Normies do not care about indie animation, they only care about Glitch products and waifu slop. Notice how little views indie pilots get when they aren’t under the glitch umbrella. Normies do not care about actual art or entertainment, only what is big with lots of marketing and they are holding actual art back. They don’t allow little creators any kind of help or mercy. Tragedy of the commons. Pic unrelated.
shut up pan
>>153776987Did Robert Stainton give a fuck about views? Hell no! He wanted to make a web series about reading signs and logo parodies. What matters is the niche your fandom serves, and not the overall exposure your project has in general.
>>153776987>Nearly 1 million>Little viewsMaybe the issue here is how excessively inflated the metric for success has become?
>>153777116>nearly 1 millionAnon a crappy Newgrounds parody from 2008 could get more views than that
>>153776987Planetronika got a Millie in a few days because the artist is just smarter. Sorry but, brainlets who bull moose aren't owed attention
>>153777116Planetonika got 1.3 million views in 10 days
>>153777238>add waifu fan service that’s the only thing people talk about because the actual show is balls Yep pretty smart there
>>153776987>The future of cartoons is creators trying to gain the attention of the algorithm as much as possiblePeople say where's in some indie renaissance, but all I see is fags making soulless cash grabs.
>>153777372You say that like companies haven’t been makin soulless cash grabs for decades
>>153777116It still hurts their wallet and self esteem when years of work lands with this.
>>153777372How do you even get the attention of the algorithm? Is it just a lucky draw? Or is it about maximizing your title, thumbnail SEO?
>>153777458>Is it just a lucky draw?Yes, it's ALWAYS a lucky draw.>t. made a few low-effort videos that gained thousands of views
>>153776987>Pan
Mommy, what is botting.
>>153776987Remember El Tigre? They looks like the villains from it>31:19Gameoverse pilot was pretty much the same length and I only watched it because people wouldn't shut up about it.
>>153776987>Normies do not care about indie animation, they only care about Glitch products and waifu slop.Pan is the worst example you could use because he's the exact issue with the system. Some faggot E-celeb that milked the algo to build a following then pivoted to some half baked concept instead of actually honing the craft to make something good.The hypocrisy of the community is best illustrated by /co/ itself in the fact that a board with hundred if not thousands of users seems to never dig through or stumble on some small time project and promote it. The only things you will ever see on here are what s trending and retards still wonder why only generic slop is visible.
>>153777573>I only watched it because people wouldn't shut up about it.Same, but I had to watch ReBoot beforehand because I needed a serious palette cleanser.
It would be cool if America could have an actual functioning doujinshi market for independent creatives could be supported
>>153777706You want something niche? Here https://youtu.be/J3_AgyFK94o?si=eAvNZTNacudEt6_M
>>153776987The problem with LOKI IRL is I can never tell whos a human and whos an IRL since Pan draws everyone like hyperstylized scrimblos. But a battle tournament show in a who framed roger rabbit live action meets 2D style would be cool. Sadly I doubt Pan has the acting skills for it.
>>153777728what's stopping them aside from weird cultural hangups?
>>153777940Nobody really cares about art. It’s a very niche thing. Not to mention the art scene is thought of as very left-leaning so it’s plagued by Woke nonsense
>>153778148There are many problems with this xeet, but the biggest one is that comparing GV to SB isn't fair at all. SB is an episodic slapstick comedy, while GV's aiming to be a serialized dramedy.
>>153776987Mfs wanna pretend they care about animation when they can get a metric fuckton of views and likes on a post. And also I'll admit it's nice seeing Glitch getting fucked at all sides from the fans. >>153777116For a show to be even remotely successful in this era you need at least 10 to 30 million views. 1 million isn't impressive anymore for an indie cartoon when a large chunk of the population is online.
>>153778201They're talking about Planetronika, not Gameoverse.
>>153778265My mistake, all these talking points feel so similar that it's easy for me to confuse them with one another.
>>153777782tryhard John K. nerdwaifu slop. it's ASS
At least they're gaining more traction than most greenlit and produced series from the industry
>>153778347Yeah, I won't lie when I say Leslie and Brianne were the better R&S-type duo.
>>153777782I usually don't side with the "this is not funny, this is just porn" crowd but...
>>153776987>This hit 773kGenuinely sorta impressed, I thought it would get 500k max
>>153776987Everyone looks so weird in that show you can't even tell what's supposed to be a cartoon character or what's supposed to be a human cartoon character
>>153777116I mean, if you want an indie pilot to succeed you need a bit more than a million if you want to foster a healthy-sized fanbase in order to fund the next one. YouTubebux just don't pay out like they used to so you can't even rely on just views, you want to funnel those views into your patreon and that's only possible to be sustainable if you have enough eyes on your shit.
