It's been 20 years since Millar fucked the Marvel Universe.
>GOD'S DEBRIS TRILOGY BY SCOTT ADAMS>>154734965>>154771885>JUDGE DREDD: I WAS A TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA PRIEST KILLER>>154749085>BROKEN GLASSES>>154757417>MARVILLE>>154762408
>PIRATE STC>>154764352>SUPERSAIYANCRASH WEBCOMICS>>War of Fate>>154771668>>Crash Bandicoot Retoldhttps://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/84293512>>Crash Bandicoot Retold 2https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/84294368>>Crash Bandicoot Retold x Super Smash Bros Z Fusion + Crash InJusticehttps://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/84296998>Legend of Crash: Advent Children + Legend of Crash X Crash Bandicoot Retold>>>/trash/84316950>YOUNG TERRORISTShttps://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/84295320>FIGHT CLUB 2>>154772688>JEPH LOEB'S WOLVERINE>>154774459
>>154787310What fucked mahvel more, Civil War or House of M?
>JAWBREAKERS>>154775260>M.O.M. MOTHER OF MADNESS>>154775638>HARLEY QUINN FARTACULAR: SILENT BUTT DEADLY>>154776477>U.S. WAR MACHINE 2.0>>154779016>WHAT DREAMS MAY COME>>154780012
>JLA: CREATED EQUAL>>154780014>IRON SIGHTS>>154781847>WARRIOR>>154783655>SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN: WHOM GODS DESTROY>>154785879>CALIGULA>>>/trash/84316147
>>154787310Include the god-awful Sidelines tie-in too so we can all laugh at that one stupid journalist
>hero versus heroI am already tired.
>>154787310Quesada Marvel was already hot garbage though.
>>154787422She-Hulk 100% fucked Larry King after that interview.And Jen you don't really consider yourself a superhero.
All of Civil War? Good luck.
I remember Blowshimselfupdude saying that the only reason why this story "works" is because everybody is out of character.
>>154787490He's not wrong
>>154787570The only salvageable image from this whole mess.
>>154787599I think the page of Punisher holding Spider-Man is pretty kino and the one where Mr Fantastic calls Spidey "Amazing" and he responds with "Spectacular" is a great one.
>>154787333House of M's fallout was limited to the X-books (and most of them kinda ignored that for a while)Civil War affected pretty much every book
>>154787615Can't go wrong with Frank.
>>154787310>Civil War>Storytime of PainExcuse me, are you retarded?Is Civil War controversial? Yes. Is it bad, SoP-tier? No.
>>154787668Shut up, Mark
>>154787668>Is it bad, SoP-tier? Absolutely.
Civil War was a huge entry point for normies to get into comics prior to the MCU.
>>154787693Things never really recovered for 'ol Spidey ever since this, eh?
>>154787722Double dubs of Damn, you ain't lyin'
>>154787668It deserves to be shat on for its anniversary.
Believe it or not Tony is an even more of an asshole in Slott's run, He sleeps with She-Hulk and implants nanobots in her and locks her off from her powers.
>>154787717And now the industry is dead. Womp womp.
>>154787310Go fuck yourself this is a great comic. You're going to shit your diaper in rage when Marvel retakes #1 spot in a couple of months.
>>154787901Mark, I already told you to shut up
>>154787938>black dude killed first
>>154787954I am shocked.Shocked!
>>154787976Death means nothing in Marvel.They joked about it ton no long before this.
>>154787992And yet Black Goliath is still dead
I heard a conspiracy theory that other writers tried to undermine Civil War on purpose by making the consequences so extreme and the pro-reg characters so evil. Like they all wanted to do some other crossover idea instead but got told this idea was happening by mandate of Quesada and/or Bendis.
>>154788016BWAAHAHAHA!They buried him in his giant form!?!
>>154788051>>154787808It checks out.
