>>153413223>>153413445>>153413550>>153413856>>153416048JUSTREADNON-CAPECOMICS
>>153416903Ping Pong Club > Ping Ponghttps://youtu.be/qjzGs-ZcN1Y
>>153416913No read all comics know everything about it, from European stuff to shojo to Tijuana Bibles read it fucking all read everything
>>153416882>Comics will never dieNo medium can truly die but big 2 capeshit might die(not the idea of superheroes in itself)>>153416878>Nobody does that. That's... really moronic, Lmao this. People would laugh at you for doing skipping it.
>>153416924Those characters are always living some form.
How do mangakas manage to write+illustrate sometimes two mangas at a time while comics need 2 writers and 5 artists not counting the editors and still release at a slowrr pace.Is it the colouring?
>>153416930This is a good question i think. I don't know the answer but it is something kinda funny. But at the same time many mangakas end up with health problems due to such a schedule tho
>>153416930Assistants dumbass, Japan's industry being fucked and not crediting them makes people think that manga artist actually pumped shit out weekly when that's actually super rare and they have a bunch of people doing that shit for them while they do very little.
>>153416930You do know mangakas have, like, 3~5 assistants? See what happened to the CSM author once his assistants peaced out to do their own things.
>>153416930>need 2 writers????? Why would the need 2 writers?
>>153416950The big names,.sure, but theres many who have like 0.ONE is currently writing for 4 series and fully illustrating one of them all by himself(altho to be fair that one isnt weekly.)
>>153416841If you have time to whine about not understanding a crossover you didn’t want to read you can google it, dipshit
>>153416954Thats what im saying
>>153416930You do realize newspaper people do everything by themselves daily and there's probably plenty of American examples there's examples from both sides and why does it matter how many stuff they put out quality over quantity. Most comic and manga artists that just pumps shit out suck.
>>153413020Just give them the Skypiea arc.
>>153416923That's not the fucking point If you already dislike relaunches, crossovers, the entire fucking superhero genre, etcFine, okay, whateverYou cannot be convinced to read those works but you can still easily get into comics and NEVER touch a single issue of Marvel or DC
>>153416878>In Japan they don't make sequels much in generalI see we’ve reached “I will just make shit up” phase of cope
>>153416930Between 2 and 5 assistants. The mangaka is mainly doing roughs and layouts to hand off to their team.
>>153416913I am >>153416048 and I do read non-capeshit comics.
>>153416990What a team. Damn
>>153416983Shut up and read comics I don't care all I see is wah wah wah.
>>153416983>You cannot be convinced to read those works but you can still easily get into comics and NEVER touch a single issue of Marvel or DCIts fucking easy too. I just browsed Images website and lo and behold, 8 out of 10 of the comics there are not capeshit.>>153416990CSM is hilarious: once the assistants were out doing their own things, the art immediatly turned to shit.
>>153416719I’m using “highbrow” because I’m using it next to “pretensions”, as in not something that is necessarily inherently in the work, but that is or isn't on his mind as he makes his art. I don’t think he set out to push the frontier of art when he made Dementia 21 or The Princess in the Never-Ending Castle and you can feel it as you read it and it’s fine on its own merit. I’d still maintain that it’s harder to find that other sort of thing in manga, and maybe you'll say I’m not qualified to make that judgment and that's ok but that's been my experience — I thought that the mangaka that were recommended as among the best lacked pretension and were a lot of the time very comfortable within genre and tropes. The same faces, drawn in the same angles, making the same reactions we are all familiar with
>>153416913>JUST>READ>NON-CAPE>COMICSMajority of those are talking heads serving as mouthpiece of the writer, and feel like rejected Netflix shows. Plus shit art because why try when majority of the pages are two characters talking from the waist up.
>>153417014>Shut up and read comicsYeahAnd not all comics are capeshitConflating the ENTIRETY of the medium and industry with ONE genre and TWO publishers is asinineI want more people reading comics as much as youI just think convincing people to read comics that are specifically of a genre that they are clearly not interested in or has a history of messy continuity and editorial decisions that also disinterest them is a lost cause.You direct your energy into finding and recommending something you're actually confident that these people would like rather than try to shove Batman down their throats even after they said no.
People complain about capeshit being everywhere in comics, but how are shonens (sometime seinens) any different. Sure, the interconnected 'verse is not there, but you look at the most popular stuff and it will be mostly about young people with superpowers (called gifts, devil fruits, etc...) fighting bad guys. The core is the same.Hell, a lot of classic mangas are capeshit, see Devilman, Casshern, Atom, and even super robots like Mazinger/Grendizer, Getter etc...
>>153417048Lack.of the interconnected hyperverse lets them tell a story with themes that starts at chapter 1 and reached some sort of a conclusion by chapter 100 without weird crossovers dictated by popularity charts like WHAT IC JUGGERNIGGERNAUGHT WAS SPIDERMANAHAT IF HE WAS VENOMWHAT IF HE WAS A MUUUTANTWHAT IF HE HAD THE SHIELD BRO.... THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES....
You guys could just read stuff instead of complaining on here and reading people's posts you know I should read something I have a whole shelf of books I haven't read damn I'm lazy.
>>153417057>>153417048Your compelling narrative, sire.
>>153417027So you explore your damn horizonsYou think Millar-esque crap is blatant Hollywood tier bait?You think the same creatives who have long worked on Marvel and DC titles doing their own thing are shooting themselves in the foot to make their comics as adaptation friendly as possible?You find the "bigger" non-Marvel/DC publishers to be gentrified?Okay, just find something elseBrowse through comics from before The Walking Dead debuted on AMCGo through small publishers and comics with more abstract art styles
>>153417062I've read the Warren Ellis superhero trilogy recently. P good. Short, sweet and to the point.
>>153417025>I’d still maintain that it’s harder to find that other sort of thing in manga, and maybe you'll say I’m not qualified to make that judgment and that's ok but that's been my experience — I thought that the mangaka that were recommended as among the best lacked pretension and were a lot of the time very comfortable within genre and tropes.But that's bullshit, the mangaka you've mentioned, Junji ito or Urasawa are the most popular seinen manga not the most "highbrow' ones. Crepax’s works are not the most well known comics either so your logic is bullshit. There are so many that explore a vast majority of concepts. Read Taniguchi and if you want to start from the beginning check Tezuka's body of works, you most likely find something there since that man loved to experiment.
>>153417069The last thing I read was The Last Arkham I enjoyed it.
>>153417048Look at >>153413701. Only half of that list is people with super powers fighting while the other isn't.
>>153417025Read Blame.
>>153417057>>153417063When did I even mention this or comics being better than mangas.Also, why are you acting like mangas doesn't have any problems, like Luffy turning out to be the reincarnation of some god, Ichigo being some weird mutt of 99 races so he can get the transformation of the week or OH MY RUBBER NEN. Now I admit I don't read those and its all hearsays, but the fact that I've heard about it is pretty telling imo.And Japan DOES interconnected universes, Fate/Whatever for example had all of the myths happen at the same time regardless of it making sense, and in fact employ multiverses like Marvel/DC. Then you have a Gundam, whose UC has been picked up by different writers and iterated upon well after Tomino stopped writing for it.This is not me saying Comics or Mangas are superior to each others, I am just saying they are not so differents.
>>153416878>In Japan they don't make sequels much in general.Trick is three seasons, four movies, three TV specials and even a spin off show with two seasonsFuruhata Ninzaburō had four seasons and multiple specials.Toshiro Mifune’s Yojimbo had several film sequels and TV series, some more official than others but he’s basically accepted of playing the same characterGodzilla has over 30 filmsZatoichi has 28 movies and a tv show with four seasonsKodoku no Gurume has ten seasons and nearly dozen specialsUnification of Japan has like 73 entries and numerous spinoffs Sleepy Eyes of Death has over twenty films and multiple different tv shows with different lead actorsTruck Rascals had ten filmsOtoko wa Tsurai Yo has a TV show, an animated show and 50 official films to its nameHanzo the Razor has five moviesPrison Walls of Abashiri has two different film series totalling 18 filmsBaby Assassins has three films, one tv show and they cameo in one other film b before getting their own franchise Japan fucking loves sequels.
>>153417109Japan does all the same things the West does when it comes to Media the only reason their comics usually don't keep going with different creators I think it's just a respect thing or they get so many submissions they don't bother even though legally they probably could and there are a few that have like Shin Chan and Dragon Ball
>>153417048Tbh I feel like shonenshit manga and capeshit series have very different audiences(not to mention the hundreds of non-action manga). And the audiences for mecha are even more different, of course you have different type of mecha series. >>153417102>Fate/Whatever for example had all of the myths happen at the same time regardless of it making senseThe original visual novel explained it pretty well.
>>153417079But its the same with american comics. Out of my head, popular comics that don't involve supes:>Hellboy >Saga >Walking Dead>Conan the Barbarian adaptations >Sin CityIf anything, its just proves that both Mangas and Comics have that "superheroes are overrepresented" problem.
>>153417143>But its the same with american comicsPost the top selling american comics of 2025.>that "superheroes are overrepresented"That's extremely wrong though. There are more slice of life manga than any superheroes manga in japan. I don't think it even fits in the top 5 genre you would find in manga.
>>153417151>There are more slice of life manga than any superheroes manga in japan.One Piece, Bleach, Centuria and all of this are superhero flick with semantics. Its not because you call your superpower a "gift" or a "quirk" that it stop being a superpower. Especially when you use them against Evil guys.
>>153417176Yes and my point still remains, there are more sol manga than manga with super powers because the japs love SoL.
>>153417189Sure, but the most overrepresented kind of manga are battle shonen with "superheroes".
>>153411922No I don't agree with that and anyone claiming comics are dead for any other reason than they got super faggy around the late 2000s is coping
>>153417372>most overrepresented kind of manga are battle shonen with "superheroes".They aren't. Check out all the magazines releasing stuff and you will see that there is more SoL/more comedies/more drama series. The equivalency doesn't work and I don't know why you are insisting on it. It's not like SoL is appealing to everyone, you can always say that superheroes in comics are like sol in manga.
>>153417375>any other reason than they got super faggy around the late 2000s is copingVariant covers?Blind bags?Events?
