I'll start: Wonder Woman being the daughter of Zeus.
>>153625786I dont know much
>>153625786The Anti-Monitor is the one who built the Mobius Chair.
>>153626922When was that?
>>153625786>>153626922Awful start here boys
>>153626922This was ok but the "actually they were never whale teeth, after all this time" was lame
Everyone talks about DCAU Mr. Freeze but giving the backstory of the ex movie star Clayface to the shapeshifting Clayface seems like the most obvious thing ever
>>153628076they were never whale teeth
>>153628118They should have been.
>>153628031Darkseid War. It turned out The Anti-Monitor was Mobius all along. He just has a bad case of the Anti-Life Equation that makes him want to eat the Multiverse.
>>153628076>>153628118Pretty sure it was meant to be ambiguous.
>>153628114Also giving Harvey Dent DID. Makes sense for a guy whose whole deal is duality. Same for the black and white suit, colors that actually look good together instead of fucking orange and green like he used to wearAlthough I’ll admit my favorite version of Two Face has neither. Aaron Eckhart’s portrayal leans more into the whole luck and chance thing
>>153625786I am most likely reaching but Wolverine as a character. All the backstory and Japan stuff we got was from Claremonth, as Len Wein just wanted him to a 19 year old.
>>153628114Karlo actually got the shape shifting powers a few years before by taking the blood from Clayface 3 and Lady Clay to alter himself. Same run the ventriloquist came from so it’s slightly odd they didn’t use Karlo in the first place. Hagen’s personality and origin was already rewritten
>>153630584Basil Karlo’s too 1940’s of a name to do a modern adaptation of. The 90’s equivalent would be like Ron Cruise.
>>153625786Throuple decanonized
>>153630211It’s not, he’s got a wrinkly scrotum face, it’s more clear in the comics proper but most people know a few select images with the full armor so they assume it’s whale teeth
>>153630803Is cyclops banging Emma during krakoa again like some open relationship, I could buy that since jean's a telepath and has super empathy, but its never shown and she's definitely fucking wolverine so she just looks like a two-timing bitch.
>>153631032it was at best implied, I believe
>>153630803>Throuple DecanonizedYES, DESTRUCTION TO KKKRAKKKOAAnyways Mariko was better for Wolverine and Marvel will pay
>>153625786Robin asking to keep the giant dinosaur, and the giant playing card, and the giant penny, and naming the car the Batmobile.
Ovbious choice is ovbious but Year One.Literally a huge retcon to Batman's origin story while also reimagining previous concepts.It also has Batman's opposition in the form of a corrupt Commissioner
>>153631066I assumed it until this page and this dialogue isn't like two people who were already having an affair.
>>153631490I forget Krakoa era has moments that don't make want to aim for something sharp
>>153631476>OvbiousHenh?
>>153631923Esl moment from my end.
>>153625786The Aliens in that early Spider-Man issue being the Tinkerer and Mysterio in disguise.
>>153625786Spiderman having organic webs in the raimi movies. I don't like how Peter is supposed to be poor and yet can make technologically advanced webshooters
>>153632086Making web-shooters and other gadgets on a shoestring budget is a way of showing how smart (but not wise) Peter Parker is.
>>153632238Except they look like he built them in a high tech lab with how sleek they look. Instead of something he cobbled together on a shoe string budget.
>>153625786Superman being a beta simp who doesn't threaten or kill. In the original comics he did it all the time.
>>153629674But Metron built his chair himself, it is the reason for why he helped Apokolips against New Genesis.
>>153632751sure sounds like you don't like that retcon
>>153632751You say that until he breaks the neck of the second Bloodsport, a white supremacist, then you will go "noooooooooo!"
I think Terry works better as the literal biological son of Bruce because it explains how he could have black hair.
>>153632591There is no fucking way the Raimi suit looks like something a poor high schooler could make either.
>>153632808In the retcon, Metron aquired the Mobius Chair an uncertain amount of time after it was abandoned by Mobius and he sides with neither Apokalips or New Genesis, instead acting as a one-time intermediary between the two worlds.
