>>153658637
because it's always crappy half assed lore you're not going to get good lore from some faggot shit western cartoon

>>153658637
lore is hard to pull off because you actually need the dedication and it has to be lore from the very start not in the middle of the show.
If I wanted to watch a story driven show I would just watch movies

>>153658722
>If I wanted to watch a story driven show I would just watch movies
Or a story driven show.

Probably because they build it up and then don't go anywhere meaningful with it.

You gotta make sure all the little details pay off if you want to ensure your lore-driven show is doing its job properly. In other words, if you aren't on the same level as Venture Bros don't bother.

Because the writers arent good enough to make any use of it that is satisfying so it all feels like a waste of time

It's kind of like masturbation if you have an episodic cartoon, because nothing really matters and everything can just be retconned, because the writer went "lol". At least in serialized cartoons, it can build up to something.

many shows feel the need to have lore just to have it, just to say they have it because they know its a selling point regardless if its any good or if it only gets in the way

>>153658637
It's just boomers (and people convinced by said boomers) who want every cartoon to just be Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry. Nothing beyond that, nothing with more substance or layers to it, ever.

Just ignore them and keep watching and enjoying 'loreshit'. Let them seethe.

>>153658637
Lore is a hard one to pull off. When it's good, it amplifies what's good. But when it's bad it usually drags down some of the more enjoyable parts of the storytelling.

Adventure Time's lore started off good. Very simple visual storytelling. Talks of "A Great Mushroom War", views of Planet Ooo having a large chunk missing from it, cities sent to the bottom of the ocean. It amplified the fun stories that were being told. But as the show pivotted into the Lore, it didn't really carry through on a lot of the promise and the focus on the weak lore dragged down the decent comedy to just feeling tedious.

>>153659440
Lol, retarded fag

>>153659440
>It's just boomers
Bullshit. People just want cartoons with actual stories, worldbulding and character development. These elements made anime, manga and some cartoons like ATLA extremely popular and successful. When those LORE shows started in the 2010s people thought we were about to get story driven cartoons but that didn't happen. The lore was nothing but a bait. Every single time. This is the main reason the hate against lore became a thing.

>>153659440
Instead now you still just get Tom and Jerry BUT THERE WAS A GREAT MICE-CAT WAR 40 YEARS AGO OOOOOOHHHH

File: GhwIYvzWEAAautR.jpg (71 KB, 902x411)

71 KB JPG

>>153658637
what's the division between lore and story and overarching narrative

>>153658637
Because they are literally too dumb to understand a kid's cartoon if even basic lore is added.

>>153659440
Basically this but also they don't want other people to enjoy cartoons too.

>>153659633
>Every single time.
I wouldn't say that. I think Gravity Falls did a good job of paying off the things it set up. And I think Amphibia particularly really stuck the landing. Hilda is another one where the amount of 'lore' and serialized elements it has are all great. I think they turned out as good as they possibly could considering all of the constraints and red tape of being something like a daytime Disney Channel cartoon.
I agree that many shows have failed at it, many have it just tacked on, and that not all shows need it though. It doesn't need to be in every single show, now does the inverse of being nothing beyond wacky episodic comedy. It's apples & oranges.

>>153659633
>>153659716

>>153659716
Hair splitting nonsense.

>>153659764
LMFAO no Hell no you're so wrong on so many things.

>>153658704
because you're a faggot asshole insolent child that doesn't deserve child like the candycock you crave to suckle so badly

>>153659716
>what's the division between lore and story and overarching narrative
lore is just meaningless backround info the story and narrative is the stuff moving the actual plot and personally affecting the main characters

>>153659842
Bug enough about you.

>>153659844
Nonsense one effects the other.

>>153659764
>I think Gravity Falls did a good job of paying off the things it set up
Please tell me this is bait. The butthurt against the GF ending lasted years.

>>153659633
>>153659821
Basically every cartoon for nearly a century wasn't serialized/loreshit. Everything aside from some outliers like ATLA or the DCAU were purely episodic, or just wacky nonsense. No one is forcing you to watch loreshit, and the opposite of loreshit greatly outnumbers and has always existed in excess. If you want to just keep watching CatDog or Angry Beavers forever, go ahead. I don't understand people being so fucking *angry* over new serialized cartoons, often seems like seeing red furious. Take a chill pill and just ignore them.

>>153659868
Not really.

>>153659922
For sure bait. Anyone praising frogshow is retarded. That shit turned everyone against it quickly in season three.

>>153659572
Lol, newfagged sperg.