>>153417435All surmountable obstacles if the comics were actually cool and made to appeal to young men. They were gay and static instead, appealed to no one and now here we are
>>153416984Cope for what? I just said they don't do it much. They have their franchising, too but stuff like Sentai and Kamen Rider which is... really, just aimed at really young kids that will grow out of it or turbo autists. Even then, each series is pretty independent from each other. They don't milt shit like in the US with Supernatural or Lost or the like going for several to over a dozen seasons.>>153417109Brother, you named 12 franchises and for someone you even had to go back over 50 years. If in 50 years you only have 12 franchises that says a lot.
>>153417176Nah, you're just obsessed with this pseudo genre called superheroes. You need to grow up.
>>153417451Fuckface, that was just handful of examples that already disproves the claim Japan doesn’t do sequels. I’m not going to waste my time listing all the variables sequels and multi tv season and film franchises that exist in Japan. >W-w-well some of those are f-f-fifty years old!So fucking what. That just proves they have done sequels since modern mass media became widespread.>But franchises don’t count!Yes they do, you stupid cunt. That’s like insisting James Bond doesn’t count.
>>153411922he's right about mangafags being autistic like that
>>153417689Most mangafags literally do not care about western comics though
Did Batman give way more confidence to the criminals that don't run into him? Because if you're committing crimes and Batman doesn't turn up, in fact if anyone BUT Batman is trying to stop you there's just no way you are stopping for that dude right?
>>153417530Fuckface, I didn't say they don't do it at all. Literally I said>they don't make sequels MUCH in generalDidn't say at all. retard. Faggot. Moron.
>>153413856Curious that you would attach a watchman image when it basically proves how vastly superior author-controlled comics are compared to legacy IPs. The reason why serialized "serious" comics suck is because fundamentally they're all subservient to the status quo. How can you get invested in a spiderman comic or whatever when the character is treated like it's in I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, being kept hooked up to ventilators and robbed of any endings? It's the current state of hollywood decades before hollywood went to shit. Like with our lives, the normal character is inextricably tied to the events he experienced, if you put the same character through an thousand different reboots it becomes artificial and weird. With unserious comics like asterix or donald duck it's not as pronounced because it's inherently comedic.
At this point, most pre-crisis comics are completely irrelevant to modern DC Comics. Most of the editors and writers there haven't even read them, it's all post-crisis fans now which is why they brought a lot of that continuity back after they threw out everything (except Batman and Green Lantern because Morrison and Johns still needed that to finish their runs) back in 2011.Marvel's never done a reboot but at this point there have been so many retcons that it makes more sense to start reading at the beginning of a particular writer's recent run than confuse yourself going through back issues. Marvel lives in the eternal now.
>>153418006They absolutely do. You couldn’t be more wrong.
>>153418035Why should comics that are already over 40 years old be relevant to modern writers?
>>153418094Sometimes, but not often. You've already proven yourself to be illiterate though.
>>153412176The word is glean, not gleam.
>>153417689
>Corporations placing lots of emphasis on canon in the modern age, such as Star Wars decanonizing the whole old EU and saying it does't count, saying everything new would be canon including the theme park and hotel which does count, and how everything was building towards Rise of Skywalker>new fan consumed a movie/tv show/game and wants to check out the X-Men comics, wonders why they all are split up and hate each other and keep whining about something called Krakoa>to a much lesser note, a playful jab in an editors note like "This happened back in #332 (1985), but you knew that already because you're a REAL FAN that reads the comics!" that's designed to get you to want to read that comic too so they get more money>used to getting the full story for everything nowadays>FOMOThese are the some of things that are tripping up new readers. Whether they're understandable or not doesn't matter, this is some of what's tripping them up. Manga also has a clear beginning and an end. The end may take 30 years to get there, but it's one author and one end start to finish, though they do have cash-in sequels too or side stories but nothing on the level of the X-Men line
>>153411922Not really. It is mostly important that you pick it ip at the start of a new story arc.Besides you can buy good storylines, while you have to read through Naruto filler story arcs.But what they mean is that it is easier to start with #1, since humans are completists or convinience droven readers like to start at a #1 and read it through to the end.
>>153418701Isn't that for the Naruto animu? What does that have to do with the mango?
>>153419060Getcomics
>>153411922 (OP)>new reader picks up the new Batman #1 he has to read the 80 year history of the characterI actually am doing that, so I've been meaning to ask: Where can I find late-'44 and '45 issues of D.C. and Batman online?
>>153415834>Anime>This sequence was animated in Adobe FlashDamn PPtA was great
>>153419116It truly was. Ryuuichi's match with Peco was fantastic.
>>153419095I didn't know about that site, but it seems like they too only have up until october 1944, like the source I've been using.
>>153416468>evetalkLOL. Putting that aside, do you even talk to people who haven't had their brains rotted by the internet?
>>153419154https://getcomics.org/dc/detective-comics-1-881/https://getcomics.org/dc/batman-vol-1-0-713-annuals-extras-1940-2011/You can try to search for the remaining issues too
>>153419116What sequence?
>>153419171Keep being in denial
>>153419213Oh that's wonderful! Thank you, I didn't think to check for that.
>>153419171That’s a no then. Sad
>>153419262When searching for the next volume, you can look it up on the DC wiki:https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Detective_Comics_Vol_2Look at the date and volume number, then search on getcomics here:https://getcomics.org/?s=Copy and paste the titule and date of the comic you want, you'll find the individual issues or the TPB volumes
>>153416166Got it wrong, the video is The Format Problem Killing Western Comics
>>153415526I don't agree with it either, but some at least start at Golden Arc THEN go to the Dark Swordsman arc to read it cronologically.Personally I think it doesn't go over too well since it couldn't be any more clear Miura was still struggling with who Guts is as a character, and the post-Golden Age arcs all feature a more mellowed out Guts in line with GA.
>>153419885>I don't agree with it either, but some at least start at Golden Arc THEN go to the Dark Swordsman arc to read it cronologically.Idk, I've rarely seen that as well. I guess it might happen.
>>153412176Just start Spiderman with Dikto.Fantastic Four and Thor with KirbyXmen with ClaremontFlash with the Death of iris West and Aquaman with Death of the PrinceSuperman with the Brainiac introductionBatman with the russian roulette issue.Ironman with GoodwinHulk with MantloDoom Patrol with the first issueIs not that hard with many heroes, the problem is with things like Daredevil that people yell that Miller or Bendis are the goat.
>>153411922Nah it's wrong.It's like if you buy a story made about Sherlock Holmes today, (since he's public domain there's a bunch of them) you don't need to have read every prior Sherlock Holmes story.It's a serialized character, there are new arcs and new plots and it doesn't matter if you miss a few background details.It is mostly just a paranoia, a reader doesn't get a lesser experience reading the new Aquaman run blind as opposed to him having read every Aquaman story ever.The only issue really is that instead of having the clear starting point of issue 1, you may need to ask which run you should get specifically. Which is slightly more effort
>>153411922Link the video.
>>153416231Yeah.I'm new to comics, and I wanted to get into Moon Knight. His series was on number 9 or 10 at the time (a high numbering by modern Marvel standpoints) and then I just started reading it. Didn't have any trouble understanding or enjoying it.I also only got on to Absolute Superman at issue 16 or so.I also started following Teen Titans at issue 26 or something, unfortunately I'm off that book because they switched to a different team, and I just don't care for the new cast.
>>153420765>His series was on number 9 or 10 at the time (a high numbering by modern Marvel standpoints) and then I just started reading itDid you buy the issue from a comicshop or did you read it online? I guess it's not something that normal for manga fans since 99% of them start from the beginning, even on episodic comedy manga like Yotsuba.
>>153411922It's really not one thing. Comics have been dead to the majority of Americans for decades now. It's an industry where multiple bad decisions have compounded on each other to render it what it is today. You cant walk all that back easily.
>>153420765Your post is as fake and gay as you are, shill.
>>153412252It's like a miniseries vis a vis a sitcom.You don't need to have seen every prior Seinfeld to laugh at the soup nazi bit. You don't need to have seen every prior Big Bang Theory episode to giggle and then get annoyed by the laugh track.The whole complaint about there being too much continuity is usually just a cope so people who just don't want put in the effort to get into something they may like can justify not doing so.
>>153413300Oh no not references! How will I ever enjoy the mysteries Batman solves when he mentioned how he dated a woman named Vicky Vale and I don't know who that is. My immersion has been ruined!
>>153416582t. only reads mainstream battle shounen
>>153420631https://youtu.be/lLQhJL5nshg?si=KonXNjb5R706_SRI
>>153420928So your average manga reader
>>153420919At this point, why read them at all?
>>153411922
>>153420976IS the average western comic reader a capeshitter or a webcomic reader?
>>153411922For me it was the price of floppies going up. Couldn't justify spending as much money on a bunch of mediocre products.
>>153413223>There's definitely a reason for thatThere's well more than just one.You have the internationality of Japanese comics vs American comics. They are more accessible and popular across all of Asia as opposed to American comics which are a nice slice of the western world.Then in Asia there isn't a cultural stigma that comics are just for kids.That definitely harms the popularity of the medium in the English speaking world.While were at that, there's also the issue of America being a pretty illiterate society where most people don't like to read. Not the case in much of Asia.You also have the anime industry doing a terrific job at bolstering manga sales.Animation is less niche than reading, and with these mostly direct 1-1 adaptations, manga is given a massive boost. That is only barely emerging for American comics, with shows like Invincible. Usually adaptations of American comics are very loose and so don't benefit the source material much.
>>153420899Nah If I ever were to get into big 2 capeshit I would follow >>153420240
>>153421058THIS. This is the biggest problem. Instead of buying 30 pages I could buy a manga with 180 pages for the same price and it's weird since collected series of american comics have way better prices than their floppies
>>153420985Because, if the comic is good, you will still enjoy the story and the art and the action and character development even if the bigger picture is lost on you.I read Moon Knight, got into it in the middle of the last run, and in the newest issue he fights a character called "The Bushman" who it's mentioned he used to work for. I've never heard of The Bushman. So almost certainly the narrative weight of that fight is lesser for me.But it was still a great action scene that was narratively compelling that I am glad I read.
