No.

>>153566989
No, it deserved more hate.

>>153566989
No, people that are so fucking terrified of criticism that they need to turn everything into a joke should not be working in entertainment.

>>153566989
Haven't seen it

>>153566989
It wasn’t hated enough. Is this how Castlevania fans felt when they got their Netflix show?

>>153567118
>Is this how Castlevania fans felt when they got their Netflix show?
Just from my circle of discussion it was more mixed with how people took seasons 1 and 2 of Castlevania both as adaptation and as it's own thing. And I would still say that even with it's problems that both seasons are still worth watching. Season 3 is when they lost the plot entirely and I don't think I've seen anyone claiming they are well written make good arguments for why.

>>153566989
what makes the former more sincere than the latter?
if anything, a real person is much more likely to talk casually rather than have a whole ass speech prepated

>>153567347
>a real person
This is why cartoons are a dead industry.

>>153567347
It's increasingly common for characters to just flippantly disregard major topics as a sign that the writers don't care about the source/past materials. I will always point to Luke Skywalker throwing a lightsaber over his shoulders in TLJ as the epitome of how some people just shouldn't write for established franchises because of this mindset.

>>153567357
whats wrong with naturalistic dialogue?
people will not be the most articulate beings nor will they always be so eloquent, and yes people do swear a lot in real life

>>153567406
>naturalistic dialogue
This is why cartoons are a dead industry.

>>153567406
Nobody cares about your retarded opinions, cuck

>>153567416
>naturalistic dialogue equates a dead industry
you are not making sense

>>153567406
It could be naturalistic and still not try and shit on, and belittle, Sparda, the demon world, etc.

>>153567422
If you don't understand the connection then it's because you're one of the people who killed the industry.

>>153567437
>If you don't understand the connection
god forbid people talk informally rather than have prepared, perfect speeches

>>153567445
Yes, cuckfag

>>153567456
newsflash, people like it when people talk casually

>>153567445
The fact that this is the modern cartoon audience explains so much about the state of the industry.

>>153567462
Nice cope, retard

>>153567347
In the former, Lady is telling the story almost as though it is a wistful fairytale, which comes back to her final narration at the end of the game. It balances the over-the-topness of the events of the game with a specific hopeful melancholy: Dante and Lady regaining their humanity is like a fairy tale ending, despite the tragedy of Vergil. Lady is being motherly, which sets up a contrast with her conduct throughout the rest of the game and reveals her true underlying personality as someone very vaguely inspired by Mary.

What does show Lady have beyond being a generic feminist approved angry girlboss?

>>153567406
Text is not speech even when it is put into the mouths of characters in a story. It's still text. You are an illiterate philistine swine.

The issue is the Castlevania series wasn't hated enough. It shouldn't have even gotten this far

>>153567347
Real people can be sincere.
I'm sorry you've experienced life in such a limited capacity that you don't know that.

>>153567519
I genuinely regret having enjoyed those first Castlevania episodes at the time. By the second batch it was clear the entire thing was terrible, but by then the damage had been done.

>>153567445
She's literally telling a legend she knows.

>>153567535
>Real people can be sincere.
and talking informally does not mean insincere
people do drop a lot of swear words and use colloquialisms like "blah blah" while meaning it entirely
and people are sarcastic in real life, it would be equally insincere, or outright manufactured, to say that kind of dialogue is insincere

>>153567347
>>153567406
>>153567445
Yeah, fucking people and their stupid fucking formality. Super shitty of them to be honest, forcing their fucking rules on people like that. You ever meet someone that doesn't fuck with that shit? It's so fucking cool watching someone tear into uptight asshats and dickweeds. They go
>damn, that's some informality
and all the not-cool kids at the not-cool table fuck around long enough to find out. They're like
>shit, this guy profanes, what a badass!
It's super eendearing. It's the quietest, queerest, thing that's louder than any fucking loud thing could ever be. Get it?
[Just in case you don't get it, because you seem sort of stupid, I am mocking you, yes.]

