Criticism for being a toy commercial is retarded because it doesn't actually say anything about the quality of the show.

>>153715287
It's an unfair and utterly childish "criticism". You don't sell anything without being compelling. Most 80s cartoons had strong storylines and compelling characters. They get rebooted for a reason.

Try articulating like a non-NPC why being a "toy-commercial" is bad. Explain that if you can. You've already lost, because 80s cartoons still endure.

>>153715320
They endure because people at the top keep betting on people’s nostalgia making money despite it repeatedly failing to match the original popularity

>>153715287
These cartoons were criticized by people who worshipped steven universe and my little pony btw

>>153715287
>"Moichandising! Where the real money is made!"

>>153715307
The only one that worked was transformers second GI Joe, He-Man was like one frame of animation.

>>153715349
Then why dont they bring back stuff that isnt making merch or selling toys?
Im sure there is nostalgia there?

Want to know a big reason? There is a real world tangible thing to hold. To tie them to that thing. To fully immerse themselves into that world.

Why is dbz still popular but art shit aimed at a subsection of a subsection of people or esoteric shit impenetrable yo all but a few and only yo people who are at a certain place on their life?

It ties to universal themes and gives people real world...play/game patterns to follow.

Art for arts sake as spoken by the arteest class is one part masturbation one part childish screams for attention.

>>153715378
what? the bronies love 80s and 90s cartoons because Friendship is Magic is literally that.

>>153715430
Bronies weren't very smart

>>153715430
Bronies at about what a 2 year run, the only people still into that crap are either mentally damaged individuals who are going to go shoot someone or degenerates who have way too many creepy fetishes usually involving vore and extreme torture

>>153715349
>angry childish tantrum ranting
Awwwwwwww izzums you MAD your generation sucks so bad at story creation? Awwwwww.

Should I even bother to argue with such a child who can't even grasp what's wrong with his ranting bullshit?

>>153715422
Because it’s less risky to just try to make old IPs make money than try new things. That’s late stage capitalism, we can’t make new things because how am I going to make my bonuses if I risk failure. Easier to just convince my bosses to try nostalgia for the billionth time because occasionally it pays dividends and you can always blame something else if it fails because after all it has already proven to have made money in the past.

>>153715378
>These cartoons were criticized by people who worshipped steven universe and my little pony btw

They are criticized by john K fans. He's the guy that constantly complained about kt. He wrote into magazines to complain about it. He made fake names to complain about it. It's in the commentaries. He made the LOG song.

Guy hated being answerable to anyone. The toy company, advertisers, executives, and the fans. Everyone is stupid but John.

But here is the thing. Ren and Stimpy still sold crap. It sold cable packages with nick. It sold ad time. It sold the products in those commercials. Its not some how pure art because it wasnt made to sell toys.

Toy cartoons are great if for only one reason: from the first day everyone is asking what kids want. Its constantly thinking about the kid. Dislikes, likes. What csn we provide the kid that will make them happy? Whats fun for the kid? Why? Because he has to like <show> enought to spend money. Artists fill books with ideas and the play test toys. They are constantly considering the child.

Creator driven shows? Who knows. It feels like more and more creator driven shows never ask themselves what the viewer wants. They just make something they would want. Or worse, just do things to be weird or antagonize viewers. They dont even like the show they are working on. They just need a job to pay off their student loans

>>153715287
No executives are doing that amount of drugs anymore.

>>153715349
>hurrrrrrrrr
>things were bad THEN because people suck TODAY
>hurrrrrrrrrrr

>>153715530
Late stage capitalism is an excuse for narcissist and sore losers.

Work your way up towards your own IP, stop relying on old fucking money and make it yourself. Then don't fucking shoot yourself on the foot by being retarded on social media or fucking a fan like they always do and you should be fine.

People have been blaming late stage capitalism for over a fucking century or stuck in their definition of modern being in the fucking 50s, quit with the excuses of ideology and just fucking work on your shit.

>>153715530
All of your arguments are delusions of your own broken mind
>muh bosses
>muh raises
>muh imagined scenarios
You have a retarded child brain and you're obviously low IQ.