>>153420810I bought Moon Knight and Abs Superman at a comic book shop.Teen Titans I was just following on 4chan. Though I did go out and by the issue I liked the most. The one right prior to the new team being established. The meta Twilight-Zone-esque one>>153420886Nigga Marvel doesn't even pay for ads on social media. You think they're paying random anons to talk about comic books?As if you needed to give people money to talk about comics online.
>>153421015Probably webcomic. No money barrier entry like current cape monthlies.
>>153421061I wouldn't if I were you.I mean starting Aquaman with Death of a Prince is retarded. That's so far back, why wouldn't you just read a few dozen more and start with Aquaman vol 2 number 1?
>>153421159>I bought Moon Knight and Abs Superman at a comic book shop.And they didn't have the 1st issue for either of them or did you not bother asking?
>>153421188Maybe not all of them but I will start with claremont since capeshitters seem to respect him.
>>153413445You're being narrow-minded. American graphic novels are a huge deal and often sell much better than Manga in the US.America has a tradition of either doing serialized comic magazines (mostly licensed fair or superhero stories) or graphic novels.The diversity in American comics is in graphic novels rather than monthly comics.
>>153421128Sounds like you don't care about quality at all.
>>153421159You'll be happy with 10 cents a post just like Marvel writers settle for a small page rate just to get the honor of writing those characters. Your Moon Knight shilling isn't working because even if you do trick someone into sampling that shit it immediately becomes obvious it's a below mediocre comic.
Nobody that buys manga actually reads it, it goes on the shelf next to slop merchandise. Ask anyone at a convention, speed watching anime is is a hobby for normies to talk about something until they're bored. They all hate every series halfway through and bitch about every ending because they don't actually care, they want hype moments and tiktok edits
>>153413906You don't need to.If a book is so complicated that you don't understand it, if the existing continuity is so important that you can't enjoy the book — read a different comic.
>>153421561Actual proof rather than anecdotes? Even if you are talking about young zoomers manga and anime still have a strong millennial fanbase that HAS MONEY. I can sue a personal anecdotes as well, at my local library I saw 2 girls buying Vagabond, which has no anime adaptation.
>>153412176Blessed post.Truth was spoken.
>>153415593It's a different style of story telling.If you want a specific story, you can go and read finite, serialized comics.But if you like a character or setting, and you want episodic storytelling, that's what many American comic books offer.
>>153421406>American graphic novels are a huge deal and often sell much better than Manga in the US.What are the best selling graphic novels from 2025? Are they good?
>>153421561We're reaching cope levels never before seen
>>153421864It's par the course for /co/, honestly.
>>153416089It's over 10 years old now.I don't think that artist works in the comics industry anymore. Must have fired her.It's a shame because outside of the God awful art, Squirrel Girl wasn't that bad.
>>153416832This is a good point, comics have refused to evolve and the small fanbase are somehow proud of it.
>>153421840>But if you like a characterI don't like characters just because of their designs and backstory, that's an extremely shallow way to look at them. They shouldn't be just props. >settingI can understand that even though I would call it genre(sci-fi, fantasy, western) rather than comic. Usually I only read capeshit if I really liked a writer from a normal serialized comic and I find out that the author he has worked on some capeshit stories in the past.
>>153411922Kind of but I've realized that you need a certain amount of stockholm syndrome and sunk cost fallacy to enjoy capeshit.
>>153417048The Japanese comic industry is larger and healthier, so there is more manga that's centered on realistic drama, romance, comedy, horror, whatnot than there is for American comics.American comics are really hurt by the still prominent perception of comics as being for kids.So most Americans don't read, and those that do will prefer to read actual books.This makes less popular genres commercially unviable. Manga doesn't have those issues so it has more genre diversity.
>>153420968>Only 900 views>Some old guy with an AI avatar and artEw, another some out of touch Wednesday warrior who doesn't actually care about medium and just wants more stories from his childhood so he ranting on YouTube instead of moving on.
>>153421197They were sold out of the first issue of Moon Knight, and moreover I just didn't want to spend like 30$ to read the past 9 or so comics when I knew I could just start with that number.With Absolute Superman, I could read the back issues, but I only started liking it conceptually with the new arc, so I jumped on there.I have bought previous issues to start at number 1 before. I did that with All-In Aquaman and Absolute Wonder Woman. But there it was only like three-ish comics.
>>153421915You're being really fucking autistic, anon.Yeah I get you don't care to follow characters, others do. Many people will go and read a mystery novel about Sherlock Holmes over one about any other detective, because they like Sherlock Holmes.You don't need to be into it, but it is a motivating factor for enjoying that other people have.
>>153416090It's funny that even with the very few exceptions in the manga industry you don't get the term "runs". How would it even work for Mazinger?>this run from chapter x to y by Nagai>this run from chapter x to y by Nagai again>this run from chapter x to y by Nagai again againuntil you eventually get to the modern times.
>>153420976I remember in the 2000's who was the top in the west because girls were an abandoned market to most comic publishers but with the rise of anime the manga that got printed reflected those threads when originally they were pretty different beasts in the west and shojo got pushed to the wayside for more male series since that's what was popular in anime while abandoning their audience while girls read non-shojo, they sorta lost comics that were made directly for them which is kinda of a shame.
>>153411922People love their copium and to pretend their hobbies are high-brow. It can be confusing, but it's never hard to understand what's going on in these comics, no matter where you pick them up. It's just a special brand of retardation most people won't care for. Naruto is the work of one man/creative team; Batman isn't. That's the elephant in the room. Batman has no many iterations and shit comics that it degraded his value.
>>153422017Shojo was on top*
>>153422017>for more male series since that's what was popular in anime while abandoning their audience while girls read non-shojo, they sorta lost comics that were made directly for them which is kinda of a shame.Idk man, my local comic shop still has all those shoujo classics + a lot of fucking bl.
>>153422029Naruto sucks.
>>153422009Well manga uses 'arcs' so often that it really supplants the need to talk about 'runs.'Many comics, especially in the past, wouldn't have named arcs. And writers would go through many arcs during their tenure on a book.So it's often easier to talk about comics by writing/art team, and manga by story arcs.
>>153422048It's not as popular as it was in the heights of Tokyopop range on the US market, manga in the west in the 00's was very different from manga in the west now in terms of what titles get selected, something like Fruit Basket won't be a crazy seller like it was back then.
>>153422060>Well manga uses 'arcs'Isn't that used a lot by the fans? Meaning less popular manga don't really have arcs. For example what are hinamatsuri and shigurui arcs?
>>153422080I unironically still see Fruit Basket and Sailor moon in bookstores. I haven't seen Ouran club, I remember that one being popular.
>>153422080I mean when DC had a short lived manga imprint in the 2000's, CMX almost all the titles they tried to get where shojo.
>>153422110They're still around but they're not at the heights they once where and newer series in the same genre never get to that level anymore.
>>153421998Why is treating art as art seen as autistic? >Sherlock Holmes over one about any other detectiveAgatha Christie sold pretty well and I doubt many people read non-Conan Doyle SH books.
>>153422132I see a lot of the reverse nowadays, girls reading shonen because they like boys and a lot of magical girl series having male fans. Weird.
>>153411922>if a new reader picks up the new Batman #1 he has to read the 80 year history of the character to understand what's going onThe person who said that is a retard. Anyone who says that is a retard. You are a retard. Comics go out of their way to make jumping on points and will explain everything to you if they need to. Not to mention that most of those 80 years aren't even canon or relevant anymore.
>>153422178A lot of magical girl stuff leans into more of an otaku or general audience because cute girls sell to grown ass men but they lost lot of their core audience I mean the writing different now it's more about fights and being cute than romance,relationships and emotions.
>>153422224I am talking about older magical girl series, the discussions are mostly held by guys.
>>153422262Well also men don't let things go like women do, most women are the classic I'm too old for comics, cartoons, video games and move on watching immature TV dramas and reading those books.
>>153422051the new batfag comics aren't any better, the discussion was not about quality
>>153422315Batman is cooler.
>>153422341new comics? not so much.
>>153411922It's kind of true, but a much bigger problem is the insane inconsistency caused by the fact that writers and artists change all the damn time. This personally drives me insane. If I see an artist change I lose all interest in any story. Manag never changes artists or writers and that makes it a safe investment of time.
>>153418895It was just for illustration purposes.
>>153422536Illustrating what? You mentioned Naruto filler story arcs. but those are in the anime not the manga so it makes no sense.
>>153418104>>153418104They shouldnt and the writers should come up with some new ideas instead of having batman fight da jokah baby again
>>153416913
>>153411922At first, yes because that's what I did when getting into comics by downloading all of Iron Man and starting from issue 1. But then I learn to read "runs" of specific authors and it all became more clear on how to read comics. Then I started X-Men by reading Claremont's run. Also trades make this easier as well which is how I read storylines like Batman No Man's Land.
>>153415999Asterix Comics are still popular in Europe. At least until the Zoomer generations and even the Gen Alphas will have grown up with the movies, whether it is the old 2D movies or the 3d animated ones.
I would recommend treating every run as a separate thing. Look, if you're on this board, you know the cyclical nature of comics. It's perfectly fine to just read the good runs and skip the bad ones. Preferably, stick to collected editions, because they usually include any tie-ins from worse books.Now, if you want to apply this to DC or Marvel as a whole, there are starting points. The Marvel starting point is more obvious - Stan Lee's Fantastic Four. DC is a bit more complicated, but I would recommend Marv Wolfman's New Teen Titans, personally. It's arguably the first "Marvel-like" DC comic, half the main cast is OCs, you get to see Robin becoming Nightwing, and it's one of those comics that starts before Crisis on Infinite Earths and ends after it - it gives you enough of the Pre-Crisis world for you to care about it without it feeling overwhelming, but it still has that Post-Crisis world that more readers are familiar with. Continuing into the New Titans relaunch is optional.
>>153415945the watchmen brand was not destroyedsome people liked those stories, some didn'tyour choice how you feel, and you can also choose not to read themthe original watchmen story is still there, same as it ever waslike it, hate it, or ignore it, your call
>>153423547>the watchmen brand was not destroyedThen, using that logic, no brand has ever been destroyed . Did Moore want more watchmen comics?
