Why are so many indie pilots unoriginal?
>>153562021>twitter screencapI'm 90% convinced that guy was the person who was spamming ABC Warriors vs Transformers threads
>>153562021Unoriginal in what way, exactly?
>>153562021I want three examples of each of their extrapolations.
>>153562021what shows is he even talking about
>>153562276Wastelandia, the gaslight district, helluva boss, lackadaisy, tadc, mrbeast labs the animated series, knights of guinevere
>>153562276Nothing. Faggot has no idea of what he even is complaining baout
>>153562391So those are the Gravity Falls. Now where are the Ed, Edd and Eddy?
>>153562021Don't forget furry slice of life where they work mundane wagie jobs and do drugs.
>>153562021We need a cartoon where every character gets hit in the balls so they’re not too whiny and remember not to be perverts. Set a good example for the audience
>>153562021>>153562611Don't forget about the kitty bobo show copycats.
>>153562419Day job
>>153562021Nothing new under the sun. Execution is what matters.That being said, being able to execute an idea well is a rare talent. Everyone can be an idea man, few can make it work.
>>153562848I’m so glad this wasn’t greenlit. Would’ve enabled all the softies trying to make cartoons with no concept, just cartoon characters doing real life stuff.
>>153562021Yeah but the big professional studios are only capable of making movies that are a whimsical animated fairy tale of the time the director's parents divorced.
>>153562419Lackadaisy.
>>153562848Can you name any examples?Can you name any examples that's "Kitty Bobo but the couples mixed up"?
>>153562925That one student film with the furry on the toilet that everyone called an indie pilot
>>153562419Ramshackle
>>153562021Being creative is hard. Being artistically talented is hard. Being both is very rare indeed.
>>153562405Shut up dollyfag
>>153562963>Meanwhile, in another timelineWhen there's trouble, you know who to call.Furry on the toilet!I want to fuck the monkey now.
>>153562021100% get thisevery indie pilot i see posted here is usually either "newgrounds the animated series" "quirky furry troon friends" or "totally not steven universe" and they all cuss and swear and hate capitalism
>>153563063Even beyond that, originality is overrated. There's only like 8 plots(less depending on who you ask) and tropes and cliches exist for a reason, and while you can absolutely ignore those, the results tend to be garbage that no one is interested in unless you do it extremely well.Pic related.
>>153562848yeah...
>>153562021>person who's only seen two shows: "ugh, why is everything like these two shows???"
>>153563063Not really, most skilled people have real jobs. The ones who make it in the industry often do have both but are more marketable to white western values. So you're just mentally stunted towards media that caters to your specific interests and mental stimulation. A basic bitch. You like the slop.>>153563241To unironically use a macro image during peak irony era meant to call actual retards who do not know they are the joke is peak cognitive dissonance. The horse theorist are actually right it seems.
>>153563299>ironyI can't be bothered to post ironically
>>153563063What’s hard is securing the self-determined time necessary to make a cartoon, which is why most of our corporate animators come straight from a suburb and most of our indie animators are part-timers or art students.
>>153562021It's not a totally baseless idea but the show examples they gave don't make much sense.Instead you could maybe say that too many have a mundane setting or premise, which leads to mundane stories. They'll have some sort of twist but you can mostly guess what will happen from a quick glance of things.They also don't really say or convey anything super meaningful or novel. So beyond the base entertainment value they don't feel super compelling to watch. A lot of them seem too afraid of offending people so they can secure funding, so they make a lot of safe decisions that are proven to work without controversy.
>Every single indie cartoon is either ed edd n Eddy but they're not mean to each other [...]What is this fag talking about? I haven’t seen a single indie cartoon that even remotely resembles Ed, Edd n Eddy.
>>153563729It's a retarded sentiment that becomes obvious once you rephrase it to what the mentioned shows are actually about. >Every single indie cartoon is either a bunch of kids having shenanigans in their neighborhood but they're not mean to each other or a pair of siblings investigating the paranormal but they swear."
>>153562391How is Lackadaisy either Edd Ed n Eddy or Gravity Falls?
>>153562895Another Corner Gas reaction image?
>>153562021Genuinely what in the fuck is this guy talking about?Either he has the broadest definition of Ed, Edd n Eddy and Gravity Falls imaginable or he is just that meme about a guy who has only ever seen one movie.
>>153564119I think he means straight comedy vs emotional stories
>>153563241A bunch of pilots are just “Sailor Moon nostalgia.” Theres a lot more stories than that>>153564119So you’ve never seen winners like “kids crying in the woods”
>>153564477Don't reply to me when you clearly have no understanding of what I'm talking about.
>>153564510Don’t jack yourself off because you have social clout with artists who’re probably going to fail. Pulling out corny ass “durrr there’s only 7 stories” defenses requires no intelligence.
>>153562021What about lesbian therapy session?
>>153564457God, I hope not because if that is all it takes then most stories ever told are a variation of Ed, Edd n Eddy or Gravity Falls.>>153564477>“kids crying in the woods”I have not no. Even if that is a real thing and similar to (I am assuming) Gravity Falls that is still an outlier.
>>153562021Gravity falls was as unoriginal as you can get
>>153562021I'd fucking KILL for anything even remotely similar to Ed, Edd n Eddy in the indie animation bubble but everyone are hacks who can't into slapstick comedy
because most creatives are almost always whiny lefty types and they all have the same opinions
>>153564675I don't even know what Ed Edd and Eddy clones that twatter guy is referring to.
>>153562888I never thought of it like that before but you absolutely right. No wonder kids didn’t vote for this. Adventure Time ruined everything.