>>153715287
Most cartoons are garbage.

>>153715287
When does a show become a toy commercial?
Were Spider-man/Batman the animated series toy commercials because they sold toys? Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers? TMNT? Shadow Raiders? Teddy Ruxpin?

>>153715619
Nope

>>153715547
Ren and stimpy selling has as much to do with nicks marketing and reach as it does John K.
On his own he cant sell anything and he isnt interested in meeting the audience half way.

>>153715530
What do you call the decades of creator driven shows and streaming shows?
New stuff.
Its mostly failed only making waves with the usual groups and social media bubbles. They need to accept that its for small niches and doesnt have mass appeal.

>>153715619
20s cartoons*

>>153715287
They are also criticized for being poorly animated, cheesy and repetitive. Compare gay shit like He-man with Fist of the North Star or Macross and you will realize how trashy burger cartoons from that era actually were. Characters werent even allowed to throw punches.

>>153715696
Yes.
>>153715726
*All of cartoon history.

A bigger problem is probably juat how many people are in animation that dont want to work on other people's stuff. They don't care about what the company wants, what the network wants, they dont really care about what their own team wants. Its just a job they have to do to pay their bills. They are only going to care if they get their own show. If they get to animate their own ideas.

Cal arts is like $80k a year now. These people are graduating with like $320k in debt. No wonder they hate everyone and everything and put out garbage

>>153715713
This might be shocking revelation to you but most things fail.

>>153715684
From day one usually. They are oft made with marketing a product in mind.
Same for live action movies to be honest.

>>153715892
Yes.
But the stuff that suceeds usually has the same things in common.
And we cant predict the future, only hedge our bets and in some instances get lucky.

You guys realize it wasn't just that the cartoons were designed to sell toys right?
It was more like
>Episode airs
>New character appears
>Smack dab in the middle of the show, a commercial for the merchandise would be airing letting kids know that this character is available in the new "Action man bad guy's lair" playset.
Keep in mind, they've also had to revisit this "childrens advertising regulations" time and time again. In the 90s, it was revisited during Pokemania as it became clear everything about pokemon was designed to advertise everything else about Pokemon.

McDonalds has had to tread very carefully with how they handle stuff like McDonaldLand because of these same regulations. Which is why you never saw a proper TV show

The biggest example though was a superhero cartoon based on Skechers. The characters were named different from each shoe they were meant to advertise but the problem was so bad that kids would be asking for the shoes by the heroes names.

Glitch are staying barely within bounds by making the merch ads separate from the shows proper.
The rule also varies heavily based on a tiny little loophole within Youtube. The same one that saved Jake Paul and Logan Paul during all the Prime controversies.

Sure, you and I know Digital Circus has an audience of predominantly kids and teens, but can you PROVE they're the target demographic?
Did you not hear the censored curse words and references to SEX. Did you not see the VISIBLE FIREARMS?

It's a little magic trick. A sleight of hand if you will.

Online content is largely unrated. Sure you throw it on Netflix and it rates it but Netflix doesn't have the merchandise ads.

And remember all kids are minors but not all minors are kids. Exploitative advertising towards kids is gonna be more regulated because they're gonna pester their parents. Exploitative advertising towards 16 year olds with part time jobs? In the Us, they're "walking disposable income", priority market for manipulative marketing

>>153715530
It was brought up in previous threads, but it's mostly because toy companies are fucking struggling to stay relevant in terms of their action figure or Doll IPs, it's why the Barbie movie was allowed to roast the franchise Brady Bunch movie style.
The big goal is to make the IPs relevant enough to license them out.
Look at all the recent GI Joe, they're all like, "retro", "classics", et cetera. They're all designed to appeal to this idea of the collector's market.

