>>153643278
>zuko, notorious hothead who has trash emotional regulation should get with Katara, notorious hothead with similarly trash emotional regulation
>katara should become wife of the leader of the most racist nation on earth who were all trained to hate her culture from birth
Aside from the fire boy/water girl Romeo/juliet trope that everyone seems to latch onto it’s such a shit fucking ship.

>>153643875
You mean the nation that will be forced to bow to the new emperor who will seek reforms?
The girl-nip drama and court politics will be nonstop in that scenario.

Bryke are incompetent. It was money on the table and they left it there. Foid writers, hell trashy fangirl writers, would salivate over it. Hell there is a fucking hermoine draco based fanfic getting a hollywood movie made right now.

I cant fathom the reasoning for just...nit giving the female coomers their bone...

>>153643962
>You mean the nation that will be forced to bow to the new emperor who will seek reforms?
I mean the nation that’s still full of hardliners who in a setting with any sort of “realism” would be extremely pissed off that they went from pretty handily winning the war to losing all territory gained since ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO, based on their two heads of state losing their respective duels. That Zuko doesn’t have like two dozen competing assassination attempts within his first year of being Fire Lord is a miracle.
>I cant fathom the reasoning for just...nit giving the female coomers their bone...
Because despite its popularity with female audiences, Avatar was made as a boys action cartoon. And the protagonist ended up with the love interest. The only reason any girls had an issue with it is because Aang was short and bald. Look at the salivation over him in the new movie now that he’s tall and jacked. And even as a fantasy for girls, Aang as an adult is far more attractive
>would you rather be married to the world’s flakiest emo with a knife throwing ex, insane family, and absolutely fucked political situation in a country that hates you, or the demigod you rescued from the ice who is willing to give up cosmic power to be with you, saved your hometown, and will take you literally anywhere you want on the back of his cuddly flying bison

>>153643278
You mean they resented having put so much time and effort into the lore and animation only to have weirdo shippers brigade the thing at every opportunity to focus only on the question of which penis Katara wants to have inside her? Yeah I can't imagine why they'd still be a bit pissed off about that.

>>katara should become wife of the leader of the most racist nation on earth who were all trained to hate her culture from birth
ah, the metaphorical avatar cuckchair of reparashuns

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Did they destroy this just to throw a bone at Zutarans?

Nah. I just think they wanted to cuck Zuko. As for zutara overall I do agree that the pairing seems to have left some kinda void in a lotta milennials heads. Kinda shocked no ship has really ever replicated the appeal almost as universally. That said yeah a good bit of it is just the tween/teen girls at the time projecting on to Katara to screw the brooding bad boy. Soon as Aang became a brickhouse a lot of folks have shut up. Not accounting for the whole Korra stuff mind ya

>>153645155
The shitty comics did that
Since anyone with any kind of brain or even the barest of understanding of this franchise know they're non canon, as far as I'm concerned they're still together from the end of Sozin's Comet until she passed at some point prior to Korra

>>153643278
Who cares, this ship is shit, so is zuko x mai because she's a fucking charisma black hole and the absolute worst recurring character.
Zuko belongs to earth nation bitches.

A lot of writers were pushing for Zutara but Bryke just couldn't get over their self insert Aang from not getting the girl despite no satisfying build up to it. They are salty that Zutara writes itself

This is how Kataang looks to us:
Aang needing mothering.
Maybe a hint of a crush in the cave if two lovers.
Aang does a one sided kiss during the day of black sun that doesn't get addressed

Aang one sided kiss with Katara during Ember Island Players where it's clear Katara was not into it.

Katara argues with Aang going ballistic about needing to possibly kill Ozai. Aang runs away

Sozin's comet finale .

Last 5 seconds

Kataang kiss

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>>153643278

>>153646878
Kataang was built up an appropriate amount for a kid's show, the mistake they made was to leave them getting together until the last scene of the show because they thought that the idiot demographic of their audience would stop watching the thing.

I don't even like them as a couple that much but I don't think Zutara would have been any better. The idea that people end up with the person they crushed on at middle or high school age for the rest of their lives is fucking stupid regardless.

they had the perfect enemies to lovers kino on their hands and they blew it.

>>153644117
>Avatar was made as a boys action cartoon.
lol
Lmao even

>>153644192
>having put so much time and effort into the lore and animation
Their writers and animators did that, the former of which they've been destroying since atla ended

What's the name of that terrible fanfiction comic? I was trying to find the 'its on bitch wa na na na' panel

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jackie diaz 'my beloved' or some vague shit, easier to find the author

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also
>terrible

>>153647544
>>153647651
How I Became Yours? Surprisingly hard to find.

https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://s762.photobucket.com/user/ReneeLuvsZutara/library/*

There's no obvious way to search through these things but go ahead if you want.

>>153643278
> Not to say that Zuko didn't mean something to her, and vice-versa, and that they, you know, they learned a lot from each other. Much like life, you know, you-you have relationships with different people and they-they teach you different things, and it-just because you're not gonna spend your whole life with someone doesn't mean
that you didn't grow with them or learn from them as a lover - Bryan
Besides, did Zuko do anything in the movie? I don’t think it’s exclusive to Zuko and Katara. What did Toph do? Suki was absent. It was the Airbender Wank fest featuring Dave Bautista and secret Indian avatar

>>153645975
Nah, I like Mai. She balances out Zuko being a giga drama queen.

>>153646878
>Aang needed mothering
I think this dynamic is kind of overstated in the fan interpretation of the show. Katara acted motherly towards Sokka and maybe Toph, but not really towards Aang.

>>153643962
Women don't deserve to get what they want.

>>153647968
her apology during the water scroll episode and telling toph she taught him by being nurturing and gentle come to mind

>>153648000
A lot of healthy romantic relationships are based around the woman being nurturing and gentle to an extent, I'm sure I don't need to explain that to you anon because obviously you've had tons of girlfriends.

>>153648065
>katara wasn't motherly to aang
>anon points to examples of exactly that.
>well actually that's not a bad thing as healthy relationships require it
Not him but I know for sure you haven't had many girlfriends.