>>153411922It's not a matter of how the comics are numbered, plenty of manga and anime are just as chaotic as western Comics, yet still maintain a large popularity (by no means shonen success, but competetive with the smaller Western comic IP's) like Girls und Panzer which has at least 4 different continuities (the pre das Finale Manga, the canon anime, the MLLSD Manga and anime which are fanon and the additional canon manga to the movie), Madoka Magica with 2, the clusterfuck that is post EOE Evangelion and many more. Heck, even Dragonball has the normal canon, the diverging path with GT, whereever Daima falls and the movies which are all independent. People are willing to invest time and resources if they think they are appealed to and fact is, comics don't have as much of appeal to normies as their Eastern Counterparts.
>>153423761It's weird to see someone on /co/ that knows about GuP
>>153423785Well, I once was kind of a big weeb until a year ago where I decided that I want to return to western-made stuff.But is it really that weird. Maybe my algorithm deceived me, but GuP as a brand seems fairly popular, even amongst people who never actually watched or read anything from that IP.
>>153423855I don't see anyone outside of /a/ talking about it.>I want to return to western-made stuff.Cartoons are in a BIG slump nowadays unfortunately. Comics are ok on the indie side.
>>153423974>>153423855If you are talking about youtube videos then maybe those are popular in japan or something.
>>153411922>WEST VS. EAST>WEST VS. EAST>WEST VS. EAST>WEST VS. EAST>WEST VS. EASTDon't you people ever get tired of this??????
>>153424156>bumping itDigital circus zoomers are not the smartest
>>153411922I just want western comics to have the drive and passion that manga tends to have.
It's not JUST "oh it's a just a format issue. "oh it's a publishing issue". "oh it's the same capeshit for decades it's getting old". Or whatever. Most American audiences just used to only have only access to American comics back in the day and really only had access to what was on shelves locally, so they took what they could get. Opening markets to the world meant people had actual competition to compare to. And the internet changed how people consumed stories as they could now easily go from beginning to end for any story.
>>153424429>Opening markets to the world meant people had actual competition to compare to.This, most people so much more choice nowadays.
>>153423855>I want to return to western-made stuff.haha you didn't choose the best time to do so, especially on /co/(both /co/ and /a/ are garbafe but at least I can sometimes get a Mushishi thread on /a/)
>>153411922No, it's worse: there's no real clear point where you *should* start, with any character from either DC or Marvel. Obviously not the very start, and obviously not issue 1 of the current book, relaunched for the 32rd time.Sure, they make some efforts to make it a jump-in point, but there's a nebulous amount of stuff you are expected to know, so when things come up you'll be confused no matter what you do.
The thing weebs don't want to acknowledge is modern manga sucks ass, last thing I read was Drama Queen it was dogshit after awhile.
>>153413020because One Piece hasn't been rebooted several times, and there hasn't been 50 different and terribly inconsistent writers doing and undoing things for reasons ranging from "petty ego" to "ensure income from OC adaptation rights" to "literally none at all", as well as 500 equally inconsistent artists; stories derailed by crossovers with Bleach or MHA, and by line-wide Crisis in Infinity JUMP events. And a bunch of other problems.
>>153424745I think the problem is people need to know everything instead of jumping in an enjoying the ride maybe learn as you go or not like I read Batman Hush my first comic as a kid not knowing shit like I didn't know Jason and Huntress and all that but didn't matter, I had fun. People forget to have funz it's superheroes not history and even irl history you don't need to know everything.
>>153424794One Piece is too fucking long and poorly written/drawn and will likely go on forever after Oda dies, at least big two capeshit you pick end points.
>>153424781Last manga I’ve read was Veil and it was good. Maybe you just have garbage taste.
>>153424851You could choose an end point for one piece as well thoughever.> poorly written/drawnnot any worse than modern capeslop
>>153411922>while if a new reader picks up the new Batman #1 he has to read the 80 year history of the character to understand what's going on"Do you agree with that /co/?No? You can jump on to any issue or the numerous #1 over the decades. Batman is a poor example because several Batman incarnations weren’t even canon to each other for decades. Example, any Batman issue you pick up during the 80s has no bearing on the first Batman issue in 1940.
>>153422218It's a great jumping on point when the new reader who may vaguely know Batman, Robin, and The Joker exist, in a matter of a few issues is shown a Robin, then another Robin who is Batman's son, then the earlier Robin quits, and Alfred is imaginary, and the Joker is in a tube, and so on. It's not to say they can't do stories that innovate, but they're not good jumping on points, and effectively there's no good jumping on points to offer. Anything suitable goes too far back and is outdated and put out of continuity by now.
>>153424992>Example, any Batman issue you pick up during the 80s has no bearing on the first Batman issue in 1940.elaborate
>>153423974>>153424510I have heard with how hard the Eestern comic (and animation industry for that matter) has been hit by nepotism and mediocrity.But for me it's pretty comfy a sit now stands, currently occupied with pre-2016 works. To be fair, nostalgia from my pre-weeb childhood does some heavy lifting, but I have also discovered some gems that I haven't read until now (Johhny the homicidal maniac and the invader zim comic books, '68 Jungle Jim and Crossed: Wished you were here).
>>153425099>I have heard with how hard the Eestern comic (and animation industry for that matter) has been hit by nepotism and mediocrity.Idk, there is still great stuff being made if you look behind the surface. There is that meme on /a/ but the Harta magazine has so much cool stuff and for anime there are torrents for virgin punks recently which was pretty fun. Forgot to ask but have you watched the 2023 Gup movie? What's you favorite GuP girl? I rarely encounter fans so I am a bit happy. >'68 Jungle Jim Really based. War comics are peak western comics. >Crossed: Wished you were here)Even though it's considered the best crossed comic i still didn't like it that much.
>>153425368>Forgot to ask but have you watched the 2023 Gup movieWatched all the animated works and read a few spin off manga (Sage of Pravda, Phase Erika and Ribbon Warrior.>What's you favorite GuP girlAt the start and for the longest time it were Riko (the Rommel larper from the History club) and Shizuka (the protagonist from the Ribbon warrior mangs), but at the end I gravitated towards Alisa.>i still didn't like it that much.Fair, even besides the gratuitous edge-factor some story aspects were definitely undercooked.
>>153424781It's easier then ever to find good manga
>>153417048Name one Big 2 comic with an ending as definitive as Devilman's.
>>153424851I feel more motivated to read One Piece than something like X-Men (I have read a chunk of both). One Piece had good art at one point, and I know it's an epic storyline heading toward a big finish. X-Men is a bunch of shit I don't care about (because it never made me care) that will amount to nothing.
I don't think it's as simple as comparing comic to manga. It's comic to manga/anime/multimedia project. Manga can expand outwards to getting an anime, game, merch, etc. Some comics do as well but nowhere near the number that manga does. So what I'm saying is comics needs more shitty arena fighters.
>>153424156Why does it offend you so much that American comics should learn from better, more successful Manga? It is not rational to avoid learning from your betters.
>>153422218>>153424992>>153423761People keep insisting that it doesn't matter yet it clearly does. Look at Absolute and Ultimate universes. Can you with a straight face deny that a large part of the reason for their success was specifically the fact that they started a new continuity? The comforting assurance that you don't need to know anything that existed before because nothing did exist before?"People should just do research" is a nonsense position. Doing research is a chore. People don't want to do chores when they seek to entertain themselves.
>>153425773Then why doesn't it apply to Japanese Media? Dragonball, Madoka Magica, Fate, Touhou Project, Girls und Panzer, Evangelion and whatever else exists are just as complex to get into and yet still enjoy mainstream popularity or are outcompeting every comic that doesn't feature A-list characters.We could also make it broader. People won't care as long as they find an appeal to justify enganging with the hobby without a medium high barrier of entry (as in only requires a google search). Granted, these franchises get the vast majority of their money from Asia, but even in the West they have large fandom that dwarf most comic book fandoms to the point where it even has cultural influence on people who have never actually read or watched anything from the respective franchise. > Can you with a straight face deny that a large part of the reason for their success was specifically the fact that they started a new continuity? I haven't followed them on the internet. But from my experience the popularity of present day media is directed by whether it blows on the internet (like how Blood Meridian and No Country for old Man suddenly became popular amongst Zoomies and Alphas because of random memes depicting Judge and Anton as badasses).
>>153425970>Dragonball, Madoka Magica >Evangelion and whatever else exists are just as complex to get intoDude, no.
I want comics to exude the passion of their creators. Action should be action-packed AND balls-to-the-wall. Cute things should be cute. Monsters should be monstrous. Grit should be gritty. Unless it's muted on purpose and the intent is different. The west has had its fair share of terrific artists, but they don't seem to make it work as often as I'd like. They don't stick around long enough, or they get put on shit projects.
>>153425586Watchmen
>>153425546This
>>153425028The 40s Batman was the "Earth-2" Batman, so come the late 50s everything before was retroactively made non canon and didn't matter to the current run.Coming again in the 80s the "Post-Crisis" era rebooted continuity, changing Batman's backstory and making most of what had come before not canon.This would happen again in 2011 and 2016
Spider-Man fag again here.Could another reason be anime as well? Anime usually adapts the full source material and is made to promote the manga as well. While anytime they adapt a comic its not in its full entirety or even an adaptation. So with anime one can jump into the Manga and continue from where they left off or if you want to support it as a while you can. But with comics you can't and have no reason to do that other than "I like this character ". Even that isn't strong enough of a reason tho, since like I said any adaptation is usually its own things anyways. Reading the source material wouldn't really help you much other than see where the idea or elements of the adaptation came from. Plus you have no incentive to go into the comics either because the characters are usually really different from their comic counterpart. Look at The Amazing Spider-Man movies for example. Anyone that went from thise movies to the comics was probably severely dissapointed to see that Gwen had been dead in the comics for years. And instead had to deal with MJ or Femicia or some random. The same with Tom Holland films. They wpuld go from seeing a Peter that had a gf and a best friend and Tony Stark support to a guy in his 20s still struggling to find a job, still has women problems and has no support from Tony. The jump from adaptation to source material isn't really a good one most of the times. In fact it can damage the source material as well. Look at Taimi films and how somehow people to this day think MJ in the comics is like that. Or how people to this day still think Felicia only loves the mask still lol based on her already low number of adaptations
>>153427975ContNow with anime we have whatbi said. And anime does deviate as well. But it can usually enhance the source material. Look at jjk for example. I doubt it would have gotten as big as it has if it didn't get an anime. Look at the s3 3 way domain expansion. The hype behind it being built up due to the Manga. Its like adaptation and source material help each other out in Manga. But with comics you have to wait and see what they adapt and how they do it as well. It can most of the times be underwhelming or non existent (Felicia has yet to appear in a movie for example lol and the symbiote hasn't appeared either since Raimi, Sony Disney stuff tho on that). Look at taskmaster tho from the Black Window movie and how everyone hated that adaptation. Maybe thats a case for jumping into comics and seeing how cool he actually is on that one tho lol. Thats also without saying how an anime will look about 10 times better than a cartoon or show based on comics for some reasonI don't also don't thunk it helps how Marvel wants to chase the MCU synergy as well and they try to make it so people buy comics based on the movies rather than buying comics due to the movies. Very weirdBut yeah any thoughts on this?