>>153659633
>Bullshit.
It is. It's nothin but a buncha fuckin boomers (and older millennials).

Oh look another thread where spastics deny reality aggressively as they proudly wave their soiled underwear like a flag.

>>153660018
No

>>153659964
>The sky isn't blue it's green.

>>153659947
>I don't understand people being so fucking *angry* over new serialized cartoons
Zoomers are so fucking dumb. /co/ always wanted serialized cartoons but lore cartoons aren't serialized. They are just mediocre comedies that bait people into thinking things will happen. If you condensed, for example, the actual plot of Steven Universe you get like ten 11 minute episodes. Everything else was SOL. That is why people started to use the weeb word filler and lore shows are nothing but fillers.

>>153660072
No

>>153659633
>This is the main reason the hate against lore became a thing.
You see, this is news to me. And this is a much more valid position and more valid criticism. I have sincerely run into more people mad at loreshit because they feel it replaced what they see as the golden age of cartoons in stuff like Ren & Stimpy and Rocko's Modern Life than I have people who say they're pissed because they wanted cartoons to be more like anime/manga and they feel cartoons are failing at it. There seem to be a lot people out there where the fact that cartoons are trying to replicate anime/manga at all is what is pissing them off, not that they wish they would do it better.

it's hard to take it seriously when the cartoons look like that.

>>153658637
Lore is extremely a difficult thing to do. A show start out fun and innocent until they dump the lore causing a total tone whiplash in the middle show which cause major problems on the main characters to make them depressed or get shit on, and create toxic environment in the fandom including the shippers (mostly Yuri shippers).

>>153660108
Because it's bullshit he pulled right out of his ass.

>>153660137
Owl House doesn’t count

>>153660137
ESL kun...maybe try that again. You sound like a schizoid.

>>153660081
You're wrong. *Dead wrong*.

>>153660154
No, stop coping

>>153658704
Adventure time's lore is probably more entertaining than its dialogue, characters or humor

>>153660179
Nope

>>153660108
>this is news to me
How? This was the /co/nsensus back then
>>153660154
Go back

>>153660206
Eeyup

>>153660160
>Owl House doesn’t count
I like and am defending loreshit and even I think that show sucked balls.

>>153660198
Oh for sure. AT wasn't particularly funny.

>>153660193
so? , stop arresting

>>153660212
You must want to delete su from existence then.

>>153660211
Meeup

>>153660232
I indeed personally didn't care for it. I don't think all of these shows are great, nor that they all suck. I think it's a mixed bag and that it's an actual case of the truth is somewhere in the middle.

>>153658637
I really really hate this meme term has replaced good writing, character interaction and sensible world building.
But hey, who cares, as long as you can jerk off in 2 hour long video about it.

AT and GF sort of did it right at the start. Only god knows how TOH even got an ending, the executives hated it but it tried. SU and whatever that other one is shouldn't have ever tried.

>>153660215
No

File: CatDoug.png (131 KB, 450x450)

131 KB PNG

>>153659440
>>153659726
>>153659947
>>153660018
>>153660154
The only sort of thing boomers want to watch. If a cartoon has higher ambition, they get mad.

>>153660322
>>153660099
>>153660032
Yes

>>153660346
It's a bias against the medium. I can't make it make sense.

>>153659764
Hilda’s not really a “lore” show and more similar to something like Tintin where there is continuity but the storytelling is pretty straightforward.
Season 3 was the only exception and even the “lore” story was more of a personal character thing.

>>153658704
FPBP. Western writers keep trying to emulate the kind of "lore" that exists in mascot horror game analysis videos. They aren't trying to write a coherent story as much as they are trying to aggressively gesture vaguely at the potential for a deeper, more mysterious background plot and the juice is never worth the squeeze because it inevitable ends up being contrived, derivative, and predictable.
>A bajillion years ago there was a really powerful guy who did a bunch of stuff
>and then he disappeared mysteriously
>then he came back! Or maybe he was never really gone!
>and he wants revenge because his love interest was hurt by someone who is connected in a way to someone else!
>this will take as many seasons as the show gets to unravel
>and now the protag has to use the power of friendship and therapyspeak to save the day!

>>153658637
its the empty calories of storytelling. mf’s get so obsessed with how their fictional world works they forget to actually have a story.

>>153660418
Still less believable than unicorns, somehow.