>>153563299You definitely watch essayslop videos. lol nigger
>>153562848Kitty Bobo was Mission Hill but furry
>>153564661>God, I hope not because if that is all it takes then most stories ever told are a variation of Ed, Edd n Eddy or Gravity Falls.>>153564661>Either he has the broadest definition of Ed, Edd n Eddy and Gravity Falls imaginable Yes I think you got it in one
>>153564764Nothing actually happens in Kitty Bobo. At least Mission Hill has actual stories and was meant for a more mature audience.
>>153564787Kitty Bobo gets cell phone and annoys everyone.
>gravity falls but they swearname 1 (1) example of this.
>>153562021why are you posting random twitter dipshits?
>>153564880How about 2? Helluva Boss and Hasbin Hotel.
>>153562611So like... Duckman?
>>153564969how are those gravity falls
>>153564969I am going to need you to explain that one it detail, chief.
>>153562274I think whoever that is, is clinically retarded. I have never seen what hes talking about. Unless he thinks people being friends and beyond generic archetypes they represent are started by those shows.
>>153564969>Helluvaverse>Gravity Falls but they swearI get that Vivzie is a Disney song fan and made her main series a musical out of it but this has NOTHING similar to GF
>>153565116no see the characters uhhhh talk to each other and make jokes and uhhhh sometimes have feelings and emotions that drive character actions.... uhhh beanmouth???
>>153565132And they're made by the Libtards, aint that the truth!
>>153564880>>153564969>>153565095I think what OP meant by Gravity Falls is that this was the show that kicked off deepest lore kids shows. It starts out light and then by the end of the series, you're fighting gods over the fate of reality. Add in swearing and then suddenly it's not for kids, it's totes adult. Hellaverse is obviously hinting at deepest lore with Lilith and I don't need to explain the cussing part. As for the EEandE mention, maybe he means stuff like Digital Circus. Where people are mean but not too mean because we can't have a heckin problematic villain? I'm reaching with that one, the dude should have picked a better show.
>>153562021>only two optionsIt helps no one to be reductive
>>153565148>It starts out light and then by the end of the series, you're fighting gods over the fate of reality.That's an anime trope that literally describes 80% of jrpg plotlines and has been around since the 70's
>>153562021Same reason Twitter threads are unoriginal.
>>153565176Yeah I know.Hell thats the most bog standard sci/fantasy trope. Narc imbeciles who think they and their experiences are the first of anything should not be listened too
The only Ed Edd n Eddy-likes are direct fan animations by people super dedicated to staying on model, usually prequels/sequels and they mostly try to keep the meanness sometimes
>>153562021>three characters!>two characters!
>OK, so we take sonicyeah>and they live on an islandyeah>and fight Dr Eggmanyeaaaaah>and we make all the characters mentally illye-wait what?>So, sonic will be a narcicist, Tails witll have Dyslexia and ADD, Knuckles will have brain damage from being dropped as a baby, amy is a stalker um... what?>and we'll give them a conspiricy theorist friend, and a gay friend woah woah woah a gay sonic character?>oh, we'll just hint that he's gay until like, late season 2Oh, and Eggman is actually just a huge sonic fan and it's all to get sonic's attentionuhh... episode ideas?>So, eggman has violated the HOA by manufacturing robots in a residential areaare you high>and he has to convince them to let him stay or they will repossess his homeseriously what the fuck>and he convinces them by reading the HOA guidebook and arguing that his robots are artistic expressionwhat does sonic do>oh nothing, he turns up thinking eggman is up to something, but then he's like "oh... ok, see ya later"why?>so all the actors get paiddo you... need to talk to someone? a therapist or something?
>>153565685you seem to be in the wrong thread anonplease read the OP before posting
>>153565685Shouldn’t you be in /sthg/ with the other faggots?
>>153562021Because people born after 1980 don't have any skills or creativity.
>>153562021I'd love to hear Dipper say cunt at least one time
>>153562021Because a lot of the people making this shit don’t have any idea how to properly separate their works from other cartoons. So they just rely on gimmicks and novelty and hope that they will find some niche audience to latch onto it and play the roll of pay pigs.
>>153562149Damn nigga what does that guy even have against Transformers, they're pretty different all things considered.
>>153565685Yes, this is why nobody pitches a comedy show with a dry list of what happens in a given episode
>>153566612>so sonic is building ikea furniturego on>and due to tails having dyslexia, they put it together wrongso... this is the season finale... are you sure>Shadow is so disgusted by this, that he tries to kill sonic for being bad at building IKEAYou really need to stop drinking, it's barely 11am
>>153564550It's your word vs. the past 3000 years of history, guy. Which should I consider?
>>153562021Why do industrycucks still go to bat for an industry that functionally doesn't exist in the west anymore?
>>153566673Is this your excuse for why you aren’t like me: full of originality? Can you actually make anything like a single artistic classic from all that time? Sit down. No one cares that smug artists talk to you.
>>153562848KND was one of my favourite cartoons growing up so I'm glad it got greenlit over this.
>>153565148>Add in swearing and then suddenly it's not for kids, it's totes adult. Only young children care about swearing and sex mentions. I'd be more amused at an R-rated flick where everybody talks like Ned Flanders.
Animation pipelines eat money and time like nothing else. A single polished short can cost tens of thousands even with a skeleton crew. Comics require consistent output for Patreon or Kickstarter to stay afloat. 1 failed project and you're back to a day job. In that environment, "original" is terrifying because it has no built-in audience hook. Nostalgia bait solves the cold-start problem.This is the formula now:"What if [beloved childhood property] but [edgy modern twist or furry/queer/anticapitalist spin]?"Plenty of creators openly say they want to eat and pay rent. The issue is when the nostalgia becomes the entire point.The result? A sea of projects that feel like fanfiction pitched as originals.Big studios get roasted for nostalgia slop, but at least they have the excuse of shareholder pressure.Inies were supposed to be the escape hatch, the place where weird, personal, risky ideas could live.Instead, the same platform incentives have turned "indie" into its own commercial genre with its on cliches. Comics that feel like they were designed in a focus group of people who miss Homestuck or early Questionable Content.The creeping sense that "indie" now just means "lower budget version of the same nostalgia IP slop."None of this means creators are bad for wanting stability or profit. People need money to live. But profit becomes a filter, and that filter pushes creators toward what already feels familiar and safe.