>>154788059It looks "cool"That's all this shit is
>>154788051Found it:>There was a Marvel creative retreat where everyone was pitching events to do as a follow-up to House of M, because that and Infinite Crisis sold big and brought "events" back into vogue after several years of neither company doing them.>The pitch that was at the top of the pile after a couple of days was JMS and Jeph Loeb pitching what became World War Hulk, but in a form that was way more focused on Hulk marshalling every alien race in the OHOTMU, so that I think all of the tie-ins would be heroes fighting different alien species. Mark Millar and Brian Michael Bendis thought this was a bad idea and started putting together a counter-pitch for what became Civil War, and obviously it 'won'. All of this (except naming names about who was pitching the Hulk event Civil War was pitched to replace) is laid out in the Civil War Script Book and various interviews/forewords published over the years.>Millar's original pitch references "Red Hulk" and brought the real Thor back in Civil War, and also had the third act of the series dovetail into "Planet Hulk/The Hulk War" but tweaked the "alien army" into an army of "five-foot versions of the Hulk called Hulk Babies who are just as powerful and dangerous, but the spawn of the Hulk after he's fucked a hundred thousand alien chicks" and all of the heroes reunite to fight off the Hulk Babies but then an evil senator in cahoots with Doctor Doom tries to depower all the heroes and this somehow proves registration is right. So again, not trying to suggest Millar had good ideas in theory or execution, but there was definitely pushback from editorial.(1/2)
>>154788082>The place where this becomes my own conspiracy theory is that various parties (most significantly JMS, but also notably Paul Jenkins) didn't like Millar's pitch, and sought to undermine it through their books. Millar's own Civil War book is deeply flawed, but the event as a whole becomes downright incoherent when you factor in the tie-ins featuring Reed's McCarthyism apologia (JMS), sideplots where Tony Stark was bribing congressmen, staging false flag operations, hiring off-the-books assassins, threatening to imprison/kill Aunt May (all JMS and/or Jenkins), etc. Depending on the tie-in, unregistered heroes were either treated humanely and encouraged to register or left starving and bleeding out on a dirt floor in a dimension that was driving them mad/empirically going to make them commit suicide. Even when the writers who were 'playing along' with the concept tried to show that the Negative Zone prison had Danger Room/Virtual Reality features to make the detainees more comfortable, JMS wrote in a bit about how the false reality was a living hell and the people in it were begging for death. JMS had a quote where he talked about based on the pitch, he felt that Reed, Tony, and all of the pro-registration characters were "the bad guys" and therefore he felt that he needed to write them as "the bad guys" even though he disagreed with that characterization, and that's very much what he did.(2/2)
>>154787310It's amazing to me how this gets worse over time, that even when it was first out there was a lot of shit piling on for how stupid it was but fast forward 20 years later and it's somehow achieved a level of cringe that you never think could happen.
>>154787938>>154788016Has Marvel or Millar ever apologized for how stupid and racially tone-deaf this was?
It's incredible Millar was ever highly regarded. Even ignoring the absolutely retarded premise and character assassination, this is written so poorly. Slott levels.
>>154788129This page has lived in my head rent-free since I first read it. Jack O'Lantern was always a character design I liked, and seeing his head blown up like that by Punisher was always the funniest thing.
>>154788141This is a good page.Got me in the feels a lil'.
>>154788141KINOOOOOO
>>154787410It was always so dumb that it was Nitro blowing up a school that was "the straw that broke the camel's back". Not Wrecker bringing down an apartment building full of residents, not Juggernaut doing half of 9/11 a decade early, not one of Hulk's many city-wrecking rampages, not Namor flooding the NYC, not Kang nuking Manhattan or Terrax lifting it into the armosphere, not Magneto EMPing the whole ass planet, not Doom with Silver Surfer's power going on a global scale rampage (or the real Surfer doing the same once), not Graviton levitating dozens of cities around the world, not Ultron genociding a whole country and turning them into robot zombies, not literal demon realm incursions... Fucking Nitro blowing up a school is what finally makes the population doubt and hate their superhumans.
Frank is carrying this book.
>>154788172She-Hulk levelled all of Bone Idaho and she got a slap on wrist and her Cousin took the blame.
>>154787668>Is it bad, SoP-tier?It's worse
>>154788172To take a devil's advocate approach real life has had comparable moments of stupid where no one cares until the right person at the right time is harmed that everyone cares. Look at Columbine school shooting. 1976, 1984,1988, and 1998 had comparable years of bloodshed many of witch were younger than 12 years of age, some even factor in explosives and fire. But it was one in 1999 that went viral because it was a sleepy town with relatively wealthy that never thought it would happen to them. That's all it took for the whole world to change.
>>154787938I liked Bill Foster in MTIO. The fact that he still has not come back after all this time nust makes me hate Civil War more.
>>154787354>>154787359for anyone that liked the New Warriors before this, what was this like? i can't imagine they were JUST irresponsible glory-fiending assholes like the story portrays em here
Why does cap look and act like a psychopath through this entire thing?
>>154788352Millar likes writing assholes, and also needs to show anti-reg as bad.
>>154788407Jen you "beat" the Champion of the Universe, why are you acting like a pussy here?
>>154787389lmao, reminds me of that infomercial where the car rolls over a bunch of kids.
>>154788330At this point that version of the team had only one limited series that iirc was 6 issues long and was just forming of this new team that was TV focused. They didn't have much of a personality yet. As for the versions before it they bascaily functioned like X-family team books which is why it always struggled to stand out.
Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give this book to the patron saint of all 13 year old boys?