>>153660489
Yes

>>153660198
No it's not, if anything that's the one of the worst aspects because the lore never worked the world was too absurd and stupid to be taken seriously
>candy kingdoms
>floating wolf head and other dumb shit as God's
>unfitting artstyle that looks made by a 11y0 for drama
Fuck the DEEPEST LORE meme from back in the was originally used to mock ATfags due to how pretentious and up it's own ass the show became and I'm glad that more people have started to call it out on this and in SU

Does anyone else feel like these are extremely limited by being kids shows as well? You can't really commit to anything very interesting like that, because kids don't stick around for the kinds of plots adults do. Maybe if it's joke-laden enough. Even then it will go over their heads most of the time. They're here for that shallow writing, they're here for those lackluster fight scenes and quirk chungus jokes. They're not here for good storytelling and sexy ladies, like everyone should be.

>>153659922
>The butthurt against the GF ending lasted years.
That's made up bullshit. People were stoked on it. They still are.

>>153660678
That's what I meant by:
>I think they turned out as good as they possibly could considering all of the constraints and red tape of being something like a daytime Disney Channel cartoon.

>>153660418
>Western writers keep trying to emulate the kind of "lore" that exists in mascot horror game analysis videos
That's because that version of """lore""" is lore made on the go, aka loreSHIT, by comparison you don't see people complaining about the lore in ATLA, instead you see people jerking the same shows for millennial manchildren that refuse to watch anything else

>>153660678
>kids don't care
No offense but you want this, then fucking make your own AS show instead of using a kid's IP as cover up, now instead of being just for children, western cartoons are known for being for mentally stunted adults that refuse to grow up because not even kids watch cartoons nowadays

>>153660808
>western cartoons are known for being for mentally stunted adults that refuse to grow up
Why are you on /co/ talking about western cartoons is you don't like them and are not this?

File: quote-when-i-became-a-man(...).jpg (64 KB, 850x400)

64 KB JPG

>>153660808
Damn, did I strike a nerve or something? I never said I wanted it to be a kids show, I thought that it would be pretty obvious that I think being kids shows stunts narriative depth.
>that refuse to grow up.
C.S. Lewis said it best. I'll enjoy what I want and the people who say I'm supposed to phase cartoons out and dive exclusively into soulless sitcom junk forever can eat a whale testicle. Some of the most successful cartoons in history are for adults and they started off for everybody.

File: G_iWMpKXsAA7Ph-.jpg (130 KB, 768x1024)

130 KB JPG

>>153659440
I'd take Tom and Jerry any fucking day over Loreshow with dykes #47
Bravo soillennials, truly the masters of lore, no wonder why the industry is dying

>>153660860
>I'll enjoy what I want and the people who say I'm supposed to phase cartoons out and dive exclusively into soulless sitcom junk forever can eat a whale testicle. Some of the most successful cartoons in history are for adults and they started off for everybody.
This. Thank you.

>>153660890
The reason the industry is dying is mostly because the industry is at war with itself over what it wants.

It REALLY wants what the Anime Industry has with the whole "It is not only societally acceptable, but sort of institutionalized, to just keep dropping all your disposable income on the brand new show that is just a rehash of all of the other shows that came before it. Because it presents paper thin philosophies that sort of make the audience think, but not really too much."

But, at the same time, it is mostly funded by a bunch of crusty old bastards who thinks that those kinds of people who do that are lame and should never be catered to, so instead, they should try to make the penniless children do that, while also trying to stigmatize them into abandoning their products by the time they turn 12 to move onto one of their other products that they sell.

Pretty much, they want to have their cake and eat it, but they also refuse to eat said cake, or even hold it for too long.

>>153661182
Yeah you have younger creatives pushing the former with older execs pushing back with the latter. And thus far it has remained gridlocked.

>>153660890
>fuck all this shit I saw a carpet muncher so now this whole thing must crash and burn
Retarded opinion duly noted.

>>153658637
continuity and over-arching narrative is more important and interesting

>>153660890
I don't like dykes any more than you do. But the topic of Woke hurting modern cartoons/the industry is another topic and discussion entirely.

>>153661182
I think "dying" is so hyperbolic. People thought cartoons were "dying" in the 80s too and then the 90s and 2000s came along and raped anime up the ass several times over.
>inb4 muh pokemon
Kids didn't care about anime outside of monster catching shows and maybe 2 4kids vidya shows until like 2016.

>>153661495
lol incredibly inaccurate

>>153661509
Can you name an anime that children actually watched back then that wasn't about catching monsters and wasn't about a video game?

>>153661495
>Kids didn't care about anime outside of monster catching shows and maybe 2 4kids vidya shows until like 2016.
There were a lot of kids who cared about DBZ, Naruto, Sailor Moon, etc. But I think you're right in that they counted as more of a subculture than the mainstream.

