Do you prefer modern or classic Black Mask? Do you think Stephanie Brown's death was handled well or were you happy it was retconned?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7vL0ndHp0
>>153600684>Do you prefer modern or classic Black Mask? Classic in character and design. Not fond of making him another skull faced villain, or a torture psycho. Giving him a little secret society of masked henchmen and his whole 30's gangster look feels pulp and timeless. >Do you think Stephanie Brown's death was handled well or were you happy it was retconned?Gross and unnecessary. She was effectively a Robin supporting character and all those YJ generation books were targeted at older kid/teen readers, so all the gore and torture they were subjected to in the 2000's for the sake of "mature" storytelling just comes off as mean and nasty. They kept amping up just how fucked up Black Mask was and it just comes off as edge lord shit. Wow he fed Catwoman's sister her husband's eye! Just desperate attempts to reinvent him which just makes him another psycho killer with no class.
He's still in comics today, right? What does he even do anymore?
>>153600684>Do you think Stephanie Brown's death was handled wellNobody liked it. Not even the writer who was forced to do it.>>153601939Just the typical mobster with a supervillainesque look to him since normal mobsters aren't interesting. He was the most fun in RHATO.
>>153600873I don’t know why Batman writers don’t use the False Face Society more often, it’s the perfect name for a villainous organization
>>153600684Classic Black Mask, with the original design and False Face Society.Modern is lame.
>>153603864They kinda sound like the Court of Owls
>>153603922What about post new 52?
>>153602016Did he do anything after that?
>>153600873They handled her becoming Robin really poorly as well.
I hate the modern generic gangster stuff. He should be thematically similar to Batman: Roman Sionis is a weak willed loser who can’t do anything right. But when he puts on the mask, he becomes a cunning, dangerous gangster. I also like an idea that was present in the early appearance but was forgotten; He recruited his men from the bottom dregs, crackheads and the homeless, using masks as a way to give them a second chance at life, similar to what they did for him.
>>153607751Kinda sounds like Deacon Blackfire from Batman: The Cult.
>>153607787I picture it similar. I like the idea of him living in luxury deep within the worst of the worst slums. Like the Narrows from Batman Begins.
>>153606967He's had appearances here and there but I can't tell you if he did anything of note.
>>153607723Which is as shame because her chemistry with Batman was great, despite being designed to fail I think she’s better as a Robin successor to Dick than Tim or Damian. She didn’t feel as adoring and non-boat rocking as Tim, but not as contrary as Damian who served to be a terror child who has to keep learning lessons again and again.She’s a spunky go-getter who makes silly quips and banters. And her costume looked great with her hair.
>>153607751> He should be thematically similar to Batman: Roman Sionis is a weak willed loser who can’t do anything right. But when he puts on the mask, he becomes a cunning, dangerous gangster.This, I hate how people shit on his origin and how he had the fear of masks from raccoons and was a weak man. That’s the point , criminals are at heart a superstitious, cowardly lot, no matter how dangerous they make themselves.The whole root of the bat rogues is Dick Tracy, inspired by depression era gangsters, who were publically known as head cases. Jack Kirby used to say, Capone gripped the nation because he was a ruthless killer and wannabe statesman but also a mama’s boy,these flaws and almost silly qualities give them character.A psycho is an empty character. Even the Joker early on was understood to be compelled by his narcissism and his need to do elaborate crimes, in the Joker’s millions issue he’s devastated by having to commit mundane crimes to pay the IRS
>>153600873Never seen his classic design, thanks.
>>153600684The original version of Black Mask has never stopped being bad and way too silly. The whole 30s gangster in a black face mask design is garbage as is the dropped on his head as a kid origin. Brubaker era mob boss in white suit with sadistic torture gimmick and black skull mask was great. More recently where he occasionally wears other masks has also been pretty decent idea.New 52 trying to give him superpowers was horrible.>>153603864Because Court of Owls already does their gimmick better. False Face Society doesn’t work outside of being Black Mask’s personal army of faceless goons. They don’t have a clear mission statement that would make them work as an independent crime organisation because they’re just random people in masks doing crime because um reasons. The Court of Owls meanwhile not only had a strong introduction story but they also have good central premise of being rich old people who built Gotham and have been controlling it for ages behind the curtain. And they don’t need recognisable reoccurring leadership because they’ve sort of managed to bake it into the cake that they now go through endless internal power struggles and coups.
