"Lute may always come in SECOND best in Heaven's army" — so are they not even trying or ...

>>155199139
They don't need to try because the fanbase refuses to put 2 and 2 together.

>>155198901
the fact that they have to explicitly call her hallucinations horny like she didn't straddle him and crawl up his body already in order for people to get the message that lute is attracted to adam and people are UPSET about that is an indictment against this fandom. like putting aside how everyone loves a toxic relationship in this fandom so long as it's not straight, the idea that maladaptive sexual attraction can't be part of mental illness and anyone whose sexual expression is involved in their mental health crisis is being mentally ill wrong is far more dangerous than whining about this being misogynistic and fetishising.

>>155199316
As far as I'm concerned if a ship isn't pedo or incest and they're not like beating and raping each other it's not problematic end of story. I hate modern fandom so much nothing means anything any more.

I 100% believe Lilith/Eve twin plot was real, as an early concept, but during redevelopment, Eve was reworked into Lute: Eve is supposed to be manipulative, and Jessica explicitly describes Lute as someone who “tries to play everyone, and be manipulative, especially with THAT dynamic” (Eve, in the leaks, apparently raised Charlie and manipulates her ideals/goals). Eve was positioned around the larger Heaven/Hell conflict, wanting to destroy both - Jessica and Viv have said Lute will play an important role in exactly that conflict. Eve would have reason to target the Morningstars, while Lute is established to despises Charlie and Lucifer as early as season one (and ofc hates Lilith.) Even the feminist material seemingly associated with Eve now appears around Lute - her bizarrely out-of-character feminist audition song and Viv/Skye saying she's the embodiment of feminine rage.

tldr: Lute is the redesigned Eve created when that story itself was reworked for the series proper. It's the same shit with Adam's character being changed.

>>155199490
>I 100% believe Lilith/Eve twin plot was real, as an early concept, but during redevelopment, Eve was reworked into Lute

Makes sense. I'm more leaning towards Lilith/Eve twin theory as being one of the concepts proposed to getting to what Viv and her crew actually wanted. A revenge filled Eve as a villain. However unlike most most fans of said theory Viv and her crew realised they were overcomplicating themselves so they picked the less convoluted option. Not only is Lute/Eve more straightforward but it also shifts her to a Heaven environment instead of having her be a primary Hell figure ( much better for evening the shows dynamics). It also helps her stand out better compared to Lilith. Depending on when they came up with Adam's character it's also gives her another reason to be angry if he died because of the Morningstars.

>>155199567
Yeah, that’s what makes me think this was a redesign rather than the abandonment of Eve’s storyline. The old “leaks” give Eve a particular motivation, conflict and narrative function. These ideas keep resurfacing through Lute, over and over again. Seriously... "second best in Heaven", while Eve is the second bride of Adam? "Lute is not who you think she is." Aight. This is why they poked fun at themselves with the 'convoluted twin plot' in Helluva Boss. Because they're not doing that anymore.

>>155199611
>>155199567
>>155199490
It also helps that A) Viv and Sam debunked identity switch theories, B) The show goes out of its way to tell us, via Lucifer, that Lilith has *always* been 'good at pushing people away' aka it's the real Lilith. UNLESS they're going to go all the way in lobotomizing him to where he didn't recognize someone impersonating his wife (and recently, at that)

>>155199611
I wouldn't even call it a redesign. It's more like she picked gold instead of pink for her dress colour.

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>>155198901
Medrano is bisexual,[47] and on the asexual spectrum.[48]
she stated that she has ADHD.[52]
Medrano had described herself as a "proud 'fiery' [L]atina,". she described herself as a "queer woman on the internet who made something popular


only the most degenerate broken mental midgets who produce inverted demonic propaganda will be promoted and supported

>>155199655
Bruh what?

Can retard fundies go preach in threads that actually discuss the demons please.

>>155199670
It's kinda funny how they show up here expecting demon worship, LGBTQ shit or Viv glaze only to have us mostly talk about Heaven characters and that Lute might be Eve.

>>155199700
The main topic is and has been heterosexual relations between two angels for months now. You'd think they'd get a clue. Not only is their preaching stupid, it's irrelevant.

>>155199727
I'm pretty sure they just see a Hazbin thread and just say their spiel without checking what is actually discussed there.

>>155199802
The guy who called it a 'tranny show' last thread too like... what trannies? Do people realize there are exactly 0 trans or nonbinary characters in Hazbin Hotel? I feel like people don't know that.

Viv believes trans characters have to be voiced by trans voice actors else it's 'transwashing' or some stupid bullshit so there won't even be any surprise trans reveals in the future (cough cough Jax).

>>155199829
Baxter, if we really want to grasp at straws

>>155199879
Voiced by a cisgender man

I want to put pp in Charlie's butt

>>155199915
If Adam was a Bluey character he'd be the knockoff version of Bandit that Bad Dragon uses to market dildos

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Why is Vaggie making such a slutty expression here?

Would YOU own an exorcist angel?

https://files.catbox.moe/wkkj93.jpg

(You) are now aware that a sex toy company commissioned Guitarspear porn to sell an electric fleshlight thing.

>>155200004
Imagine if Viv starts selling Hellaverse-themed sex stuff like condoms, fleshlights etc....

>>155200004
This thing is obviously a men's sex toy so it's kind of adorable their marketing team think men want to cum like Adam Hazbin Hotel... Men, is this true?

>>155200037
We have a Pizza chain here in NZ that had an advertising campaign where they put branded condoms in people's letterboxes, so I don't see why not.

The company's name btw
>Hell Pizza

>>155200148
Kiwis??? In my thread?

>>155200004
Impressive. Also weirdly fitting when you remember there's a sex toy website called Adam and Eve.

>>155200004
Hot.

Gentlemen, would an Angelic Hazbin Hotel receive any support from Lute?

Also. What sort of swimsuit would Lute wear to the beach with Adam?
I'm looking for...
... Suggestions...

>>155200167
It's more common than you think

>>155200379
Idk. Really depends. Are they on a private beach?

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>>155200423
I thought I had fellow bongs here coz of spelling. Kiwis? It was kiwis??? What are the odds

>>155200358
Like a hotel where Lute redeems Adam by jerking him off?

>>155199655
>Proud fiery latina
>Unironically cannot speak Spanish
>Overcompensates being a no sabo kid by making her character caricatures
Lmao

Do you think Niffty is a schizo?

>>155202269
All Latinos from the American continent forget their original heritage (literally just a mix of whatever native shit the Spanish didn't find offensive plus some actual quality Spanish stuff) after a couple of generations of spending time in actual civilization. Nothing new.

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The LEAST favorite child lol

>>155203212
This confirms that Cain exists and that he did, in fact, kill Abel. Also, absolutely wild Adam's least favorite son isn't the murderer.

Do you think Abel atoned and he's in Heaven now or is Adam genuinely fucked in the head?

>>155203212
>>155203252
>The LEAST favorite child

Is TransLute's cope dead now? Is he still gonna be a retard and ignore the obvious fact that Adam didn't like Abel?