>>153411922Yes and no, it only really matters if you feel the need to know every reference made or if the current ongoing plot is being written by someone who is really up their own ass about old stories and is writing something you won't fully appreciate or understand without reading about stuff this writer liked when they were a kid. Most of the time you only need to know the current run for context until an event comic happens and shakes things up for no reason (happens too often at DC imo).
>>153427975Anime helps a lot, but usually the manga are still made with the sequential art medium in mind. They don't just draw storyboards. They make it as exciting and appealing as they can as cheaply as they can.
>>153427975I think anime is the biggest reason. Cartoons are way more accessible and mainstream than comics, so any tv show adaptation (direct adaptation) really boosts the source material.Comics have only very recently started getting that, while Anime has had that for decades.Plus the Japanese just like to read more than Americans do
yes it is true despite how comic fans deny it
No, the true bigger issue with comics is that the best days are behind us. All the best shit was written before you were even born. You COULD start from the current run, but then you'd be missing out on the good shit. And to know what the good shit is, you'd need to do some research, otherwise you might do something stupid like pick up the omnibus for Marvel Civil War 2.
>>153415675You don't read, shut the fuck up
>>153412252>the opinion of people who categorically refuse the engage with media but still feel entitled to give their opinions on itIronic because you don't understand the perspective of the people complaining since you yourself are plenty wrapped up in the comics scene and can't relate to outsiders looking in.
>>153412768>One guy sets something up, the next guy changes it or ignores it, corporate forces a company-wide event that changes everything in the middle of several ongoing plots, a third guy comes in and adds some OCs on top of that, a movie happens and now things change for brand synergy to accommodate people who will never read the comics, one guy sets something up...And so it goes.
>>153413303If you want to read about pirates and OP appeals to you, you should be happy that it's got that many chapters and is still as good as it is (I assume it's decent, people keep reading it after all). The only people who feel the need to complain about too much content are the ones who want to know a series so they can talk about it with others and/or so they can be known as someone who read the comics, not for the love of the stories themselves. I still go back to older and older Flash runs because I enjoy the characters and stories and want more, you should primarily read to enjoy yourself or else you will have a bad time and view comics in a negative light for the wrong reasons.
>>153413153On one hand it's normalfags' fault for not doing the basic amount of research, on the other hand it's the big 2's faults for starting a bunch of #1s all over the place because first issues sell and for doing constant events to ruin every ongoing run, it's shitty practice but it makes quick money so they dug themselves into this hole and deserve a large part of the blame for making their lowest common denominator comics too convoluted for the lowest common denominator to get into.
>>153429424A lot of the best has already happened, yes, but I found Rebirth era Flash starting with the Godspeed arc to be a lot of fun and I was enjoying Wally as the Flash again with his whole family present before I stopped reading for a bit so I'd have more than 1 issue to read later. If I took the doomer pill I'd have missed out on a lot of my current favorites.
>>153413223Part of it is the usual points, another part is that a volume of manga costs less than that many chapters of a comic and has more engaging content to boot. America fell into the more color=more quality meme and never recovered.
>>153413280I like status quo, the problem is that editors and other higher ups usually tell writers to change it for the worse or to change it regardless of whether it makes sense to the current story.
>>153413550Back then you didn't really have a choice since shops only had what they had, nowadays you can look online and realize what you're missing.
>>153414241>b-but reasonable take and well-thought out points!FUCK OFFMake it about food or don't open your mouth again in my unholy domain
>>153415845>The bigger question is, why is it that the average person refuses to consider Comics as existing beyond Big Two Capeshit?Big 2 is pretty much all that the country itself promotes, anything else is only known by its adaptations. You have to actually look to find other stuff and normoids don't have time for that.
>>153420765>I also started following Teen Titans at issue 26 or something, unfortunately I'm off that book because they switched to a different team, and I just don't care for the new cast.I was reading TT for a while until they randomly did an event across the company and the new team was completely different with a new dynamic, hate when that happens. Packed up and moved on.
>>153425773And you know what’s going to happen with that? In couple of years it’s going to go the way of the Ultimate line because waaaaahhhhh too much backstory and it’s not “accessible” anymore because it existed more than couple of years. People are fucking dumb and start whining about stupid shit the second there’s slightly more than handful of story arcs.Remember Earth One line? Same deal. OMG HYPE HYPE SO ACCESSIBLE and then couple of years later nobody cares anymore.
>>153418025> a watchman image when it basically proves how vastly superior author-controlled comics are compared to legacy IPsDo you Rick Veitch or Morrison/Millar or Snyder Swamp Thing make Alan Moore’s run any worse?
Aside from the obvious (that manga stories are just simply more entertaining than comics)It's anime. You can't judge the success of manga on its own because anime is integral to its success. And this isn't some cheat they're using, it's just good marketing.You will not be able to find a single person on this earth, neither in the west or Japan, who got into manga without first having watched anime.Animated media is just simply far more digestable than read media. You can put a 2 year old infront of a TV and they'll watch it. You can't put a comic book infront of a 2 year old.They watch anime, and then when they want more, they go to manga. Anime is the pipeline to manga. And at the highest level of this, fans start reading manga that don't even have anime adapations.Stop looking at this as some kind of foul play on manga's part, some unfair advantage.Comics should be adapting into animation the comics they produce, and they should be writing comics with the intention of adaptation. They should stop wasting their money on blind bags and holo cards, and start making comic-accurate cartoons.Demon Slayer was the biggest manga BECAUSE of the anime.
>>153430793To expand on this a bit furtherDo you know how many people knew of Ironman, the Avengers, Thanos, etc before the MCU?Basically no-one.Comics were non-existent in the zeitgeist.People had heard of Superman and Batman, and most people had heard of the various villains like Joker and Green Goblin. But beyond that, absolutely nobody knew what a Galactus wasWhen these characters and stories appeared in the movies, they were fresh and new to pretty much everyone.Even though all these stories had been told decades before, it was a big surprise to everyone, because nobody had read those stories from decades ago. They were so underground that they failed to function even as spoilers for the movies (let alone marketing).Today you have a HUGE pool of potential comic fans just waiting to read the comics (even in their current state)Literally tens of millions of fans who watched the MCU and who play Marvel Rivals and who play the Batman Arkham series, etc.But basically 99% of the people who engage with those things aren't even aware that comics still exist.To them, they think comics still look like pic related, something you can only find in antique stores.
>>153430793MCU was some of the biggest cultural zeitgeist shit imaginable yet it didn’t make comics sell better.>NOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO MAKE 1:1 ADAPTATIONS!!!You do realise that is literally impossible, right?
>>153425970>>153423761I don't think your examples re that good since they mix anime and manga instead of focusing on just manga. For example for DB if someone was interested in the manga he would probably just read the original and then super if he wants more. For madoka they would just watch the original anime and the movie. Like the other anon has said there girls und panzer is pretty niche. If you look at actual endless /a/ franchises like lupin you would notice the same problems. Who is watching the new Lupin movies? Old Lupin fans at best, they are really not that popular. When manga and anime go in the same direction of a 1000 continuities they lose a lot of their original fanbases
If you pause the story to tell me to read a whole different comic I will drop your comicI am reading Supergirl because I like blonde girls. Don't kill the bad guy off screen and tell me to read the crossover Superman comic.
>>153430864>Who is watching the new Lupin movies? Old Lupin fans at best, they are really not that popular. How is Lupin getting new movies and manga all the time then if it’s not popular?
>>153430881Maybe I should have clarified, I am talking about the western audience . In Japan I guess it's still doing some numbers.
>>153430859That's what I'm saying in in >>153430852Thy have this huge pool of advertising potential, but they don't use it.There's no cross-over between the movies/games and the comics.Even if they just put a poster up of a recent comic in the background of the games, they'd sell a million copies overnight. But they don't, they completely neglect this entirely.My personal theory is that the people running the movies/games have such contempt for the comics, that they actually believe using their platforms to advertise the comics would only serve as a liability for their movies/games. That is, being associated with comics would harm their sales.>YOU HAVE TO MAKE 1:1 ADAPTATIONS!!!No I'm serious, yes, you have to make 1:1 adaptations. This is core to the anime to manga pipeline.In Weekly Shonen Jump, the most popular manga magazine by far, anime adaptations come quickly, within 1-2 years of the start of the manga. This is deliberate. The anime is made and airs on TV while the manga is still ongoing. Many many people will watch the first few episodes, like it, and then read the manga to find out what happens next before the anime catches up. And it is well established that the anime is 1:1 accurate to the manga, so they know this is how it works. They know that what they read in the manga, is exactly what is going to happen in the anime. They are the same series.The whole thing is a big advertisement for the manga
I've been taking a pause from western comics(still reading 1 here and there) and mostly engaging with anime and manga these past 5 years. Have I missed anything interesting /co/ related?
>>153430891>The whole thing is a big advertisement for the mangaAnd the manga is a perfect ad for the anime, considering how much money the DS movie made even if it launched long after people had time to read the mango. It's like they are in a perfect dance, each supporting the other one.
>>153430881> mangaDidn't the last lupin manga end in 2016?
>>153430893No, not really. What brings you here now?
>>153430891furthermore,anime is a very meme-exploitable formatPeople will see a 20 second out of context clip on twitter, or an AMV on youtube, or just some guy with a profile picture of an anime on discord. They're exposed to the anime long before they've even heard its name. This is how basically 99% of western anime fans get into anime.I'm pretty sure that basically everyone who's watched Outlaw Star has watched it because of Aisha, pic related.This is advertising. Comics/manga can utilise this too... but it's not the same. It doesn't have the same oomph that something animated does. Even when looking at pic related, you know that this is from something animated, something you can watch. It doesn't require an effort on your part to digest. It's very good at getting people into something.
