The Punch Dimension
>>153491470It was dumb but people need to get over it
>>153491470Here's the punch
IDK if other dimensions were mentioned and I don't feel like checking right now but the idea that Cyclops' eye beams aren't lasers but are like punches is explained shockingly early in the original comic series.
>>153491470Why not just have him shoot lasers? Why did they make things complicated by making it be a giant kinetic punch from a dimension of hand throwing?
>>153491853Laser melts things, his punches only punched things. It was about making him non lethal for censors, I suppose.
>>1534918531980s Marvel Handbook writers came up with insanely retarded "scientific" explanations for character's powers, like Cyclops' eyes being a window to a dimension of pure concussive force, and Wolverine healing via meat from the meat dimension. There are no actual stories that ever reference any of these things, and later Handbooks just dropped the concepts.
>>153491865Doesn't he cut through chains and other small metal items when he reduces the focus of his vizor to a singular point?
>>153491626>Here's th-*backhanded by Spider-Man*
>>153491907Yes. And if you do that with kinetic force it cuts/punctures things, not melt them.
>>153491865And they had to be reactionless, so his head didn't fly the other direction, so portal in his eyes.
>>153491470It honestly ruined cyclops for me, because it’s so retarded
>>153491470This literally just describes any ray. The word ‘dimension’ is a smokescreen. ‘Its a certain frequency wave that comes from where that frequency is’. Right, by projecting the frequency on a vector. The origin point of the vector is the source of the frequency in this space, you say? Astounding
Regardless, the concussive force thing is cooler than lasers. It's strange and different.
>>153491470What was the strongest punch he eyeballed? It's always been inconsistent, since one moment he was blowing the heads off sentinels, only for a simple metal wall to be enough to block it the next.
>>153492027>no version of Cyclops whose head falls off whenever he uses his powersShame
>>153491470It should be a Cyclotron, a particle accelerator
>>153492116IIRC in the original panel where they explain this he's destroying a tank which I think is the most impressive thing I've seen him do
>>153491916The X-Men were supposed to be the heroic variant of your average group of superpowed goons. Perfectly drilled teamwork was supposed to be their biggest strength. Even now, most of them would be KO by one landed punch from Cap or Spidy
>>153492165>destroying a tank>his most impressive whedoncykeremovesvisor.jpg
>>153491916Spider-Man's Golden Age Superman-tier. He just always holds back with his villains and muggers since he could kill them most of them easy. It's why putting him on a team is overkill for basic bitch missions which he could easily do himself.
Why do autists need everything to be explained? Can't they suspend their disbelief?
>>153492545>Why do autists need everything to be explained?because....theyre autist
>>153491470>The Punch Dimensionpeople being mad about this is retarded mutant powers coming from connecting to dimensions would make way more sense for how a billion different powers supposedly come from one fucking gene
>>153492545The narrative utility of a magical ability is related to how well it's explained in-universe. If it can do anything for no reason, it is difficult to have meaningful stakes, since the author can just decide that anything can happen at any time. But if the audience knows how an ability works, its limitations and functions, they can anticipate how it would or would not function in the situations the characters face. If it can't just do something to resolve the plot point at hand, or needs some clever problem solving, those are understandable sources of tension and stakes, and lends verisimilitude to the fictional world.
>>153491470It sounds more impressive than it is depicted in all honesty. For opening a portal to the Punch Dimension, he has shown to have less punch than 85% of the rest of the Marvel Universe.I would think a dimension like that would have the strongest punch in the multi-verse, but someone like Spidey and Colossus shown to hit much harder.
>>153492739He has ranged punches though. That's usually worth a big tradeoff in power in combat situations. He also doesn't get tired from doing that.
>>153492649He's a mutant. The end. Quit thinking you speak for the masses. You're an autist. Know your place.
>>153492545Showing and explaining fictional science is actually the express purpose of science fiction elements in a story, dumbo
>>153492784How does he mutate? What is the mutation? What is the nature of the biologic alteration at the center of the story? You're woefully uncreative.
>>153492787They didn't explain how the time machine worked in Terminator aside from nothing dead can go through, and that was just an excuse to have them naked. Same with RoboCop, Alien and Predator. Majority can suspend their disbelief and enjoy the story. You can't because you're an autist and a geek.