>>153661495
Anime was barely finding its ground with Dragonball Z and Pokemon in the 2000s in the states. There was nothing to rape because those two were titanical.
And Pokemon itself was a huge disruption in almost ALL media formats throughout the fucking planet. You cannot just call it a monster catching show, the effects from Pokemania have been stained into the public consciousness unlike anything else in all of human history unless you count the fucking bible.

>>153661182
The best definition of anime Ive ever read

>>153661182
>It REALLY wants what the Anime Industry has
I think this one of many problems as well, not only there are problems from the both creatives and executives, but also trying to be like anime will never work in the US.
The only reason why anime even works is because they cut production's cost by paying poverty wages (impossible to do in US due to unions) and offshore the risk of economic failure to manga by adapting already proven successful mangas
Not to mention that the only ways to make a profitable cartoon are by either ads, which was killed by streaming , and merchandise, shamed and killed by parents and creatives.

>>153661550
What my point was, is that there were vastly more popular cartoons then than there were anime, which is unthinkable to people who really believe that western animation (aka anything not anime let's be real) is circling the drain before it turns to dust and is forgotten forever, and we just exist in an all-anime dystopia for eternity.

People are acting like cartoons are going to go extinct, I think that's stupid and short sighted. There isn't going to be a world where the USA, Europe, and the rest of the Anglosphere stop drawing, stop animating, and just let the east do everything forever, or stylistically entirely dedicate themselves to the same thing. It isn't "dying", it's just a dark age.

>>153661619
>People are acting like cartoons are going to go extinct, I think that's stupid and short sighted.
Yeah people have to be so fucking stupid to actually think that. Total fucking sensationalist retards.

>>153658637
dont know about the rest but gravity falls had decent lore while steven universe had crappy one.
The difference is in the payoff of said lore

>>153661495
That's a bad comparison, in the 90-00s you didn't have TikTok or YouTube with AI slop already replacing animators jobs

>>153660669
>too absurd
ohh my steak is too juicy, my lobster too buttery

>>153661495
>in the 80s
This. The 80s particularly were at least television cartoons' lowest point. Over-commercialized, toyetic, cheap, vapid junk. It's surreal looking back on 80s cartoons and taking in just how soulless they were. To say now is a lower point for the industry or overall worse general product I think is disingenuous.

fuck you stupid ass niggas who can't handle a little whimsy because muh worldbuilding needs to be "believable" you are an enemy to art and deserve the electric chair

File: Gumball.png (2.08 MB, 1920x1080)

2.08 MB PNG

>>153658637
Because people have been waiting 10+ years for the conclusion

>>153661721
I don't think it will last like that. Not the industry, but that model. People hate AI "animation", the industry will try it, fail again and again and again, and go back to what makes money. AI might get better, and be used for some things in the process like inbetweens, but any cartoon made with too much AI, even just enough to bother people, is going to tank hard. I agree that this desire to replace any artistic task with robots is a problem though. It's always something, robots or foreigners you can pay in peanuts and styrofoam.
>>153661742
>Over-commercialized, toyetic, cheap, vapid junk.
Yep. Sure sounds familiar when you put it like that, doesn't it?

>>153661755
If the jokes were good in most whimsy cartoons people would actually like them. Smiling friends had good humor and people didn't give a damn about the world building. So we just need funnier cartoons and the industry isn't delivering.

>>153661821
see, you want people to give a damn about your worldbuilding. If it's not turning heads it's clearly not that important.

>>153661821
>o we just need funnier cartoons and the industry isn't delivering.
Fucking THIS, holy shit. Cartoons now are so fucking painfully unfunny and it makes me sick. I hate that all I can look forward to in newer cartoons is cute girls. I like cute girls but fuck me would it kill these people to have some bite in their jokes? Do they think kids are going to cry if the fun isn't cushion padded enough?

>>153661894
Big City Greens is pretty funny.

Meh I'll drop the shit jokes if they could write a story worth a damn.

>>153661913
That's a good joke.

File: 1771260848642039.jpg (171 KB, 1064x439)

171 KB JPG

>>153658637
I don't think its lore that gets people mad, its the half assed attempt at lore that requires the viewer to keep up with social media posts or random answers to fans at cons and is often just added on and changes depending on who in the production team is giving you an answer. If you're gonna put lore into your work, you need to have it fleshed out, you need to have it in your stories and all their media, and you need to stay consistent.
You cant just wing lore, you dont just "vibe write".

>WAAAHHH THEY HATE LORE BECAUSE [thing I don't like]
>look at the said lore
>tumblr writing

>>153658637
Look at the cartoons in the pic and you'll understand.