>>153645155
>>153645637
i can somehow see this happening but given that zuko has a daughter with the same bitch face mai has, it doesnt make any sense.
if I recall correctly, the comics released roughly around the same time frame bryke were doing their own walmart brand of zutara with makorra.

>>153648365
the comics also split up Toph’s parents, but the way they’re mentioned in korra means one of them remarried or they got back together. So Maiko reuniting wouldn’t be unprecedented.

>>153648000
>her apology during the water scroll episode
Katara seemed rather immature that whole episode, where do you see the motherly aspect in that apology? I can sort of see where you're coming from on the Toph part though.
IMO one of the things that drives the perception of Katara as motherly is that Sokka straight up says it about her. But I'm arguing that her relationship with Sokka is fundamentally different with her relationship with Aang.

>>153648434
oh yeah, I forgot that happened.
it's like everyone except for suki (whom they were trying to set up with zuko, which is something that will never come up again prob) and ty lee had to be either character assasinated or humilliated on those comics.
>So Maiko reuniting wouldn’t be unprecedented.
it isnt, but after the comics mai just seems like such a terrible partner to be with.
she breaks her life long friendship with azula over a guy she's been with for a few months at best, saving zuko's Life (both suki and sokka as well) to just dumping over a nothingburger.
and then she ends up dumping the other kid that looked like a minecraft youtuber over nothing as well.

>area just dropped zutara art on her subscribestar
>but its a commission
I remember she has said she was a kataang supporter before

>>153648709
>area
who?

>>153643278
Zuko belongs to Azula

>>153643875
Still better than Sokka and Mary Sueki and Zuko x lady of boredom Mai

women love toxic manwhores
abusive men will never be without an gf

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>>153647890
Also has a nice ass

>>153648709
Anon, there's a reason the phrase "I'm not gay, but $20 is $20," is a thing

>>153649651
Please elaborate on how Suki is a Mary Sue

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>>153649465
Toph*

>>153643962
She would have to make so many women drink the osmanthus soup man

>>153647651
>he flipped it for the mirror

I respect the dedication.

>>153643962
Bryke fucking despise Zutara for some reason, probably because of how popular it got.

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>>153643278
It was funny of them to make that fake Zutara vid for SDCC.

>>153650105
Aang is their self-insert. That's pretty much it.

>>153643278
I hate Avatar.

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>>153643278
Lol, the only good thing about Korra is it proves this stupid ship goes nowhere.

>>153644117
>The only reason any girls had an issue with it is because Aang was short and bald

No one really liked it back in the day. Katara felt more like Aangs mother or sister, and not in a good hentai way. The writer's never put in the work to show a growing romantic affection between them. A growing respect. Desire.

She jusr kind of worries about him and nags him and aang just kind of likes her.

Not that katara zuko is much better. I feel young women projected a lot onto the relationship. Zuko was this brooding fit asshole. But there was zero explanation or story telling on how the relationship woukd work past those first few weeks of two horny teens fucking. How would a woman from a tribe help run the fire nation? Outside of riding his cock, what support could she give emperor zuko?

Seems like a lot of royalty fiction runs into this. Its all fine and good for a average person to fuck a royal, but the story usually ends before they have to deal with having power via marriage. All disney princess stuff is like this. All the movies end before you see the couple deal with the political consequences. Aladdin the series never deals with it. Aladdin is perpetually an adventurer in the tv series. I dont remember the show ever preparing him to be sulton when Jasmine's father dies or abdicate's the throne. Hercules and Emperiors avoid it in their TV series by going back in time to when they are in schools Shrek rejects the idea entirely and they go love in Shrek's swamp.

>>153652199
>No one really liked it back in the day.
Its not what number of fanfics show.

You niggas are just a loud minority. Most people don't care.

>>153652199
Thinking about ir, its kind of weird that we never really show "good" characters obtaining and using institutional power. We only show villains doing this. "Good" characters usually start a story with a position and ride that until the end. They usually act as an individual or on a small team. Even something like GI Joe, the characters never change rank, nor do interact with the greater military or government. Nothing is shown about how the Joe's would gain or loose authority. They only use cobra gaining or losing power.

One could argue it is a conspiracy but I imagine the real reason is thar "good" children don't challenge the authority of adults. Cartoons and kids media was never intended to become action stories for adults. Something else was suppose to fill that slot. But nothing really did. Some books and anime attempt to, but they usually get bogged down in relationship drama and if characters advance in status, it is usually through happenstance

>>153652239
>Its not what number of fanfics show.

That metric doesnt reflect fan opinion. Fanfics are read and written by a minority of viewers in the west. I'd argue that the majority of male viewers at at least half of the female viewers of avatar during its first airing had never read a single avatar fan fic

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>>153652520
There Was One such portrayal of absolute power being absolutely vested into an absolutely moral Absolute Unit out of absolute historcal necessity, Mein Kaisah

>>153652199

>Katara felt more like Aangs mother or sister, and not in a good hentai way. The writer's never put in the work to show a growing romantic affection between them. A growing respect. Desire.
They were both children, you're projecting your perception of romance between adults into a 12 yo and 14 yo children. It's a miracle they even shared a kiss. Besides having katara blushing at Aang , asking if they could kiss , being jealous every time he gets attention from girls IDK what you could possibly write her do that reflects "desire" that would pass the writing room
>She jusr kind of worries about him and nags him and aang just kind of likes her.
I can simplify shit too but go watch the show
>Not that katara zuko is much better.
it doesn't work because katara never like zuko like that nor did he like her , zuko never really considered anyone but Mai and katara hated zuko for majority of the show, even by the end they wouldn't work because it was made clear that they don't understand each other well, zuko admits as much in the southern raiders. Girls just saw red Blue, fire water, enemies lovers and ran with it without actually seeing what the story or characters themselves have to say.
If anyone listens to zutara fans without watching the show first they'd almost think there was a love triangle and it was so close but Aang just won in the last minute unexpectedly when in reality zuko and katara probably had more interest in Aang than each other.

