Night and Day editionPrevious: >>155105724
>>155149170The guy cherri bomb took to the sex room is the same guy that dragged pentious there too.
>>155147786I said left him, not cheated on him with Lucifer. If Lute isn't Eve then Eve isn't with Adam right now ergo she left him. Hellaverse Adam and Eve immediately becomes several fathoms less romantic if Lute isn't Eve. If she is then yes, Adam and Eve all the way.
>>155149190Lute(Eve) might have also initially ended up in hell only to be snuggled into heaven by the Angel's top brass without anybody else knowing(Adam and Abel included).
>>155149207*smuggled Why the fuck did it autocorrect to snuggled?
>>155149190Oh then yeah I agree with you.
>>155149221Lute's desperate need for snuggles.
>>155149244Nta but you're 100% wrong. If Lute and Eve end up being different people and Lute's dynamic is already so much better with Adam then why tf would you ship flowertunes
>>155149248I guess. But I don't see it happening. Like no other Eve theory is that likely( twin theory and Rosie being Eve) and I don't think she's just gonna randomly pop out with no buildup.
>>155149264Honestly current Flowertunes is just pure fancanon at this point. Like if Lute is Eve then we have more of an idea how Adam and Eve's dynamic was but fandom Flowertunes is just nonexistent. It's kinda why GuitarSpear always wins ship stuff for Adam. We haven't seen a lick of Eve(unless of course she's Lute). We haven't seen Adam say a word to Lilith or vice versa. His interactions with Lucifer are so weak and shallow I'm genuinely questioning the guys and the Adamsapple fans that think these two were ever friends or actually meaningfully interacted. Funny enough outside of Lute the only other character he has meaningful interactions is Charlie.
>>155149189You mean the guy who raped pentious?
So is Cain a demon?
>>155149326We don't fucking know. Depends on which backstory Viv picks. I kinda assume she went with immortal wanderer because we haven't seen his ass in Hell but maybe he'll just randomly show up in S3 or S4 as a sinner without any buildup(just like his bro Abel).
>>155149381Basically Adam to Lute in Gravity
>>155149381That’s not your wife, Adam.
>>155149318Yep! Green dude with horns goggles and a blazer with no shirt. He shuts the door after he and Theodore in the bandage harness successfully get him in. I think he even says he loves alcohol.
>>155149264That was my bad chief, I misunderstood the initial comment
>>155149270No, I definitely don't think that's the case. They already confirmed in a patreon Q&A that in not introducing new biblical figures like St peter, they just want to focus on what's been set up and they specifically named Adam and eve. Meaning.. we've already seen her, we've got her. It's Lute.And I'm not just saying that just to be an asshole. Jessica literally said she's not who we think she is, then she's stupidly re-quoted the Lute / Eve theory . Liked. It's obvious.
>>155149354carrying adam as hard as she carries the show and she still makes it look effortless good job lute.
This show ruined my life. My girlfriend left me for Alastor, my family thinks I'm some evil Satanist, and I jerk it to Charlie porn non-stop. I fucking hate Vivziepop so much.
>>155149502Clearly in the wrong part of the fanbase. Make the right choice. Be a heavenfag.
>>155149381What even is that Eve design?
>>155149381"eve i said you have to kill this guy not that you have to wear his intestines like a feather boa."
The fact the Vees spinoff exists implies Valentino survives until the very end and that is going to piss off a lot of people.
>>155149652Honestly don't care that much about Valentino. Just dislike people that like him but somehow create a headcanon where Adam is a bitch slapping and raping machine just so they can hate him. Like he does bad shit in the show you don't need to gaslight yourself into thinking Sera and the angels were ok with him SA Lilith and Eve every 5 minutes.
>>155149518Word.
>>155149817The only confirmed rapist is Valentino. I doubt Adam was a rapist because he'd be in hell if that were the case and like you said the angels wouldn't be okay with it. Adam likely was a pretty decent guy during his life minus some fuck ups here and there.
>>155149817people are so weirdly resistant to the idea that adam might've had some redeeming qualities to him without thinking about if he doesn't, that means adam was created to be an abusive rapist from the start, intentionally, with no hope of changing because it's as intrinsic to his nature as breathing. and then they praise sir pentious being redeemed as if that's coming from a place of infallible judgement and not the same entity that, given sera MADE adam in this continuity (or is at least implied to have done it), allowed sera to look at adam and turn up the rape dial and there is no sign she'll ever face consequences for that, since the exterminations form the bulk of her regrets so far. fuck the obvious themes of the show, bad man bad.