>>153430921I sometimes just open 4stats, click a random popular thread on a board and then browse the rest of it.
>>153430922Comparing it directly with comics,pic related is a pretty exciting moment... but it's a comic moment. It just doesn't really excite the senses. You KNOW it's not animated, and that if you want to read it, it's just this one page, and you'll have to go dig it up somewhere. It's soo much effort.It's very difficult to go from meme > comic/manga. It's too much of a gap.But imagine instead if pic related were adapted into a faithful cartoon, same art style, but animated, and had that characteristic look that, just by looking at a still frame, you know it's a frame from a full animation. This would excite people, and get them into it
>>153430793See? This guy worded it better than I did earlier cool
>most mangas: read volume 1>the mangas memed as being complex and impenetrable: read (the first one and any direct sequels/prequels) and then just pick up what seems cool>comics: ...
>>153430949This will have been the 6 billionth time we have had this thread and these arguments, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it
>>153430922>This is advertising.Bro I think you are starting to make less sense. That's not intentional advertising and it happens with video games/manga/cartoons as well. Starfire from cartoons, any ecchi/doujinshi girl from manga usually has people asking for sauce etc. Do you propose people changing their profile pictures to busty comic girl characters to promote them?
>>153430945I have an actual example to use here.You've almost certainly seen the Owlman clip on youtube. It has millions of views.That clip alone likely got many many people into the animated Batman series.
>>153430963But what about the EXACT SAME character but in a comic?It's just not as interesting.Now if you're already watched the animated series and you liked Owlman in it, this probably would be enticing.You have to brige the gap with the right kind of media, and animation is just the best way.
>>153430958Its not intentional but its part of it tho. Nta btw
>>153430958Well okay, it's obviously not deliberate advertising, but you can easily view it as exploitable advertising.Viral marketing. That sort of thing. Make your thing meme-able and millions of people will see it.Absolute Batman is likely as popular as it is because it's just soo ridiculous that it became a meme, and through the meme, people read the actual comic.If they have even the slightest amount of sense, they'll make an animated adaptation of Absolute Batman soon before the hype dies out, and then it will almost certainly be the biggest thing since sliced bread
>>153430979Gotta watch out tho. You don't want to make something for the purpose of ot being a meme entirely. Morbin time was a meme that made Sony put morbious in theaters again after all and it flopped anyways. You also can't force a meme either
>>153430891>Even if they just put a poster up of a recent comic in the background of the games, they'd sell a million copies overnight. No they wouldn’t. You have a popular online game right now from Marvel and it isn’t making people read more Marvel comics
>>153430994You can say that about most business matters. It's like a curse, if you try too hard to be viral, you'll never achieve it. It has to be natural, accidental.
>>153430891>And it is well established that the anime is 1:1 accurate to the mangaBut this isn’t true at all. Plenty of anime takes liberties with the source material for various reasons, especially if the manga is still ongoing and they’re running out of material to adapt. That’s how you get tons of filler episodes with entirely OC shit.
>>153430994To expand a little. Anime is mememable due to expressions and reactions that were already in the manga and due to how Japan does things. Which comics do as well but they don't lean into that much in adaptations. They like their realism and all. Except Spider-Man I guess and that ultimate Spider-Man show where the famous pose of him sitting on the chair comes from lol.
>>153416913This. I haven't touched capeshit in more than a decade. Too bad non-capeshit comics have little to 0 advertising.
>>153431006True but that filler can also be enjoyable or expand on the source material. Look at jjks3 and its final episode. They took liberties and it made the entire sequence better and more hyped due to it
>>153430995There are soo many people playing Marvel Rivals, putting a picture in the background is the smallest thing you could do, an actual idea would be to offer custom skins through buying comics. They'd make more money doing that than they ever would selling blind bags
>>153431006And pretty much all examples of this have terrible reputations. Whether it's the anime only ending of Fullmetal Alchemist or the endless anime only filler of Naruto. Nobody likes it. It's soo unpopular that these days anime companies just put the series on hiatus for year at a time until they're able to adapt it faithfully to the manga.
>>153430922I think you should have mentioned >>153430905 as well. The anime needs to be good/high quality so they can promote each other well enough.
>>153431009What comics have you been reading for the last ten years?
>>153431012Thats true but then it comes off as too greedy. Well depends. You mean like "oh you want symbiote Spider-Man? But this comic" or do you mean some neat little skin based on that comic specifically and the character? Like some casual outfit that they have in it or something
>>153431020That's definitely true, I think the season 1 of the One Punch Man anime with its terrific animation did wonders for the manga. It showed people the existence of this very cool thing.But the season 3 of the anime has been lombasted as total shit. Anyone who's exposed to that and not to the season 1 stuff will very likely not bother with the manga.
>>153431027I agree, while it would sell millions of copies, it's a scummy method on par with blind bags.
>>153430999Yep. Can't force it. Then it becomes cringe or its too noticeable what you're doing. Absolute Batman has become a meme due to how ridiculous it is like the other anon mentioned. Seeing Bruce be a 6'8 jacked up batman with an axe for a logo is somehow pretty out there from regular batman. Having his villains be on some major monster redesign also helped. Now you see shorts of people like "darkside truly hates Batman" "wait till he gets the absolute Tibetan monks" which are also affected by already existing meme from how ridiculous Batman plot armor is too
>>153430918There’s literally an ongoing Lupin Isekai series from 2021 that’s got like 19 volumes so far. They keep making new shit all the time, it just never gets translated in English
>>153431031Thats a bad example because the art of the manga is on another level. In fact a lot of the dissapointment from s3 is how lackluster everything is in comparison to the manga. Even the smallest detail. And people are already dissapointed due to going for the web novel instead of the Manga. All of this is thanks to s1 being so peak. So s3 being bad doesn't scare people away from it. It makes them wanna read it and see how good it is in reality and how fumbled it was
>>153431025The main big ones were the fantagraphics duck comics, usagi yojimbo, hellboy, incal and other moebius comics, bone, cerebus, a bit of L&R and a lot of manga as well
>>153411922The core issue is very simple. Manga operates on the same ruleset as literature - both the publisher and the creator own the characters, so the creator can end the story once they think they're done, and so can the publisher. This enforces an endless cycle of stories and talent, no one stays around for too long (unless they're an absolute beast like Itagaki or Araki). The ending can be shit, but there has to be an ending, because something else has to come. There can still be "endless" franchises, like Dragon Ball or Doraemon, but they're more like Sherlock Holmes - new stuff is just adding its own "canon" that doesn't influence the original complete story, which ended at one point, and with the main author's death, can't be "officially" continued.Comics are different. Ever since the Superman creators lost the IP lawsuit, publishers own 100% of the characters created under their umbrella. That means the writers don't own shit and don't influence shit, and shit can never end because ending anything doesn't make business sense to the publisher. Superman will always keep going, same as Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc. They can never die, their stories can never end, the mainline narrative is infinite, while only the spinoffs can have logical conclusions (and are often considered the most worthwhile parts of the larger mythos). It's the inverse situation of what manga has. It also creates another problem - trash manga by trash writers can be ended quickly and replaced, while trash comics by trash writers often end up forever solidified in "the canon" of whatever superhero they were writing.That's why manga feels like art and gets a ton of space in any bookstore, while comic books feel like disposable garbage where nothing matters.
>>153431049Name?
>>153431061>transfer run will be solidified in canonThis is a good point as well imo. Zeb wells runs is forever something that happend and it has done damage to all characters involved forever until a retcon but Marvel doesn't like those. Batman and Catwomans wedding is something that forever happened. And so is Batman going far against his allies but never against his enemies. It makes it a bit of a mess
I'll tell you my experience as a new old fag. >Grow up in the 90s and 00s >Love superhero cartoons, movies, videogames, toys and characters but never got into comics for some reason >Be now >Suddenly want to get into comics at the ripe old age of 35>Nearest local comic book store is 6 hours away >This is pretty huge because I lose out on a massive social and ritual aspect, like how renting movies used to be. And asking people who knew their shit for help and not a bunch of online fags. >I can go online and everything is free and updated but I have no idea what is worth my time. Why? It's not lack of options. It's because modern comics are fucking dog shit mostly. The majority of the time I dont like the art writing and especially the God forsaken politics.>Want to read old comics. Have to either buy phonebook sized omnibussies that can be expensive especially if they're out if print or just browse online>DEAR GOD THERE IS SO MUCH COOL OLD SHIT ONLINE EVERYTHING IS HERE MY GOD ITS FULL OF STARS >Completely removes the act of being able to randomly pick up one issue in the middle in my brain because now I have to choose something out of everything available and I get decision paralysis. >Having to do research on the best runs before reading is just not enjoyable and no one can even decide on shit. I hate having to go between 2 or 3 different books for some of them.>Mostly read one shots at random now or small issue runs or stand alone grand novels and really enjoy a lot of them but it sucks I cant find anywhere to talk about them online. Which is fucking sad because I'm typing this on a comic board. >the sheer size of some of the runs and amount of issues can be daunting but I'd kill to be able to get into the real versions of the stories I saw in all the cartoons as a kid
>>153431080Meant trash not transfer. Stupid typos
>>153431083>Nearest local comic book store is 6 hours awayYou don't have a car?
>>153431061I don't even care about endings anymore I just would kill to be able to see stories be generational. Like Dragonball or Jojo. Instead of in constant temporal purgatory where instead of aging they just get a million legacy versions in increasing levels of diversify.
>>153431061I think you can go even one step higher on this.The creator makes the manga, not the publisher.More precisely, the creator comes to the publisher with the manga already made, atleast in prototype format.The publisher doesn't have any ideas of their own.Editors might have small ideas here and there, but the creative direction basically entirely on the part of the author.It's very much like the regular books industry. Penguin Books Ltd isn't writing these books, they're just publishing them. They may suggest edits to writers to ensure they're staying within regulatory guidelines, but fundamentally it's the writers who write the books. They're the ones with the creative vision, not the publishers.And there's absolutely no difference here with comics....... except that in comics, the publishers are coming up with the ideas, and it's no wonder they haven't had a single good idea since the 80's
>>153431096I'm not driving 6 hours to a local comic shop where I see fucking Miles Morales shoot out an electric sword are you fucking insane? The gas is not worth it.
