Was he evil or just brainwashed?
>>153622748Raised with a lifetime of beliefs that he was forced to double down on because God just didn't like him in particular.
>>153622748The latter. He was also raised with psychedelics, hypnosis, and sex to fully help him ingrain that his reign was divine
>>153622748Wait, which person? Moses or the Pharaoh? Because from each other's point of view, they are being unreasonable. Slaves are basically the engine of the Egyptian economy in this world (This isn't true historically. While Egypt did use forced or coerced labor, it's a lot more vague and gray than something like American Antebellum Plantation Slavery. For the sake of the story, we'll just presume it's a generic, run-of-the-mill platonic idea of slavery. ) Telling him to just free the slaves is basically asking for a revolt or civil war. It's actually very rare that states just peacefully give up slaves, not without compensating slave owners. To put it another way, imagine if Pharaoh was a capitalist and Moses came and just told him to turn his capitalist state into a Soviet socialist one. From Moses' point of view, Pharaoh's being unreasonable. He is basically running his people into the ground and working them to death.
>sharkfag filename
>>153622748They always leave out the part where God kept hardening pharao's heart. Like he says it outright>Hey moses go ask for your people to go and show some of my power in this way if he doesn't.Ok sure>Oh but I'm also going to make this guy more stubborn and indifferent to your pleasUhm...well he didn't let us go>Oh that bastard! Here try this new plague!Its as if the point was actually the plagues all along culminating in the first born deaths.I can't see any other reason as to why God would deliberately make pharoh a prick about the issue.
>>153622854>Its as if the point was actually the plagues all along culminating in the first born deaths.because it wasa story trying to impress upon a young tribe that their god is really fucking powerful and really fucking pissy wouldn't be any good if it didn't involve any punishments
>>153622866>>153622854 The holy books of all the 3 great abrahamic faves were told orally for a very long time and would change over time because of much political and religious motivation and should not always be take literally for what they say. I remember seeing a documentary about the problem with the city of Babylon might have been more with not offering normal hospitality to Nomad Society instead of things like the whole of Babylon. But politic and Miss translation and other motivations change it over time.
>>153622903>should not always be taken literallyAnon no one should ever take any of them literally, ever, for any reason."Slaves" in Egypt were indentured servants with contracts and the Jews that did interact with Egypt were largely merchants. The pyramids were built by paid laborers, we've found the pay tables.
>POE (november 98)>Antz (spring 99)>El Dorado (holiday 99)>Shrek (2000)In the end, Antz came out in october 98 and POE in december. El Dorado was delayed to early 2000 and Shrek to mid 2001
>>153622812Undoubtly, considering he's been posting more of these captioned screencapped comps as of late. It's either another Sharkfag thread or another stealth Death Battle thread. Hell, Sharkfag's threads are more stealthly noticeable than the shit Death Battle tards are doing.
>>153622903Wrong the bible is the direct word of god. Outside of modern corruptions the events did not change
God is an assholeAnd insane
>>153622971That has nothing to do with Prince of Egypt, fuck off.
>>153623031Heihachi?
>>153623031No
It's funny how POE was intended for its entire lengthy production to be DreamWorks' debut movie, only for Katzenberg to decide at the very last minute "Nah, let's release Antz first instead"
>>153623086
Everything is predetermined according to gods plan and people are just meat puppets playing it all out, every single atom moving along as intended from the beginning of everything ever.
>>153622748Take it with a grain of salt. This is an adaptation of the jewish fan fic version of what could be their first banishments so they had to throw in a bunch of shit about how Egypt sucked anyway and how their gods were fake and gay but also totally weaker than yhwh and how the pharaoh was an asshole who let them go but totally wanted to get them back.
Truly sad how both DreamWorks and Katzenberg' final 2D movie turned out a piece of shit
>>153622933>The pyramids were built by paid laborers, we've found the pay tables.The Bible literally never says the Jews built the Pyramids, that was a Hollywood invention. It outright states that they were building store cities and not pyramids.
>>153624735Man, these jews keep embelishing and exaggerating stories of their suffering throughout history! I wonder if that means… nah, it couldn’t be! But that IS a lot of cookies to bake…
>>153625034 Hollywood invented something that's not supposed to be taken seriously in a movie is not the same thing as Jews lying to you about what historically happened in any medium that you're supposed to believe like an actual history textbook.
>>153622748>Was he evil or just brainwashed?That's the same thing. The Nazis didn't do evil shit because they were born bad.
