I haven't made a thread since the purge a few months ago. About me. >natural stone expert>specializing in restoration/repair>many years as a slab installer>many years as a business owner >brief but intense fabrication experience Topics?>stone selection, ie. Differences between granites, marbles etc.>artificial stone, including modern porcelain slabs, quartz etc. >application of stone indoor, outdoor etc. >products related to stone, such as sealers, epoxies, silicone and waterproofing>experience working in higher end sector, working in finished homes vs. new developments etc.>business advice for small scale self operated company
>>2936692I have shitty chipboard counters in my kitchen and I want to replace them with stone. I don't really care about natural vs cultured or whatever, I just want something that looks good and is very durable. I'll need a lighter color, but not white. Light grey, tannish, etc.What should I keep in mind as I look for options and try to choose a contractor to do the work?
>>2936698>no budget A natural quartzite or granite countertops of specific varieties would look beautiful and be almost maintenance free. For example, a dull or leathered granite called antique brown would be at the cheaper end. At the expensive end, but lighter in color, natural quartzite called Taj Mahal would be great. Avoid marble, limestone and ligher toned granite if you really want a permanent solution. >cheap Vicostone is my favorite of the artificial "quartz" type stones. A little more than Caesarstone but is a little more durable and had a finer grain to the finish.>pros and cons of natural vs. Artificial If you are a clean adult and don't have kids, either of the above suggestions holds up. If however you plan to really use the kitchen and cut, drag or hit the countertop with things, note that the artificial stuff is very difficult to repair properly when compared to the natural stuff. You may even have a hard time finding someone who us willing to touch fake material locally.
>>2936692sup stonework bro i've lurked in your threads before any advice on drilling a single hole into natural stone (haven't picked one out yet) to use as a base for an antique iron flower vase? i'd like some of the "stem" to remain visible so the hole would be about an inch in diameter to accomodate thisi have basic diy powertools - corded drill etc
>>2936727Is his going to be outside or inside? If outside, probably want to go with granite and make the hole a good 5% bigger than it needs to be and put a flexible adhesive to mount it. Also make sure the iron is painted or the rust expanding will split the rock. >what to useAgain depends, Use a core bit, use it wet and go extremely slowly, always pulling the bit out and dipping it in water. Don't use oil.
>>2936753inside use only i might use a clear sealer instead of paint for rust mitigationcan i get a core bit for a standard 5.5 amp 3/8 drill like pic rel
>>2936711Not that guy but my sister is replacing her countertop and she also wants something light-colored (probably white).She can't afford the good stuff though so I'm wondering how long would cheap artificial stone last with moderate use.
>>2936757Caesarstone is very cost effective, budget friendly and as long as she is using very good cutting boards for cutting and trivets for hot pots and pans, she will be fine. One recommendation I would always make is to tell the fabricator to knock the edging back a little, the tiny chamfer/sharp edge leads to lots of chips. >>2936754I'm not sure, my suppliers usually carry bits for variable speed grinders. Another option is simply bringing the rock to your local countertop shop and giving them $50 to drill the hole
Thoughts on solid surface?
>>2936775>your local countertop shopyeah i might just do that core bits seem to be about $50+ and desu i'll use it once thanks man
>>2936692This is slightly beyond the topics you listed, but I have two young sons who like rocks and doing stuff. Do you have any fun ideas for literal "babbys first stoneworking projects" beyond a rock tumbler? I have very found memories of my dad letting me "help" in his carpentry projects, would love to show them how to make something pretty/useful with the rocks they find or bought for landscaping. Even if the specific skills don't translate to other walks of life knowing you can do projects like that gives confidence for trying other projects.
>>2937600It will depend on what tools you have. On the cheap side, sandpaper + color enhancing sealer + wax and have them Polish the rocks they find. Focused and meditative. On the more expensive side, and something I did as a kid, cut stone tiles to shapes on a water saw, (smooth non segmented blade for safety) and then polishing the shapes on a flat surface with sandpaper taped down. I had a collection of caf shapes and enjoyed doing it, although it was the 90s and no fortnight.
>>2936692Good to see you stonebro. Any cool projects lately?Also can you post the carved stone bowl pic again?
>>2937790>any cool projectsHey Anon, yes, finished two properties this year around 120 million and 50 million in value, lots of stone, waterjet work, backlighting, stone cabinetry etc. I can't post photos unfortunately. >stone bowl I don't remember what I posted but I guess either something like picrel or maybe a more fancy one where it's a half sphere.