>>153567347
Yeah real people are also more likely to be told to shut up when they're being cunts. Shut up.

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>>153567406
"Naturalistic dialogue" does not lend itself well to gravitas or really narrative in general. This sort of writing is inherently opposed to tone or dramatics. It undermines the entire narrative, takes the viewer out of the story. You are directly positioning things to look as unimportant and unserious as possible, how are you expecting anyone to care about this shit? With the example in the OP, all the audience knows in the Netflix adaptation is "there was a guy who betrayed the other demons but really you shouldn't care, it's not that important" rather than establishing the actual legend that plays in to the major conflict of the narrative and the backgrounds of the major characters
Furthermore, this sort of dialogue nukes characterization from orbit. When the author writes what they believe is "naturalistically" every fucking character becomes a foul mouthed quip machine, every fuckinh conversation sounds the exact fucking same. It's just none fucking stop fucking whedonism after fucking whedonism because that's how your fu king taught to write properly in Hollywood screenwriter class or some fucking shit.
Really this all speaks to a lack of books read under a writers belt, and a really poor understanding of what narrative is. Imagine Moby Dick by Ahab is saying fuck and shit every other sentence and making jokes about the whale

>>153567347
The former is written to entertain and be likeable.
The latter is written by some cowardly low talent asshoke who doesnt lije the source material, the genre and KNOWS they couldnt sell it if their life depended on it.

It doesnt read like a real person. It reads like something a dork who was never cool or really put themselves out there thinks a cool bad ass sounds like. And it comes off as immature tryhard bullshit that says we shouldnt believe in this work either.

They relegated out of touch assholery like this to the unlikeable side characters. Not a lead exolaining things to the audience.

>>153567546
and if you told the average person to recall a bit of ancient history, they would not recount it with the same clarity as a history book
they wouldnt say "oh pharoah ramses, the king of kings", they would say "ramses? like the pharoah guy from the bible?"
thats just closer to how most people would actually talk

>>153567568
>Yeah, fucking people and their stupid fucking formality
do you think everyone goes around rehearsing their words for the day?
and you intend to mock and yet I have heard people use far more swear words in the same space, so it is not even far from reality

>>153567593
You can just tell this nigga's an ESL zoomer.

>>153567593
Teachers don't teach like that. If you're doing the narration and want people to treat you seriously you talk like a human and not a cock bag.

>>153567590
>It undermines the entire narrative, takes the viewer out of the story.
why would people be taken out of the story by people who talk more like people?

> You are directly positioning things to look as unimportant and unserious as possible, how are you expecting anyone to care about this shit
we can take people perfectly seriously even when they are talking a stream of consciousness

>Imagine Moby Dick by Ahab is saying fuck and shit every other sentence and making jokes about the whale
i can imagine actual whalers taking the piss out on whales because of their hard job
so this is not a tall order

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>>153567561
If someone is that incinscere in real life, we assume they are dismissive and don't care about the subject matter they are talking about.
That wasn't the original intent at all. She's supposed to be showing enthusiasm for a legends she believes to be true due to her own personal experience. They literally reversed the intent just to be snarky.

>>153567593
On the other hand, I've never heard someone refer to Abraham Lincoln as "that guy that freed the slaves or whatever".

>>153567593
Good thing Lady isn't "the average person," and has been hearing the Legend of Sparda constantly since she was a child because of Arkham's obsession.

>>153567606
>If you're doing the narration and want people to treat you seriously you talk like a human and not a cock bag.
and a human being does not sound like shakespear or even a wikipedia article
if you ask someone about a historical event, especially one they are only passingly familiar with, you can expect them to simply gloss over most of the details and use words they use in every day life
if someone says "dude" a lot, then it would make more sense for him to refer to historical figures as such rather than suddenly develop a more refined vocabulary just for this instance

>>153567613
>why would people be taken out of the story by people who talk more like people?
Because if you're not going to take this seriously, why should I

>we can take people perfectly seriously even when they are talking a stream of consciousness
You can also talk like an adult


>i can imagine actual whalers taking the piss out on whales because of their hard job
Yeah and when they're talking about a giant doom whale they're not going to be treating it like a joke. They're going to be fear swearing and panicking.

