Yesterday we read the end of Amazing Spider-Man, today we'll read the start of Amazing Spider-Man>previous threadshttps://pastebin.com/Bdc6HpGW
>>153470566Didn't we just have a scorpion story?
Gotta have my Spider-Man
>>153470589There can never be enough Scorpion stories
>>153470660Well too bad, anonHe's retired for good
>>153470566Oh, hey, it's the Scorpion suit from the PS1 game.
>>153470647I NEVER liked Aunt May's hate for Spider-Man. It always undermined her thoughtfulness and loving nature, especially when talking to Peter.
>>153470773It's funny for a gag, but for the most part I agree
>>153470750Wanda!
>>153470775When did Robbie get hired back?
>>153470773It had its place, but after a while it just makes her look like a stupid, ungrateful bitch.
>>153470824I'm guessing in the months since Norman's been gone
>>153470566So that's where the game got the suit from.
Hmmm curious
Whaaaaaat??
Who are these shmucks that Mac Gargan is the best they can scrape up for weapon material?
Octavius' demonstration?
Always gonna have a soft spot for this entire run. First Spider-Man run I ever followed as a kid.
>>153471129A very explosive one, from the looks of that panel.
>>153470566AAAAAAAAHHH
>>153471129Chapter One reference
>>153471251https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC_vyWh0XMM
>>153470773It doesn't even make sense here either. She gave Spider-Man a kiss on the cheek for saving Peter during JMD's spectacular run
>>153471299And then there was the whole thing with the Burglar's return. Every time she stops hating Spidey, they just backpedal later on for no reason.
>>153470988It's Ben! He's back to save us all!
>>153471129Chapter One retconned the origin story and for a while they were pretending it was canon
Not earlier today, Peter. Yesterday.
>>153470881I remember back in the day I hated that the game used that design, it felt like a blemish on an otherwise pretty good game
>>153471380Did they ever explained why they backpedaled on Chapter One? Knowing Marvel i don't believe it was due to fan outrage
THE END until tomorrowNot a terrible relaunch thus far, I do appreciate that Peter is sticking to his promiseFeels like I've missed something by not reading this "Chapter One" but it wasn't on my list
>>153470892Oh boy, Horizon Labs almost15 years too soon.
>>153471800Thanks for storytiming, Magister!
>>153471087>>153471082This feels like setup to explain who the fuck Shoc was, but I know we'll never see him again.
>>153471800Thanks MagisterTrust me you're missing nothing by not reading chapter one
>>153471495No, it was just quietly ignored. Mind you, this is pre-EIC Quesada and at this time I think Brevoort was only overseeing Avengers, Hulk, and Thunderbolts.I believe the only thing that referenced the Chapter One origin outside of a Spider-Man book, was Kevin Smith and Joe Quesada's Daredevil.
>>153471129Is this the time period when they started trying to make things more connected like Norman and Sandman being cousins?
>>153471800>but it wasn't on my listNext you'll tell me you're gonna skip Trouble, too.
>>153471854Yes
>>153471800I storytime'd Chapter One four years agohttps://desuarchive.org/co/thread/128467046/https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/128481291/https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/128503811/
>>153471849Marvel doesn't seem to want to talk about it, all i could find is a vague mention of it that "wasn’t being universally embraced" in Tom Brevoort's blog (see Blind Item)https://tombrevoort.substack.com/p/106-splash-the-zeros
>>153471800Chapter one wasn’t on the list? It’s weird that isn’t but untold tales was.
>>153472642Untold Tales is canon and Chapter One isn't, I imagine that's the distinction
>>153472476Man, he comes off like a total tool.
>>153472642My list is only 616
>>153471800Ah we're skippng Chapter One? Damn shame.
It's really sad when you can say Mackie/Byrne is a step up from what we've had since Spencer got run off. Not a major step up but still.
>>153470944Left is Walt Simonson, I forget who Javier is based on
>>153470892>>153470916>>153470944I'm gonna give it 5 issues before this gets dropped completely
>>153470697>>153470750>>153470760Byrne used to draw some of the sexiest girls in comics in the 70s through to early 90s, but by here in the late 90s something just felt a little off, just not as good as he used to be anymore.>>153470805IIRC Byrne said he hated that Scarlet Witch costume and felt something that sexy and revealing was all wrong for her character.