>>155203471
No, he's going to say how he doesn't count ch. Merch as proof. Which, I will say... Is technically valid because I think Viv has said as much? The Streamily prince, for example, are not canon. And from Viv's own mouth, Abel is among Adams least favorite children, but I don't recall her ever saying that he was THE least favorite.

>>155203490
But then again, this motherfucker accounts s press journal which said that Abel was the first born/older than Cain as canon, so it's not like he's exactly consistent with his own sources

>>155203490
>>155203502
Okay so I'm having a stroke I guess.

>>155203268
You probably meant to say Cain right? Thing is we don't know how it went down or how Cain or the average child of Adam and Eve tends to act. Abel is obviously an outlier. Maybe it's was a more complex issue(Cain killing Abel). Maybe Adam and Eve just loved Cain more because he( and possibly the rest of their spawn) was like them. I could see Adam and Eve(especially if she's Lute) disliking Abel for being weak by their standards.

>>155203542
I think that's the implication, yes. All of his children were probably like him. Abel is the black sheep of the family.

A few things... I think we're kind of jumping the gun and assuming that Cain is Adam's favorite child. Certainly he liked him more than Abel, but with the way he was talking about sinners, I have a hard time envisioning him openly liking Cain. I know religious hypocrites exist, obviously, but what justification would Adam give exactly? I think Seth was probably more likely to be his favorite. If at that.

>>155203552
As for Cain being in Heaven. I don't think he's there or in Hell. I think Viv might have went with the immortal wanderer backstory. Funny enough she might twist it so after he was punished with immortality instead of wandering the earth he actually remained with his parents and helped with raising his siblings and building stuff. Like Adam and Eve weren't even that pissed and just told him to go do his chores.

>>155203552
̶A̶b̶e̶l̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶L̶u̶c̶i̶f̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶h̶i̶l̶d̶.̶

>>155203614
Yes. Adam found him and impregnated his angelic pussy.

>>155203610
Not going to lie, the thought of them not liking Abel to the point where if his own brother murdered him, they weren't even distraught that he died, but more upset about Cain is getting in trouble and is now labeled a sinner, is pretty sad to think about. I'm very pro-Adam and Eve being not the best parents, but I don't want them to be complete monsters either?

>>155203574
It's pretty weird if he liked Cain more than Abel considering he's a murderer.

>>155203610
I don't think he's either in heaven or hell. Adam makes fun of Charlie for seeing sinners as her found family, so it doesn't give me the impression that he has any direct family down there. Even though they technically should be, but that's a different discussion.

>>155203688
If that's the case then this strongly implies Heaven is corrupt.

>>155203690
Right? For how passionate he is about the exterminations, and granted, he's less passionate than Lute is, it's really weird for him to just casually excuse the first murderer, no matter how much he liked him. I really want to know what his justification would be if that's the case.

>>155203720
I mean. Heaven IS corrupt....? If my memory serves, in helluva boss, weren't the cherubs providing a blessing for that who experimented on kids and poor people?

>>155203744
Yeah, Lyle Lipton. It doesn't specify whether he experimented on kids or not but he definitely experimented on the poor. He literally admits it. I don't think I would it past him experimenting on poor children.

my theory that perhaps adam genuinely did die first (by accident maybe) and abel was too much of a bitch to explain how he really died while adam was asking how cain was doing entertains me so i'll hold on a little longer.

>>155204016
I think that as well. That Adam died first, I mean. I don't think it's an oversight in the writing like other people say.

>>155204016
>>155204046
Adam is literally stated to be the first human soul in Heaven. So yes, he died first.

>>155204075
No, I know, it's just that the fandom tends to say that it's an oversight or a mistake in the writing. I don't think that's the case. I think it's very purposeful. Same thing with him potentially not having eaten the fruit? According to him, he never made a mistake in his life

>>155204207
see i always took that as him eating the fruit but not viewing it as a mistake (which could be very cute potentially). him not eating the fruit removes a ton of his character agency in being a shitty shit.

unrelated i love that not even 24 hours ago i found someone on twitter saying that their RP partner didn't want to do romantic guitarspear anymore because they decided their relationship was more siblinglike and then we get hornygate.

>>155204286
>unrelated i love that not even 24 hours ago i found someone on twitter saying that their RP partner didn't want to do romantic guitarspear anymore because they decided their relationship was more siblinglike and then we get hornygate.

What's hornygate?

>>155204340
people are getting really pissy and crying misogyny about lute's hallucination of adam being ~sexualised~ by her youtooz blurb like she didn't canonically straddle and grind on him already. which also makes that RP account's decision even funnier.

>>155204379
Bruh she was obviously craving that Dickmaster cock. Even if you don't figure out she's Eve it's still obvious she wants to fuck Adam.

>>155204419
mentally ill women aren't allowed to be horny for a guy like adam!

>>155204584
Women aren't allowed to do shit. If you're a woman and you think you want something you actually don't. You were just manipulated into wanting it by a man.

I keep wondering why everyone is so convinced Lilith or whoever that is in Heaven had nothing to do with the exterminations being allowed.

"Lucifer permitted the exterminations and that's why Lilith left" doesn't explain Lilith ghosting her kid too. Also, one of the two went MIA at the same time exterminations began, was revealed to be chilling in Heaven, is threatened with being kicked out suggesting it isn't an imprisonment and is said to have a direct deal with Adam leader of the exterminations, and it ain't Lucifer.

>>155205141
I'm kind of confused about something... So Lilith disappeared, then that's when the exterminations started, we are. We are under the assumption that Lucifer negotiated a deal with heaven regarding these annual purges, and someone. Please correct me/confirm if I'm correct... But anyway, did it not occur to Lucifer to ask Kevin what was up? Did he not think that her disappearing had anything to do with the exterminations? Especially if she was the one that started this whole thing?? I don't know,

>>155205141
Because people are retards who cling to the Idea that Lilith actually gives a shit about sinners. Like I remember some discussion regarding the look of Adam and someone said to show portrays Lilith as beautiful because she cares about sinners and wanted what's best for them. I'm not joking. Like this is some Charlie level of delusional.

>>155203212
Why give away Abel's blurb now when Lute's was kept secret until people started getting her?

>>155205237
specifically lucifer was able to grant a pardon to the hellborn (imps, succubi etc) instead of heaven razing everything.

>>155205326
I was wondering that too?? But then again, don't they sometimes give out the blurb, and sometimes they don't? Seems pretty random.

>>155205141
I personally think Lucifer followed her lead on the exterminations after learning she permitted them and added the Hellborn pardon. It's not like he of all people is going to go to bat for Sinners when even she won't. What's more, I think he knows full well she's in Heaven. He's purposefully not telling Charlie these things either because he doesn't want to upset her or badmouth his wife, is delusional and thinks Lilith must be doing something important and has good reason, or some mix of both.

>>155205237
HEAVEN, not Kevin. For fucks sake I'm gonna kms

>>155205379
oooh that's gonna crush charlie. i cannot wait.

>>155205237
We don't particularly see Lucifer wondering where she is, just being sad she's gone. >>155205379

>>155205384
>I'm gonna kms

Don't. It's just a simple mistake. It happens to all of us.

>>155205405
Lucifer probably thinks she'll find her way back at some point so why upset Charlie? I guess he was right!

