What went wrong?
>>153646810It became canon and was no longer allowed to be its own thing. Now we have a filler comic made by people that would rather be making Archie still.
>>153646810Same thing that always happens.>Here's Sonic! You like him! And here's these characters from the games you like!>Oh shit we're uh, not allowed to do too much with him because Daddy Sega is very picky about the characterization of him and the other game characters. So here's a bunch of OC's! We'll try to make you feel for them!>It'll work on a very tiny audience of autists who want to see the same sad angry girl for the billionth time and therapy lessons in the middle of your comic book and nobody else!>Wouldn't be a problem if we could DO THINGS WITH THE ACTUAL CAST but Sega's doing a Sega, again! Archie fucked them up BADAnd for a brief moment the fans feel bad until they realize that IDW would absolutely turn everyone gay and just be happy it's whatever two side characters that aren't even in the mainline games instead. Rinse. And. Repeat.
>>153646810Burned out writers that don't give a fuck anymore.>then why don't they find better writers?Yeah good luck with that.
weak antagonists.noone is getting hyped over starline the gay zesty hypnotist. so making Surge a crybaby over Starline hypnotising her is even worse than making her a crybaby over an actually cool villain doing something actually bad to her.
>>153647099>weak antagonists.That's a purely Sonc-In-General proble.>But what about Eggman and Metal Sonic!Those characters are literally from the Sprite-age, and in the meantime we've had shit like Lyric, Infinite, The Bad Six, Dark Gaia, Merlina and fucking Erazor. You can count every good antagonist from Sonic's entire 30 year library on one hand.
>>153647099also her backstory is too convoluted.she tries to blame sonic over a rube goldberg machine of coincedences supposedly causing Starline to give her amnesia, which isn't even that bad but I guess she hates Sonic the most for that.Or you go for Evan's version that she's ackshually a helpless woobie victim who can't help but hate Sonic because she's brainwashed and Sonic's ackshually a perfect gary stu who nobody is allowed to grudge for a real reason. In that case why should we care about Surge's whining, if she has no real grievance to air? She's just a dumb brainwashed retard sperging at the perfect Gary Stu, someone un-hypnotise her already so she can have an actually meaningful interaction.
>>153647099>noone is getting hyped over starline the gay zesty hypnotistNo one is getting hyped over Starline the gay zesty hypnotist because…THEY JUST AREN’T, OKAY?!
>>153647332I've seen almost noone hyped over Starline. you can point out analogous examples like that owl lady who draws a selfsona and ships herself with him (probably because he's the only of-age character twitter wouldn't crucify her for)doesn't change that he's the least liked, least popular, least remembered OC in IDW bar the skunks.He's been alive since the start of IDW and Kit already has 3x as many r34 as him.He was killed off and the only thing people spoke about that issue was "Big Oof"
>>153647363Yeah, Starline failed so badly to make an impact on the comic that they killed him and fired his creator to make sure nothing from the comic would end up on HypnoHub any more and the angry letters from parents would stop.
>>153647397people didn’f even realise he died, the fandom would rather outrage that Sonic said “big oof” because “Sonic doesn’t crack jokes!” or “Sonic doesn’t say zoomer lingo!”
>>153646810IDW, mostly. Writers and artists are normally dickless and bullied but its administration from breaking the line to show support to the sex pests commies that give them verbal support online. IDW however was a Netflix script pitch company that filled its positions with those sex pest commies, so the Sonic Comic staff was given free reign from them so SEGA has to work extra hard and control them even more to keep their retarded liberal ideas in check.
>>153647212>You can count every good antagonist from Sonic's entire 30 year library on one hand.Would you classify Scourge and Dr. Zachary in there or no?
>>153647734Definitely no. Points for actually knowing a Fleetway villain though.
>>153647761Why not?
>>153647734I don't know who those are so no, but you have at least 2 free fingers if we count Shadow so go for it.