>>153633008>because it explains how he could have black hair.this is one of the stupidest reasons to retcon anything.He's white, it's the future, and it's a cartoon. You can have a family with a bunch of different hair colors.
>>153633008Nah. It spits in the face of the 'found family' theme. Beyond really handled Bruce's situation poorly in my opinion. They badly wanted Bruce to be the sad old man but it threw away too much character and plot development to do it. There could've easily been better excuses for the other Batfamily members to have not been around rather than 'Bruce pushed them away and also Alfred died'.Besides which, the excuse they made for Terry being Bruce's son was really fucking stupid. That barely needs to be said.
>>153632086From a narrative standpoint i like the web-shooters. It adds a built-in limitation. Like if his web-shooters run out or if they get crushed or if he leaves them at home he’s basically a whole different spider-man that has to adapt to that. Plus Peter can get creative with them by making different types of web projectiles or constructs.And i just think they’re cooler than having weird slits in his wrist that goop comes out of, but that’s just me.
Cap getting frozen in ice instead of surviving WW2 and getting involved in Korea.
I'll still always say it, the symbiote making Spider-Man more arrogant, reckless, and violent makes for a better story than it just being too clingy like the original comic storyline presented it as.
>>153625786One thing I like about discussions of Western comics is that fans seem to understand the external factors affecting the story, which makes the discussion less annoying, at least at a higher level. At the lower level, it’s shonen-tier power-level faggotry. Like, almost everything in Western comics, especially from the Big 2, is a retcon. The next writer tries to build on the previous one but puts his own spin on that idea. Like, Morrison ignores most of Claremont’s Israeli politics and focuses on things like Xavier being a creep. And even when reading the original Kirby/Lee run, Xavier isn’t a creep. He’s just really poorly written. Anyway, Swamp Thing isn’t just a retcon; Moore rewrote the character. It was a slightly linear EC-style comic with a brooding Batman-type character. Moore took that book and turned it into a dissertation on horror and sci-fi.
>>153625786>alpha seed of Zeus producing d*ughters from mortalsVery VERY disrespectful
>>153633421This is genuinely the best answer. It also lets you start any Cap story in the present as long as there is at least some part of the North Pole frozen.
>>153625786Clone brain chips. Even as a kid I hated the idea of the bro Clones secretly being traitorous assholes the entire time.
>>153625786Jason coming back via lazarus pit instead of Prime punch.
>>153633358Agree. I’ve always said they work better from a writer’s perspective. However I think we should split the distance and make mechanical wrist-mounted shooters, but also a second ass-shooter, ala Brown Widow
>>153625786Them making Wonder Woman NOT the daughter of Zeus.Made out of clay is much more unique and interesting, it also doesn't involve a man, so it fits thematically.
>>153628114The actual retcon in the comics wasn't giving the actor backstory to the shapeshifting Clayface, but rather giving the shapeshifting powers to the actor Clayface.Pre-Flashpoint, Karlo was still the powerless Clayface from the Golden Age, he only got powers later in the Mud Pack storyline.Post-Flashpoint and specially Rebirth, they went out of their way to incorporate the Batman TAS lore into his backstory so that he had powers from the very beginning, even gave him a daughter like Annie.
>>153634502The Lazarus Pit fits the Batman canon better and is my preferred version, but I still like to give Prime credit for making it happen in the first place.Like, I imagine Prime's reality punch made it so that Jason got revived from the Lazarus Pit.
The Parallax retcon is good actually.Hal going crazy like that never made sense, and even with the bug, all the stuff that happened when he was evil was filtered through Hal, so I never thought it diminished the impact of stories where we went into his trauma like Zero Hour or Emerald Knights or The Spectre.The trauma was there, and it gave Parallax the opportunity to corrupt Hal, he wasn't being fully controlled, he was being influenced.
