When did you realize that most creators luck into success, and don't really understand why their successful creation is popular?
>>153434577I mean, doesn’t Bruce become colder as time goes on?
when Joker 2 came out
Bruce Timm is the John K. of Batman. He gets way too much credit for his show when in reality a good chunk of what made it good in the first place should be attributed to others.
>>153434605I would say removing Bruce's lightness made the show less interesting, less nuanced, and more cookie cutter.
>>153434577Why did Kevin become a fag? Breaks my damn heart really.
>>153434627I've been recently seeing varitations of>everything good about DCAU = not Bruce Timm>everything bad about DCAU = Bruce Timmwhich is, of course, retarded.
>>153434646Everything about The New Adventures is less interesting than what came before. It feels like a cheap kids cartoon, or like the Adam West show without the funny.
>>153434672The reality is somewhere in the middle. Timm deserves a lot of the credit for what made the original show good. But he gets way too much. I think The New Batman Adventures is an indication of what the original show might have been like if he had more control over it. That is, not very good.
>>153434672NTA, but we have a direct example here of him making a terrible call.
>>153434674>>153434694TNBA had a lot of good eps. Growing Pains, Over the Edge, Never Fear, Mad Love.
>>153434800I wish WB would put money into redoing Mad Love to be closer to the GN.
>>153434627Wasn't he largely responsible for infallible Batgod that cannot be defeated and intimidates all other superhumans?
>>153434646That and distilling every single character down to 3 body types. Man, skinnier man, and woman. Then giving everyone the exact same height.
>>153434878TNBA felt like watching action figures being played with on the screen. Flat looking characters with flat personalities. Just a bunch of stuff that happens with no mood, atmosphere, or humanity.
>>153434878That was made to cut corners
>>153434577Lighter, human Bruce was part of what made the show interesting. As for the designs themselves, it's funny in the incredible Art of BTAS book how they spend 95% of the book showing just how incredible the initial designs where, the care put into the storyboarding, title cards, the inspiration from fine art, just the overall attention to detail and design and how well apointed it all was, and then the final few pages are like, 'Oh and here also are the uh, New Batman Adventures designs, ehh goodnight everyone.'
>>153434627Faggot communists love to say this about anybody since they get an erection from it
>>153435044Kys, fag
>>153434577The early jovial Bruce voice and behavior was kind of silly. It just made other characters think he was acting weird a lot of the time.
>>153435053>instant projectionThanks for confirming
>>153434577Huh? In that one episode of Justice League where he actually appears as Bruce Wayne and dances with Wonder Woman he does use the light voice.
>>153435142No
>>153434912>Just a bunch of stuff that happens with no mood, atmosphere, or humanity.>Growing Pains>no mood, atmosphere, or humanity
>>153435172You liked the creepy little girl episode, huh?
>>153434627Mostly Paul Dini.
>>153435276It's a pretty effective episode, yes. Are we retroactively considering it bad now?
>>153435424ngl, I don't like a single episode from the 1997 run.
>>153434850Arleen is Harley and she's dead, and so is Kevin Conroy. Too late now.
>>153435023Even though Timm and Dini made multiple complaints in past books at how studios would continue to fuck up and draw off-model and spoke highly of the TNBA redesigns for being fast to draw with high accuracy no matter who held the pencil.
faggot is just talking out of his aids ridden ass
This thread fucking sucks.
>>153435458You just make yourself look bad.
>>153436794Be the change you want to see.
>>153434577By the time I grew up and nobody had any idea how they got even a fraction of the success they hadm Logically, it's luck. Always was. They feed you this bullshit about merit and dedication but that's only because they succeesded and can't for the life of them tell you what actually happened
>>153435044It's just basically Midwit's Copium >creator did something bad>therefore creator never did anything good
>>153434577Dammit. This for Kevin with Batman www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4PwNyJOjfU and any scene where Arleen had Harley unravel enough to slip back into Harleen were among my most favorite scenes in Batman media period because it shows the surreal depth of their characters and lives how they at once control their personas to their benefit yet also have moments with it being out of their control to their detriment.They're people with two identities, but not like heroes who simply pretend with one, but damn near multiple personality disorder incidents you have to listen closely and pay attention to notice. Which just enhances the presence of Dent/Two-Face physically representing that Gothamite curse on its citizens, splitting people into two, twisting them into extremes. He along with Ventriloquist are of course another "The Mask Talks??" favorite of mine to watch brought to life, but that's why I didn't mention them compared to more subtle examples.At the very least Andrea Romano is vindicated, I wondered about this weird shallowing out of Bruce against her comments and intentions regarding the richness of each character and their VA in the villain files. Now I know she has never, not once ever missed with her vision and I psychically apologize for ever even subconsciously doubting her.Passing on the buck, Timm, you should be ashamed of yourself meddling where you're unlearned. If that sounds sharp to you, imagine a VA storming in while Timm's overseeing animation and telling him to use less color or something.