>>153661742
Trannies just LOVE to repeat this gibberish yet 80s shows are still more remembered than their 2010s tranny shit, and with good memories.
Time will pass and classics like Thundercat and He-Man will keep getting remembered while Tranny Time and Sissyven Fagverse will be nothing.
Heck, even The Flintstone and The Jetsons are still remembered.
Tranny Ideology will NOT stand the test of time, mostly because all trannies dies in their 30's.
>duuur toy commercial
Your favorite show is nothing but political trash being promoted by jews.

File: yu-yu-hakusho.jpg (502 KB, 1080x1620)

502 KB JPG

>>153661538
>Some of the biggest animated franchises
>Way bigger than any cartoon
>Subculture
>>153661531
DBZ, Saint Seiya, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Samurai X, Fullmetal Alchemist, Yugioh, etc.

>>153662029
This too, it isn't lore per se, it's that the people making the cartoons are a bunch of limpdicked lameasses.
>>153662108
DBZ is the only one on that list I believe. Yugioh is still about monster fighting, which I will admit I did not stipulate specifically but I figured the way I phrased it was close enough. I don't recall fullmetal alchemist being very kid friendly, that I don't buy at all. Have not seen the others or even heard of a few of them. I can only assume (you) watched these when they were coming out.

>>153662172
>I don't recall fullmetal alchemist being very kid friendly
Do Americans force their kids to watch shows for toddlers? The kids of the rest of the world love to watch cool shit.

>>153662101
>2010s tranny shit
The only show in OP to have a tranny in it is The Owl House, and it's from the 2020s.
>Tranny Ideology will NOT stand the test of time
FWIW, I completely agree. I don't like it any more than you do. But that's near-completely beside-the-point and off-topic.
>even The Flintstone and The Jetsons are still remembered.
Those are solid cartoons and deserve to be remembered. Not so much Thundercats and He-Man. The latter are mainly remembered fondly for pure nostalgia and because they had great toylines (which was the whole point), the shows themselves absolutely do not stand on their own and in a vacuum.
I like 80s music, 80s films, 80s fashion, really the majority of 80s things, but the cartoons were easily the lowest media point of the decade.

>>153662281
Americans are fucking prudes unless its about war

>>153662029
Turns out hiring your nepofriends from tumblr isn't a good long-term strategy for your series, I wouldn't even call fanfiction tier because even AO3 fanfiction nowadays is of better quality than them

>>153662281
>Do parents in America force their kids to watch age appropriate shows?
Yes. That's called parenting. I got to watch the simpsons, if that makes you feel better.

File: zxglzjjd7r1f1.jpg (147 KB, 1170x1620)

147 KB JPG

>>153662172
>Have not seen the others or even heard of a few of them.
How young are you? All those and more aired in Toonami
https://youtu.be/hADGS93dGO4?si=7j9LkqyY-iJPQX7Z

>>153662460
I didn't watch toonami, that was when the boring cartoons came on.

>>153662108
>Saint Seiya, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Samurai X, Fullmetal Alchemist
I went to HS in the early-mid 2000s and I wouldn't say that any of these shows were mainstream popular. Not anywhere near the level of Naruto, let along DBZ or Pokemon/YuGiOh. A fair amount of kids did watch them, but it was pretty much exclusively 'anime kids' who were particularly and above-average 'into anime'. If DBZ/Naruto/One Piece were A tier popular, these were at least B-C tier.

>>153662172
Fetus

>>153662378
Thank god I had shit parents...wait...
>>153662281
Yeah they were retarded back then and now they are a different kind of retarded.

>>153658637
no stakes, no resolution, characters written according to however the writer was feeling that day because they dont know in which order the network is going to arrange the episodes.

Over the Garden wall avoids this by being such a tightly wound clock of a show that nothing really feels wasted, but most shows aren't written like that.

>>153662336
>hiring your nepofriends from tumblr
That's a bullshit myth.

File: FlirtingVsHarassment.png (1.98 MB, 1604x1305)

1.98 MB PNG

>>153658637
The real backlash to "lore" cartoons is the fact its always tacked onto a episodic comedy for children. For a while this fooled viewers into thinking these shows would evolve into serialized epics capable of tackling mature subjects and decent writing like the action cartoons of the 90s-2000s.
Ironically to see the format done right, all you really need to do is watch the average action show before 2013. This reveals the real truth, episodic cartoons are not the proper avenue for lore.

>>153663551
Wrong.

>>153663551
Right.