It would also explain why Charlie isn't concerned that Lilith might be in trouble. Lucifer isn't either and may have at some point told her that Lilith must be off doing something important even if he didn't elaborate further. Based on "what did I do to make her leave," Lilith didn't tell Charlie anything before peacing out.

Confession: I don't think Lilith is that interesting.

>>155206264
Currently she isn't.
As for the future. I'm not super confident. She might suffer from old Viv idea syndrome where she's shackled by being an older creation. If we're right about Lute there's no chance Lilith doesn't get completely overshadowed by her (kinda poetic in a way).

>>155206264
The mystery has been dragged out for so long that I genuinely do not care if she is insanely evil, purely good, in between... I'm so over it, I'm sick of looking at her face, that I think when she finally does appear, it'll be lackluster no matter what happens. Viv's should not have moved the Lilith stuff to season 3.

>>155206420
I'd honestly say the same for Lute if she's Eve. Funny enough both her and Lilith are victims of S2 turning into Vox filler season. It seriously screwed over both galls (I'd say Lute a bit more because S1 left bigger expectations).

>>155206264
Viv has to be unafraid to make her as flawed as her family instead of an awesome lady or she will be boring. As much as fans throw around Stella comparisons to get mad about, she's better off leaning more Stella than being the good, hard done by mom and queen many people want her to be. Then they'd all whine about how fandom doesn't care about her (and if they're honest with themselves neither would they).

>>155206558
Oh, absolutely 100%! I agree with that. I love this potential plotline if it's true, but I never said the execution was good! And as I'm parsing through all of Jessica's interviews, she definitely made it seem like we were going to get some kind of reveal in season two, back when it was still the Lilith stuff. Her and Erika even made a video together reenacting that scene in E1 between Charlie and Lute, suggesting a direct confrontation (which we never got). Recently at one of the cons, Jessica, straight up acknowledged that Lute didn't get the payoff that she said she would. I strongly strongly theorize we were supposed to get that Eve reveal in season 2 when it was still the Lilith stuff. That's why I think it's going to happen at the end of season 3.

>>155206619
ideally in terms of personality she's literally exactly like adam, just pointed in a different direction. i say this not for lore accuracy but for pervert guitarprincess reasons.

>>155206558
Season 2 really is bad that way. And because she can't really evolve until Lilith comes back, they didn't know what to do with Charlie herself and screwed her too. The season basically had Charlie make the exact kind of mistakes she'll clearly make when Lilith is back, ignoring everyone and everything to chase her. So now the audience will have a harder time giving her sympathy when it's critical that they do because it'll feel like they're watching her backslide a fucking gain. They did a horrible job at stretching out this plot once they got more seasons than they bargained for and a bunch of characters suffered for it.

Jump on this retard -> >>>/a/290490772

>>155206982
Not your personal army, not interested in beefing with /a/, fuck off

>>155206778
vees continue to prove themselves to be total cancer on the story

>>155207074
The Radiostatic thing was a huge waste of time. I feel bad for the fandom because it's peaked already and it's never going to have that much focus again.

>>155195996
Naw.
>>155196006
Nope.
>>155196058
I rebuke your insults and lies.
And what do ya know about scripture?

Question.

The central idea of the narrative seems to be "no one is beyond redemption". Like, in the first season Angel Dust's entire arc is about him becoming a better person, and when Adam and Lute point out that he's a crackhoe - i.e. the lowest of the low - the narrative disproves it. This indeed points out that the story is about nobody being beyond redemption.

I kind of like the story about redemption doesn't shy from challenging Charlie's beliefs on a Hard Mode (regardless of how Vivzie is going to pull it of) but I'm REALLY interested in whether she recognizes how nuclear is Valentino for her narrative.

Like, in order to make Angel Dust an abused crackhoe, someone has to abuse him and that someone is Valentino. Ok, that's fine, but the story is about EVERYONE being redeemable and more than that, the story isn't inclined to make the Vees two dimensional (much) - they have their own struggles, problems, insecurities, loyalties and camaraderie. And in the finale, Valentino and Velvette join the quire, seemingly indicating that they are part of this "not beyond salvation" group.

I kind of vibe with that, in the sense that again, the narrative doesn't shy away from its own premise and stays true to itself even in the face of difficult questions, but like... Valentino is straight up rapist. Like, isn't it a big No-No in modern media. Vivzie's fanbase appear to such that sexual abuse is a hot topic and Valentino not being raped by a cactus in the end is going to cause a nuclear meltdown. Meanwhile, for Charlie to triumph, it feels like, yes, everyone should be redeemable - even Vox, even Alastor, even Valentino. But I'm not sure women and virtue-signalers are going to accept that.

Vivzie HAS TO understand that right? For people who read her social media: is she brave enough to stay true to Christian values of salvation fir everyone, even rapists?

>>155207267
We collectively know a lot more than you. Fuck off. Rebuked. Leave.

Who's Roo?

>>155207318
Prove it.
And i'm staying for as long as i want.

>>155207339
You admitting that you've only read the Bible for a year, and think you're a genius is proof enough. Don't play stupid games. At the very least learn to spell and type properly. Fucking ass retard.

Why does this guy keep saying "ya" instead of "you" and "Raye" instead of "Ray" ?

>>155199670
You summoned them. Now what's-his-face is here.

>>155207386
He has a biological love of fried chicken?

>>155207267
>And what do ya know about scripture?
I know that patience and humility is a virtue, for example. And I've never touched the Bible in my life.

>>155207409
Look at that. Someone who hasn't even touched the Bible already knows a lot more than this stupid ass religious larper, Jake/TransLute

>>155199490
>>155199567
>>155199611

I can absolutely buy Eve/Lilith was an original idea they were working with until it got reworked, keeping the core “Evil vengeful Eve” element but repackaging it through Lute. Hell, that’s probably why she’s got such a placeholder-sounding name, because that’s Not the name the crew and eventually the show itself will be calling her ;)

If that’s what happened, they made the right choice. One change I think is interesting is how Eve originally was going to be furious at being blamed for the Fall, whereas if Lute is indeed Eve, it would seem she completely accepts her culpability (however proportionate it is or isn’t)) and sees it as her mission to fix it. That is *far* more interesting that a jaded Eve pissed at being misblamed.

Side note, though, the complete quote was “second best in Heaven’s *army*”, still a pretty unsubtle clue they placed in there.

Like, seriously, the more we learn, the harder the theory gets to dispel.

Tripfags are easy to filter so you never see them

>>155203721
>I really want to know what his justification would be if that's the case.
maybe he likes Enoch

>>155203252
>Cain exists
"He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct." - Apocalypse Now.

>>155207460
Teach me

>>155207371
It does not matter how long one has accepted Christ for but how much one has lived for Christ.
If ya yourself are Christian then ya would know that. And yet ya haven't mentioned how long ya yourself have been with Christ, assuming ya were ever with Him at all.
Also, i rebuke your insults and lies.
I made no such claims, all i said is that I can help that guy with his question, don't try to make up what i said.
>>155207386
>Why does this guy keep saying "ya" instead of "you"
PTSD.
>and "Raye" instead of "Ray" ?
I've never done such a thing.
>>155207409
True true, but can ya say such virtues can be found in these threads?
>>155207427
Do ya even know Jesus's final words before His death?

