Whose wank is more tiresome? Joker or Carnage?
>>153636005Joker mogged Carnage that one time they met, so clearly Carnagewank is obviously more tiresome, since they didn't put the effort to wank him back.
No one in the marvel universe pretends that Carnage is some kind of a 500iq mastermind that can kill anyone on the planet if he wanted to.
Jokerwank is a side-effect of Batwank. Carnage just exists for some reason as hideously overpowered for the alleged enviornment.
>>153636045it's pretty obvious you haven't been reading marvel lately
>>153636066Can you blame him?I lost all interest once they retconned symbiotes.
>>153636005>Whose wank is more tiresome? Joker or Carnage?Doom
>>153636217Actually it was a Doombot whose wank got tiresome.The real Doom is still perfect.
>>153636045This. Carnage is strong, but he's not a serious threat to the big boys. Meanwhile, Joker is written as a credible threat to fucking Superman.
Carnage become god one pointdid joker do that?also the laugh virus doesnt work on carnage
>>153636005it's more annoying they have to keep upgrading Carnage's powerlevel every single appearance. He worked best as a slightly above street level psycho killer that had a slime costume that morphed into knives. That was enough. His taking down Silver Surfer is stupid shit nobody wanted. >>153636045I really do not understand what kind of a threat Joker is to guys like Speedsters, Lanterns, Captain Atom...
>>153636917>did joker do that?Were you in a coma during Batkek?
>>153636005Circus asshole man and it's not even close. At least Carnage isn't as overexposed.
>>153636917Yes, he once stole all of Mxyptlk's powers and became the most powerful being in the multiverse.
>>153636917>did joker do that?Yeah.
>>153636005Doesn't really help in either case, but I like to think every time the staff at DC are forced to wheel out Batman and Joker to revitalize sales it hurts whatever pride they have left.I mean you've got to ask yourself what sort of setting you're writing for when it's adjacent shit like >>153636045.With Marvel I have no idea what reason Carnage gets used outside of whoever does it being an unapologetic edgetard.
>>153636756>>153636917Sit down, I have some news for the two of you
>>153636005Listen, all you fools. Don't you know that Carnage rules?
>>153636917Joker did that like four times
In the 90s it was Carnage but now it's The Joker. Even the mainstream is tired of it and finds it cringy. I don't think the mainstream knows Carnage as well.
>>153637687I know it's been said to death but speedsters have to job otherwise they would always win against everyone physically weaker than superman and that's not counting anything like stabbing him with a kryptonite shiv at 36789522579954 miles an hour.
Joker. At least Carnage has super powers. Joker is just some crazy Person with no powers or special abilities at all. Pretty much most Super Villains could just kill The Joker whenever they want. Joker wouldn't be able to do anything if a huge horde of Snipers just started shooting while he was eating his lunch or someone nuked wherever he was.
Carnage never had a shitty live action version played by Jared Leto.
>>153636045what a cringe panel, id write a comic and include a panel and dialog just like this but then immediately have an angry average joe mad at batman for letting joker live after killing the dudes family and he just casually shoots both in the head and they both die
>>153637687Same reason Joker is managing to threaten everyone here including Effigy, Clayface, and Giganta with a rock.One page earlier he canically kills Psimon with that rock, it's his blood on it. He's still dead too.
>>153636756Superman really doesn't count when any asshole can go get a little magic rock that automatically kills him just by being in the same room. that shit won't work against Captain Marvel, Maxima, Orion, Captain Atom, Major Force, or any of the other guys in the same physical level as Superman.
>>153639606Most of those Villains could kill Joker where he stood and there would be nothing he could do to stop it. Are we really intended to believe he could beat all those Villains at the same time?
>>153637739Technically that's Bruce going Joker, not Joker himself. However there's still Emperor Joker
>>153639203Carnage gets to be the whipping boy for events and splash pages since he is so irredeemable that no one is too hurt by seeing him horribly maimed by guys like Sentry. The fact that he is a murderer psycho means he is fair game to be ripped apart and splattered for a shocking panel.
>>153639606I mean, it was a big rock.
>>153639606I mean...it was a fairly sizable rock...
>>153639518Meanwhile all superpowered villains are somehow afraid of him. And Harley personally beat up superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman at the same time in Heroes in Crisis a few years ago. With Superman commenting that she is a better fighter than Batman. Joker gas and venom for some reason is near universally powerful and seems to work on absolutely everyone no matter what. somehow it always takes over Superman and ":Jokerizes" him
Carnage was specifically created to be someone too strong for the hero to defeat alone, leading him to teaming up with unlikely allies. It can get annoying how they have to keep trying to up the stakes, but being a crossover-level threat is true to Carnage's character. The Joker was just a clown-themed street criminal.