>>155149860I think the issue stems from Adam and Lute (mostly for S1) having such reduced screentime because Viv needed the fans to get attached to the hotel crew. This allowed certain people to convince themselves that Adam (because he has very little screentime and not a shit ton of moments like Vox) is supposed the be the most evil irredeemable character in the show so they created their insane headcanons (where funny enough he acts like abusive black father stereotype). Thing is he's obviously supposed to be a bad guy ( same for Lute) but he's obviously meant to be an entertaining asshole on the same levels of Vox, Alastor, Valentino and Velvet. This obviously caused a lot of Adam fans to reach extreme levels of Adam glazing to justify liking him and to piss of the haters. Funny enough S3 might make the conflict between the extreme Adam glazers and extreme Adam haters even worse because it's will change the power dynamic by giving the glazers their first win. If Lilith is not perfection incarnate they get a win because Lilith bad Adam good. If Lute is Eve then that means Adam was a good husband to Eve because she still loved and cared about him for so much time. Funny enough I'm pretty sure we're gonna see some Lute/Eve glazers ( formally Adam glazers) who will say the exterminations are now justified because Eve was ok with killing sinners ( wasn't there a recent case with a woman who killed her children and people actually raised money for her defense/bail?)
>>155149980I wonder if people would unironically defend Lilith if she was a child murderer and rapist like in the myths.
>>155150006Probably. Many believe women can do no wrong.
quack
https://x.com/didiyaoyao/status/2091228278799339992?s=46
>>155150191Judging by the design, it seems more people are realizing Lute is Eve.
>>155150191Damn. Looking good.
>>155150165No duck fetish shit please. Let that stuff be Lucifer exclusive.
>>155150225My fetish radar is pretty tightly trained and I don't think it's fetish art but ok.
Post your Season 3 prediction/s:I personally think Sir Pentious is going to get with someone other than Cherri, my bet is on Niffty but Emily is the most likely.
>>155150286I think you're smoking crack.
>>155150286The only way I can see something close to Pentious/Emily is if it’s to cause a misunderstanding on Abel’s part, making him think the snake has “stolen his woman” and driving him closer into his mother’s arms.
>>155150318>Abel in S3 be like >"The devil shivers when fat white nice guy doesn't get the girl"
>>155150191This Eve design is outrageously good
>>155149860It's pushback to the Adam fans who shit on other characters to prop him up and got so attached to the idea that he's some damaged deep down sweetheart who's right about everything that they threw a bitch fit when season 2 shattered their delusional "he loves and protects ~his girls~" headcanon about him and the exorcists.
>>155150006Yes, and they'll call Vivziepop every name under the sun. Just look at Stella fans.
>>155150286This fandom is so bad at predicting this completely unsubtle show.
>>155150675Those guys are a minority. Especially compared to their opposition. Not denying they're retards but you can't really say a puddle of piss is somehow worse than a lake of piss(extreme Adam haters).
>>155150732
>>155150740
>>155150748
>>155150686I'm probably right though.
>>155150313So am I going to be called Nifftyschizo or something?
>>155150808Idk. Do you want to be?
>>155150840Yeah, sure why not?
>>155150892I mean it's not really that bad. With the exception of one guy most Schizos/namefags we have are pretty chill.
I wanna hug Abel and eat churros with him.
>>155151015Ok
>>155150733They're not a minority of Adam fans.
>>155150733Nobody cares about extreme Adam hate because he's barely a character. Nothing explicitly contradicts the things they say about him since he's an uncomplicated asshole who barely has screentime and what you do see is all bad.I don't agree with what a lot of extreme Adam haters say, like insisting he's a rapist or whatever, but it's not like they're speaking against some complex character. I'd be happy if it turned out they were and we got more to Adam next season but I'm not holding my breath.
>>155151040i'm not denying they exist but as annoying as they are this is an algorithm/fandom ecology issue on your part. i've got a pretty strictly curated feed of adam understanders and only ever see these people in fanfiction i have to choose to read, or dedicated shitposting spaces which should never be taken seriously. spend your time more in sinner adam enjoying fandom spaces, they're typically more down to engage with his flaws.
Bugcuck has lost it and is showing up in other threads loooooooool
>>155151226Huh. What did he do? Did he show up in trash again?
>>155149170I love how all of these threads revolve around the Eden gang instead of. like, the hotel characters or smthn
>>155151347I think it's because we seen less of the Eden gang and people are curious. S1 and S2 allowed you to get your fill of the hotel crew.
>>155151320
>>155151423Oh boy, he's graduating from thread schizo to board schizo
>>155151347Guitarspear boardGuitarspear general
>>155151073>what you do see is all badNo need to be selective when it's textual, not headcanon, that he cared for Lute and the writers want you to see it as his one good point.
>>155151015Abel is probably a great hugger. Tell him you're feeling sad and you need him to cheer you up and he'll be putty in your arms.
>>155151347They cute
>>155151747I miss when you would get really unhinged horny over in the old country
>>155151423>>155151468Pretty sure he was one of the prominent Jax Schizos on most TADC threads. He only stopped and started frequenting this place after the humiliation that was the Trans Jax finale.
>>155151793What kind of things did he used to say in /tadc/?
>>155151835Mostly just hyping up Jax and ignoring all the obvious tranny flags. After the leak he kept going that it was never going to happen (tranny Jax). Not surprisingly he fucked off after he humiliated himself.
>>155151793 I'm sad they made Jax trans. I thought Jax was cute and I liked funnybunny :(
>>155151872Mfw with my superior God-given tranny radar I know for a fact Leonardo DiCaprio is a ftm trans but Jax DEFINITELY can't be
In his own words Bug looks like 'Leonardo DiCaprio but more warrior like' by the way
>>155151993Isn't he bald and fat?
