>>153537606
It was ok for what it was back then, but it was Claremont's X-Men that set up the real foundation for what the X-Men would truly become.

It was basically regurgitated Fantastic Four.

You had the serious team leader, the gruff brawler, the impetuous teen and the love interest/damsel in distress. Then somebody (Lee maybe) shoehorned in The Angel so Martin Goodman would approve it.

It wasn't terribly original from either Lee or Kirby.

>>153537606
Doom patrol in a FF skin.

It was servicable for what it was. 90s made them unique and cool.
Claremont made them interesting and saved it from rightful cancellation.

>>153537636
>>153537833
>>153537876
Do you faggots like anything?

A lot of those early Stan and Jack stories were just X-Men versus Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants over and over again, it got a bit old. They did shake things up from time to time like with Juggernaut and Sentinels. The Neal Adams-drawn run had some of the more interesting stories with Sauron and Sentinels again.

>>153537950
Earnest love and care is taken advantage of by sociopaths.
Worse its rewarded and incentivised.

Faced with this we have two choices.
Cynicism and anger
Or
Total apathy.

>>153537950
Faggot
>>153538126
Shut up

>>153538131
I'll kick your ass.

>>153537606
What can the female do?

>>153537606
It makes sense why it took until Claremont for the franchise to truly thrive because the lineup isn’t that great.

Warren’s ability fly is so basic from modern perspective and he’s entirely useless in fights. Stan also didn’t really know how to make flying thrilling so it would take ages for other writers to emphasise the marvel of that aspect in the character.

Scott is cool but his melodrama about Jean is tiresome and he doesn’t get to be that badass yet.

Jean suffers from bad writing and being just token girl.

Bobby is juvenile and not particularly funny comedic relief, and his powers when he looks made out of snow instead of ice was lame.

Hank is kinda the most interesting when he’s got that large hands and feet thing but he’s also cerebral and smart tech guy. It would still take until he turns blue and furry and joins the Avengers before he was truly great though.

It would be kinda interesting if you just took these characters and modernised them without any of the established personalities and traits, like what DC did with Tangent. Just keep the codenames and to some degree their power sets and then see how it would work with modern writing and approach to the basic concepts.

>>153538140
You sure will.

>>153538186
Pretty much.
They're basic as fuck but the basics are there for a trully good book or adaptation.
Adaptation in another medium because Im not sure if anyone in the industry can make it work.
Even bendis fucked it up HUGE and hes normie tier..when tard wrangled.


>>153538198
Say what you want about liefeld. But the man knew how to sell comics

>>153538198
Someone should ask him how many times Youngblood has been cancelled

File: IMG_0540.jpg (367 KB, 1284x1896)

367 KB JPG

Jeff Parker’s First Class was great

>>153538279
0...?

>>153538279
Never.
He owned it outright and he made millions in it. Marvel is still making millions on his work even today.

The market and a real organic comic fandom kept his head on straight. Marvel and DC have big bucks and are incentivised to antagonize and denirakize tge audience while having people control popular online spheres of comic nerds

There is no real pushback or strife that will forge the few talented creators left into true masters of the craft.

>>153537950
There's a reason why it bombed and nobody cared about the X-Men until Claremont, and I don't even like Claremont's actual writing.

File: Screenshot 2026-05-05 at (...).png (82 KB, 1086x336)

82 KB PNG

>>153538279

File: 5396198.jpg (136 KB, 600x920)

136 KB JPG

>>153538743
I think it helped a lot that the new team was so much more colorful than everyone wearing the same blue/yellow uniforms, plus the fact that other than Wolverine they didn't wear masks And yeah, I know the OG team got new costumes at one point but sheesh. I think Cyke and Beast's costumes look good but Angel was a fashion disaster and I never liked that green Marvel Girl costume

>>153537833
>The Angel so Martin Goodman would approve it.
Angel was proto Wolverine, as a romantic rival.

>>153539036
Wolverine has a lot more going on than a romantic rival. Honestly I'd say he is a really bad example for that since he is the handsome rich guy, while Wolverine is the scruffy one that makes Cyclops look like the safe option.

File: Kurt Busiek.jpg (618 KB, 1280x1504)

618 KB JPG

>>153537606
Pretty boring. They were also super boring in X-Factor too. Kurt Busiek was a big OG line up fan boy and also gave the idea for how to bring Jean back.

