Is there an archive of /co/ reaction to OMD when it was first released? i really want to read it
>>153529779I don't think anything that old survived.
>>153529779I'll give you the sparknotes version:WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
>>153529779I found this.https://old.sage.moe/co/thread/2746167/#2746167
>>153529851Thanks anon
https://old.sage.moe/co/thread/2397367/#2397690
Also this Nuzlocke oneshot. NSFW
>>153530056>”I think of it this way, the faster they get rid of MJ the faster JMS is off Spider-man and we get competant writers like Dan Slott.”holy fuck it was a different time
>>153530056>And somewhere down the line you know this will get undone, all it will take is a EiC who fondly remembers their married years, the same way JQ looks fondly on Parker's single years.It's been almost 20 years, but i still hope that happens someday
>>153530228Not happening. Look how much attention Paul got. Deliberately prodding the wound is more profitable than fixing it.
>>153530082>not paul or miles at the endwasted opportunity
>>153530133I wonder if that might've been Slott who posted that
>>153531010It probably was.
>>153530133Now we know they're both dogshit, at least.
>>153529800You probably suck a lot if dicks.>>153530278>profitiableLol you still believe this?
>>153531010Slobb made Human Torch/Spiderman and later did no ways to die, spiderisland and ends of earth.Along with Kelly I can understand being the less hated BND writers.I also think the point of no return is more the moment Wacker leave the duties and Lowe became the editor.No writers can release a good comic edited by him(No, Spencer comics were crap too, and his Captain America also was shit)
>>153531010>>153531115>We have sales numbers on this thing yet.>And god, we were right, even Slott can't save this bullshit.Slott would never say that not even to damage control, him and Waid shilled the sales a lotProbably some she-hulk fan that liked him
I remember in some forum (could have been superherohype, idk) around the time BND came out, one user said something along the lines of "if this run fails after years of asking for Slott to write Spider-man, Marvel will use this to say 'see, the fans don't know what they want'". So maybe some fans was not disliked back then so much as he is today?
Sucks that most of early /co/ is lost media.
>>153530133I mean just go back and look at the storytimes for the first two issues of Beyond and you'll see people hoping that Wells gets the book and praising that everyone is finally in character. I know because I was one of themA lot can happen in a short amount of time
>>153530133>>153531010Despite what most /co/ people will have you believe, Slott in the 2000s was popular with the hardcore comic fans because he himself came off as a hardcore comic fan instead of being Bendis or Hollywood guys and his comics during that decade are generally fine (as much as modern /co/ hates his She-Hulk, the hardcore fans at the time liked it). It was oly when he got on ASM that a lot of his worst tendencies, laziness and arrogance emerged which damaged his reputation a lot.>>153531540Wells was also a writer who was generally held in high regard prior to taking over Spider-Man. Hell, the Ant-Man mini he did right before that was actually really good. I think there's something about Spider-Man, and the X-Men too, that tends to ruin a lot of writers. There's the pressure of dealing with such a big character, writers I think get too in their heads about needing to rock the boat, and then both Spidey and the X-Men have insanely dedicated, loud and opinionated fans which will lead to pushback and antagonism between writer and fan. Terrible editors don't help anything either.I think it was Fraction after his run who basically said his advice to anyone who wanted to write the X-Men was "don't do it" or something along those lines.
>>153531735Ant-Man and Hellions were definitely what I was thinking of when I wanted him taking over. It helped him a lot that he was contrasted alongside Ahmed and Thompson as well.The warning signs were there though, Wells was the one who wrote Shed
>>153529779no need for archive, marywhorefags shit themselves on every thread until now
>>153531884Die in a hole you faggot.
>>153531735The problem is Slott has gotten caught using sockpuppet accounts in the past, and it's easy to post anonymously here, so the possibility some posts are him can't be discounted.
>>153531735>I think there's something about Spider-Man, and the X-Men too, that tends to ruin a lot of writers. There's the pressure of dealing with such a big character, writers I think get too in their heads about needing to rock the boat, and then both Spidey and the X-Men have insanely dedicated, loud and opinionated fans which will lead to pushback and antagonism between writer and fan. Terrible editors don't help anything either.I really think it’s the editors and how big of britches the incoming writers have. Like you’re not gonna have some pissant Marvel editor telling JMS, Grant Morrison, or Joss Whedon what to write but a Dan Slott or a Zeb Wells are absolutely gonna get steam rolled by editorial. Like nothing prior to Wells’ Amazing run indicated he’d be THAT bad on Amazing and I really think it was editorial telling him “you need to do something that’s going to break up Peter and Mary Jane and make fans hate Mary Jane” and “do away with Ben Reilly, he’s useless”
>>153532734That’s true but Slott was a well liked writer in comic circles prior to him being an asshole on Twitter. I can’t speak for /co/ ‘cause I didn’t start coming here till 2008 but everywhere I was seeing was hoping Slott was taking over from JMS on Amazing. Nowadays I wouldn’t piss on Slott if he was on fire but during the BND era I liked his issues fine, it wasn’t until his solo run on Amazing I started to sour on him and Superior was the point I actively hoped he’d die.
