Talk about everything magic in DC Comics. Gods, demons, sorcerers, objects, and locations, let's explore them all. Who/what are your favorites? Let's dive into a world beyond mortal comprehension. Characters/Beings that come to mind are:>Zatanna>Doctor Fate>John Constantine>Blue Devil>Detective Chimp>Madame Xanadu >Nightmare Nurse>Swamp Thing>Gentleman Ghost>Felix Faust>Doctor Occult>Circe>Hecate >Upside-Down Man>Wotan>Etrigan>The Demons Three>Shining Knight>Klarion The Witch Boy>The Spectre>Papa Midnite>Solomon Grundy>The Enchantress>Santa Claus>Baron Winters>Neron>Trigon>Raven>Shazam
>>153520459Trying to get more into Enchantress. Anyone got any good recs other than just SS stuff? My favorite stuff with her is when she's really just a downright bastard who gets off to chaos and misery + the witch look is the best imo, so I'm straying away from anything New 52 and later.
Someone post your top recs for DC magic books
Trying to remember all the magical factions that exist in DC. There's The Endless, The Lords of Order & Chaos, the many legions of Hell and their respective circles, you got Merlin's crew, The Council of Eternity led by The Wizard, Shadowpact, and the JLD. Also the OP forgot The Phantom Stranger.Magic is basically alive, infinite possibility where reality is clay to those who have the knowledge to harness it and something worth sacrificing in exchange for what they are trying to do. And since we're on the subject, might as well talk about the new thing; Zatanna being crowned "Prime Magus". Thoth (Egyptian God), Hecate (Greek God), and The Upside-Down Man (The chaotic magic personified) were all at one point Prime Magus. Does that mean Zatanna is currently a goddess, or does the office make her a prisoner of primordial forces/rules?
>>153520459Has Promethea been used in DC much?
>>153520536Smoking is bad for your health y'know...
>>153520624is there anything good in DC magic from the N52
>>153522897So is dealing with anon who believes in magic
An event completely lost to time, it was centered on WW so I guess that explains why nobody gave a shit
What a great thread.
>>153520768Aside from collected editions to milk? No. She was a one and done Alan Moore OC.
>>153520459Magic in DC seems more chaotic and fun.
>>153526441It is. Marvel magic is done so boring, it's crazy. Though, DC has had its down moments as well.
>>153520459When did Zatanna become DC sorcerer supreme anyway? Just saw that in last weeks book.
>>153520739She was always portrayed as significantly more powerful than every other magic character in print. Even when DC kept trying to say other characters like Fate and Shazam were higher on the magic ladder. Zatanna always had way better showings of power with almost no effort put into them, she can make any event she wants happen no matter the scale like a Bewitched/Sabrina character. While everyone else seems to follow more DnD rules.
>>153526628Yeah, why the fuck is Doctor Fate always jobbing? He and The Spectre just seem to exist to get their ass beat and say cool shit with no way to back it up. I don't want to be that guy either, but that's why I thought Gojo was so cool because he was the good guy who talked mad shit and could solo pretty much anyone.
Why do they always shit on him? Is he too op
>>153524211Phantom Stranger.
>>153526702Do you want to know how ridiculous you sound? The Spectre and Dr. Fate both have had more solo ongoing issues than Zatanna. And I don't even have to count only comics, from the 80s till now they have had more ongoings than her. They show up to job in shitty events because they're treated as stronger and they're men. They both had plenty if time to shine in actually good comics.
>>153526934Yes.Being broken neccessitates being shit on or being used as a measuring stick.
>>153526628That does seem to be kind of an issue with the magic users in DC. They all seem to come from very different backgrounds with wildly different rules attached to how magic works in general, not just how magic works for them.>Zatannah magic works like a sitcom like Bewitched, I Dream of Genie or Sabrina the Teenage Witch where they blink or wiggle a nose and absolutely any outcome can happen. No sense of scale or cost ever really comes up, they just do whatever as much as they want. >Dr Fate, Phantom Stranger, Shazam, Enchantress, Jason Blood, Faust and Circe work on RPG rules where specific encantations have to be said, wands, tools, or precise gestures need to be done as well, and there is a limit to how many times they can use magic in a day. >John Constantine, Tim Hunter, follow horror movie rules where magic is only demon/outsider corruption and every single spell cast has some ironic cost like all one's teeth, their sense of humor, childhood memories, and consistently using magic just ruins someone until it kills them or damages reality.There is some serious inconsistencies in the different magic books that they might as well not be in the same universe at all.
