I’m looking to get started with welding and would appreciate some guidance. I don’t know much yet, so if someone could explain the basics like the differences between MIG and TIG and suggest where a beginner should start.My plan is to pick up an inexpensive welder from Harbor Freight and look for used accessories on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist to get going.As for power, my garage has a 30amp line with a 20amp rated outlet, as well as a 240V 40amp dryer outlet on the shared wall. The house has a 200 amp main breaker, with room to upgrade to 300 amps if needed.I plan to begin with a 120V welder and upgrade later as I gain more experience. My initial projects will include basic automotive work, welding exhausts, patching rusted body panels, frame rails, square tubing, and brackets. I don’t plan to work with stainless steel or aluminum at this for now.Thanks
>>2956955TIG is more for precise/nice work, MIG is more fast. For automotive repair it's usually MIG unless you want to make bling instagram welds. But being able to do TIG is an order of magnitude more useful and massively broadens the scope of what you have the capability to do.But MIG is easy. So maybe start with a combo MIG/stick welder, hell I've seen cheap TIG-MIG-stick inverter machines even, as long as you don't want AC (for aluminium) and pulse (for memes).>20A 120V welderThat's gonna be pretty sucky, but such is life for burgers.
MIG is automated feeding of wireTIG is hand feeding the wireBoth use welding gas. TIG is usually 100% argon, MIG is a mix of argon and CO2 (75% argon, 25% CO2)MIG you can learn within 1 hr or less. You basically push the button, then it automatically arcs. TIG you have to control both hands, and the pedal (or slider on the torch).MIG and TIG can do sheet metal. TIG is better overall for variety, but MIG is good for production style repeatedlyTIG machines can be pricey. TIG is pricey. TIG takes a while to learn.
>>2956955>I plan to begin with a 120V welderDon't, just get a 220V welder and save your grief
>>2956955>inexpensive welder from Harbor Freight and look for used accessories on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist to get going.Look for the 220V multi-process machines, either the Vulcan or Titanium from HF. See if you can find a barely used one on facebook in your area. Mig is generally what you're going to want as a noob. I love me some stick welding, but I'll admit it's not for everyone.
>>2956979This. MIG is extremely easy to learn, the machine does almost everything for you. It feeds the filler material, all you do is pull the trigger (on/off) and move it around. TIG is the opposite end of the spectrum as you have to do three things simultaneously: move the torch, move the filler rod, and control the power of the torch (foot pedal or finger knob/slider on the torch). There's also more opportunities for fuckups: you don't want to touch the torch to the workpiece, or the filler rod. But, because you have so much more control with TIG you can use it for tricky welds, extremely thin materials, etc.Stick welding is in the middle in terms of difficulty. It's harder to learn than MIG but is simpler than TIG. Its advantage is power, it is good if you need to weld thicker steel, and also for field repairs, many stick welding rods have very aggressive flux that will weld through dirt, paint, rust, etc. The well-known "6011" stick-welding electrodes are often called "Farmer's Rod" because of this.>>2957116This. And don't waste your time with flux-core MIG either.
>>2956955MIG is the standard for body & muffler shops doing everyday work.TIG is the standard for high-end race car custom exhaust, intercooler plumbing, custom intake manifolds, tube chassis, and so on.
>>2956955>WTF is that guy doing to that poor pipe? Just laying down scabs for the camera?
Thank you for the info.Can I get some recommendations on a MIG welder to start with? are those HF sub $200 chicago electric welders any good just to get going? it shows as being 240v only. or should I aim for the ~$500 Titanium one? it says its 120/240I'll probably get one for black friday or another time when they have a 15% off coupon.also, is HF a good choice, or are there amazon versions that are a better deal?How about protective gear? what type of helmet should I look for?