>>153647212Mephiles counts as a good villain because I said so (it's mostly his really good theme music and good voice acting that carries him)
>>153646841This is basically it, the creatives arent allowed to make decisions because SEGA is breathing down their necks and it just makes everything incredibly stale: Sonic isnt allowed to lose, he isnt allowed to actually show emotions, the comic cant actually worldbuild. Its all static and stale because the comic is about a brand and not a character. For all the faults of archie comics, its story was truly its own. It was exciting because it operated with its own canon and its own characters.It was able to do bold storytelling (of varying quality) because the writers didnt need to get the SEGA ok for every issue and every pannel. But we will never get early 2000s to early 2010s Sonic comic ever again because SEGA is deathly afraid to lose the Sonic as a comic book character to a Penders like figure again. Archie ultimately fucked us all by not beinga able to produce the contracts.
>>153646810I'd say the Metal Virus is where things went wrong. An Archie tier attempt at having stakes that in the end, had none. What were the long lasting consequences from covering the world in Metal Zombie goo? Absolutely nothing.>But StarlineAbsolutely nothing. And because we know nothing can actually happen, there is no emotional investment. The worst part is that the comic fails at being an episodic comic about Sonic kicking Eggman's ass in cool, interesting, and entertaining fashion. To be frank, the comic is boring.That said, the comic exists to introduce new characters who will be later added into the mobile games then milked for MTX money. Also toys (see Infected Sonic). It's not really canon as Sonic Team will retcon as they see fit.
>>153646841archie sonic suck and overrated
>>153647212Infinite and Erazor I'd argue are actually decent. Zavok has genuinely started to grow on me a little and I think he unironically contributes more then Silver.
It failed because Surge should have become a whore in the end.
>>153647734Dr. Zachary was barely even in Fleetway. Even side villains like Metamorphia were better than him.
Sex with Belle.
Is it wrong for me to wish for the next Sonic villains to be a cult that worshipped THE END and getting revenge on Sonic for killing their god? Something similar to KoF's Hakkeshu or Tekken's Hachijou before the retcons?
Post reboot archie was better.
>>153648426Don't give Penders credit. It's how Sega has decided to now operate. Before the comics were just glorified ads for the videogame between games. Now its a BRAND, and is marketed more towards merchandising. Which means making things as bland and as recognizable as possible. Storytelling is not their job.
>>153646810>>153646841>>153647083
>>153650910Most of this is nonsense (Marine is not a tanuki) headcanon (Tails being untidy) misunderstanding (Tails built all the watercrafts in RA, Marine isn’t good at building, Blaze isn’t Marine’s leader/mentor, Marine spends all the game admiring Sonic and ignoring Blaze) and inconsistent (“Blaze and Sonic are parallels because their colors are opposites…Tails and Marine are parallels because their colors are the same”)
>>153647099>so making Surge a crybaby over Starline hypnotising herAnon he kidnapped her and spent months brainwashing her. All while experimenting on the both of them. Plus god knows what other shit.Yeah that would turn most people into a cry baby when you consider the facts how fucking mentally broken that would make someone. She doesn't even know who she is anymore.All in all pretty fucking evil thing to do to someone. Its not like you just sit up and live life normally again. We know she has problems,flashbacks and etc random shit. The problem is they don't use surge like at all, the two of them never show up.
>>153651034Surge doesn’t even remember any of that. She learnt that from a fucking videotape she doesn’t remember. She’s mad at Sonic through a retarded rube goldberg machine of blaming Sonic for Starline giving her amnesia, even when Sonic has barely met Starline (and Starline dies by accident in the next issue and Sonic doesn’t even react or care, unlike in the issue previous). It’s bad writing
>>153647212>Metal Sonic!I am so sick of Ian putting his Heroes bias on full display when it comes to boosting that fucker's agenda. Metal has always and will always be a jobber, not a "badass" or worse Eggman's son when the man was willing to toss him aside for Mecha one game after dying to a WALL
No fucking direction.After the unused Archie plot points, it just became an OC showcase. But not even a good one. Most of them feel like they are out the door before they even do much.