>>153492784>He's a mutant. The end.So when a villain mutant mutates at him, is that a threat that he or others need to take seriously? When he mutates back, what role does he play in the mutant hero team and why?
>>153492826X-Men doesn’t have to follow Terminator. But Terminator DOES painstakingly explain and show a fictional time loop
>>153492784Quit thinking you think for the masses, retard
>>153492794The X-Men movies didn't worry much about this stuff and people enjoyed them just fine. This is what separates lorefags from real creatives. You're a storyteller telling a story to an audience, not to yourself. Autists can't not think of themselves when doing so, so they make bullshit that nobody but them wants because they can't put themselves in the shoes of others. It's why they're so selfish and entitled.
>>153492844>But Terminator DOES painstakingly explain and show a fictional time loopYou mean the plot of the movie that's "explained" by showing not telling? As in just watch the plot unfold like a regular movie?
>>153492027Isn't it a thing that he's immune to his own power which is why he can close his eyes and not just blow his eyelids open.
>>153492832>So when a villain mutant mutates at him>When he mutates backWhat does this have to do with X-Men?
>>153492481That and their whole thing was supposed to be they all had only one power (with some work arounds) rather than a slew of them like most of the other heroes at the time of their creation.
>>153492852Follow your own advice, bud.
>>153492826>They didn't explain how the time machine worked in Terminator aside from nothing dead can go through, and that was just an excuse to have them nakedIt was an excuse to not have them bring future laser weapons with them and have to rely on modern guns, though I see your point.
>>153492859>You're a storyteller telling a story to an audience>>153492649>>153492872>You mean the plot of the movie that's "explained" by showing not telling?Yes. The information is there to shape audience experience. Showing is usually preferable if it's practical to do.>>153492883>What does this have to do with X-Men?>>153492784>He's a mutant. The end.That's supposedly all you need to know about X-Men. Who are mutants, you see.
>>153492859Yet you could do an X-Men that gets into this stuff >>153492872Yes, they feature the main science fiction element, central to the story, and carry it out in such a way that we actually see and participate in its mechanics
>>153492896>no u to a no uHoly shit youre obtuse. Notice i never dad i spoke for the masses either
Wait until you read books
>>153492907>That's supposedly all you need to know about X-Men. Who are mutants, you see.Yeah, guys with powers. People know what superheroes are to understand it enough. Quit being disingenuous.
>>153492981There are superheroes with explained powers. Dont act like this is some heinous undoable idea. You know there are entire books just describing fictional science and magical mechanics, right? Like cover to cover
>>153492981>Yeah, guys with powers.Oh, so the audience needs to know about the powers for the story to work? Then we're back to >>153492649.
>I dont need to know Harry Potter has a phoenix feather in his wand! He’s just a wizard! The end! Everyone already knows what a wizard is!!!
>>153492937>Yet you could do an X-Men that gets into this stuffAnd it won't be as successful as action adventure X-Men because most people aren't nerds clamoring for all these explanations. Most people don't want to feel like they're in school.>>153493006>Oh, so the audience needs to know about the powers for the story to work?You see the powers through the visuals, dude. When they're using them. You slow?
>>153492981Dude why did they explain Ghost Rider’s penance stare is based on internal sin of the victim? It has nothing to do with anything. He kills bad guys by looking at them, thats all you need to know.
>>153493020Always the extremes. You autists really can't register nuance, huh? Always trying to get that win you can't get IRL.
>>153493026They even explain powers in the fucking X-Men movies bozo. They explain everything about Wolverine’s claws and have made multiple movies just about how he got them and how they work
>>153493041You have argued in only extremes this entire time. ‘No but if my bombastic claim doesnt apply in many cases, youre being extreme! Pick only examples that make my claim true!!!’ You just think like an idiot, man
>>153493035>Dude why did they explain Ghost Rider’s penance stare is based on internal sin of the victim?You're misunderstanding. Big diff between a basic explanation like that and an overdetailed autistic one that sounds like a boring science article. It has to be short and sweet for the audience to get. That's my point. No need to spend anymore than a minute to explain someone's powers unless we're watching them get them then and there.
>>153493026>You see the powers through the visuals, dude. When they're using them.So the audience sees how they work. Their capabilities and limitations. How allies and enemies react to them. Yes.