>>153520768>>153525943Wasn't she in Orlando's JLA?
>>153527006>Just look at books that were published 40-50 years ago! He was cool back then!Do you have any idea what the hell you are saying?He's been a useless jobber for almost half a century. That is around half of the characters existence has been a useless jobber. with that amount of time it's not just a matter of >only in a few recent booksit's 40+ years of books.
>>153527006Doctor Fate and The Spectre haven't had relevant solo series in over 30 years or more. Do you know how stupid you sound?
>>153527186Easily half of the arguments about media literacy are kind of ruined by a large number of people that still want to believe that 1996 was just a few years ago.
>>153526589Seven soldiers
>>153527160DnD rulesZatanna has magic bloodlineOthers have divine gifted magicConstantine is a humsn who has to get his hands dirty to gain power.Yimothy hunter is all of the above except he went full constantine withouy the street snarts to know he was being conned by demons.
>>153527160Doesn't help that Tim Hunter and Constantine were written by horror fans who actually wish the rest of the setting followed their version. They liked how magic was all demons looking to devour all souls and shit like Zatanna making flowers appear by saying flower backwards was stupid shit that never should have appeared in print.
>>153527201This is how we ended up with a 83 year old Indiana Jones in sequels. Too damn many old guys in positions assuming Last Crusade just came out a few years ago.
Justice League Dark sucks but the original premise should be reused (and I still loathe the name)>Madame Xanadu in the House of Mystery directs other magical characters to solve problems
>>153527044Then how come Doctor Strange can dick around as Sorcerer Supreme? He's pretty OP, it's just his writers are actually smart and make magic fickle and his foes cunning.
>>153527294Because he got a decent solo movie
>>153527294He also represents the Squishy Mage concept pretty well. He is capable of throwing down with high level cosmic abstracts in space. But he can also get his ass handed to him by a strong guy that gets the drop on him and punches him before he can get any defenses together. Hobgoblin has kicked Strange's ass before because Hobby's reliable superpowers are more useful in a spur of the moment fight than someone who needs to concentrate, make an incantation and some gestures to start doing things. Strange has repeatedly been shut down by guys that simply punch him.
>>153520459>ShazamThat's Captain Marvel for you.
>>153527189What does relevant mean? Zatanna never had a relevant run in her life, let alone a long one.
>>153527294>his writers are actually smartThis must be a joke.
>>153527912
Why are there so few practitioners of the White Arts? It's incredibly helpful and life-saving!
>>153528067That's what the White Lanterns are for, anon.
Does Nekron count as a magical entity? He is a primordial force that is beyond our mortal comprehension that has necromantic abilities.
>>153528155Nah, he's cosmic.
>Born on a Monday>Christened on Tuesday>Married on Wednesday>Took ill on Thursday>Grew worse on Friday>Died on Saturday>Buried in SundayThat was the end of Solomon Grundy.
>>153528402*Buried on SundayI wish we could edit posts.
>>153528090They're cosmic, not magical.
>>153527160So you're a complete fucking moron that doesn't know shit. Got it!Kill yourself.
>>153528067No one cares about the exploits of a healer. They don't get into cool epic fights. >>153528090Blue Lanterns are way more active and do more. White Lantern is just treated like a Super Saiyan powerrup these days.
>>153528155>>153528206In DC the big guys at the top of existence are typically magic based. Spectre, New Gods, Imps, Lords of Order/Chaos, Endless, they are all magic based.
>>153520459Fix him (as in make him worse :D )
We need more classic-looking witches up in this bitch.
>>153529083>In DC the big guys at the top of existence are typically magic based.I thought so, especially since Nekron can hard counter The Spectre and his abilities.
>>153520459Is there a magic user who uses his magically imbued fists to fight?
>>153529083And that's the weird thing. Is Spectre really mostly magical? Cosmic? Idfk
>>153527294>He's pretty OPI haven't checked Marvel in years, but he was significantly nerfed after Jason Aaron took over his comics IIRC, mostly the whole "magic has a price" seems to affect only him, and even once Aaron left some writers kept it. I haven't checked since Clea temporarily took over as Sorcerer Supreme though, so maybe it got better?>>153527495>Hobgoblin has kicked Strange's ass before because Hobby's reliable superpowers are more useful in a spur of the moment fight than someone who needs to concentrate, make an incantation and some gestures to start doing things. When did that happen? I only remember demonic powered Macendale fighting him, but he didn't really kick Strange's ass. Pic related is the only time he even managed to get close to Strange.