>>2958237You may be able to get something cheaper on Amazon, but at least with Harbor Freight there is a physical storefront where you can go and exchange shit if it breaks and they have to have at least the slightest bit of accountability. I'd splurge on the $500 titanium one if I were you. Get yourself the cheapo blue and black flame auto-dark welding helmet from HF too. I have done a shit-ton of welding and they are all I have ever used.
about 8 years ago i picked up a 50 dollar used flux core machinei traded a trailer i got for free for a lincoln sp 135+ Its done everything I needed to. Honestly, I get people shitting all over fcaw for not being the best, but if as a casual, I can jack a broken leaf spring into place, barely clean anything and have it hold for years while I overload the heck out of the trailer, it does have its place.Realistically, most randos have no need to ever stick anything > 1/4" together. thats thicker than truck and trailer frames. No bottle, no prep, ugly welds, pure function, flux core has its place.do you want to be a welder or to be able to weld? I have no ego in it, I just need it to work, and being able to weld does take you to the next level. welding nuts on broken bolts, shackles back onto trailers, adding tie downs on everything by just welding eye bolts to ithate away losers. one guy saying 110v flux core is easy and just works. dont overthink it. A lot more vehicles than just semi cabs can tow.
>>2958237auto darkening helmet... one with a commonly available battery, think aaa not button battery. cheap as hell gloves to start. tractor supply used to have a 3 pack of 2 sets of welding gloves and a set of work gloves that literally still smelled like dead animal for 9.99 cant beat that.
>>2956955 (OP) #A flux core welder may work well for you. This is a welding machine intened for beginners. I bought an easy flux 125 from harbor freight to weld my mower deck back together.. I made a few practice beads and spare metal and then it worked fine to fix my mower deck. the learning curve of it is really not bad. The easy flux 125 can be used with two different flux core wire gauges. The thinner gauge wire may be useful for thinner gauge such as sheet metal. it has a spec sheet on the machine letting you know what gauges of metal can be welded with it.For thin mild steel metals its quite good and you don't really need pro welder skills to operate it..The downsides of the machine is that its power is limited. I heard people say it doesn't have the best penetration for welding together thicker steel.. its really not an issue if your primarly welding thinner steel. Pic/rel is my shitty but functional welds for my mower deck repair.
Moar picture. I was all happy with myself after this so I got drunk on miller lites but lately I'm cutting way back on alchol consumption .
You see. You clamp your test peice down in a vise then smash it with a sledge hammer. If it doesn't breal off that means its welded. I actually had to pay about $12 to buy that metal bar from lowes jist to practice on which is slightly retarded but it worked for my purposes.Also watch this video about not dying. https://youtu.be/2hAJJky4KAQ?si=WeeFPLzskTLUKepwHe points out a few useful thimgs to know about such as the dangers associated with wleding galvanized metal.Ok that's all the information I feel entitled to talk about concerimg this stuff. I'm very much novice but you can fix stuff with one of these flux core welders
>>2958972Alcohol and flux core welder are not the best options neither separately nor as a combination but what can I say if it works it works.
>>2958974 #I wasnt getting drunk until after I finished welding though. Drinking while welding would be foolish.Why isnt a flux core welder the best choice? it seemed to be the best choice at the time for me. It was still cheaper than buying a new mower. Later I bought some splatter spray sobthat hopefully I can avoid getting little BBs stuck to my work.
based on the info in the OP i would get a TIG machineFor this reason i will also recommend you invest in a PAPR style helmet setup down the line. If they are too expensive, get some autodarkening hood (the best I used was linconln viking 3350) and a 3m gas mask with pancake filters. the only real use case for a mig machine is high productivity, when you have to do a lot of welds a day in quick succession, or you weld long beads on thick metal. the machines are huge and a pain in the ass to move around a shop, let a lone load a van or a truck and weld outside. smoke and dust everywhere. for smaller stuff mig is not essential and TIG is much cleaner, and more fun to learn and work with. no spatter or dust (other than grinding of course). people overexaggerate the learning curve of tig, and underexxagerate the mig curve, nowadays there is a huge amount of learning material on youtube and even ai chatbots
>>2958974Im the first flux core guyi welded a leaf spring mount on a dual axle dump trailer, and welded a diff with the lincoln sp (precursor to the weldpaks)Theyll weld 1/4 inch. Unless you are doing art, a bridge, or maybe working on a plow or something the whole I need the power to weld 3/8ths angle all day is retarded. additionally, to someone who doesnt really know what they are doing, but just needs to get a thing and start, a beer or two to get out of your head trying something new doesnt hurt, depending on your drinking habits. Everyone wants to lay a perfect bead, doesnt, but has to keep going. i wonder what learning to weld for other people was like... especially in a classroom. Like, you learn what fails when it fails... you learn what doesnt when it doesnt... so few people weld engine mounts or whatever, so many say you gotta have 240 to weld. its such shit. 120 at 30 amps isnt all the power in the world, but its plenty for an amateur everyone and their brother says dont buy a 120 machine, youll outgrow it so fast youll waste your money
>>2959172>everyone and their brother says dont buy a 120 machine, youll outgrow it so fast youll waste your moneyI think they're wrong though. Having the ability to weld 1/4" on a little 120v machine provides plenty of opportunities to fix stuff.