Idk why people don't mention paneling and artstyle as much, a lot of western comics frame things very different compared to manga and have their paneling focus more on complete scenes rather than dynamism. Also they do both realistic artstyles and stylized artstyles in different ways, just look at the way Mizukami draws faces and does the lineart in Spirit Circle.
>>153431121Oh, I thought you meant 6 hours by foot, if it's 6 hours by car then of course it's not worth it.
>>153431120cont.Publishers just don't have any creativity worth a damn.Imagine the music industry working like this.Rather than aspiring young musicians coming up with their songs, you just have the publisher hire a songer, hire a guitarist, hire a drummer, and feed them songs from an inhouse song writer. It'd probably look the same as comics, after 80 years you'd only have 1 genre and just be re-writing the same songs over and over again with slightly different beats.Marvel and DC needs to totally restructure how they create comics. They need to act as an open door publisher that accepts pilots from anyone and everywhere. Have the people actually making the comics take the reigns of the comics.
>>153411922Manga smell better than comics when you open them up. This is the only argument that matters, ignore everything else.
Comic books don't have nearly as much mecha and manga does so I stick to manga.
>>153431150Could that guy defeat a shark?
>>153430979>MEMES BROHey remember how much this board hates Taylor and bitches about him writing scenes that are intended to go viral on social media?
>>153431123Yeah this a good point as well. The the action is so fluid in Manga and the way they panel things. Plus the art for the widespread pages Is so cool too. I can follow whats happening pretty well (sometimes. I mean have yall seen some of these manga? I sometimes can't tell whats going on lol. But thats not common at least for me so far) in comics you can follow it as well and comics also have great art(sometimes, other times it mid or kinda bad or bland imo) but the paneling is different.
>>153431123>MizukamiNever liked his art. Good thing there are plenty others to choose from.>>153431142>Imagine the music industry working like this.Isn't that what they do with pop music, in a way?
>>153431158I didn't know this as i am new here. Has it worked for Taylor? Thought you meant Taylor swift for a moment but I think you mean Tom Taylor?
>>153431175>Good thing there are plenty others to choose from.I guess this is a plus as well since you have so many mangaka with different styles that you can always choose something that will appeal to you.
>>153431150Kek, that's pretty based.
>>153431142But actually in addition to this, I've got a much better idea for how comics can improveCompetition.Right now, there's no pressure on the people making the comics to actually sell anything. They all get paid the same whether their comic booms or flops, it's too forgiving of an environment.Here's the pitch>16 new titles under the same branding "competitive" or whatever>sold in a specially branded shelf, pic related>how each comic is made is irrelevant, do what you want>sold monthly, all the same price>ranked based on sales figures>bottom ranked 6 comics get cancelled every 6 months and replaced with new titlesArtificially constrict the shelf space. If what you make isn't a top 10 seller, you're out. If what you make gets stale, you're liable to be usurped by something new and exciting (imagine Absolute Batman appearing as a new title in this lineup after the last batch gets canned, it would immediately replace a top 10 title)This is an self-regulating mechanism for success. All creators will be pressured to be constantly one-upping eachother in sales figures, which will directly relate to entertainment value, and anything that doesn't sell well gets cancelled, and cancelled fast.Within a year, every title will be selling a million copies plus
>>153431012>an actual idea would be to offer custom skins through buying comicsBut that doesn’t make people read comics, dumbass. For fucks sake DC and Marvel have done tons of Frontnite collaborations by offering skins and comic themed events in the game. It hasn’t made an impact. If that did dick why would a random cover in a game do better? They have even done a Fortnite crossover comic which iirc offered exclusive codes but what did people do? People just bought it for the code and threw the comic in the trash.You people are delusional and just masturbate to anime/manga without any understanding how the actual market works.
>>153431123There's something to be said about the process. Manga started as black-and-white so it could be printed very cheaply and remain inexpensive enough for post-war Japan. This turned into a blessing - it meant that a single artist could keep making his own manga without too much interference, only relying on a few assistants (who they could train in the meantime). This ensured that a single work could comfortably stay in the hands of a single creator and could even be produced weekly, because the process is simple enough, and the result can always remain cheap. To this day, a single volume of manga in Japan costs about as much as a large bottle of coke.Comic books started in about the same space as manga, but went after spectacle as the medium blew up in popularity. They dropped the pulp paper in favor of fancy glossy paper, and complicated the process in every possible way - more colors, more inking, more complicated artwork. The result was often much more premium-looking, of course, but this required an entire assembly line of artists, which created all kinds of problems, and much less actual content could be produced as a result. A weekly comic book is impossible. A single floppy has about as much content as a single manga chapter, comes out monthly, and costs 6 bucks (more than an entire manga volume in Japan, although tankos are more expensive in the US, mostly because they use thicker paper and a larger A5 format). It's not nearly as fun to collect.
>>153431018>Nobody likes it.You say that but it has never stopped them from being some of the most popular shows while airing.
>>153431080>Zeb wells runs is forever something that happend and it has done damage to all characters involved forever until a retconZeb Wells’ run has not impacted my enjoyment of Spider-man comics one. This is stupid fanboy bubble bullshit where you act hyperbolic like one run you didn’t like is the worst thing ever. It’s ridiculous circle jerk misery porn about boo hoo it’s so hard being a spiderman fan
>>153431212>and costs 6 bucks (more than an entire manga volume in Japan, although tankos are more expensive in the US, mostly because they use thicker paper and a larger A5 format).In european countries a manga volume(translated in the specific language) is usually between 6-8 euros.
>>153431201A creator should want to be on this roster because it pays well. Make this a desired place for creators to be publishing in. Offer incentives for being ranked higher.And make it enticing to readers also. Why should they buy one of these comics instead of something from the usual shelf? Because these are better. Market it that way. Say to the world "these are the BEST comics" This is the big leagues.People want #1 issues to get into comics, but more than that, they want #1 popular comics
>>153431230I was just emphasizing the other anons point about how one bad run will stay forever jeez. My bad gang.You say it doesn't affect your enjoyment. But i wanna ask, did your thoughts on MJ change for the better or worse after that run for example? Did you think worse of Peter after said run? Are you telling me it affected nothing at all?
>>153431180Yeah, Tom Taylor and his comics sell well and are well received but if you ask /co/ it’s the polar opposite because dumbfucks here have been seething about him for years because adult Jon was now bisexual due to his creative decision. Same way they rage about Dick Grayson having a sister now
>>153431250I thought bendis made Jon bi. So bendis just aged him? Honestly a mistake imo. Him and Damien were cool. But people here think he doesn't sell well? And dick has a sister now? Didn't know. But i have heard his run was controversial as well tho
>>153431231In Japan, the average price is about 3 bucks. Again, this is because they're smaller in size and printed on cheaper pulp paper (it's noticeably greyer than the bright white paper of the Western releases). The print quality is usually just as good, though.
>>153431230>This is stupid fanboy bubble bullshit where you act hyperbolic like one run you didn’t like is the worst thing ever. INot that guy but to answer OP most people just do not have a concept of runs period. There is an author or a director in most things. That's it they dont think beyond that. So asking people to understand the comic may turn to shit but stay with it because a new run might be good is a huge fucking herculean ask
>>153431266Is that yours? Or just an internet photo?
>>153431249Why would my thoughts on MJ or Peter change at all? I was not one of those gullible idiots who were obsessed with OMG THEY’RE GOING TO RETCON OMD YES YES YES I AM LITERALLY CUMMING FROM JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS theories during Wells’ run. I similarly never seethe over the fact MJ is dating other people
>>153431267I'm the anon that got insulted. Anyways.>one run might be shit but stay with it in case it gets goodAt that point its a gamble tho. Plus you are left with the source taste of the previous run on your mouth as well while the new run starts out.
>>153431267I swear to God the level of stupidity on this board just keeps increasing each day
>>153431275>I similarly never seethe over the fact MJ is dating other peopleI don't like when heroines have the Sex With Others tag
>>153431285Can you explain why what I said was stupid or do you just want to have a shit slinging nigger contest?
>>153431273Just a pic off the Internet, but I do own quite a few. Shit is often on sale too, because manga stores want to get rid of their old stock, so you can literally buy manga you want in bulk without worry. I once bought five volumes of MahoAko, and it cost me as much as a single McD meal.
>>153431275Why are you talking about the marriage? I asked if your thoughts changed at all due to how these character were portrayed in general in the run. Its not about their romance. Its about how things happened and we're incredibly forced all to break them up. Then to have MJ act in a pretty shitty way to Peter while Peter is over here constantly clamoring and begging for attention or an explanation from MJ just seems like a pretty terrible way to write the characters. There are a million ways to break them up without resorting to this. Also you don't have to be into their marriege to have a problem with the writing as a while either
>>153431266Can you be more specific?As far as I know, the big cheap anthology magazine like WSJ is printed at the same size as a comic floppy with paper like this. While the tankobon volumes are sold at a standard size smaller B5 (7"x10").You posted two examples but I'm not what what sizes they are.I'm actually very curious about this because I read alot of regular literature books, and the sizes vary greatly but my preferred size is the B5 becuase it fits in the hand nicely.There is also the matter of the size of the drawings on the page. Old comics had much bigger drawings, new comics have very small drawings and I find them hard to read comparatively.
This is why manga sells better than comics by the way. No NTR.
>>153431292I was asking because the mat looked pretty cool.>so you can literally buy manga you want in bulk without worry.My sister's school library gave a bunch of manga away from free because they were inappropriate(yuri stuff and the ohgreat bakemonogatari manga)
>>153431305contI only happen to own a western viz published tankobon and would like to know the difference between it and the original Japanese tankobonsAs far as paper quality goes. I think glossy paper is a terrible idea, it's sweaty in the palm, and catches the glare. It's more perspective and yet it feels cheap.Matte paper is much nicer.Here is a comparison of the size of the drawings I was talking about earlier. When viewed from a distance, the legibility issue becomes apparent
>>153431307With the sole exception of "Rent a Girlfriend" of course
>>153431318>With the sole exception of [everyone shits on it]And rightfully so
>>153431315Purple dude looks like some young magneto at least from this Pic and how blurry he looks. Makes me chuckle
>>153431289To say people can’t understand how different runs work anymore is absolutely absurd and if that is really the case then comic reader IQ levels have plummeted to the bottom of the barrel. Same goes for “boo hoo, I didn’t like X so how can you ask me to try a different run? That’s way too much effort, what if I don’t like that one either!”