>>154788250I see your point, but your examples are still similar-scale massacres. Nitro blowing up Stamford is, on the other hand, probably not even in top 100 superhuman related disasters that happened on the American soil by that point.
First thing Tony did as director of Shield was to sleep with all his female subordinates.
>>154788490So much for being above it all, doc
>>154788330>>154788477The OG New WArriors was just trying to make a new hip for kids Avengers that did OK but never took off because X-men just stuck better with the youth. The 2005 miniseries was a reattempt at the idea with a more 2000s edge that did over all worse because reality TV was already overdone and even contrite by 2005. It was likely why they were picked as the fall guys for this event.
>>154788468That meme was a commercial?
>>154788490I didn't keep up with Spider-Mann after this, did he go back to the non-symbiote black suit for a time, and did he get it back for a bit? I know Mac Gargan was Venom for a bit and acted as Spidey under Norman's Dark Avengers, but my timeline of things gets a bit fuzzy as to when that all went down in relation to Civil War.
>>154788526>immediately gets flattened by two alien invasions and loses his influence to the Green Goblin
>>154788172One man in 1976 stole seven girls and rapped them for decades, it got a TV movie that most don't even know aboutOne girl went missing in 1996 and the US spent 10 years on finding her A whole group of black school kids were executed by the police in 1995 and nothing came of itOne black guy was kneed by a cop and to die from it in 2020, lead to a summer of riots.
>>154788482Here for Carol
>>154787490That's basically what I've noticed even back then. Most of the people who liked it were getting into Marvel in that decade and had no idea what the characters were like or were one of those insufferable "fans" that insist old stuff doesn't matter (which made these Civil War fans getting mad about the MCU Civil War more hilarious). Those that actually went back and read old stuff ended up not liking Civil War
>>154788430>Jen you "beat" the Champion of the UniverseShe was significantly powered-up for that to happen. Normal She-Hulk not wanting to throw hands with Namor makes perfect sense
>>154787599it is a nice ass, i have to say
Has any of the Penance stuff ever been SoP'd?
>>154788660I love how that power-up wrote Slott in a corner because he made her too powerful and she had to get ManWolf's hammydowns.
>>154788330I knew a lot were pissed about it. They didn't like Zeb Wells' take on them to begin with and Millar doing this was worse
>>154787401800 to 900 deads? The USA was traumatised by 9/11, weren't they?
>>154787310> McNivenwhat’s with this guy and bad comics? Civil War, Nemesis, the retcon ending to Secret Empire.
>>154787604weirdly low-res panel on the bottom there. Or are my eyes just playing tricks on me?
>>154788670Yeah, Too bad it's more filthy than Club 54's bathroom.
>>154788708This is just Millar (a non-American writer, mind you) being MIllar
>>154788652It's hard to like it outside of a vacuum of just the story told. The idea would function better without the marvel brand and you were just entering a world that had to deal with these issues but this is a world that already had these issues several times over and resolved them many different ways and different forms taking on these issues like it was the first time and everyone was taking sides that never made sense to who they were. Iron Man would have sooner blown up the White House than agreed to become it's lap dog, Captain America swore he sooner stay inside the machine and force it to work as it should than abandon it after what happen with John F. Walker. Yet both of them act like the other would have in this series, followed with even stranger turns like cloning Thor and using villains in situations that make no sense.This whole thing only works if it's like an elseworld story where we don't have fully fleshed out pasts of these characters. As it stands we are just watching Hollywood like bastardizations just without the budget.
>>154788432>>154788434Little known fact, Hercules is quoting Thunderstrike's speech from Avengers Annual #23 here
>>154788699>I love how that power-up wrote Slott in a corner because he made her too powerfulI mean she lost it like 5 issues later in the same book so
>>154788820Cuz Titiana had the power gem.Doesn't matter that whole run fronted loaded her with a bunch of hallow accomplishments, while making her an unlikable assclown at the same time.
>>154788755>but this is a world that already had these issues several times over and resolved them many different ways and different forms taking on these issues like it was the first time God I'm now remembering how much a mess the X-men Civil War stuff was. >this isn't the Mutant Registration Act >but it is>just it'll be other Super Heroes enforcing it rather than Robots>Oh and we won't use those robots to enforce this our act because, uh, only mutants should be given the privilege of being detained by Sentinels?
>>154788016was he ever really alive in the first place?
>>154787469I forgot how much I hate those boots on Cap's suit
>>154788571After Aunt May was shot he went to the blacksuit on a vengeance run against the Kingpin that went right into OMD. The Venom alien never joined up with him at that time and stay with Mac. Honestly that was the strangest thing about this era was how long Gargan Venom lasted, well over 5 years, followed by Flash Venom for eight years.
