>>154142137
Cause toph foesn’t have ecchi scenes. Japan would like it better that way.

>>154142137
>Is Atla not popular in japan because they already have enough of their own stuff which means Avatar ends up not standing out
its literally just this

ATLA is wuxia crossed with star wars and tailor made for the western audience
translating it to japan wouldnt really appeal to anyone other than westaboos

>>154142137
Not that interesting.
>>154142113
>No it isn't several general threads outspeed it when it's out of content hours.
Lying bitch, the only threads that outspeed it are other glitch garbage, death battle and the begininng of a storytime. For the most part it's still the fastets
>You JUST said you didn't pay attention to it, liar.
I pay attention to 4stats not to the board itself. I don't know how popular it was inside the board, only from outside of it.
>The thing you're comparing it too isn't a genderswap and the tranny anime character had literal body mental illness and needed those hrt like meds.
Interesting how you know so much about it, interesting how you also are a fan of digital circus a literal tranny shit, from what I can gather from wikipedia it's genderswaped. It's still a guy that wants to go back to being a guy.
>Cartoons still mog >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all anime slop btw.
Which ones? I've keep trying watching cartoons but they are all boring slop. Even the shitty anime are better than the best.

>>154142153
>>154142137
You also have to consider that there are enough anime that deal with war and have complex characterization so atla wouldn't be that unique, they have even enough wuxia stuff

>>154142137
>No Avatar x Touhou crossover fanart
False

>>154142159
>the best.
the best cartoons.

>>154142137
What has avatar actually done to break through in Japan? When you look at anime series that were running during its time that got big in the west they had spots on major networks with dubs, sure there was a ommunity of anime fans in the west since before the turn of the millenium but if you want to looks at anime that "made it" and became widely popular they all had dubs and at least some major player behind distribution. So basically I want to know what sway did nickelodeon even have in Japan in the 2010s and what efforts did they even make to try and sell AtLA?

>>154142212
They did dub atla from what I know,

>>154142212
>When you look at anime series that were running during its time that got big in the west
You are ignoring the niche internet communities that were only dubbed later. The first op was also talking about pixiv which is cultivated by those communities. Haruhi and Gurren lagann had fans and a lot of OC before they got dubbed in the west because of the fansubbing groups. I do think nickelodeon sabotaged it by throwing it in a bad time slot or something.

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Here's a better question for this thread before the schizos flood in.

Which western cartoon could possibly compete against shounen anime in terms of popularity, large franchise and enduring cultural influence?

The only worthy contenders are the DCAU cartoons like Batman:TAS and Justice League, Avatar: Last Airbender, Teen Titans 2003 and Ben 10.

The others like Gargoyles, Samurai Jack and Kim Possible lack enduring popularity and impact when compared to the above.

Alas. These examples can't beat the juggernaut that is Dragon Ball Z and Pokemon, not to mention the new shounen anime like Chainsawman, Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen.

I'm haven't even begun comparing stuff from other anime genres like Shoujo (Sailor Moon), Seinen(Berserk) and Mecha (Super Robot like Mazinger Z and Real Robots like Gundam or Hybrids like Evangelion.)

>>154142280
the reason all those series survive is because they make boatloads of merch of them
thats it, gundam makes toys, so they keep making shows of them

pokemon is the largest brand in the world because it has toys, games, and movies
but the next 4 spots are winnie the pooh, star wars, disney princess, and mickey mouse

and all 4 of them, due to having disneys marketing and merch, absolutely destroy everything else
gundam is only about on par with scooby doo in terms of overall franchise size

>>154142280
I've been told Shaun the Sheep is very popular in Japan. Also Moomins if you want to count that as western and cartoon, enough to have entire stores dedicated to it and serve as an explicit stated influence for several Mangakas.

>>154142212
JP Wikipedia said it aired on Nickelodeon so I will just assume that's correct. Any Japanese kid at the time watching Nickelodeon over the many other channels at the time airing anime would do so to specifically to watch American cartoons.
The western animated shows that are well received in Japan are usually the ones with the cute mascot characters. Spongebob, Pingu, Jenny Wakeman etc.
Avatar is not a funny cartoon animal show so maybe it already lacked the cartoon appeal for a western animated show in the eyes of the Japanese audience. And for anime fans there were already many domestic anime to choose from so why watch this American imitation over those?

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>>154142280
>I'm haven't even begun comparing stuff from other anime genres like Shoujo (Sailor Moon), Seinen(Berserk) and Mecha (Super Robot like Mazinger Z and Real Robots like Gundam or Hybrids like Evangelion.)
The west barely has any mecha9whene even was the last 1?)and for seinen the adult western animation market is extremely different. For shoujo maybe the pony show? For shonen maybe adventure time? Anyways I really appreciate your approach to discussion Tophbro, it's way nicer than the other fags.

>>154142137
That's something very weird about this image

>>154142137
The most common complaint I heard was Aang was bald and why did they use a western elemental system.

>>154142739
>The most common complaint I heard
From where?

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>>154142137
the evil bad guys are imperial japan invading china...

Unlike germany which distanced itself form the third reich that they can watch indiana jones without getting butthurt japan just downplays or doesn't teach the atrocities of imperial japan, they just view it as war is war oh well, we didn't do anything that different from other nations who waged war.

