When did Decompression started to be a problem (if ever) to you?
>>153484554It may not have been that specific issue but it sure felt like it was becoming a problem around that time
>>153484554When the extended panels were used for copy-pasted meme faces instead of emphasizing motion
>>153484554Never. I just dislike bad writing. I've never liked when Bendis does it.
Makes sense if this is from Whedon's run. TV writers want to pace things as if they were a show or movie. This seemed to catch on, and now all capeshit reads like a storyboard
>>153486138Probably because comics were always considered a “lower form” of art, so aspiring to be like TV/movies was considered better than being what they were.Same thing happened to video games. Nowadays you’re lucky to find a AAA title that isn’t trying to milk you for all you’re worth while playing like a shitty CW show.
>>153484554I fail to see the problem here. The timing works with everyone involved.
>>153487247Its symbolic of the fact that comics now often take 4-6 issues to resolve a single storylines that used tot take 1-2 at best because of the use of pages like OPs.And thats an issue because it leads to dogshit pacing where thing keep getting dragged out and run feel like they don't get to go anywhere nor build cleanly, because the writer only gets to tell 1-2 full stories in a year.
>>153487247>The timing works with everyone involved.it doesn’t work for a 22 page monthly release.
>>153487307It's not a very good example because it's effectively done. You need an obviously bad example that shows why it's a problem. Maybe the page from Invincible making fun of it or something Bendis wrote. The one in the OP goes through an awkward reaction between three people and then moves on, relying on visual storytelling since the situation calls for as little talking as possible.
>>153487521It's not about how much they're talking, these 5 panels should have not been an entire page
>>153484554That kind of 2000s stuff worked more than stuff now. At least for me.
>>153484554The problem is they're standing there awkwardly still while Logan looks at them. It feels unnatural.
>>153484554just now
>>153484768This. It's like everything Giffen & Dematteis did great just got thrown away.
>>153487068>>153486138I think it’s probably a mix of how they hire the same artists to do storyboards and comics (habits), live action/MCU being the mainstream entry point now (TV brain), and sequential arts education pivoting from comics focus to storyboard focus as it became a more lucrative art career, putting out artists who either ultimately aspire to theatrical boards or just have more of that approach to storytelling ingrained than comic fundies.
>>153487521No, he's still right. I became a Decompression hater when reading the ASM Ditko Run. Whether this can be found amusing or not doesn't matter, it's a poor use of space and just drags out the story too much. At best this should be one panel with a narration box saying something like: "The next Morning, Kitty and European Guy share an awkward moment with Wolverine at breakfast."Followed by a an image of Wolverine sotting at a table center panel with a raised eyebrow saying his dialogue and Kitty and European Guy on eother side (one slightly more in the foreground, one in the back) each saying their lines of dialogue. Then there should be like 8 other panels on that page that progress the story forward probably to a point that doesn't happen for like 2-4 more issues in whatever run this is.
>>153487521Its a perfect example because even if it works perfectly for what it was trying to accomplish what it is trying to accomplish is fucking stupid for the medium its inPages like that make plots that should take 2 issues to resolve take 8-12 instead.And its not even like the books can do good, decompressed action scenes to make up for having entire chapters dedicated to talking either, they still do entire fights in 2 static as fuck splash panels so they can get back to more coffee shop bullshit
>>1534845542004 or before.
>>153487247>>153487521The problem is this, it's what happens when decompression and widescreen comics combine in the wrong wayWhy do we need the panels stretched out that much to show all three of them? It's a lot of wasted space and stretches out the timing more than needed. The prior page already established that we're seeing Wolverine in the kitchen of the X-Mansion.
>>153490314>European GuyHow the fuck do you know who Kitty Pryde is, but are completely lost on Colossus?
>>153484554I prefer how manga handles it.Comic pages are too big.