>>153471324She's old and senile, sometimes she forgets she stopped hating that awful Spider-Man.
>>153475841I don't think it even lasted that long.Peter eventually loses this job because he never shows up to work, the comics literally forget about it after this big introduction.
the infamous john byrne run, now I will see if it is that infamous.
>>153476083>something just felt a little off, just not as good as he used to be anymore.He's an uncontrolled type 1 diabetic who started developing cataracts which is why he hasn't gone any further with that X-Men series that just got printed and he steadfastly refuses to do appearances any more. You didn't hear that from me.
>>153476149>now I will see if it is that infamous.Like a lot of bad 1990s comics, it was hated at the time for the "things have never been this bad for this long before" of it all, and that hate has tended to linger even after worse later runs happened that didn't get the same kind of hatred. I don't know why it happens, maybe fans just got desensitized to things always being bad, like you lose the ability to get angry about the new stupid thing Marvel have done, but can retain a decades long grudge about stupid things they did back when you could still care.
>>153476094This start does feel like a return to the status quo of 60's-70's Spider-Man. Aunt May dislikes Spider-Man once again and treats Peter like he is a frail kid. Jameson is back to treating Spider-Man and other masked heroes like they are the plague.
>>153476232It's relative. In the 90's, you still have Conway and JDM in the rearview; not that long ago, you were getting Spider-Man at its best. Much better days dangle in somewhat recent memory, and that makes things look so much worse.What's in the rearview in the 10's and 20's? Slott? Spencer?
Reading bump
>>153470737This is what pulled me into the thread
>>153470866Buildings keep falling on him...
>>153471031>Kirby 2000 generator>doesn't generate Kirby KracklesLaaaaame
>>153471421God I wish that was me
>>153472476Why is he trying to avoid mentioning John Byrne? He hasn't worked for Marvel in a very long time
>>153476083If he had a problem with her full Gypsy outfit, he should have designed one to his preferences when he was writing the Wackos instead of giving her endless grief and chopping off her hair.
>>153480137It's funny cause in that same page there's this exchange:JV:>In the late 90s Hulk relaunch under John Byrne and Ron Garney - is it true that Byrne submitted a plot that simply said 'Wolverine and Hulk fight"? Was he fired off the book?>Too bad as it was off to an interesting start (early hints that the Hulk may be responsible for casualties, mind control, return of Tyrannus, etc). I can see Byrne being obtuse about something like that though.Brevoort:>I tell you, JV, John and I have maintained a relatively stable detente concerning this situation, where neither of us has spoken about this situation in detail publicly. And even though it’s been decades, I can’t see any good reason to rock that boat. Sorry.
>>153470737Funny how no one mentioned PS1 Ock here >>153471171
>>153470799Asking Peter to Spider-Man politely.
>>153481008Ehhh, sorta?
>>153481008It's cause the PS1 version modified the look enough that it still looked differentPS1 version has the classic look for Ock's face (sunglasses instead of goggles, classic hair). The main carryovers from Byrne's design is like the lower half
>>153481008Neversoft had the sense not to give him all those superfluous exosuit and doofy goggles. The only part in common is the green smock.
>>153481008>>153481155It's smock but also legs that sort-of evoke the metal legs from Byrne's design. But with the way they're depicted in the game you can just assume it's just pants.
>>153481088>>153481205So it's kinda close at least so I'll take it. We also have Romita JR's Venom with small wiggling tendrils which is something Neversoft Venom also does.
>>153476232It's about as bad as Slott. It's not as bad as Beyond/Wells but it's in no way good either.
>>153473250>>153480960I'm guessing Brevoort insulted or talked down to Byrne in some kind of way which pissed him off and led to Byrne just washing his hands of working with Brevoort. In 2001 Shooter was supposed to do a miniseries sequel to the Korvac Saga that never went anywhere because Brevoort was being nitpicky about him doing things that Quesada specifically asked Shooter to do (like bring back the Surfer and kill Rich/introduce a new Nova) and basically treating Shooter in a way that he felt was incredibly condescending.Brevoort seems to have a reputation of acting like a know-it-all prick towards older creators so I wouldn't at all be surprised if he acted the same way towards Byrne.