>>153567613
>we can take people perfectly seriously even when they are talking a stream of consciousness
... do you even know what stream of consciousness is? Please don't just use terms your heard your AP lit teacher say once

>>153567613
She talks like an unlikeable cunt that some retard who couldnt hack it in a writing room thinks a bad ass talks like.
Its fucking grating
And in real life people who talk LIKE her are not liked nor do they gravitate to them. I emphasize like because no one IRL would talk like her without giving iff tryhard who will get you killed vibes. Let alone be any kind of leader.

>>153567561
NTA, but I believe you might be thinking anons here are confusing informality/naturalism with insincerity when they are not.
"whatever" "blah blah blah" "I guess" gas the connotation of informal AND insincere. Not to mention the structure makes it seem like she is disinterested in telling the story itself.
Here are two example confessions of love, because I love (you) anon.
> Anon, well I. Well I got to say I'm into you. Your eyes, your body - your personality, I just have this feeling when I look at you and you being with me that I gotta continue this anyway I can. Could you be with me?
> I was just thinking or whatever, and I thought we could go out. Blah blah blah all that romantic junk or something like that. S'what do you say Anon?
Now obviously you could make any prince charming or peon uncharming with the context of a story and how they deliever the lines could become one of the other. Yet, I am sure with the context clues ar your disposal you can tell one from the other.
XOXO,
Anon

>>153567637
>Because if you're not going to take this seriously, why should I
if you are talking outside the context of a speech to the masses or if you are on company time and talking to a superior, theres no reason to really change the way you speak

>You can also talk like an adult
and adults can and do talk like that

>Yeah and when they're talking about a giant doom whale they're not going to be treating it like a joke
they certainly will not be talking with long winded speeches about the nature of man either
so it isnt any more or less sincere to talk one way or another

This isn't real life. I am not watching reality. I am watching a story about demons and CUHRAZY action, it should be operatic not "Natural"

>>153567599
It's pretty obvious, foreigners always gravitate towards profanity because words like fuck can be used as a catch-all verb/noun. It's why they typically downplay etiquette and get defensive about it (cultural parasites don't want to be revealed).
>>153567633
Moron, you don't even understand your own point.

>>153567347
Because it doesn’t try to dismissively give information like a moody teenager trying to recite what their parents told them to their sibling.

>>153567698
No

>>153566989
No. Underhated, especially for the Adi Shankar school of "They're here for Male Lead, but the story is really about Female Lead."
It should be vocally hated, literarily hated, smeared with so much bile that never again will a project with that street shitter's fingers on it will be given a pass until he's well shut from it.

>>153567698
It's shit anon. The unserious flippant unnatural attemot to sound cool and bad ass failed miserably.
It's why american sci-fantasy and cartoon media is dead.

>>153567708
and a moody teenager can fully mean what they are saying without a hint of irony despite the barrage of "whatevers" and "as ifs"

>>153567724
Its resurrection starts with stories taking their own contents seriously.

>>153567707
>Moron, you don't even understand your own point.
my point is I do not see the use of casual or informal speech laden with swears to be any indicator of a lack of sincerity
people frequently talk just like that over serious topics without any intention to downplay, they simply default to their typical speech patterns

>>153567743
>my point is I do not see the use of casual or informal speech laden with swears to be any indicator of a lack of sincerity
NTA, but that's because you're not a native English speaker.

>>153567347
The used to teach rhetoric in schools.

>>153567728
Anon.
Teenagers are watching anime and media with sincere teenagers saying what they mean and giving those long winded poetic speeches.