For example also they explain how Professor X’s power, and Cerebro, work, which is important to the function and purpose of Magneto’s helmet
>>153493046>They even explain powers in the fucking X-Men movies bozoThe X-Gene.>>153493061>You have argued in only extremes this entire timeI haven't. You misunderstood because you can't register nuance and I struck a nerve. Simple.
>>153491513Never it was the only thing that made senseA dimension of nothing but kinetic energy
>>153493079Yeah, you SHOW that. Guys like you would just exposit it like a research paper, rather than demonstrate it visually.
>>1534930781. There are entire very popular genres of fiction and comics that do have sections reading like science articles (JJBA comes to mind)2. What’s the limit to the length of a fair explanation and did you ever notice writers can do it in parts? So at the end you actually have a comprehensive understanding of the subject that was trickled to you throughout?
>>153493107Hey dummy, mechanics dont have to be explained in massive text blocks. Only you asserted that
>>153493098Ever seen a little movie called The Matrix?
>>153493107Once upon a time a very powerful being punched a dimension so hard it filled up with nothing but kinetic energyThe end
>>153491470>The Punch DimensionI don't get the problem mutants have all sorts of silly powers
>>153492875And he and Havok were immune to eachother, even though Havok shoots plasma.
>>153493127Yeah and it needed its explanation changed at the behest of the studio because they felt audiences wouldn't understand the original one.
>>153493152Shut up
>>153493141Or>Scott Summers has the X-Gene>He goes through puberty and his powers show up.>He suffers a brain energy and now he can't turn the power off ever nor control its output without a special device.>People have different genes so the powers surface differently for each person. Personality traits can also be genetic so those can be a factor as well.
>>153493111>What’s the limit to the length of a fair explanationDepends on the sort of story being told, and how much the audience likes that sort of thing. There are big creative works that are almost entirely world building and technical stuff, but they're fairly niche.
>>153493199All that energy has to come from somewhere as to obey the laws of thermodynamicsErgo a punch dimension filled with nothing but punching energy that can't be visited because you just get punched out of itIt can only be stopped with glasses because you can't punch a man with glasses
>>153493225>as to obey the laws of thermodynamicsLol. LMAO, even.
>>153493210>Depends on the sort of story being toldLike of it's an action adventure story, the explanation needs to be short, sweet and conveyed visually to get to the action and adventure quicker. If it's hard sci-fi, then go ahead and explain it scientifically. If it's the former, fuck no unless you follow it up with>in English?
>>153493160That's because there was a thing that family were immune to each others powers, though I'm not sure how well that stuck. Black Tom Cassidy and Banshee were also immune to each others powers even though they were sonic screams and heat blasts with zero correlation
>>153493225>It can only be stopped with glasses because you can't punch a man with glassesSo? Take em off
>>153493240>Like of it's an action adventure story, the explanation needs to be short, sweet and conveyed visually to get to the action and adventure quicker.But it still needs to be there for the audience to understand what's going on. AGAIN >>153492649How about, if you disagree with anything there, you quote what you disagree with before arguing against something which no one here has said?
>>153493270>But it still needs to be there for the audience to understand what's going onSo you lack reading comprehension.
>>153493268He can't the dimension won't close because his eyes are the portal but portals need to be round so when he close his eyes the portal close tooIs all basic physics like why bubbles are round
>>153493290If it's not there, you can't comprehend it by reading it. >>153493270>But it still needs to be there
>>153493316>If it's not there>>153493240>Like of it's an action adventure story, the explanation needs to be short, sweet and conveyed visually to get to the action and adventure quicker. If it's hard sci-fi, then go ahead and explain it scientifically
If he opens his eyes wide enough. Will he be able to open a portal big enough for Punch Demons to start coming out?
>>153491470>>153491853>>153491865>>153492027They should at least call it something else. Punch dimension is just sillyRay-type powers are mostly useless anyway, it's never used to its full potential, at most it serves as a utility tool or as a slight deterrent to an enemy.
>>153493384>mostly useless>utility tool
>>153493384Back then the greatest minds at marvel comics came out with the punch dimension to explain why his powers just punch things instead of heating them or cutting them like superman's laser visionAnd I love it the fans love it and is not silly at all is punch related and punches are one of the pillars of american comic books>captain america punches hitler.jpg
>>153492787Science fiction is at its best when it doesn't predict the flying car but rather the traffic jam
>>153491865It's kind of funny really.A laser might turn someone is dust, but something with enough kinetic force that can tear through a tank would be scarier.It could blow chunks off people, break their bones, blow their organs out, cut them into ribbons, or straight up turn them into blood mist.