>>2936692Hi OPCan you tell me what kind of stone this is?It is in my balcony in my flat and I may have to replace some of it as it is getting too deteriorated in some places. Unfortunately I have no idea where to buy the same or similar stone. I need to know the name so I can start looking
>>2938988looks like limestone, if you wet it, it will be easier to tell. it may be eramosa.
Here are my stones
>>2939049Cool collection anon, which is your favorite?
>>2939062I'm quite partial to the rutile from Ambatofinandrahana in Madagascar, it's the second one from the bottom in the center. It was originally an ilmenite/hematite crystal that psuedomorphed to a complex rutile cluster. And the vanadinite on manganese oxide right above it, from Taouz in Morocco. There are four of them in the case but that one is very good and extremely rare. The red hexagonal barrel-shaped crystals. I reorganized it since I took that photo to include more from Mibladen, which are more common, but very fine and lustrous.
I got drunk 2 years ago and bought a retarded $2400 marble sink (yeah) and it has been sitting in my livingroom ever since. It's a million pounds and there's no good way to install it. It's meant to be floating and the contractors around here don't know want to touch it. It's my biggest financial fuckup in life thus far and it just laughs at me every day
>>2939073Lol nerd. I do remember when I first started this job all those years ago, finding any geometric shape naturally occuring in a floor or countertop was thrilling. Of course, shells and fossils are fun too. >>2939080Yeah I haven't forgotten, just sell it on Craigslist and take the bruise.
>>2936692Why would anyone waste all that money and add all that weight to their homes static load when they could just use a pack of $25 peel and stick tiles instead?Sorry but your entire profession has been rendered obsolete.
>>2939092>your picrelPretty sure that is porcelain, and it has become quite nice, last year I installed 10.5X5.5 foot porcelain slabs and it looked amazing >porcelain consIt scratches pretty badly if ever exposed to outside grit, usually granite dust, this cannot be fixed. It also can etch if exposed to strong acids, also can't be fixed. Natural stone can be almost infinitely fixed.>peel and stick It looks like shit, really really nasty, you also cant use it anywhere there is water.>marble and natural stone for the massesUltimately, average Joe should stop at quartz and porcelain, anything beyond that is too expensive and needs maintenance most people can't afford >north american vs european attitudeIn north america, everyone wants their marble to look as nice as the day they bought it, which is insane and keeps me busy. I have some clients who I turn down and tell them to call me in 6 months or so, it's just insane. In Europe stone ages, patinas and changes and this is okay and accepted. Maybe once every twenty years someone will go for a massive restoration
>>2939112Nope search temu for 'marble peel and stick' and you'll find pic-rel. The Chinese are good at goosing images for sex appeal so I'm sure it doesn't look quite as good irl but probably good enough.Ever visited The Basilica in DC? They have some weird ass green and pink marble in the lower floors.
>>2939119>peel and stick Seeing it in real life, absolutely looks and feels like plastic, but maybe average people can't tell. Im not against plastic panels, formed foam panelling etc, china does these things well, but imitation wood or stone is gross. >basilica DCI've travelled through most of central america, Europe and eastern US. DC has some wild exterior limestone structures, very old world, mexican cathedrals are also very nice and some are even on par with Europe. Nothing tops the Vatican for stone work IMO, just stunning quality of marble, both the floors/arches/structures and the sculptures.
>>2936692how do I approach a stone shop and ask for dust and silt from the rope saw? is this something a stone shop usually sells, gives out, or will I be a pest asking for it? I want to get somewhere around a ton.my gut feeling is that they sell it for reclamation.
>>2939136I would avoid any shop that does countertops because they use water, you want a shop that does large volumes of dry cutting, look for a limestone quarry or exterior stone supplier. I regularly grab buckets of limestone dust from a supplier I have no affiliation with (meaning I'm acting like a normal guy, not a contractor). I amend my soil with it, damn good tomatoes.
I recently finished another bridge.
>>2939404Other side.
>>2939405All the soil up on rocky top too hard to grown corn by far. So I made a raised garden bed for the missus with stone.
Out of rocks for now so time to break some more.
>>2936692I took your advice about everything from last time and ended up ordering black galaxy granite countertops. couldn't be happier. thank you stone anon. I have learned a lot from your past two threads about stones and the industry too.
>>2937860It was the ancient small stone bowl that was carved to have a big overhanging lip folded in
>>2939404do you live on a big piece of land or something? >>2939425cant go wrong with black granite. besides getting the odd chip, it should last for ages>>2939453picrel
>>2939455Thanks!