>>153646878
>Zutara writes itself
Maybe in the sense that the fans have to do all the heavy lifting with the headcanons and parallels that somehow will link to a romantic relationship eventually but looking at we what we have in the show and how the characters themselves are then no zutara would be one of the weakest ships in the show , even jet x Katara holds stronger grounds on the basis of Katara at least blushing at jet and jet liking her to some extent.
Zutara is completely carried by tropes and fans wanting these tropes to be fulfilled, the actual relationship in the show has no romance or passion. We literally have katara threatening to kill him if he thinks of harming Aang, you can call it mothering until foam comes out of your mouth but you can't deny that Katara held Aang in such high importance in her life that the act of betrayal zuko did that led to Aang's death traumatized her for good.

Of course let alone the fact that every accusation against kataang is merely based on aesthetic and projections, you can't scroll a comment section filled of zutara fans without at least 5 girls trauma dumping about being the eldest daughter of color and projecting their experience into katara. All of Katara's behavior towards Aang would suddenly be seen as a caring loving girlfriend who's emotionally available and an empath If Aang was her age and let's pretend that 90% of zutara's fanbase wouldn't disappear overnight if zuko was shorter than katara, suddenly he'll go from a complex traumatized bad boy to a raging manlet with anger issues who katara owes none of her patience or support

>>153653940
>being jealous every time he gets attention from girls
My counterpoint to this is that she's not actually jealous but a girl who has lived her entire life under the shadow of war annoyed the one person who can stop the war is just fucking around.

>>153654102
>Maybe in the sense that the fans have to do all the heavy lifting
No, in the sense that it's just a better and more natural story than Kataang.

>>153654155
Yeah no , they were already doing nothing in most of these instances and Aang plays around alot without her being pissed like with the penguin slides or the school stick. She's really not that much of stuck up, it's actually sokka who's the most annoyed by the gaang just hanging around ot taking too long to do something while Katara doesn't mind side quests or having some fun (think of the Fortune teller or her and toph dressing up)
>>153654206
Is that supposed to be an argument, natural and better on what grounds? What's natural about Katara suddenly being in love with the guy who she hated and considered an enemy just 5 episodes before the finale? What's natural about zuko who showed continuous interest for Mai , threw a guy across the room for flirting with her , smiled when he talked about her with sokka, was charmed by her personality to suddenly forget all of that and fall for katara?
Hell let's go beyond that , what's natural about katara suddenly becoming the queen of the nation that was oppressing them, what duties can katara realistically fulfill as a Queen of the fire nation? Would she even be the person to sit her ass in a castle and learning royal etiquette and pretending to care about fire citizens ? In what world would she prefer that over the freedom, fun and hope she experienced traveling the world with Aang ?
Not only is zuko as a person not compatible with her but the life style the relationship with him offers is 100 times less appealing than the one with Aang.
Even in the comics we get a good look at how zuko has his priorities, wether he likes or not his citizens and his nation hold first priority so he's not gonna be nice to even his friends for disrespecting them even if they have every justification to do so

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>>153654206
>>153654553
That's the one I meant and you can't really call it ooc for zuko because besides the fact that he has to put his nation and people first he can't act nicely towards people who disrespect them even his best friends or he'd not be qualified to be a fire Lord. I honestly want to imagine katara having to play queen and tolerate looking at the faces of the same soldiers who months ago attacked her village or how she'd mentally deal with the fact that she has to pretend to like the fire nation and all the citizens including the not small minority who miss their glory days under ozai and still view other nations with contempt.

>>153654553
>Yeah no
Sorry but yeah, Katara is more interested in what Aang can do for her than Aang himself.

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>>153654669
This seems more like it’d be interesting drama to read and less like there’s actual chemistry between the characters. Shit like this looks like some sort of horrible evil ending for Katara.

>>153654693
>she's not actually jealous but a girl who has lived her entire life under the shadow of war annoyed the one person who can stop the war is just fucking around.
This is not supported by a single thing in the text. Shit, Katara was totally fine with Aang just ignoring Sozin’s Comet entirely.

>>153654553
>What's natural about Katara suddenly being in love with the guy who she hated and considered an enemy just 5 episodes before the finale?
Really anon? She considered him an enemy but she lets him into the camp? She lets him train Aang? Her brother and zuko came back from rescuing her father from a fire nation prison and she still saw him as an enemy? She went on a trip with the enemy to avenge her mom? What does that mean anon when she and zuko, her enemy, go on a trip that addresses her deepest trauma?

>>153654746
In retrospect yeah edits and art of Fire Lady Katara feel so grim. Yeah she was just going to give up her home and culture to go push out babies for the guy in charge of the country that killed her mom.

>>153654769
It means she sees Zuko as a means to an end (training Aang, getting revenge for her mother), and Zuko sees her as the person who trusts him the least, thus the person he needs to do something for.
Actually, if you’re the same one arguing Katara only sees what Aang can do for her, I’d actually argue that’s much more accurate to her “relationship” with Zuko.

>>153654762
>This is not supported by a single thing in the text
How is it not?
Did she not grew up durong the war?
Did she not lose her mom because of the war?
Is her tribe's very existence not at threat because of the war?
Yeah anon I'm pretty sure Katara isn't jealous of the attention Aang is getting from girls and is actually more concerned about ending the war before it's too late.

>>153654801
But what about when the enemy takes her brother takes her brother to a fire nation prison? How is that Katara using Zuko for a means to the end?
She considers him the enemy and unworthy of trust but she will let him take aang by himself? How is that supposed to work if she thinks he's the enemy?

>>153654769
>>153654833
You know that Katara can see Zuko as her personal enemy while also acknowledging that she can't force her feelings onto anyone else and that Aang needing a firebending teacher takes priority over her own right. That was basically what she told Zuko when he first joined up.