>Mosses when he orders the genocide of thousands of children of nomad tribes and the people of Jericho as soon as he left Egypt to spread the commandments of God (one of them was NOT to kill)
>>153622748Most people are brainwashed into evil. The same way people were brainwashed into thinking we should get more comedic CG films and no more masterpieces like Prince of Egypt
>>153622748All Pharaos are worshipped as Gods by like modern standards they are uncompromisingly evil like look at how much someone hates the Pope and how much they will complain about him and say hes evil and represents hypocrisy etc and he is still like 10% of a Pharoah comparatively
>>153625034the people called jews today are not related to hebrews
>>153627741Modern Jews are a mix of historical Hebrews and Southern Italians according to genetic testing>But the Kazars-The Kazar hypothesis was disproven in the early 20th Century and the aforementioned genetic testing hard disproved it, only the Kazar upper class ever converted to Judaism and it was basically a LARP so they could trade with both Muslims and Christians.
>>153626013Most Jewish myths are based around justifiable treachery by the chosen and how everyone else tricking them is literally hitler it's a large part of why Christians don't follow the laws of the Old Testament.
>>153627833Why the fuck hasn’t the Old Testament been completely phased out? It feels like a tumor on Christendom at this point.
>>153627833>>153627865 Because one continuity and two what Christians say are the Old Testament is an entirely what Jews ever believed a lot of it was put there just to say this is what the Jews used to believe or what they do believe now instead of us Christians also Talk to an actual religious expert not people online who hate Jews Judaism does not have justification to backstab everyone who's not Jewish not just antisemitism propaganda.
>>153627865A shitload of what Jesus talks about is predicated on the Old Testament and would look completely insane without including it as background context.
>>153622748Both.
>>153622911kino
>>153627788JEWTALIANS ?!
>>153627833Christians don't follow the Old Testament because that's literally what Jesus was born and died for. He was the ultimate blood sacrifice that was supposed to make the vengeful pacts that God made before all null and void.Now to what degree you believe this is literally how all the Abrahamic religions split and stuff, but that's the root issue.
>>153629599Both?
>>153622748>Was he evil or just brainwashed? Yes
>>153624691Yes. Quite sad indeed.
>>153627865its required for continuitythat being said literally every law and covenant in it was replaced with Jesus' sacrifice and shit like Leviticus was barely even canon to begin with
>>153622748Brainwashing doesn't existLike every "brainwashed" person, he was convinced of it and had full agency over his beliefs and actions
>>153622748they both were in their own way>Ramses’ father killed Jewish babies>still continues to worship him>Moses’ god kills Egyptian babies>still continues to worship him
>>153632884she sooo sexy
>>153622933The pyramids were built by conscripted serfs. Mass labour was in place of taxes IIRC but you didn't get to opt out, we're not talking hired tradesmen - the god-king said hop and you jumped.
>>153633642You just don't know what the word means, that's OK. Too many comic books and bad movies in your diet.
>>153636617(I'll take that back - weird cold war propaganda is also a valid reason for the different understandings, and since that's I think where the word came from in the first place I'm probably technically in the wrong.)
>>153623128Explain your reasoning, then.
>>153633194It's been a very long time since bible class and I'm not a believer anyway, but Matthew 5:18. I'd prefer it if people were consistent about this crap.
>>153622748God hardened his heart so Moses would have an excuse to unleash the Angel of Death to slaughter the Egyptian first borns.
>>153622808The people who worked the pyramids were fed the best beef in the kingdom every meal to keep them strong. It was also seasonal work with a rotating crew and they went back to their homes when the work season finished.
>>153636617>>153636655I don't really read a lot of comic books nor watch many movies The word is a subversive and gay attempt to portray people that chose to believe in certain values and ideas as lacking agency, and thus are less responsible for their actionsAs if a cultist member that got groomed from childhood, or a soldier just following orders have nothing or very little to answer for because they don't know what they're doing. When in truth, these people just believe in the ideas that fuel their actions.This is the case for the Pharaoh, too. He was raised to believe it, yeah, but every man has a conscience, and he ultimately knew it was wrong, he just didn't care because it didn't affect him. So he's ultimately responsible and has full agency over his actions as a Pharaoh. You could say "he was brainwashed AND evil" lol
>>153622748Why is the Pharaoh always portrayed as young when he should be thew same age as Moses?Moses as an adult before he ran off and spent 20 years hanging out in hiding. They should both be mid 50s or so. but in all adaptations Moses is a gray bearded old man, while the Pharaoh is a young guy of 25-30.
>>153627865Genesis can work because is mostly symbolism(Adam, eve, cain ,.... are just old countries and not person that's why their lifespam is so long).Pentateuch I guess is hard to support but is something jews believe and in context work.Also it can made why some old god turned into devils and how Yahve turned into El-ShaddaiNevi'im/Prophet can work, has some symbolism but I think are a little more historical correct than Pentateuch.