>>153526934>>153527044>>153527294>>153529841Did Kent Nelson actually have to learn magic, or is it all Nabu? Also the big difference between Fate and Strange (or Zatanna since she's local and now a magic authority) is that Fate is a magic bureaucrat tied up with The Lords of Order. The Lords of Order are just a collection of powerful sorcerers that went the extra mile over The Council of Eternity, becoming beings of pure spiritual energy bound by bullshit rules of "Balance" to counter their neighbors, the Lords of Chaos. And one could argue that Nabu doesn't really learn any new magic. Then there's the issue of varying writers debating how much of the personality that is Doctor Fate is Nabu and the host. Also I don't know anything about the new kid, is he alright or a shit legacy?
>>153527533Man, I REALLY hope this sticks.
>>153520459zatanna comics should be fun books , creativity drawings but specially magic done in creative waysconstantine comics need to be more crude , show the dangers of magic and how can effect people
>>153530596I appreciate Mary getting more to do. They benched the rest of the Shazamily, right? Probably for the best, I wasn't a fan of Freddy, and they didn't even bother hero naming Darla, Pedro, or whatshisname. We just calling Billy Captain Marvel again with no explanation, or did I miss that?>>153530679Jamal Campbell is doing good things with Zee. Her spells usually center around stage magician themes, which is fun and unique.
So ive always liked Zatannas designs, but ive never read any of her stuff. Where should I start and where should I keep reading after?
>>153530853>Zatanna by Paul Dini>Seven Soldiers of Victory>Zatanna by Jamal Campbell (The mini that came before the current one)>Zatanna/Black Canary Bloodspell
>>153529094Erase everything non-Vertigo with him in it
>>153530580Pretty sure the majority of Nelson's ability comes from his chromed dome. I think he retains the knowledge, but he just can't cast any spells.
>>153530915Thank you anon:)
>>153529094>>153530947It's okay to have John cast spells and reluctantly associate with the Justice League (even though both sides can't stand each other), but the fundamental main draw of Constantine is his cons.
>>153530955>but he just can't cast any spells.So he's not homo magi.
>>153520459What's stopping the average DC civilian from learning magic? It seems pretty accessible for the average person to attempt to learn. Sure you could be cursed but /x/ in the DC universe should have plenty of threads for entry level magicians
>>153531209Bruh, I had to look that shit up. According to the texts, no, he's not. So it's all the Dome of Fate.
>>153530703>They benched the rest of the Shazamily, right?Yeah, currently the only ones with powers are the main 3, Billy, Mary, and Freddy.I still think they could've made Darla, Pedro, and Eugene work, they were meant to be more specialized versions of the classic Lieutenant Marvels, but they never bothered to give them names or more stories, it's lame. I would've had stories where Billy has some adventures with each of them and they explore their unique abilities and such, oh well.I wish Billy got more to do in general, it's a shame that he's not more involved in magic stories, considering he's the Champion of Magic, he's literally magic Superman, he should be more involved.>We just calling Billy Captain Marvel again with no explanation, or did I miss that?Pretty much, Waid is the kind of ultra boomer who would rather die than call Billy Shazam, so he started calling him "Captain" in his book, and that stuck for a while, but it seems that now he convinced someone at DC to straight up call him Captain Marvel again. Someone suggested this is because DC is giving up on making Billy a marketable character, so they don't care if he goes by Captain Marvel again.I also wonder if this means Freddy is now called Commander Marvel, since he was going by "Commander" last we saw him.
>>153531346Two big factors: bloodline and state of mind. There are lineages that are more "attuned" to magic than others. They're called "Homo Magi". The state of mind part is also crucial, arguably more important. There was a recent Moon Knight issue with a bad guy that put it into good perspective, and its accepting that magic doesn't make sense. It's the acknowledgement of calling on forces bigger than yourself, relinquishing control to take control of a situation, and often times sacrificing something to get the results you want like some sort of Fullmetal Alchemist equivalent exchange. Batman was once a student under Giovanni Zatara, Zatanna's father, and all Bruce was able to pick up was the art of escapism. He simply did not have the mind to learn magic given his core psychological hangups and personality
You'd think more magical characters would care more about The Rock of Eternity than just The Wizard and Captain Marvel. Its the exact center of creation and the font of all magic
>>153527294Tell me how I know you haven’t read a single Dr. strange comic from the last 25 years.
>>153530947You'd erase Delano's run.