>>153537950
The book had been cancelled and turned into a reprint book. They got the sales figures back late for Neal Adams/Roy Thomas run which did have a boost. Then they were looking at pushing towards foreign markets so made the new team internationalist. Compared to Spider-Man and FF, the other titles at Marvel simply weren't as good. I feel like you can see all their gimmicks stretched out until they just stopped working.

>>153538578
>I don't even like Claremont's actual writing.
Len Wein and Dave Cockrum made the new team. Claremont massively benefitted from having great artists on his books. The Dark Phoenix shit gave the book an infamous must see quality that feels more gimmicky if anything especially considering how her death went down (the accidentally destroying a planet, the editorial line etc). I feel like Claremont did get given a decent hand here.

>>153539153
Wow, that kurk busiek reader seems like a regular /co/ anon, shame he will never reach greatness.

Based Claremont bashing angry fans.

>>153539074
Wolverine being a contender was also a Claremont retcon because he was really mad about Jean's resurrection. In the original run, Jean didn't think about Wolverine at all. His affection for her was completely one-sided, and he moved on when he met Mariko.

>>153539218
Nope

>>153537606
I love them. I love the melodrama of Scott and Jean, the angst in Beast and the brotherly relationship he has with Iceman. The honorable rivalry between Scott and Angel, and it doesn't even bother me they made bobby gay. I do believe that they would benefit from having a second girl in the team though.
That's why in my own head-canon, Storm should be part of this O5(6 in this case), instead of joining latter with the Uncanny.

>>153539333
>and it doesn't even bother me they made bobby gay.
Retard

>>153538279
>Someone should ask him how many times Youngblood has been cancelled
Cancelled for low sales? Hasn't really happened. It's gone on indefinite hiatus a number of times when the company publishing it dies or Liefeld focuses on other projects, or the people he's hired to work on it move on, but it's not the same thing as cancellation.

>>153537606
>How do you feel about the original X-Men lineup?
Along with the late 60s additions of Havok and Polaris and that's probably 90% of the X-Men I ever cared about, but they're all ruined beyond repair by now aren't they? Just like X-Men in general.

I get why some people think these guys were boring, but Jesus, take Wolverine away and the new crew from the 70s are just as boring or worse, Logan carried that lineup hard.

>>153539333
>Storm should be part of this O5
Polaris is right there bro

>>153537606
They are on the weak side for a superhero team. Not having a strong guy limits them a bit. and then Angel has just no function at all in a fight with a supervillain. Nothing they did interested me very much.

File: 8gjg.jpg (531 KB, 636x992)

531 KB JPG

>>153537606
I never really cared much about the 60s X-Men but I was a fan of 80s X-Factor.

>>153538186
>>153539591
X-Factor gave them a series of power upgrades because of this. Warren got the metal wings and he became the powerhouse of the team. Hank was jumped to Thing level in strength, and Bobby became one of the most powerful mutants on Earth.

>>153537606
For a basic mutant team, it's alright. Angel, Ice Man and Beast are the bulk and main attraction, but yeah, the next team is better

>>153539591
Beast is the original strong guy, but they decided to also make him the smart guy.

Bobby is Human Torch 2: ice edition.

Cyclops is the leader, but his powers are too artillery focused, making him keep the main guy status a uphill fight.

Jean was the girl, I think she would have been more successful if she and Cyclops swapped powers.

Warren the rich rival, and even with the power boosts, at best he would be relegated to recon or aerial support.

>>153539568
She gets sidelined hard after a strong introduction.

>>153539591
If they gave Angel projectile weapons, he'd work. Had near miss between a cover and using a gun before he joined the X-Men in his origin.

>>153539803
The problem is that Cyclops is already the artillery/sniper of the team.

>>153539757
Jean and Cyclops swapping powers sounds interesting but I don't think it'd have worked. We'd have had 2 male psychics and a girl who wore glasses/goggles which was considered unsexy in the 60s
>>153539803
yeah Angel really needed a secondary power or some kind of gimmick besides flying. Maybe make him able to flap his wings so hard like Rodan that it can knock people over, idk. At least he eventually became Archangel, now that was a hell of an upgrade

>>153539972
There have been several writers who have made it a point to show that Angel's wings have to be incredibly strong to be able to lift him (and sometimes another person) the way they do. He's also the best at maneuvering.