>>153566741Indie is really just industry cucks doing the same thing but without 8ndustry backing.The real world and needing to build an auduence humbles them quick. Where they only had to toe the ARTEEST line and kiss the right ass/fuck the right people before. Now they have to priduce something for an audience or build one. Look at how alex hirsch ruined every project he touched.And "Bryke" fucked up the golden goose with avatar The best indies are people who work a dayjob, interact with normies but have a foothold in a large organic fandom or relatively closeknit community. They oft cant or worse dont know how to soeak to a large normie audience with their work. And dont know how to sell to their audyence.Lol"Muh 30 minute toy commerciaks" They WISH they could create a 30 minute toy commercial or merch opportunitues. As for excusing disney and paramount with "think of the sharegolders" fucking bullshit. They shit out sequel bait because they are low talent scumbags with open obvious contempt for the audience.
>>153562888This was in like 2001 a decade ahead of that trend really taking off.
>>153562888Trips of shut the fuck up, guy
>>153566741Originality takes effort and a journey, not just throwing your OCs on kickstarter. Chasing trends for “easy success” is giving up on that journey and most artists don’t want to accept they’ll never have ideas people care about. They’re undermining that desire then.>>1535670771. That’s not 4chan culture retard, invoking trips means a post is good.2. You obviously felt called out on having no ideas beyond this. You may think anonymity saves you from embarrassment but it will catch up to you. Jesus said so.
>>153567077>>153567171Oh and 3. Did you see that post and have a desperate desire to think someone won against me?Big projects have decades of effects on the field, as Catholics intuitively understand, unlike overgrown children.
>>153567171>>153567190Christcuckie go away
>>153565685sticks is cute and funny
>>153562391>>153563813how is any of them either?>>153563279this
Hes right though. Wastelandia is a prime example of an ed edd eddy but they're not mean to each other
>>153567326I've never seen eene but if you're telling the truth the eds are all wagies or art students
>>153566828> The best indies are people who work a dayjob, interact with normies but have a foothold in a large organic fandom or relatively closeknit community.Which “best indies” are you referring to?
>>153566741This could all be fixed with universal basic income
>>153562021Kind of seems like the bigger problem is that this faggot has extremely limited points of reference.
>>153562021most indie shows want to have some super complicated lore that just makes them look pretentious, then actually interesting
Cuz indie animation is full of talentless hacks that couldn't land anything after attending sheridan college.No wonder anime is cleaning house in the west cuz all we produce is slop
>>153562021
>>153567316I don't think we've given OP enough shit for clearly posting his own fucking twitter post.
>>153564550What did I say? Don't reply to me when you clearly have no understanding of what I'm talking about. Your non-sequitur pseudo-intellectual crap is what requires no intelligence you hopped up egomaniac schizo. Maybe read a fucking book for a change instead of spending your entire life being a terminally online NEET.
>>153568296You’re sure you’re not projecting considering how many gay sailor moon nostalgia projects/etc there are?
>>153568636>lost his mind screaming insultsSo mature and sophisticated!Keep it up and artists will whine about my emails
>>153562895There's other kinds of movies too, like>director's not-at-all concealed narcissistic allegory about their gay childhood>the director's semi-autobiographical "intergenerational trauma" story
>>153568654>>lost his mind screaming insults>So mature and sophisticated!Says to guys who said all this>Don’t jack yourself off because you have social clout with artists who’re probably going to fail. Pulling out corny ass “durrr there’s only 7 stories” defenses requires no intelligence.Which is nothing but insults. There is nothing here of substance.>Keep it up and artists will whine about my emailsSee; "hopped up egomaniac," and thanks for proving my point. Go ahead and email as many people as you want; they will just end up in the bin or being added to the spam filter. What kind of broken brain do you have that would lead you to believe this could possibly matter to anyone in any context? Also, this is extremely "mature and sophisticated," and not at all like a child throwing a fit because he didn't get his way.That was sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell. I know it's hard for someone like you to read between the lines, what with your literacy problems.
>>153568728Careful now. Rile him up too much and he's going to email some guy about how mean you are
>>153564721I can't imagine losing at life this badly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcxx8W-vgU
>>153568448TRVTH
>>153568728Yes there is: the 7 stories thing is a corny cliche easy to parrot that requires no expertise. And that was after you began freaking out over criticism.The rest just seems like projection. And “egomaniac” is code for “has originality.”
>>153568654Why do you never send me emails?
>>153562021Because indie does not mean original. A lot of projects are made like whatever is popular because they want to sell.Another factor I think is Californian art colleges impressing upon new students specific artstyles as a way to make them popular.
>>153562888We still get those, we bare bears and apple and onion, although it would be bad if they was more popular.
>>153565685When did tails have dyslexia?
>>153562391Anything by meatcanyon
>>153566741I think the issue is exactly when you said it's lower budget franchise slop. An aspect of indie works is that it's supposed to be a small enough scale to afford to be a failure, that you can try. When you look around you'll see a lot of franchises were originally indie and a company out of nowhere noticed them and took it to bigger projects. Whether it'd the economy or the rise of public funding it seems like everyone has forgotten the concept of being small enough to be able to afford failure or it's become too expensive to even try small projects.