>>155206337
> If we're right about Lute there's no chance Lilith doesn't get completely overshadowed by her (kinda poetic in a way).

Not as much one might think. Let’s forget, Lilith is as important as she is cuz we spend the vast majority of the show in Hell, where she is the Queen, albeit absent. On Earth, most humans probably don’t even know she exists (till they die). And as controversial a figure she may be, Eve is still the Mother of humanity and regarded as such. She won’t be as universally reviled as Lucifer and Lilith; modern souls probably pity her as a poor fool, which to Lute, she probably hates more.

>>155207460
I rebuke your insults and lies.
Proof that anons actually want to interact with me.

>>155207567
Nope. Rebuked.

>>155207567
No. Proof that idiot anons like me don't know how to filter out tripfags like "ya".

>>155203721
Easiest explanation? It’s still his baby boy.

>>155207605
Don't think so.

>>155207605
Could be a likely answer.

>>155207298
i'm pretty sure it's going to default to the 'everyone CAN be redeemed, but not everyone will WANT to and it can't be forced' which gives a handy out for anyone deemed 'too' evil. so you don't have to grapple with the harder implications but also have an out so the themes of the show aren't wrecked.

>>155207498
Add the tripcode you want to stop seeing to your filter

>>155207702
I'm 4chan illiterate. We can have filters here on 4chan????

>>155207572
Naw.
>>155207582
Why insult yourself like that?

>>155207695
>everyone CAN be redeemed, but not everyone will WANT to and it can't be forced

Not to be obnoxious, but is this not obvious?? Why does the fandom think that the narrative is pushing the theme of "everyone WILL be redeemed?" It's all about choices. How is that not clear to people??

>>155207739
Yeah, I filter the generals I want to read to the top of the catalog. There's a native filter and if you use desktop there's userscripts like 4chanX that let you customize the way the website looks and have a much more powerful and flexible filter.

>>155207742
Rebuked.

If you're on mobile: three dots menu next to a post, 'filter selected text', add the tripcode with the exclamation marks, set board to co, type to tripcode, check hide. You can filter names too. When new posts that match your filters load you won't see the contents.

>>155207766
Naw.

>>155207800
Yup. Rebuked.

>>155207786
Now I can see that Jake is posting but I can't see what he's saying. He is rebuked.

>>155207827
Still doesn't stop me from replying, still doesn't stop other anons from replying to me.
Also, that's not the right use of the word "rebuked".
>>155207826
Nope.
I rebuke your insults and lies.

>>155207827
>>155207786
Got it!!! Thanks, much better.

>>155207827
Forever and always. Very good.

So, who is Roo?

Anyway. I hope that whatever story was pitched to Amazon is as good as we hope it is. I have a little spark of hope being that this is what supposedly greenlit the show in the first place. At this time, I just doubt that a convoluted twin theory is what sold them on it. And I really hope both Lilith and Lucifer get an earful from Charlie for fucking over Eve (and Adam). They're very clearly painted as the obvious heroes of the story... A little too hard actually

>>155207747
>Why does the fandom think that the narrative is pushing the theme of "everyone WILL be redeemed?" It's all about choices. How is that not clear to people??
You don't get it. Redemption in this context is like consent. You may consent, your girlfriend may consent, but if people on the internet aren't consenting the your sex isn't consensual.

Even if the season 3 is all about Valentino finding redemption and all is perfectly executed, a lot of people aren't going to like that on principle. People in general aren't really accepting of redemption, because its complicated, but the internet in particular is very bipolar. A person is either good, or he did something and they are bad forever.

And in case of Valentino we are dealing with rape, abuse and other things that are viewed as unforgivable. Alastor being redeemed after him killing people for fun the fans will accept, but Valentino being redeemed after raping Angel Dust? C'mon.

I'm not really asking from the point of narrative, cause there it's obvious - if Valentino really tries for redemption, he should receive it according to Charlie's heartfelt believes and narrative themes. But imagine people's reaction on Twitter/X: "What do you mean abusers can be redeemed? Vivzie is a literal Nazi!!!"

That's why I'm asking whether she really understands what she's doing with humanizing Valentino. I like that she does so, but I wonder if she understands the consequences the narrative around that creates. The plot is already handled a bit amateurishly, even if I like it.

>>155208025
I see your point. I was answering regarding the narrative specifically, but if you're asking about what you listed... Then no, I don't think Viv really knows what she's doing. I could absolutely see her redeeming Valentino, however well executed it may be, and maybe even playing it for laughs. I just don't think she really thought about these themes through. I think if people are expecting some deep metal analysis on redemption, whether that's something people deserve, whether that's something they can earn despite being a zoophilic pedo rapist who was on Epstein's Island, etc people are going to be really disappointed. That's not what these shows are. They're not going to really comment on that sort of thing.

That's why I wonder why she didn't just do more of a typical Heaven vs Hell kind of thing. Why tackle redemption? But whatever.

>>155208085
I fucking hate/love this.

>>155208014
scrumptious fluffy guitarspear... you just know she's the one who crawled under him like that too.

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>>155208085
>>155208092
There's more

>>155208085
Would this make Cain Meg or Stewie?

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>>155208102
And the piece of resistance. The fact that this shit fits is hilarious.

>>155208102
YESSSS

>>155208094
He's her big warm weighted blanket

>>155199651
You’re right, I didn’t word that correctly. I made it sound like there was originally an Eve character who was scrapped at the last minute and reworked into an already-existing character, Lute. That’s not what I mean at all.

I’m saying the Lilith/Eve twin concept was own of the many ideas thrown around during development, maybe even the one Viv wanted to pursue most, but as the story developed, that concept continued to be discussed, changed and refined, as concepts naturally do. Eventually, we end up with Lute — aka, Eve

>>155208113
>>155208102
>>155208085
he truly was the family guy

>>155208508
Yup

>>155207160
I'm fine with Radiostatic but find the fans' superiority complex funny because of how shoved in and unnecessary its focus was. You can tell it isn't even going to matter from now on so what was the point? Viv indulges the Vees fans in her crew too much.

>>155207298
The assumption that Charlie will have much to do with the Valentino plot is too bold. Season 2 seems to be taking the show much more in an ensemble cast direction where Charlie is a touchpoint but every plot doesn't have her direct involvement or revolve around her. It wouldn't surprise me if the Angel Dust plot goes on without her for the most part, especially with everything else going on. Angel basically has his own supporting cast for his arc.

>>155208778
I forgot the rest of it:

As for Valentino's redemption, I think he and all the Vees' "redemption arc" is just going to be learning to prioritize their only shared redeeming quality, which is how much they care about each other. They'll probably give up power and their souls just to keep each other safe or something. The show will likely put forth the idea that anyone has the capacity to be better than they are right now, even if that doesn't mean they will become good people. Some have a long way to go to get there and some like the Vees probably never will.

Now fans still won't be happy with that. They want Valentino eviscerated and permadead and will accept no less. But Viv can probably thread the needle by at least giving people the evisceration part without the perma death.