>>153608200> Brubaker era mob boss in white suit with sadistic torture gimmick and black skull mask was greatSkull faced sadist is a generic idea. Oh also he dies sarcastic quips!Classic Black Mask isn’t a-list but post NML Mask is a high schooler’s OC.
>>153608245It was the only time the character had any semblance of actual popularity and gimmick that actually made him work as a character people liked to use
>>153608266Because he got a push and was used in the Red Hood storyline which got adapted into a movie. The comic version got no traction despite multiple pushes to make him a big bad and when Selina killed him again almost no one cared. Because you can only push a character like that so much before you wonder why no one kills the fucker. Joker only skirts this because he’s the Joker and retains his interesting thematic aspect. He’s at best a bit player you can use for a storyline or two and shove him off. He would be most ideal for fodder for Red Hood so he can show, yeah these are the kind of supervillains I want to kill.
>>153608319Black Mask worked as a Catwoman villain. He doesn’t have to be a giant Bat-villain.
I had an idea for a story set late in Batman’s career where Black Mask had developed dementia and he just went totally insular insane, like Howard Hughes. His daughter would try to manipulate Batman into breaking through his fortress penthouse so she could assassinate him, but it would find him hooked up to IVs, half blind, yelling at movies, and Batman would just kind of solemnly sit with him until he passed away. I guess it doesn’t have to be Black Mask, but that was my initial thought
>>153608379It might work as a Batman Beyond story but it still has fundamental questions that need satisfying answers for the story to work, like>if he’s almost entirely gone and a total recluse why would the daughter need/want to kill him in the first place>how and why would Batman suddenly take such interest in Black Mask if he’s been out of the picture due to his dementia >if Black Mask has severe dementia and has been fortified in a building for who knows how long who is then running things, paying bills and taking care of Black Mask and why>if the penthouse is fortified does that mean there’s tons of bodyguards around (then who keeps them in check?) or is it all automated now?Etc.
>>153608448A lot of this hinged on the idea he had a circle of blindly ultra-loyalist lieutenants and bodyguards, who had been running the show whole he was crazy, but were mostly stagnant without his direction, holding low-risk profitable territories, and not being involved in gang wars. His daughter wanted to assume control of the False Face Society, but couldn’t exert any meaningful control while he was still alive, due to these people being so loyal. I think I was going to use the idea for a Batman Beyond TTRPG Campaign I was planning to run, but never got around to it. I’d probably have fleshed it out more though.
>>153608505The false face society helps this angle because it gives him an organization to uphold his plans and structure and basically keep the bills paid and the crime organized.
>>153608200>Because Court of Owls already does their gimmick better. False Face Society doesn’t work outside of being Black Mask’s personal army of faceless goons. They don’t have a clear mission statement that would make them work as an independent crime organisation because they’re just random people in masks doing crime because um reasons. The Court of Owls meanwhile not only had a strong introduction story but they also have good central premise of being rich old people who built Gotham and have been controlling it for ages behind the curtain. The Court is a cool idea that's fucking pointless in Gotham because making it so that all the crime in Gotham is because of some corrupt secret society makes it so bad. Umm but also they have nothing to do with the countless supervillains that actually are the main issue in the city and quickly superceded the criminal element. At best they're an enabling element. Which just lacks the same effect as controlling literally all crime. Do they encourage all the robberies and murders in the city by manipulating the economy and establishing an underclass of people so they can benefit themselves economically which leads to shitty neighborhoods where criminals flourish?Wow that's bad but there's a crocodile man fucking eating people. It also absolves the individual and random element of small scale crime by making it all planned by a greater group. The court would work if it was the core villain society of another superhero where in the supervillains were all created by them directly, basically something like Shocker or the various similar organizations in Kamen Rider.
>>153608505>His daughter wanted to assume control of the False Face Society, but couldn’t exert any meaningful control while he was still alive, due to these people being so loyal.Wouldn’t it be easier to just kill the diehard followers than than to enact an elaborate scheme in order to get Batman go after her dad. Or why couldn’t she just impersonate her dad.