>>153531735>I think there's something about Spider-Man, and the X-Men too, that tends to ruin a lot of writers. There's the pressure of dealing with such a big character, writers I think get too in their heads about needing to rock the boat, and then both Spidey and the X-Men have insanely dedicated, loud and opinionated fans which will lead to pushback and antagonism between writer and fan. Terrible editors don't help anything either.I think it's primarily an editorial problemYes, there are gonna be deranged fans and annoying fans but when you know that editorial calls the shots and there have been rumors of editorial dictating what story direction to go in and the writers having to say something is their idea instead of editorial or having to defend them, then the question is, is why people are saying they don't want to write X-Men and Spider-Man because of fans/pressure the only reason, or is it being diplomatic because they don't want to say "editorial sucks and is willing to throw freelancers to the wolves (aka fans)?"
>>153532904Also if Slott and other creators post anonymously here and elsewhere, what's to say Marvel editors can't do the same?
>>153532823With ASM the problem is that Lowe generally seems to be a pushover for writers. There's the story of how how Wacker had to keep shooting down Slott's attempts to pitch Clone Conspiracy while Lowe rolled over and let him do it with no resistance. The only time he seems to get involved is when a writer is doing something he specifically doesn't want like Spencer trying to undo or minimize OMD.
>>153534235>There's the story of how how Wacker had to keep shooting down Slott's attempts to pitch Clone ConspiracyI would like to hear this story please. I believe you I just like reading anything with Slott getting shit on
>>153534235I always chalked that up to Lowe not giving a shit about what Slott does with Ben Reilly
>>153529851Oh man I wanted to post it>>153530133>people are glad that Hickman will write Spider-Man >now the /co/nsensus is that the new USM was underwhelming Time is a flat circle
>>153534549Tee bee eff his Ultimate Spider-Man was a bit underwhelming, the real time gimmick hurt the series the further it went and the end was kinda was meh. Still though better than anything that’s come out of Amazing in years.
>>153534355It's just what I said. Stephen Wacker was the Spider-Man editor from the start of BND until partway through Superior and during that time Slott would repeatedly pitch Clone Conspiracy and get told no. Wacker then got moved over to Marvel's animation division and was replaced by Lowe. Slott pitched Clone Conspiracy to him and Lowe immediately approved it.
>>153534613Oh. You made it sound more interesting than that.
>>153530056Like reading a time capsule
>>153529851>>153530056Do you have anything for issue #600?
>>153529779Marywh0reShitters are still around, just watch them on the reg spider-man threads and laugh
I grew up on Clone Saga. I am very powerful. Yet even I cannot be assed to read any post OMD Spider-Man. It just doesn't feel real to me.
>>153534650It's interesting more in that it shows what a difference a good editor can make. Wacker could be an asshole but his record speaks for itself. The Spider books could have been way worse coming out of OMD but instead BND was mostly fine and I prefer a lot of it to JMS and Mackie/Byrne. From his overseeing that corner we got Waid's Daredevil and Yost's Scarlet Spider and Remender's Venom. Prior to Marvel he was the editor for Johns' JSA and 52. He mostly did a good job of tard wrangling Slott and as soon as he leaves and is replaced by Lowe things go to shit because Lowe does not have the spine to tell writers "No, that's stupid." Only with Spencer did he go out of his way to interfere and that's because Spencer wanted to undo OMD. Lowe fucking sucks and Marvel needs real editors again is the point. Hell, Wacker's not doing shit. Fire Cebulski and bring him in aw EiC.
>>153531735>. I think there's something about Spider-Man, and the X-Men too, that tends to ruin a lot of writers.Wells wrote a great Spider-Man in the 00s. What age, a broken marriage, and Nick Lowe editing does to a guy.
>>153536754Its amazing to me the effort Marvel has put into making MJ a detestable character and then still expecting her to sell books.
>>153536754>Reads post OMD Spider-manI am so sorry, for you.I hope you get the help you need someday, anon. I want you to be well and happy.
>>153531506That was Slott, he's been lurking /co/ for yearsYOU'RE A TURGID BALL OF CHOLESTEROL AND GOING TO DIE ALONE DAN
Test.
OP you're pathetic
>>153541112What did i do?