>>153622748He was related to the sun god, the kind of the mightiest and grandest nation in the world. And his weird half brother who ran off into the desert two decades earlier comes back with some weird speech about how he met a more realer god out in the middle of fucking nowhere. From the Pharaoh's point of view, Moses ran off into the wasteland, hid there and became fucking crazy, then returned spouting weird shit about discovering new gods.
>>153622808They also did not have a monetary system. Payment was in grain. So it is hard to compensate with a perishable resource that will go bad in a couple weeks. Giving people a larger amount of grain is not a great compensation.
>>153622748>Was he evil or just brainwashed?yes.
>>153627865Only a retard would say this, the Old Testament is a prophecy about Christ coupled with God's actions in separating the sons of Abraham from all other peoples and races in preparation for himLarge parts of it are him having to contend with the retarded race that the Jews are, because they are by nature very rude and primitive, but God equipped them with cunning and knowledge of the law so they could spread the word>>153638636Genesis is included in the Pentateuch, and it's literal, men used to live that long until we got some insane genetic bottlenecks>Also it can made why some old god turned into devils and how Yahve turned into El-ShaddaiYou're one of 'those' idiots I see
>you dont get it god is actually insane and an asshole because *my headcanon*
>>153626013Yeah...the Hebrews did sort of turn into one of the worst desert nomad raiding tribes in the region for a while.
>>153638636>God gives a very literal 1:1 account of events that transpired>"It's not literal you guys...it only explains everything you would ever want to know but those are metaphors...."I thought fedora retards were not that much of a thing these days.
>>153638619Pharoah lived in relative luxury while Moses was in the middle of nowhere
>>153622748In the movie? He had evil beliefs, but I don't think he was fundamentally evil. He's perfectly capable of being fair and generous to those who he views as humans, he just didn't quite view slaves as fully human. It's a common mindset.
>>153638580OK. But in that case "evil" is also pretty meaningless. Everyone has agency and Pharaoh didn't know he was doing wrong, he was behaving as he was taught to behave. Or, he might have known in this case, I don't remember if he had a crisis of conscience or not, but a real Pharaoh wouldn't have had a second thought.
>>153639505I agree that Genesis makes much more sense when read pretty literally, with events happening as straightforwardly described. The problem is the events didn't happen as described.
>>153637862>until everything is accomplisheddoesn't that refer to the Resurrection?
>>153639626>He had evil beliefs, but I don't think he was fundamentally evilThe pharaoh or Moses?
>>153622854If the Egyptians didn't want to be plagued, they should have had some gods who could actually do stuff like God could.
>>153639844Not except in headcanon. 17-20 are the relevant passages, nothing ever counter-says them as far as I know.
>>153639795I disagree, early Genesis makes great sense read metaphorically. I don't believe it, but I think it's pretty hot shit.
>>153639844That's a common interpretation but there's nothing to support it. Jesus also says "until Heaven and Earth disappear", which clearly implies this'll be a while. It really doesn't make sense for Jesus to be so emphatic and general about a proclamation that lasts all of, what, a year or two? >The law is paramount>We're not ditching the law>Not the least letter of it>Anyone teaching outside of it will be the least in heaven>Drop one law and you'll be the least in heaven>...for the next year>After that we're tossing half of it away
>>153640054Genesis 1-3 kinda work metaphorically, but later Genesis (Flood, Tower of Babel) was absolutely written 100% literally and everyone took it 100% literal.
>>153622854>kept hardening pharao's heartYou're forgetting all the verses in which Pharoah hardened his own heart. Eventually if you make it clear to God what choice you've made and refuse to turn back, God will simply say "Okay." and give you the path you've chosen, wounds and all.
>>153640238This makes zero sense. Pharoah DID choose a non-heart hardening path multiple times, he hasn't chosen the path because he keeps deviating from it and needs God to put him back on track!And if Pharoah was fundamentally incapable of changing his mind at some point, if he has no agency, what the fuck is the point of Moses constantly asking him to change his mind? What's the point of the plagues if they're not to discourage pharoah, to show off?
>>153640238>You're forgetting all the verses in which Pharoah hardened his own heartThat never happened. God did everything. And before you post some retarded cope about freewill, remember that the jew god did the same thing to the kings of Canaan to give the hebrews the perfect excuse for genocide.