>>2939405Looks awesome man.>>2936692Hey stoneanon what do you think about working with natural quartz? My girlfriend lives in an area with quite a bit of it and we have a couple of 90lb chunks of it. Right now one is just sort of a garden decoration but I was thinking about buying some hand tools and doing some shaping or splitting idk.
How do you cope with the stress? Whenever I have to work with a new material/technique for some rich dickhead (or worse a no longer lower middle class slightly rich dickhead) I can't sleep and feel like shit
>>2939459>natural quartz I think it's a pain in the ass, a massive one. Actual natural quartzite is hard as hell but brittle and depending on the variety very difficult to sculpt or shape without very specialized tools. The closer in hardness you get to the tool you are using, the more heat you generate, the more expensive the tool and the shorter its lifespan. Example, the core bits we use to cut sink holes can do maybe 50 marble countertops without issue, some quartzite you can do 1-2 holes before the carbide or diamond is simply gone. Splitting is okay I guess, my experience is limited, but quartzite tends to have larger chunks as opposed to granites which are finer grained. When splitting a stone with large chunks of varied hardness, I would suspect it won't be as clean as with a granite.>>2939462>stressMeditation for one. I try daily and have been for many years. Out of meditation comes that pause button, and with that a moment to see that most of the ideas crowding my brain aren't actually that important. Stress can lead to mistakes, physically, lots of breathing and checking in with myself to not spiral. Practically, knowing your own abilities and balancing focused or high risk tasks vs. Low risk labourous tasks against your energy and focus level reduces the chances of a mistake. Of course, mistakes will happen, but that's okay, as long as I wasnt negligent. With new material sometimes you actually have to just jump in based on the level of risk, if failure = bankrupt, turn down the job. If failure= working for free and walking away, go for it. Also, never let a client push you into doing something stupid, dangerous or overtly risky. I see a lot of people fall over someone else's dumb idea or pressure from a schedule. What's the point of being self employed if you can't tell someone to kindly fuck off. I often grab scraps of new material from a shop and play in my garage before I start a new job, if this is possible for your trade, do that too.
>>2939080> marble sinkYou can dissolve it in vinegar
>>2939547Ideally it'll get installed somehow but if not I'd rather go full hillbilly dynamite
>>2936692Always wanted to do structural stone construction. When I retire I want to buy some land I can quarry just to build a village out of the stone. Maybe I can side step all the building and zoning and engineering bullshit, if I call it art instead of construction.
>>2939080>$2400>my biggest financial fuckup in life thus farlucky
>>2939666Yeah honestly I've done alright vs some degen gamblers I know. But since I'll either need to pay to have the sink floated (ripping up walls), a custom cabinet built to support it (it's heavy), or destroy it and have to get a totally different vanity...it's gonna increase pretty much no matter what
>>2939010>eramosaThanks, but I googled eramosa and it doesn't seem to be it.Does this picture help? It is wet now
>>2939666Checked I lost more on car deals before I was 16 than that kek
>>2939738no idea anon, I am pretty sure it is limestone, you can confirm if its in the calcite vs. granite family by putting a drop of vinegar in a hard to see spot, basically if it is limestone/marble that vinegar will eat into it/bubble/etch
>>2939455I've got a little over 5 acres. Between that and the machine shop it's enough to keep me busy.>>2939459Thanks!
>>2939852Stone boat.This picture is from last month but I recently added wheels to the front in the hope it won't entirely obliterate my yard every time I use it. The next few weekends are busy but will post updates if the thread is still up.
>>2939852>>2939855I'm very jealous. Currently renovating my house in the burbs to buy a piece of land, 2-5 acres is the aim. Unfortunately land has tripled in the last few years... I like your rock sled. If you don't mind me asking, do you work?
>>2939860Good luck, I ended up lurking Zillow for almost a year before finding a good plot of land. That was about 5 or 6 years ago now towards the start of Covid. But there's not a lot of land to go around in southern New England.Yes, I'm employed as a metallurgist.
>>2936692Do you have any experience with massive pre-cut stone construction? 1000-2000 lbs blocks of travertine/marble/granite/sandstone used as structural elements?Any tips?
Hi OP. I want to build a work table for fine mechanical work. Been looking at granite and quartz resin counter tops. But Im unsure of the flatness. How flat could and should I expect a countertop to be over a 1 meter distance? I don't think would need or expect DIN 876 levels of flatness. But it would be nice to be within 0.1-0.2mm across a meter. Is that possible to expect?