>>153435142>i-instantAll you do is project.
>>1534345771999 when The Phantom Menace came outOr 1998 when Final Fantasy 8 came out
>>153435602That’s you
>>153434658>becomeHe was always gay.
>>153434577>>153434605I think it would've worked for JL/JLU and Batman Beyond but we should've had "hopeful" Batman for a bit longer in the core Batman show's.
>>153434577Luck doesn't exist. You know what does? Bullshitting. Bullshitters never know how they got where they are because part of bullshitting is believing what you say while you're saying it. That way there's no tells.
>>153438355Batman Beyond, yes, because Bruce becoming Batman full time is ambiguously portrayed as a sacrifice, that he "lost something important about himself." It is the consequence of his choice in Mask of the Phantasm. JL/JLU I think were both severely hampered by removing the civilian identity stuff and not allowing the characters to have more human struggles.
>>153437175Everyone knows its both but can only offer advice on what they feel you can control
>>153434577In the context of JLU that wasn't a bad decision. Batman was only a small part of that series, his personal life was almost never given screentime. A bigger issue with Batman's character was that the series had to constantly jerk him off in order for him to keep up with the rest of the league and all of the world ending bad guy threats. It's the natural evolution of capeshit adaptations that begin to stick around for a little too long. And there are still scenes where Batman gets to show his original character, like with Ace (although I think that episode was in Beyond but whatever).
You might not like it but Bruce Wayne going from his bronze age personality in TAS to a more Frank Miller personality in TNBA is sensible character growth.
>>153435132Nick Mullen says it best when , between all the budge-sinking about his secret identity to the audience, he just comes off like a closeted gay guy
>>153434605Conway was a good enough actor that he could have dialed it up or down depending on how he thought Bruce would approach any given interaction. Instead, the hack who rode McDuffie's coat-tails told him to drop it entirely.
>>153435132Seems characteristic of a schizoid mind.
>>153439012McDuffie wasn't even involved until Justice League. The idea was that he had been Batman for so long that the Bruce Wayne persona was dead and he was no longer interested in keeping up appearances.
>>153434627>when in reality a good chunk of what made it good in the first place should be attributed to others.
This is basically true of everything, it's a hard lesson to learn. I think I got it around the age of 20. It's very rare for someone with skill+knowledge to make it into a position they are built for because it all comes down to charisma, and people with charisma are usually bad at their jobs. Bruce Timm seemes to have had the skill but not always the knowledge
>>153438181Gay as fuck reply lmaoI know you can’t grasp the significance of this, but you’re supporting my point
>>153434577imagine being so close to death that you felt engaging with cartoon fans online was a substitute for real interaction
>>153439103You sound like a jealous fag.
>>153434627Almost like they need to stop catering to artists' inflating egos when they inevitably fuck up writing decisions.
>>153439463No you're wrong.
>>153439463Timm was the showrunner from day one, him and Eric Radomski, another artist.
>>153434850Harley being quack who slept her way through med school would ruffle a lot of feathers
>>153438355>but we should've had "hopeful" Batman for a bit longer in the core Batman show's.By the time TNBA was out, BTAS was already out for 5 years, with the Sub-Zero movie as the new entry. That's a really long run for an action show. I can see why they wanted to change things up.
>>153438472i think they just had trouble balancing all the characters. does lois even show up all that much in Justice League? I agree with you but once it was a team show, that stuff was always going to fall by the wayside.
>>153434577The lighter voice Bruce was goofy as fuck. Like some schizo.
>>153440874Dana Delaney wasn't part of the main voice cast of Justice League, they couldn't have her appear that often.
>>153440858Fair point, I was seeing it under the lens of the "DCAU" which wasn't something remotely concieved at the time.
>>153434577I did when Skottie Young made I Hate Fairyland because he hated being the Marvel Babies variant cover guy, then getting sick over how it had a fanbase that cared for its characters and story because he only saw it as an IP to vent and subvert expectations.So it was IHF Vol 2 #7 & #11.