However, I don't know how she'll pull off the Vees spinoff. The rapist trio shenanigans show feels like it won't go over well.

Name ideas for Zombie Adam and Lute!Eve’s hellborn humanity 2.0 children:

> Skullcrusher… Razorwings… Mayhem… oh, Larry’s a good one. Any kid named Larry’s already had their trajectory set XD

>>155208888
The concept of zombie Adam is cringe. Why does he have to be a zombie? Why can't he just come back to life?

>>155209794
people see this shot (the og not the redrawn one) and think lute can't stand being around adam beyond professionalism like no she's not the one who looks nervous about this being exposed!

>>155210532
>'lute i think i need to go on a diet'
>'who told you that? i'll kill them'

>>155211498
i honestly don't think either would be embarrassed or stop.

>>155211701
They might stop for Sera specifically if they were supposed to be doing something professional.

Adam basically looks like David Tennant's Doctor Who if he let himself go.

>>155212307
I'm sorry who?

>>155212402
Who?
Doctor Who?

>>155212536
Don't make jokes. :(

>>155208107
So Stewie grows up to be Black Hat or someone like Black Hat if hes Cain in the Hellaverse, kinda fits

>>155212307
You mean David Tennant's Doctor, because the character's name is just "The Doctor".

>>155212961
Actually the show's called Doctor Who because he's called Doctor Who.

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Adam right before he regenerated into Matt Smith Adam

>>155213820
Adam and the Weeping Angel

Adam's maskless look is based on his Va Alex Brightman. Take of that what you will.

>>155214580
..... Right. And the sky is blue.
Where have you been?

>>155214580
It's based a bit on Brightman but mostly it's based on David Tennant as Doctor Who.

>>155214580
>>155215569
NGL it's kinda mean when people say Adam's ugly when he's based on Alex Brightman and then turn around and glaze Lilith like she ain't generic blonde woman.

>>155216146
People who glaze Lilith are retarded. And to be fair I haven't seen much glazing for her looks? But then again, I avoid much of the Lilith fandom anyway so...

Also, I don't mean to be disrespectful to the guy but he really does look like just your average Joe. Neither ugly nor handsome. So I get really confused when people glaze Adam like he's the most handsome guy ever. He is so incredibly averaged. Only thing he's got going on for him is his height... And his gut, if you're into that.

>>155216146
Adam's hot, I'll die on this hill. He's hotter than any other man in this show. I think if you gave terminally offline women, like, quintessential suburban moms, a lineup of Hazbin men and asked them who's the most attractive they'd point to Adam (maskless). Some might choose human Vox but if you used a screencap like this >>155213820 it'd be Adam.

>>155214580
>>155216146
>>155216217
i know lucifer's INTENDED to be sexy but he's just hideous to me. never saw the appeal, while lilith is every generic sexbomb design ever. adam's way more appealing to me specifically because he's a normal looking dude with bonus squish and surprise surprise, people do like normal looking dudes. he stands out in the cast specifically because he's got a chiller design.

>>155216273
Lucifer is like Voldemort and 11 year old Draco Malfoy rolled into one ugly being

>>155216273
Lucifer is such a nothing, design wise. I was surprised that this was a character that intended to be aesthetically pleasing, because it really doesn't look like she tried at all? He looks like any other of her character is pure. Dare I say, when comparing the two, Alastor looks a lot more interesting and fappable.

>>155216273
>lilith is every generic sexbomb design ever

Now that you mentioned it do people only like her because she has Jessica Rabbit rip off proportions? Cuz other than that she's pretty standard.

>>155216301
Judging from the fact that RA is popular because women find Al hot and Lucifer is just there for them to self insert into the short soft uwu boy and take deer cock I'd say Alastor is more interesting design wise.

>>155216273
I swear I'm not trying to be contrarian or "akshually" But like per your own admission, Adam is relatively normal/ average looking. Which of course is going to stand out when the rest of the character designs are extra. That's my point though. Whether someone finds him unconventionally attractive or has a fetish for fat guys, isn't really my point. I'm just arguing that he's average / normal.

I guess it's kind of bothers me because Viv liked a tweet saying that Lilith, the first woman, is this bombshell, while Adam is normal, "some guy". They should both be conventionally attractive.

>>155216300
God you just made me realise that fact and I'm hating every second of it.

>>155216346
Absolutely, even if you're not into the fuck ass hair or the colors, I don't think the design is bad at all? And his human design is definitely cute. I'm surprised Viv didn't design him, as far as we know, to be aesthetically pleasing. Whereas Lucifer, she did? That's so sad lol. Like ... that's her trying.

>>155216273
Just from my observations most women who find Adam ugly aren't attracted to men in general, or are mostly attracted to other women IRL but make exceptions for certain stylized cartoon men like Vox and Alastor. People who are attracted to men IRL usually think Adam looks fine.

>>155216360
>Whereas Lucifer, she did? That's so sad lol. Like ... that's her trying.

It's probably a byproduct of her trying to make him attractive to her specifically. Thing is that just makes him the creator's favourite fetish goblin. Some folks like licking feet and find them super attractive but that shit doesn't apply for everyone.

>>155216522
What's she gonna do to him

>>155216544
Test him to see how much food can fit in his stomach

>>155216570
Well? What were the results?

>>155216592
Inconclusive. More food is needed.

Guys, I keep seeing all these industrial dairy trucks pull up outside the laboratory. What are they doing in there?

Your choice for Hazbin threads on /co/ right now are Adam force feeding or Niffty shitting.

>>155216765
What?

>>155216802
There's a second Hazbin thread up talking about Niffty pissing and shitting herself right now >>155211283

>>155216815
Isn't it kinda redundant having two Hazbin threads?

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>>155216848
We have a Hero thread and a Dark thread just as the good Lord intended

Sooo.... I'm almost done with that Lute master Google doc thing (I'm collecting every/most commentaries, interviews, threads, etc that talk about Lute). This was supposed to be a Lute/Eve doc thing since people were asking about it. I don't know, for me personally, I think just the links and articles and all that stuff is more than enough evidence. I normally dislike any theory threads that just have a lot of yapping and my opinion. I was thinking after I finish this, I would make one specifically for Lute/Eve but I don't know if that's way too much. What do you guys think?

>>155217040
I'm excited to read it! Before you make it public make sure you're doing it on a throwaway Google account and make sure you removed the tracking parameters from any Youtube links or I guess Tiktok links if there are any. Youtube is retarded and will leak your channel name if you used the link you get by clicking the share button.
I genuinely don't think you'll have any trouble from anyone here at all (not even the bug honestly) but I'd hate you to get a callout from some Twitter idiot who hates your theory enough to try and cancel you for some nebulous bullshit thing like having no antis in bio or interacting with SitaraDawn.

>>155216868
>adam will never sit on you while making broody hen noises and pecking anyone who dares to disturb you
why fucking live

>>155217101
Noted!!!

>>155217101
Nta But how the hell does one remove the parameters on a tiktok link?

>>155217319
I have no idea since I don't use TikTok but I know it leaks your username.