>>155152017No. Imagine prime Leo but less transgender and with a more warrior like vibe.
>>155151872I think he's probably bowing out early because he knows Eve/Lute is a thing. That way he doesn't go through the humiliation
>>155152191Honestly he could just change his theory and say "He figured out Lute is Eve" last minute but he won't do that because he's a massive Lute Larper.
>>155152228The closest thing he has said about that is that she's going to take over her role, she'll do it better than the original eve, she'll be a better Mom figure to Abel, and that the twist Jessica is referring to is that Adam will change her name to Eve? So it's like.. she effectively becomes Eve, but she's not the original. Something like that.
>>155152228I don't think you guys realize how much of a schizo he actually is. He has thousands of posts on the /x/ archives, easily searchable because of his namefagging, arguing with people about angels and demons and God and tranny conspiracies. Another /x/ schizo diagnosed him with malignant spirits. Anything he says about Hazbin Hotel is small fry in comparison.
>>155152253That's caused by him being a major Lute Larper because she's his waifu(or some shit like that). He also probably heavily identifies with Abel. Basically Lute being Eve fucks up most of his fantasies. Her being Eve means she actually dislikes Abel (killing his cope that she doesn't know him and is only assuming) but also that's she's probably right that Adam didn't like Abel. He seems to use Abel for his self insert fantasies and can't do that if Lute is his bio mom( common Holyblades incest problem). It also ruins his "cool" fantasy that Abel is some awesome revenge filled half angel (he's just a regular fat human that was seen as a disappointment by Adam and Lute/Eve). It's also why he malds so hard when somebody says that Cain probably killed Abel by accident or the situation was more complicated. He seems to have actual real life issues with his brother (apparently he trooned out) and feels offended whenever you imply Cain might be better than Abel (obviously projecting).
>>155152432yeah one of his giveaways is if someone brings up adam and abel having a more complex relationship than 'ugh the worst son', regardless of if that complexity is positive or negative in nature, he'll show up talking about adam 'imitating' abel somehow.
>>155152432>but also that's she's probably right that Adam didn't like AbelViv literally confirmed this in a panel.>That's caused by him being a major Lute Larper because she's his waifuI have never ever ever received this impression of him. I didn't think he gave a fuck about Lute like that.>Abel is some awesome revenge filled half angellol not sure why he imposes this on Abel and not Cain?>he'll show up talking about adam 'imitating' abel somehow.Yeah. He thinks that winners can choose their forms "like sinners" even though this has been debunked by Sam and Viv. It's already been confirmed that sinners don't choose their forms like that. Winners don't either. Their form is based on how they died/environment/etc
So I'm being a psychopath, and I'm parsing through everything I can that's been said about Lute (by her VA, Sam Haft, Viv, etc etc) and I just realized Jessica has *been* saying Lute is going to be a major antagonist since 2024. Multiple times. She also said, weirdly enough, twice that Lute "doesn't have eyes"???? Oh, and she teased Gravity since 2024 lmao This woman is not the best at keeping secrets.
>>155152686Watch Lute's 'true' form be an enormous cursed bird with 'eyes' akin to her exorcist helmet.
>>155152706Jessica probably means Eve/Lute's eyes will be gouged out.
>>155152686And yes, I'm putting it on a giant google doc.
>>155152633He tends to ignore interviews or actual creator confirmations when they oppose his theory. The moment that stuff happens in-show he can't really ignore them anymore so he throws a shit fit(see TADC). As for Lute I'm pretty sure he's horny for her judging from the shit he says about her.
>>155152746Did he throw a bitchfit when it was revealed Jax was trans in the show?
>>155152814Obviously. He actually kept going that the leaks about tranny Jax were fake up until the finale became wildly accessible. Only then did he stop after calling Gooseworx out for destroying/corrupting the youth or something like that.
>>155151073>because he's barely a character>they're speaking against some complex characterHe's straightforward as a character, but that doesn't mean he's not complex or lacks nuance. This is why I can't with either the Adam haters OR the Adam extremists. Y'all are wack.
>>155152741This will be seismic to the fandom when it drops
>>155152899He isn't complex and has no nuance. The singular suggestion of nuance was him smiling at Lute before he died. All else is pure headcanon. Neither Viv nor writers have suggested otherwise either.
>>155152917as seismic as the radioapple one?
>>155151073>we got more to Adam next seasonAlso big giveaway you're not paying attention. It's been said that not only are we getting Eden flashbacks, we're seeing more of the hallucination (which Viv confirmed is well within the real Adam's character) and it's heavily implied he's returning ON TOP of the potential spoiler (which I'm inclined to believe) that he's actually coming back.I wouldn't be surprised if Adam isn't even dead.
>>155152926You just contradicted yourself in the same post.
>>155152899>This is why I can't with either the Adam haters OR the Adam extremists. Do agree here. I do dislike these extremes. It will probably chill out around the end of the show but I'm certain S3 will be a complete shit show that will make both sides go crazy mode.
