I used to like his writing style, but after Doomsday Clock, I began to understand why Wally fans dislike him.I've never read a story by Johns that didn't have some unnecessary, forced retcon, just to make things more Silver Age-esque, but darker. He loves complaining about comics being too dark, while writing some of the most fucked up things in his own stories. His terrible metafictional commentary on New 52 Superman makes no sense if you've read Morrison or Pak's runs, and why the hell is Watchmen in the main DC Universe anyway? Who approved that? Looking back at his GL run kinda funny how based an entire storyline on some bullshit Moore made up in the 80s
who fucking cares
>>153495707He was always a fucking hack but Doomsday clock was a new level of pretentious hackery
Yes
IS THAT A PENIS
>>153495707Dr Manhattan is actually a shit character that is far too OP to ever be used and should have been left alone. And that's coming from a Sentry fan.
>>153495707>One Year Ago, The Metaverse Become Aware of My HubrisIs that not a fucked up awkward sounding sentence? Shouldn't it be like Became or Becomes?
>>153495971That's to do with Manhattan always living past, present and future at the same time.
>>153495893>Dr Manhattan is actually a shit character that is far too OP to ever be used and should have been left aloneThis is because he was wanked like crazy because of Watchmen popularity, originally he wasn't that strong.
>>153495767Shut up
>>153495987I understand but that but doesn't that still sound weird and awkward as sentence?
>>153496172I think the context helps it, but suppose YMMV.
>>153495707>why the hell is Watchmen in the main DC Universe anyway?Because companies are dumb. They tried that with the Tangent Universe. Marvel with their Ahe of Apocalypse.
>>153495707His Avengers sucked too.
>>153495767I care
>>153496009Yes he was. He could give you cancer and turn into a car
>>153496561This is pretty small scale compared to other capeshit warpers of the time.
>>153495707I like his recollections and flashbacks, I like them a lot even, is the only way to get the backstory when starting mid action like he doesIs a compromise you have to make to not being able or not wanting to tell the story in sequential order
>>153495893>Dr Manhattan is actually a shit character that is far too OPHe's actually a great character but only if he's written in a particular way. He's definitely not made for retarded superhero slap fights.
>>153495707>and why the hell is Watchmen in the main DC Universe anyway? Who approved that?guess what
>>153495707>Was Johns a hack?Nah, Johns has always been good, but he definitely can put out some stinkers here and there. I actually read Doomsday Clock just a few weeks ago, and I was actually impressed by the opening four issues—they were quite good. But that's also when Johns realized his story was losing steam, so he made like 6 filler issues about his OCs' past (that I couldn't give less of a fuck about), Dr. Manhattan doomscrolling realities, and then Johns glazing Superman.
>>153496172Metaverse is a weird kind of plural. It's like the FISH BECOME AWARE.
>>153498390nice spinehole
>>153498797Thanks, It's vintage
>>153495707>Was Johns always an hack?No
>>153500114you think this is good?
>>153500150Yes
>>153495707haven't read Doomsday Clock, but i always thought Johns was pretty good at event stories. Flashpoint was okay (cool premise, had a lot of shit going on though and you pretty much needed the tie-ins), but i thought Blackest Night and Forever Evil were really good. good premise, good stories, great moments. i think Johns' strength is in some of his characterwork during those events, honestly - like Forever Evil being a Luthor-centric story
>>153500114>Blackest NightNah
>>153496491His Avengers was fine, She-Hulkfag.
>>153500150Is only challenged by Tomasi's green lantern corps some of the best that year
>>153495707With a body like that, there's no reason to ever walk around with clothes, ever.
>>153500695Gleason's art kinda blows though.
>>153500730Is weird and over inked and I love it, some artists just draw aliens correctly
>>153500743I can agree his aliens looks great. His people...uuuuuuuuuuuuuh
>>153495707Didn’t know there were Wally fans complaining about John’s.I loved all the new rogues he created for Wally instead of just borrowing Barry’s villains.Also he made Keystone feel like a distinct city with the whole Union storyline.
>>153500662Fuck you, You've favourite character didn't get reset back to zero.
>>153496561>>153495893Manhattan couldnt even stop a couple hundred missiles even with his "reality bending" powers. The truth is that he is a really low level reality manipulator and his feats are the sort of shit even Flash pulls without reality altering powers.
>>153500810They never should have "updated" Kyle's look, lightning does not strike twice with him. Every costume past his debut look is total shit.
>>153500695>some of the best that yearLow bar.
>>153495707I recently read his GL, from Rebirth through the end of Sinestro Corps War. I don't understand the hype at all. The Gibbons Corps parts were better, but even these weren't that enjoyable. The actual event was pure contrivance and tedium.>>153500730Early Gleason was easily the best artist of that entire roster.
>>153500114Time huh? Thanks for the tip.
>>153495707>t.ESL can’t into English comicsWho cares?
>>153503384They had to after prime Kyle got drilled to death.
>>153500114jones (focusing on his writing, and not the fact that he is a convicted paedophile) > johnsalso the absolute zenith was gl: rebirth. sinestro corps war killing off ke'haan and jack t. chance and killing off kreon after just bringing him back was shit, though the story was a decent conclusion to the hal - kyle - sinestro arc
>>153495707Yes
>>153504721They set up a shitload of characters for the siniestro wars, the event was hyped because they were following an ancient Alan Moore prophecy that green lantern would be an interesting comic one day on blackest night
Johns is a perfectly fine dumb action writer, he falls apart when he tries to do something deeper or "smarter."> I began to understand why Wally fans dislike him.Johns wrote a great Wally run. Bringing back Barry wasn't his call. He was hired to do a job, and he did it.>>153500968Johns personally responded to you in his latest work.