>>153565685who was the gay friend
>>153562021Because Millennials copy what's popular and don't make anything original. The indie scene was also infiltrated by these same people and are trying to get the same TV cartoon slop greenlit by communities with 98 percent of them not even reaching their goal. And then they wonder why they're being replaced with AI, they always produce low quality content that loses money and Studios get even cheaper screwing everyone else. But hey at least they were "diverse and inclusive" right? Made yourselves feel good for 15 min and realized that doesn't sell and now studios don't even wanna hire your retarded ahh. Maybe instead of insulting people and putting others down who don't follow the same views you do maybe wasn't good for the entire industry was it?I am anticipating this downfall of Western Animation and I don't feel bad at all for the people who are getting screwed when the entire thing implodes on itself.
>>153569294>Californian art colleges impressing upon new students specific artstylesThey don't do this. The people who think that have never actually been to any school and simply take the fact that John K used the term "CalArts" to pejoratively describe the art style of The Iron Giant as evidence that there are courses taught on beanmouth or some shit.
>>153569751Nobody fucking cares that John K coined the term. This is such a baseless deflection I don’t know why anyone bothers to repeat it.
>>153569630>it's supposed to be a small enough scale to afford to be a failurethat has never been a requirement of indie media throughout the history of indie media. The Terminator was an indie film. All Dogs Go To Heaven was an indie film. Pulp Fiction was an indie film. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was an indie film.
>>153569784>licensed movie adaptation was an indie film
>>153569780it's the only reason I can think of that people think that schools are responsible for imposing stylistic restraints. Again, nobody is teaching beanmouth 101 and professors aren't coercing students into drawing chibi style characters.
>>153569828>idiot doesn't know what licensing means
>>153569118>And “egomaniac” is code for “has originality.”The irony
>>153569630The Tracey Ullman Simpsons shorts would unironically be a good bar to aim for
>>153569377The baby version of we bare bears was actually popular with little girls. So was the indie cartoon bee and puppycat. But the former was dumped and the latter went full foid.
>>153569855>The $13.5 million budget for the 1990 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie primarily came from Hong Kong-based producer Raymond Chow of Golden Harvest, with additional funding and distribution support from New Line Cinema.I was wondering where they got such an amount of money.
They wanna replicate the vidya success which itself infamously relied heavily on Playstation 1/SNES/N64 nostalgia but that worked because using the "nostalgic" graphics was as much a budgetary choice as an artistic one and people understood that.So it let a bunch of amateurs go crazy with gameplay mechanics that were still feasible on lower budgets.You can't fucking do that with animation, If anything, an indie animation boom like that would be>Family guy style low budget animated sitcoms/SFM and Blender animations>But a lot of good writing, humor, acting and art.
>>153562021>wow thing is like thing that I personally recognize >almost like everything is a remix all the way back to the fucking dawn of humanity>let me complain about unoriginality!
>>153570130Right. Just because something is low budget doesn’t mean it’s indie. It just means it’s a cheap piece of shit product, like TADC.
>>153570193"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun"-Ecclesiastes 1:9 NIV
>>153570130Anon, flash prerty much made animation mainstream and accessible decades ago. You can make a full series with a free copy of flash 8 including free musinc sound effects and cheap visual effects. Hell space ghost and aqua teen hunger force was made with a total budget of what you can find in a couch cushion and a dimebag.
>>153570326>space ghost and aqua teenThat software they were using was not cheep. I’d say those crappy forgotten Canadian cartoons using Flash is more cheap than that.
>>153562021What shows are they even referring to? Is it stuff on the same two big Youtube channels that people only mention whenever indie cartoons are brought up?
>>153569911There’s no irony. The unspoken rationale is “no one could possibly be so original without having a massive ego.”I’m an artist and my selling point is stories and art you can’t get without me, so there’s another reason.>>153569751They have a mentality of “learn what’s popular”, Beanmouth was popular among the artists (but not the audience) so they were taught to learn it. I’ve also seen them studying Beanmouth shows in school, absurdly.
>>153570039yes. what's your point?
With smiling friends gone what is even left? Don't like hazbin, the tranny circus is alright but not my thing.
>>153570465Murphy and Mitzi. It’s pretty nice and simple. Maybe one day it will get picked for a show. I think that would be neat.
>>153570326You can tell how accessible animation is by who makes most of it
>>153570465Smiling Friends wasn't indie
>>153570463https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Sky_Golden_Harvest
>>153570544>Golden Harvest was listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange in 1994TMNT was released in 1990, desu.
>>153562021Wanna know something even more discouraging?I have a friend who is a professor of animation, character design, and creative writing. He once shared the ideas that were coming out of his class at the university he teaches at, and almost every single one that he heard was basically a regurgitation of The Owl House with a minor switcheroo.
>>153562021>Why are so many indie pilots unoriginal?Genuinely creative people have difficulty getting along with others on projects because they think and work in unorthodox ways, so they usually work alone or in very small groups. And on the other side of things statistically, art communities skew towards mediocrity because they're a larger demographic of trend followers. Social media actively filters out visionaries.
>>153570539I meant cartoons in general
>>153570572Clerks is more of an independent movie than TMNT. We all know why.
>>153570629The kids in undergrad are like 18 - 21 years old. Most students have really fucking stupid ideas that are copies of their heroes. This goes for all art forms including fine art, music, film, etc. There are always a few rare exceptions, but for the most part, people studying at the undergrad level are still honing technical craft and haven't really found a unique artistic voice yet. They're still at the "emulation" phase, albeit they're starting to find some level of mastery. It usually takes a few years of baking post-grad to start finding your own path. Now actually being able to work on those ideas is quite another thing. Unfortunately the ideas that do the best with execs AND with crowdfunders are rehashing of shit people have seen before.
>>153570629>>153570683>The blind are now leading the blind.