>>155200004
>>155200037

This unironically. I was sold an adult cartoon about horny devils and I am getting my horny devils damn it!

We already have that helluvaboss collaboration with a lingerie ship with Leonard and verosika outfits why not a collaboration with bad dragons for real demonic genitals? Give us pentious hemipenis and cherri bombs monopoly!

Also I unironically want a spinoff or something for pornhub. Ralph bakshi gave us fritz the cat so can viv. Make rule34 mainstream!

>>155215569
Oh people were arguing about what actor hes supposed to look like and its Canon that he looks like Alex brightman.

Wonder if Abel is meant to be Patrick stump too. Seems to have the same blond hair and babyface. And if he was a new addition to the cast for sure they'd base him off his VA if he didnt have a set design already.

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I'm tired of looking through the Guitarspear tag on Twitter and seeing posts about "Queerplatonic" it's just an extremely boring way of saying "Getting no action" and I diagnose people who say it with humongous gay

>>155216765
Can we have a 3rd one for cherri bomb fucking? Specifically ducking the first guy she saw at Club Consent and took to the sex room?
Same room that same guy dragged pentious into.

>>155217758
I never fucking understood this term. It's like... Okay, so you're extra super best friends who live together??

>>155217833
Nobody cares about Cherri, not even you

I don't care for the show but I want to fuck multiple characters

>>155217758
>>155217850
from what i can tell it's either

>a desperate attempt to make a cishet ship 'worthy' of fandom discussion under the queer umbrella instead of standing on their own
>fear of backlash for a toxic ship so they pretend there's nothing romantic/sexual going on to escape (one time i saw a fanart for some random fotm where they'd drawn two characters making out and tagged it something like 'QPR ONLY if you tag as the ship you're blocked!')
>dumb kids too scared of romantic and sexual relationships to admit they have crushes on their friends
>a catch-all term for relationships with the 99+ flavours of asexual that exist for some reason which is the least objectionable on the grounds that it actually simplifies something.

>>155217850
You know how poorly socialized girls think they must be enbies because they think women all women are barbie doll caricatures? It's like that but for people who think romantic relationships look like Hallmark movies.

>>155217882
Im curious as to why. Why is cherri such a nothing burger, especially with her role in sir pentious' storyline. She could have been his second chance at saving that prostitute from Jack the ripper.

>>155218098
Viv kinda forgot to make her actually interesting.

>>155218173
Many such cases.

>>155218098
They ruined any potential this ship had in the pilot. Squandered all of it in the series. They also set her up to be apparently a good friend to Angel, only for the series to destroy that. She is so fucking unlikable and then the times she acts decent, she contributes nothing interesting.

>>155218098
Cyclops designs kind of suck in general and she's not even the best cyclops girl in the show. Niffty and Vaggie are better.

cherri's there because otherwise husk has to carry the hotel's side of angel's entire subplot by himself and it'd look even weirder that nobody else apparently cares.

>>155217040
I think you should make it for bragging rights. It never hurts.

>>155218218
She's fucking horrible to Pentious and the love story angle is forced. Doesn't help that they're apart now and Pentious is more entertaining with Sera and Emily.

>>155218307
Lmao That's a fair point. It really shouldn't be too long because it's just... sourcing references that I'm already listing. The only thing though, what sucks, is that I can't list really any leaks or other such information. But it's really not needed. Okay, thanks for your guys's input. I'll make sure to do one for the theory specifically.

>>155218319
In the Pitch Bible, he was actually supposed to have a crush on Rosie. That would have been 10x times more interesting if they insisted on making Cherri this way.

You know, I can't help but wonder.. If Rosie really is Lilith, regardless if she's Charlie's biological mom, or the nice Lilith that maybe raised Charlie for a little bit, I wonder if Sir Pentious' crushing on her was supposed to allude to that (you know, because... Snake/serpent. Lilith. Lol)

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>>155218098
She was originally going to be more of a bad influence on Angel than a ride or die, which would have been a lot more interesting than whatever they're doing with her now

>>155218374
I mean, that's the vibe I got from her debut. Which is like.... That's fine, obviously they set that up even in the pilot. It's just her attitude with him that is fucking gross. "Angellllll You've been texting me depressing shit all day :\" and doesn't let the poor fucker rest, knowing exactly the kind of work he does.

>>155218173
Oh yeah. Perhaps got lost in the shuffle as she retooled the Angels and Demons arc to Hazbin. Apparently she was a Demon Hunter named Diza who would have dated Izzi, that cyclops demon from the Addict video. Now shes filler.

>>155218218
Ooh how did fanmade cherrisnake go? I only got into the show on Amazon so I know nothing of the pilot era stuff. Just know it was a canonized fan ship.
As for being a bad friend to angel wasn't that the point? Shes the tempting devil to contrast husk's redeeming angel.

>>155218244
Oh I was hoping shed be Miss Fanservice along with angel's Mr fanservice. Basically be his fellow club slut and give het men/WLs some titilation. Guess that's what we have dominatrix niffty for.

Fun fact they had that leather kink stuff at least way back in the 30s so for sure living Niffty could have been a Domme in the 50s.

>>155218430
fanmade cherrisnake cleared my skin and watered my crops. It was exactly why I was so excited to see it in the series proper.

>>155217850
My take is they reinvented the bromance. Like how tomboys are nonvinary now because they are girls who do boy things.

>>155218359
Oh they changed a lot from the pitch bible. Basically Baxter was supposed to be the new resident and be the mad scientist. And Mimzy was supposed to be a perminant cast member. In fact she helps pent do a love ballad for rosie.

Wonder if that meant Baxter would have been redeemed and would have had...nope hed still be madman with niffty.

>>155218374
Question: what is picrel and where from? I am guessing this is an audition sheet. Is there a collection of BTS and prototype stuff? People seem to have these rsre stuff like character sheets and the pitch bible but I dont know where to look.

>>155218663
Some people have uploaded it on Instagram and Reddit. Literally just look up pitch Bible or the audition sheets. I do know the audition sheets were leaked from the patreon itself.

>>155218448
Elaborate. Most of the stuff I see is them having snake toddlers or her helping him pass eggs or fishing him.
What was the dynamic? I was retooling them. Basically pentious was the lolcow of hell and cherri was his biggest troll. She considered him a "friend" while he did not but his redemption process made him appreciate her more. Same cringing as her debut episode but what really tilted the scales was him getting wasted by Adam. She felt that was too far and now figures she'll never see her favorite vi tim again. Season 2 she defends his name and honor when they besmirch him and then the ship sails.

>>155218673
Will do!

Fuck there is a treasure trove of content. No doubt completely outdated now hah.

>>155218798
Actually, the audition sheets are still pretty spot on. The sheets contain several voice lines, I guess for the actor to run through all of them, and then the writers or Viv pick the ones they like. Almost everything we've seen in the show are there. So you'll see alternate dialogue that could have potentially been picked and would have made it in the final cut. I really liked the Lute ones lol they show how abusive she is to the girls. I wish they would have kept it in, because stupid larpers are under the assumption that she actually cares about them.