>>153659633
>>153660108
>When those LORE shows started in the 2010s people thought we were about to get story driven cartoons but that didn't happen.

No, we got LORE because corporate executives wouldn't allow story-driven cartoons because they wanted to air RERUNS.

If you thought you were going to get a serialized story because the show was trying to give an impression of worldbuilding and that there was more to it than what was going on in any given episode, it's your own fault for being RETARDED.

>>153663551
>the average action show before 2013
>average
No.

>>153659764
>I think Gravity Falls did a good job of paying off the things it set up. And I think Amphibia particularly really stuck the landing.
This. so much. I wholeheartedly agree 100%.

>>153658637
most "lore" is deliberately vague
its a constant shifty wishy washy thing where events and people are constantly alluded to but never crystallized
they sometimes might trot out an answer or detail but only if it creates more questions
its the constant implying of depth without actually creating lore, just keep on implying it

>>153658637
Watch ATLA or Venture Bros for examples of consistent and coherent world building that is woven throughout the series.
Compare that to modern lore shows where you'll have an episode here and there that goes "here is this character's backstory that was never mentioned before and will never be brought up again unless we feel like it" and then all the other episodes are business as usual. Why should I care about a character if their actions aren't affected or meaningfully contextualized by their backstory? It's cheap and lazy.

>>153658637
Buzzword that becomes popular to describe something that has always existed in storytelling drives autists who can't understand that it's just a buzzword into a tizzy. So they automatically think detailed narrative = BAD because they have the brain capacity of a peanut.

>>153661182
> show that is just a rehash of all of the other shows that came before it.
Everything is a rehash of everything else, how many western non-lore cartoons are just generic comedy 272762673263? Anime had a lot of generic stuff while also having a lot more variety in what concepts have been explored. It's weird how cartoons have to go all in one direction or another. Why can't we have both lore shows and comedy toons all at once?
> Because it presents paper thin philosophies that sort of make the audience think
Just like basically all fictional media that is not literature but I don't mind even if it's not the deepest. Even if it's basic the philosophy and ideas presented in something like Votoms still stand the test of time after 40 years. That's something that good lore cartoons should achieve to do. Atla has an ever weaker philosophy than that and yet people still talk about it since it's one of the few western cartoons that did it.
>>153662101
Absolutely this. A show being a toy commercial doesn't make it worse or better.

>>153658637
Lore is garbage.

>>153661771
amd wasn't it like a big nothing in the end?

Is avatar the only good western cartoon with a lot of continuity?

>>153661495
>90s and 2000s came along and raped anime
How the fuck can you claim that when anime was not even that popular? Your statement would only make sense only if it was actual popular and mainstream to begin with but that was never true.

>>153658637
The lore creeps up completely consuming what the show was once about.
Adventure Time used to focus with the lore being in the background but then the lore became the sole focus.

>>153659633
>People just want cartoons with actual stories, worldbulding and character development
Ii want cartoons that actually execute those elements well but I can count on 2 hands the amount of actual good serialized cartoons.

>>153660261
>has replaced good writing, character interaction and sensible world building.
You won't get that out of any lore slop.

>>153662336
>>153662866
It's not a myth. Flapjack was a mistake. Rebecca Sugar pulled many woke vermin to the industry too. They clearly had an agenda and ruined the industry.

>>153663624
Faggot

>>153665034
Nope

>>153658637
4chan contrarian faggotry.What you call "lore" is called a plot or a backstory.Nowadays,cartoons with narratives are popular therefore
channers contrarians are glazing plotless Tom and Jerry/Spongebob/Family Guy type cartoon to stand apart from the crowd
>>153658783
>le meaning
Here comes that meaningless,vague buzzword again
"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe"
But what is there to expect from 4chin manteenagers who shit on "feelings" because you're terrified of being seen as childish

>>153658637
You mean most

>>153665713
Nice cope

File: 2378462378.jpg (94 KB, 850x850)

94 KB JPG

>>153658637
For someone like me that is a fan of both cartoons and anime it's a simple problem of supply and demand. They don't make me necessarily angry but rather disappointed because they are covering the same ground anime has covered in the last 50 years in a shittier while not providing anything special. Of course there are exceptions but most of them feel so ambitionless, especially the franchises in your image because they just lack depth. The anime industry has already given birth to plenty of great series with continuity so most of the times I'd rather watch stuff from that backlog instead of trying new "loooore" cartoons. When it comes to western animation I am more likely to watch an episodic show.

>>153665713
>its da contrarian
This isn't an argument.