>>153623028In Mark 14:12 Jesus is said to eat the last supper on the day of preparation for passover when the passover lamb is sacrificed. Then he is handed over to the Romans the next morning according to Mark 15:1, and dies on the day of passover at 9 in the morning (Mark 15:25).In the gospel of John 19:14, after Jesus had already eaten his last supper the night before, Jesus is said to be sentenced to death by Pilate "the day of preparation of the passover", and is crucified immediately afterwards, meaning he was crucified the day BEFORE the passover.All this makes sense if these stories are interpreted metaphorically, as John is obviously drawing a connection between Jesus (the lamb of god) and the passover lamb (sacrificed on the day of preparation for passover), both being sacrifices meant to appease god. But it's logically impossible for the accounts of the crucifixion in Mark and in John to both be literally true. So the bible is clearly not a document of exclusively literal historical truths. Some of the stories in it can't have happened, and some of them obviously didn't (the tower of babel, the conflicting accounts of Jesus's birth, one of which includes an empire-wide census that never occurred, the entire Earth getting flooded, etc.)
>>153622748Moses? He was brainwashed
>>153622748Any human who follows evil is brainwashed. Evil cannot win a genuine argument. Every time evil tried to debate or trick Jesus, he shut them down. Even people who supposedly pledge their allegiance directly to evil forces in exchange for something are being tricked. Evil cannot deliver on its promises.
>>153640429There are a bunch of NT contradictions. Good luck getting Anon to change his mind on the subject though.
>>153640496Well. From a secular perspective I agree that evil people don't seem to be able to achieve much happiness, if any. But evil people CAN promise you a lot of money and while I don't condone or advise it, an otherwise more or less averagely moral person could improve their material life thereby.
>>153640565You can't really argue about good and evil from a secular perspective, because then we come to the conclusion that a material life is the ONLY life we should achieve, and there is a known wisdom across many cultures from now to ancient times in that, "There is more to life than goods and money".
>>153623244
>>153622748They were from two different worlds and, within the movie context at least, he had the mental burden that his father placed on him about not being ineffectual. There's also "let my heart be hardened", which is vague as to whether it's his own conscious choice or God using him to show the Hebrews his power.
>>153640429Couldn't just Mark or John have gotten the date wrong? What's the big deal? The NT is full of Jesus telling us the disciples are morons.
>>153622911>brother vs. brotherThere's a lot of this in the Bible, huh?
>>153640429The misunderstanding of the timeline comes from looking at the times listed through the modern lens. The way Jews used to count the days is not the "from sun to dusk" 24-hour cycle we use now.
>>153640851>Couldn't just Mark or John have gotten the date wrong?I mean yeah, obviously. Mark and John weren't even written by Mark or John, nor were they originally claimed to be. They were compilations of a then decades-old oral history. Almost certainly the gospel of Mark has the historically accurate date (it was written down much earlier than the other gospels), and the author of John or his sources changed the date to be more theologically significant. The differences between the gospels are completely explicable and normal, but are incompatible with the idea that the bible is the literal word of god that can never say anything incorrect. It is a work written and compiled by humans, and can contain false statements.
>>153638762>All this evangelical seethingKWAB
>>153640496>Evil cannot deliver on its promises.Like your dead jew? Lol
>>153641168Dead?
>>153640670"More to life than goods and money" isn't specific to you, bur I'm not going to argue with someone I've just discovered I don't respect intellectually.
>>153641366There is no path in a purely secular life that does not eventually lead down the road of serving evil, even if inadvertently. Even if you try to argue on the basis of, "I want to limit human suffering", you open it up to interpretation of what that means. Human interpretation of what is morality is a thousand times worse than interpretation of God's word, who at least gives us a foundation of morality of which to argue about.You cannot begin to explain the Bible to a secular mind because they already reject the supernatural and preternatural occurrences in it, which is fundamental to understanding God, who is purely spirit. This would be as absurd as telling an astrophysicist to explain the mechanics of space, but don't talk about dark matter at all because we cannot reliably and scientifically explain it. He would respond, "Then I can only explain up to a point if you limit me that way".Even the most staunch secularist agrees with most of Jesus' teachings, so even if you don't believe in God, you should at least have some sort of curiosity as to, "Why does this one man have a story for every possible scenario in a person's life? All in the span of a couple of years? How did he get to be that wise?".
>>153641672>Human interpretation of what is morality is a thousand times worse than interpretation of God's wordhahahahahain other words "don't use your own feelings and mind to determine right from wrong, blindly follow"because that certainly isn't the way to evil acts amirite?the entire concept of objective morals separate from subjective human opinions is completely retarded
>>153641754Arguing with christcucks is even more retarded
>>153641672It's pointless for us to argue because I don't believe in your intellectual integrity. You might not believe in mine either, that's fine, but there's obviously no point in a conversation. Right? It's just sayonara.