The big exception seems to be Nerf. Nerf adapted weirdly fucking perfectly to the current landscape because it's extremely interactive and can be used for competitive or to play pretend. It's a good way for kids to socialize. "Prop" toys in general are probably gonna be around for a while

>>153715748
Ehhhh, I cant comment on fist, but Macross was notorious for using the animation budget for a fight or sequence and then bringing in the C team to animated some hideous garbage or doing a "thinking" episode where its mostly barely moving images while the characters think over them. The episode after max and Myria fiest fight has some of the worst animation of the entire show.

He man was a mixed bag. I feel like they abused the shit out of rotoscoping. And then had the audacity to trace the animation from the tracing of the rotoscoping and that was the reason all the men had the same body type. BUT, heman had some wonderful backgrounds. And it was worlds better than the shit the US was doing in 1975.

He man shouldn't be compared to anime being propped up with toy and model sales but to american cartoons in the 70s like fucking Grape Ape

https://youtu.be/D_d583FHxPQ

>>153716075
>The big exception seems to be Nerf. Nerf adapted weirdly fucking perfectly to the current landscape because it's extremely interactive and can be used for competitive or to play pretend.

Nerf is the only game in town for a good built play gun. The knock offs usually have mechanisms that break

>>153716091
North Star was good but was trying to bring art as detailed and beautiful as Tetsuo Hara's into animation with 80s tech and budget.
It's why they rebooted recently.

Another thing is that Hokuto was objectively for teens. You need to understand that this is "Mad Max starring Bruce Lee who causes villains internal organs to explode" and the second arc literally begins the hero facing down a cult which decapitates fathers and brothers in front of their wives and daughters to emotionally break them into sex slaves.

That's always gonna be a point of contention when you compare a shounen and especially a classic shounen like North Star to Western animated counterparts. The comparison is fundamentally unfair because this was a time when the Japanese basically went from "g" to "r" in terms of what a kid was allowed to watch

>>153716202
>It's why they rebooted recently.
And no one is watching it because it's CGI
I saw /a/ threads for it die in real time

>>153715748
Blame your (great) grandparents being "concerned" about violence in cartoons that ain't Popeye or Looney Tunes.

>>153716275
Which makes it all more hilariously and ironically hypocritical

>>153715287
80s
>130 episodes per year
Now
>8 episodes in 4 years

>>153716949
Youre right.
Consistency and caring about the audience is key.
A new ep every day or so or constant syream of content is key.

If I made a show then weekly drops of episodes an active website and socizl mefia presnce would be key.
Even dropping shorts made specifically for shortform content sites would be created.

>>153716202
I think people also dont account for how much money eas being pumped into jp shows at the time.

1. It was the big economic boom. Loans were easy to get
2. Wages for animators were suppressed
3. Japan had already learned the lesson of star wars. Shows+toys+models+tie in branding for candy, food, etc. It wasnt really until heman that people took notice. And as mentioned, the government kept playing with the legislation to prevent toy block busters like star wars and heman. Tranaformers and gijoe got around it by letting marvel make comics and the box art not fully looking like the cartoons. Technically, legally, the cartoons and toys were made from the comics, bypassing the laws on cartoons selling toys back in 82, 83. That's part of how and why the gi Joe comic actually got commercials back in 82/83. Anyway, japan didnt have to deal with that. They were able to funnel a lot of merch money back to the owner of the IP.

Part of this is why so many early 80s cartoons could afford to animate in japan. This woukd peter out around 87, 88, when the cost of production went up and more episodes were shifting to south Korea.

>>153715750
Kys

>>153715287

This show is highly satanic because it has DEMONS and HOMERSEXUALS

>>153717182
Fuck off

>>153717182
>HOMERSEXUALS
>Sees powerful men
>Has gay throughts.
Your mind has become satan's playground, anon. Normal men see something to aspire to, not lust over.

>>153717424
Eh, I dont think anyone really thought they coild be heman.

It was a fun show with fun characters.

>Noooooo I'm already He Man. You can play as Orko

>>153715287
Are you surprised the retards making the last decade's worth of beantoons are hypocrites?

>>153717424
Back in the 80s, He-Man was accused of being satanic propaganda and homosexuality is satanic by definition

>>153715405
Gundam was pretty good