>>153484768I really don't get these faggots and their obsession with forcing their pacing onto comic book pacing and then gaslighting the whole entire comic book fandom and industry into believing it is good. >No you see for our millennial/gen X humor to work we need 1 gorrillion awkward panels for the joke to landWhen you could do it all in one panel with two or three word balloons to show that in either form, it's just an uncreative throwaway joke that is meant to gain appeal from "fans" who can "relate" to this "astute observation.">>153487068I dunno even movies and TV now seem like trashy garbage like that show "Hacks" getting a bunch of awards but when I glimpsed at it, it seemed like any of the same "comedy" that I see everywhere nowadays. I think every generation has downgraded and cut their own expectations short of what good writing is. I know that sounds arrogant and presumptuous but really, everywhere I look, writing has gone downhill.>>153494145That is another problem. Digital art meant comics and their highly detailed art got a whole new standard to live up to. That's why Ditko stood out. Everyone else is doing big Prince Valiant or Neal Adams art that they are trying to emulate but Ditko is out here replicating Golden Age Batman and Superman with simplistic art that has many panels and is more ambitious story wise with how much happens. Now only people like Jim Lee, Stegman, etc. are the only ones who will draw numbers when they release new art in an issue that is up to that new ambitious fidelity that digital can bring. They're the AAA studios equivalent where they release one new work and then like 6-10 years pass and that's it while they do variant/commissions. You can't build a business like that. Yet, everyone else tries to do watered down version of their art but in the same huge, wasteful panels/layouts.
>>153495246To add onto my post here, I do pose a question. What did Kirkman by making that parody page of Bendis's decompression? I haven't read Invincible but isn't Kirkman guilty of that shit too? Was that a moment where he was young and naive and thought comics were better than this but realized that artists aren't built like they are used to and companies aren't as caring towards the stories and creatives, where they would be more forgiving of lower sales and thus not force large events/contrived plot twists as much?
>>153495291>What did Kirkman by making that parody page of Bendis's decompression?A lot of people don't get that page of the creator isn't Bendis, it's Cory Walker.
>>153492233he probably only read X-Men comics published between January 2001 and August 2004, while Rasputin Gorbachev Stalin Blaytovich was temporarily indisposed
Can anons show examples when this works? I've yet to see it work well.
>>153495543Ok. I can see that. But I ask again, what did they mean by this? They both do that shit anyway. Is it just more insincere, "look at us, we're being lazy! LOL!" millennial self-flagellation? Where they use comedy to deflect from their lack of talent? Or say, "Hey that's supposed to be comedy and we're just improving over time, give us a break." Like the BS excuses they always use? Also Bendis was huge at the time anyway and people already recognized decompression was happening. Julius Schwartz in like 1998 or 1999 in an interview complained about it. I understand being a consistent artist on comics is hard and Ottley has made this point numerous times. But yeah, they don't get a break here. It's lame.
>>153496291OP is one of the better examples
>>153487247You could do the same thing in 1/4 of the page space
>>153484554That's nothing. Check THIS out
>>153496565How about this segment from Frank Miller's "Holy Terror"?(People have many valid complaints about this comic, but I don't actually have a problem with this particular scene. Even though it looks stupid and lazy, doing it this way gives the scene a lot of emotional impact)
>>153494145How do they do it different.
>>153496291Is stupidly easy you just need a good set up for it
>>153484554Decompression only becomes a problem if the writer doesn't understand how to properly structure their storyAyodele's Storm is a perfect example of this, since it's a comic that has a bunch of stuff happening (to the point of having a dedicated recap page with panels and issue references to previous issues), while the main story itself will get occupied on wasting several pages with random bullshit that could have easily been cut down or outright removed, along with endless timejumps that give the reader a headache
OP's page, as others have said, isn't really the problem. Yes, it is a joke that works for many people. And yes, maybe those cute character moments would be a panel or two in the past (like pic related). The real issue for me is plot. Post-Krakoa the "From the Ashes era" X-Men by Jed Mackay. This has been going since the 10th July 2024. What has happened? Well I could basically list SET UP, SET UP, SET UP, MORE SET UP. It takes 2 years for a plot line to resolve (the 3K DNX event shit coming up with evil Beast). What has Jed Mackay's X-Men done?>Set up a few new boring mutants.>Xavier crossover to get him in SPACEEEE.>Set up 3K who is being run by evil Beast.>Set up like 2 characters in thet Alaskan town they're in.>Stopped for that awful Age of Revelation crossover which I don't think is fully resolved? >Set up more trouble with the government.Where the fuck is the pay off? Is it coming?One might say, well Claremont did this or that. Claremont might have brought back characters, resolved events and done stuff as he went along, but you still had a Magneto villain story, a story with Juggernaut/Black Tom, a Sentinel story. And they had some sort of resolution.