>>155152940More "to" Adam, not more "of" Adam. Him being on screen doesn't mean he'll get fleshed out in a meaningful way.
>>155152917Definitely. It's honestly hilarious how much sense it makes in retrospect.
>>155152917Nah, I don't think so? Lute is fun to dissect and she has a handful of (real/non-larper) fans but she's not popular like Lucifer or Alastor or Vox. Nobody really gives a fuck about her or what the VA says much about her either.
>>155152945Not really because it easily could be that that moment goes nowhere. Viv puts a lot of things on screen that people read into and it turned out to mean nothing.
>>155152926You keep telling yourself that.
>>155152985>Viv puts a lot of things on screen that people read into and it turned out to mean nothing.She fought for this particular scene to be put in. He was supposed to be just glazed over already dead when Lute got to him. "They only had each other for so long"
>>155152954Are you stupid?
>>155152986Look, we'll see, but the show has taken no opportunity to make Adam seem more nuanced so far even when it could have. Abel? Nah, Adam didn't even like him and Abel agrees when Lute says so. Lute's hallucination? As simple asshole as he ever was. Is his death a big deal? No, only to Lute.
>>155152958wym?
Funny enough I do remember a yt video critique of Hazbin S2 were said person complained that Lute didn't really do much and replacing her with Eve would make her heartbreak and sadness over Adam's death make a lot more sense and be more understandable (basically calling Lute a random goth girl). It would also make Abel being a massive scaredy cat be more logical if he was dealing with his Mom who acted like a psychopath ( like Lute). Really funny in retrospect. I wonder how said creator will react to the Lute is Eve reveal.
>>155150754I want to hug her.
>>155152969I'd say it will definitely have an impact because it affects so much stuff. From the shipping. To the glazers. To questionable theory fans. To the story obsessed guys. To the headcanon retards.
>>155153024You’re equating a character being an asshole in every appearance with that character being one-dimensional. Adam doesn’t need to become nicer or more sympathetic for the show to complicate his character; overwhelmingly negative characterization is still characterization, and it doesn’t preclude development or complexity. We’ve also been given considerable information outside the show indicating that Adam carries more narrative significance than what has been explored onscreen so far. Though I don’t really fault you there, because who is keeping up with every interview like that? That speaks to a failure in the show’s execution; supplementary material can add context, but you shouldn’t need to seek it out to understand information the narrative itself considers important. He's definitely not there just to look pretty.
>>155153028Lute is Eve tends to make a lot of sense when you actually analyse stuff and think about it. If you don't have "Chai leaks" brainrot you figure out a lot of stuff fits Lute when you consider she might be Eve. Like it's insane how people say they're fans of the lady or that they analyse the show but don't figure it out or at least have some eyebrows raised.
>>155153081There's other stuff I want to include (off the record material, so to speak) but honestly just the interviews alone make it veryyyy obvious Lute is going to be a big bad, if not a large obstacle.It's like .... yeah, she's definitely Eve. Don't even need the other stuff about how Eve isn't going to be a new character in the show or how Adam/Eve will be a thing.
>>155149170
>>155153136>"Chai leaks" brainrotThis mentality is such a fucking cancer. I hate how it's invaded even the people who didn't know about the leaks either, but they still come to conclusion of Rosie/Eve/Lilith because it's the most prevalent theory in the fandom.>a lot of stuff fits Lute when you consider she might be Eve.Way too much. One or two comments by the VA is fine. Several since she started working on the show, the underlying feminist themes (on her audition sheet, the show etc) the crew liking Guitarspear. It has a big fat neon sign.
>>155153146Bruh
>>155153056>replacing her with Eve would make her heartbreak and sadness over Adam's death make a lot more sense and be more understandableWhich is EXACTLY why her grief over Adam hurts. Because she IS Eve lol>I wonder how said creator will react to the Lute is Eve reveal.probably say he called it lol
>>155152939The one by the raz person? I could not understand what that doc was saying. I think Looty is just compiling the quotes, not giving her opinion on them.
>>155153113There are plenty of assholes in Hazbin who are on-screen multidimensional. Adam so far isn't really one of them. Adam's ghost haunts the narrative in how it impacts Lute and seemingly Abel moving forward, but other characters having complex feelings about him doesn't inherently make his character complex. Maybe you're right and it'd be nice if there was more to him, but I'll believe it when I see it and right now, nothing in the show's execution is showing it, as you point out.I'd like to see interviews that talk about Adam himself being narratively important and there being more to him. I saw the thing about his body from his VA. What else?
>>155153192
>>155153226>nothing in the show's execution is showing it, as you point out.Yes, this much I can agree with. It's insane the amount of lore you get to when you go through the patreon, the interviews, the bluesky posts etc. That's a failure on Viv's end though, which is unfortunate.
>>155153231We only talk about the angel characters here, retard.
>>155153220Yupppp>>155153238This is also why, as much as it annoys me, I can't actually fault supposed fans for thinking Lute is a nothingburger. Take away the outside canon stuff, and not much to work with. I thought she was Adam's daughter at first. Then I went down the rabbit hole. Not sure whether to blame Viv or A24/Amazon tho
>>155153180Because Rosie/Lilith/Eve fills in a lot of narrative gaps, massively streamlines the show's mysteries, and is in many ways the easiest answer. It's a strong theory.