>>153481629>It's about as bad as Slott.I disagree, it's bad but more tolerable to read than SlottAt a minimum, anything after Superior is utterly unbearable compared to the lows of the Byrne/Mackie era
>>153481629I wouldn't go that far.
>>153482237I mean the blind item is basically Brevoort outlining his time on Hulk back when Byrne was relaunching it with Ron Garney drawing it, just without mentioning names. (the Annual he's referring to is the Hulk Annual, that had "Chapter One" on it and retconned part of the Hulk origin to involve Skrull spies instead of Russian spies) Even though Brevoort said otherwise he has mentioned a variation of that story before but naming Byrne on Marvel's site or something, it's just long deleted. But yeah knowing the stories about Brevoort and how he acts towards fans online it wouldn't surprise me if there was more to the story that we don't know about
>>153474675Why would Walt even be used here? Dude doesn't even really care about Spidey, right? >>153476083>Byrne hated that costumeLemme guess, combined with his idea infecting everyone else on editorial that Viz not getting with Wanda should occur due to him being a robot and his probable pure waifuism (I sometimes don't mind this stance) is why he has this opinion as well. Fucking lame.>>153476105Welp, writers always do that shit. It's like the status quo when it involves anything civilian is immediately dumped. You'd think they'd recognize the task that is before them when they know about Peter's role in Spidey's life and vice versa. The y'know whole gimmick. But if editors get in the way, I understand but yeah I'd fucking quit if an editor would do that shit. Yeah I know they're desperate. But like you're doomed to fail if you do that shit.>>153482927I think Superior itself is unbearable desu. >>153483699That walking hat sure loves typed responses and not any of the actual interaction with fans...hmm...
>>153484108Byrne might've just drawn him in as an in-joke, because Simonson's one of Byrne's few friends in the industry
>>153484108>I think Superior itself is unbearable desu.I think so too but that's why I just said "at a minimum". I expect there'll be people insisting Superior is better written than Byrne/Mackie (it's not) but I accept that there will be people who think that. I can't accept thinking that Byrne/Mackie is worse than the part of the run that brought us Slott's backstory for Silk, Spider-Verse, and Clone Conspiracy
Senior brothers, I call on you now for guidance.As someone with what could be called "surface level+" understanding of the zeitgeist of some eras of western comics, what was the vibe around this release? The industry conceit, and the general response to it? My initial impression isn't quite positive, with >>153476105 and >>153471274 / >>153471380 being my main touchpoints informing my understanding of the overall attitude of the creators: an establishing plot point that was, seemingly, quickly discarded, and a recent series that was met with a not-so-recently retconning behind-the-scenes.A Propos to that, >>153470711 and >>153470760 portraying the Avenger's relationship with Spider-Man, someone whose full relationship with the group I haven't had a full grasp on (that's more of a lack of understanding how people viewed the pre-MCU Avengers, more than anything else)
>>153474307Spider-Man: Chapter One is a cheap retelling of the Lee-Ditko run Spider-Man: Chapter One is a mini-series of thirteen issues that ran from 1998-1999 and was written and drawn by John Byrne. It’s focused on “remaking” the Ditko run, which unfortunately makes that and Kurt Busiek’s then-recent “Untold Tales” story non-canonical. You can read my review of these two runs here. Chapter One was a critical failure and was soon retconned into being another universe. I even heard that Steve Ditko was going to make a new Spidey series but refused once he heard of a Chapter One (although it could just as easily be Untold Tales, I’m not sure which it was.Basically, the series is “What if Spider-Man became Spider-Man in the ‘90s? Computers are a thing in the series. There’s a lot of ‘90s references ruta date the series even more than the ‘60s comics, like mentioning the Rolling Stones or comparing Norman Osborn to Trump. Also the characters wear modern clothing and have modern hairstyles, so characters Liz and Mrs. Connors have long hair instead of their ‘60s styles. But for some reason Betty Brant still has ‘60s hair?Speaking of Osborn, he’s shown to be pulling the strings behind several of Spidey’s villains. He backs Electro and the Sandman in particular, and owns a TV studio that Mysterio works at (for some reason). By the way, the reason Norman and Sandman have similar hair? This movie says it’s because the two are distantly related. SO stupid.