>>155218405
Eh maybe its just me but I read that "depressing shit" line as her way of saying he was in a funk and shes here to cheer him up. They both banter and bust balls afterall. Especially when she was offering him drugs and telling him to not worry about work for the night. Not the best solution for that case but she was looking out for her bro the only way a party girl knows how. Could have been done clearer I bet.

>>155218878
I guess the delivery coupled with her facial expression / demeanor, at least for me, came across as her being really annoyed versus, "Hey I know you're feeling bad, so let's do something fun!" Like, eh, I guess I can see that's what they were going for, I just didn't like the execution. Viv has issues with execution at times. Or I'm stupid. Or both. Either way.

>>155218857
Ooh ooh examples? Im guessing these are linereads to show how they work as a cast. Hence two of cherris options involving a second character.

>>155218922
I'm not at my computer right now, so I can't upload them. I'll try to remember to post here later. But.. The other exorcists names were Clitorissa, Labianne (yes I'm serious) - In one, she's training them, saying that she's been too lenient with their training lately, and then breaks her arm, calls her a pathetic whelp. In another, I forget what the girl did but Lute told her she cut her food and expected her to demote herself by two ranks. Shit like that. Very Dragon Queen. I dug it. It would have driven the point home that no, she does not give a fuck about these girls like how the larpers want her to

>>155218956
Also, I mean, we can deduce that from her audition sheet where it says that she will, without hesitation, leave you behind if you make a single mistake. Kind of weird for a character like this to have the song 'Salute by Little Mix' in hindsight. I wonder why that is. Oh wait, no I don't lol

>>155218919
Nah a lot of stuff seems first drafty so of course they'd be awkward and confusing first run.

Like instead of cherri taking everyone to the club she should have done the old cliche of throwing a house party when Charlie and Vaggie are gone. A way better piece of evidence against angels supposed redemption would have been taking advantage of Charlie's charity rather than go out for drinks instead of...bible study?
Also would make that infamous scene make more sense. Rather than a club having incidental sex rooms its just randos hooking up in the spare bedrooms.
Oh and then Velvette or. Valentino catch wind of some wild party happening at Lucifers abandoned dump and then we get real stakes.

>>155218956
> Clitorissa, Labianne

Mentioned in the playbill! Therefor canon!

Bet all this stuff was in the original scripts but due to the episode count getting cut from 12/20 to 8 they had to scrap a lotnof stuff.

Hopefully in the end we get the FMA Brotherhood treatment. The show was proven a big enough hit to warrant a proper retelling.

>>155219082
Were they?? I don't remember them in the play bill!

>>155218956
I mean if she's Eve and the Exorcists might be copies/based on her as a template she might punish them and abuse them as a form of self hate. She could see them as an extension of herself and feel disgusted whenever they display weakness.

>>155219091
I swear I saw those names in relation to Adam. Or the Exorcists. Like adams bio talking about his exorcist army or something.

I know that's where we learned about Buddy McSluggy (that slug who wanted to touch Charlie's parts and jerked off to all of angels movies) and the Speaker of God from Seras bio.

>>155218976
>she will, without hesitation, leave you behind if you make a single mistake
All the more interesting that she never holds Adam's weakness in his final fight against him?

>>155219099
That's literally my theory. To a T! That's exactly what I think is going on

>>155219131
Clitorissa and Labianne appear in the audition sheets only! Maybe you mixed them up? I can't recalled these names appearing anywhere else.

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>>155218857
When the audition lines were posted, everyone HATED Adam for some reason, then he ended up being the board's fave character.

I still mourn Chodey Foster to this day

>>155219143
Yup. I'm keeping in mind to shut down the larpers after the Eve reveal if they keep asking as to why Lute was abusing the Exorcists.

>>155219133
She really wants that first man dick.

>>155219169
Her figurine literally says that.

>>155219160
Looks like they took this idea and applied it to Val instead

>>155219158
I swear I saw them elsewhere because the quote you gave came from...wait wait the audition sheet is the one with the picture and has the audition song right? You may be right then hah! I stand corrected.

>>155218956
>>155219082
>>155219131
>>155219158
for some reason the thing that's throwing me is the idea that adam knows enough about female anatomy that he knows what a labia is.

>>155219160
also apparently a film buff for knowing who jodie foster is.

>>155219225
He did tell vaggie that he named her after the best thing ever. Dude has a special interest.

Hah wonder if that is a one off joke or if he is supposed to be every kind of bro out there including film bro.

>>155219286
Imagine how many one night stands he kicked out in the middle of the night for having cringe woman opinions on movies.

>>155219199
Yeah, sorry, admittedly I'm calling them both the audition sheet. So there's the audition sheet that lists the characters blurb, who they are, what role they play, and their song. Then there are the.... I really don't know what to call them? Audition lines? But those are different, correct. But neither of them are in the playbill

>>155219286
this also means that if adam's not touching the clit or the g spot it's completely on purpose.

>>155219327
>watching angel dust's 'spider in the stable'
>'oh my god you dumb bitch it's OBVIOUSLY an allegory for the political situation of poland circa 1965'

>>155219327
Nah more likely he bullied them into the right opinion. Or something. Just going off of him bullying that virtue chick into sleeping with him.

Say with all the talk of rape from valentino to pentious "having sex with everyone" has anyone addressed the virtue chick? It sounded like coercion especially since she was originally into the drummer.

...now I am reminded of his bio in the playbill saying he is popular with all women. Imagine if that's what he thinks but in reality he just coerced them into bed. Dark shit.

>>155219428
>he calls lute straight after to come finish the movie with him
>she always appreciates his mansplaining and shows just the right amount of humble awe at his sophisticated taste in movies

>>155219509
I'll be honest, it did not come across to me as coercion, it more so came across as she was fed up with his persistence and just gave him some coochie to shut him up.

I've said it once and I've said it again, people are way too caught up with the idea that Adam was actually important. The virtue chick, who by all intents and purposes should know exactly who he is, was not initially interested in him. He's a loser! He's that guy who talks a big game and says all this shit. That's blatantly untrue, like him getting pussy (probably after begging a lot) and being rich and being famous. Lol

>>155219423
Nah my bad I confused your linereads for the audition sheet. Forget if it was for adams sheet or.lutes.

>>155219509
No, in the play bill it said that he was voted the biggest dick in heaven (very much a joke, double meaning, nobody likes him) and that everyone wants him and thinks he's super cool. I like it. I like the idea that the first man is just a loser lol

>>155219549
That's part of the joke. He's a loser but so is Lute, but they've got each other's backs. They only like one another LOL. They're each other's biggest (only) fans

Alex Brightman did say that Adam is like, this 40-year-old guy who's still wears his high school graduation ring. He's a loser! That's the point lmao

>>155219549
> I'll be honest, it did not come across to me as coercion, it more so came across as she was fed up with his persistence and just gave him some coochie to shut him up.

What do you think coercion is? He literally did not take no for an answer in this interpretation. And to add tonthe dark tone most angels and winners are agreeable by nature and would most likely fawn over fight/flight/freeze/fawn.

>>155219750
It's a virtue, not a winner.

>>155219750
To give in because she's scared? Which I don't think she was. I think he was being really fucking annoying. She didn't want to hear any more of his bullshit. She's a Virtue. She (probably) could get anyone she wants.