>>2936692I'll be building a house in a few years. I want to set near-cyclopean foundations and erect stone constructs that will be in place for 1000+ years. Is this feasible for a non-millionaire man in Pennsylvania who can wrangle 1-12 borderline autistic friends at a time and acquire some small-scale heavy equipment? What region would you choose for this and how would you pull it off? I know some people who run a big limestone quarry and I've thought about working there for a few months to get a feel for what they do. I assume limestone is too soft for what I want but maybe I'm wrong.
If I can't afford quartz should I go for sintered stone?
I have a background in crystallography/material science but not necessarily minerals. I am interested if you can describe why and how natural stone can be "fixed" but artificial cannot or is difficult to fix. First can you define natural vs articial stone, and what do you mean by fix/repair in this context. Do you know the specific mechanisms etc or can you point me to some source where I can learn? Thanks
>>2936692Do you believe the numerous state capitol buildings could be made out of massive, perfectly-cut marble/limestone with the hammer/chisel tools available in the early 1800s?
>>2942235If you want something that lasts as long as these stupid captcha timers, granite is the way to go.
Sorry for bailing on the thread friends, been busy busy>>2940264>looking for landIt's been a real journey looking for the perfect place, and even the less than perfect, been outbid on my "dream" property twice now. The market is cooling and I'm primed. >metallurgistA client of mine is a metallurgist in the automotive industry, let me take his old alfaromeo out for a spin, was fun. >>2941921>experience building the pyramids? every... single... threadjokes aside, its going to be region specific, but granite is usually going to be the answer, even over quartzite. >>2942197>granite and quartz resin tops over 1 meterIt's impossible to guess because the storage and climate around the slab, not to mention the type of slab will play a huge role. You could in theory make a table with adjustable pins every few inches and steam a slab of man made quartz into a very flat position, but from the factory - not so much. I've seen slabs bow and bend by a huge amount over distances as short as 2 feet. The thicker the better always, slabs are usually 3/4 inch, sometimes they get supply of 2 inches or more, thats what i'd be looking at, and granite, not quartz (at that thickness)>>2942235I'd build in the north east directly on the granite shield left bare by the ice age. Again, granite over any other material would last the longest>>2942647>quartz vs sintered stoneIn my neck of the woods we only really use natural stone or quartz, not sure what the difference would be between sintered stone and man made quartz. Man made quartz isnt that expensive. If I had to pick a brand in my area, it would be vico-stone over caesarstone or kstone and the rest of them.
>>2942750>why and how natural stone can be "fixed" but artificial cannot or is difficult to fix. The surface of a natural stone slab is usually sanded flat with a disc of sorts then polished either mechanically or chemically, but the processes can be replicated on site with various simple or complex techniques. Man made materials, such as caesarstone are not finished the same way, some are heated, some are pressed in a vaccuum of sorts and the reflectivity is not achieved through techniques we can replicate on site. Sure you can polish an edge when making a countertop, but fixing damage and matching the reflection in the middle of an island counter is basically impossible. BUT, it doesnt mean you cant polish the entire slab on site using the traditional method, but, it comes at a cost for labor and of course you potentially change the way it looks or behaves in the long run depending on the technique used. For example, a polishing compound used in glazing may be prone to etching later, or the polish may be much shinier than original and show wear, fingerprints, scratches more than the "grainy" finish you get from the factory. >>2942765We tend to underestimate our ancestors, really though I can't say. I've been to these buildings, and it is very impressive, but I'm not convinced we had some tartarian giants or wtv building them, humans are pretty amazing. >>2942765this.
We need to invade mexico to get the soul crystal mine. Lots of souls need trapping.
>>2943281You are an absolute (noguns) retard if you think this is Mexico. Stonebro, what is a good chemical adhesive for stone?
>>2943296>good chemical adhesiveWhat is the application? Stone to stone? Interior/Exterior? Shower/Steam? What material. For example, chrome brand epoxy is a great adhesive, use it with stone and you are set. Use it with quartz and expose the quartz to steam and you are in trouble.
>>2943157I don't frequent this place so I don't know what "every single thread" is referring to. Granite is too "cold" and as this is planned to be an non-covered wall, I would prefer limestone. I am uncertain as to its lasting nature though. Some limestone lasts hundreds of years and other types look like swiss cheese in 50 years.The main issue however is cutting it into actual straight surface blocks. Any ideas?