>>153486852This retelling combines Peter’s origin with Dr. Octopus’. Peter attends Dr. Octopus’ science exhibition on radiation, but a spider slips into the ray and causes a FREAKING EXPLOSION, bonding Otto’s arms to himself. The spider then bites an unconscious Peter, who has to go the hospital and is expected to die until he makes a full recovery because of his new powers. The burglar isn’t a man who robs the wrestling arena, but instead helps Uncle Ben bring a new computer to the house. He then stalks the house to rob it, but actually sees Peter leave the house in his Spidey costume. Instead of assuming he lives there, the burglar stupidly thinks Peter was robbing it too, which he proudly announces when Spidey comes to apprehend him after he kills Uncle Ben.In the original Spidey issues he tried to cash a check but was turned away because he was wearing a costume. In Chapter One, the bank allows him to open an account when he shows up. Wait, I thought Chapter One was the one supposed to be doing the deconstruction and “fixing” the old issues?Mary Jane is actually shown to be a student at Peter’s school. She sees him leaving his window as Spider-Man, then disappears from the rest of the seriesThe Chameleon works for Dr. Doom because he can’t be a Communist anymore. Electro works for Osborn and wears a blue costume that’s only slightly less stupid than his classic costume (the only costume I’ve really ever liked for Electro is his suit from the Spectacular show.) Dr. Octopus has metal arms and legs in addition to his four tentacles. WTF? The Vulture design also kind of sucks but not to the same level as Octopus.
>>153486879This series has a really annoying structure for about seven issues where Peter fights a bad guy for half an issue to the end. The next issue then starts with a totally new villain. It then flashes back to the ending of the story from the previous issue before ending on ANOTHER cliffhanger. This happens again and again and it’s tiresome to read.Part of the charm of the old run is that it’s like a soap opera. But we only see Peter fight villains. Then all of a sudden he’s dating Betty or Liz has a crush on him instead of hating him, because it all happened off screen here.Because there’s only thirteen issues Byrne cut a lot of issues. So no return appearances from Vulture or Doc Ock, no Enforcers, no Living Brain, no Annual #1.Every issue has been Byrne aping an issue of Ditko so it’s weird when in the penultimate issue there’s a original story where Spidey meets Giant-Man and Wasp.Apparently there was a Hulk: Chapter One too? I haven’t read it but if it’s as bad as this I’ll avoid it.This series would eventually be deemed non-canonical and happening in its own universe, Earth-98121. I’ve heard there’s a different storyline where Peter investigates the disappearances of people who were at the explosion that gave him his powers (referencing this story) so I don’t know how Marvel addressed that.This series does have some influence on future stories: the idea of updating Spidey for modern times of course resulted in Ultimate Spider-Man, which also combined villain origins in Norman and Doc Ock getting powers from an explosion. The idea of Osborn creating supervillains has appeared in The Spectacular Spider-Man and the Amazing film series.
>>153486902While this series is ultimately harmless, the fact that it tried to replace the timeless Ditko run and make the carefully researched Untold Tales run pointless makes it feel insulting reading it. This series just cements the fact that the ‘90s was a terrible time for Spider-Man, since this series was right after Clone Saga.
>>153474307>Ah we're skippng Chapter One? Damn shameSpider-Man: Chapter One is a strange little comic. In context, it makes a great deal of sense. Spider-Man has always been one of Marvel’s most popular and iconic comic book heroes. In the late nineties, the comic book industry was trying to figure out how to push forward, following the sales explosion and implosion of the mid-nineties. With superheroes like Spider-Man and the X-Men primed for a transition to the big screen, revisiting the early days of these heroes made a great deal of sense.And John Byrne was the logical choice for a book like this. Byrne was a unique talent. He had enjoyed incredibly successful runs on Uncanny X-Men and The Fantastic Four at Marvel. More than that, though, he had already overseen the successful relaunch of another classic character. In the wake of DC’s universe-altering line-wide Crisis on Infinite Earths, John Byrne had been the writer who re-drafted Superman’s origin as part of the Man of Steel miniseries in 1986.And so, Marvel gave us Spider-Man: Chapter One. The comic was a reimagining of the earliest days of the wall-crawling superhero, spanning thirteen issues and covering many of the character’s earliest encounters with his classic foes. John Byrne was writing the script and providing the artwork for the comics, which seemed primed to introduced Spider-Man to a whole new generation of readers, giving audiences a back-to-basics take on Spider-Man that was fresh and accessible.