>>153493451>A laser might turn someone is dustNot really. A low-power laser might blind someone or burn them. A high-power laser would vaporize the water in them, causing a steam explosion that itself would cause physical damage. People forget that vapor takes up a lot more volume when depicting the effects of weapons that vaporize things.
>>153493530Is to late to make cyclops have normal laser eyes
>>153493530A laser that can burn through a tank within immediate contact isn't going to have trouble turning a human into space dust. It won't even need to touch them considering how hot the thing would be.
I am more interested how ruby glasses block punch dimension punches
>>153493579The ruby's absorb the energy which includes the force
>>153493572>It won't even need to touch them considering how hot the thing would beBet they die intact first off of ionized air.
>>153493579Ruby energy is just residual ruby vibrations from the massive punch of a ruby elemental This also explains juggernaut powers
>>153493572>A laser that can burn through a tank within immediate contact isn't going to have trouble turning a human into space dust.Such a laser wouldn't turn a human into space dust, it would turn a human into a pink explosion.>It won't even need to touch them considering how hot the thing would be.Real lasers aren't glowing objects that move around at the speed of a thrown baseball. They're only visible if they interact with something that scatters the light, and if light isn't getting scattered somehow, there wouldn't be stray energy going off the sides of the beam.
Why punch beam red though?Punch beam red laser.
>>153493798Red ones go faster. It needs to be fast to be effective.
>>153491470I didn't know any kid who wanted to be cyclops. Takes effort to make eye lasers boring.
>>153493840You just have to be marvel comics in DC they rock and rule
>>153493165>it doesnt count if its not the first draft And yet there remains an incredibly iconic and beloved long exposition scene right there in the middle of the movie
Nothing is true, everything is permitted, retards
>>153494627>everything is permittedIs this really true?
What you mean to say, is you have to follow an incredibly narrow set of rules when expositing to *rubes* when operating in the incredibly particular field of *cheap pulp fiction*
>>153494638Truth doesn’t exist. Denial of permission requires truth, full permission is the natural state when unmolested. Silence expresses the idea better but we have to give the word junkies something
Who punched the hole in the punch dimension?
Gentleman and hermaphrodites of the board, I present to you - the punch-dimensional printer
Lets see, is my cabinet going to fit here? 18” tall, 12” wide, 8” deep…. 7 punches…
Cyclops’ glasses really are polarizing
Do you think he got it from laser eye surgery?
>>153494695>Truth doesn’t exist.Is this statement true?>Denial of permission requires truthNo it doesn't. The concepts are unrelated..>Silence expresses the idea better but we have to give the word junkies somethingYou seem to be making up your own definitions here.
>>1534948941. You can muster up a truth, obviously we live in worlds and languages where truth is ‘in effect’ and functionally applies, but every truth is in fact mustered up. The egg can literally talk think and act as it wants, Alice and her apparent desire for some other order be damned.2. Humpty Dumpty is never described as an egg in the source material - another assumed truth that never was
>>153494894And really plenty of people dont even speak your language, whining Humpty is incoherent is like bitching at a rattlesnake for not singing harmony.
>>153494894And furthermore Humpty has complete and full license to his words and actions, annoying to you and directly hostile as they may be, the only revocation that can occur of this infinite license, can only work of Humpty believes it himself. ‘You cant talk like that!’Wrong
>>153495136If Humpty* believes it himself
>>153491470>muhahaha it's over Cyclops you have only punch beam while I got my punch beam ring next to my Odin beam
>>153491470It was never actually called that.It was just a portal to a realm of pure energy, it was just to say that there is no heat nor electricity attached to Cyclop's eye-beams. That it's pure force, not a laser.
>>153491470Why couldn't they just give him the ability to modify his lasers so they're just kinetic energy when he wants to?