>>153570738Clerks is certainly lower budget and scrappier. But saying that something is "more" or "less" indie is like saying that rye is more whiskey than bourbon.
>>153570790TMNT had to get funding before filming. Clerks was entirely self funded and Smith very much ran the risk of lifelong debt until Miramax bought the film, after it was filmed, edited and screened at Sundance. Most of the wide release budget is from the music licensing.
>>153570941yes, and both films are "indie". I think the problem is that anons conflate indie with low-budget which can't always be used interchangeably. However, because the two terms are intrinsically linked in their mind (no matter how erroneously), they consider the films that have a higher budget as "less indie". That's ridiculous. Films are either independent or they aren't. How scrappy the production had to be is another issue entirely.
>>153562021An untruth. There is also Sci-Fi food vendor.(Spice Runner, Sunny Side Down, Intergalactic Noodles...)
>>153570753>It usually takes a few years of baking post-grad to start finding your own path.The problem is that now with the social media eco system they get a flood of positive reinforcement for the crappy half baked ideas they would otherwise grow out of. Online spaces easily create the illusion of a fanbase before you've really earned one and it causes young artists to double down on mistakes instead of re evaluating.
>>153562391>Wastelandiajunk who cares>helluva bosskinda tragic considering how much time and money has been poured into it that none went into it, I'll give you this one is hindered by its dialogue>lackadaisy not even interested in this one idk>mr beastkill yourself for letting me know this exists>kogi dont think its that bad
>>153571310I think it’s because the layperson assigns “indie” a specific connotation separate from “independent” in most creative fields
>>153570629Tbf, animation is fundamentally taught that way. Students are taught to copy by rote before they’re encouraged to invent because the craft is so complex and technical, they would kinda have to come in with prior art training ($$$) to get the most out of it.
>>153571626Sure. It's also why we have a glut of terrible information coming from youtuber gurus who teach people how to do shit despite having no fucking idea how to do it themselves (which is why they became a youtube guru instead of, you know, actually doing the thing). On the other hand, a lot of those shitty ideas end up getting funding because the same people giving those artists positive reinforcement are also the types to donate to campaigns. I think a bigger problem is that the people who complain the most about the state of media aren't particularly pro-active. They won't take a chance and start trying to make something that fills the gap that they see in contemporary media. They are afraid of being shitty at something and don't want to endure being ridiculed while they hone their skills. What they've ended up doing is internalizing the critical voice they put out into spaces like /co/ so when they think about making something, they hear their own voice telling them how stupid it is. They're also not the type of person who will typically fund anything either. They want to wait for other people to make stuff and other people to fund it, and then complain about how it's not what they would have wanted. Being dissatisfied with the current state of media can be a good thing if it motivates people to start making things they wished existed.
>>153571767>deciding words mean something else and making it true through brute force misuseThat's some Kardashian bullshit and the people who do that whilst complaining about "normies" should fucking know better.
>>153571857I mean, it means the same thing, but the diminutive is what connotes the “scrappiness” that led to months of /co/ splitting hairs back and forth so it’s a vernacular that persists regardless of my personal opinions on the matter.
>>153562021So there's something similar I've noticed recently and have been trying to articulate after reviewing the massively generic uninspired youtuber "manga" Monsters we make. I believe these generic projects are the way they are because they're made by narcissists who only want the "celebrity" of having an ip rather than actually telling a story. So they do what the popular thing does to be popular whereas people with a story to tell are interested in things outside of themselves and experiences that feel fresh.
>>153571815This is literally how you study anything, not just animation. You learn from stuff that came before you, and then apply that to the direction you want to head in afterwards.
>slightly paranoid my pilot is going to be received as derivative slopI mildly dread the day some random anon decides to share it here and I find read the thread
>>153571910>>153571833Where are the people with a story to tell who are willing to see it through then?
>>153571928*Find the thread talking about it
>>153571931why can't it be you?
>>153571928What’s your pilot?
>>153571940Why can’t it be you?
>>153564824Is it a surprise CKND was picked over it? The pilot was just annoying and dated. Horrible introduction is a guy just getting his first cellphone and being exited about it and annoying people with it who already have one and he's just late to the party. It sucks.
>>153571925In mediums like music, writing, theater, dance, fine art, and design, you spend as much or more of your training time inventing your artistic voice as you do on studies and rote technique. Because animation takes a long time and may require you to learn about some of those crafts on top of the animation itself, you spend a lot more time doing rote assignments compared to a fine artist or actor in a 4 year degree, with time to make fewer “hireable” portfolio pieces than another art major, often banking on the thesis film to establish a career. It’s not necessarily a bad thing to prioritize that, because most animation jobs need you to practice solid technique more than creative voice and expect that that will develop in time regardless.
>>153571931>Where are the people with a story to tell who are willing to see it through then?Buried under piles of crap, and I truly cannot provided a clear solution to filter through it all to find those diamonds. You have to go through one by one because nobody will promote something that either isn't already popular or made by someone they view as a "friend".
>>153568279Yeah, with UBI then we'd all be billionaires like Zimbabwe in the 2000s.
>>153568448While I dont disagree with your pic related thats just the reality of making your own kind of story. Im not defending the artists or saying that you should like those shitty pitches, but its easy to say "Just make something that will appeal to kids" but the reality is that most artists by the very nature of the medium have to be isolated most of the fucking time and are in their own head. You can only hope to find someone who is willing to open themselves up to differnt people and their experiences(and also pray that their charismatic but thats optional given the record of weirdos in the industry) cause otherwise the tendency of artists is to jerk off by their lonesome or with their art friends who would also just jerk off by themselves and not bother to ever learn to make something with an audience. Hell some of these fucks might not even ever learn to sell to their own niche.