>>153654833
>How is that Katara using Zuko for a means to the end?
Katara was not aware they left. Moreover, whatever problem she MIGHT have had with Zuko doing that is override by the fact that he and Sokka brought back Suki and fucking Hakoda. Additionally, is she supposed to feel threatened by Zuko taking Aang on a trip when he literally JUST demonstrated that he can’t firebend anymore? What’s he gonna do to an Aang who can bend 3 elements? Katara told Zuko in no uncertain terms that if he fucks around, she’d kill him. She wasn’t pretending.

>>153654693
And of course you have evidence for that, maybe you can prove me wrong by quoting her own pov novel too where her feelings are even expressed more prominently...yeah you won't

>no guys there was totally enough time for Katara to fall in love with the guy who had spent several months chasing her and her friends and who contributed to Aang nearly fucking dying in front of her
Just because booktok romantasy novels about faeries kidnapping boring peasant girls who just hate sewing say it can happen doesn't mean it's good writing

>>153654876
Well either she's right for viewing Zuko as the enemy or she's wrong fro seeing him still as an enemy so which one is it?

>>153654942
>I fucking hate you for burning down my village but I also understand we need your help to win this war
This is not at all a tough needle to thread.

>>153654942
It's not as simple as right or wrong. Katara was justified in not initially trusting Zuko, but she didn't force anyone else to feel the same as she did.

>>153654884
>she wasn't pretending
She was, we literally see how she couldn't kill the man who took her mother away from her but we're supposed to believe she'll kill Zuko? You're practically talking nonsense.

>>153654965
Then why did she save his life at the finale then anon?

>>153654972
>Katara decides not to execute a pathetic piece of shit begging for his life
>she would still 100% ice Zuko if he tried to kill Aang again
Again, not a tough needle to thread.

>>153654972
It's not about whether or not Katara could do it (personally yes I think she could've pushed herself to try and kill Zuko if it came down to it, which is a different situation than her confronting Kya's murderer) it's that she felt comfortable enough with her rage towards Zuko to say it to his face.

>>153654989
Because they’re still on the same team, Zuko had done a lot to prove himself as being sincere in his redemption, and he LITERALLY just took a lightning bolt meant for her. Doesn’t mean they’re in love.

>>153654994
If you can't kill your mom's killer than who can you kill?
Certainly not the boy who helped you get closure on your mom's death.

>>153655014
Oh but five episodes ago she hated him and was willing to kill him on the spot so what happened?

>>153655034
>if you can’t kill a man begging for his life, you certainly can’t kill a man who is trying to kill the boy you love!
You can do better than this

>>153654972
She didn't kill that man because he was pathetic, old and weak. Even if her revenge was justified she couldn't bring herself to kill a man this pitiful begging for his life , she's not a monster but if zuko pulls a move like the one he did in ba sing sei then killing him would be in self defense and the dynamic wouldn't be the same in her mind.

>>153655034
>if you can't kill the sick old man it means you can't kill the guy trying to kill your friend/love interest who is also the only one who can stop a war that's lasted a century, therefore this means you're in love with that guy

>>153655059
Character development.

>>153655060
>>153655069
Hey so either Katara is cold-hearted enough to kill her mom's killer or she's empathetic enough to recognize Zuko's contrition.

>>153655102
She is empathetic enough to recognize that. She’s also got enough resentment stored up to threaten his life if he ever pulls some bullshit like he did in Crossroads of Destiny again. This is not at all contradictory.

>this guy is doing all this arguing for Zutara btw

is anyone else reading that anorexic katara comic? It’s not Zutara, it bashes every single member of the Gaang including Zuko while Katara is abused and starves herself

>>153655138
Yeah because it's really the only logical choice presented.

>>153655144
No anon, I’m not reading a story about Katara getting an ED and lashing out at her friends.

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>>153643278
I preger Toph and Zuko.

>>153655115
Are katara fans still pretending that she was being treated unfairly and was doing unpaid labor when we already know that the gaang split chores and even have a canon list of that or is it some other kind of grievance?

>>153643278

Avatar is highly satanic because it promotes the false religion of Buddhism

>>153655185
No? We're talking about Zuko??

>Katara was on good terms with Zuko for like maybe three weeks tops
>"Totally enough time for them to fall in love guys"

>>153655165
My man, Aang and Zuko had more romantic chemistry than Zuko and Katara.

>>153655187
it’s like a hellish version where everyone is always reincarnating but you can’t ever escape and if you’re connected enough to malevolent nature spirits you get to become one

What kind of super mental illness causes one to ship Zutara? You're in the same league with Bakudeku trannies.

>>153655219
How long were Sokka and Suki on good terms?

>>153655233
Well how do you figure?

>>153655268
>implying mha wasn’t written to pander to BakuDeku trannies

>>153655269
Suki and Sokka never tried to kill, kidnap or stalk each other, and their romance is played up more like a puppy love kind of thing instead of something epic.

>>153655280
>constantly chasing Aang everywhere to the point of obsession
>rescues him from Zhao’s clutches
>betrays everyone he cares about for him, including his girlfriend
>has to go on a trip with Aang to get his mojo back
>does a gay little dance with him to learn how to be powerful again

>>153655320
Well he's not chasing Aang, he's chasing the Avatar.

>>153655288
Deku and All Might are already a couple.

>>153655302
Treating the characters as actual people makes it look bad but aang and sokka forgave him so quickly that I don’t entirely see the issue. It might be a little too ‘anime’

>>153655269
>>153655302
I wouldn’t call it puppy love, just mutual attraction. Suki’s a girl Sokka met at summer camp one time and had a formative weekend with before meeting Yue (and losing her) and then finally reuniting with Suki again. Their relationship was almost entirely healthy. Not based off a ton of history, mind you, but literally just two 16 year olds who had chemistry.