Avatar also isn't popular in china because the hero is a tibetan monk who survived a genocide...

its a lose lose on all fronts for asian markets.

>>154142840
>>154142167
I think it's a bit of both of these I guess.

>>154142743
A Japanese MTG forum.

>>154142280
Johnny quest had a fan base of people that enjoyed it.
You'd be surprised how many westaboos there were in the industry of animation.

Atla was made by weebs

>>154142379
to be fair these days Japan also doesn't have much mecha, legacy series like Evangelion or Gundam are popular but you don't see many brand new series, there was Bravern but it was pretty short and idk if it was popular aside from among fujos

for shoujo I'd go with Mirculous Ladybug, tho My Little Pony and other girly franchises like Strawberry Shortcake aren't a bad comparison, also cartoons inspired by magical girls shows like Winx Club

Adventure Time reminds me more of "quirky" seinen comedies like CITY

>>154142145
Imagine if atla had actual fanservice(other than swimsuits), it would have been kino and would have gatekept the fanbase from all the redditors.

>>154143383
>to be fair these days Japan also doesn't have much mecha
I wasn't really thinking about these days but more about the genre in general, how many western mecha have we got since the 00s? They are extremely unpopular in the west and always get cancelled unfortunately.
> tho My Little Pony
I wouldn't say that name if I were you, even mentioning it can attract a certain spammer. I remember liking W.i.t.c.h. a lot when I was younger but I don't know how popular it really was.

>>154142137
A common sentiment I heard was that the characters looked ugly. On a Japanese YT vid I saw several comments about how Aang wouldn’t sell as a protag/he's ugly, the girls were ugly, or how Toph should’ve been the protag. Basically, it doesn’t look appealing.

Can she bend piss?

>>154143659
>Toph should’ve been the protag
Kino Toph appreciators

>>154143686
No

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>>154143383
>>154142379
Somehow, western cartoons these days felt like they have regressed inspite of the internet giving them the freedom to write more creative and mature stories.

After all, the perception of western cartoons is still in the realms of "Kids Stuff" and "Adult Shock Comedy" in the realms of South Park and Family Guy. The only interesting recent western cartoon I've watched is Primal.

Even when anime and manga had it's own problems such as certain genres like Mecha getting less prominence and the rise of generic Isekai stories, it's still going strong and noticably has better genre variations than the west.

>>154143477
>I remember liking W.i.t.c.h. a lot when I was younger but I don't know how popular it really was.
The comic was super popular, selling over 6 million copies in its first year of publication. Disney attempted to capitalize on its success by making an animated series, but made dumb decision like changing the artstyle and the story to try to appeal more to a male audience and a bunch of other dumb shit which is probably why the show wasn't as succesfull. Losing a lawsuit against Rainbow certainly didn't help. Winx ended up becoming the global success corporate Disney wanted for W.I.T.C.H., which was cancelled bceause investors were no longer interested

>>154143979
Making Caleb cooler wasn’t that bad of a choice and it still got a better deal than Monster Allergy

>>154143780
>The only interesting recent western cartoon I've watched is Primal.
Just because you don't watch much doesn't mean your analysis is correct. I had more fun watching Vox Machina, Mighty Nein, and Hazbin Hotel than any mainstream anime that came out recently, and then there's France, which has churned out gems like Lastman, something that could never exist in Japan.

>>154144127
>I had more fun watching Vox Machina, Mighty Nein, and Hazbin Hotel than any mainstream anime
Nta but why would you restrict it to mainstream? I've tried both Hazbin hotel and vox machina neither of them appealed to me. Especially hazbin was extremely poorly written, even mainstream shonenshit probably has it better.
>something that could never exist in Japan.
Why? What makes Lastman special?

>>154142379
Cute.

>>154142137
its not groundbreaking material for them like it was in the west.

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around the time ATLA probably got dubbed and shown in Japan, they were in the golden era of anime. Why watch some westerner show when you had Death Note airing. Hell, even the Pokemon anime at the time was more interesting (diamond and pearl).

>>154144450
Bartender was kino

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>>154144156
You're basically stating the problem. Not to mention the content you've mentioned aren't even that impressive.

Western cartoons only has a handful of shows worth noticing while Anime and Manga has a wealth of content from a wide scope of genres from both past and present

See pic >>154144450

>>154143477
>>154142379
There was gen:LOCK a few years ago.

>>154144156
>Nta but why would you restrict it to mainstream?
That's the thing most westerners are familiar with
>Why? What makes Lastman special?
For once I don't think anime in Japan can depict genitalia without censorship.

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>>154142280
>Which western cartoon could possibly compete against shounen anime in terms of popularity, large franchise and enduring cultural influence?
>The only worthy contenders are the DCAU cartoons like Batman:TAS and Justice League, Avatar: Last Airbender, Teen Titans 2003 and Ben 10.
The Clone Wars is more popular than any of those and it's also pretty big in Japan. Interestingly enough, it was also the first American action-adventure dramatic animated series rated TV-PG (V) instead of the usual Y7, which put it in the same category with Dragon Ball, Evangelion, and other Japanese animation that aired on Cartoon Network.

