le real time meme instead of actually letting the stories flesh themselves out

>>153501576
>le real time meme
yea i dont know why they thought that was gonna work

The same trap as the original Ultimate universe: Started being different for the sake of being different.

>>153501432
I only read a few issues of X-Men and Wolverine. I thought Ultimate X-Men was good, but Wolverine seemed like it wasn't really doing anything that new with the actual character.

>>153501432
Nobody knows.

>>153501696
Why did that work for Absolute DC then?

>>153501432
>high sales
>excitement
>canned immediately because....?
Spider-Man and Black Panther were specifically confirmed by their writers to be taking a slow pace with their story and Hickman himself stated he thought his story would be picked up by somebody else.
USM is perhaps the most egregious offender of the cancellation because the sales could have easily propelled it to be 100+ issues like the original Bendis run. I don't know what explanation there is besides Marvel editorial being ass blasted about the marriage.
>>153501779
>but Wolverine seemedl ike it wasn't really doing anything that new with the actual character
I'm pretty sure that book existed as damage control for normies that didn't want to read about Japanese schoolgirls.

>>153501432
>>153501696
The problem with nu-Ultimate is that it failed to tap into the American cultural zeitgeist the way that Absolute DC did or how Ultimate Marvel did for the 2000s.

Remember, the Marvel ethos is "the world outside your window" and most of the classic Marvel characters' stories draw heavily from what was going on around the time of their publication. Pop culture and trends, social movements, politics and war, etc.

Nu-Ultimate overcorrects from Classic Ultimate being a product of the Bush administration and the War on Terror (with writers being jingoistic pro-America morons or angry anti-America morons) to not really being rooted in anything "real" for better or worse. It exists in a simulated hyper-reality, both figuratively and literally.

>>153504154
Absolute DC works because it takes the DC characters back to their roots of being rebellious mythic underdogs tackling supervillain tyrants and madmen except now things are set in the modern day instead of WW2 or the Cold War.

Ultimate Marvel SHOULD have the characters delve back into Marvel's various roots:

>libertarianism, objectivism, individualistic capitalism, etc.
>Gothic horror
>science fiction books, particularly ones about psychics
>pulpy fantasy
>hero pulps
>things being set in real cities and reflecting the cultures of said places
>the heroes being complex/multifaceted assholes, deliberately imperfect, and more mundane in their general selflessness and dickery

>>153501432
Hickman pulled a Hickman. Got a great idea and decided to implement that great idea. But the execution of that great idea was terrible and the conclusion for it for that great idea was even worse.

>>153504529
I fucking can't stand Hickman. He's not writing superhero fiction, he's writing conspiracy thriller sci-fi that would otherwise be acknowledged as mid at best and hardly talked about if it wasn't for his work doing capeshit.

>>153501432
Hickman being in charge

>>153501432
Nothing ever happened

>>153501432
Too slow pace. Took forever for things to happen.

Marvel editorial being butthurt over the Spidey marriage.

>>153501432
Not enough cunny.

>>153504330
It was always meant to end, Hickman was just surprised that Marvel didn't pull out another Krakoa.
Can't wait when everyone turns against the Absolute line after it loses interest

>>153501432
why kill the ultimate universe only to ""revive"" it in the first place?

>>153504572
Pay me to follow him around silently until he says "I have a great idea–" and then I blow a compressed air horn and shout WHEN DO YOU DEMONSTRATE A GREAT EXECUTION, JONATHAN

>>153501696
1610 got better because of that. Post-Ultimatum blew what came before out of the water. If Alonso wasn't retarded Hickman and Spencer would have easily kept it going another decade.

>>153504350
This speaks volumes about the failures of socialism.

>>153504350
>Nu-Ultimate overcorrects from Classic Ultimate being a product of the Bush administration and the War on Terror (with writers being jingoistic pro-America morons or angry anti-America morons) to not really being rooted in anything "real" for better or worse. It exists in a simulated hyper-reality, both figuratively and literally.
It exists for the same reason Marvel comics exists these days: To provide content for the MCU to adapt. So they did a bunch of different things that the MCU could adapt.

>>153504154
Work? Absolute is basically being carried by Batman which doesn't mean anything because Bats always sells nobody really cares about the other stories in the Absolute Universe, Supes has been an dud since it started and WW as only liked by twitter trannies. Returning to the Ultimate universe was just a bad idea since the MCU basically took and refined the elements people liked about it already

Real time meant that it was super slow

>>153501432
Didn't they purposefully sabotaged it when it started to outsell mainline stuff? In case of this new Ultimate Spider-Man outselling the mainline 616 and ending up butthurting editorial?