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Why does this ship cause so many meltdowns? It’s a basic “enemies to friends to lovers” type of ship except it stopped at friends. People have shipped characters for MUCH less. Even comparing this ship’s last moment in the show is hilarious compared to the canon ship
>Katara says they’re trying to help, Aang yells at her and storms off, she’s ready to follow and confront him only to be stopped by Zuko
>skip ahead to Katara and Aang sucking face out of nowhere at the end without acknowledging what happened before Aang left
>meanwhile Zuko saves Katara’s life, she saves him back and cries tears of joy for him, thanking each other in their last moment alone together

>>153655416
It’s because Zutara shippers are insane and put out insane shit to support their ship.
>Katara says they’re trying to help, Aang yells at her and storms off, she’s ready to follow and confront him only to be stopped by Zuko
>skip ahead to Katara and Aang sucking face out of nowhere at the end without acknowledging what happened before Aang left
I mean what exactly is left to talk about? Aang literally solved the issue exactly as he wanted to, the war is over, everyone is happy.

>>153655372
Aang was already willing to try and make peace with Zuko from like the start of the show. I think Sokka just deferred to Aang and to a lesser extent Katara when it came to letting Zuko into the group. There just simply wasn't enough time to write a believable romance between Zuko and Katara, that's all.
>>153655416
I think that you could make the argument that people can be unnecessarily harsh towards Zutara because it's a ship that "only girls could like" but let's not deny that the fans were absolutely insane back in the day.

>>153655416
Don't you see anon? You're just brainwashed by romance books if you think there's anything there.

Why didn't sokka have any children with suki? Are they even together anymore? So many questions

>>153655416
I think here it’s mostly backlash towards women liking it. They are pretty annoying when they tend to ship that dynamic in every fandom even though as you said, zuko and katara actually have moments compared to something like draco and hermione. Zuko being a colonist oppressor is a pretty common complaint on X, and people pretend they don’t care at all about each other. In general, these days a lot of people seem to have the idea that “canon” is sacred, you aren’t allowed to complain at all, any changes were changes for the better, and theres no such thing as bad writing.

>>153655333
>digits
he has to go on a trip with everyone so i dont think that really counts as a romantic dynamic, zuko and sokka on their episode spend time daydreaming about their girlfriends.
come to think of it, zuko and katara shared more screen time togerher than him with aang during S2 right?

>>153655497
Death by Red Lotus is the most common theory, but I saw an idea the other day that Yakone tore his guts up during his trial, and Sokka never recovered. That makes Yakone dying of old age surrounded by his loved ones kind of unsatisfying, but what are you going to do?

>Zutara not only lost to Kataang it's now losing to Zukka

>>153655584
> but I saw an idea the other day that Yakone tore his guts up during his trial, and Sokka never recovered.
I have to imagine Republic City has some public indecency laws to prevent that.

>>153655461
>I mean what exactly is left to talk about?
I don’t know, maybe that Aang didn’t at least say sorry for being harsh on her and everyone else before walking off. If he didn’t get bailed out by the Lion Turtle, what then? It’s just for how much they wanted to sell Aang and Katara hooking up at the end, they didn’t even bother to have him acknowledge that he walked away from an important conversation after telling her to find a solution for him.
>the war is over, everyone is happy.
It’s less about the end product but the set up to get there. Literally their last moment together before that kiss was a negative one that didn’t get addressed. Zuko and Katara’s final moment together was a positive one despite them never getting together. Hating the shippers is one thing but the amount of vitriol for a ship that ended positively like how Zuko and Katara did feels way too forced.

>>153655416
The Zutara ship built its initial momentum back when the show itself gave almost no shipping fodder for it. Fans just shipped them for almost no reason. Then the last few episodes actually offered several reasons to ship them and got the shippers all excited, but immediately destroyed their hopes with the official confirmation that they're not gonna be hooking up. I think it left a lot of fans feeling trolled by the show, and very touchy about this ship.
Also, the show could've pulled off the whole Aang/Katara thing a bit better. If their romance had felt more compelling, Zutara fans probably wouldn't be quite as insistent about their ship being better.

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>>153645155
Cute & canon

>>153655673
>Then the last few episodes actually offered several reasons to ship them and got the shippers all excited,
There was a whole part of Ember Island making fun of Zutara. The only thing about book 3 intentionally hyping Zutarans up was the misleading trailer.

>>153655497
the leaked shitty movie kinda confirms he dies young on that spirit world scene.
it also seemed to me that they took a dig at zutara while they were at it.

>>153655673
>>153655709
You guys are forgetting that the trailer for Crossroads of Destiny did tease that dynamic a fair bit, so I’m not going to pretend there was zero reason to ship them. But the actual episode destroyed it lmao

>>153655716
books 1 and 3 made jokes about them being a couple, I don’t see the issue. They aren’t a couple. I thought it was funny, if anything.

>>153655739
The actual episode is literally the only reason we're still talking about Zutara, like if anything it completely validated the zutara shippers.

>>153655786
the first half, but I can see why him betraying her and ignoring the moment they shared, leading to Aang’s death, would make romance impossible

>>153655809
Well that's the thing tho anon, we can't ignore it when the show itself points out how alike and similar Zukoa and Katara are.

>>153655416
One of the cases where the MC pairing is terrible, and the writers are suddenly diehard defenders of it

>>153655416
The ship itself is irrelevant, it holds as much water as toph x zuko. The problem is the fans, they've been crying about it not being canon for 2 decades and no character survived their overanalysis and seething, Aang gets painted in the most bad faith horrible way possible you'd think he was a possessive stalker rapist who wanted to fuck his mom, katara is basically reduced to a trauma dumping ground for brown teenage girls who can't get over the fact that their mother asked them to switch diapers once , what she's actually like and what she wants is irrelevant since she's supposed to fulfill their desires, zuko ironically enough gets motherd to hell by zutara fans to the extent they kinda forget why he needed redemption in the first place and for some reason think that all his actions before his redemption just cease to be of any importance as a judge to his character.
Do I even need to talk about how Mai is treated in the fandom despite not being any more relevant than ty lee for the original sin of being zuko's girlfriend?
No other ship in the fandom does the characters this dirty.

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>>153655786
People love “what ifs”. The Crossroads of Destiny episode is possibly the biggest “what if” for not only the Zutara ship but the direction of the show’s story. The two being connected is what gets people talking and shippers shipping. Zuko accepting Katara’s offer, whether or not the water even worked, and changing sides would completely change their dynamic and give people a lot of fuel to ship them. This is with hindsight that people still ship them despite Zuko betraying Katara that day.