>>155153194It was a she( bio woman christian lesbian or something like that). I think someone mentioned the theory Lute might be Eve in the comments but didn't drop any concrete evidence or anything convincing. Honestly I'm expecting her to bring attention to the fact that what she said about Lute in her S2 review making sense because she was actually Eve in disguise. I do think her conclusion would still be that they should have just had her be Eve from the start and not bothered with her hiding her identity (which depending on how wonky S3 might end up being I will have to agree).
>>155153136The reason Lute = Eve feels odd is because it's so disconnected from everything else. It does nothing for Charlie, who knows neither Lute nor Eve beyond bad guy and storybook character. It does nothing for Lucifer, who took no notice of Lute. Charlie is the main character and the Eve reveal should impact her in some meaningful way. Meanwhile, Lilith/Eve immediately connects her to that plot point.
>>155153333Charlie's earth shattering reveal is more likely to be Roo related. Lucifer not paying much attention to Lute only reinforces how bad he fucked her over without thinking about it. Nice digits though.
>>155153333I does impact her pretty heavily by having this woman be her opposition and one that is (kinda) justified. Eve did get screwed over by Charlie's parents once and had her husband technically killed by her sinner friends. It also probably messes up Charlie fantasy that Adam is the big bad boogie man if his wife not only accepts exterminations but actually is even more of a proponent for them.
>>155153359The reveal could be both simultaneously based on the other theory. And you can't really say that about Lucifer when apparently even Adam didn't recognize Eve according to Lute-Eve theory.
>>155153284My psycho ass theory after digging through old pilot-era commentary and trying to piece it together with the “newer” Chai leaks everyone vores is that, if anyone was switched, I think it was Roo/Evil and Lilith. Apparently Charlie wasn’t supposed to exist in the original concept, and whatever caused her birth had something to do with Evil. Then you have that interview where Viv couldn’t answer whether Charlie’s parents are actually her parents. Somewhere along the way, though, fandom condensed Roo/Evil into Eve, especially because of the old employee commentary from 2021 saying Eve and Lilith were twins. So now Evil, Roo & Eve basically get treated as interchangeable when discussing these theories, even though I’m increasingly convinced that distinction matters.>>155153333This is objectively incorrect. Lucifer also doesn’t acknowledge Sera despite standing in the same scene with her, and Katie doesn’t recognize Charlie or vice versa despite them apparently having met multiple times already. The show routinely ignores preexisting connections until they become narratively relevant in that specific moment, so Lucifer failing to react to Lute proves virtually nothing. More importantly, Lilith/Eve doesn’t inherently do anything more for Charlie either. Charlie doesn’t know Eve personally regardless of whose identity she turns out to have; the impact comes from what the reveal means for Charlie’s family history and everything she understands about Eden. Lute being Eve can accomplish that just as easily, especially when Lute is already an active character directly opposed to Charlie rather than someone whose relevance depends entirely upon being connected to Lilith. Not only that, but Jessica and Erika have alluded to a confrontation / connection with Charlie and Lute in 2024. This is also established since S1E1. There's a narrative reason Lute is targeting *Charlie* and not *just* Vaggie.
>>155153403>old employee commentary from 2021 saying Eve and Lilith were twins.I worded this poorly. I meant the employee (concept artist, not a writer) left in 2021.
>>155153359>>155153374also given charlie's fixation is on sinners and eve is sometimes referred to as committing the 'original sin' colloquially, i feel like that'd pique charlie's interest. she can't talk to adam because he's dead and a cunt, so let's talk to eve! she's surely going to be nice and understanding and would want to help her wayward descendents out, right?
>>155153359>Lucifer not paying much attention to Lute only reinforces how bad he fucked her over without thinking about it. Funny enough I don't think he ever gave a shit about her other than testing his theories for humanity by "gifting" her the apple. Would like a scene where Lute/Eve just shits and rips into the midget. Like just nails he's a selfish prideful piece of shit (obviously Viv will frame it as Lute/Eve being delusional and that Lucifer is a sad boy who only tried to do good).
>>155153398Well you have to consider that Adam, Lucifer and Abel are all fundamentally retarded and have one functional brain cell. Probably is why the show will reveal the only people in the know might have been Sera and Lilith (just women because Viv believes men dumb women smart).
>>155153403>There's a narrative reason Lute is targeting *Charlie* and not *just* Vaggie.I’ve always found it odd that people reduce Lute’s wrath almost entirely to Vaggie, because Vaggie is not the primary target of it. In “Gravity,” Lute is speaking directly to Charlie when she threatens to take away what matters most to her: Vaggie. She isn’t addressing Vaggie and threatening to take Charlie from her; Charlie is the person she wants to hurt, and Vaggie is the means through which she intends to do it. Lute has much bigger fish to fry, and she establishes her ideological conflict with Charlie herself as early as the first episode: “They had their chance, and earned damnation” / “Angels don’t make mistakes.” Charlie’s entire project challenges Lute’s understanding of damnation, Heaven, angelic authority, and the legitimacy of the Exterminations. Yet that gets routinely sidelined in favor of treating Lute as a one-note closeted lesbian whose hostility toward Vaggie is supposedly displaced attraction and whose entire narrative revolves around her and nothing else. Reducing her motivations to Vaggie ignores a conflict with Charlie that the show has been establishing from their first interaction.