>>153649753That opinion is completely compatible with the sentiment expressed in post you are responding to.
>>153651034She was a cool larger than life badass before that. We didn't need a third female crybaby OC.
Everyone always blames the mandates, but those don't explain why the comic dropped the ball so hard with Whisper, Surge, Starline, Mimic etc.
>>153650998>Only talks about the inconsistencies of Marine parallels and not Eggman NegaAgenda pusher.
>>153651389The comics dropped the ball with its own characters because of bad/no planning for them. In Surge's case Ian and Evan are pulling her in different directions that are both going nowhere >>153647265
>>153651389Because the comic can't have the plot always revolve around them. Their stories were wrapped up. Without the core Sonic cast being allowed to be more proactive and less reactive, the comic is stuck in OC limbo story mode.
Too many autists screaming nitpick shit is making criticism unheard. It is absolutely the writers and artists fault to shut themselves into a bubble in response.
>>153651772You're racist
Does someone still do a yearly storytime of all of Sonic? I want to finally read this stuff.
Ok, your tasked as the new head writer for Spiderman. You can't write about Spidermans personal life, or show anything about where he lives and works. Spiderman can't lose, he can't cry, get angry, or get serious. Your not allowed to use material from past comics, and can only use characters in the MCU movies as the official canon source. No Spiderverse/multiverse allowed.Write your comic.
I don't read the comics (tired, I'm just too inattentive to do it in anything but an actual comic book) but I need some insight into Surge's personality because she seems like the best character in the franchise to use for such a scenario.Is she the type to fight dirty then spitefully laugh at her opponent about getting away with it?
>>153651389With Whisper and Mimic Ian didn't have a plan and hoped someone else would wrap it up for him.
>>153651799>Is she the type to fight dirty then spitefully laugh at her opponent about getting away with it?I guess.
>>153651389>WhisperWhisper has suffered from helicopter shippers forcing her to constantly be paired with Tangle. She needs different character interactions to show different aspect of her personality. This isn't happening while she is paired with Tangle and they don't pair well, so her writing defaults to her backstory.>SurgeSurge's story is too dramatic, so they've been pushing her to be more softer and so easier to write into general stories.>MimicMimic had the best possible way to utilize him by having him infiltrate Restoration, but they resolved it hastily because it wasn't the main focus of the story, so it comes off shit. Then he had to be shelved and for that he is killed in casual battle.
>>153651802Oh, that's why the IDW comics suck. They're written by turbo queers
Not enough Rough & Tumble, and not enough Nite & Don
>>153651790Is that a no then?
>>153651976The monthly'ish storytimes are always plagued with shitposters so full storytime would be difficult.
I dunno but I want Surge's big ass in my face.
>>153651799>Is she the type to fight dirty then spitefully laugh at her opponent about getting away with it?Yes, but she's too much of a crybaby jobber to ever defeat an opponent, even if she did fight dirty. Everyone wanted her to be a cocky punk villainess but then Sonic beat the crap out of her four times in a row and she started crying about her sad backstory.
The writers won’t let Archie go.
>>153651830What's with all these worthless bitches? I thought this was Sonic Comics?
>>153652078She beat Metal Sonic by fighting dirty. The problem is that Sonic literally can never lose because of the mandates.
>>153651790I haven't seen the ride in a while. The comics are in such a dire state that the ride would just be depressing at this point.
>>153651925nigga you gay
>>153650552NTA, but the only credit you could give Penders is him making SoJ aware of how the Amerikajins were adapting Sonic, finally understanding where the OC chipmunk that sometimes showed up on hentai doujins came from.Since then, they decided to keep a tighter control on the comic's content.