>>153539772
All the more reason to bring her into the fold as the newest member of the X-Men. It’d save her from being the forgotten 3rd Magneto kid, at least.

>>153539972
The two psychics are a student-teacher duo, it would make Scott more of a successor.
Sunglasses Jean, would be like the image of an incognito movie star, or tragic beauty.

>>153538397
Who actually reads Youngblood? It's supposedly popular but I have never seen anyone actually give a shit about it. Some kind of money laundering scheme?

>>153539972
That definitely looks good in my head for her civilian attire. I feel she'd be called Medusa, being a woman with a deadly gaze, which would cause trickle down effects.

>>153540072
>>153540327
I meant to quote this one.

File: X-Men-V1-57-22.jpg (234 KB, 900x1311)

234 KB JPG

>>153537606
I only like them because Neal Adams drew a visually spectacular run.

>>153540417
Post the page where they morph their powers together to shoot a laser beam in space. That was metal as fuck

>>153537606
Kinda dull, I always really loved the costumes though.

>>153539972
>>153540014
Angel has had like a dozen secondary powers. For one thing there was the healing blood

The Archangel form with metal wings that can act like shields, or sharp blades, and shoot projectile flechettes. And it comes with a healing factor on par with Logan. And a speed boost, so he's basically like a fighter jet.

He's had Life Seed powers. Embueing him with energy for healing, energy construct weapons, a supersonic speed boost allowing him to travel continents

O5 Angel had the Black Vortex enhancement. He got cosmic fire wings which he used to throw fire around. Protection from the vacuum and radiation, interstellar flight

>>153539926
Angel should have been given expanded bird powers and super sonic speed and maneuverability.
Super sight, superspeed flight and maneuverability, and increased daredevil like senses.
He would easily have been valuable as a recon guy.

>>153537606
Charles wanting to fuck Jean secretly was a weird thing to establish early on.

Beast was pretty lame before he turned himself into a blue furry because he at least stood out more in terms of recognizability.

I do miss fuckboy Iceman who was a incorrigible pussy hound before Bendis made Teen Jean use telepathic conversion therapy to turn him into the O5's token queer.

Cyclops was alright but he had the problem of being the boyscout stick-in-the-mind that casuals just presume Superman is that made him kind of boring outside of his optic blast issues and family drama.

Jean was pretty much just the girl / Scott's GF and while "Marvel Girl" was a step in the right direction that costume with the cheap Madama Butterfly mask and yellow dishwasher gloves was way too tacky. That said, I like she wasn't solely used to cuck Scott initially so Logan could look better.

>>153540930
They’ve been overcompensating with Warren for years and it’s never been good after he became Archangel. Thankfully most of the time they just ignore everything but the fact is that nobody knows what to do with Warren so they end up doing dumb power ups. Just keep him blue and keep the metal wings. Who fucking likes him as normal and with feather wings? Nobody.

You also really need someone to focus on his character and make him more than just the rich guy. He probably should be revamped entirely as someone who doesn’t really go to the field and is more of a support character in some capacity. I kinda liked the Age of Apocalypse version where iirc he ran a bar or something. Make him run Madripoor or something where he needs to be more diplomatic and use his influence and charm to maintain peace and order and occasionally he can help the X-men. Do something that isn’t just more power upgrades and/or crucifixion

>>153539218
Claremont is shit.

>>153543348
No

>>153543348
Jim pls

>>153539757
Beast was never a strong guy, he was the agile nimble one that could dance around a villain like Spider-Man.

>>153539972
>>153540930
Warren being kind of useless against anyone with a gun is the very reason writers kept inventing new powers for him throughout the 00s and 2010s..before settling right back into letting him be Archangel again.
A guy with bird wings that flies as his only power is impressive for a slice of life type story, or a teen adventure. Not so much for a superhero team that goes against supervillains.

>>153541398
In the 80s X-Factor days he did have bird sight that let him read books from a mile or two away. Then they turned him into archangel and that was forgotten for the cooler flying Wolverine powers.

>>153543774
He was for like 3 issues, than he was reworked.

>>153539803
This is why Hawkman has weapons, Wasp shoots energy from her hands, Sauron has mind control, Beetle has his power armor weapons, having wings and flying is not really enough.