>>153529094Make him a square jawed hero.A generic token white guy in a cape and tights
>>153529094Force Ellis to write him
Both of the DC Silent Knight specials were fun, and magic heavy. Santa Claus is a canonical and current Justice League member
So what's Khalid's deal? Wasn't he a New 52 addition, and the new Dr Fate at the time?
>>153530955But they’ve shown him casting spells without the helmet. The helmet amplifies them and allows spells he can’t cast to be knowable
>>153533144He's just some diversity hire. Fuck him. Also, last I checked, he's just chilling at the Tower of Fate doing fuck all. >>153533340Pics or it didn't happen.
>>153533352The Superman animated series. Brave and the Bold
>>153533427Makes sense so Nelson can use spells, he is normally depowered without the helmet like billy batsonThe other who can use spells is jason blood
>>153533427So just in cartoons and not in canon. lmao
>>153533427Nelson has no magic ability of his own in canon. Hes just the latest host/prisoner of the helmet that is using to him do its will.
Kent Nelson's secret origin was being saved from a pyramid death trap by Nabu who teaches him the occult till he reached adulthood.
>>153533546That's #24 of the second volume of secret origins with the story written by Roy Thomas.
New to comics. I tried reading Jack Kirby's The Demon (and unrelated but all of New Gods) I LOVE his art and character designs so much but I have a hard time getting into his writing for some reason. Does anyone have any suggestions on anything with Etrigan in it? Did he do any other magical stuff in DC?Also picking shit at random to try to get into comics is great because I ended up reading Green Lantern Tangent and I love her. Green Lantern Dark as a sequel to that was pretty good too. I had no idea if even had a modern day sequel when I picked it. The vignette style storytelling was really unique and it kind I'd abandons that which sucks though.
>>153533714 I love her design so much. Was Alan Scott a magic hero or does he count as cosmic/space still because glowing space rock?
Need Nightmare Moon Knight builds
>>153533756New goth depressed drunk girl is alright too. But I dont have much to compare to yet. I grew up with the cartoons though so I'm not that ignorant and always loved Dr Fate in JLU for some reason.
Newfag still rambling here I also loved this comic so much. I need to read more Shazam too if anyone has suggestions but this is it so far. Alex Ross art just gets me especially in moments like this.
>>153533714> Does anyone have any suggestions on anything with Etrigan in it? You're in luck, Etrigan and Jason Blood has an excellent 4 issue miniseries by Matt Wagner that's pretty dark and gothic in tone.There's also a 58-issue run from the 90s where the majority is written by Alan Grant with the last leg of the title.
>>153533880*last leg of the title written by Garth Ennis
>>153533872A mustread would be the power of shazam by Jerry Ordway.
>>153533789Just build the one where he flies all the time and does damage. gg ez
>>153533457>>153533470>>153533514And this doesn’t count?
>>153533915>>153533880Thanks I'll check them out.
>>153533930No, obviously
>>153534239Why not? He’s not using powerful stuff just basic shit like floating
>>153534239They should learn spells to use when they are depowered like jason blood doesMakes sense in his case because he is from before the age of science
I hate to say it, but DC has been dropping the ball with Doctor Fate the past couple years. He needs an actual solo
>>153534564And not with his shitjeet assistant larping as him.
>>153530580It's a recent thing that any new Fate has to also learn how to use magic without the helmet.
>>153531209The homo magi thing is annoying since no two writers will agree if someone has to be one to use magic or not. The rules are constantly being contradicted.
>>153534616So is it Nabu at the wheel, the user, or do they meld into a new personality? >>153534631It means that you have a natural affinity to use magic. Someone not of the homo magi bloodline may find it more difficult to channel
Magic should be accessible, but to actually do things above parlor tricks, you need wit, will, and a dash of a good bloodline.
>>153529094Retcon mainline DC constantine into being his demon copy that he sent to hell. The real constantine is stuck in his horrifying purgatory in that bar. Pull some of the dceu cartoon storybeats, it was pretty good.Have him kill king shark as a final fuck you to editorial. Make him being a goldstar hunter a canon thing. Start by having him show up in one of batwomans misbegotten magic gotham stories and end with them in bed.
>>153531346Apparently if someone is not a homo-magi then they can only at best be a fairly mediocre magician after a lot of studying and practice. They might be able to do some interesting tricks or dedicate themselves to one element and use that. but they will never be on the level of Zatanna or The Wizard who can twirl fingers and do anything they please like a superpower. But it does open the door to being able to commune with outsiders and demons if one wants to bargain for more power. The real battier to learning is finding a source of info to learn from like an actual book of magic or someone willing to teach it. >>153534631>>153534656it's the difference between someone who can maybe be a somewhat clairvoyant or astral project, and someone who can fly, conjure fire, breathe in space, and shut off Superman's powers just by snapping fingers.