>>153652217The guys behind the ride flew too close to the sun and pissed off the wrong mod, which ended up getting yearly Sonic Comics storytiming banned.Honestly, I saw it coming once they started doing storytiming for unofficial Sonic stuff. I don’t mean the unofficial Archie sequels and such, but they were straight-up doing AU fan comics at that point.
>>153652533>they were straight-up doing AU fan comics at that pointSo?
>>153652533>they were straight-up doing AU fan comics at that point.No wonder they got shut down kek.
>>153646810>>153648426If Imada can basically draw and write whatever he wants on his Sonic manga, including stuff like a Digimon expy OC and the endless Maria ass shots in his Shadow adaptation, then we all know what Sega’s actual issue with IDW writing is: They’re not Japanese.
>>153652090Stop saying facts, Boco.Otherwise I can't tell you to shut up.
>>153652692It helps that those are non canon.
>>153652722Yes si—uh…no ma’am?
>>153652786I was half-shitposting there, but honestly, I believe it has less to do with canon or non-canon status and more with Imada writing with a certain Japanese nuance that SoJ loves and we Westerners can’t fully understand.
>>153652632I don't get your point? Especially since so much more off topic shit floods this site daily.
>>153647212Merlina's cool. Fuck off.
>>153651799They don't show the next image where that kick probably broke Surge's leg considering she got humiliated by a bucket and some nails.
>>153652934https://sonic-city.net/2026/03/17/sonic-lore-manager-confirms-blade-of-courage-and-shadow-manga-arent-canon/They’re probably not canon because they’re not “on brand”.
>>153651799She’s completely inconsistent. One issue she’s a crybaby bitch moaning about her trauma, the next she’s a punk baddie who doesn’t give a fuck and then she’s a scrappy rude anti-hero. So her personality is whatever you want it to be since she has a very weak characterization.The pic you posted could happen depending on the writer. One could say “yeah she’s that fucking cool” and another could just have her break her leg trying that. It’s that meaningless.
>>153652940NTA, but it was the combination of two aspects:>off topic shit>piss off a mod badlyOnce your thread subject accomplishes the latter, the subject is banned indefinitely.Is it "fair"? Absolutely not, the other off topic shit you mention should also be banned, but mods are lazy unless they take it personally.
>>153652975Fair assessment of the character.
>>153652975The problem is that Ian and Evan never collaborate on what they’re doing, especially with Surge.
>>153652955I’m not saying they’re canon. I’m saying I don’t think their non-canon status is what allows Imada to write however he wants. It might play a part, but I’m positive it goes beyond that.
>>153652955>Lore Manager Chris HernándezAllow to me to take what he says with a grain of salt.
>>153650910Can't you just leave it at >Blaze is the hero of her world, with her own set of emeralds and her own Eggman nemesisAnd leave it at that?This turns what would be a pretty natural conclusion to come to, into a bunch of unsubstantial reaching.
>>153652979Doesn't help that the pissed off mod was a tyrannical bitch with an axe to grind from what little I can remember back then as it's been a fair few years since The Ride.
>>153652975Yeah, this is my problem with her. I think I like the idea of Surge more than the character she actually is. I was expecting a cool badass punk with a personality akin to Fleetway Sonic getting in Sonic's face, and I guess there kind of are shades of that, but the sob-story shit bogs her down a lot because they revisit it so much. It's nice to have a character that isn't totally 1 dimensional, but jesus. Also, is she even really a villain at this point? It doesn't really feel like it. It's like they made her to be a long term antagonist and had all these cool intricate ideas as part of her design to emphasize that, but at the same time seem to be salivating at the idea of redeeming her.
>>153651254Ian used to send Metal Sonics out to be blown up almost constantly back in Archie, and then Sega had to tell him to stop doing that.