>>153572142Man there’s a tale as old as the internet. It fucking sucks that this is more prevalent than ever.
>>153568448If only the economy could support both commercial art and passion projects plentifully
>>153572063>In mediums like music, writing, theater, dance, fine art, and design, you spend as much or more of your training time inventing your artistic voice as you do on studies and rote techniqueThe training for an animator just gets condensed into a few short years comparatively, but for a lot of art forms (dance and music especially), you start your training at a VERY young age. For a lot of people who are realistically competitive at the professional level, that starts as a toddler. You spend the majority of your time drilling historical exercises and rep because there's hundreds of years of pedagogy informing the practice.
>>153572103>Buried under piles of crapand yet the AI fags think that AI will make that better. In reality, it's just going to create heaps more shit to wade through to find any gems.
>>153570130It's weird how people think that cartoons or comics can copy the indie game boom, as if they don't understand that indie games are pretty much universally carried by their gameplay, with a few exceptions.Cartoons tend to attract a singular audience, and it's the same kind of people who obsess over shit like Undertale/Deltarune and FNAF.Namely, autistic tweens and teens and the occasional autistic third worlder.
>>153572142>>153572206Animation especially tends to collect those weirdos because you have to be pretty fucking crazy to dedicate your life to drawing minor variations of the same exact fucking thing several dozen times just to get a few seconds of work done. People wonder why animators are so fucking crazy...it's because the sane people quit pretty early on.
>>153570629It's mostly because the only people going into animation in the west are the kind of people who were watching shit like TOH as kids.
>>153562391>supposed to answer question>just lists a bunch of unrelated pilots
>>153572268Yes and in animation the equivalent is the person who started drawing as a child, had prior art training and comes to art school with a portfolio of strong drawing fundamentals and personal projects or internet profile already. By comparison the education is focused on trade prep over creating artists due to how careers work in the commercial art world. You are what you repeatedly do, the people who make creativity a habit stand out because it’s not built into the structure. Music is probably the most similar craft to train in, in terms of the sheer work on fundamentals.
The animation industry is taken over by coomers, theatre kids and sociopathic idiots. We’re in the beginning stages of all of this crumbling infrastructure. By the end of the decade, the business model will be completely different than what it has been for the last 15 years. Everybody knows it’s unsustainable, especially the executives. Is it any wonder AI will replace all these niggers? Only a select few will change the course of action, possibly for the better. Only time will tell.
>>153571986I'm a schizo about announcing my ideas too soon. But I plan to make an announcement thingy that will release this month. Will probably hard to pin which one is mine since there's so many indie pilots getting announced this month , that and my thing might fly under the radar. If it doesn't, I'll be dreading reading the /co/ thread
>>153572419>the person who started drawing as a childnot really. When you start violin or piano at the age of 3, you are working on etudes and scales. When you start drawing as a kid, it's super happy fun time. We're mostly in agreement here. I'm just feeling kind of combative and pedantic.
>>153572596You sound like someone I know.
>>153572596hey man good luck on your project! i hope i will be able to see it ^^ don't worry about the negative opinions most of what this guys have to say mean nothing because its in bad faith/ignorance.
>>153572720>^^ don't worry about the negative opinionsyou and your heckin epic wholesome chungus attitude are a part of the reason why the indie scene is so deeply devoid of tastes and standards and is so full of puddle-deep flavorless slop in a shiny wrapper made by people who expect a pat on the head just for the mere act of making something regardless of its value
>>153572949There’s a term for this. It’s called a “circle jerk”. Pretty accurate.
>>153562021Aren’t most indie animations just adventure time but gayer?
>>153572464Is that Jason Bunny?
>>153568448This is the core of the problem, but alongside this issue you also have people who overshoot the scope for potential projects because they want the prestige and attention that comes from making a movie or an animated series. Can't just a one-off short or whatever. It has to be a series. And the series has to have the potential to go on for multiple seasons, and the story has to have deep lore and foreshadowing that takes dozens of episodes to pay off a super duper complex meta-narrative/ARG/grand social commentary.So you get animated movies that could have been shorts and cartoon series that could have been comics, comics that should have been novels, or even just a single page thing or a pin-up of a character design with some notes jotted in the margins. But all of that is a symptom of people wanting to create so they can be famous and wealthy more than they care about the quality of their creations. If they could be given a huge sack of money and then have someone else make their "dream show" for them, most of these types would do it in a heartbeat, even if they didn't get to personally draw or animate or write anything for it. Meaning these people don't actually have much to say with their work.
>>153572261Animu does this
I'll be honest, I don't really watch modern indie cartoons outside of Space King since I'm an old person now, so my barometer is shit like Salad Fingers, Madness, Retarded Animal Babies, Blockhead, etc. etc.I assume it's just that modern indie cartoons are mostly made by people who wanted to get into the actual industry, so they're just the same gay cartoons that the industry people were making but slightly gayer, slightly more raunchy with the cursing, and cheaper-looking.Do modern indiefags do stuff like anthologies? I liked those old Rageous 7 animations back in like the late 2000s/early 2010s on Newgrounds, especially that one animation that used one of the songs from Neotokyo since that game's soundtrack is fucking killer.
>>153572103Okay I thought about a theoretical system to filter slop from gems. An "anti nepo" list based on user votes that requires you to write a 2 paragraph minimum unique(no copy paste) in-depth critique about what your promoting/voting. If you want something seen you have to point out its worst flaws in a genuine way. A system that prevents brigading and review bombing in either direction so some douchebag e-celeb can't just flood the system to boost or undermine whatever they want, and lets potential audience members know what they're getting into.