>>153534656No, not unless Nabu wants to take over the body for some reason like there is a serious threat or he wants someone to die now. In the 40s it was Nabu 100% taking over the body and it was his now. The original owner effectively died. 60s it was more like Thor or Captain Marvel, the wearer turned into Nabu the hero with a slightly altered personality. 2000's and after it's more like the wearer has access to Nabu's memories and knowledge while Nabu just sort of supervises the situation. This is when all wearers were required to learn magic too so they have an idea what they are doing and can do things smoothly.
>"G-g-guys, can I join you? Things over in Marvel aren't going so well..."How would DC treat her? What changes would happen?
>>153533756The magic space rock consists of the magic a demon empire used to conquer a galaxy. The Guardians compressed it into a green rock and sent it into space. It's an insane amount of depraved demonic energy that Alan just happens to have wrangled into working for him. It tends to kill anyone else that tries to use it.
Thoughts on Doctor Strange Fate?
>>153533144>>153533340In John's JSA it had Khalid was being forced to stay in some dimension learning magic before he was worthy enough to use the helmet and be the next Fate. The shadowy hooded guys say all Fates had to do that.
>>153534810His penis and balls are missing.
>>153534631>>153534710But isn't only Zatanna's mother a homo magic? Because Zatara is a pretty decent magician of his own.
>>153534760The last time she used magic in DC she was so ocer charged she became a serious threat. I'm thinking she will be like the goddess queen blossom that was popular around here. A naked half sane omnipotent giddess wreathed in crimson magic. Usurping the chaos lord. The lady of chaos. A terrible active goddess and real threat to nobu. PS.Where does Circe rate. Shes conpletely wasted on WW.
>>153534855Both of her parents are powerful homo magi sorcerers.
Homo magi? More like queer maggots!
>>153534938Circe should be pretty powerful considering is a greek age witchAs powerful as zatanna even
>>153535176I think they should pull a Thanos/DOOM and make her a serious League and world level threat. Zatanna needs an arch and the ww offices arent doing anything with her.
>>153520459Tala was so cute and hot in BOM
>>153535188>Zatanna needs an archShe's got Allura
>>153535188Realistically, Circe is already that, she was behind that one event that no one really remembers.Sucks that they're still sticking with her horrible Rebirth design, wish they would bring her back to her Post-Crisis look already and use her more, but against Wonder Woman, it's personal with her.If Zatanna is going to get an arch of her own, it should be original, not stolen/recycled from someone else.
>>153535188>Zatanna needs an archwhat is this, a venture bros bit?
>>153531491Giving up on Billy would be the dumbest shit ever considering he’s the main character and not Captain Marvel
>>153533872Just stick to the golden age stuff. Nothing DC produced has or ever will be as good as that
>>153533872The Multiversity: Thunderworld Adventures, Superman/Shazam: First Thunder and Shazam!: The Monster Society of Evil are all pretty good, IMO.
>>153526467Marvel doesn’t really do magic titles outside of Dr. Strange and now there’s Orlando’s Wanda comics
I’m sick and tired of DC doing “MAGIC HAS CHANGED!!!” gimmick practically every single time they do another magic related title. How about you just wrote interesting stories dealing with magic shit?
>>153527160Magic having different rules depending on the user is fine. What you need is certain consistency on their power levels and capabilities so that it isn’t pure asspull because magic is too much of plot device talent otherwise.
>>153530580It’s pretty consistent that Nabu’s helmet does all the heavy lifting by being a power booster and also provides the necessary knowledge to do all kinds of magic but the user can and should learn magic on their own so that they’re not useless whenever they lose the helmet, which they tend to always do.
>>153530703The modern Marvel family was the best thing to have happened with the IP in decades and it’s infuriating how they always keep going back to the “let’s just depower” well. Like, if you don’t want the entire family to show up, it’s fine to have just Cap or Mary or whomever show up. Just say Darla is grounded unless it’s a real emergency or they’re sick and it’s unwise to change or whatever the fuck.
>>153536435The other kids suck and I hope they disappear forever
>>153536576Nah they’re fun and add good dynamic with Billy on and off superheroice by providing him a decent supporting cast