They can fumble their words, be dismissive about things and curse. But not in place of actual emotional content.

This is fucking cowardice and incompetence hiding behind feaux realism.

>>153566989
It wasnt hated enough, since the second season wasnt canceled.

>>153567699
No they can't, they wouldn't use those words otherwise.

>>153567775
>sincere teenagers saying what they mean and giving those long winded poetic speeches.
and you can be equally, or more, sincere by talking like an actual teenager

>>153567806
Valley girls aren't teenagers, they're just a concept by Frank Zappa to sell that one song.

>>153566989
Why is she dressed in a sci-fi space police uniform

>>153567699
>it should be operatic not "Natural"
if its filled with crazy action, then they should be talking like 1980s action movie stars with puns and one-liners
and if someone actually tries speaking in faux-shakespear, then the response would be to machine gun them and then say a quip about sticking to theatre

>>153567806
But this is not sincere.
This is not earnest.
This is trash.

This is bad writing.

>>153567347
>This character clearly doesn't give a fuck about anything she's saying, that's sincere!
Just put a gun in your mouth

>>153567824
Because girl power and gross middie aged women hate attractive women.

This is a show for girls made by netflix of a male aimed IP. What do you think.

>>153567406
>whats wrong with naturalistic dialogue?
>people will not be the most articulate beings nor will they always be so eloquent, and yes people do swear a lot in real life
Fiction isn't real life and making something "realistic" doesn't make something better, unless you want to see characters taking bathroom breaks at least once an episode.
The rules of drama are there for a reason, because they've been refined to entertain and convey themes and messaging both effectively and in a compelling way.
If you want "realistic dialogue", go watch smiling friends where the naturalistic dialogue is used for humor and not drama.

>>153567406
>whats wrong with naturalistic dialogue?
>people will not be the most articulate beings nor will they always be so eloquent, and yes people do swear a lot in real life
If the character isn't going to be articulate then don't waste all of our time having them talk.

>>153567347
You talk casually about things you don't mind much.
The left one, while less "realistic" has the character take the fact that there's demons, a demon realm, a portal, and the resulting mayhem seriously.

The right only works if you assume the character is talking about fiction tropes you already know as opposed to a real danger which is not realistic at all because reality isn't fiction.

>>153567728
>yeah so dad uncle Roy raped me or whatever and blah blah blah I think I am pregnant or something
You are delusional.

>>153567724
Christ man I agree with you but you gotta get some new material instead of repeating the same line because you thought is was clever

"Naturalistic dialogue" doesn't necessarily mean the abomination on the right. Believe it or not, not everyone in real life talks like a half-literate teenager who thinks saying "fuck" a lot is cool.

>>153567743
You just don't get it, do you? You're arguing about dialogue structure, but you aren't seeing the content of what's being said. Everyone else is.

But also, yes, hearing a character swear every other word using "shit" and "fuck" is annoying, irritating, aggravating, teeth grating. If you're gonna have a character swear all the time, at least give it variety and make it fun.

>>153567888
Even they with their naturalistic dialogue don't sound shit like that.

>>153568749
"Entertainment media is deceased, rotten to the core. Filled with all these limp-wristed writers. It needs to be purged".

>>153567118
Finally some gets it!

>>153567313
Your circle of friends probably weren't fans of the games in the first place, the reason why DMC got hate right away vs Castlevania is because the few fans of the game negative reactions were drown by a sea of new people who didn't know better.

>>153568832
Yes

>>153567825
You have so little imagination.

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>153567613
you're intentionally being retarded and I hate you

>>153567825
i will pay you to never reproduce

>>153567406
>>153567590
One thing I wanna point out. I'd hardly call this naturalistic. It isn't even dialogue. It's narration.
And what qualifies as naturalistic dialogue varies very heavily by the situation. It sure as hell isn't constant sarcasm and irony.
Sometimes, it's characters stammering over each other and conversations being messier than usual. Something which works well in slice-of-life.