>>155153433I genuinely don't think he ever even spoke to Eve before the apple. And knowing this character's comedy routine, he won't remember the name of the person he gave the apple to.>Your name is Eve? Are you sure it isn't Heather? You look like a Heather to me..
>>155153403It absolutely impacts Charlie because it means Eve is the woman who raised her and who she considers her mom. "The person I thought my mom was, she actually wasn't. It was Eve who took her place and separated me from my real family. This is horrible but she's still the only mom I know and the person who raised me, and my parents fucked her over immensely. I both love and understand her, but I don't know who I am anymore or if I matter to her at all" is just a much stronger story for Charlie than "the person targeting me and my girlfriend is the person my parents fucked over so I should try to help and understand her but have a hard time having sympathy."
>>155153503It doesn't. If Eve gave birth to Charlie and raised her, then she didn’t “steal” Charlie from her real family; she IS Charlie’s biological mother. The identity crisis angle also doesn’t automatically follow unless the revelation fundamentally changes what Charlie believed about her mother and the values she was raised with. Eve would have the same 'values' as Lilith anyway.Lute Eve gives Charlie more to grapple with. Charlie has spent her entire life believing Lucifer & Lilith’s version of Eden: they gave Eve the Fruit, liberated humanity through free will, and were punished for doing something ultimately good. She has never heard Eve’s side of that story. Then Eve is suddenly standing in front of her as Lute, furious, violent, devoted to the Heaven Charlie opposes and screaming that angels don’t make mistakes. Why? Why does the woman Charlie was taught they freed apparently regard that freedom as something catastrophic? Why does she hate Lucifer and Lilith for what Charlie understands as an act of liberation? Why has she become the person actively trying to destroy everything Charlie believes in? That forces Charlie to confront the possibility that the foundational story her parents gave her is incomplete, self-serving or outright wrong, directly from the woman whose perspective has been absent from it.That’s far more interesting than Eve secretly having been Charlie’s mother all along, because Lute doesn’t merely give Charlie another family secret to process; she challenges Charlie’s inherited understanding of the Fall itself.Helluva Boss also made fun of the convoluted twin nonsense. It's not a thing.
>>155153503So basically "convoluted YA novel bullshit that makes zero sense and only exists for shock value" Vs actual actual compelling reason for Charlie to reconsider her worldview and be challenged by an opponent who opposes her ideologically
>>155153569Couldn't have said it better.
>>155153569Eve didn't necessarily give birth to Charlie in this scenario, but made it possible for Charlie to be created after Lilith made a deal with her....it inherently changes everything because it means her "mom" was out for revenge and used her to hurt Lucifer and Lilith. And according to the theory, she also agreed to the exterminations to get into Heaven. Massive departure in every way from everything Charlie knew.There is zero way Lute as Eve gives Charlie more to grapple with than a direct connection with her family and her childhood and personal identity does, be real. And all you're saying about her learning the real Eden story still applies, but this time she's learning it about the person she considers her mom and not just some woman who maimed her girlfriend.
>>155153580Especially when Charlie’s entire premise is that she’s breaking her back trying to live up to this idealized version of her mother, her beliefs, her compassion, her supposedly revolutionary ideas — only to discover that the foundation of it may have been bullshit. Lucifer and Lilith didn’t “save” anyone by giving Eve the Fruit. They probably acted out of pride, convinced they knew better than Lucifer’s older brothers, Sera, and the rest of Heaven, and used Eve to prove it. Then everything went catastrophically wrong, humanity inherited the consequences, Eve herself bore the blame, & everyone else was left cleaning up a mess Lucifer and Lilith made.She’s developed this entire internal complex around living up to Lilith, taking her mother’s dream and making it her own until it becomes the foundation of why she believes in redemption at all, only to realize that the story supporting those beliefs was fundamentally incomplete and way off. The woman Charlie has spent her life trying to emulate has built that legacy upon pride, selfishness and a decision whose consequences were ultimately forced upon everyone else. Suddenly Charlie has to question how much of herself she constructed around an idealized version of Lilith that may never have existed in the first place.
>>155153580This still applies for Lilith/Eve but even stronger though.
>>155153657Okay, I’m not entertaining theories that require Eve herself to somehow be more powerful than Lilith and capable of engineering a deal that makes Charlie’s existence possible in the first place. At that point, you’re describing Evil/Roo, not Eve. Those are separate characters, and collapsing them into one person is doing virtually all the heavy lifting here. If the theory only works because Eve is being assigned Roo/Evil’s power, motives and narrative function, then that is evidence of a Roo/Evil = Lilith switch.
>>155153660How does Lute Eve do this stronger than Lilith/Eve swap, though?