>>153655940
This, and the solution to the flaws in Kataang's writing isn't just "well they should've done Zutara instead".

>>153655847
Zuko and Katara are similar, but in a sense I think that makes them very incompatible. They’re both massive hotheads who will run their mouth without thinking, and neither would temper the other. Aang and Katara have a dynamic where Aang has a pacifist philosophy and wants everyone to be friends. Katara isn’t unfriendly, but she is much more passionate about perceived injustices, willing to fight people even when there’s no one’s life at stake. The Northern Water Tribe episode is a perfect example. Aang doesn’t like Pakku’s sexism, but is too passive and too respectful of water tribe culture to forcefully override it. Katara doesn’t give a fuck, she wants to run the 1v1, cultural standards be damned.
Similarly, Mai occupies a similar role for Zuko it seems like. Zuko is emo and constantly in his own head, clearly prone to bouts of depression in addition to the kind of emotional outbursts we saw throughout season 1 and 2. Mai cuts through the bullshit and isn’t afraid to tell Zuko when he’s wrong, but also doesn’t really get super pissed about stuff (aside from Zuko ghosting her on the day of black sun, obviously). They’re very fire and ice.

>>153655940
>it holds as much water as toph x zuko
That’s not a strong argument considering Toph and Zuko don’t have the history that Zuko and Katara do. You don’t have to like the ship but pretending like Zuko put in anywhere near as much effort with befriending Toph is the same as him trying to make up for what happened with him and Katara is disingenuous.

>>153643278
Now that I'm aware that Byrke self-inserts as Aang, I prefer Zutara as a pairing even more to be honest

>>153656032
The history doesn't lead to romance just like how zuko and Aang which even had more intimate and better moments than katara and zuko don't necessarily lead to romance, I mean ffs zuko builds a museum and statue for Aang later in life, I genuinely think zuko considered Aang to be his first and best friend.
>>153656001
I read a post a while back on how the two fish spirits we see back in season 1 actually represent the type of energy kataang have , the push and pull , the moon and the ocean. The way they aren't opposites attract rather 2 people who complete each other and show the best of each other and I honestly found this dynamic or reading far better than the generic water and fire stuff

>>153656101
They both self insert as Aang? How does that work?

>>153656032
he kind of had a head start with her since toph didnt see much of him as a villain and she befriended iroh

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>>153654669
Back in the day there was a lot of fic like that, Katara going to the Fire Nation and learning diplomacy or whatever. During the last S3 hiatus after Zuko joined it was especially popular.
>>153654553
I think this ship just got so popular it became a conversation topic but it’s what it says on the tin, the ship. Easy to see how it would work if you’re into it, fun art and fic if you’re into that, not appealing if you’re not, possibly raises questions for the characters and world, but at the same time not that relevant to canon and not something to war over.
As far as characterization goes they do seem to click naturally, doesn’t mean they have to make out. I really liked that they connected in Crossroads and then partnered at the end to fight in TSR/SC while the romance storyline stayed with the more down to earth canon pairs. ATLA was good at friendship. I know the shipping drove the creators crazy maybe because the audience didn’t seem to appreciate what they were doing but Zuko and Katara got a great ending.

>>153656120
I meant DiMartino my bad

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>>153655709
Sure, and the Ember Island episode also had Katara rejecting Aang's romantic advances and seemingly closing that door.
I watched the show in a marathon with no knowledge of the fandom or its shipping wars. During the finale, I assumed they were setting up Zuko and Katara for some kind of a "from enemies to friends to lovers" thing. They got tons of meaningful character interaction towards the end of the show. There were no apparent obstacles to prevent them from hooking up, either. Mai had referred to Zuko as "the jerk who dumped [her]", and Katara had rejected Aang. Katara's explanation about the war making her confused sounded like an attempt to gently let a guy down with "it's not you, it's me, I hope we can still be friends" kind of stuff.
I'm not too emotionally invested in fictional romances, and I'll accept any official pairings. Still, the kiss between Aang and Katara caught me off guard. I felt like the set-up for it was weak. Personally, I think that one Ember Island scene muddled their romance subplots and it should've been cut.

>>153656184
>Katara had rejected Aang. Katara's explanation about the war making her confused sounded like an attempt to gently let a guy down with "it's not you, it's me, I hope we can still be friends" kind of stuff.
While I get why you would think that, but I think that’s reading too far into it. Similarly, Mai saying “the jerk who dumped me” is a bit misleading considering she literally says “I love Zuko more than I fear you” in her last appearance before the finale. Would be fucked up for her to say that and then see Zuko sucking face with Katara at the end.

>>153656184
agreed, that kind of writing by the seat of their pants came back to fuck them in korra where half of the team cheated on each other

>>153656117
>The history doesn't lead to romance
The thing is you’re equating the ship itself to being irrelevant and comparing it to Zuko x Toph despite the latter being nowhere near as popular as the former. This is not about whether it leads to romance in the end, but the fact that the ship gets so much hate for being relatively tame. Making that comparison doesn’t help your argument which is what I was pointing out. The ship is relevant because of the history behind it otherwise you’d see way more fanfare with Zuko x Toph.

>>153655742
it hits a bit different for me personally when you're not seven anymore and you have found out that the protagonist looks exactly like one of the creators.
also the OTHER reason that particular scene isnt funny to me is because, much like the rest of the movie, feels like it's dedicated to canonize Korra's bullshit.
it's kinda like how the boys are using most of their last season on filler episodes were nothing happens to set up a prequel show.