>>153486952At least, that was the idea. In actuality, Spider-Man: Chapter One feels like a massive miscalculation on just about everybody’s part. It seems to be aiming for some middle ground between Kurt Busiek and Pat Olliffe’s contemporary Untold Tales of Spider-Man and Brian Michael Bendis’ pending Ultimate Spider-Man. It seems like Byrne is never sure whether he’s simply re-telling the classic Stan Lee and Steve Ditko run on The Amazing Spider-Man with a few bells and whistles, or trying to make it his own.It’s easy to see why Byrne might be conflicted. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko invented the modern superhero in the pages of The Amazing Spider-Man. Over that run, the duo managed to tell a superbly constructed superhero origin story, offering the reader a cast of fully-developed and well-rounded characters inhabiting a fantastical run. From a narrative and storytelling perspective – if not as much from a technical viewpoint – those tales still hold up. Anybody wanting to try classic sixties comics couldn’t do any better than Lee and Ditko’s Amazing Spider-Man.So there’s understandably some trepidation there. This isn’t quite like Man of Steel, where Superman’s original adventures were radically different from later iterations of the character, and so Byrne really didn’t feel anchored to them. Byrne is a creator who is very clearly fond of continuity, and who is very well-versed in the logic and workings of the Marvel Universe. Spider-Man: Chapter One was never going to be a bold reimagining of the classic Spider-Man mythos that re-worked and re-invented the web-slinger. There wasn’t going to be the large-scale reinvention that came with Ultimate Spider-Man.
>>153486967At the same time, Lee and Ditko’s writing is dated. It’s inevitable. The comics had been written over three decades earlier, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t speak to a nineties audience. So, if the idea is to present a version of the origin that is acceptable to new readers, there has to be a certain amount of flexibility. Spider-Man: Chapter One has to accept that comic book storytelling conventions have changed in the years since Amazing Fantasy #15. What is the point of re-telling a classic story that is well-told if you aren’t going to try to modernise it in some way.However, Spider-Man: Chapter One never seems to find its feet. Byrne doesn’t seem willing to break from the work of Lee and Ditko in any meaningful way. Instead, Byrne gives all the superficial trappings of modernity. There are a lot of computers in Spider-Man: Chapter One, as if to assure readers that this story totally takes place in the recent past. “Wow!” Peter exclaims in the first issue. “The computer I wanted! You guys are the greatest!” Later, we see Uncle Ben purchasing a “top of the line home computer system.” It’s that same computer system that prompts the burglar to break into the house, because everyone likes computers!However, these small touches are less than convincing. Byrne steadfastly refuses to reinvent his story in any substantial way, instead contriving to justify all the classic elements that Lee and Ditko used. Despite the fact that the story takes place in the late nineties, long after the Cold War, Byrne retains the emphasis on radiation. Peter is still bitten by a radioactive spider. Otto Octavius is “the most brilliant mind in the radiation field.” Sandman is created by a nuclear blast, albeit one conducted by the French.
>>153486982Indeed, Spider-Man: Chapter One reads almost like fan fiction, as if we’re watching John Byrne as he tries to “fix” any alleged inconsistencies or problems with Lee and Ditko’s original vision. Byrne works very hard to tie together scraps of continuity in order to make the Spider-Man mythos seem a bit more consistent than it appeared in that original run. This leads to a lot of completely unnecessary additions to the mythos, plot contrivances that exist so things can happen pretty much exactly as they did before. Spider-Man: Chapter One reads like a thirteen-issue-long attempt to claim a “no-prize.”So we get answers to questions that nobody asked. How come Norman Osborn and Flint Marko have the same hairstyle? Is it because Steve Ditko had a particular style of drawing? Nonsense! It’s because they “happen to share a great-grandmother.” Does the end of the Cold War mean we’ll need an entirely new origin for former Soviet spy the Chameleon? Nah! He’s just working for Doctor Doom now! Byrne even explains the strange aliens allied with the Tinkerer, drawing in a bit of retroactive continuity other writers had used to explain the early weirdness of Lee and Ditko’s Amazing Spider-Man.And yet there’s also a sense of continuity tinkering at work here. Byrne is working with the retroactive knowledge that Norman Osborn will become Spider-Man’s most important and iconic adversary. While the Green Goblin was a major player in those Lee and Ditko issues, Byrne really pushes the character to the fore here – he makes Norman a criminal mastermind behind pretty much all of the big events of the series. He conspires with Electro; he funds Sandman; Mysterio works at “Osborn Studios.” Norman Osborn is “the guy who makes Donald Trump seem like a nickel and dimer.