>>154144867
>That's the thing most westerners are familiar with
And? Even in that aspect the chainsaw man movie was mostly empty spectacle yet it was better than the horrendous writing that plagued Hazbin and this is a shit argument when you bring up lastman, a show that is not well known in the west.
>For once I don't think anime in Japan can depict genitalia without censorship.
Are you sure about that? Anime was less censored on that front than western cartoons especially in the 90s-00s. I'll name an easy example but Golden Boy or Dragon Ball.

>>154144553
>Western cartoons only has a handful of shows worth noticing while Anime and Manga has a wealth of content from a wide scope of genres from both past and present
Oban Star Racer has always been more French than Japanese and most of the stuff there isn't even that great. Quantity=/=Quality.
As for wide scop genre diversity that is utter bullshit, the industry has been dominated by the same 3 genres romance, fantasy, sci fi and sport which are often combined
The most popular shows in the last 6 years were all urban fantasy

>>154144922
>Even in that aspect the chainsaw man movie was mostly empty spectacle yet it was better than the horrendous writing that plagued Hazbin
Based on what exactly?
>this is a shit argument when you bring up lastman, a show that is not well known in the west.
I'm talking about mainstream anime, Critical role isn't mainstream either

>>154144939
>most of the stuff there isn't even that great.
Yet there is a lot for good to great stuff on that list, that was his point.
>same 3 genres romance, fantasy, sci fi and sport
And dram and thrillers, and sol, and comedies, and magical girls and almost every genre that you can also find in LA as well while cartoons made in american were limited to mostly comedy

>>154144956
>Based on what exactly?
Based on the fact that the writing wasn't actually a huge detriment to the spectacle. It was a basic bitch failed romance story with some basic metaphors meanwhile Hazibn genuinely gets worse because of the substandard dialogue and characterization, it would have been better if it relied on other aspects of itself.
>I'm talking about mainstream anime, Critical role isn't mainstream either
but that sounds like a cop out, you are comparing only 1% of all anime with 100% of all cartoons? The original anon you've responded to has never mentioned only mainstream anime so you are just strawmaning him.

>>154142137
>The last thread was pretty interesting so let's

NO!. It wasn't.

>>154144886
>The Clone Wars is more popular than any of those and it's also pretty big in Japan
Isn't Lucas lost a lot of fucking money on this show
>it was also the first American action-adventure dramatic animated series rated TV-PG (V) instead of the usual Y7, which put it in the same category with Dragon Ball, Evangelion, and other Japanese animation that aired on Cartoon Network.
The fact that something like Dragon Ball is considered PG in America already makes the US rating system a fucking joke

>>154134790
(1/2)
Let's see, I agree with some of what you've said, most important about popularity not being a good measure for quality but your emphasis on age is misguided when there are anime and cartoons from the 80s that have maintained their grip on the pop culture.

Regarding Simpsons, it's interesting because it does excel at one thing that most anime doesn't, which is comedy but in terms of its other storytelling achievements I wouldn't exactly agree with your claim, Simpsons has good episodic writing and the dynamics between the character are mostly fun, which are 2 aspects that you can also find in well liked anime. Gosenzo-sama Banbanzai plays with relationships and family roles in a more interesting and artistic way than Simpson does, Chibi Maruko-chan has a similar sitcom-ish format and while it doesn't execute comedy as well as Simpson it's episodic plots are always enjoyable and a treat to watch and finally Urusei yatsura for reasons that I don't even need to name. You mentioned one piece, which is weird, since I would consider it a rather average anime but it gives me an idea of what you like about Simpsons, which is probably the vast cast of characters in which case, even though it has become a boring response, I will echo the others and recommend Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu, a space opera that touches on a lot of our social problems and has a cast of characters unlike anything else you will see in animation, including Simpsons.

As for Avatar, it's really not that special if you have experience with enough anime. The best comparison would be Gundam, a series for children about war that doesn't pussy away from showing the consequences of that war unlike atla and has plenty of villains on par with the ones praised in Atla. While Gundam is a vast franchise the highs of it are
on a whole other level compared to the highs of Atla. And then there are of course other fantasy fighting anime, YYH(up to a point) and Erin were both good.

>>154145021
>>154134790
(2/2)
Ojamajo doremi is a toddler show and has comparable character writing, the first digimon has equally dark themes, most of the WM, first HxH, some sports anime like Ashita no Joe and Ping Pong, Hajime no Ippo etc etc. Atla is a small fish in a big pond, that doesn't take away from it's writing qualities but it makes it less special than it is in the west.

I've seen that you made a new thread so i will repost my responses to the simpsonbro

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>>154142196

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>>154145016
>Isn't Lucas lost a lot of fucking money on this show
People say this online for some reason, but there is no official evidence to support this claim. The show was expensive - around one to two million dollars per episode - but it was also very successful. It was one of the most watched shows in the history of Cartoon Network, with its premiere being the single most watched premiere they'd ever had at the time. Overall, it was also pretty big in Europe and in Japan, like I said. Plus it's Star Wars in the 2000s, so I'm pretty sure merch sales alone covered all the expenses.