>>153491470Yep. Kino time.>>153491831That and how repulsors actually work.>>153491853It's more creative and just having him simply melt people's faces off if he wants to is too OP. Plus at some point wouldn't kinetic energy do it anyway, except it's literally pushing so hard it rips your face off? That makes sense to me.>>153491875The meat thing is dumb but I can't recall if it is actually in there. Cyclops makes more sense since eyes take in light and light coming instead out from them is better. Also retcons and selective writers are why cool shit stays and lame stuff gets thrown away. But they aren't always right. >>153491986They could just explain that his eyes can focus them in different ways and modify the energy. I don't get why faggots get so offended by the dimension idea.>>153493579Crystals diffract stuff and in general if something is the same color as the light that is hitting it, it will be absorbed. Stan took basic physics he learned in high school (this is basic stuff described by Newton) and used that to explain a lot of superpowers.
It was never canon in the first place btw it was just something a writer put into an annual.
>>153492502awesome page.
>>153491470Is the Punch Dimension supposed to be Cyttorak's domain?
>>153496218Handbook. And yeah I don't care. It should be and Brevoort needs to eat his hat.
>>153496336Not sure, but I don't think so. Sounds like something an AU would do where they are both connected to the same dimension.
>>153492481there's over 200 x-men now, its narratively quite helpful to have a range of guys who can do anything between street level or the extinction team who can take down gods.
>>153496426It'd make sense. Explains why the beams are red.
>>153491853fair enough about the dimension thing but 'optic blasts' was a competent comic move. give him a very flexible impactful weapon vs something that's just going to kill people where they stand.
>>153492165>>153492502>>153496284Smalltime. Scott has gone bigger. This is when he blasted Nimrod.
>>153497020But laser beam eyes are some of the least effective powers in comics. They should cook a enemy to death, but all they do is just launch them into a brick wall.
I thought that was one of the ridiculous yet cool powers in comics. Bro doesn't fire lasers. His eyes are a gateway to a dimension of pure kinetic force
>>153497119I really despise the constant power creep of comics
>>153497707He is just channeling optic blast energy from another universe all it matters is the amounts
>>153497707what's not to love about superman being capable of yelling anyone out of existence?
>>153491626>Then he goes off to cry in a bar while Cyclops gets up and finds the people who hurt them and gets them back Why did people ever think Wolverine is cool? Is this an age thing? Did we just not get how pathetic he was when we were kids. I've been bars. Bars like this. This lame.
>>153497119But that's just going off into space. A flashlight can do that.
>>153497119Minraud?
>>153497816Truant X-Men are 100x cooler than their Boy Scout Do-Right fucking Liberal Activist center-right brained does mind their own business obligate shit and marks and stitched-up brown noser contemporaries
>>153497912Doesn’t* mind their own business
>>153497707That panel doesn't happen.
>>153497707Power creep is my sexual role
>>153497912Oh yeah he's really cool there sulking like a bitch.
>>153497119>Mutants: Humans are wrong to fear and hate us.>Also Mutants:
So if someone got put into the punch dimension and doesn't die from being engulfed in constant kinetic energy, is your only hope of escape through Cyclops eyes?
Wasn't the old explanation he just absorbs solar energy? I remember him and Alex getting their powers that way forever ago. Why'd they need to change it to something so stupid.
>>153498716yes
>>153498735The entire last 20 years of x-men is them becoming disillusioned with integration. They made their island and it got destroyed by humans again.
>>153498796great idea. Lets see some little punch elementals rip themselves out of Cyclops' visor
>>153498901They had supervillians in it and they endlesly replicated themHumanity had every right to fear them
>>153498928that might hold more weight if orchis wasn't also run by mr sinister, at least x-men finally got rid of theirs.
>>153498901>and it got destroyed by humans again.I thought Nimrod destroyed it
>>153499093Nefarious human invention
>>153499093they built him and the stark sentinels, its not the one from the future.
>>153498965>that might hold more weight if orchis wasn't also run by mr sinisteryou mean the member of the quiet council
>>153499402In retrospective having Mr Sinister there just because he is a mutant was a bad idea
>>153499114>>153499133Don't you just love it when X-fags talk about "the humans" like they're not human themselves?There's no clearer indicator of how badly wrong those books have gone than how all the mutant villains became allies of the X-Men against "the humans".
>>153499475>>153499803Identity politics is a hell of a thing.
>>153499803X-Men really is some incoherent and politically stupid liberal-gesturing pulp. I don't even say that to shit on the idea of civil rights I'm saying no matter how you slice it X-Men presents a catastrophic racial impasse
>>153491875The Punch Dimension showed up in Ewing's Ultimates 2 because of course it did.