>>2943988Clarify what you mean by cutting into straight surface blocks. >on the topic of stone typesWith igneous material, stuff that has melted and stirred under pressure before reforming - you will have an easier time gauging it's strength. With limestone, which is typically considered a sedimentary stone (layers of stuff not melted, but pressed into itself and turned hard by time and pressure) - you will find large voids of weaker and stronger bonds or various mineral soups pooled together, these are the weak points. You will also find empty voids in the material, large and small - where even if the solid parts are very hard and durable, the large voids write it off as a stable material (travertine is a good example). The above isn't always true of course, indiana limestone, which is used all over for structures, is very strong and very consistent compared to other families of limestone. ultimately, its going to come down to a case by case basis when dealing with most limestone and marble, where granite is typically reliably strong. >on why things turn to swiss cheeseIf you have a porous material and it's subjected to freeze thaw, its going to shatter, water trumps all. Limestone will flake, slate will separate, marble will efflorece (is that a word?) and spald, granite will crack etc. etc. If you are exposing it to acids, acid rain etc, steer clear of the limestone and marble families.
>>2943994>efflorece (is that a word?)almost (I didn't know, I looked it up)https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/effloresce
>>2943281
>>2943994I mean cutting quarry blocks into 2 ton blocks (longer lengthwise) and using them as the sole load bearing elements (ground floor building).I am aware of the large variability in limestone consistency and nature. I also have some experience with marble (and I mean all of Greece and Italy is covered with millenia old structures), but as I said since this is intended to be an uncovered/unpainted structure, I would prefer a bright and nice color.Marble could work I guess, but the one we get here is such a dull hue.Thank you for the new word. It has been a few years since I learned a word I did not know.
whats the overlap between glass working workshop tools and stone ones?
>>2944169You need a big ass saw if working with marble, or explosives and very large core bits and the machinery to use those bits while pumping water down the pipe.>>2944268Having spent time in a custom window shop and a shower glass manufacturer, I'd say the only shared tool is the overhead crane assembly to move what amounts to heavy and fragile sheets if material. Glass shops are much cleaner and precise environments in comparison. Remember, ain't nobody working the surface of tempered material, if it's wrong you order it again.Story. We had a shipment of 14 foot glass for a job, import from Europe since apparently 12 feet is the max in north america. Dumbass tried to ship it himself to save money and broke it all lmao. Cost was likely in the six digits.
>>2944339I rather meant the kind of glass workshop you use for melted, stack laminated or thick mold blown glass rather than working with glass panes.
>>2944428I don't have enough experience to comment. A marble shop generally has a series of stations for edge fabrication and other hand work, imagine a few large tables. Several table saws to cut slabs and a few resurfacing tables with a grinding disk of sorts for resurfacing slabs to whatever finish may be needed. Beyond that, there may be a waterjet, slab storage and an area for photography of slabs. All this is sitting under large crane arms to move slabs around. I can't imagine a glass smelting or shaping facility would be anywhere close to this- in my totally uneducated opinion
I finally got a chance to try out my upgraded stone sled. The bottom of the sled still takes much more of the load than the wheels, but the wheels take enough load that it no longer obliterates my yard when I drag it. Also still flush with the ground so easy to roll rocks onto it.
>>2944722very clever. Still jealous, I looked at a home on 12 acres today, calling the township to confirm it's protection designation, the lot is almost entirely trees. If only 2 acres was clear I would buy. Also in love with the house.
Thoughts on masonry heaters?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonry_heaterhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_stove
>>2936692>>2944764Can any stone be used to make a masonry heater or are refractory bricks absolutely necessary for the center/core of the heater?If it's necessary, then how did poor Russian peasants (not to mention other Europeans) get their refractory firebricks? Shit is expensive.
>>2944765I don't know about Russia, but in the hinterlands out here it was pretty common to just pull down the chimney every decade or two and rebuild it. They often weren't even attached to the house in any way. Specifically, if there was a creosote fire the only want to save the house was to pull the chimney down. So, if the bricks went to shit on you it often wasn't that big of a deal. We're taking like 200 years ago though, before fire departments were really a thing.
>>2944772I see. Thank you.Another question I have about masonry heaters is whether it is possible to have BOTH an oven AND a cooktop in a single heater.All the pictures I've seen, it's either one or the other, never both. If there are both, they're powered by different stoves/fires.Oven:https://i.pinimg.com/originals/97/29/9a/97299af19e8bb5ef9679b4477af22671.jpgOven and cooktop (different fires):https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/e1/48/eae1483469b555edf5efaceab35919e7.jpg
>>2944722That is some wizard engineerin' right there.Whatall did you use for an axle?
>>29447763/4" steel rod. I happened to be in the right place at the right time when a die-maker decided to retire. He sold me a Bridgeport, lathe, and surface grinder for $2500 and said I could have all of his steel for free.
>>2939404how is the wood fixed in place? did you mortar the pillars?
>>2939049This rocks.