>>155219758
Implying higher choir of angel would have resisted his coercion and therefor this chick was into it?

>>155219750
"to jse force, power, or threats to make someone do something against their will." That's what they're saying, it would not have been unwilling. She eventually gave in to shut him up, doesn't mean that she didn't want to. He was just low on her list, thought of him as a loser. That's what I'm saying.

Just because he's the first man doesn't mean he's above the virtues or the other Angel or powers. He's just the first human man who has an honorary title

>>155219802
Yes...? She has more power than him, she could have just easily zapped him away. And archangel ain't shit to a virtue angel. He thinks he's the shit because he's the first of his shitty species, and now he has a fancy title (honorary) with clip-on wings. He can't force any of them to do shit, save for the winners maybe. Also it's clear this Heaven wouldn't endorse sexual assault or coercion.

>>155219540
>if he ever talked to angel about this angel would be DELIGHTED that someone actually noticed the hidden complexity of his work.

I don't like how Adam fucks Lute. I hate the implied lack of respect she has for herself for being cucked.

There, I said it. I'm sorry. I'm not saying it's his fault because he doesn't know apparently her feelings, nor would he owe her a romantic relationship. Him not knowing just makes her look even more pathetic. I can't

>>155219872
cucks ++

I wonder why they're leaving Adam's feelings ambiguous when it comes to Lute. I would say that it's straightforward that he clearly didn't like her back, but the crew hardcore shipping it makes this confusing.

>>155219966
Honestly maybe S3 will shed more light on the situation. S2 couldn't give that much critical information right away.

>>155222211
Cute.

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Can Abel do this too?

>>155223053
If he can he'll never use it.

>>155223053
I don't think he's an archangel.

>>155219966
Not reciprocating is the generic and 'easy' narrative answer. Aka - here's our crazy villain going even crazier because she's deluding herself that Adam was in love with her. However I think we the audience would get some more narrative cues if this was the case. Keeping it ambiguous suggests the situation is way more complex than that and we'll get a payoff. We don't know exactly why the situation is difficult (one popular theory is he never dared to cross a line with her out if fear he'd fuck it up and lose her) but there is probably some reason for it.
Viv is an experienced fangirl and more than any other showrunner I can think of she's fully tuned into the shipper fangirl experience. She's said somewhere (I'd love to find it again) that she takes a lot of pleasure in making the ships she likes canon after buildup and then feeding the fans with lots of merch. She is somewhat of a romantic and if I were to guess which version of the Adam and Lute dynamic she prefers I think she'd prefer it reciprocated.

>>155224265
Yeah, I think that's where this is heading too. Especially if the alleged Adam/Eve endgame spoiler

Viv's approach to ships in general is different from most other showrunners - most will brush off questions about shipping and give the impression they think it's something silly that fans will do in their own time but don't really want to engage with it. Gooseworx made statements early on in TADC that there wouldn't be any shipping in the show and fans could do what they wanted because it wouldn't affect canon. Viv on the other had says multiple times that there will be shipping, there are ships she herself likes and dislikes and she's not subtle about it. She considers the shipping element a core part of how viewers will interact with her show and it's a pretty refreshing stance.

>>155224421
Consider also that neither character has any serious alternative potential love interests and I'm sure that must be where this is going eventually.

The other thing is that if the writers were trying to portray Lute as a silly delusional lovesick girl then why doesn't she agonize over Eve or consider what Eve means to Adam at all? Oh yeah, because that's her

>>155224494
Interesting how we get zero input on what Lute thinks of Eve. We could maybe say that she hates Abel BECAUSE he's Eve's kid?

Trust me. There will be no Christmas in 2026.

>>155224813
Shut the fuck up. You aren't wanted.

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Men should be treated like this

>>155219842
Do we know if virtues outrank Winners? In Hell the Sinners outrank most of the Hellborn except Goetia and Sins.

>>155225980
It's a Virtue. It's the equivalent to a Sin.

>>155225980
>>155225996

There's two ways to interpret the term. The first one would be how the show calls the Princes of Hell the Sins so in turn their countering Archangels would be called the Virtues.

Going by angelology Virtues are the 5th choir in the heavenly host sitting between the Dominions and the Powers (who are suspiciously like the Exorcists. Food for thought)
The Seraphim are the highest ranking angel in the heavenly host.

>>155225996
If she was an equivalent to a Sin he would have namedropped her.

>>155226103
>the show calls the Princes of Hell the Sins
what

The Seven Great Demon Lords would body the Hellaverse sins

Sorry to be a stick in the mud: Lucifer created Hell, the Goetia but more importantly, the Sins. Yes, this has been said in the Patreon several times.

Why do you think Satan sings "Looks like we were betrayed by one of our own." when referring to Stolas in Mastermind?

>>155226130
Who gives a fuck.

>>155226146
Me, I care

>>155218319
I'm pretty sure Cherri being horrible to Pentious is the point because he's going to get with Emily or Niffty (I'm betting on Niffty.)

>>155218374
I think this would have made the audience hate Cherri Bomb and Cherrisnake which is not the direction Vivzie wanted to go into.

>>155226207
He's not getting with Niffty. Pure delusion

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>>155226207
Emily would be tight, because Cherri would see her as a straight upgrade over her (which is accurate)

>>155219509
If Adam had been coercing women since before the extermination then that's a sign Heaven is corrupt.

>>155226293
The Exterminations are already a sign Heaven is corrupt. Are you dense.

>>155226314
Sorry
*that's another one of the signs

>>155226293
it also renders sera's arc far more complex because now she has to reckon with thousands of years of letting adam face zero consequences for doing this, which would be weird considering how focused her arc has been on purely the exterminations so far. she would've known what he was doing; he was bragging about it! it'd also narratively be off to have a woman put to task for adam's crimes considering adam's already had the ultimate punishment in death, but sera's the only one left to take that accountability since lute's just a subordinate.

>>155224433
This is because viv herself was and is a big shipper correct? Like how a creator who was big into death battles would provide excruciating stats so they and other death battle fans would have canon accurate battles.

Viv and the hellaverse seems to touch a side of girl geekdom few ever do. Very rare.

>>155226117
Lucifer,Satan,Mammon,Beezelbub,Leviathan,Belphagor, and Asmodeus are called the princes of hell in demonology grimoirs like the lantern of light and the lesser key of Solomon. Each rules a specific sin and so Viv simplified it and just made the title "Sin". Like Asmodeus is the Sin of lust not the Prince of Lust.

>>155226491
ok. not sure what this has to do with the Hellaverse.

>>155224433
>Gooseworx made statements early on in TADC that there wouldn't be any shipping in the show
that's just a lie
zooble and gangle literally had sex in the end and the tranny made every female character a lesbian

>>155226207
Evidense of this? In the show proper Pentious declared cherri a rival and picked fights with her, then became an offputting simp when they hung out at the club. She even tually warmed up to him in the following episodes while he kept backtracking. Then we got the battle the big damn kiss and then his death and redemption to which season 2 shows cherri had feelings for him which ends in a long distance relationship.

Is this love triangle between cherrisnake and niffty a new bug-Lute Crack theory?