>>153509964Now Jen is stuck with that loser Jack of Hearts. Fuck Johns, Slott & Rowell. All hacks.
>>153495707Sure
>>153500968I refuse to believe Hal Jordan spectre had any fans
>>153513281I like JMD.
>>153495707Yes, the dumbass Superboy retcon alone should've permanently evaporated his credibility as a writer.
>>153514079Go you>>153515294He was so prolific we didn't cared, superheroes felt like superheroes again and the art was glorious
>>153500810who inked this?
>>153501791That's part of why Flash is a dogshit character. Any stakes in his stories are forced or non-existent.
>>153500810Americanartists need to cool it with the lips and face lines.
>>153516654I have no clue how to find the chapter is from when they had a bar in Oa and decided to do a mural dedicated to the lost lanterns, that mural was destroyed by the way
>>153498390I think the very concept of a Watchmen crossover was retarded and I don't see how you could think any of the early issues were good.
>Seven Corps>Seven Seas>Seven Magical Lands>expanding the Shazamily >wanted to make/expand the Reverse Flash family>created a billion legacy characters and color palette swap charactersThe biggest two trick pony in comics desu
>>153518201Not particularly good tricks either.
>>153518495You will never resist a color swap, you will read it to love it or hate on it you will quote it for years Doesn't have to be a Miles Morales you can just change the color of the costume like red lantern guy gardner
>>153518201Three trick pony actually.>um ackstually Obsidian didn’t go crazy and evil, it was the shadowlands controlling him>um ackstually Brainwave Jr didn’t go crazy and evil, it was a nazi caterpillar controlling him >um ackstually Hawk didn't go crazy and evil, it was Mordru and the Lords of Chaos controlling him>um ackstually Hal Jordan didn’t go crazy and evil, it was a yellow space bug controlling himThe fact that all four of those happened in a span of like 3 years is crazy.
>>153495893Manhattan wasn't really that powerful in the original story, Doomsday Cock wanked him like crazy for no reason
The most diappointing part of that book is that the Superman Theory, which was the most interesting plot point of the story, went completely nowhere and ended up basically not mattering at all, and then was completely memoryholed by any subsequent comics. What was the point?
>>153519183>Doomsday Cock wanked him like crazy for no reasonJohns had built up Jon to be that capable to handwave how he could be responsible for the problems of each reboot.The problems DC had made but decided Jon as a stand in for Moore was responsible for.Superman then cures Jon of the very psychosis Johns had given him at the end of Doomsday Clock, so it all comes together. Sort of.
>>153519238The new Firestorm is sort of picking up after it, but not in any contemplative way.Firestorm's just turned into a psychotic dick like Jon and has to be talked down, and though unrelated, Captain Atom was having an episode like that during the power loss thing from Waller.Kind of a pattern developing here, someone should check in on Major Force.
>>153519430When I said "DC wanked him like crazy" I meant the lead-up to it when he was vaporizing niggas and getting blamed for reboots as well
>>153495707Who was more responsible for the utter diarrhea that was doomsday clock, the writers or DC? The hubris to even tread on watchmen for so little gain just boggles the mind. It's not that it's sacred but everyone would expect you to at least pretend you could hit something in the ballpark of moore if you're going to make that attempt. The utter failure was a sight but honestly attempting to weld watchmen to the DC universe in no way an intelligent choice.
>>153520123If you decide to go and make watchmen babies after moore warned you about it with a simpsons joke is your own damn faultI think Johns did an ok job but in order to elevate the comic from cashgrab to necessary they had to do the triple axel
>>153517978I came into it with an open mind, to start. I was willing to enjoy it for what it was. The first four issues setup an atmosphere, immerses you into the conflict, and there's some intriguing interactions initially. It just all quickly spirals into meaningless filler and stalling to fill out the 12-issue quota. It had potential near the start, and it could have been great if it just focused on the Watchmen characters ineracting with the DC universe at large rather than 2 or 3 issues of flashbacks and then 3 issues of Superman glaze and boring retrospection about the DC Universe and its history.
>>153520147>If you decide to go and make watchmen babies after moore warned you about it with a simpsons joke is your own damn fault>>I think Johns did an ok job but in order to elevate the comic from cashgrab to necessary they had to do the triple axelReasonable, I just cannot fathom why they bothered. Watchmen is entirely meant to be eternally self contained, there is nowhere to expand, it expends itself and it's characters purposefully. To jerry rig new versions of the characters wholesale (including manhattan who is an entirely different person in doomsday clock) will never create something interesting or coherent. I also do not like the seeming lust each attempt at a continuation has for making a Rorschach successor. Better to make a Comedian copycat, that at least is something that seems likely.
>>153520195That page when dr manhattan was contemplating superman they almost had a purpose, is like they had the key to unlock a great story from that point on but they lost it
>>153520182I guess you just have a bigger appetite for slop then, I couldn't stand Nuschach or Ozymandias being written like a retarded or the very premise requiring shitting on all of Manhattan's character development from the very outset in order to work. It's a shit story built on a foundation of sand, it never had more potential than what it was.
>>153501791he's vision and ant-man combined with we wuz kang's time traveling affinity.
>>153509161I've seen people online try to downplay the influence of Moore's GL comic "Tygers", but actually reading it, it comes up over and over again, the whole thing being centered around the prophecy from that story. The only other things Johns' GL deals with are Emerald Twilight and other character baggage.
>>153495707>I've never read a story by Johns that didn't have some unnecessary, forced retcon, just to make things more Silver Age-esque, but darker.His Aquaman run did not have anything like this.