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>>154144127

>>154144968
>Yet there is a lot for good to great stuff on that list, that was his point.
Like PPGZ? Most anime produced is forgettable, that's the truth.
>And dram and thrillers, and sol, and comedies, and magical girls and almost every genre that you can also find in LA as well while cartoons made in american were limited to mostly comedy
You're talking a lot of nonsense, superhero cartoons by their very nature encompass multiple genres, not to mention that even series that started as comedies like Adventure Time or Steven Universe have ended up becoming more action-oriented and dramatic.

>>154145100
Filtered

>>154145158
>Like PPGZ?
Like welcome to n.h.k.
>Most anime produced is forgettabl
Most of everything is forgettable, i don't get the point.
>You're talking a lot of nonsense, superhero cartoons by their very nature encompass multiple genres
That doesn't mean they excel at portraying the strength of that genre, I treat anime the same. Naruto is not a sci-fi heavy drama fantasy show just because it has elements of it.
>at started as comedies like Adventure Time or Steven Universe have ended up becoming more action-oriented and dramatic.
And neither of them got even close to atla, both of these shows actually got worse , bringing steven universe up a genuine embarrassment consider how big of a fuckup that cartoon really is.

>>154144998
>Based on the fact that the writing wasn't actually a huge detriment to the spectacle
That's the problem, anime nowadays are mostly about the spectacle, explosions and cubic debris are given more importance than having a good story
>The original anon you've responded to has never mentioned only mainstream anime
He didn't, I did because that's what most westerners are familiar with, most people never heard about Detective Conan or Lupin.

>>154144450
>Hell, even the Pokemon anime at the time was more interesting (diamond and pearl).
Let's not get carried away here

>>154145220
>>154145158
Just to explain how stupid your point is . You've claimed that "The most popular shows in the last 6 years were all urban fantasy", all of those shows have elements of sci-fi drama, slice of life etc. They encompass all of those genre so you are basically contradicting your own points.

>>154145241
>That's the problem, anime nowadays are mostly about the spectacle, explosions and cubic debris are given more importance than having a good story
There are anime with good stories/characterization as well like the Starlight movie(you laso have no room to speak when all of your examples have shitty writing) , my point was that the CSM was better than HH because it had acceptable writing.
>did because that's what most westerners are familiar with
Why does that matter when talking about something in general? Are people allowed to make claims only for most popular stuff? Fine then let's play the game, no one in the west knows lastman, name something western mainstream.

>>154144450
Black Blood Brothers was pure fun and Rec was also hilarious

>>154145100
why the fuck are americans obsessed with giving their characters those weird, protruding eyes?

>>154145220
>Most of everything is forgettable
If they were as great as you claim they are they wouldn't have been forgotten
>That doesn't mean they excel at portraying the strength of that genre
At this point you're just spouting off words.
>And neither of them got even close to atla,
AT is way more popular than Atla, no idea what you are saying
>bringing steven universe up a genuine embarrassment consider how big of a fuckup that cartoon really is.
I don't give a crap of SU quality I'm using it as an example of series that didn't stick with comedy as a genre. MHA and eventually the anime version of Chainsaw Man, JJK, Bleach aren't any better than SU with how they ended up

>>154145403
>If they were as great as you claim they are they wouldn't have been forgotten
I’ve said that some of them were great not that every single one of them was
>AT is way more popular than Atla, no idea what you are saying
I was talking about quality are you ok?Popularity=/quality
>I don't give a crap of SU quality I'm using it as an example of series that didn't stick with comedy as a genre.
And it has done if for the worst? switching to a serious story only made it shittier as for the “genre” argument read my post above.

>>154145302
>you laso have no room to speak when all of your examples have shitty writing)
Says who? I was speaking from my own subjective experience. You're the one using an objective tone, as if you were an authority on the matter.
>my point was that the CSM was better than HH because it had acceptable writing.
I'm glad if you liked the movie, I personally haven't even seen it but I read the whole manga, the anime was damn boring so I decided to drop it around episode 4 I wasn't interested in watching further.
I don't think even Hazbin or Vox are high art just saying that I rather watch those than Chainsaw or JJK.
>Why does that matter when talking about something in general?
The guy mentioned Primal as the only cartoon he enjoyed I hit back saying that mainstream anime aren't that great, I didn't even say all anime
Fine then let's play the game, no one in the west knows lastman, name something western mainstream.
I didn't know France wasn't part of the West.

>>154145559
>Says who? I was speaking from my own subjective experience
Says me from my subjective experience as well, I've tried all of them and the writing was substandard.
>I'm glad if you liked the movie, I personally haven't even seen it but I read the whole manga,
I haven't watched the anime either only the movie and read the 1st manga.
>Vox
Who?
>Hazbin
I've tried watching but it has no idea what it has to be, nice animation wasted on an awful script.
>The guy mentioned Primal as the only cartoon he enjoyed I hit back saying that mainstream anime aren't that great, I didn't even say all anime
That's cool and all but I hit you back with the fact that non-mainstream anime is better than your examples.
>I didn't know France wasn't part of the West.
Italy is part of the west and Lupin has always been extremely popular there. A lot of anime that are unknown in america are really popular in france.

>>154142137
>The last thread was pretty interesting so let's discuss it again
>The last thread was pretty interesting
>pretty interesting
>discuss
>it's just retards squabbling
thanks for the laugh

>>154142137
It's not popular because Japanese don't give a shit about western cartoons, why was this worth a shitty thread?