>>153486545Up to this point Spidey’s been offered membership on the Avengers at least three different times, and he was a reserve for a while. They like him, but they all agree (including Spidey himself) that he shouldn’t be a full timer
>>153486994While Byrne is tying up all these loose ends, and stressing the importance of figures who would become more important with hindsight, there’s none of the organic developments that featured in the Lee and Ditko era. The Big Man doesn’t feature at all, as if only characters who will be important to future stories are allowed to cameo in Spider-Man: Chapter One. These stories are important not as stories themselves, but as building blocks to what followed. He even works in a Mary Jane cameo along the lines of Untold Tales of Spider-Man.However, Byrne keeps all the more surreal elements of Lee and Ditko’s classic run. He avoids any real attempt to streamline the run, or to reinvent Spider-Man with an eye to what the character eventually became. So we get many of the same awkward plot beats from the original run, like Spider-Man flying in a fighter jet to save a space shuttle. It was a scene that seemed quite surreal with only a handful of Spider-Man stories in print. It seems even more out-of-character in light of the decades of stories that have followed.And so, it feels like Byrne is very much a slave to the Marvel Universe history of the Lee and Ditko run. While he may enhance the importance of Norman Osborn, a lot of the material still feels like Byrne running through a checklist. We get Spider-Man as a wrestler. We get Spider-Man trying to join the Fantastic Four. We get Flash Thompson kidnapped by Doctor Doom. We get Daredevil teaming up with Spider-Man at the circus.
>>153487007We even get familiar dialogue and page compositions – like Spider-Man’s confrontation with the Sandman or his reaction to the unmasking of Electro. “Huh!” Spider-Man gasps. “If this was a TV show, right about now I’d be saying ‘ah ha! so it was him all along!’ But I’ve never seen this clown before!” In the classic comic, this non-reveal was a clever skewering of genre conventions playing into Ditko’s approach to The Amazing Spider-Man. Here, it feels like Byrne is simply imitating a cool moment that he saw one time.here are other problems. It is clear that Byrne is trying to channel the somewhat anti-social version of Peter Parker that existed in the earliest days of The Amazing Spider-Man, a far more bitter and cynical character than the version who existed under Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. However, Byrne’s characters are just flat-out hard to like. His refusal to stop the burglar isn’t a moral lapse or a moment of weakness or even an act of laziness. It’s just Peter being a jerk. Aunt May and Uncle Ben are in financial trouble because they use rent money to buy Peter (you guessed it!) computers.At one point, Peter considers becoming a criminal in order to help make ends meet, but he quickly dismisses the idea. He doesn’t dismiss it because it’s a bad idea, or because his Uncle Ben taught him the difference between right and wrong. He dismisses the idea because he might get caught. “No! No! What am I thinking? I can’t turn to crime to solve my problems! If someone like the Fantastic Four were to track me down, capture me… it would break Aunt May’s heart.” Because that would be the real crime.
>>153487025It doesn’t help that Byrne structures the first six or seven issues awkwardly. The writer and artist has a habit of joining the story in media res, before flashing back to explain what happened. It’s not a bad trick, but it does get bothersome if used too frequently. More than that, the pacing seems wrong. Somewhere in the first few issues, it seems like Byrne’s structure gets skewy, so each issue contains the second half of one story and the first half of the next. It feels a little clumsy and awkward; Byrne really should have a tighter approach to structure than that.Spider-Man: Chapter One is a massive disappointment. It isn’t quite the affectionate “dancing between the raindrops” approach to continuity as the contemporaneous Untold Tales of Spider-Man, but it also isn’t the “throw it all out and start from scratch” approach of Ultimate Spider-Man. Byrne’s thirteen-issue comic seems to sit between the two extremes, and winds up satisfying nobody.