>>153779877Yeah apparently the main way to differentiate the humans from the cartoons character is the lines the cartoon are more sketchy
>>153776987"Normies" don't watch Glitch slop at all
>>153780328He really absolutely knows nothing about how to make a cartoon does he.
>>153776987i didn't have the courage to watch this pilot because it sounded mega cringe. Like the guys videos but I can't take that artstyle or premisse seriously.
>>153780569idk, i never had any problem knowing which characters are which in chalkzone, but then again you usually only have two human characters and the rest are chalk most of the time.
>hovering 700k for months nowOoooof
>>153778265Planetronika was a nothingburger too. I didn't laugh, cry, or giggled or anything.
>>153776987It's because Pan doesnt know how to market or make an attractive thumbnail.
>>153782851>but then again you usually only have two human characters and the rest are chalk most of the time.This is why. Rudy/human characters are drawn with thick outlines while Snap/chalk characters are drawn in...well, a chalky texture. Easy difference.
>>153783008This too. His thumbnail/video title game is stuck in the 2012 Top10 era of YouTube.
>>153776987The ppg?
>>153782808Oh, Loki IRL is very cringe. Most of watched because we knew how long RebelTaxi had been working on this. It's charming as a self-indulgent little passion project, but lacking on a technical and narrative sense.
>>153777116Bitch you can get better views than that making Paw Patrol fan animations
>>153776987Loki IRL has been my favorite indie pilot so far.
>>153777458Connections bribes. Nothing just happens anymore.
>>153783992Mine's been WLH, the Adulting reference alone was worth a chuckle.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sso57rrNcoU
>>153777782I still wish this guy would do something: https://youtu.be/P8U22dvli4w
>>153784038I've never wanted to click on a thumbnail less
>>153777188>>153783664There's a huge difference getting 1M views on a 90 second video or a short compared to 1M views on a 30-min pilot
Meanwhile, some silly nonsense about gay rotoscoped dancing birds: 7.4M views in less than 2 weekshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp4_7T9J6Fg
>>153784583Cuz it's funny, while.pan crap is unfunny unoriginal, literally you're complaining about the guy using rotoscope but at least he used real things pan can't even attempt to draw he only uses cartoons as reference Loki is literally a rip off of the samurai Jack a villain, the whole show is just referencing cartoons from cartoon Network from the 2000s. There's a big difference there's no creativity in his work it's just Pokemon but cartoons with different styles but he doesn't even understand the different styles of animation. He has a very surface level he doesn't use different techniques like for example why not have one of the characters running at different frame rates, or 1950s animation style with the weird faces he just doesn't understand anything because all he has done with his life is watching cartoons and complain about them. He falls into the camp of not understanding how to do anything the same thing happened to The angry video game nerd when he actually tried to make a movie turns out it's a lot harder than complaining about movies. On top of that pan doesn't know actually how to draw outside his very blocky style he doesn't break things down to really understand the shape construction he doesn't understand anything
>>153783664>toddler videos get loads of views We already know why that is and it doesn't count.
>>153785030There's a lot of single character in Pans slop that is appealing in any way paw patrol at least has characters that look good his stuff looks like it took a crap on God and God destroyed him with fire and salt
>>153776987The problem is that you can't just make a single animation and call it a "pilot" because there's functionally no difference between a "pilot" on Youtube and whatever a Newgrounds animator regularly puts out. If you want a pilot to be picked up, you need an established audience, you need money behind the pilot, and you need the pilot to do well.Glitch was an established company before they started pumping out stuff. Vivzie got Spindlehorse set up before Hazbin was greenlit for Amazon.
>>153777458This may be shocking, but you just have to make something actually good, preferably multiple times. Good things spread by themselves. If they don’t, they’re either bad or super niche, but even niche will get views if it’s good.
>>153787184Even bad will get views because there will never be accounting for taste.But people can't like this stuff, good or bad, if they don't know it exists. It's why everything spends over half its budget on advertising these days.
>>153776987>they only care about Glitch products and waifu slopIs this wrong though? I genuinely can't think of a successful indie cartoon with a male protagonist
>>153787184>Actually goodI make storyboard animatics that people have told me are funny that they’ve personally laughed at with decent art, but some don’t have voice acting and some do. They don’t get much views, and I think it’s because a lotta people get turned off when a cartoon isn’t in color and “Fully Finished”. Shit takes a long time man, I’d rather make animatics to be able to get more volume out there than if I had one fully colored/animated but it takes a whole year. I feel like audiences have too high expectations for internet animation, or just expect you to bust your ass.