>>154145671
Eh, the rest of the board is probably even worse.

>>154145433
>I’ve said that some of them were great not that every single one of them was
So is quantity=/quality as I said before
>I was talking about quality are you ok?
So we went from genre diversity to talking about "quality"... ok
> switching to a serious story only made it shittier
Ok and? dosn't invalidate my claim that cartoon s aren't just commedies
>all of those shows have elements of sci-fi drama, slice of life etc. They encompass all of those genre so you are basically contradicting your own points.
1 Chainsaw man, JJK, DDD and DS are all urban fantasies Modulo and DDD have aliens but they have generally a very similar vibe
2 Slice of life isn't a genre it's a setting and isn't really present in the shows are mentioned which are the most popular righ now
3 Each type of story spans multiple genres: action is expected in fantasy and science fiction, and dramas can also contain comedic elements. You were the first to point out the supposed lack of gender diversity in cartoons.

>>154145694
There's actually a lot of popular western shows in Japan. They have the same kind of autistic online following that anime does in the west, who insist on watching everything in English (or French or whatever the original language is), but for mainstream TV it's all localized into Japanese. The Simpsons and Southpark are both pretty popular in Japan.

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This thread is gay and boring.
https://vocaroo.com/1c0WP7Dg1056

>>154145746
>So is quantity=/quality as I said before
I've never claimed that quantity=quality, I've claimed that there were a lot of good/great 00s anime and supported that anon's position that the nips had a lot of good stuff in the 00s to even care about atla.
>So we went from genre diversity to talking about "quality"... ok
When the genre switch made those cartoons worse, why shouldn't I point that out?
>that cartoon s aren't just commedies
Of course not but there are way more comedies in general.
>You were the first to point out the supposed lack of gender diversity in cartoons.
I weren't my first post was >>154144968, I am not the Tophbro.
>Chainsaw man, JJK, DDD and DS are all urban fantasies Modulo and DDD have aliens but they have generally a very similar vibe
just like capeshit has a similar vibe with multiple genres so do those.
>and isn't really present in the shows are mentioned which are the most popular righ now
man, I haven't even watched those and I've heard that jjk has whole slice of life movie.

>>154145778
>They have the same kind of autistic online following that anime does in the west
From my observation not really, the popular cartoons in Japan are Disney and mainstream stuff like that but in the most otaku groups only very few western cartoons can compete with all the other otaku stuff like video games, anime, eroge, gacha etc. South park is one of the more popular one though

>>154145835
nice voiceroo
I can't exactly put my finger on it but those moans remind me of these printer sounds, the intensity changes, the passion put into it, the constant repetition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CVkThNqcsY

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Toph is beautiful.

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>>154142137
Needed moar sexy women

>>154144450
>Pokemon anime at the time was more interesting (diamond and pearl).
Maybe if you have brain damage

>>154145620
>Says me from my subjective experience as well, I've tried all of them and the writing was substandard.
By expressing subjective opinions with an objective tone?
>Who?
You are on a cartoon board and you don't know what Vox Machina is?
>nice animation wasted on an awful script.
the type of claims framed as objective I was talking about
>That's cool and all but I hit you back with the fact that non-mainstream anime is better than your examples.
Cool, so what?
>Italy is part of the west and Lupin has always been extremely popular there
Maybe in the 80s and 90s
>A lot of anime that are unknown in america are really popular in france
Like what?

>>154145988
>By expressing subjective opinions with an objective tone?
Are you serious/ It's your fault if you can't read the tone.
>what Vox Machina is?
Not popular in the west so who cares.
>the type of claims framed as objective I was talking about
Are you seriously dumb? Do I need to add "imo" after every sentence? You've also said that "anime nowadays are mostly about the spectacle,", isn't that also an objective tone?
>Cool, so what?
So nothing, I am just supporting what the avatar guy has said. I am not really interested in mainstream anime or cartoon but when you take the whole medium into consideration I find myself gravitating more to what anime has to offer compared to cartoons, I still like some western ones.
>Maybe in the 80s and 90s
Even now you can find merch.
>Like what?
Shoujo and josei really, which never penetrated the western market.

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>>154145778
eternal classic

>>154145977
Source?

>>154146061
>Are you serious/ It's your fault if you can't read the tone.
Nope it's yours
>Not popular in the west so who cares.
It's popular in geek spaces just not mainstream
>Do I need to add "imo" after every sentence?
Yup
You've also said that "anime nowadays are mostly about the spectacle,", isn't that also an objective tone?
Yeah because it's true even One Piece as been infected by the sakuga crap
>So nothing
So what the fuck do you want anon? I wasn't talking to you and I didn't say anime are garbage.
>Even now you can find merch.
That doesn't mean it's popular, the last series was airiing close to midnight because most of the fans are Gen Xers. Goldrake has merch but if you think Gen Z is consuming it you aren't a serious person
>Shoujo and josei really, which never penetrated the western market.
Pretty Cure, Sailor Moon...