>>153507891
Ultimatum was so bad that no one wanted to read what came after.

>>153508532
It's definitely strange that Marvel wouldn't milk a line that was selling well. While I understand that the Spider office probably hated that the success of USM was being used as a cudgel against them by fans, the higher ups should have told them to shut the fuck up. I think Hickman and Momoko deciding to leave at the same time was the main factor, but it's insane that no one wanted to step in and take over those books.

nothing. it was all wonderful

>>153508688
Ultimatum forever ruined my perception of characters like Blob or Magneto (when hes evil)

Blob ate wasp like a fatass while magneto flooded all of manhattan (killing mutants too in the process. I still think its retarded that nightcrawler died when he should've teleported to a different spot to avoid the flood)

I know someone people nowadays (like rivals fans) glaze mmagnetobut I aint forgetting what his ultimate version did
(And the ultimate magneto doesnt have the reason of the Holocaust, the writers were retarded and removed that sympathetic aspect of his origin story yet made him more psychopathic with his actions)

Am I crazy for letting Ultimatum still live in my head rent free???
I read that garbage when I was 11

>>153501576
Yeah it's 100% this. What retard wanted that? What fucking dipshit thought it was remotely a good idea? Timeskips in stories are already annoying and they did them EVERY ISSUE.

>>153507671
>It was always meant to end
Was the entire universe supposed to end? Or just the main maker storyline? Cause I doubt the former is true since these are fucking comics and he only said that as damage control. The way other writers reacted seemed to make it clear they weren't expecting it either.

>>153509159
>Am I crazy for letting Ultimatum still live in my head rent free???
It scarred people, that's for sure.
It scarred me over how it was one big bridge dropping on literally everything for no reason.

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>>153504350
>The problem with nu-Ultimate is that it failed to tap into the American cultural zeitgeist the way that Absolute DC did or how Ultimate Marvel did for the 2000s.
What are you talking about, the Absolute line copied new Ultimate's "scruffy underdog heroes fighting to reform the corrupt system." That is the current zeitgeist. Hickman is full of himself about it. So is Camp.

>>153507671
No you stupid fuck. Hickman said he was just doing 24 issues then would hand it off to someone else. Marvel editorial interpreted that as well if Hickman's done at 24 we'll tell everyone else to wrap it up at 24 too. Hickman's surprise was because he assumed it'd continue beyond everyone's first 24 issues and Endgame whether it was the same books continuing for new stories or new books and creative teams.

>>153501432
So did everyone in that Ultimate Universe series just end up dead besides the evil Mr Fantastic dude from the original ultimate universe?

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>>153509320
All the current creative teams except Camp were leaving. They intended to launch new books to replace them, but it looks like they couldn't find any particular star team/book/idea to build the new line-up around, so they decided to end it instead of embarrass themselves with a line of book no one was going to care about.

>>153508532
Yeah. The same thing happened with DC and Absolute too, it started outselling mainline, but they embraced it.

Who'd have thought that when you simplify your comics and allow people to start at square one, that they start picking it up and reading them?

>>153510411
DC did that with the New 52 and the bump didn't last very long.

>>153501432
>what went oh so wrong here ?
For Spidey, the one-month or so between issues time jump. With its supporting cast, a rarity on modern capeshit, you want a a hangout type book. You want to spend time with the family, with Ben and Jonah. Day to day stuff, quieter moments. Not the breakneck highlights of just checking in with them quickly as time passes. Sort of squandered the set-up.

>>153509159
Funny you should mention it, but Magneto killing everyone like he did is why I fucking LOVE Ultimatium.

As someone who came to hate and despise the whole "Magneto did nothing wrong" bullshit glazing from X-Fans, Ultimatium was the bees knees watching Magneto in full on villain mode and one without the bullshit "It was a chinaman in disguise" bullshit retcon after the fact that taints it.

>>153510798
Ultimate Magneto was Osama Bin Laden from the start, Millar intentionally gave him a similar background.

>>153510450
In the end a writer always ends up coming in and ruining it by overcomplicating shit.

I genuinely think its no coincidence that things like Ultimate, New 52, Absolute, all end up successful at the start, and the drop off begins once a new writer comes in and starts making big sweeping changes.