>>153787659>I genuinely can't think of a successful indie cartoon with a male protagonistSpace King?
>>153784151You're missin out bruv
>>153776987Hey pan, I've always wanted to know. Is that abortion thing real, did that happen to you dawg or was that a one off bit?
>>153776987>they only care about Glitch products and waifu slopmuch like this board?
>>153777706>never dig through or stumble on some small time project and promote it I really hate when people go WHY DOESN'T THIS HAVE MORE VIEWS/FOLLOWERS when it's shit that has over 80k views or a webcomic that has around the same subs. Shit that obviously has a community around it yet they're acting like it's some unseen gem.But if it's something that's below 2k views or subs then you get accused of being a shill or the creator. As much people love to preach 'numbers don't matter' it'll always determine how they'll view it.
>>153783664I love SparkFrog's animations so much man the Moby one is my favorite :)
>>153789727Don't talk to me pedo
>>153776987Shut up Pan
>>153789831Moby is my favorite villain boy in Paw Patrol :)
>make cartoon for other people to enjoy for free>become lolcowHow do we stop this?
>>153790040>More like belongs in the >>>/trash/
>>153776987Whatever happened to the Pizza Party Podcast? It's been years since I watched it.
>>1537902342 of the guys, forgot who, kinda became a shitter dumbass and sank the ship and ruined everything Jim is safe
>>153776987As much as I dislike Gooseslop, I can at least appreciete that he understands character motivations with storytelling. Pan can't even do that. Ash from Pokemon has a deeper motivational arc than any of Pan's characters, which is fucking atrocious when this is something he has been sitting on as a concept for more than 10 years now.He could never finish the webcomic, why do you think him doing a show would be any better?
>>153790555>Sitting on a concept for 10+ years>It ends up as shitI’m noooticing
>>153790555I still don't know why Bianca and the rest of the people who have IRLs are battling each other. Is it for fame? Fortune? Internet clout? We will never know...
>>153776987I dig the suit design for those three, nice placement for decal on the tummy and crotch.
>>153777027low key
>>153776987>Normies do not care about actual artThis times infinity. They have a sheer utter lack of curiosity, refuse to get out of the mainstream bubble and measure quality with commercial success.Plus, their attention spans are fried thanks in no small part to a certain clock app. And Netflix are banking on that. They're forcing writers to dumb things down for brainfried morons who refuse to put their phones down for even five minutes.
>>153776987Having a light watch of this, I had fun. It's pretty dripping with visual delight. Even if the music's not exactly my usual stuff, it's not too in the face and becomes a fairly natural part of the scenes mostly because I feel like the integration of the music choice was done confidently with the style of the show. Bianca not getting her win out the gate allowed space for her to grow but I really was kind of curious what that cursed power thing is. And she has a couple of supportive friends. I spotted a few pretty good background designs, might have to come back to it later.I'm gonna take the whole IRL thing as just... it's part of the world. Like Medabots where teens just have fucking robots and duels with a ref that pops out of nowhere for the hell of it.
>>153776987I hate the discourse around "indie animation" because it's turned what used to be a raw, thankless passion into yet another commercial enterprise. First the internet turned Del Toro's plea for animation to be seen as a legitimate artform into a mockery, now it's a disgrace to even be labeled as "indie."
>>153790555>I can at least appreciete that he understands character motivations with storytellingEh, based on what I've seen of the finale I disagree with that hard but I suppose it's still better than this Loki shit which fails on even the most basic level.
>>153790604It's more a perfect example why you should almost never attempt to turn your adolescent ideas into a big production, Gameoverse is another example.
>>153790040A villain, you say? When does he start sucking dick and eating shit? :)
>>153776987I was prepared to hate it but Loki IRL wasn't that bad, parts of it actually felt quite clever and charming. Pan did his best with his limited means and got some cool shots and transitions, his choreography was better than expected. While I liked it though I didn't love it and it still feels too rough around the edges given how long he's been working on it. I think the art style and designs hold it back. It's just too stylized in a way that feels unstructured and unskilled instead of intentional and its too hard to tell the toons apart from the real people.