>>153651254>ImplyingIan didn't even write Metal Sonic as a character until Sega told him to knock it off (he initially preferred to write Metal as a sort of Terminator-esque line of robots which sounds intimidating until you realize that they all job) and even after that, I don't recall any instances of Ian "boosting his agenda" aside from the Egg Fleet fight (Did Sonic even go Super to fight Super Neo Metal/Master Overlord?) and Shard, except Shard was just continuing from what the previous writer did (where he almost succeeded in trapping Sonic and Tails in an erupting volcano before having a change of heart).>when the man was willing to toss him aside for Mecha one game after dying to a WALLThen Eggman went back and started using him again. Portraying him as Eggman's son is arguably too much (though the Olympic Games technically did it?), but he is one of Eggman's more consistently used creations, even if the doctor isn't above abandoning him like all of his other ones.
>>153652975Well...doesn't Wolverine have that happen a lot?Although he's had decades of inconsistency built up over several writers, not just a short space of time where erratic characterization across a single writing team has undermined any meaningful growth.
>>153650910This tries too hard to make nega out to be a good character and not the shit one he is in reality
>>153653270The last big thing Metal got in Archie was him shifting into Neo form to meet with Breezie in secret as she tries to get him to leave Eggman and join her.
>>153653329And that was a flashback to the comic's equivalent of the events of Sonic Heroes, from what I remember.
>>153653329At least he got waifubait out of it.
>all this talk about surge>barely of kitlolWhat went so wrong with Kit for this to happen constantly.
>>153653392He's always felt like a superfluous component to Surge.
>>153653172>It's like they made her to be a long term antagonist and had all these cool intricate ideas as part of her design to emphasize that, but at the same time seem to be salivating at the idea of redeeming her.Hit the nail on the head.
>>153653415True, not to mention at least people post her moments with sonic all the time. ever notice how people barely post his with tails? because he doesn't even have much to do with him so it's lacking. So what even is the point of his rival thing with tails if they barely do shit together.
>>153653392IDW characters are only being used to expand the games' roster of girls so there's no need for the male characters. Sonic Team would rather put Surge with Zazz than use Kit at all.
>>153652954I will admit my idea is fueled by...gooner energy but Surge herself isn't the reason, she's just got the personality type that (I imagine) would fit the situation that I'm trying to set up.
>>153653477They still haven't justified him hating Tails beyond his programming.
>>153646810Ian Flynn was allowed to writer for the gamesThe moment that happened he aborted whatever arcs he had planned for the comic to sell to SoJ in the faintest hope he could get greenlit for the games
>>153653392He hasn’t done anything
>>153653509His reason is... he was lied to apparently, but that was Sonic, and even then someone pointed out he really didn't even lie to him either.
>>153652692It's always been that way and whoever thinks it isnt, is a naive fool
>>153646810
>>153652934Honestly. I think if you could learn Japanese, set up some kind of PO box and did the entire thing by mail under an assumed name, you could submit whatever and SoJ wouldn't be fussed. The creator doesn't want to meet in person? Whatever, most Mangaka are Hikkis anyway. Doesn't want tp show his face? Enh, probably just doesn't want people using it to cyberstalk him? His Japanese is weird? Let's see how normal you sojnd when you don't talk to people for weeks at a time!
>>153647083>The same sad angry girlIs that what this was? And Surge is just their new batch of angry sad OCs? I knew IDW had a bunch of OCs but I never figured this was why.
>>153653573
Now that the dust has settled, honest thoughts on her, and the handling of her character in IDW so far?
>>153653614Thunderbolt wasn't sad she was just Amy for Eggman
>>153653674Pointless character tied to the restoration plot line that has no real purpose since they aren't stuck in Forces-land anymore.
Kiturge
>>153653674Do people even like "X won't believe me about Y" plotlines outside of media specifically for it.Otherwise, she's an extension of how the Diamond Cutters are the Not!Freedom Fighters, despite Eggman in the games/IDW not really doing enough to warrant a specific task force to stop him outside of Forces.>But they're cleaning up his tech-How often is this really relevant?