>>155153691I literally explained it. Read.
>>155153480Why is Lute not vengeful towards Niffty and Lucifer too? I found that so fucking weird. If my theory that Niffty becomes Pentious' girlfriend is true it makes sense there'd be a storyline where she tries to do something to him to hurt her. Maybe that's why Eve is going to be a major antagonist? She's going to try getting revenge on Charlie, Vaggie, Lucifer and Niffty. But that doesn't seem to be the case because for some reason she never mentions Niffty and Lucifer.
Guys, it’s TransLute. They’re ignoring canon and what’s been established about Charlie’s complicated relationship with (the real) Lilith. We haven’t even been given Eve’s actual appearance yet, and they’re inevitably going to point to Charlie's flashback and trading card as definitive proof that we have. Stop wasting your time typing.
>>155153716>Why is Lute not vengeful towards Niffty and Lucifer too? I found that so fucking weird.She IS vengeful toward Lucifer: she has a gripe with him that is also established as early as S1. She also 'blames' Sir Pentious for Adam's death - she's blaming everyone. Viv liked a post on bsky that outlines that as well: in her grief, she's blaming ALL OF HELL.>Niffty becomes Pentious' girlfriendThat's not going to be a thing. We're discussing canon, not wishful headcanons.
>>155153689Eve and Roo can be separate characters and still be connected. There's a big apple-shaped reason as to how that could be.
>>155153716She does mention Lucifer.
>>155153750I didn't say they weren't connected. I said they're not the same character.
>>155153717Yeah I recently figured out. He's probably back but trying to be subtle.
>>155153701This doesn't say why Lute has to be Eve for some degree of this to be possible. Most of what you said is just about the Eden story being watered down.
>>155153717Argh. I always do this. can't tell for shit. Oh well, back into transcribing hell I go. I'll report if I find anything else. weeee
>>155153763Which I also never said but you assumed I said for some reason.
>>155153777Read.
Anyways how how hard do you guys think Cain is gonna mogg Abel? Like I'm pretty sure he's gonna be a tall Twink/Twunk( please put some muscles on men Viv ). We'll probably see why Abel was probably less liked by his parents when compared to Cain.
adam's big fat juicy milkers aren't coming to help us
>>155153770He tries to come back as all calm and someone who appears you can converse with but then he makes those oh so familiar points. Dead giveaway. Can't even pretend for shit.
>>155153814They'll be there when we need them most
>>155153814We have his ball. We can rebuild him.
>>155153811PLEASE. I want him to be like Norman Reedus Striker (personality wise) - have him be voiced by Gerard Way
>>155153735I still find it weird Niffty isn't mentioned in Gravity when she's the one that killed Adam and not Charlie.
>>155153832god adam's so fucking cute>>155153833https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApFhqPhv0h0
>>155153862That actually shows that Lute/Eve’s unraveling isn’t solely about Adam’s death. Lute fixates on Charlie and everything Charlie represents. Charlie is the person championing redemption, challenging divine judgment, insisting Heaven can be wrong & attempting to undo the entire system Lute has built her identity around enforcing. That’s the problem for her. Adam’s death intensifies her instability. Reducing her entire motivation to JUST “Adam died and now she wants revenge” misses what the narrative is doing with her. That's the part the larpers don't get.
>>155153895Adding to this: remember the court episode? Lute isn’t arguing that Adam died, therefore they need revenge. She argues that Hell killed Adam, therefore the threat Heaven already faces has escalated and they need to crush the inevitable uprising before it reaches them. Her entire argument to Sera and the Speaker centers on redemption being impossible and Heaven needing protection; she even looks visibly panicked when Sera acknowledges the possibility of redemption. But again, people miss this because the only thing they remember is Lute crying over Adam. His death matters enormously to her, but it’s the final straw in a conflict she was already having long before he died. It gives that existing fear, anger and ideological opposition a personal loss to attach itself to.
>>155153924also the first thing she says to hallucination adam once he confirms he's not the real adam is 'nobody is listening to me!'.
>>155153895I still don't get why in the song she says she will kill Vaggie to hurt Charlie like she was but doesn't talk about planning to do this to Niffty the person who actually killed Adam.
>>155153973Are you fucking stupid.
>>155153973Because Lute’s arc isn’t about Adam’s death; it’s about the collapse of the order she believes in. His death is what finally pushes her over the edge. Revenge for his death remains secondary to the crusade she was already pursuing.
>>155154006Adding on to that Adam's death might have been cutting the breaks for the car. He probably would have been the only person around capable of calming Lute/Eve down. Charlie accidentally put herself into a direct course with a speeding car.
>>155154124Adding: "I've still got a job to do, my mission is incomplete."
>>155154124Exactly.
Do you guys think that Lute will gather the exorcists and victims to overthrow Heaven's government and at least try to start a war with Hell?
>>155154464I don't think the Exorcists are on her side. They are rid of one abuser: why would they side with the other abuser who now has no real power over them like before? Fuck Lute. The Exorcists should overtake her.