>>153639702He was created to be edgier more powerful venom because venom a guud boy dindu nuffin.Ot becoming a bloody violent crossover event made me drop spiderman for a while. Way too EXTREME for my taste
>>153639655>>153639662Killer Croc, go to bed
>>153636005Cletus Kassidy has died and come back so many times I don’t even know which one is which.
>>153639828Both Cletus and the symbiote are so far removed from their originals at this point, every new iteration or clone of one begets the other
>>153639702>>153639760I get the impression he was meant to be a temporary thing. He is too much of a poor copy of Venom without the history or motivation. So he could be a monster that is killed and the heroes move on. But popularity of a character or event usually has editors demanding they return more and more. Carnage was a commercial success by 93. But at the time he was another knockoff villain like Stegron, Jack-O Lantern, Hydro-Man, a copy that is not really as important as the original that not many would care if they died in their second appearance.
>>153639828>>153640001Right there is another thing for me, Joker's immortality is obviously no less absurd but my creative issue with Carnage is there's no reason for it to keep being Cletus.If after a big event he was killed off and one of his victims is revealed to be infected and becomes the new Carnage it would still work out.But for some reason Cletus has been retained through being spared or revived.It's particularly odd because Venom whose developing nature is closely tied to elements of Peter and Eddie has had multiple hosts who have nothing to do with that and added nothing to it, in fact the recent Eddie Carnage similarly was a lot of nothing because Eddie's already been through the host scenario several ways and nothing came of this for either him or Carnage. So it's like someone's actively fucking with the sensible progress for the two symbiotes.Venom should become more attached to its distinct hosts as it develops through them.Carnage should be indifferent to it hosts or any matter of life beyond using everything for its whims and needs.
>>153637798And got outsmarted by Superman.Hell lately he has been rekt by flash or other I think the Batman Rogue gallery has been nerfed a little lately
>>153636052Some times it feels the other way around, like with Batkek and Robin King.
>>153636005neitherbatwank is worse. joker wank only exists for batwank. the only other retarded bullshit that comes even close is rightclops wank
>>153636005Seems I've missed out on some things in regards to Carnage, but my opinion stays the same: while they're both the result of other characters getting wanked, Carnage getting wanked at least kind of makes sense when other symbiotes have been getting wanked too. Joker wank, as seen here >>153639606, is just eyeroll-inducing.>>153636217This, however, is the real answer. I get authors having favorites, but holy shit. at least they can't uncuck him
Carnage left the public eye after his second ever story with Maximum Carnage. He had a few more appearances in ASM until 2000 where he disappeared for good. After his death at the Sentry’s hands, he didn’t show up outside of his own self titled limited series. You could ignore Carnage if you wanted to. You had to go out of your way to buy a Carnage book if you wanted to read Carnage. He wasn’t used in the movies, or any of the animated shows. He had an Ultimate version and he appeared in a couple of Spidey games as a throwaway boss. It was only when Cates got his hands on the character that everything went to shit and we got Absolute Carnage and Extreme Carnage and tons of crossovers and he started showing back up in 616 and ASM. But for almost his entire existence he operated in his own corner of comic books.Now, with all that said. Does ANY of that apply to the fucking Joker? Imagine if DC treated Joker like Marvel treated Carnage. It would be unheard of.
>>153643124>This, however, is the real answer.Anon, from your own position on permitting Carnage; if there's science and magic wank then Doomwank would reasonably follow.In fact, Doom is especially permissible since unlike other settings where adult human heroes and villains mysteriously neglect to use or mix readily available tech and the occult despite it being shown as comprehensive to even children, he does both.The issue with Doom isn't being the realization of a potential threat, it's Marvel writers being extremely lazy with making him the main event of something, his plans, means, set piece moments, jobber conclusion and inexplicable escape from repercussions before starting all over again are not even phoned in anymore, they're stenciled guidelines and sticky notes left hanging around.Galactus has gotten more nuance and progress with less use, which might be the secret sauce but that doesn't excuse it.
>>153636005Joker wank is more mainstream, carnage wank isn't
Spider-Man is allowed a storyline without Carnage.