>>153622808>Telling him to just free the slaves is basically asking for a revolt or civil war. It's actually very rare that states just peacefully give up slaves, not without compensating slave owners.Yeah it's funny how that goes. Pedro II tried that in Brazil and it was essentially the final nail in his coffin and the fans of the Republic suddenly had all of the wealthy landowners throw in to their cause and a successful coup was had.
>>153622748>and god hardened pharoah's heartthat means pharoah was open to letting the jews go and ending slavery. but no, the abrahamic delusion is that those first born have to die and the precedent has to be set that slavers always try to keep their slavesanyone who believes in religion is retarded
>>153642197Be gentler, please, if you actually care about ending the influence of religion and just not waving your dick around.
>>153622748I wouldn't call him evil, but he wasn't good either; he was simply trying to be his best as Pharaoh, like his father was He grew up in his father's shadow, being constantly criticised and abused to get everything right to the T. Now he's the ruler of an empire, and he has to make sure it stays stable.And suddenly his brother shows up looking like some nomadic peasant and tells him to let the slaves go, which would be an easy thing, but they were the ones keeping the economy going and building the wonders of his empire and slavery to him is just the norm throughout his life he has seen slaves work and build it just how he sees the world it simply the norm as for why he just shrugs it off when his brother told him his father killed thousands of newborns, they were just slaves after allEven though >>153622808 has pointed out that it isn't true anymore from historic discoveries, but it works well story-wise
>>153642305okay how about this:jesus was a leftist man of color who was executed on a roman implement of torture for being a class conscious political subversive in a client state of rome- Acts 4:32- James 5:-6- "render unto caesar" means pay your taxes and separation of church and state- "easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man get to heaven"- story of Lazarus is predicated on a man being in hell for no other reason for being richanyone who claims to believe in jesus's teachings has to admit capitalism is a sin scientifically proven to be bad by karl marx and has to ignore the part about jesus being a schizo and talking about ripping his own eyes out for looking at a woman because religion usually finds ways to trick people in to sexually repressing themselves. if you actually believed in jesus's teachings, you'd be on the economic lefthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hePRA9yVdQEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E15IC3YKv8g&list=RDE15IC3YKv8g&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kR9y6vKdNQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2u7JZck_I
>>153642427I disagree that Karl Marx could "scientifically" prove anything. You're overall, with caveats, correct. Is this how you think you get Christians in the secular corner (our corner)? Just balls to the walls attacking them? Linking a bunch of podcasters? I could forgive anything except the podcasters, what the fuck? Strap a billboard to yourself saying "I'm an illiterate retard", you'll save time.
>>153642703>asks a question, gets assblasted at answer>i disagree that marx scientifically provedread capital volume 1. also mutual aid is a factor of evolution (title of book by kropotkin)>is this how you get christians?shake the baby christ out of the damn manger if that's what it takes to wake the fuck up and stop sucking israel's dick>linking podcastersyou're yt vids that are years old. shut the fuck up dipshit you have no argument
>>153642762*they're yt vids
>>153642762Do you understand why a YT vid is not a source? Specifically? Please tell me you do.
>>153642977>>153642782>>153642762>>153642703>>153642427First, arguing with an evangelist is not for the evangelist's sake. It's to prevent the spread of the mind virus.Second, youtube videos are indeed shitty sources most of the time, but there are SOME well-researched channels that show their work like this man: https://www.youtube.com/@maklelan
>>153643022I'm sure there are extremely well-researched channels. They aren't legitimate sources. Tell me why.
>>153643098Anon I literally just told you that the channel I linked provides their actual sourcesDid you read that and think I was the same person as >>153642427 ?Work on comprehension.
>>153643120So you can't tell me why. I thought not. It's a genuine problem.You have to be able to follow up a source. You need to check its own references. To drill down. It's not practical with a twenty minute or whatever video. "Watch my video, I pretty please promise it's true" doesn't cut it and it's horrifying that people don't realise that.
>>153643289>I can't readThat's neat.
>>153643321Ditto, so OK, lost interest. Best wishes etc etc.
>>153639726Nigger my point is that he has agency AND he knows it's wrong, regardless of the fact the he was behaving as he was taught to behave, and this applies to everyone else who would be classified as "brainwashed". Stop coping
For me it's Miriam~
>>153623031Yeah, that's why he had to rebrand with Jesus.
>>153640713A Calvinist?
>>153622748He was right.
>>153622748He was wrong.
>>153622748He was left.
He was playing with the big boys now