File: IMG_5046.jpg (36 KB, 360x555)

36 KB JPG

Is Archangel the best edgy revamp of a superhero of all time?

>>153543806
>>153544002
He can knock someone into a coma with his wings. A lot of writers just forget this.

File: FL1pd.jpg (46 KB, 300x242)

46 KB JPG

>>153543806
>Warren being kind of useless against anyone with a gun is the very reason writers kept inventing new powers for him throughout the 00s and 2010s..before settling right back into letting him be Archangel again.
It is because some writers really want to make the original powerset and looks work.

>A guy with bird wings that flies as his only power is impressive for a slice of life type story, or a teen adventure. Not so much for a superhero team that goes against supervillains.
Well Flash Gordon has his Hawkmen

>>153542055
>>153543806
I'd rather go back to this overcompensating with Warren. Overcompensating with Doug Ramsey of all people is too much.

>>153544156
Notice how they all carry weapons and lasers?

>>153544156
Hawkmen never really go up against superpowered supervillains that shoot lasers from their eyes or have superstrength. They mostly fight other pulp action villains with swords and occasionally guns.

>>153539218
Kurt Busiek wrote Avengers and Thunderbolts which mogs most of X-Men before and after

File: redesigns-of-some-public-(...).jpg (71 KB, 368x543)

71 KB JPG

>>153544273
Yes, and Airman was big brain enough to carry bombs with him.

>>153544199
>Doug Ramsey of all people is too much.
Considering that writing in ancient Egypt was literally magic, he could have developed as a sorcerer.

File: Revelation.jpg (263 KB, 640x969)

263 KB JPG

>>153544511
They made him heir of Apocalypse and gave him vocal mind control abilities.

>>153544133
Seriously, for his wings to generate enough lift for both him and a passenger off the ground, they'd have to either flap a million times a second like a hummingbird or they have the force of a fucking jet engine

If those wings slap someone in the face, that face should crumple in on itself
Just give him a healing factor so that they can recover from injuries, and let him fight people like that Goose game

>>153537606
They're ok but the probably is that they don't have an definite footing until Claremont came and gave is the X-Men love and support. The original line-up can be serve for flashbacks.

>>153544625
Weren't some pterosaurs giraffe sized? He would have around the same strength despite the smaller size.

>>153544358
The first two volumes of Astro City are better than anything Claremont wrote.

>>153538180
Telekinesis

>>153539803
Angel needs a fucking fire sword

>>153538304
>>153539029
>>153539622
How does Cyclops always get cool looking outfits?

File: 202108270112.jpg (159 KB, 509x501)

159 KB JPG

>>153538198
>Fucking Thunderbird tombstone

>>153537606
It fucking sucks. Even for the time X-men were boring as shit. Every single character there (except Angel and Iceman) improved amazingly once Claremont arrived (Beast improved once he went blue, not cause of Claremont but you get what I mean.)

I never liked Iceman or Angel in general though.

>>153539153
he's right the Hellfire Club story is what planted the seeds for everything wrong with modern X-men

>>153546288
I think they've done that. A few times

>>153539153
jean spending so much time away from the team specifically having a year long storyline where they're split up thinking the other is dead was very unfortunate in lieu of her unplanned death. she was claremont's muse and she barely gets any time in his run.

File: RCO004_1765861093.jpg (538 KB, 1120x1600)

538 KB JPG

>>153543835
No, he was always the agile acrobat guy.

>>153546816
>mistakes are for homo sapiens
so the X-men were always racist assholes

>>153537606
Cyclops and Jean have their ups and downs, Beast only ever improved. You can point to how much they shit on Hank over the years but the furry blue Beast was an improvement, and his time on the Avengers was genuinely fun. Nobody cares about or even remembers Angel
The damage done to Iceman and Xavier in the recent years, unlike Beast, has not yielded any positive results and also unlike Beast I don't think they can ever recover

>>153546857
Beast never recovered, they had to give him the Stark treatment.

>>153538304
I just thought it was kinda okay.

>>153537606
Really progressive for having a homosexual on it.

>>153546887
That is recovering.

>>153544057
He's honestly my favorite character design of all time.
I know I have shit taste.

>>153541895
He was in love with Jean, he wouldn’t have boned her until marriage probably. I actually like it, especially since it came up again during his fake death and again when she became Phoenix. It’s an idealized love that he gave up on because it wasn’t right.