>>153643240Nigga he was in two cartoons, Spider-Man/ X-Men Arcade's Revenge, an Jap exclusive SNES game, Maximum Carnage where you fight him six times in that game, Separation Anxiety, Neversoft's Spider-Man,
Honest to God, I have no idea what's up with Carnage. The extent of my knowledge of that character is the 90s Spider-Man show. How bad is it?
>>153639630Literally none of those characters are even in the same physical stratosphere as Superman. Now you're the one wanking.
Carnagewank has never extended beyond comics, whereas Jokerwank is omnipresent in all media. Even then, Carnage usually only comes out to play for events or his own dedicated minis. Joker may as well have been mandated to appear in all bat stories for a very long time. He was inescapable, unlike Arkham.
>>153639606Isn't Effigy just as crazy as the Joker but can shoot fire and fly through space? Wait why the fuck can't he just leave.
>>153646387I think they were depowered here.
>>153646402I'm not saying you're wrong, but the idea that Giganta was intimidated becuase she was less powerful, despite being the same size as usual, is the worst wank I've ever seen. I'd have wanked the giantesss, "right away giganta mam!"
>>153636005Carnage on this board, Joker everywhere else
>>153645981Exactly. It was all pre-2000. Carnage-mania went from 93-2000 with the release of Maximum Carnage. He was at his peak for those few years and comics and cartoons and games. From 2000 onwards he disappeared like a ghost.He was in his own minis in comics. He didn’t show up in Spectacular. He showed up in the Ultimate game but was otherwise absent. He wasn’t in any of the movies. He was reduced to appearing in mobile slop. It was only when we started that whole Knull and King in Black stuff that he started showing back up in ASM and company crossovers. That’s when he crept back into games and got his big screen showing. But from 2000 until 2020 he was a ghost.Let’s put it this way. Spider-Man has not fought Cletus Kasady wearing Carnage in the pages of ASM since #431. The last time they fought in a Spidey book at all was Web Spinners #14 in 2000. You’ve either had to read Carnage books or watch someone else wearing the suit like Norman or Eddie. Can you imagine a world where Batman hasn’t fought the Joker in the pages of Detective Comics for more than 500 issues?
Jokerwank is so much worse it's not even close. He's a crazy guy with no superpowers that's always portrayed as the le epic big cuhrayzee boss man that intimidates even other villains who could (and would have no moral quandries to) turn him into pink mist in the blink of an eye. Atleast Carnage has actual superpowers strong enough that Spider-Man can't beat him 1v1, and characters far stronger than him don't shit themselves or job to him for no reason, and other villains who aren't as crazy as him view him as a nutcase serial killer instead of sucking him off for being crazy and genious and the most dangerous man on Earth.When it comes to the Jonkler it feels like the entire fabric of reality is bending over backwards to wank him, while the writers at least make some kind of a token effort (even though it's usually retarded) when they try to justify Carnage's wank moments.
>>153636005Post- or pre- knull?I think post-knull is when Carnage was saddled with 'actually he really likes seeking eldritch powers!' instead of just being the most bonded symbiote host.
>>153650597>He didn’t show up in SpectacularHe did, but it was just a cameo.
>>153636917Anon...
>>153636005>both of them are wanked so hard that their wanks cancel each other out when you put them in the same room
Jokerwank is 10x worse and it's not even close.>whoa the normal crazy guy with no powers killed a guy with a rock how scary!!!!>we're evil but it's not like any of us have killed anybody before!!meanwhile Cheetah was a cannibal during this same time period
>>153652210They must all know that if they try to kill him then Batman will show up and beat them all up.
>>1536396301. Superman curbstomps all of those dorks.2. Superman defeats people who have kryptonite all the time.3. Joker has beaten the entire Justice League.
>>153637687>stronger than Spider-man and Venom combined>slightly above street level
>>153652234That's the real answer here.
>>153653108Why is Batman such a faggot for the Joker?
>>153655173Batman isn't a faggot, he's too immature to be sexually attracted to anyone. The way he sees it, Gotham is HIS playground, and its villains are HIS toys, and anyone who dares to interrupt his playtime is bad.
>>153639518>all those scarswhen is DC gonna do a "batman gets scurvy" story?
>>153636005There's a reason nobody goes "why doesn't Spider-Man just kill Carnage?" with any sincerity. He's a regular villain who does villain shit but is handled appropriately. Joker is portrayed as the worstest most cruelest and most dangerous killing machine ever and does all the bad things and also he's the smartest and also if he wanted to he could turn Batman into super duper Joker and kill the whole world.Only Joker gets stupid enough that it's completely unbelievable and takes you out of the story.