>>154788767It's quoting this vice presidential debate from this 1988:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator,_you%27re_no_Jack_Kennedy
>>154787310>millarthis didn't fuck over the marvel universe.what fucks over the marvel universe is the fact mutants never get integrated, and writers aren't allowed to have earth 616 advance in technology. whatever bullshit formula that's kept on one planet is myopic. we could have an event where a rift to hell is opened and anyone like midnight sons who specializes in fighting demons or vampires or occult shit could take center stage. there's also plenty of outer space characters sitting around doing nothing.OP trying to talk shit about something that happened 20 years ago is weak as shit. marvel isn't shit right now because of civil war. marvel is shit right now because x-writers followed bendis's lead and the movies have given everyone avengers fatigue
>>154787478I don't care if you have some kind of smart tranq that magically prevents ODing, you pump that much liquid into someone you're gonna kill them from rapidly increasing their blood pressure.
>>154788082>an army of "five-foot versions of the Hulk called Hulk Babies who are just as powerful and dangerous, but the spawn of the Hulk after he's fucked a hundred thousand alien chicks"jesus Millar
>>154788970I feel like Civil War is the marker of the quality drop however. House of M as awful as it was at least seem to be something just in the Marvel Universe while Civil War was taking modern talking points in politics and pouring them into the cape books and it's something that it never recovered from that for the past 20 years these writers just lecture to the readers their political beliefs to the point that rather than just telling good stories about Sam Wilson as Cap stories they have to go out of their way to bitch and bemoan that the internet doesn't like the change.
>>154788489I agree with you for the most part but I have seen comparable in the real world but what this book needed to do was bake it in more so you believe it. It wasn't some school with all the world leaders kids or the video didn't show some crying kid(s) banging on the glass or running away as they get vaporized (think the agent orange photos) it was just a school getting blown up and the footage shows none of the horror that unfolded so to that I agree but the scale was never the issue as the world has changed over one well placed death in the right moment.
>>154788928Oh. Huh. I didn't know that.
>>154789073>modern talking points in politicsthey aren't even modern. it's just liberals making shit up and ignoring class consciousness which has been done literally for centuries. bendis and x-writers who pushed rightclops definitely ruined things with a fascist ethnostate, which is more of liberals ignoring class consciousness>sam wilsoni don't follow avengers enough to care about sam wilson but i would give more of a fuck if war machine and falcon were leading. but why do i even care about falcon when archangel would beat his ass handily? also when you have characters with badass wings, it stands to reason there should be more aerial fights. has there ever been a memorable aerial fight either in comics or movies?>house of M was awfuli agree. only thing we got out of that was beast in Endangered Species who really fucking tries and then it's memoryholed and no one gives a shit, or it's just an excuse to shit on scarlet witch
>>154789187>they aren't even modern. Anon the writers admitted they got the idea from the Patriot act which was still a hot topic well into the 2008 election
>>154789304The Dark Knight says hello.
>>154788531Maybe the only successful attempt at 2000s Marvel trying to be realistic.
I love the scot. I think he is a great and funny writer. That's it.
>>154787629>the X-books (and most of them kinda ignored that for a while)they blew up a school bus full of children not even a year after iirc
>>154787570HOLY FUCK THAT AAAAASSSSSS
>>154788767>>154788928lol of course the only bit of half-decent dialogue is completely unrelated to Millar
>>154789073>>154789304Stop replying to beastfag you retards
So now that the dust's been settled, who was in the wrong?
>>154788432Yamacha pose over here
>>154788453I expected a bit more collateral
So, was the event so momentous that qualifies the watcher popping twice?
>>154788446>Grab his leg tightly, the Paramedic!Civil War rewrite still holds up
>>154789906Miller's mother for not aborting him.
>>154789906Marvel, for clearly picking a side (Tony) and thinking readers will just roll with it. Seriously, you spent 40 years writing X-men comics, where registration is "le bad", and then suddenly you do this? How did Millar convinced them, that it will work?
>>154787737Hey, Shocker made the Sinister Six after all!
Thanx for the storyline. How long do they stay on 4chan before they get deleted after they 404 if you have the links?
>>154790049iirc they last 12 days before getting archived
>>154789013When did Old Man Logan come out?
>>154787505Best watcher moment is still him coming personally to tell Beast he sucks
>>154788526I think we can say that the bad guys won here.
>>154787410>fuck, where's my Logan-to-English dictionary?
>>154787808>>154788148Slott got inspired by this and decided to punish Jen even further.
>>154788049where the plot obviously goes full stupid. If the central pitch of Civil War was heroes on hero conflict, why bother involving villains?
>>154788160This makes it look like his head is just an actual pumpkin, i guess good way to do censorship
>>154788526least subtle Skrull
>>154789898suck a tailpipe, bendis