>>153431305Tankos are Japanese B6, roughly 5 x 7 in.
>>153431322Oh no yeah it is shit and I agree. Complete waste of time lmao
>>153431315>think glossy paper is a terrible idea,THIS!
>>153431301Why would I change my view at all? >But the comic did a stupid thing!Are you nine years old and never read a comic before? This isn’t even the first time they’ve arbitrarily broken up.>You have to hate MJ, she’s a bitch! If this is how you act you’re forming way too strong parasocial relationships with fictional characters.
>>153431344It really is a terrible idea. Not just for comics, but even for regular books. I own thousands of regular books, of all kinds. It's just wholly unpleasant in every way.Paper should look and feel like paper, not plastic.
>>153431348Shit character writing should be criticized though
>>153431348nta but>Are you nine years old and never read a comic before?That's supposed to be your entry level demographic. Whether it's movies, videogames, cartoons, etc. Most entertainment media of this kind begins young. If you're not grabbing your audience at a very young age, you're likely to never get them at all.
>>153431348I never said you had to hate her. And i literally said there are better ways of breaking them up. I also like how you dodged the question too but oh well.Also I think the run is trash yeah but I don't hate MJ. But guess what? Many people do based entirely on that run. The anon mentioned how bad runs are solidified in Canon and I mentioned wells run precisely for that. The reputation that these characters have now has been influenced entirely by this run alone. Maybe some Raimi movies as well. But now people use wells run just to shit on these characters. But nice assumptions about me
>>153431368Don't tell them that. They simply buy it knowing its shit character writing and go "maybe the next one will be better"
>>153431368Why would that equate to now having to hate the character because MUH SHIPPING?
>>153431380>But guess what? Many people do based entirely on that run.And those people are fucking dumb losers who spend too much time being upset about a fictional woman not dating their self-insert character.>Bad runs are canonSo what. You can just ignore them like any bad story you don’t like.>This run SHAT ON CHARACTERSOh no you didn’t like something? How terrible for you. Better rage quit reading Spider-man and still spend years bitching about how upset you are, that is totally how an adult behaves
>>153431387That is how serialised fiction generally works, buddy. You didn’t know that? Talk about embarrassing for you.
>>153431380I grew up with the Raimi movies. I, along with probably everyone else my age and younger, have set firmly in my mind that the relationship between Peter and MJ is a disaster. It is a status quo akin to Plankton forever failing to steal the Krabby Patty recipe.I know that no matter how peachy their relationship may appear at any given point, I know that it is going to fail miserably.And you know?It's just not that interesting.I don't really care to read about a dysfunctional relationship. I don't want to read about people cheating on eachother, or losing passion for eachother, or having their relationship breakup for whatever reason. That's just really miserable. I don't want to read it.There's no future with this entire concept. They shoul drop it entirely and write something else.
>>153431392I asked if your opinion on these characters had changed in general. Not specifically due to the ship but due to how they were written through the run. I mean MS.Marvel, Kampala khan died in from of 7 people and their reactions is not the ones you would expect from seeing someone die. Plus Peter was a little emotional about it and moved on pretty quickly. I bring this up so you can see another problem besides just shipping since you already hate that even if it was never the focus of my reply
>>153431398>peter is now a self-insert characterDisingenuous
>>153431398>these people are dumb fucking loversThose people could be potential customers. So i guess this is also why comics have issues getting new people into them lol. People see toxicity in the writing and they are the losers. This is how you push people away from your books as well cause why would anyone wanna read about a relationship they perceive as shitty and constantly dysfunctional?>ignore tha bad run>current run is entirely dependent on previous runYeah sure okay. I guess I'll ignore a run that set up the next run as well. I didn't want to mention ships but I have to for this point. If someone was reading the previous run and saw Peter and MJ about to marry and ignore the Wells run guess what? Peter and MJ are still not together. Not only that she is now Venom and with the dude from the previous run that started all of this. Runs are not always as clean breaks as you make them out to be.>shat on characters It did. No insults towards me will change that. Also this is the place to talk about comics books. You think I spend all of my time thinking about this? Why do people online always do this thing where if you shit on something then suddenly that must be the only thing you do with your life. Lol. Is that a way of coping?
>>153431404This is a living example>>153431398
>>153431403Thats fine and yeah I do know thats how it works. But deflecting criticism with that doesn't help anyways. But yeah the next run could be better. I would prefer if there were not shit runs tho. Might just be me
>>153411922This will all make no sense once Naruto has reached the 80 years old mark.
>>153429681A bit late but I have read runs for some heroes and for the other I've seen the general opinion. A lot of ruined characters so from what I can tell my statement is correct
>>153431409Again, why would my mind change? For what possible reason?
>>153431446Your “criticism” is just fanboy whining and endless seething because you can’t handle a bad story existing
>>153431430>You have to pander to MEEEEEE>You DESPISE MEEEEEEEE when you write stories I don’t like!!!This is toxic fandom and what actual ruins comics and fandom’s because you make everything about your petty little manchild feelings being hurt and can’t treat disposable serial fiction as just a hobby you can quit if you can’t enjoy it anymore.>If someone was reading the previous run and saw Peter and MJ about to marry and ignore the Wells run guess what? Peter and MJ are still not together.And if that’s an overbearing problem then don’t read Spider-man for the time being. Wow that wasn’t hard.And buddy, if you didn’t Zeb Wells’ run you can feel that way but you should be an adult about it and just say you didn’t enjoy it instead of being so entitled that you are still mad about it years later
>>153431592>You have to pander to MEEEEEEYeah.... I'm the customer
>>153431554>why would my mind change?It doesn't have to. I just asked if it did. But to answer your question let me put it like this. MJ was a beloved character. And now she is hated by general population. Thats a change in opinion. Why? Because people don't like how she was written in wells run. Its that simple and not complicated. You don't have to dislike her now. I don't dislike her either. I guess asking was a huge problem to you tho.>>153431564I'm not seething. I stated my opinion about what another anon had mentioned about bad runs being forever part of the characters history. The only seething one here seems to be you based on my dislike of wells run. So you gotta be getting payed by him or you sacked his dick or something to take it so personal.>>153431592Never did I say they should pander to me you idiot. I like how you dismiss criticism with simply "you're a crybaby" but I'm you're the grown up here. I guess comicfags are perpetual manchildren who can't fathom someone disliking the way their precious "hobby" is handled and instead have to make shit up to make themselves look better. But the toxic one is me for saying "the run was shit lol" while you claim to be better whike being toxic af>don't read Spider-Man for the time beingYep I can see why the medium has its problems. Criticism not welcomed and simply hand waved with "don't read" but then also "why do people nkt read more comics?" Idk maybe because of people like you that make it this sacred thing. And also not mad or seething about it to this day either. I mentioned it as I thought it was appropriate to another anon reply.
Comics need better marketing. Look at this dogshit cover!
>>153431564Character writing being shit isn't fanboy whining. Fanboy whining would be "why are Peter and MJ still not together!?!" But i don't have a problem with the break up. Just how it was handled and the following writing for all characters involved
>>153431696Thats why they have an alternate exclusive of Electra in a bikini (idk if this is true but I know they do these)
>>153431666>And now MJ is hated by general population.Not true. People are desperate to get her and Peter together again because that is the real “problem”. It’s pathetic.
>>153431666Nothing says you’re an adult like complaining this much about MJ and Zeb Wells’ Spider-man in 2026 as if your average comic reader is this invested in the topic
>>153431735I've seen quiet a bit of hate for her ever since wells. It depends on the place.
>>153431746I explained myself because the other anon replied with stupidity. Thats it. Plus I wasn't even complaining myself about wells run. I was explaining how people generally see it and what they don't like about it. I have already mentioned it don't hate her anyways so
>>153431746AlSo other anon does seem Invested as well too lol
>>153431749Pockets of fandom is not the general population, dude
>>153430793>>153430852This but it's not just anime, it's that anime usually tries to be close to the source material so when you go to the manga, there's no whiplash and you don't feel lost. The Marvel and DC movies are so far and away from their source material due to everyone involved from the top down throwing in their own ideas to "improve" the material, putting stuff in they personally want, adhering to current thing, and relying more on actor and writer star power than the stories they were supposed to be drawing from. The DCAU movies do better, as does something like Invincible imo.
>>153431792While true I don't think YouTube videos, posts, tweets, even here a little bit, etc is considered a small pocket
>>153431012Congrats, you poisoned the well. Nobody wants to be forced to engage with a separate media in order to further enjoy the thing they already like, especially if that other media is being used as a middleman gatekeeper between them and more of the thing they're already enjoying (ex: if it's a skin for the game, why do I need a fucking comic for it?). Instead what you've done is breed contempt, you've made people see the forced comic as a problem and thus have made these people dislike comics for intruding on their video game. You'd make a great failed-upwards CEO.
>>153431061>That means the writers don't own shitMostly, but writers will get royalties for usage of characters they created which is why you get runs that focus on some OCs who immediately get trashed when that writer leaves. One of my favorites was the opposite of this where that one Deathstroke run ends with the final villain murdering all the OCs and Slade going back to his status quo so the entire run essentially wrapped itself up in a neat little bow, telling its own story then making sure its events wouldn't get too in the way of the character's future. I don't think that should be the norm or anything, it's just rare and funny to see a writer go that route.
>>153431830Comic fandom in social media isn’t indicative of general population either. Especially in the era of outrage fan culture. Or do you think Bounding Comics etc. is how general population feels about everything?
>>153431123>manga>fight with choreography that builds up to a full page view of characters clashing>big 2 comic>"fight" is characters firing off their powers with zero choreography followed by a large panel of a character punching another while delivering an essay of dialogue
>>153431234>Make this a desired place for creators to be publishing in. Offer incentives for being ranked higher.They can't because comics don't sell because chuds didn't buy enough because woke