>>153541895
>Charles wanting to fuck Jean secretly was a weird thing to establish early on.
Wasn't it just a throw away line?

>>153547123
No, Cyclops wondered if Professor X was in love with Jean in issue 41

File: 1574406422875m.jpg (119 KB, 794x1024)

119 KB JPG

>>153546857
Beast, Cyclops, and Jean have benefitted the most from media exposure the decades. They alongside Charles are premier X-Men and have had stories that have given them more, beyond being mutants. Iceman had something, but you can pretty much seperate him into his pre and post-Jean era. Where they pretty much forced him to become gay, and like many others, that's all that he's remembered for now in soite of his history with women. Angel was just screwed from the beginning where all he had was wings and being rich. And even the archangel reinvention was just a desperate way to give him something interesting. Honestly, they should really just take some cues from Hawks in MHA, and Sanguinius from 40k, and just go full in on being an angel rather than just a WASP with wings

>>153539153
>I feel like Claremont did get given a decent hand here.
I've been saying something like this for a while. Dark Phoenix was the big breakout moment that turned X-Men into a top selling book, and it happened because of largely unplanned reasons, things that were happening around Claremont, but for which he got all the credit from fans, and for better or worse, he leaned into more of what got the Dark Phoenix Saga acclaim; 'permanent' changes, 'mature' themes, weird sexual stuff and character deaths.

>>153547625
>and just go full in on being an angel rather than just a WASP with wings
They tried it repeatedly, to the point he gained healing blood.

File: RCO008_w_1567731630.jpg (496 KB, 1008x1600)

496 KB JPG

>>153537606
you gonna post em or what

>>153538126
sociopaths and psychopaths are largely a fiction

certainly the portrayal of them as prevalent in society or capable of attaining and retaining positions of influence is a myth, they're fucking tards

you're literally scared of morons

>>153548333
Was this the worst retcon to ever happen to Scott?

>>153544617
And that’s fine, he went through Apocalypse’s upgrade after all

>>153548350
No. Evil people are very real.
I just used the state quasi-religious definition created by the pseudoscience of psychology to get my point across.

There are unironically evil people out there. And they gravitate towards power control and ruin.

>>153546288
>Angel needs to rip off of Zauriel from JLA

No.

>>153548476
It is theorized that the reason for why serial killers stopped is because they moved on to work in middle management.

I've always liked them, but I liked them moving into a more "senior" position after the second team started. It was the rare dose of time moving on in a universe that never really aged.

>>153544625
This is why almost every single mutant with animal powers also has fast healing. Because having fangs and claws is not better than just owning a gun. They need something else in their powerset other than animal stuff to be capable of surviving being a hero or else they would die to any thug with a gun.

DC even did that for Hawkman, now he can heal up from almost any damage Wolverine style. Because a guy who flies is not the best in a regular brawl, and wings are some more liabilities for someone to shoot, stab, or break.

>>153547625
They already played with that back in the early 00s. Gave him healing and the soul sword for a while. Like all his various power additions, it was ignored by the next writer and never came up again.

>>153548079
>>153548663
I was aware of the healing blood, but they even gave him a sword? I was going along the lines of just being a super-powered angel, like the archangel Michael when he trounced Satan. Or like Sangunius using his power of flight to turn the battlefield into a 3-dimensional one. Maybe it's just Warren as a person and character that's just unappealing?

>>153548781
>Maybe it's just Warren as a person and character that's just unappealing?

The problem is that for the past 30 years most writers haven’t actually been interested in developing Angel as a person and he doesn’t really have much utility or a definite role. Being rich doesn’t mean anything when the X-men aren’t ever really depicted as needing funding and him running the family business doesn’t lend itself to mutant stories.

Under iirc Lodbell there was a random idea about Warren’s family being a member of the Hellfire club. Maybe you could do something with that and have him run things there, maybe not as a King but as a Bishop and you revamped the entire club to serve a different type of function now. Less X-corp shit and more like dealing with mutant affairs that isn’t first and foremost about fighting bad guys. Maybe the club is a neutral ground for mutants and it’s more like mutant version of the mob now, where you come to the hellfire club if a mutant needs a favour to fix a problem. It wouldn’t be openly criminal but some level of shady shit has to happen from time to time to grease the wheels and solve certain issues. That way you can play with how much can Angel be a good guy without becoming corrupt.