>>153497828If old comics were a meal that could occasionally be very tasty or hearty despite their limited ingredients; modern comics are like eating a thin gruel mixed with sawdust that has been given a flashy colour.
>>153496291
>>153496565What comic or manga is that?
Probably when I was like ten and a trade of comics from long before I was born seemed to have a lot more stories than one that came out recently despite both being the same size.
>>153501113Baki
>>153497828>X-Men>payoffthis your first day on earth or what
>>153497085Manga try to avoid making all the panels the same size, for one thing. Yes, I know >>153496565 is an exception.
>>153496565Based
>>153501898Well, Baki is a good example of manga thoYou guys should think about how many Japs tried not to laugh when they saw that page on the weekly shonen champion at convenience storesThat's almost the opposite of how stiff comics have become
>>153502137The other reason why manga are more decompressed than western comics is that they have fewer panels per page. Manga average around 5-6 panels per page, but comics have 9-10.
>>153501261The chromatic aberration is goddamn soul rending, even Cassandra Cain not being a dead eyed autist doesn't help
>>153502237And of course you have to consider WHY you'd want to decompress a comic like this in the first place. It's done in manga to establish worldbuilding and mood. Scott McCloud has an extensive discussion about this in Understanding Comics.
>>153501898Another counterexample was posted at >>>/a/287858051.
>>153490314Based post. Excellent panel description.
>>153497828Fuck Claremont.
>>153502137>weekly shonenHow many issues of a manga come out a year vs comic also justifies why manga can afford to be decompressed with just talking heads, full pages of mood shots, or dumb jokes and reactions while comics can't. The plot still is paced better despite all that. Modern comic plots have 8 issues of no development at all and then 1 where they shamelessly try to cram 6 issues worth of development in at once so it feels cheap and nonsensical
>>153504878Baki has no plot 90% of the time.
>>153502237
why don't artists just make fewer larger panels? that way they can draw fewer panels *and* not have to pad shit out.
>>153484554When the prices increased
>>153484554wtf man wolverine is short but he's not 4 foot.
>>153506572He's sitting on a chair anon
When the joke is that the panels are repeated as if we haven't seen that joke five hundred fucking times before.When there's an actual point that they are just using repetition to take then it's fine if that joke or point of drama whatever has some value to it. But if it's just the same fucking 4th wall break joke then they can go fuck themselves.
>>153484554When I read Astonishing Thor and it was four or five issues of nothing that should've been told in a single one with some killer cliffhanger to finish it off. There is nothing interesting happening to justify wasting so much space.
>>153505367What I want to know is, how much of this is the artist's idea and how much is the writer's idea
>>153505210Exception
>>153502268As someone who reads "girly comics" one of the quirks is the experimental coloring>>153505210Am looking for examples but most are decent, granted am trying to read good comics here but it seems to me like is something artists do now to show off
>>153484554The man was the one giggling but the woman was the one that found his height disgusting and wished him and every men under 6' to be exterminated in that one instance.
>>153507813Number of panels per page is probably a requirement imposed by the editor and the publisher.
So all the complaints about decompression i've seen for years has always been an american thing?
>>153484554I really don't like this style of coloring.
>>153490449>coffee shop bullshitgod forbid they try to get you to grow up and learn to appreciate something other than violent pulpy schlock
>>153484554i can't think of a time I actually disliked it
>>153490314>At best this should be one panel with a narration box saying something like: "The next Morning, Kitty and European Guy share an awkward moment with Wolverine at breakfast."
>>153496565Manga can get away with decompression because it releases at 22 pages a week instead of 22 pages a month like American comics.
>>153515266Did you know that MONTHLY manga exists?
>>153515266Anyone can if they do it correctly is sort of the point of the thread
>>153515266Flying Witch gets a new chapter like every 3 months.
>>153511150same
>>153512906But this one is fine. There's something just very plain about OP's example.
>>153484554The last panel is "meanwhile in the Danger Room"