>>153656153
I said before that the ship itself is fine honestly people can create whatever dynamic they like and enjoy what ifs but the reason it became annoying is because they genuinely felt entitled to it and made it everyone's problem, the creators and writers were attacked, any character remotely involved in the ship was heavily misscharacterized to the point that people genuinely had different memory of episodes and rememberd the characters differently than how they were depicted. The best example is the Southern raiders that was twisted to show that zuko understands katara better and that aang didn't let her have a choice like zuko did , some people genuinely had no memory of Aang straight up telling katara that this is a journey she needs to take and her choice to make nor did they remember zuko straight up telling Aang that he was right about what Katara needed.
Some even had a romantic perception of the episode where zuko takes katara's necklace and are surprised when shown how he was taunting her with it.
Alot of people watch the show once then later on might get reminded of it through fan works and analysis so a good portion of the fandom remembers whole interactions and episodes differently because zutara fans made so many posts pushing their agenda on them.
I mean where did the fandom get the idea that zuko and katara were opposites attract when they absolutely weren't? Or why do so many fans genuinely think zuko loved katara in the show ?
The more you interact with the fandom the more you realize how many fanfic and headcanons became part of the canon in their minds

>>153654102
>If zuko was shorter than katara
Lmao I remember years ago having such conversation with my female cousin when we were watching the show on Netflix, she shipped zutara and I remember showing her a fanart where zuko is shorter than Katara and I'm not kidding you This might be the first time I witnessed what women call the ick personally. She even got mad at me for it and I had to apologize.
Everything zuko did can be forgiven but him being shorter than katara would have been the biggest sin ever that can never be corrected.

>>153656471
Zuko was honestly walking such a thin line , he was few centimeters away from his character being remembered as a cringy raging manlet instead of the cool traumatized bad boy image he has now.

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>>153656227
Look at the scene where Asami and Mako break up in LoK. They don't outright say that they're breaking up. They state that they care about each other and they're sad about how things went between them. They're both leaving the ugly parts unspoken. The audience is expected to read between the lines and understand they are no longer a couple.
The Ember Island scene looks like another situation where there are ugly parts that are left unspoken. It looks like a situation where a girl is trying hard to avoid saying the words "I don't like you that way" because she knows it's gonna hurt the guy's feelings.
Aang gets to a point where he demands to know why Katara doesn't want to be a couple or when is the right time. Having to ask questions like that makes it look like he's already lost and digging himself deeper.

>>153656586
I don’t totally disagree, but I would also point out that the Maiko and Asami scene is between two 18 year olds that were in a relationship previously. Katara is 14 and was never in a relationship with Aang. I think the dynamics of the scene are fundamentally different.

>>153656471
>>153654102
he is shorter than mai.
also i dont think him being taller is what got women hooked in but the whole opposites attract theme
>royal and peasant
>fire and water
>enemies to lovers
and so on
plus zuko was the beefier guy and had hair.
sokkla is not as popular but still had plenty of fans because both ships esentially share the same themes

>>153656184
>Sure, and the Ember Island episode also had Katara rejecting Aang's romantic advances and seemingly closing that door.
And literally right before this she says
>Because, we're in the middle of a war, and, we have other things to worry about. This isn't the right time.
That's not closing the door, moron. That's literally leaving it open.

>>153656777
I don’t think it’s totally stupid to see that as Katara letting Aang down easy by viewing the scene in a vacuum, but it doesn’t gel with how Katara behaves towards him in the rest of the series.

>>153656791
Well yeah if this was your first time seeing anything from ATLA but why the fuck would you write anything in a vaccum like that?

>>153656802
I don’t disagree. I think the point that anon made that I agree with most is that the ember island episode is a little too playful with fan expectations and interpretations as opposed to doing more to set up the characters for the finale. It’s an episode I don’t really rewatch for a reason.

>>153652065
Except they proved nothing as both firebenders and waterbenders are completely different characters and personalities. Thus if you actually think Korra and Mako were going to be the new Zutara, you're mentally ill and racist to think that they were the same individuals to satisfy your spite for Zutara not being a thing in canon.

>>153656777
It could be either honestly, anon’s perspective isn’t crazy. When you marathon a series individual scenes come in a sequence not a network and changes in a dynamic just seem like story progression until you see the conclusion.

>>153643875
>Teenage girls love bad boys
>Zuko's nicer than Sasuke

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>Katara was too motherly towards Aang

That was the only thing that could bring him out of the avatar state.

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I guess this is the only Avatar thread.

What do you guys think of Four Elements Trainer?

>Initially play for the sex scenes.
>Now in Book 4 and I'm genuinely focused on Dating Sim aspects and the character writing and refuse to play the slave routes.

I don't care about this show since like the bah sing say arc.
ZukoXKatara and SakaXToph is based though.
People out here shipping Aang are weird and gay though.
You faggots gonna ship Luffy or Goku too? Same energy. Protagonists like that shouldn't be shipped, any on screen romance with them immediately tanks their character.

>>153643875
its literal catnip for girls that have the "I can fix him" bug
>bad boy who tries to kill you at the beginning of the story risks his life to earn your trust back and takes a literal lightning strike for you

>>153659647
You didn't even finish the series and you had almost 20 years.

>>153660733
I did watch most of the next book but why the fuck would I bother? After ba sing say we get Zuko being a faggot in the fire nation, and the gaang getting dropped into deus ex machina bullshit.
And really, after all that what do you get huh?
Korra.
Yeah, really worth the watch bub

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Zuko deserves a devoted earth kingdom peasantwife.
Also disregard the official novel that makes her an earthbender.

>>153646878
nigga WHO is "us"

>>153656561
all the main characters being teenagers kinda helps him on that regard

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>>153659051
Chapter 3 romance should NEVER BE THIS GOOD on a porn game!!! Literally made me forget it was a stupid porn game until the marriage scene. Toph literally stole my heart on that. All wholesome until "lol fuck her in front of everyone in your marriage" bullshit. My disappointed was great and my shame and regret was heavy.

The only true pair for Zuko will ALWAYS be his sister.

>>153661429
That's a weird thing to say and want

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>>153661429
Zuko is so lucky.

>>153654926
maybe if they did a book 4 instead of the gay live action movie...