>>154145840
>anon's position that the nips had a lot of good stuff in the 00s
He was saying more than just that but whatever
>When the genre switch made those cartoons worse, why shouldn't I point that out?
Because that wasn't your original point
>Of course not but there are way more comedies in general.
Most of the shows in the 2000s were action cartoons
>just like capeshit has a similar vibe with multiple genres so do those.
Batman and Hulk have nothing in common
>I've heard that jjk has whole slice of life movie.
They lied to you because the appeal of JJK are the fights it barely has a story

>>154146529
>Nope it's yours
How?
>It's popular in geek spaces just not mainstream
Who cares, I thought we were talking about mainstream stuff, there are plenty of anime popular amongst the geek crowds.
>Yeah because it's true
Then hazbin hotel and everything else being shit is also objectively true.
>So what the fuck do you want anon?
I am saying that your logic is bizzare and a little retarded, the toph anon has said that anime in general has a wealth of content and you replied with "mainstream anime" but why the fuck would he care about mainstream anime when he is knowledgeable about non-mainstream stuff. You came up with a comparison that makes 0 sense. Can't you see that?
>. Goldrake has merch but if you think Gen Z is consuming it you aren't a serious person
They are probably consuming some merch, are you claiming that french zoomers are all consuming lastman?
>Pretty Cure, Sailor Moon..
Pre cure only had 2 series dubbed and then failed and SM is like the one exception. France has always had access to a lot of stuff that only got subbed later.

>>154146723
>He was saying more than just that but whatever
Not really, that's what he said.
>Because that wasn't your original point
No but discussion can evolve.
>Most of the shows in the 2000s were action cartoons
They were evenly split depending on the network then it got worse.
>Batman and Hulk have nothing in common
I am talking about genres why are you switching it to characters? they both have the same capeshit vibe of fighting evil.
>They lied
Who are they? JJk has an entire movie that is mostly slice of life and dram according to google and site reviews.

>>154145107
>with its premiere being the single most watched premiere they'd ever had at the time
1 million more than Alien Force but internationally Ben 10 was still the bigger show

>>154142137
Isn't the Fire Nation just Imperial China?

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It seems to share the same issues WHA has where the only ones interested are westaboos and poozed leftoids while everyone else takes a single look and goes "gross get that gay shit out of here"

>>154142137
Why do you guys care about what Japan thinks?
I thought you guys hated Japan and their shows compared to this.
So why make a thread for this?

>>154147161
>I thought you guys hated Japan and their shows compared to this.
Anon what are you talking about? Most Avatar fans have always also been anime fans.

>>154146755
>>154146755
>Then hazbin hotel and everything else being shit is also objectively true.
My claim about saguka is objective truth
>the toph anon has said that anime in general has a wealth of content
He didn't >>154143780
>They are probably consuming some merch
Doubt it
>are you claiming that french zoomers are all consuming lastman?
Lastman fans are young millenials and zoomers
Pre cure only had 2 series dubbed and then failed,
Most the Pretty Cure series have an Italian dub. And I rember watching romance anime as a kid

>>154147202
>Anon what are you talking about? Most Avatar fans have always also been anime fans.
There are literally constant anons here who like Avatar that say Avatar completely mogs anime and that anime is shit compared to it. They hate weebs too.
What are YOU talking about?

>>154147273
>My claim about saguka is objective truth
It isn't. My claim about Hazbin hotel is objectively truth because almost everyone is shitting on it. Also you've claimed other anime are bad as well in other posts so it's weird how you are ok with your objectivism.
>He didn't
Read the post again and his other post here >>154144553, he said that even with its problems anime has a lot to offer and he obviously wasn't talking about mainstream anime or else he wouldn't have mentioned the genre variation.
>Doubt it
Else it wouldn't get made, it's a household name.
>Lastman fans are young millenials and zoomers
Do you have actual proof for lastman being popular?
>Most the Pretty Cure series have an Italian dub.
My bad if I didn't explain but I was talking about the american market, the european one is a whole different deal, they got way anime earlier.

>>154147332
>There are literally constant anons here who like Avatar that say Avatar completely mogs anime and that anime is shit compared to it.
Were?
>What are YOU talking about?
Check the archvie if you don't believe me, plenty of atla fans have always been anime fans. A lof of old atla tripfags used /a/. The ones you are talking about are in the minority, like in the last retarded thread. There there was an atla fan that claimed naruto is on par or even better than atla, do you think all of them hold the same opinion?

>>154147356
Do you have actual proof for lastman being popular?
It had between 200k to 250k every night on France 4

>>154147567
Interesting, mind posting the source for that numbers?

>>154147620
>that
*those

>>154147398
Most of these posts here compare ATLA to anime.
>https://desuarchive.org/co/search/text/avatar%20is%20better/
Asking again, why do you guys give a shit about what Japan thinks when most of you anons constantly shit on anime? I hate weebs too, but logically speaking, why are you giving them attention?

>>154147356
>It isn't.
Name me one action anime currently airing that doesn't have overanimated scenes that ruin the choreography
>Read the post again and his other post here
I didnt say anything about mainstream anime in my reply >>154144939 to his reply.
>Else it wouldn't get made
Or most likely it has a loyal fanbase of 40s years old. The vast majority young people aren't watching an old 70s anime not sure why you are arguing this point
>>154147620
>Interesting, mind posting the source for that numbers?
https://www.superpouvoir.com/lastman-saison-2-le-producteur-de-la-serie-animee-didier-creste-nous-en-dit-plus-sur-la-suite/

>>154147656
Search the reverse as well, don't be disingenuous + you forgot tripfags.
>thinks when most of you anons constantly shit on anime?
That's not true, most normal people like both anime and cartoons. /a/ never has such a meltdown.