>>153548781
It was Ilyana's soul sword, same one from the 80s.

>>153549202
If he's a handsome and rich guy who is visibly a mutant, so he is in a really good position for public relations.

>>153548350
>sociopaths and psychopaths are largely a fiction
wut

>>153549225
>>153548781
Alternate reality Illyana actually, from the Exiles. And she just summoned a new sword
Warren got to keep the sword he stole, but everyone pretty much forgot he had it.
It was the same run that gave him the healing blood and had him banging Husk

They've given him swords a few other times, it never lasts

>>153537876
the only thing it has in common with dp is a wheel chair.

>>153539029
>I never liked that green Marvel Girl costume
heresy, its peak when she wears it during krakoa.

File: 50-Tomboy-Captain-Flash-1(...).jpg (286 KB, 1024x954)

286 KB JPG

>>153550691
As someone who's also not a fan of the Marvel Girl costume, what makes it so special and significant during the Krakoa era? I've heard it's because it's her own design of what she thinks a hero looks like, but I just don't like that it's a green dress with a mask. It reeks of outdated, 50's superhero styles.

>>153550473
A sword is lame weapon for a flying dude for the precise reason that it requires close combat

>>153550880
Bow and arrows aren't much better, because drawing the bow means moving the elbow back, and that can be awkward to draw with wings

Which leaves guns or crossbows

>>153551064
Archangel had his metal wings that could slash or shoot blades. It worked entirely fine for years, it was only when nostalgia blinded writers wanted to bring back his feather wings that you ended up with all this angelic flame wings and healing blood etc. bs that everyone ignores for a reason.

>>153551235
What if writers just made his metalic wings white and left it at that? You could even give him the talons/claws from Ultimate X-Men as a pity bonus too.

>>153537606
I'm a fan, just would prefer more variety in their costumes is all

>>153537636
>Claremont's X-Men that set up the real foundation
This. I initially struggled to get through the issues because I wasn't used to that type of storytelling but I quickly became captivated by Claremont writing style which also became less "redundant".
He made X Men feel like real people and not just one dimensional characters.

File: IMG_4868.jpg (371 KB, 822x1265)

371 KB JPG

Always a fan of "quick, this character for whom we have no logo needs one real fast. It'll never be used again"

File: spider truth.jpg (2.37 MB, 1917x1740)

2.37 MB JPG

Find it impossible to like any X-Men anything anymore. Too much character assassination. Every single one of them acts like a shithead at one point.

>>153551865
It really came to a head during the Krakoa era, where the really stopped being heroes and became more like a weird, ethno, sex cult. It was really bad because you could also tell it was a ticking time bomb before it all blew up in their face

>>153551739
Yeah, they could just give him the ability of throwing shap feathers.

>>153551847
>that frozen Spidey in the UPC square
ha, that's cute. And very unusual! It was almost always either a front-facing Spiderman face, or one year it was Captain America's face when it was his 50th anniversary or something.
Also, we almost had a "Spiderman and his Amazing Friends" reunion here, but they used Angel instead of Angelica. Was the writer just being intentionally silly with that choice or what

>>153538198
And yet, Cyclops, Jean, Bobby, and Beast remain among the most popular and recognizable X-Men characters. So it seems the problem wasn't with the characters, but with the writing.

>>153552653
Cycke is cool because of a video game
Jean grey has always been boring
Beast is just there
Iceman is ruined forever
Angel who?

>>153548470
well they made him a nazi at the end of this book, and not one of the competent ones so

>>153552653
Iceman isn’t that popular. Nor is beast.