>>153658637
It fails to meet expectations. I'll use Gravity Falls as an example: a consistently good, well-written show from start to finish. It went hard on foreshadowing. By the finale, it had become clear they didn't know when they started how they were actually going to end, epitomised by the big symbol wheel, and now all those people solving the ciphers and looking for clues have blue balls.

Writing a detailed world and then slowly revealing it to the viewers is great. There's a tendency to just wing it and try to make it up later, which never works. Of your picrel GF and AT both are guilty, SU had some kind of vision at the start but failed to execute it in later seasons, and I don't know about OH because it was a bad show so I didn't watch much. Amphibia was fine, but not what you'd really call a "lore drip" show.

>>153666089
It is

>>153658637
An overemphasis on set-up and background information for the actual story to be lackluster is the epitome of wasted effort. Focusing on world-building before a good story is putting the cart before the horse.

>>153666182
>a consistently good, well-written show from start to finish.
I wouldn't call Gf that.

It's really just not very good in the kinds of shows /co/ talks about.

>>153665713
Bad cope

>>153666399
I meant aside from the story/lore. The actual scenes and dialogue clicked. You may disagree.

>>153666434
I found most of the dialogue rather weak. The characters had some heartwarming interactions and decent development but man a lot of the humor wasn't for me at all.

>>153658637
The majority weren't made with lore in mind, so it just looks awkward when they include it. Even SU had Ocean Gem as the end of the show in case it didn't take off and it shows how after Jailbreak all conflicts are handled anti-climatically.

File: 1591879100671.png (753 KB, 1280x1061)

753 KB PNG

>>153658637
Most "lore heavy" media suffers from 3 major issues:

>The Lore isn't established in the work from the start, it's build upon whatever the writers worked on for many episodes, leading to them being bound and having to future proof bullshit, or worse, abort certain developments because of it.

>Often, you are asking for fans to "look in between the lines" or pay attention for certain developments that are often outside the context of the episode, which most won't do and shows poor storytelling

>Leaving it to "fans" to pick the pieces and interpret what's happening is a sure fire way to suicide, just look at how insane TADC fans are, or how many god awful video essays about Adventure Time exists. This becomes an extra problem when the show's writing changes to validate the fans

now stare at these clowns

>>153658637
because its the easiest thing in the world to fuck up. unless your story is fully written from start to finish, chances are you're going to piss off half your fans no matter how you end it. I honestly don't even think adventure time was supposed to be serialized and it shows, because a lot of the "lore drops" they wound up doing tended to just be connecting two unrelated elements from earlier episodes.

>>153667685
AT was never serialized

>>153661399
it's never done in earnest, it's clearly always bait to draw in people who otherwise probably wouldn't watch the show at all otherwise.

>>153667650
>Leaving it to "fans" to pick the pieces and interpret what's happening is a sure fire way to suicide, just look at how insane TADC fans are, or how many god awful video essays about Adventure Time exists. This becomes an extra problem when the show's writing changes to validate the fans
this is inevitable. for slow burn shows, fans will come up with these headcanons that the community at large will then begin to accept as true canon and then you'll piss a bunch of them off when it turns out, spoilers, girl character 1 and girl character 2 aren't lesbians and aren't in love with each other. i mean it's better to just ignore these people entirely, but they tend to be the loudest in any online nerd community. bubblegum and marceline were never intended to be dykes, and I'm curious to see what would have happened if they ended the show without making that a thing.

Backstory > lore

>>153660113
I blame Earthbound and Kirby.

>>153658637
Simple, execution.
Lore can be good when presented seamlessly within the narrative; but will fall apart when it takes the audience out of the experience.

>>153668288
You shouldn’t

My personal complaint is that a lot of times I get the sense that everything needs a thorough and in depth explanation. Personally, I'd prefer if things were a bit more "show" rather than "tell." Or if nothing else, a bit more left to the imagination rather than expressed and explicit explanation and exposition. But that's just my smelly popinyot.

>>153659440
Nigga im 26 and hate lore cartoons, you wont get shit with the limitations of kid shit before getting cancelled because no one but the creators inner circle care. If i want lore i would just watch a movie, read a book, pretty much anything else than a cartoon of 11 minutes per episode.

>>153668407
>shit with the limitations of kid shit
Interesting would you like it more if it was something akin to good seinen anime that is not written for kids? I agree that loreshit doesn't work in children's cartoons that well.