>>153790604It's a pretty well-known pattern. This is mostly because young-ish creators that are putting out their darlings of 10+ years usually came up with the ideas as teenagers and were too attached to ever revise them from that core concept, either because they are over-invested emotionally or they fear that applying professional critique to it will remove the "soul" of it.See: Nimona, High Guardian Spice, Loki IRL, etc.It's also why I think Deltarune will have a critically panned finale, because the entire game (and even the game preceding) is a means to a finale dreamed up nearly 15 years ago.
>>153799345It'll have a panned finale because endings are inherently in opposition to fan culture.
>>153797936>>153799345100% this. Most stories with lengthy gestation periods radically change mid-development: Up started out as a fantasy about a floating city and Madagascar was repurposed from a Beatles mockumentary. The failure to consider new ideas and approaches is the downfall of every adolescent passion project.
>>153799345>This is mostly because young-ish creators that are putting out their darlings of 10+ years usually came up with the ideas as teenagers and were too attached to ever revise them from that core concept, either because they are over-invested emotionally or they fear that applying professional critique to it will remove the "soul" of it.The problem gets even worse when they already have a fanbase, because they're getting constant para-social positive reinforcement. You aren't going reevaluate your creative choices when you're already outperforming most other projects before your first release.
>>153792015Pan's artstyle contradicts his own premise because the most popular fighting oriented characters are going to be battle shonen guy, Cape comic guy, shootem up video game guy and maybe homer rick adult cartoon guy. You need top tier elite level skill and understanding to not only capture the core of those aesthtics but to animate them on the quality people would be satisfied with. If you aren't going to have the anime rep doing sakuga level shit in battle the entire concept is pointless.
>>153801563>Look back on ideas I had in my 20s because the shit from my teens were just fanfics of me fucking Amy Rose from Sonic, or a poorly drawn comic of me fucking nintendo characters>It's weird millenial sadwank with heavy self-inserting in the worst way>think to the stuff I wanna put out now, just wanna love letter shit I love without completely aping it with some self-inserting but the characters are actual characters instead of just "lol me"I'm ready to be crucified.
>>153803146Goodluck anon, post it here so we can stab you in the side to end your pain.
>>153776987Do you realise how many artists can only wish for their indie show to get 770k views? Not every creator needs to do Glitch numbers to be considered successful.
>>153804350So far I don't have much besides some world building and some designs I've yet to draw out, I'm doing it with a friend.I am more than willing to, however write as much as I had regarding the pretentious millenial sadwank if you'd like to cringe.
>>153802161This. I like the show and the idea of a battle anime based on oc's, but if your focus is on battles it dosn't take long on any versus thread/forum to realize focus on hand-to-hand (since he clearly loves drawing punches and other physical actions) ultimately limits it's appeal for oc making...on the other hand thats perfreable to a fandom of nothing but "multiversal+ IRL's"
>>153776987773k for a shitty animation with an ugly artstyle about a dogshit premise is really not bad. But that being said, if he didn't already have an audience this would've pulled 5k views at most.
>>153804669Doing it with a friend sounds like fun, it also helps with the cringe. My own stuff is just for my mental health building up my own comic just for me (originally millennial sad wank with a silver mythological lining). I'm not sure what the best way to leverage the indie boom to start a discussion about personal projects is though. If you want to put a bit here you might as well since this is something of an indie thread.
>>153804926Reminder I was in my 20s and up my own ass:>Supposed to be a subversion of the "Character goes on a journey as a child"/Steven Universe>Even wears a shirt that says "Child Hero" on it hanging onto his fame in his 20s>Character was just a weirdly depressed version of me>Vaguely remember harem elements>Don't even remember the story per se just bits and pieces of things I focused onUgh, I think I'd rather not try and remember anymore to keep it from accidentally poisoning the well.As for the newer idea/world, I'm not gonna say much, but as I said it's me and a buddy gonna just mash all the cool stuff we like into a world.We'll probably never do shit with it save for art/stories, but it'll be fun to do.
>>153805106Yeah, no pressure characters that are just your own mental health problems are my vibe (TADC fan). I'm in the "do it for yourself" camp and just get inspired seeing all the stuff like Monkey Wrench and LokiIRL that are really trying to make their own shows even though half the time they seem to get mocked for it. Also, I like shirt, reminds me of the "beard" shirt in MW.