>>153550292
neither of those terms is a medical diagnosis, what you think you know about them comes mostly from movies

imagine an autistic person whose obsession is not trains but manipulating other people

but also they don't really understand how other people's minds work because they use different bits of their own brains to approximate how normal brains work, and as a result are literally incapable of behaving normally

if you were working with a psychopath you'd know about it because they'd be coming up with Dick Dastardly-tier schemes to get you to do what they want

if you were working with a sociopath you'd know it because they'd just stop and take a crap on the floor and be incapable of understanding why other people don't do that and why they themselves should not do that

medically speaking there are antisocial, manipulative and violent traits and behaviors that can be diagnosed, but "psychopath" and "sociopath" are not actual conditions, they're touchy-feeling shorthand for "look at this poor dumb ragey dickhead"


>>153548476
oh, you're the guy who comes into threads and calls shit satanic, aren't you?

yeah, you're not going places in life, and you probably don't understand why

File: Uncanny X-Men (1963) - Is(...).jpg (659 KB, 1200x1821)

659 KB JPG

So I've started reading Claremont X-Men because of this thread and it's quite good. Reminds me of when I started reading "The Suicide Squad" and "Crisis on Infinite Earths". Seeing the classic X-Men we know and love as a new team is unique, and I'm really seeing why they stood out and became so iconic. Although out of the other three: Banshee, Sunfire, and Thunderbird, I can see why Banshee was the only one to really make it out unscathed. Sunfire is an asshole and Japanese nationalist, and Thunderbird was made to die, even though he was rough but had a warrior's spirit.
Regarding the old team, I never knew that Havok and Polaris were around much earlier than I remembered. I always thought they came around after the old era. Same for Beast joining the Avengers. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that's Nick Fury in the bottom right of the page. And are those the rest of the Avengers with him?

>>153552899
And now that I'm looking again, if I'm not mistaken, I think that's Daredevil in the bottom left too.

File: Uncanny X-Men (1963) - Is(...).jpg (532 KB, 1200x1881)

532 KB JPG

And now a nice meta joke featuring Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. I like how you can tell it's Jack with his iconic grimace and tough face.

>>153552899
Not sure who the two on the bottom are, but that's Contessa next to Fury.

>>153552729
It is funny how many new secret family members Scott got

>>153549202
Remember when Gambit was King of Thieves? You basically had an x-man running the underworld and having infinite resources to help them. Writers just don't own the skills to write interesting stories like this. All they know is who's gay and who isn't.

>>153552653
Recognizable, but not popular. My son knows that there is a "blue guy", but doesn't know his name is Beast. Same for Angel as the "guy with the wings" or how Colossus is "metal guy".
Actual popular xmen are Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Gambit, Xavier, Jean, Kurt.

>>153553235
He is still the king. The problem is that Thieves Guild and all the backstory they gave to Gambit in the 90s is horrible. There has never been a good thieves guild story because they don’t work well for x-men

>>153552899
Polaris and Havock were only beaten by Mimic, as the "newest guys"

>>153553285
There's a handful of popular X-Men that most people know about. Off the top of my head are:
>Wolverine
>Cyclops
>Jean Grey
>Storm
>Collossus
>Nightcrawler
>Rogue
>Gambit
>Beast
>Charles
>Shadowcat
>Emma Frost
Those are the X-Men from the classic era I would consider as premier X-Men. I want to say Iceman, but his popularity has waned over the years. There's also Cable, but his thing is more with X-Force.
Then there are the X-Men in more recent years who've had a boost in popularity and may even start to take the place of some of the others. Namely Magik and X-23, off the top of my head.
Also, what do you guys think if Deadpool being included when people talk about the X-Men? Deadpool is more of a free agent, one of the big faces of Marvel, and someone who's been frequently associated with the X-Men despite his many adventures. I know they've flip-flopped between him being a mutant or not, but he's more firmly grounded as a mutant and his associated media are X-Men adjacent stories as well

>>153553285
>popular xmen
>Jean
Come on, no one likes Jean. I'd say Emma's much more popular now thanks to Rivals.

>>153553439
To be fair, whenever people talk about Jean, they're really talking about Phoenix and the Phoenix Saga. It is one of the most iconic and consistent events in Marvel.

>>153553410
I'd drop Colossus from that list, he hasn't been relevant since AvX

Probably add "Psylocke's Asian Body"
Maybe Bishop too, if only because he's the closest thing to an A-List black male X-Man
But if you add him then you may as well include Cable

>>153552653
There is a main team that appears in all media for the reaon to check all the important boxes for an ensemble cast.

>Cyclops the stoic stick in the mud leader guy
>Wolverine the cool rival
>Jean the love interest
>Storm the minority
>Rogue the powers is not always a blessing lesson
>Beast is also sometimes around for the same lesson but also a convenient character for normal people to discriminate against because he looks like an animal but is smart
>Shadowcat/Jubilee for the teen just starting out and learning

Everyone else is just sort of extra. But the main cartoon team is the main movie and all other media team for the same reasons. Ensemble casts need to bring the team members down to the most important for storytelling and that cast was decided in 1992 in the cartoon.