But in the context of someone who is in their professional setting, what we'd qualify to be naturalistic shifts greatly.
For instance, if a character is a medical researcher, they'll still talk in a very matter of fact tone but may have to pause a bit to figure out how to shift the tons of technical terms they know into layman's terms for a layman's character.

What we call "naturalistic dialogue" isn't simply about tone but is more about how people aren't perfect speakers.

Naturalistic dialogue is mostly "people don't go into speeches in real life", and "people DON'T have witty quips lined up for every situation."

And as it stands, it's realism.

You know, realism, the thing that works best in realistic settings.
The same kind of realism they kept trying to insert into fantastic settings in the 2010s based on the success of seeing it in realistic settings in the 2000s.

Resulting in turning the audience against the concept because of how misused it was being. DmC being an example.

>>153566989
Can't wait to see season 2 burn and die. Faggit Shankar needs to blow his fucking brains out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_FqVWNuLSY

Nice AMV

Was the one on the right written by a literal valley girl?

>>153566989
Right could pass as Lady telling the story at a bar while drunk off her ass and pissed off that Dante missed the child support payments again

>>153569969
Ironically, change "child support" to "debt related to covering for fiscal irresponsibility" and this is canon.

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>>153567347
>a real person is much more likely to talk
Mary was raised by Arkham and whatever woman was insane enough to get in bed with him.
Whatever friends of classmates she grew up alongside were not enough to temper her holstering a small arsenal to blast monsters and climb demonic structures until she could find and kill her father.

There's a reason we anonymously flock to escapist media discussion platforms and have threads about fictional characters like her instead of those like you.

She is not like one of you.
She would not talk like one of you.

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>>153570307
>hey, gurl, wanna go to my place 'n see my Sparda collection?
>who's Sparda?
>arkham 1 milisec later

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>>153566989
>/co/ autist pretends to understand DMC
Ahahahaha I bet OP can’t even understand spongebob

>>153571092
Cope

>>153571106
thrilling rebuttal, you really bested me!

I hope Lady shows some skin next season

>>153571153
Fuck off, shill

>>153567824
Because she's a cop

Shankar's big concept for Lady is that she's a captain commando reference but not nearly as fun and her squad is not exactly filled with as interesting designs as baby or ninja commando

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>>153568857
>Your circle of friends
I used a different phrase for a reason since it wasn't just people I knew but other forum posters.

I'd say that for what amounts to a loose adaptation of characters and events from SoTN, CVIII, and bits of CoD with a largely original plot it's still not out and out bad. The major things that are still in my mind were how I hated how they played up the church as evil across the whole series. But that's a Warren Ellis thing as from what I've seen he's pretty anti-religion. Also seems to be why Sypha was not a mage affiliated with the church and instead some new organization. I also can't forgive not getting Grant as a cast member and I hate that he's never been able to make a good comeback in the story. Jesus what they did to him in Judgement hurt. But everyone except maybe Cornell got shit redesigns. but overall I don't hate what we got.

It's not a perfect adaptation, I don't really expect these big productions for streaming services to be such. But I think it would be worth recommending the Seasons 1 and 2 to other CV fans with an asterisk attached to it.

>>153567347
>No one has EVER been sincere in the history of anything
>Every single person who has ever lived has talked in the exact same irony poisoned way we do
>If you disagree you're racist

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>>153571721
The biggest thing that struck me about the Castlevania show, and makes it unbelievable to me that so many people are like "it's good but not a good adaptation" is it feels like it was written by a 13 year old. And I don't just mean the "church bad" stuff, I mean in the more fundamental way it shows a complete lack of understanding about the world and history. Or even editing.