>>153499803what should I call humans when discussing a story about a conflict between humans and mutants retard. Should I say us when talking about a fictional setting I'm not a part of. I love it when shithead tourist look for straw they can possibly grab they smear the property like some x-men fan fucked your girlfriend once.
>>153499933They wanted to get the point across and they did all of them, they wanted to prove that an only mutants country would be a paradise and they did, they wanted to prove the world needed mutants and they didThen they wanted to prove discriminating based on your genetic material leads to Mr Sinister ruining the day and they did and that mutants need the world and they also did
>>153500043
>>153499942its not liberal its exceptionalist, krakoa as a narrative has more in common with altas shrugged.
>>153500139Pure endless concussions
>>153500178Hm maybe so. Like being colonized by local aliens, which I now notice is the definition of a mutant haha
Why doesn't Cyclops headbutt a guy into the punch dimension through his visor? You wouldn't even have to get cornea with it, if the power is any type of portal he could torture someone by pulling their finger through it
>>153500271It only goes one direction outwards
>>153500139
>It was originally stated in the first print of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe that Cyclops' eyes contain inter-dimensional apertures, releasing powerful energies from another dimension into his own via the beams. >Later accounts state that Scott's body naturally metabolizes ambient energy that is used to open and focus the apertures in his eyes. The energy of the beam itself originates from this other dimension.>This explanation was later changed for subsequent prints of the Handbook, which stated instead that Scott's body naturally metabolizes sunlight to generate his force beams>Despite the Punch Dimension making a cameo appearance in Ultimates 2 (Vol. 2) #9, it is disliked by Marvel editors and the writers aren't allowed to mention it as the source of Cyclops' beams
>>153500094>they smear the propertyIt's been doing a very good job of that on it's own for over 25 years.
>>153500410So it is now eye lasers?The newest canon sounds like Solar Beam from Pokémon.
>>153500416it was bad generally between 2013 and 2019, the krokoa shit was hit and miss, 25 years is reductionist slop.
>>153500330Even worse for the victim. 'it only goes one direction, wonder what will happen when i turn it on'
>>153500691>optic blast
>>153493167That's not a mutant power
>>153499803do you want me to call em flatscans or something?
>>153500806In anon it is
>>153500410I still think the punch dimension is Cytorraks domain.
>>153500845Because everything is Cytorrak's domain.
>>153492545X-Men (and Marvel at large) encourage real-world reactions to extraordinary events and emphasize sci-fi over fantasy compared to its competitor. Don't be surprised when people expect more sound worldbuilding.
>>153492545the problem isn't that the explain things it's that they OVER explain things. Superman gets his powers from the sun. That's a nice clean explanation and even opens up possibilities for different kinds of suns. Punch dimension is just dumb and an over explanation when X-gene summed it up nicely.
>>153493384>They should at least call it something elseThey don't actually call it the punch dimension in-universe. That's just a funny name the fans came up with for it because it doesn't actually have a name.
>>153496021>Stan took basic physics he learned in high school (this is basic stuff described by Newton) and used that to explain a lot of superpowers.It's important to remember that the Marvel universes canonically don't have a 1to1 copy of our own laws of physics. Especially ever since Franklin Richards recreated them.
>>153499803Fuck Krakoa.
>>153493798In the Marvel Universe power is red.
>>153495923Because that would open up the possibility that he can change it to whatever kind of energy he wants, which would make him way more complicated and way more broken.
The X-men were created in the 60s, when people were highly afraid of nuclear power and many stories were about how radiation created monsters and mutants. The idea is an "x-gene" comes much later.When the cartoon was produced, they specifically said in the first episode that they don't know why they are mutants and Beast jokes that maybe TV made them that way, but he seriously mentions it could have been radiation as well.Thing is, even in the 80s, after Chernobyl, people still were afraid of radiation, so it could have made much sense to make people fear them due to this reason rather than just make them a vague metaphor for bigotry.
>>153499803My fav is people wearing "Magneto was right" shirts or hoodie, as if Magneto wouldn't kill them all if he could.
Glovejobs from Rogue.
>>153507799Rogue is a whore.
>>153492955>Wait until you read booksWhat kind of books?
>>153508063Any book at a reading level above 10th grade probably
>>153508450I discovered that making them read text heavy comic pages cause the same effect