>>153486902>Apparently there was a Hulk: Chapter One too? I haven’t read it but if it’s as bad as this I’ll avoid it.It was basically, Hulk origin, but the spies are Skrulls instead of CommiesPAD took a jab at it in an issue of Captain Marvel
>>153470697She looks kinda like Anya Taylor joy here
>>153470647Aunt May are you really not going to question being kidnapped and drugged for months?
>>153471299It’s just a case of Byrne wanting to make the comic what he remembers it should be
>>153483699One of the things that Shooter mentioned in the various places where he's talked about that mini is that Brevoort in his emails was trying to lecture him on how to "properly introduce the characters" or something and Shooter's response to that was always some variation of "I've been introducing characters since before he was born". IIRC Brevoort's also said he stopped reading Marvel books some time in the '80s because he didn't like them so I suspect that towards someone like Byrne he would have been especially dismissive and arrogant.There's also a Substack entry from last year where he mentions/reprints an old memo he'd made of what amounted to an early version of Ultimate called Great Divide where there'd be some kind of Crisis style event which would create a spinoff universe where they could do rebooted versions of the classic characters without affecting the mainline 616 and specifically said he suggested it to avoid any "Chapter One" style sweeping changes to "his beloved MU". So I also suspect that Brevoort just straight up got autistically mad over Chapter One and has had it in for Byrne and that story for literal decades because of it. Which, yeah, Chapter One does suck but it's Brevoort so all I can say is come on.
>>153471299IMO it only makes sense if they go with the idea that she always subconsciously knew, or at least suspected, that Peter was Spider-Man and her dislike of Spider-Man is because "he" is constantly putting Peter in danger and after losing Ben she wouldn't be able to bear losing him as well.
>>153474307>Ah we're skippng Chapter One? Damn shame.Not really it's pretty bad thus it should be avoided like a plague I find it rather amazing that Byrne wrote something that bad and yet his fanfiction of his X-Men: Elsewhen is something of a masterpiece what's even more amazing is it is getting published for real. Then again maybe it's no real suprise I mean why is this fanfiction getting published because it's damn good that's why I will be buying X-Men: Elsewhen for sure as I am sure many other X-Men fans wiill be buying it also, As for Spider-Man: Chapter One that shoud go in the trash can.Oh one thing and this is not a shitpost I along with the help of some friends have written several series which are alternative takes of what if Gwen Stacy had lived one focues her marring peter and what happens after. Another version we find out she did not really "die" since she in fact a mutant there is also a third version but I am keeping my lips sealed about what that is about. Anyway as soon marvel/disney goes broke/sold I plan to publish them.
>>153486852>I even heard that Steve Ditko was going to make a new Spidey series but refused once he heard of a Chapter One (although it could just as easily be Untold Tales, I’m not sure which it was.It was Untold Tales that Ditko objected to (without reading). I believe Busiek and Byrne both confirmed this.>Basically, the series is “What if Spider-Man became Spider-Man in the ‘90s? Computers are a thing in the series. I almost want to say that it was more "What if Spider-Man became Spider-Man in the 80s," but because "present-day" Spider-Man is in the late 90s, it could well be anywhere between the late 80s to the early 90s.>There’s a lot of ‘90s references ruta date the series even more than the ‘60s comics, like mentioning the Rolling Stones or comparing Norman Osborn to Trump. Ironically, that ended up not being a dated reference. >Also the characters wear modern clothing and have modern hairstyles, so characters Liz and Mrs. Connors have long hair instead of their ‘60s styles. But for some reason Betty Brant still has ‘60s hair?I don't really see Betty's hair in this as that far off from like Demi Moore when she had blonde short hair in the 90s, the part that was odder to me was her not changing her hair by the end of Chapter One; ASM #18 is what the final chapter of Chapter One was adapting and by that point Betty had the bobcut.