>>153628118Whale teeth are cooler
>>153633008>it explains how he could have black hair.Motherfucker, red hair is a recessive gene.If Terry wasn't Bruce's, then he would've been just as likely to end up with brown hair instead of black hair. Hell, even with the retcon, Terry being Bruce's son doesn't mean he couldn't have been born with red hair.
>>153633299It makes perfect sense for old Bruce to be lonely and having alienated everyone. The only problem with it is that they should have addressed Dick etc. better even if they wouldn’t regularly appear on the show.
>>153633008>because it explains how he could have black hair.This is probably the most retarded justification you could have for liking the retcon.
>>153634740It’s the John Byrne school of comic fandom
>>153634709No, it makes sense for Bruce to be alone, but not to have alienated everyone. Not the DCAU Batman. Who was best friends with Superman. Who was relatively close to a lot of other Justice Leaguers. That Bruce probably would end up alone, but only because that's just what happens in old age, not because everyone avoided him now.Maybe it could've made sense if some actual reason was given besides the handwavey 'they didn't have what it takes to do the job'. But without anything like that it didn't make sense for that Batman to have been like that.But yes, in particular there should've been a reason why Dick and Damian weren't around at the very least.
>>153633008>Look, I'm telling you black project cuckoldry tech is the only way to wrap things up, how else are we going to logically explain...uh, Terry having black hair?>The McGinnis' adopted?>Can you hear how batshit you sound??
All the various different attempts at reinventing Toyman post-crisis actually being robot duplicates created by the real Winslow is a good one. Most efforts to radically reinvent Toyman always come across as hopelessly desperate when his original concept, a supervillain who uses weaponised toys, works just fine. I also just prefer his characterisation here compared to those other iterations, his utter disdain for the adult world motivating his crimes is a lot more meaty than just "lol, child predator!!" Speaking of the king of retcons, Geoff Johns...>>153634623I agree completely. Emerald Twilight was perhaps the most rushed and contrived means of turning Hal into a villain, the Parallax retcon is almost necessary to make it make sense. And even then, if you're a purist, you can still that Hal succeeded partially in Zero Hour and created the emotional entities himself as a get-out-of-jail-free card for his reputation. I don't believe it myself, but it's a harmless, fun little headcanon.I also think the space bug looks cool.
>>153632751People being very upset at Superman doing any sort of violence while simultaneously posting the iconic panel where he’s smashing a green car is confusing. Golden age Superman would be considered an antihero by today’s standards.
>>153625786Peter Parker getting a teaching degree and working in a public high school as a science teacher instead of graduating from MIT. Last time spider-man felt organically working class.
Knull.Just, as a whole.
Clerk is the best start before he becomes Optimus Prime
>>153633105Doesn't he literally turn Swamp Thing into a make-shift Mobius Chair in Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, implying he is very capable of making the chair on his own?
Blade being a Dhampir rather than just a mutant who's immune to vampire bites.
>>153632591>Except they look like he built them in a high tech lab with how sleek they look.It really depends on the artist and their design for the webshooters.
>>153635733Fuck, beat me to it. I actually forgot this was a retcon, but it’s so much more interesting than his original backstory.
>>153634766> But yes, in particular there should've been a reason why Dick and Damian weren't around at the very leastDamian as we know him didn’t exist in ‘99 let alone the DCAU, he belonged to a story that was called noncanon and would be further retcon to bring him in continuity.
>>153635701Considering the Mobius Chair has access to all knowledge with the exception of The Anti-Monitor's identity and background, Metron probably acquired the knowledge to repair and/or build a new Mobius Chair from the Mobius Chair itself.
>>153635733I like both versions of Blade. There is something cool about a guy with no/low-level powers waging a war on the supernatural, but as part of the Marvel universe, it just makes more sense to have powers.
>>153633008>because it explains how he could have black hair.Byrne?
>>153633421You can also made more stories about captain america copy cat , like in 10 years we can have some 90s Captain america while Steve trauma will be harder because he has been longer on ice.
>>153635544Peter as a teacher doesn't made sense for me and those stories were a slog to read.