>>153438300It's not like he made it his entire personality. If he hadn't said anything, nobody would've known or cared.
>>153441558It was already basically known and talked about before he went public. There used to be discussion about it on Toon Zone, which used to be quickly shut down.
>>153434577Samurai Jack season 5 there were other examples before of realizing the creator lucked their way to success but this was the one that made me realize it was the rule and not the exception.
>>153435172It was a piece of clayface LARPing as a little girl to lure Robin back to his rape cave. Its fucked up. And Im tired of you dopes trying and failing to gaslight everyone into feeling all sad for the 60 year old fags tween girl persona.
>>153438300You're not born gay, anon.
>>153434658He was gay the first time you ever heard him and heard of him
>>153440067You mean the feathers of the "people" who made her the deeply unliked caricature she is now?Fuck em.
>>153443608>Thinks being gay is a choice
>>153443608The queers say you are wrong. Gay genes are apparently real. So you have to be selective about who you have kids with.
>>153443903>he thinks not being born gay means they have a choiceThey have a choice in acting on their mental illness, but they weren't born gay.>>153443941What's the name of the gene, anon?
Good art is more like a happy accident. People like simplistic narratives of: X person is responsible. People think everything is easily repeatable. But it takes a lot of moving parts for something to work.
>>153444027Except that's not their choice, even if they force themselves to be in relationships with the opposite sex they will still be attracted to same sex people
>>153444027I dunno. But they were very adamant that they were born that way and that there are genes that maje them gay.Even if it isnt true the epigenetics created during their life and how the mother acts and lives while the kid is in gestation will make it highly likely that the kid is homo.This is what they stated. This is cold logical science
>>153435400Dini's washed up these days too. See: Ultimate Spider-Man, Hulk and the Agents of SMASH, Batman: The Adventures Continue.
>>153444099Very true. Everyone thinks there's some genius that's really responsible but it's all about the team of people, at that point in their life, at that stage of their careers. because you can reassemble teams later and see how different it is when you bring a bunch of guys who were young and just riffing vs dads who don't want to rock the boat now or who think they are geniuses vs being trying to prove themselves
>>153444163And it isn't just about teams, it is about limitations, pushing against those limits, stretching it, but working in certain confines. So the people, the environment, all play a part. And when it works, it works. But beyond a certain point, maybe they don't have those limits anymore, so they aren't creatively thinking their way around things as much.
>>153444126No, actions are choices. It's not their fault that they are mentally ill, it is their fault if they're acting on it. >>153444136>they say it's real so it must be true!
>>153444163Its easy for people who dont understand to hero worship people. Especially in a society that actively encourages deification of people and the lie of the one genius.Ties into quasi religiosity and the divine right to rule thing.
>>153444215Who says being gay is a mental illness?
>>153441369Neither was Clancy Brown but that didn't stop Lex from showing up frequently from the second season onwards.
>>153443608Yeah you are. You're brain is either wired that way or it isn't.
>>153444283Brain plasticity and grooming are things anon. And yes there are drugs that can turn you gay or trans.
>>153444215They can choose not to act on it but that's not gonna make them any less attracted to other men
>>153440874I think it's mostly because they only had a half hour so they had to set up the problem and then move on it but unlike Superman and Batman they had a team so it had to be a problem big enough for more than one character to act on and couldn't be connected specifically to only one character's civilian life unlike the previous shows where it would typically be connected to a story Clark was working on or a business deal Bruce was part of.
>>153444154>Batman: The Adventures Continue.This actually had some intrigue, but Watchtower already showed it's ultimately a messy headache to try to make sense of the known existing DCAU events and more so to add things to it, so squeezing in characters like Jason instead or a rewrite is where it started to lose me.>The premise?Yes, but you know what I mean.>The BTAS retold from scratch with a few new ideas to begin withwould have been more palatable.
>>153444306>Brain plasticityi don't think that works the way you think it does>groomingEven if you got raped by a homo that would not change you sexual preferences
>>153444265Thousands of years of historical precedent doesn't change just because those in charge want to push mental illness.>>153444283Your brain can be rewired. That's what conversion therapy is. There's a reason the UK did not ban straight to gay therapy, but it did ban gay to straight.>>153444315Then they should seek help.
>>153444399Conversion therapy doesn't work, people just act like others want them to to get away from it. I guess you argue it "works" in that it scares people into acting and presenting straight in order to avoid going through that again, but in their heads they'll always want the dick they'll just keep it to themselves
>>153438798>Ace (although I think that episode was in Beyond but whatever).No that was the JLU epilogue not Beyond. There was a b and a plot. One where Terry's dad gets Batman Sperm inside him and another where the ace stuff happens. Or maybe it was a two parter.... it was a weird way to end the show
>>153443903I choose you to be gay.