>>153608619The court doesn’t control all crime. They’re basically old money business elite trying to control society on a larger level while employing criminals occasionally to do certain things they wanted to do. Like they want to get rid of a neighbourhood filled with poor people because they want to build say a football stadium or some luxury cultural centre, so they get someone to do arson and then after the fire burns down enough of the section of the city they lean on city bureaucrats and councilmen to zone the area for their purposes and force the poor people out. They’re big picture people who want to enrich themselves while also manipulating society to whatever they wanted to do.And the point is, False Face Society is basically a much lamer and unfocused version of a secret society without anything going for them outside of wearing masks and that’s why nobody is that invested or interested in using or reinventing them to be anything besides mooks occasionally showing up in a Black Mask story.
>>153600684Black Mask totally violated Steph when he had her captured and chained up. Stabbing and drilling into her wasn’t enough. He repeated left loads inside her and on her.So you’re telling me it’s been retcon now?I thought it was still canon per New History of the DC universe?
>>153608746>The court doesn’t control all crime.I know, that’s what it’s lame. They promise to be done arcane society behind Gotham’s woes but it’s really just in effect are stereotypical greedy rich people which Gotham already has. Making the corruption in Gotham an organized effort instead of social decay is also very minimizing. Mooks frankly work out much better for this type of story. Villains need henchmen. No ones interested in the False Face society because DC never decided Black Mask’s original stories should be in an evergreen tpb release like court of owls, and DC has no interest hyping up Doug Moench or Tom Mandrake as superstar creators like Snyder or Capullo.
>>153608913It’s confusing but the way DC continuity seems to work currently is that it’s still basically the New 52 universe(except when it’s not and characters have physically changed) but the characters have their memories awakened and basically have treated those memories as their true continuity. So in theory Steph’s current physical body never experienced that, but she would remember it.
I prefer the old Black Mask, but his origin story IS really stupid.
I dont really know anything about him besides the fact that he aparently exists, whats his deal.
>>153610837It’s not much worse than most of Batman’s villains origins.
How controversial is it to say that Black Mask is a better counterpart to Batman than Hush?
>>153611089He has a similar origin of being childhood friends with him. They rarely position them against each other as rivals anymore or play into that dynamic.
>>153611131Yes, their origins are my point. I think Black Mask is better executed.
>>153611150It is more contrived that Hush just seethed for decades until he decided to get revenge over petty shit against Bruce, but being driven insane because you were dropped on your head, bit by a racoon, getting rabis, and blinded by mosquitos is really retarded.
>>153611208It was a different time.
>>153611208Given that Black Mask is basically a parallel to Bruce, they should just crib from Bruce and have Roman spread a bunch of lies and rumors about his background so people start making up and exaggerating wild stories about him.>>153609041You're missing the point of the Court. They're not behind everything, they're exploiting everything.
>>153611548>They're not behind everything, they're exploiting everything.But that's already what the wealthy were doing in Year One. It feels far more effective if all the corruption and exploitation was done through sheer apathy and greed that a coordinated effort at being saboteurs.I think the Court would be more interesting if behind the ritual and cryptisism they were just basically LARPers, a bunch of corrupt assholes who wanted to get in on all the masked action but it's all just their wannabe Eyes Wide Shut nonsense. If you have to give them zombie assassins just make them drugged up mercs or something. No big organizing like planning to make Dick a Talon or whatever.
>>153611772The rituals and costumes can be pretense, but such collusion and collaboration happens all the time in the real world.
>>153611089Weird that they made Black Mask and Hush rivals in the 00s in that case.
>>153607838You just wanna fuck her.
>>153610854Hates bruce, got fucked up by getting his mask burned into his face. Runs crime in gotham but looks fucked up and intimidating.
>>153600684He's basically Two-Face but with zero redeeming qualities.
>>153614299Even the old version?
Anyone else notice the Joker in Burton's Batman is somewhat based on him?
>>153615541How so?
>>153615618mob boss, permanently disfigured face from fighting batman, covers it with a "mask" of makeup
>>153617031He also disfigures his girlfriend and makes her wear a porcelain doll mask like Black Mask
>>153617614Oh true
>>153611772What ever happened to Lincoln March?