Ice Man, Archangel, Colossus, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Forge, they do not matter as much because they are not special. Ice Man miiiiight appear as a token gay character but so many minority boxed are checked already. Nightcrawler could be used instead of Beast for the same function.Anyone with a cool power that likes their power is sort of dropped since they do not work well in the whole
>Woe is me, I'm a hated minority for shooting lasers from my fingers!!
story every single writer fucking loves to tell with X-Men so we rarely get Ice Man, Colossus, Gambit, Angel, Sunfire, or Banshee.

>>153553439
It is surprising how Jean didn't really move the community, not even with jojo memes.

>>153537833
>It was basically regurgitated Fantastic Four.

they ripped off doom patrol that was itself ripping off fantastic four, that was a ripoff of challengers of the unknown. it's Kirby all the way down.

>>153552504
Based ball knower

>>153554446
Eh, Sunfire's a Japanese Nationalist asshole who frequently leaves and argues with everyone. Also his costume is stupid.

>>153553410
Remove beast nightcrawler collosus and shadowcat.
No one REALLY knows them. They are background characters they will at most recognize.

>>153552331
>you could also tell it was a ticking time bomb before it all blew up in their fac
wow really, you think a 3 year arc where they're all immortal and hanging out with apocalypse and mr sinister was designed to blow up in their faces and shit on them, how astute captain obvious.
Its just another x arc like avx where they're ultimately right in the end but still demonized for it despite everyone else making every effort possible to sabotage them.

>>153553410
>what do you guys think if Deadpool being included when people talk about the X-Men?
he's had 3 billion dollar x-men movies.

>>153555836
Wow.

>>153555836
Didn't Fantatic Four rip off JLA?

>>153557192
Ok, I see your point there.

>>153556470
Those characters are important for adding visual and personality variety to the team and two of them are international. There's going to be a lot of people who have peter as their favorite either because they're russian or they played in him x-men arcade, children of the atom, or whatever when they were kids. Kitty isn't super known but she's intended to be a viewpoint character.
If marvel had a brain they do this franchise like they launched avengers and pick characters to do solo films with first before they have them set foot in charles school, or its going to just end up like x-men 2000 where its a bunch of glorified wolverine movies featuring side chartacters.

>>153537606
It was pretty good for what it was. It didn't reach its full potential, but I liked it. It's also marvel's most revisited superhero line-up. I also feel similarly about the OG Guardians of the Galaxy

>>153538279
>they hated him because he spoke the truth

>>153538578
it didn't really bomb, because it was selling as much as avengers, it's just that goodman being a greedy jew wanted to put kibosh on the book, until Stan Lee stopped him. the compromise was that the book kept going on, but as a reprint title. Avengers survived because it was supposed to become similar to JLA, which obviously never really happened, as Avengers are basically c-listers team.

Original Hulk got cancelled after 6 issues, does it mean that it sucked?

>>153539622
IMO, what made X-Factor fun is that they were not only a very capable and experienced team, but also a family of sorts. I really like the Muir Island Saga, when the old guard has to fight against the new students it shows the contrast perfectly

File: devilscomefrombelow.jpg (281 KB, 1245x1920)

281 KB JPG

>>153537606
Angel's the best guy and he got the least exposure

>>153560185
A lot of Marvel stuff sucked. FF and Spider-Man feel like the outliers. Other titles took some time to work. I feel like Marvel reused ideas so much and so often until things got reworked well enough or stuck.

>>153560185
Original Hulk was a Wolfman expy so yes
yiff in hell, hulkfag

>>153551847
didn't Spidey team up with Beast and Angel in the early 1970s?

>>153559909
They were science heroes and explorers like the Challengers, not big time superheroes like the JLA.
>>153560185
The early Hulks were very different and frequently changed how the Hulk worked, trying to find an angle that worked.

>>153560482
Weird how Wanda, Pietro, Beast and Angel were the first characters to branch out.

>>153560152
>Avengers survived because it was supposed to become similar to JLA, which obviously never really happened

well it did but it took decades and adding Spider-Man and Wolverine to the team.