File: 1772178317816493.png (76 KB, 240x240)

76 KB PNG

Because lorefags think EVERYTHING needs lore. You can't have an episode of show that stands on it's own. Nosir! It needs to be connected to every other episode by some form of cryptic symbolism.

it was pretty funny to see some people trying to find lore in smiling friends

>>153669074
>You can't have an episode of show that stands on it's own
gravity falls had an anthology episode in the middle of its run

>>153662866
Rebecca Sugar and co where hired straight up from tumblr lmao

File: kaledya_-1829815810463801(...).jpg (274 KB, 1666x1030)

274 KB JPG

>>153659922
>>153659975
Wait wait, not that anon, but people hated GF's ending? I thought the only thing people didn't like about it was Stanley getting his memories back?

File: july_23_2006.jpg (452 KB, 1293x953)

452 KB JPG

How the tables become turntables

>>153665391
Makes you glad that Sugar got a taste of her own medicine with Zuke in her own show, fuck this bitch

>>153658637
I don't hate it but I find less and less time to dedicate myself to watching things episode by episode to follow a story

>>153658637
Because they over emphasize the importance then dont deliver

>>153670820
Newfriends don't remember how bitter /gfg/ was about season 2 in general.

>>153660198
>>153660215
>>153660669
I mean like princess bubblegum sucks and everyone cares more about fucking her then liking her and I can’t blame them.

Also AT is just like a weird Dungeons And Dragons sort of thing but after an apocalyptic war, so I like that and what not. Especially that Cosmic Citadel and the guardians, THAT was cool.
The lich too, and Susie and the other mutants and bmo.

Butttt yeah this was definitely a crappy millennial made garbage, if pendleton is a millennial idk.

>>153671139
You are crappy

>>153670128
The segment where Stan has the truth-speaking dentures in has him admit that he regularly commits tax fraud. The reveal later on that he has been pretending to be his missing twin brother this whole time recontextualizes that in-character gag line into MORE LORE. Cope.

>>153658704
FPBP

>>153663551
I don't give a shit about what you're saying because the image is inherently wrong. Avatar had numerous breather episodes that feel divested from the broader narrative, Ben 10 was an episodic series that had occasional event episodes and then went back to being episodic. Star Vs & Steven Universe both had the lore slowly take over the comedy. In Star's case, they tried to maintain the episodic nature and paid the iron price for it (a muddled mess of a final season that lost viewers and can't be rewatched in any other order). SU actually bit the bullet and became nearly entirely serialized with extreme tonal shifts whenever it had a breather episode that late in the game, resulting in a less muddled mess yet a mess none the less.
Back in the day they didn't call it Lore they called it "the main narrative" and it was a 500 piece puzzle you kept coming back to on the kitchen table between games of Tag or Smash Brothers. Now the puzzle pieces are part of a scavenger hunt and you've gotta track them down before you can even start to put them together, resulting in twice the effort for half the payoff when it turns out that either the picture you're making is goatse or there are a couple dozen pieces completely missing.

>>153671691
But Ben 10 lore didn’t fuck up the show, for the most part.

>>153671930
I agree, but that's not what I'm arguing about. I'm arguing against the assertion that it was serialized when it absolutely fucking wasn't, and the image is trying to create a false dichotomy positioning "serialization" as some perfect method of storytelling and lying about the show that did serialization and still ended up a mixed bag (Steven Universe) to support its argument.

Stick to your kids shows.

>>153672615
Lol, seethe

>>153672701
Lol, go to bed.

>>153665085
>>153661619

>>153658637
Because often times it's used to simulate the illusion of depth, when it's really a justification for bad storytelling and railroading the plot in a certain direction.

>>153658704
FPWP. Didn't even bother explaining your position properly.

>>153673516
Well, looking at the stuff in the OP you can’t really say that he’s completely wrong, and i like Adventure Time.

>>153660160
Yeah it does don't cope
>>153660175
You sound retard.

>>153658637
Because a lot of writers and fans confuse lore with story

>>153658637
When people used "deep lore" as a mocking phrase towards a show, I always took it as the tone was meant to disparage the pretentious nature of these cartoons "trying" and failng to be deep. Not that they have continuity or hidden plot at all. That's the main reason lore has annoyed people, it took over a show trying to be fun with creators and writers being too far up their own ass for stuff they're not really capable of. It just feels like jerking each other off for these totally rad and epic reveals and teases that are more often than not retarded and/or unnecessary to diverge into.

>>153674809
You cope

>>153658637
I hate when the lore is really important to enjoying the show and they put dozens of filler episodes that "flesh out" the normal parts of the setting, but leave the world-building of the more interesting parts of the setting for season finales or later seasons.

>>153674809
you sound newfag, so don't arrest