>>153632040That kind of retcon just smells like writer autism to me, like someone who wasn't Stan Lee or Steve Ditko was saying there can't be heckin' aliens in MY Spider-Man comics, and pulled off a retcon on one of the earliest Spidey stories about 20 years later, as if there hadn't been a number of other stories with aliens in since. What's the point?
>>153632591He also sewed a very complicated form fitting full body superhero suit that also let's him use his sticky powers using only what fabrics his aunt had on hand and a needle and thread in one night. Just go with it.
>>153633421Oh right, many Captain Americas were actually other guys, like Nasland, Mace and Burnside
>>153634357Yandere Venom, huh?Not bad
>>153625786Rouge left Gambit to die in the artic because she absorbed his self loathing when they touched rather than her being an irredeemably evil cunt. It still isn't perfect but it at least helps justify it a little. Also speaking of Remy, I'm not sure if you call it a retcon or not but Rogue commenting in a panel in his like 99 solo that whenever he goes back home for a spell his accent gets thicker for a while after due to acclimation from his father and tante's way of speaking is a clever way to justify people writing him sometimes with no accent and then other times going full des dere dat in his dialogue
>>153630803What the fuck were they thinking with Krakoa. Jesus what a shitshow, ruined almost every character but like Gambit since he was fucking off doing nothing/ Excalibur shit
>>153634590>even gave him a daughter like Annie.I like her better than Annie honestly.
>>153633421It's one of the ones you have to call an absolute necessity.
>>153639019I still don't understand how he made a separate conscious out of his own body or why he made it a little girl, especially if was using her as recon.
>>153639009It had Gail "Fridging is okay when I do it" Simone and Tini "Quirky girlfailure" Howard.You can trace how bad Post-Krakoa X-Men is if you remember Gail is still writting it.
>>153639116Clearly you don't understand the true extent of the power that clay people possess.
>>153635664Feels too passive for me, doesn't fit his eventual evolution into a leader of his own military faction imo.I liked much better how One mixed it up by giving him a physical job like G1, but also an interest in Cybertron's history.Really made it feel like he always had the intention and potential of doing something before he actually became Prime.
>>153633008>because it explains how he could have black hairNigga...
>>153628114>>153634590>originally Karlo was just an actor that killed>then Hagen was a criminal that got shapeshifting powers>then TAS consolidated them into an actor named Hagen that got shapeshifting powers>then the comics had a story where Karlo gets power from the other Clayfaces and becomes like the TAS version of Hagen>then New 52 just made Karlo have shapeshifting powers from the beginning>also a daughter like Annie from TAS named Katherine>and Rebirth made him more sympathetic and gave him a backstory that more obviously incorporated stuff from TAS>also he used Hagen as an alias>they then walked back on that and just made him evil again>and now they're making a movie based on TAS Clayface where he's portrayed as a more tragic and sympathetic figureDid I get that right?
>>153625786Moon Knight being a schizoid with DID. Makes him more relatable.
>>153640656More or less. The only tragedy is that we lost Preston in the process
>>153633421That and Bucky surviving really did a good job on giving him more stories and a way to justify him being both in ww2 and in modern times way more than Magneto
>>153640752It’s a shame how the first four Clayface were all pretty unique and then by the time of the 2000’s it just became “fuck it, they can all shapeshift.”
>>153641014It’s because everyone remembers and likes and wants the BTAS Hagen version of Clayface. And they’re not wrong, it’s the coolest and most usable version
>>153640706that was a retcon?
>>153642169In the early 80s, Jake Lockley and Steven Grant were just aliases Marc used to get info, but later in the Moench run and when MK was in the West Coast Avengers, the multiple personality thing really took off.
>>153633008GR8 B8 M8
>>153632086>>153635544These aren’t retcons. He never went to MIT. He didn’t get a teaching degree either.
>>153640590I don't actually dislike the IDW1 origin where he's a cop before the war, I just dislike them, and a number of other things since trying to make Optimus and Megatron be friends before the war because they wish they were writing X-Men instead of Transformers.