>>153636005
jokerwank is more tiresome from duration, carnagewank is more tiresome from recent intensityi'm tired of joker but i think he should exist, carnage i've hated from day 1 but i guess that might be an unfair bias
>>153636005Joker is threatening people like superman in base form, carnage at least jacks some temporary cosmic power-up when he's treated as a huge threat
>>153636005Joker. More prolonged and nonsensical since by all accounts he is just some guy who shouldnt have all the resources and such that Batman does but the plot just makes him have it. That isnt even getting into the dumb wank to make him threaten characters and things he should have no business threatening. At least Carnage has a symbiote and operates in his weight class and on the occasions he doesnt its due to outside sources giving him a temporary boost to cause shenanigans
>>153651589joker would just throw down some chattering teeth that make a sonic anti symbiote noise and then hit him with a flower that squirts fire and carnage is done
>>153651487It helps that Carnage (Cletus and/or the symbiote) has barely interacted with any other villains besides his own posse, with Scorpion seeming to be the only "street-level" one, so he's never developed any kind of grandiose/overblown "when villains want to scare each other, they tell JOKER stories" in-universe mythology.
Carnage is the shittier character, so he's more tiresome.There is more Jokerwank though. And it can be just as stupid and edgy. But I struggle to enjoy Carnage even at the best of times.
jokercarnage has spent less years being annoying while simultaneously having a spider-man power set to justify being a threat to globetrotter tiers. Joker is literally just a dude with zero training and a handful of gadgets yet DC pretends that he can menace star killers. He has also been annoying for consecutive decades completely unbroken.
>>153659628It just isn't believable, it isn't cool, and worst of all, it isn't funny. I don't know why Jokerwank started, but it needs to stop.
>>153650597>Can you imagine a world where Batman hasn’t fought the Joker in the pages of Detective Comics for more than 500 issues?
>>153653046Was this done by Snyder?
>>153653046>Was this done snider?
>>153661230Batman can take the Justice League alone and Joker is Batman's archnemesis so it makes sense he's so powerful
>>153646202Same Orion that kicks Kal's ass each and every time they get mad at each other?
>>153661230Basically when comics and Timm cartoons in the 00s kept having Batman beat up superhumans over and over again, to the point that it became accepted that Batman can 1v6 the JLA any time he wants, it became less and less reasonable for the typical Gotham non-powered crooks to be capable of constantly beating up Batman, getting the drop on him or capturing him and sticking him in an elaborate trap in his solo books. So everyone, fans and writers, collectively came to the conclusion that everyone in Gotham must be stupidly powerful too or else there is no way a funny clown man is going to sneak up and knockout the same guy that beat the shit out of Zoom by himself a week ago in a JLA book. Or grasp that the same guy that beat up three Amazons at the same time in a crossover book is somehow losing to two crooks and an overweight midget in a tuxedo in the solo title.All Bat villains were scaled up to match with Batman by the end of the 00s.
>>153636005Carnage because he's leeching from both Joker and Venom.
>>153664386Joker doesn't have a monopoly on being a psycho.
>>153655173His bussy is just THAT good
>>153658006Huh, yeah, off the top of my head, I can come up with:>Blastaar in that weird Webspinners two-parter where Cletus got a replacement Carnage>Judas Traveler in his debut and that Trial of Spider-Man story>Mr. Sinister in that posted Spider-Man/X-Men mini>Wizard, Klaw, Dr. Malus, and Ock (as Spider-Man) in Superior Carnage>the Darkhold Dwarf and Chthon in Conway's Carnage>Norman>Scorpion in Absolute Carnage and Carnage Reigns>Freak, Will O' The Wisp and Conundrum in Absolute Carnage>Hydro-Man, Spot, and Hela in Ram V's Carnage>Bushwacker and Muse in Soule's Carnage
>>153663887I liked when The Rogues of Central City massacred The Gotham knockoff versions of their team.
>>153636005>>153636045Seriously. Only redeeming quality is that they usually do Emperor Joker/Mxy as a reason why he can get wanked to death, and Mxy's entire deal is that he somehow constantly gets juked by people he should mentally outmaneuver by three orders of magnitude because presumably he thinks destroying people's lives is hilariousAt least it's not Frank Castle's>hm but what about guy with gun
>>153666517This is a plot beat I really like and I don't think I see enough>one rogues' gallery that's considered a little less lethal than most steps up to punt a newer or more obviously aggressive villain by showing why they're able to regularly hang with A-listers and survive. Like Suicide Squad except not quite as overexposed as a concept.