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>>154142280
Samurai Javk has/had a huge cult following which is why it got renewed. You are just counting shows who had a lot of waifu porn.

>>154142840
>they just view it as war is war oh well, we didn't do anything that different from other nations who waged war.
That seems like a healthier mindset. What beating yourself over this even adds?

>>154147857
>Name me one action anime currently airing that doesn't have overanimated scenes that ruin the choreography
Idk, witch hat atelier, the new precure show .
>I didnt say anything about mainstream anime in my reply
You did in the reply to his first post in which was also pretty clearly implying that he is not talking about mainstream anime. Here >>154143780
>The vast majority young people aren't watching an old 70s anime not sure why you are arguing this point
because merch is not about who is watching who. people buy merch of popular characters without having watched them. Also Lupin has new entries in every year why are you talking about the 70s one?
>https://www.superpouvoir.com/lastman-saison-2-le-producteur-de-la-serie-animee-didier-creste-nous-en-dit-plus-sur-la-suite/
Interesting, since you know so much about this, is there somewhere where I can check all the programs on that channel and how many views they get?

>>154147656
Lol are you in a bizzaro world? most anime threads on /co/ are animefags shitting on cartoons not the other way around

>>154142137

Avatar is highly satanic because it promotes the false religion of buddhism

>>154148039
Stfu
>>154147112
No, faggot

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>>154144939
>Quantity=/=Quality.
But quantity means more chance of quality.

>As for wide scop genre diversity that is utter bullshit, the industry has been dominated by the same 3 genres romance, fantasy, sci fi
Such massive broad strokes there buddy, but anyway, why you are tying yourself with just what is "massive and popular" while ignoring everything else?

>>154142137
Because Aang is bald, japs dont like baldies very much. Also Nickelodeon in general is not that popular there.

>>154147656
what other anons said but also I like japanese fanart of western shows. it just hits different.

>>154148032
that doesn't count

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>this weeb tranny vs avatar tranny thread again
It's literally /dbg/ but without funnies and people fighting for their fragile egos instead of doing for shit and giggles.
And in the end nothing in this thread will give any fruits because both posters are too gay and retarded to recognize the other's point of view and admit they may be wrong.
You guys are the definition of faggot.

>>154148600
>It's literally /dbg/ but without funnies
So normal /dbg/, but you are right, PeterGOD.

>>154142137
>The last thread was pretty interesting so let's discuss it again. Is Atla not popular in japan because they already have enough of their own stuff which means Avatar ends up not standing out? Is it not popular because the fire nation is depicted as villains?
it's because it's shit. compared to some of the worst anime it's megashit.
That was easy.

>>154148600
>/dbg/
Literally who?

>>154148629
You are shit, tranny

>>154147990
because it wasn't just another war, japan committed some of the worst atrocities ever by man. Not only just from a historical or moral perspective but just from a practical foreign relations perspective, having shrines to class A war criminals, downplaying the casualties, and saying that the people that were raped were just prostitutes is not going to get the rest of asia on your side.

you can call them cucks but germany emerged as the economic and political leader of europe form the ruin of WW2, they were not going to get their former victims to hop on board with them if they still had monuments dedicated geobles and himmler and down played their atrocities.

Japan had a post war boom like germany but was never able to solidify asia under them like germany because everyone still hated them after ww2 which left room for china who was lagging behind to catch up and be the defactor ruler of asia.

>>154148600
Are you illiterate bro? Nobody has been fighting about atla itt. I think both western cartoons and avatar are cool, I don't like Avatar as much as my favorite anime but I still respect its achievements, getting something like that greenlit must have been hard

>>154148625
/dbg/ at least spam memes sometimes like the betterman posting. At least they do it for the lulz.

>>154148600
ngl it was funny how yesterday all of your posts got deleted and it was obvious that you still stayed in the thread even after "you've gone to sleep"

>>154148016
>You did in the reply to his first post in which was also pretty clearly implying that he is not talking about mainstream anime.
In the first post he wasnt talking about anime being a "wealth of content" and the only western series he mentioned were mainstream ones
>because merch is not about who is watching who. people buy merch of popular characters without having watched them.
Lmao Goldrake isn't popular amon the French Gen Z
Also Lupin has new entries in every year why are you talking about the 70s one?
I'm talking about Goldrake
>Interesting, since you know so much about this, is there somewhere where I can check all the programs on that channel and how many views they get?
Enough with the cope, AoT had an average of 100,000 views on the same channel
France population is 5 times lower than the US Lastman viewership numbers were good

>>154148651
>You are shit, tranny
so you don't like the truth? too bad, it's worse than , allah forgive me, korean manwha.

>>154148723
>They're just pretending to be retarded
>T-they can stop at any time!