>>153541176Post a bread on 4chan's /co/ board in regards to a previous discussion about the most controversial decision in Spider-Man comics specifically meant for talking about comic books (for shame)
>>153530133He's right
>>153542827hey dan!
>>153542827Nope.>>153537122Liking Slott over JMS is shit taste if I've ever seen it.>>153536811I think Wacker is just one of those anti-clone saga fags who didn't want to touch it while Slott wanted a new source of seethe so he could get his sales up. Too bad for him, he got raped by everyone hating him and his run probably lost more momentum.
>>153542913>Liking Slott over JMS is shit taste if I've ever seen it.JMS' run is awful and introduced a ton of absolutely stupid shit.
>>153543203a lot of that stupid shit was editorial meddling what he got to write was decent compared to the previous years of garbage
>>153529779Someone might want to post stuff from the Boxleitner Livejournal page. Lots of good salt there
>people are acting like wacker was good nowHow disgusting.
>>153543203Oh look another faggot who doesn't bother to go any deeper and is obviously going to go the "totems aren't heckin' science?!? Wtf? BREVOORT-NIGGERMAN SAVE MEE!!!!"Without considering all of the prior history Peter has with magic, battling the metaphorical spider to save his humanity, and how well JMS managed to hedge the effects his introduction of totems would have into the mythos/lore.
>>153529779Here you go: https://old.sage.moe/co/search/text/%22One%20More%20Day%22/order/asc/
>>153530228It's a good example to pull every time something horrible happens and the: "It will get retconned within a year!" people come out to quell outrage.
>>153544053we were so innocent
>>153543557Sins Past would have been even dumber without the meddling.>>153543813It made Spider-Man worse overall, as additional baggage tends to do to a character.
>>153544278>Sins Past would have been even dumber without the meddling.Secret children isn't a new concept. Mantlo wanted to do that in the 80's and Shooter shot him down. Norman turning Peter's children against him because, in his eye, he killed Harry, has narrative and thematic purpose and weight.
>>153544278Not this >>153544425 anon, but you didn't even say why it is bad. You said it tends to be bad but didn't make the case for why. I'm sick and tired of fucking vagueposting faggots never cutting to the chase.
>>153529779stop begging dude, it's unsightly
>>153530228Yeah, my general memory of it at the time was we all thought it was gonna be retconed in a few years like Jean Grey dying at the end of Morrisons X Men, House of M/Decimation or Death of Captain America.Nope! It’s permanent.
>>153544636>make an easy to reconnect story>sales drop 30% and continue to collapse>never fix itIt really is baffling.
>>153544580Superheroes are at their best when they're high concept, a premise that can be summed up in a single sentence. Totem crap adds a bunch of pointless noise. It provided no benefit whatsoever. A fanboy writer being a fanboy writer, adding unnecessary layers to make Spider-Man impenetrable to anyone who isn't a fanboy. The Raimi films, the Spectacular cartoon, the Marvel Adventures run, those were pure Spider-Man without the complication.
>>153545514Did you write that post or did ChatGPT come up with that for you
Joe Quesada better have reserved a private plot because when he dies because people will make pilgrimages just to piss on his grave.
>>153545514The Raimi films have dopey Peter & Spider-Man 3 is fucking trash.
>>153545514>Oh yeah that origin you know that is that simple concept? Well what if we have one slight wrinkle of a question being, what if the spider and the radiation isn't all there is to the origin? What if magic was involved?Boom. Another simple idea distilled down to what you wanted. And JMS gives you enough of an out to disregard the magic angle while creating the excuse for these new totem characters to show up. That's why it's good to me.>impenetrableNigga you start at the beginning of his run and you figure it out alongside Peter. Not that hard to figure it out.
>>153546689Ditko's Peter was dopey.>>153547105That's multiple sentence, that's not simple.>And JMS gives you enough of an out to disregard the magic angle while creating the excuse for these new totem characters to show up.No he doesn't. The Book of Ezekiel would make no sense at all without it being real.>Nigga you start at the beginning of his run and you figure it out alongside Peter. Not that hard to figure it out.You should be able to pick up the start of anyone's run without having to deal with the baggage of a retcon he introduced.
>>153540126I love all the imagery implemented into that logo font, so creative!
>>153546689sounds like an accurate spider-bitch then
>>153543809I could see why (because Lowe-era is just mostly terrible) but people have some real nostalgia goggles on for BND
Why didn't they just have a quick montage of a happy ending for Peter, a few pages of him aging until seeing his daughter take the reins with a proud smile, a panel cut to black - and then the clink of glasses for the start of BND?A whole new take on old Peter Parker? You get the 'fresh, hip and young' Peter Pan never aging Peter the BND believers want, and you don't soil the mattress with a Faustian bargain making everything after feel like filler until this original sin is resolved?