>>153486994>Byrne even explains the strange aliens allied with the Tinkerer, drawing in a bit of retroactive continuity other writers had used to explain the early weirdness of Lee and Ditko’s Amazing Spider-Man.I mean Roger Stern wrote the story back in the 80s that revealed the aliens working for the Tinkerer were Mysterio and his friends, and Stern is also one of the few friends Byrne has in the industry, so it's probably a deliberate inclusion
>>153486902>Part of the charm of the old run is that it’s like a soap opera. But we only see Peter fight villains. Then all of a sudden he’s dating Betty or Liz has a crush on him instead of hating him, because it all happened off screen here.This was one of the major problems I had with this, it seemed like Byrne had to speed up and get past that stuff. I can't tell if part of that is because he decided that Betty Brant is much older than Peter, despite Stan saying in the letters page that Betty and Peter were around the same age.
>>153486545>As someone with what could be called "surface level+" understanding of the zeitgeist of some eras of western comics, what was the vibe around this release? The industry conceit, and the general response to it?This was at a time when comics got badly affected by the crash and Marvel had gone into bankruptcy so Marvel were trying anything that could get fans back on board, and that usually meant doing an old thing that worked. Examples aside from this era of Spider-Man are Heroes Return, with Waid and Garney put back on Captain America and George Perez returning to Avengers; another is Claremont returning to X-Men.When the announcement of Byrne revamping Spider-Man happened, there was buzz in general, but if you were on the AOL Marvel boards (where fans and creators interacted at the time), there were signs it was going to have problems. For instance Byrne was starting to get a negative reputation on his interactions with some fans online, even as far back as earlier in the decade. Another was that he said to Kurt Busiek that Untold Tales of Spider-Man was going to get "Man of Steel'd" out of there.After Chapter One launched, it got high orders but the reception got increasingly negative. PAD did a critical review of it which you can read here: https://www.peterdavid.net/2013/06/07/comic-reviews-spider-man-chapter-one/And Wizard was less merciful, taking shots at it and Byrne in various issues, including this review seen here. There were others who didn't like Chapter One and the Byrne/Mackie ongoing but those come to mind.
>>153487192The strange thing is while PAD made fun of that annual in a comic, I don't recall if he ever did a review of it or talked about it anywhere else.
>>153480330Byrne did design a new costume for Wanda when he was working on West Coast Avengers, but it was a costume for her villain arc. For better or worse, he had no power over other artists and the costumes they'd later design for her. >>153484108Byrne saw Wanda as a woman who didn't like to dress overtly sexy or show a lot of skin, but between Byrne leaving Avengers and Perez designing that costume, she'd already worn several other revealing costumes in Force Works and Heroes Reborn, a precedent had been set that she was now "the sexy one" and Perez just escalated to a level that surpassed anything else in the Big 2 at the time.Going back to Byrne's Spider-Man, he's known for modelling the characters he draws on real people, usually actors and actresses, sometimes models, did he ever say who he based his Peter and MJ on?
>>153486545>what was the vibe around this release? The industry conceit, and the general response to it?Marvel themselves were hyping the Spider-Man relaunch bigly, they even got Wizard Magazine to do a Spider-Man Special promoting it, but the fandom was generally not hyped for it, despite the general reaction of apathy to most of the non-JMD-written books of the previous year or two. Like >>153490968 says, Byrne himself was becoming more of a divisive figure and no longer the industry rockstar who'd bring tens of thousands of new readers onto a book just for showing up there, and Spidey fans were FURIOUS over The Final Chapter and the bait and switch plot where Aunt May returned instead of Peter and MJ's lost baby.In short, people went into Chapter One and the relaunched books already being against them, and the books did nothing to change fan opinion, and Wizard went from promoting it in advance to complaining about it as soon as they actually got to read it.Prior to this era, Mackie was generally considered a cromulent B-tier Spider-Man writer who didn't really have anyone hating him, but despite Byrne having a lot of input into the plots (the Sandman story in ASM #4 is all his idea), it was just Mackie credited as writer of ASM and Spider-Man, this era destroyed what reputation he had.>>153486852>By the way, the reason Norman and Sandman have similar hair? This movie says it’s because the two are distantly related. SO stupid.Byrne had previous history with this, he was the leading force in 1979 in pushing to retcon Quicksilver and Magneto into being related because they both had white hair, not getting that Magneto was just old. But by the late 90s there was an online community to ridicule the idea of Norman and Sandman being related.
>>153470711Oh fuck of, that DD actually felt the heat from that.
>>153471375Damn, so JRJR was always a shit artist, huh?
>>153492298This is after over 20 years of drawing comics for Marvel.