>>153444154>Batman: The Adventures Continue.Batman saving the Joker from a car landing on him instead of an injured Joker was fucking retarded. (That's how he did Red Hoods origin)
>>153444482I mean injured Jason fuck why is half this thread talking about aids and faggots anyways be mad about Jason instead
>>153444482Batman is morally evil because of corporate necessity. No story csn handwaive how awful the character is in so many ways.
>>153444223Or maybe some individuals are actually just good at what they do and deserve credit?
>>153444551No. Everyone is shit and doesn't deserve praise and our species is a cancer and needs to be wiped out
>>153444099>>153444163Some people are kinda genius that do it themselves, like with comic or manga creators (dungeon meshi for example)
>>153444551Yes. But how much of what they are praised for is their effort and ability alone?
>>153434627I’m began to learn that when I found out he was pushing for Babs and Bruce
>>153444163>>153444223Maybe you and other animation fans don't respect auteur theory, and that's fine, but shows and movies need a VISION and its usually one person that communicates it, and why THEY deserve the credit. That's why best director is an award category. Maybe its two directors or three, but there's a central head of the moving body that tells everyone what to do.
>>153444603Ego is needed to survive and thrive in those environments. And you csn respect the vision they have. But that vision is tempered by a close group and necessary constraints.
>>153442846I maintain that everything up to Episode 4 is kino.
>>153438963>Nick MullenGet a real friend, homo
>>153444415I just want people who aren't exactly like me in every way to stop existing. Is that so wrong?
>>153434577>>153434627bruce timm created naughty and nice and is thus beyond reproach>>153444099based
>>153444713Not necessarily, but if you want to get rid of gay people you are gonna have to do it the old fashioned way
>>153444749No, everyone should just magically transform into identical clones of me. I don't have to explain how, just figure it out.
>>153444603>shows and movies need a VISIONand a soundtrack and a script and a schedule and a cast and equipment and…
>>153434674It certainly wasn't cheap. The animation quality was a lot more consistent and fluid.
>>153444265>>153444399It's a personality disorder (arguably not any more in western countries, but it absolutely fits the definition of a personality disorder in many non-western countries). I don't think a personality disorder counts as a mental illness, but I'm not an expert.
>>153435044>talking about a creator in a comic book animated series>somehow brings up communistsYAAAAAAAWWWWWWHHHHHNNNNN!!get new material bot-kun
>>153434577Batman is highly satanic as The Corruption of the Innocent proves
>>153443903Not being born gay doesn't mean that it is a choice. That is a false dichotomy. Factors around puberty that are outside of your control or choice could make you gay, for example.
>>153445930Well grooming and social engineering are heavily pushed as normal and when called on it they use "gay is genetic" as a convenient lie. We all know its happening now. We all read the epstein papers and recognize the attempts to change the secuakity if prople through media assault and porn. And drugs can in fact change sexuality and gender identity. >>153444380You dont know what any of that means or what it entails.
>>153439076I don't think Dwayne came into the picture until midway through Justice League. By then, Batman had already decayed quite a bit.
>>153444892Your interaction inspired me to draw this
>>153445851satan is imaginary
>>153445851Stfu>>153446656Not really
I prefer TNBA to BTAS. I’m not sorry. The voices, the tone, most of the designs, the action, the writing, the pacing. It was all better. Don’t @ me.Also why did Kevin age so strangely?
>>153434577Season 3 of the reimagined Battlestar Galactica, when I realised that RDM while a good writer, wasn't *that* good a writer.
>>153446228pretty good
>>153444267He was a villain and they created a story arc where he could appear as a recurring villain.All these shows have a voice acting budget. They can only use so many people in an single episode and in a single season. They have to make choices about who they can and can't use. Hereafter, which was packed with voice actors, had to replace Lori Petty's Livewire with Hawkgirl's VA. It was pretty awful, so from that point on, whenever they showed Livewire, they never had her speak again.
>>153434627Batman was saved in the edit
>>153445953Conspiracy theorist nutjob
>>153446688>Also why did Kevin age so strangely?because he almost certainly had HIV/AIDS, we've basically known this since the 2000's in places like Toon zone, we were just polite enough to not talk about it much.His extreme weightloss and aging around the 2000's was noted.