Pretty much everything about bald necromancer's arc is hilariously naive.
>Have you tried... being nice to people?
>the Romans killed the Greek philosophers because they were pagans
>the Church was bad because it was full of people who went TOO FAR in believing in God
Complete nonsense. Then there's all the weird pacing and editing issues. It would've played far better to not start off with Dracula and Lisa and instead introduce that latter. But we have to start off with that because it's of vital importance that everyone know Church Bad because they HATE heretics and also there's no magic. Everything about St. Germain's second appearance is botched too.
>oh wow, how did he get back here?
>he's acting suspicious but we know he's a cool dude
>oh never mind let's immediately interrupt the flow of the story to explain in detail what he's doing right now even though it doesn't fucking matter

On and on with this shit. Also every time anyone opened their mouth I died a little inside. Regardless of adaptation or tone or whatever, it was the stupidest, cringiest shit. At least the action was fun, but Christ. Apparently DMC doesn't even get that right.

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Ya know, if this armor design was used for an original series and had a bit more of spice to it I think it would actually be pretty good.

>>153574963
I mean if accentuate the curves a bit more and turn down the... well there's really not a polite way to put it, dykeness.

>>153575049
I meant the armor.

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>>153566989
Burn America to the ground.

>>153568749
>Anon says this on 4chan
>Where they think natural dialog is 'kys tranny troony faggot gay eat a dick retarded jew' is how people actually talk

>>153575165
Still natural

>>153567347
It's the difference between indicating that the whole legend of Sparda that Lady becomes embroiled in means something to her and indicating that she doesn't give a shit and would rather not have known any of them.

And Lady is definitely not the second case.

>>153567347
>what makes the former more sincere than the latter?
The way it's written.
>if anything, a real person is much more likely to talk casually rather than have a whole ass speech prepated
I'll just fix this for you real quick
>if anything, a real retard is much more likely to talk casually rather than have a whole ass speech prepated
Lady is not necessarily a retard. Shows written for retards can talk like that, but not everyone likes shows for retards.

>>153574963
It's kinda nice, but also looks toyish, dunno why.

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>>153567019
SPBP
Castlevania should have gotten more but neither gotten enough.

>>153567313
Season 1 was the only decent part. I'm not saying that was perfect or even a good adaptation but it was the only one with passible plot and good pacing.

People mistakenly believe Season 2 is good because it directly continues from season 1 so it had vestigial tardwrangling.

>>153576094
>but also looks toyish,
That’s good

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>>153566989
Also, can we stop pretending that Sincerity is the problem? It is shit here because it treating the entire premise of the series as a joke. However, it isn't like the shows would be magically be better when they aren't embarrassed by their shit writing.

>>153567118
>Is this how Castlevania fans felt when they got their Netflix show?
Pretty much

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>>153567118
DMC didn't have an army of retards praising it for being the best video game adaptation of all time.

>>153567698
The main issue is that show Lady was changed to be a boorish cunt when she isn't like that in the games at all. A talented writer can write a likeable or at least enjoyable asshole but here it's just annoying and the flippant dialogue reflects that.

>>153571721
>it's still not out and out bad
Eh, I disagree. The pacing is completely fucked and the plot just sorta of meanders and becomes completely directionless at points. Even if you just take the first two seasons so much of the runtime is spent wasting time and by the time they actually get to Dracula they rush the fuck outta it. Like I'm not even much of a Castlevania fan and don't have all the autism about all the shit they changed but the writing just flat out sucks ass.

>>153568857
Pretty much. DMC got way more hate cause DMC is just much more popular then CV ever was. Most people only knew about CV from AVGN back in the day.

>>153569347
The one good thing ill say is that the generic fodder demon guys look way better here then what season 1 had

>>153578205
This. People who try to defend it by saying that "it is a bad adaptation but..." ignores how nobody would give a shit about it if it wasn't Castlevania.

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>>153575126

>Itsuno said that Mary's design was based on Julia Volkova from Tatu

Japanese are so based

>>153578569
Love tatu
Love rammstein
Love this mashup
https://youtu.be/gNcG9yBQQLs