>>155154524She's apparently going to be a major antagonist (probably in Season 4) so I assumed she'd gather a following to overthrew Heaven's government and at least try to start a war with Hell. The exorcists might be off the table but I could still see some winners being against redemption because they don't want to meet the person who committed a crime against them or winners who see demons as a threat.
>>155154658Yes I know. Jessica confirmed that she makes it all the way until season 5. Viv has also been hyping her up, very subtly though. I assume season 4 will be her season. Since that's the gold colored season. I thought it was fairly certain that season 2 was establishing. She doesn't have anybody support, including the Exorcists. You may be onto something with the winners though. That would be super interesting. She could cause a mass hysteria
why have i seen more than one person sincerely argue that lute should die in s3 at vaggi or charlie's hands like that'd be a satisfying conclusion to her arc, or a meaningful addition to theirs, or euthanised by heaven to end her suffering? i hate this stupid fandom.
>>155156001The fandom is dumb. Nothing new at this point. Honestly I'm just waiting for them to shit their pants when things go completely different from their retarded expectations.
>>155156001Oh look, another moron who thinks Lute's entire arc is all about 'M-muh Vaggie'.
>>155154464Probably. She may get a bunch of other angels and Winners on her side, too. The ones frowning at Emily at the end of season 2 as she passed by were indicators that Heaven isn't over what Vox almost did. Next season will probably see the start of a schism in Heaven: Winners/angels afraid of and angry at Hell who don't want redeemed Sinners coming in vs Winners/angels who want more Sinners to be redeemed and will be horrified learning about the exterminations (which I think they will), some of whom because they have loved ones in Hell. Molly will probably rep the latter group since we know Angel's family gets focus. Lute could easily shove her way into violent power through this chaos.
>>155156001>euthanised by heavenWhat the FUCK
>>155156001>>155156062I'll be completely honest. I legit don't have my glasses on. I did not read your comment correctly. I bow my head in shame.
>>155156085Yeah it's a surprisingly common take for some reason.
>>155156116Anons must have a fulfilling and comfortable night's sleep and wear appropriate eyewear before yelping at other anons.
>>155156062yeah but like it's wasn't even 'm-muh vaggi' it was like some weird fantasy about either charlie 'snapping' and murdering lute and then her arc would've been realising she had no reason to feel bad about it at all (painfully out of character), or vaggi getting her fully justified and deserved revenge and walking away like the cycle of revenge being a thing you shouldn't do actually hasn't featured heavily in both lute and adam's songs. like these people do not watch the show or at least skip the songs (criminal). >>155156085well see she's suffering and will never change but they can't send her to hell because that'd be dangerous and unfair to make her hell's problem sooo>>155156116no worries i interpreted it as a slight against the people i'm talking about anyway, as seen above.
>>155156139Don't call me out on the lack of sleep, man. I'm TRYING.
I don't disagree that Lute deserves death (shocker) AND that she's also a victim. Having that said, her being killed off by Vaggi/Charlie/Heaven is unsatisfying because that's not the point of her arc. I don't necessarily blame the fandom though: this is a series with 8 eps per season, Lute got only a few minutes of significant screentime, at best. It's not hard to see why people think Lute's arc is having a hate boner for ONLY Vaggie/being Adam's right hand.
>>155156147>well see she's suffering and will never change but they can't send her to hell because that'd be dangerous and unfair to make her hell's problem soooYou know there's something fundamentally funny about the so called "progressive" fandom entertaining the idea of euthanasing an obviously disturbed woman. Even funnier when you consider she's probably Eve and that she had to deal with guilt and baggage from the apple while trying to survive on primordial earth. Like women bad amiright lads?
>>155156163If Emily were real she'd tell you not to stay up late on 4chan.
>>155156230If Emily was real Abel would clog all our toilets.
>>155156239What the fuck did you mean by this
>>155153433Ya see, I don’t think it would hurt Lucifer coming from Lute, because… well, it’s Lute. Lucifer needs the Herb Kazazz special served ice cold but I think it’s gotta come from someone whose words would land and hurt him:> Sera> Charlie> LilithLilith is my top choice next to Sera. I’m hoping for Lilith to be someone who understands they’ve done more harm than good and regrets a lot of it. Lucifer’s pride, his inability to answer for what he’s done to mankind was probably a major push factor that broke their marriage up.>>155153502Hmm, I don’t know, given how Viv has described Lucifer’s role this season, I doubt they’re gonna play much of this part of his story for laughs.
>>155156249Idk man I'm kinda sleepy
>>155156275Okay I think it's time for all of us to be going to bed
>>155156275>>155156296yes find your nearest adam and make use of his beanbag chair physique.
>>155156337I once had a bean bag but I had to throw it away after my cat pissed on it.
>>155156337Was napping on my husband's tummy earlier but now he's too busy making 'important posts' (I doubt) in another general
>>155156147>well see she's suffering and will never change but they can't send her to hell because that'd be dangerous and unfair to make her hell's problem soooThey were hesitant on fighting even after Vox threatened to invade Heaven. No one in Heaven would be willing to physically punish Lute. She and Adam were the only angels who ever okay with getting their hands dirty.