>>153776987>Notice how little views indie pilots get when they aren’t under the glitch umbrellaDefine "little views" because non-Glitch IPs get millions of views.>Lackadaisy = 5M views just a week after it's premiere>SPACE KINGS = 4M - 8 million views per episode>Helluva Boss = 5M - 10 million views per episode, before Glitch was in the indie production spotlightGod forbid...>Skibidi Toilet = Outmogging the competition with 20M+ views in under a day when it was new and fresh
>>153783442the one you posted was a mix of charming and cringe.the animation is stellar but the pilot lacked focus. it was a good proof of comcept
Pan is a hack, and I mean that in the most clinical scientific way possible. He is a person with a few interesting ideas and designs, but that is far from enough for any kind of series, and it's something you could get from a 9th grader with access to a streaming service. Consuming media does not make you creative; having an audience doesn't make you creative. If your project was not worth sacrificing EVERYTHING to build up to, if you could take a detour to do gay little reviews, then it was never worth anything to begin with.
>>153797936>>153800174Gameoverse had numerous changes from its 2009 original counterpart and the creator put tons of effort into getting it into fruition despite the many obstacles he had in getting approval. He was always a big time animator with stories he told. And he took a lot of time to reworking Gobbles and Flappers to feel like genuine game characters that fit into their game genres. Kit wasn’t in the original series at all. Nor was Marrick. Or Dusk. It’s all new and reworked to have a more proper action adventure series that makes Barney the dinosaur, Gobbles, have a surprisingly solemn theme song as the end credits.
>>153808333I would argue the idea of Gameoverse itself is done to death and wasn't worth clinging onto, he should have spent that time coming up with an actual original concept instead of doing yet another meta video game crossover bullshit thing.
>>153776987>RebelTaxiwho the fuck watches this condescending cuntthe guy is unfunny, doesn't offer more insight the first paragraph of a wiki page and exceptionally shitty taste
TADC content farms had more views than 99% of serious indie pilots
>>153808782Just a hair better than Sabeshart
>>153777188You can just say you thought it was bad. You don't have to pretend that he didn't get a decent amount of views.
>>153808777>I would argue the idea of Gameoverse itself is done to death and wasn't worth clinging onto, he should have spent that time coming up with an actual original concept instead of doing yet another meta video game crossover bullshit thing.Okay, anon. Show me a “crossover” show that worked like a better written Kingdom Hearts formula with permanent consequences on failure and put in the work to make brand new characters that perfectly reflect the game genres they are inspired by while having their own sense of identity entirely. The only thing people lazy and stupid as you is a punch in the face so the blood that comes out of you will be used to draw and script your “original premise”. A complete and utter ritual of pure humbling.
>>153810109FurberSparckles
>>153810285The characters are paper thin, we know nothing about the cat character other than she's some vague Megaman expy. The dino and dolphin are just annoying since it's egoraptor doing his usual shitty voice acting. The video game worlds deleting after they're finished not even getting an ending sequence makes no sense. Other than the show looking good it offers fucking nothing, just the usual jangling keys.
>>153776987I think I made it 12 minutes in before clicking of due to it's garbage art style and now knowing who created it in the first place.
>>153810285>Show me a “crossover” show that worked like a better written Kingdom Hearts formula with permanent consequences on failure and put in the work to make brand new characters that perfectly reflect the game genres they are inspired by while having their own sense of identity entirely.Wreck-it-RalphReBoot
>>153808333Gobbles is oh so cute!
>>153790489>Jim is safeWhat happened to Jim and Izzy? I know Nolan got MeToo'd.
>>153808333I did notice the changes, but there's something that still feels narratively unrefined. It's a pretty solid attempt, but I can't help but feel that it misses on a lot of little things (pacing, sound design, motive, voice direction, tone) that affect the entire production and keep it from achieving its true potential.
Didn't like the pilot, but I did get an idea for an oc for that "world."Basically the guy is an engineer, he has blueprints that depict the front view, side view, and bird eye's view of his character. And his OC manifests as a projection from the blueprints. The OC's artstyle would follow the conventions of blueprints (i.e all visible lines are bold and don't break, while things that shouldn't be visible from that point of view are all thin and broken up lines.)
>look for videos of an old game on YouTube>see a weird thumbnail>it's some guy who uses a goth girl as his rantsona>take a look at the rest of his videos>a butch of fetish animated comics and reviews where he openly talks about his fetishesThe guy is pretty much a weirder, hornier version of Pan Pizza.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvuQHFJXMrg
>>153790040Claw is clearly superior
>>153815687I dig it, got any more?
>>153813744Cute tummy. But is that supposed to be a piercing or an outie bellybutton?
>>153816816Just the navel line in the star decal, part of the suit. He draws in the navel lines for all three.