>>153653674Was a dumb bitch. Realized her mistakes. Passable character. The hate was justified though and if someone doesn't follow the comics then I wouldn't blame them for still hating her.
I miss Egg Bosses. I'd take them over Shartline or Memeic
>>153653721>despite Eggman in the games/IDW not really doing enough to warrant a specific task force to stop him outside of Forces.Honestly my biggest gripe with an "anti-Eggman task force" seems like a fanfiction idea, just the same as a "Sonic High School." Yes, it's plausible and justifiable in-universe, but it's so on-the-nose to a familiar personality that it seems like forced relevance, since they're not really doing anything that unique. It doesn't help that barely any of the current members have even met Eggman.
>>153653777> an "anti-Eggman task force" seems like a fanfiction idea,Because the games never went in a direction where that was needed (aside from Forces, but that seemed Western-inspired in general, conceptwise). The games usually had either had Sonic running into Eggman while just traveling around or Eggman revealing himself to Sonic to kickstart the plot. Basically, Sonic would go somewhere, Eggman is up to no good, Sonic fights him. It gives an adventurous vibe because Sonic isn't actively hunting down Eggman (at best, it's the other way around with Eggman tailing Sonic). Even the JApanese version of Chaotix didn't really have them as a group, with each character having their own reasons for being on the island.An "anti-Eggman task force" is the opposite: Even if they react to Eggman's presence, they're still an organized group dedicated entirely to stopping him. They aren't adventurers. Instead they're dedicated to stopping Eggman.
GUN would probably have an anti-Eggman task force desu
>>153646810unironically no romance
>>153653721My issue with the restoration was that they had several ways to check if Duo was Mimic and failed at it.>They already have EggTech that can scan people and certify DNA stuffAnd Mimic can't change his DNA, only his appearance so they could ping him>Long Term SurveilanceWhisper doing it would tip him off but people like Espio, Rouge, or even Tails monitoring his comms could of worked.>Full Body InspectionLiterally check his body when Silver knocked him out or better yet just have a normal pat down without clothes. His suckers can't be shifted which is why he wears gloves so he'd be revealed instantly.Mimic only worked because everyone was stuck on stupid and he was revealed/taken out even more contrived by an eavesdropped call/suicide puss out.
>>153653674Larper tryhard
All I wanted was for the fan archie continuations to update more than once a year, I was actually really enjoying it before it died
>>153654371Lmao hoping for fan anything to actually have a rock solid schedule or finishing the product is a fucking fantasyMfs are just busying themselves until they hit it off and abandon their shit like a toy they outgrew
People were saying Surge gets hot fanart but it's Lanolin and the regular Sonic cast that do instead. What's up with that
>>153646810Characterization and interest sacrificed for blue blur wank
>>153653674Sally 2.0
>>153654527Knuckles is the scaredy cat. He screams at Casper.
>>153654570None of the OCs have good fanart
>>153650552>Before the comics were just glorified ads for the videogame between gamesSure, they had elements of that but the comics became their own source of canon around the early 2000s. They only had to very loosely keep some of the games' elements and obviously had to be about Sonic, but they also deviated a lot from the games with their own storylines and characters. Penders is a hack and he was an overall detriment to the comic, and he also didnt even influence the comic that much aside from a shitload of designs that only got fleshed out by later writers. But he is the reason why the comic is so sterile nowadays. SEGA was kinda close to losing the exclusive rights to comic Sonic.
>>153652692You are right but its less about being ethnically japanese and more about copyright laws. The Sonic manga is produced in japan and japanese copyright laws massively lean towards the corporation that owns the IP. If the Archie debacle had occurred in Japan, there would have been no issue, japanese Penders would have been laughed off the court. But it happened in the US and US copyright law is, or at least used to be, not as clear cut as japanese copyright law. So you are right that part of the reason why things turned out the way they did is because SEGA wanted to bring the license back home rather than have it depend on overseas laws they have little knowledge of and which are less likely to rule in their favour.