>>153510259
>that screenshot

This is how I found out that I have been grossly overestimating Hickman's intelligence.

>>153509159
>And the ultimate magneto doesnt have the reason of the Holocaust, the writers were retarded and removed that sympathetic aspect of his origin story yet made him more psychopathic with his actions
Ultimate Magneto pretends his family were killed in a genocide as part of his recruitment speech, he pretends to be sympathetic, he pretends he has a just cause, but he's just evil and wants to kill people and rule the world.

It's sort of the most true and honest take on the character there is, and Ultimatum ending with him learning mutants aren't the natural next step in evolution, aren't the master race and aren't even a race, it's a fitting end for the character.

Somehow Ultimate Marvel kept doing racial metaphor oppression stories with mutants for more than five years after Ultimatum should've put an end to it, because that's all X-Men writers can write.

>>153501432
Is Endgame over yet?

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>>153501432
No Paul.

>>153511758
Does anyone like this guy or is it just some troll who hates the Spider-Man franchise and knows that people hate Paul in it ?

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>>153511758
>No Bizarro.
Fixed it for you.

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>>153511785
Paul has trillions and trillions of fans around the world.

Original Ultimate was just a post-9/11 edgefest when that sort of edginess was big. This Ultimate was just a messy attempt to get things adapted for the MCU.

>>153501432
Get MJ and Pete back together; They have Kids who are awesome. Then, Peter becomes Spider-Man. Proceed to barely focus on Spider Man or Peter and MJ, Richard gets a little more to do but May disappears. Gwen is Married to Harry? Ben is alive and having sex with MJs mom? What?

> Not enough spider-man
> While an interesting shake up to the supporting cast, they are largely missused.

They should have had Peter declining the power but then Richard gets bitten. Then MJ grounds him! :D

>>153511826
Spider-Man and X-Men had been going on for about a year before 9/11. They were just Now comics, as Marvel should be.

>>153510524
Ironically the erosion of Peter's supporting cast is ALSO one of the big problems with modern spidey!

People just don't want to write the normies.

>>153511758

Ultimate Spider-Man should have been its own book not bringing back the ultimate universe

>>153509320
>he only said that as damage control
For what purpose? No, seriously, for what purpose? For once, Marvel doesn't want to drag things out but for whatever reason you guys want another Ultimatum 2.0
>>153510268
No, he didn't, he thought Marvel would do that, but he was surprised when they announced they would end the Ultimate line after defeating the Maker.

>>153511785
He's a Polish pedophile. He can't even read English.

>>153508688
>Ultimatum was so bad that no one wanted to read what came after.
People say this not realizing the universe not only kept going for another six years but had two entire crossover events with 616. One of which was the universe's finale that used 1610's best villain.

>>153515717
It wasn't "no one" but sales plummeted and never recovered despite multiple attempts to bring them up again They put Hickman on it and then yanked him off mid story-arc because the sales were so disappointing, they weren't covering the rates he was getting from the exclusive contract he had signed with them.

>>153515780
I already addressed this.
>>153507891
>If Alonso wasn't retarded Hickman and Spencer would have easily kept it going another decade.
Alonso decided the best time to relaunch 1610 was during The New 52.

>>153515717
so?

>>153511171
Not a commie but he's right

>>153501432
>Ultimate Wolverine
A bunch of misery porn shit.

>>153501432
>real-time month-to-month
>editorial obviously seething over how well Ultimate was doing

>>153516255
Ultimate Wolverine was bad, but recently Liefeld talked to a retailer he knew who said sales were so bad that there was more interest in Ultimate Wolverine than mainline Wolverine, and that customers kept asking him when the next X-Men relaunch would be.

>>153501432
nothing desu. marywhorefags live on seething mode.

>>153517837
But you're seething right now.

>>153517837
>marywhoref

There's only one Ultimate line and it ended in Secret Wars

What's with this "marywhorefags" nonsense?

>>153511541
That's the thing though, he isn't right. Oppressive systems don't get overthrown by "the people," only weak systems do. Oppressive systems require outside interlocutors to dismantle.

>>153510298
Maker, Miles, Bombshell and her mother crossed over and that's it

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>>153511785
PAUL IS

>>153511828
This but have May get bitten instead.

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>>153517957
>>153519393
knotted

With how Cletus and Carnage have been treated as so far in the comics, I wish Sony is more protective with them.

>>153521170
delete this