>>153573021>Can't just a one-off short or whatever.>>153573084Do modern indiefags do stuff like anthologies?Fortunately there are some popular animators and cartoonists that still do these things, mostly on YouTube in the form of skits, either parody or satire. Lots of people are still making Madness shorts so there’s that. As for anthologies, Freedom Toons is about to come out with Twisted Plots.
>>153573347>Do modern indiefags do stuff like anthologies?If they were smart, they would.
>>153572605Why I spoke to similarity and not sameness; at 3 music or dance can be super happy fun times for a future artist, and art at 6 or 8 can be serious studies, and those music majors may be less proportionally rare than those art majors at top schools. You’re right that it’s a different playing field for a certain tier of career - my point in comparing mediums is that both take many more years of training than their degree program and most animators don’t arrive with the amount of foundational work a music major has done, let alone the habit of original composition. I don’t mind, we got as far as we needed to.
>>153573347Anthologies have been tossed to the side, now that everyone is ripping off Asian/Anime style of story telling. Everything doesn't need to be a grand epic.
>>153563241The amount of tropes and plots can be made arbitrarily small by being reductionist enough: Cave men didn't dream of robots, but you can pretend there's nothing new under the sun by drawing parallels to stories of bronze golems or whatever, with the reduction snipping off connections like transhumanism or Freud's notion of the prosthetic god - things we'd currently consider important.You can even go so far as a binary. "Everything is political" for example often gets boiled down to "either something subverts the status quo or it is implicitly supporting it by not subverting it" for example.The real constant, from a historical perspective, is innovation. From Hemingway crushing long and complicated sentences with snappy prose to The Da Vinci Code paving the way for a landscape of lightning-quick plots and chapter-ending cliffhangers, to the fucking weebs over at /a/ dropping fucking stat blocks in the middle of their number-go-up stories, we've never stopped moving.Corporate consolidation has ramped up, market analysis is at its peak, the Internet has shrunk the world to a global village. The results are the death of colorful, weird cars in favor of monochrome wind tunnel winners, every artist referencing the first few Google/Pinterest hits, and franchise entries dominating movie and game charts. And at the same time, people's tastes have never been more diverse, and blockbuster monoculture grasp has been shattered like it hasn't in a long time.If you're a suit, your strength is reheating leftovers with billion dollar budgets. If you're a creative, your strength is discovering untapped niches. Mix these up, and you'll be fighting an uphill battle.
>>153562021Don't forget all the ones that revolve around hell, but it's not evil, or anthros sharing a world with anthro fruit and vegetables, for some reason.
>>153573725>Hanna-Barbera levels of ripping yourself off.
>>153569530My hatred for him knows no bounds
>>153566592>
>>153572633I don't think I know you>>153572720True but this is the first time I'm undertaking a project like this. I'm too self conscious about my stuff but I'm doing it anyways. That, and I'd feel existential about /co/ discussing my concept. I want to say it's everything /co/ has been asking for in a cartoon but idk. >>153572949You're not wrong, I've seen some bland pilots get glazed but it's obvious it didn't capture the audience fixation. Otherwise there would be a fandom.
>>153574043That sounds pretty neat. How long you been working on this?
>>153571910>white woman pseudoscienceim sure
>>153571833>>153571931Right here watch my animation https://youtu.be/7ZbW8gdfY0M?si=AD_WFnaQmXurJVIW
>>153562848So many kids would've been unable to relate to Kitty Bobo having a girlfriend
>>153574724The kids that were watching that probably still thought girls had cooties.
>>1535620211. This guy is retarded, literally no indie cartoon is even remotely comparable to Ed, Edd, n Eddy2. What would you consider an original idea then, Mr. Smartypants? Go ahead, pitch me an idea that isn't derivative of anything, then when you're done pitching me that idea, go make it yourself, be the change you wanna see in the world
>>153572130>noooo keep being a field niqqer slave under capitalism fellow goy - I mean big dick Aryan supermanlolno
>>153574801>Today on /co/: another autistic grown man gets mad at a twitter screenshot and tells the monitor what for>More at 11
>>153574804>niqqerYou’re anonymous. You can speak without censors you dumb fucking niggerfaggot spic, kill yourself.
>>153574867I was talking to OP who presumably agrees with the screenshot, that's why in point 1 I said "this guy" and not "you"
>>153573554> art at 6 or 8 can be serious studiesHow common is it for child artists to have private lessons? Is there an equivalence of Suzuki method for drawing? Dancers are even worse since their career intends to start ~15-16 and it’s pretty much over by the age of 30. > let alone the habit of original compositionNot all musicians compose. A lot of serious instrumentalists only play rep.
>>153574911(me)DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS
>>153574911>I was talking to OP>who presumably agrees with the screenshotYou need to lurk moar m8
>>153574900>thinks he's anonymous on 4chanFive Eyes, the FSB, Majestic 12, Chinese military intelligence, the Illuminati and the Freemasons all beg to differ naive-anon.
>>153574911Are you old enough to be on this site?
>>153570629"woman falling in a portal and she enter to this planet of witches speaking American English" is the default template of western cartoons.
>>153563241>Since its release in 1949, The Hero with a Thousand Faces has influenced millions of readers by combining the insights of modern psychology with Joseph Campbell’s revolutionary understanding of comparative mythology. In these pages, Campbell outlines the Hero’s Journey, a universal motif of adventure and transformation that runs through all of the world’s mythic traditions. He also explores the Cosmogonic Cycle, the mythic pattern of world creation and destruction.
>>153574968I'm sorry, I only use this site once in a blue moon when I'm curious what the discussion is on something specific>>153575004Yes
>>153575198>I'm sorryNo m8, I was warning you for your own good. Don't get too involved with twitter screens thread and low-effort posts like that, they mean nothing to the poster, so they should mean nothing to you too. Engage with them if you want, but it's pointless to get upset over them.