>>153661593
Unironically the prettiest girl of the show without the lipstick holy damn

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>>153661094
>she can make my bed rock.
>she's a master of the over the shoulder boulder holder style.
>well that explains why I'm rock hard.
>can she talk dirty to me?
>I'd bend her

>>153655138
The entire finale seemed engineered for Aang to get his cake and eat eat too. He didn't have to sacrifice anything. Luck rock activate Avatar State, beats Ozai. Use Deus ex machina power

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>>153661382
That scene is basically an exaggerated version of a marriage custom in history.

>The bedding ceremony is a historical wedding custom where the newlywed couple is placed in their marital bed in front of witnesses, symbolizing the consummation of their marriage. This ritual often involved family and friends and varied in practice across different cultures and time periods.

It surprisingly well thought out for a porn game. Would have been nice if you had an interaction with Toph's parents and get their approval.

I'm Book 4 of FLT and while I like surprisingly like Korra's characterization, I felt bad that the PC was forced to leave Katara and Toph since Ba Sing Se fell to Azula and since he's in the LoK era, they've grown old and have families.

It's worse for Toph as the game basically blames your absence for Toph being an old recluse living in a swamp and Lin your bastard daughter.

Hoping you get an ending where you get a new life with Katara or Toph in a different timeline.

>romance is underdeveloped in obvious children cartoon
>this causes all the shipping teenagers to lose their minds arguing over which ship makes the most sense
>they dont realize all the ships in contention make sense given that the romantic aspects of the kid show are underdeveloped
I dont get why people dont just ship what they want instead of getting mad about it on the internet.

>>153659051
>What do you guys think of Four Elements Trainer?
I find the slave route to be pretty hot although it kinda doesnt know if it wants to be a full on evil route or just an extra kinky route.
I should do a love route at some point just for the feels.

>>153648709
Imagine turning down a commission, refusing work on your job, because you don't like the contents of the picture you're being paid to create.
Hell, I'd draw gay stuff if it paid well, and I could draw.

>>153648709
is that the guy that was making that one makorra comic that he never bothered to finish?

>>153659051
Man, I really need to play this again from the start.
I recently started chapter 4 slave route just to see Korra get taken down a few pegs, but the writing for the actual slave stuff is just awful. (I know you're teaching me firebending, and I'm just a prisoner, but do sexual stuff for me or else your father will be disappointed or something)
Plus, I think there's always proof in each book that the previous chapter's love route is the canon one.
But god-damn, does Mity have some baffling decision making.
There's barely any Ty Lee or Asami anywhere. I don't think Asami is even in the chapter 4 Love route. I think Ty Lee has one proper scene in Chapter 2 love route that isn't even that good.
There's a scene where you see a perfectly plappable ass sticking out of a wall clearly not too perturbed at the fact that her girlhood is ready and in-position for whatever anyone would like to do to it, and your dumbass Mister Awesome decides instead to jack off all over her so she can get out. Doesn't even get all handsy to try and push her. Doesn't try to negotiate to get a few minutes to do whatever he wants with her before getting her out.

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Aang/Toph
Katara/Haru
Sokka/Ty Lee
Zuko/Song

>>153664524
Fair enough
>>153663595

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>>153664428
>Noticed that Four Elements Trainer has a "beastiality" tag.

Can you tell where the scenes are to avoid triggering them or at least give those who aren't into to /d/tier fetishes a proper warning?

>>153664782
It's literally just one scene near the end of the slave route where you walk Korra around naked through the park like a dog, and she gets fucked by a genderbent Naga if you let it happen.

Your relief is my disappointment as someone who's into that kind of thing.

The game actually does a pretty good job at letting you opt in or out to certain fetishes. Not into watching your guy fuck an old lady? There are magic potions to make you younger. Are you into loli stuff? There are magic potions to make you younger.
The loli stuff especially is locked behind multiple different dialogue choices where you have to hit one "maybe" out of half a dozen "EW, HELL NO! THAT'S NEVER HAPPENING" options, and even then, you still have to go through a few more hours of story to actually get to it.
The only issue with this is around Ikki in the chapter 4 love route. If you want to fuck her, you have to indulge her piss kink. So I was locked out of her scenes my first playthrough.

This kind of thing is why f95 needs genres in addition to tags.

There's one part where after you fuck Eska, you get the option to fuck Desna as well. (definitely didn't need to look up which is which, No siree) You can either turn him down and go about your business, fuck him in the ass anyway, or use the power of god-like delusion to turn him into a girl temporarily. Because of that, the game has the "gay" tag.
I'm surprised the game doesn't have a "female protagonist" tag because of that one part at the start of chapter 4 slave route where you get put in the body of Korra's mom for a few minutes.

>>153665543
Imagine if her interference had led to Zukos death. I bet she would feel really stupid then

Aang: I want to befriend Zuko!
Also Aang: Antagonize Zuko is when I see him interacting with my girl in the Crystal Catacombs

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>>153652994
Sieg kaiser Reinhardo!

>>153665059
When thanks for the info and I'm sure the other anons appreciate this as well.

Judging by your info, I guess that the more extreme scenes are in the Slave Route besides the game giving you options to avoid these scenes.

For example, In Book 3 of the Love Route, you are given the option to view Appa having sex with one dungeon girl guards or not.

It's quite nice for the author to do that for his players.

>>153664782
pretty aure youcan also make Korra fuck her dog at both republic city and the ice compound

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Niggas at some point you have to admit that YOU are the obssessed self inserters projecting on others.

Your ship lost decades ago, and you created tons of headcanons over it, including involving real people. Grow up.

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>>153665059

Damn, I was never into Toph in the first place but Book 3 Love Route changed that.

Here's my last question for Four Elements Trainer.

In Book 3, when you perform scams in the market, you can either have Toph create a distraction by (1) sticking her tongue out, wear a swimsuit (2), wear a bikini which gives +1 public (3) and a blowjob.

I couldn't do the last option despite picking option 3 so many times. Is the last option available only in the Slave Route?

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>>153665059
Is there more gender bending?

By the way people would never complain about the ship if Aang and Katara were genderswaped. Or even if just one of them was.

where can we find the Japanese dub? we only see bits of it online.

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How do we explain this plot hole ?