>>154148773
>In the first post he wasnt talking about anime being a "wealth of content" and the only western series he mentioned were mainstream ones
he mentioned particular anime series before that in that first post he was obviously not talking about mainstream ones, can you not read?
>Goldrake
I thought we were talking about Lupin. I don't know much about Goldrake. My posts have always been about Lupin
>00,000 views on the same channel
How do you know? Post it so I can check for myself.

>>154148785
Fuck off, and learn to use capital letters.

>>154148846
>Fuck off, and learn to use capital letters.
i Ain't gotta Do what wHat yoU TeLl me.

>>154148838
>>154148773
You probably got it from me quoting that Goldrake post but I've mentioned Lupin merch in one of my earlier posts.

>>154143979
W.I.T.C.H. is weird to me because it's honestly shocking that the west actually made something that was a serious attempt at mahou shoujo made by people who clearly liked and understood it that legitimately compared with actual Japanese magical girl series in its overall quality.

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>>154148808
>reading illiteracy

>>154148882
Cope

>>154148838
>he mentioned particular anime series before that in that first post he was obviously not talking about mainstream ones, can you not read?
And as I said before I don't care
>How do you know? Post it so I can check for myself.
I use something called the internet
https://toutelatele.ouest-france.fr/l-attaque-des-titans-quelles-audiences-pour-eren-jager-sur-france-4-74283

>>154148935
>>reading illiteracy

>>154148957
>And as I said before I don't care
I am just saying that your post bringing up mainstream anime like that is meaningless and retarded when following the logic of the discussion but whatever.
>I use something called the internet
I can't seem to find the other anime/cartoons ratings on that specific channel, it doesn't seem to have a lot of them anyways.

>>154134790
>But ooh, if you want to go that route pic related is objectively a better series than literally anything the Japanese have ever produced.
That's such a westernburger take. Simpsons is good but isn't trying to be anything more than episodic comedy with occasional attempts to be heartfelt (which Futurama pulled off better).

The funny thing is that I consider the strongest aspect of ATLA to be its comedy writing, with the next most appealing thing being the animation. The actual plot is really low on the list of things that are actually good at all, though that is still a novelty for American cartoons generally.

>>154149064
If your strategy was to win the debate by being annoying congrats you won
>I can't seem to find the other anime/cartoons ratings on that specific channel, it doesn't seem to have a lot of them anyways.
I don't care anymore its been hours

>>154149146
>f your strategy was to win the debate by being annoying congrats you won
Is this how you see discussions? As "winning debates"? That must be real sad. I Don't have a debate to win because you don't have a clear point to attack to defend, you just slither like a snake between different opinions until you run out of things to say. What were you fighting for? For the quality of atla? For the quality of western cartoons? The answer is for nothing, because you can't accept your slight mistake.
>I don't care anymore its been hours
Fine.

>>154147656
>Most of these posts here compare ATLA to anime.
Because your searched for that, there are plenty of posts that said the opposite as well

>>154149183
>you just slither like a snake between different opinions until you run out of things to say.
I didn't change my opnion
>What were you fighting for?
It's a fucking cartoon board
>because you can't accept your slight mistake.
What mistakes what hell ae you talking about
What a mistake, what the hell are you talking about?
You falsely claimed>>154146755 that my response to the anon post about anime having a wealth of content was "mainstream anime". I didn't say that in the second reply, in a fact I said that quantity isn't quality.
You keep harping on the fact that I said "mainstream anime" as if it were some kind of gotcha moment. Yeah I think CSM and JJK are ass so fucking what? the other anon made generalist statements about toons but could only mention mainstream stuff, I at least specified that I was talking about mainstream anime and compared them to shows that are mainstream like hazbin or at least popular in geek spaces like Vox and Lastman
You also kept insisting that I provide evidence for the claims regarding Lastman, you provided it but for some reason you can't accept it.

>>154149456
*I provided it

>>154145945
Probably because it all ties back into the sounds of machinery.

>>154148669
Bro, that's not politics work. To even suggest that China became the powerhouse of Asia solely because Japan didn't apologise like Germany (which is wrong, Germany was very similar to Japan until the 90's) is the most stupid thing I have heard. That's not how it went, it ignores geographical and political realities.
Asia was already split between the communists and the West while China's economic boom haplened due to Deng's reforms and the improving relations to the West.
Germany meanwhile doesn't have an wconomic rival on Europe multiple times its size. It's already the most populated industrialised nation, since 1900. Germany's dominance over Europe has nothing to do with a fucking apology.

>>154149456
You said that you were done.
>I didn't change my opnion
I didn't say that you've changed it but you've jumped from one to the other one.
>It's a fucking cartoon board
And? what are you fighting for? that guy told his opinion about western cartoons and you stawmaned him.
>I didn't say that in the second reply,
My post was about your reply to his post about "primal", I've only mention that 2nd post to show he was obviously never talking about masintream anime from the beginning.
>the other anon made generalist statements about toons but could only mention mainstream stuff,
He mentioned Primal which was less mainstream than hazbin hotel.
>talking about mainstream anime and compared them to shows that are mainstream like hazbin
Which is even worse than those shonen.
> at least popular in geek spaces like Vox and Lastman
Lol, "geek spaces" then why don't you compare them with anime that are popular in geek spaces?
>ou provided it but for some reason you can't accept it.
What are you talking about? I've accepted it but I was asking to see what else airs on France 4.