>>153574284Several months. Been slacking but I'm at a point where I can make one of those little announcements like everyone else is doing. I have enough built up. It's nothing too fancy of an announcement. My project has lore because I am autistically into worldbuilding but I know I have to center my protagonists.
>>153571928If you’re not a lolcow then you should be fine. Anon probably won’t even care and the thread will be buried unless there’s a female lead they can lewd to or something.
>>153570629Scary
>>153566592He's a fanHe just thinks the IP has stagnated hard and honestly I agree
>>153571928People here call everything that's even mildly popular slop, if anything you should take it as a badge of honor
>>153575672a quick gander at the fanbases should tell you why its slop
>>153575794Yeah, because it has one
>>153574621This was a fun watch, got some good laughs out of itAre you going to develop it more over time?
>>153575862Honestly yeah I have a whole list of episode ideas I've made for it I just need to work on. I've thought about animating this animatic it fully, but I'm the kind of person who just likes to quickly iterate and get my ideas out, much to internet peoples' dislike.
>>153575956I think you needed more time to cook. Nothing about it really stood out. I think you should do what Jhonen Vasquez did and hone your drawing skills first with a comic, because if you look at his storyboard for the pilot, it came out really good.
>>153575862>Hands are backwards.
>ITT
>>153576016The Invader Zim pilot? Also good critique, but I have no access to a computer. This was literally made with taking pictures and putting them into Capcut>>153576028Lmao I never noticed that
>>153576066don’t forget this
Bump
in the industry you had to prove yourself, have a work ethic and learn to adapt.now any hack with a deviantart account can get a kickstarter for their showman character cartoon
Back then, this was the best indie cartoon on YouTube—and it still is. Coodoo17 was the fucking man. Take all those Glitch and Spindlehorse shows and Prohibition Cats or whatever, you can take those cartoons and shove ‘em up your fuckin’ ass! BRING BACK S.S.S.! BRING BACK SPEAKONIA SPRITE ANIMATIONS!
>>153562021>xitter thread
This indie trend is gonna die off as quickly as it sprouted. This isn’t the 90s anymore. Anybody and their grandma can make a cartoon on the internet nowadays. It doesn’t mean jack shit if you’re talented or not. You’re just gonna be another face in the crowd. At the very least, distribute it somewhere else besides the internet you fucking loser. Pussy. Go outside and talk to people. You might gain REAL opportunities.
>>153578679>distribute it somewhere else besides the internet you fucking loser
>>153578856If they go out and talk to real people in the real world instead of just casting their fate to the wind like a delusional influencer, then they’ll eventually reach someone who will give you the green-light, the budget, and the distribution. But hey, some people wanna do it the hard way—the stupid way.Just look at the creator of Brackenwood. Nobody remembers him, right? Yet his skills put him in Disney’s studios. Vivziepop had to spend well over a decade embarrassing herself online for the world to see just to end up on Jeff Bezo’s couch, and now she wants to revive Zoophobia? What a dumb bitch KEK.
>>153572261guise le ecoonoomi is to blame brah it's totally not my incapability to produce anything of worth trust me brah
>>153579044Still not buying that you don't see exactly what's wrong with that statement
>>153579219I made my point so I don’t know what more you want from me.
>>153579264I want you to admit that nobody is retarded enough to believe what you just said and you're trolling
>>153579438People tell me all the time the key to success in the industry is connections and a lot of ass-kissing. Are they wrong?
>>153579469Of course not, that's not the reason what you said is retarded
>>153579515Your grammar sucks, dude. I can’t make out what you’re saying.
>>153579523I'm saying I fucked your mom
>>153579529So? Who hasn’t?
>>153579533True, but I also fucked your gramma, she was very grateful about it too
>>153579545I haven’t spoken to her in 10 years. And the other one died 8 years ago.
>>153579555Died getting busted in half by my cock HEYOOOOOOOOOO
>>153579584Wouldn’t surprise me kek. She had problems.
>>153579612Yeah she did, she told me all about them before I agreed to be her fortuitously-endowed merciful angel
>>153579627Hope you’re not suicidal. That’s what happened to the last guy she was with. By the way, have you ever had your blood tested?
>>153579640I don't have blood
>>153579655You might have trace amounts of blood in your syphilis system.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis
>>153579667I don't have a syphilis system
>>153579675You do.
>>153579692I don't have internals
>>153579709Oh. That sucks.
>>153579726Don't knock it till you try it, I save a LOT of time and get SO much more done not having to stop to eat or shit or piss, if you can get your internals removed I recommend it
>>153579763Well if I was planning to shit and piss in my computer I would empty out my computer first but if I’m not gonna be shitting and pissing then what’s the point in doing that?
>>153579788
>>153579809What about your balls?
>>153579840They're balltacular!
>>153562888slice of life is one of the most popular anime themes retard, also hey arnold was mega popular, as was Rocko
>>153572464>The animation industry is taken over by coomers, theatre kids and sociopathic idiots.It's been like this since the 1930s
>>153569686Dave was confirmed to be gay in a late season 2 episode, turning down sticks because he doesn't date women>>153569495in sonic boom
>>153580951No
>>153576962>this was the best indie cartoon on YouTube>picrelno, that wrong
>>153580951More like the 70s
>>153580480Have you ever destroyed your house in a vacuum, been lost in the Bermuda Triangle or met a train ghost. Do lower class kids have giant fancy bedrooms??You’re clearly detached from reality due to your media consumption
>>153582152i lost a mobile home to a tornado, does that count?
I just want to actually run my own animation studio. I have no experience or money so I'd probably suck at it but it'd be nice to have a say in what is and is not greenlit.
>>153581529No, it is right. Dumbass.
WHAT THE FUCK YOU TWO ARE TALKING ABOUT???