>>2959242yeah, thats my point. many beginners/interested are pushed are pushed away from 120 machines for this hypothetical that doesnt exist. most of us are not dealing with manure spreaders and the like. 120 buzzboz is cheap as hell and will do more than most need
>>2959325>most of us are not dealing with manure spreaders and the likeWat? How am I gonna fishplate/gusset my manure spreader frame and build new mounts for the box with a 120v welder???
>>2959414>How am I gonna fishplate/gusset my manure spreader frame and build new mounts for the box with a 120v welder???my little esab rogue 180 will burn 5p red rod on 120v but its the exception. it runs 3/32 excalibur @75a without tripping a 15a breaker if youre careful not to long arc
>>2959414do you advise people to not buy 120 volt welders because you do work like this?yeah, fuckwit, im talking about youa shitty flux core machine costs the same as an impact driver. you do nice work, but welders gatekeep their shit so hard you are straight not to be trusted. when i got real hack about fishplating, i read you should draw the end of the weld beyond the point of the plate to not make a line the stressed metal could break on.In your picture, you dont. why not? just cuase metal was thick enough
>>2959420cool you suck dick, everyone should own a flux core machine, you're right
>>2959423>implying i dont run innershield el trailblazer y 12vs con .045 nr212 go brrrrrinb4>no you cant weld load bearing shit with innershield
>>2959422>do you advise people to not buy 120 volt welders because you do work like this?Son I couldn't give any less of a fuck what you spend your money on. All I know is if I buy something I'm going to get the biggest/best I can with the money I have so I don't outgrow it immediately. Doesn't matter if it's a cordless impact, welder, excavator, or a shop... It never fails you always wish everything had a bit more lift capacity, swing capacity, or amperage capacity when you really need it most. >>2959422>when i got real hack about fishplating, i read you should draw the end of the weld beyond the point of the plate to not make a line the stressed metal could break on.>In your picture, you dont. why not? just cuase metal was thick enoughYeah you can do that and it is advisable at times. I see it mainly when welding something to thin walled square tubing. I just went with a ridiculously oversized fish plate with a rounded point and giant plug welds instead. Frame was cracking at the top where the p.o. straight up welded the manure box to the frame... So it was obvious why the crack started. I completely re-vamped the entire mount system and added those square tubes lengthwise, added spring mounts up front for flex, and oak boards under them to spread the load over a much larger area of the frame. Rear mounts were re-done to a giant ass bolt so it can pivot some... So far I've loaded it to the gills with 16,000lbs of shit and it's held up bouncing across my furrows.
>>2959414Well, if you need to weld thicker gauge metal you shpuld probably buy the appropriate machine for that. All that I needed to fix was a little yard tractor. And if the meed arises qhere I meed tk weld thicker than 1/4" (which will be never) then ill biy a bigger welder.
>>2959424As the guy who pointed out a 120 machine will do a spring mount to frame on a 7k dump trailer ( i didnt get that specific about it earlier ) the end of this thread exactly proves the point.i didnt imply flux core cant do structurala 7k dump trailer is something most people wouldnt touch anyway; I think theres a reasonable argument I shouldnt have... but i did and it workedYou are unique in both being a giant twat and hauling 8 tons of shit around. NO ONE else is doing that shit saying "what welder should I buy?" i say it takes more strength to to just enough than too much, and usually go for my smaller corded impact, because itll sit and rattle something for 30 seconds then heat will break it loose where the big one will just rip the head off.yeah, you could do that guys mower deck with 6010, but its definitely not neededi started filling holes on mower decks too.
>>2959483>You are unique in both being a giant twat and hauling 8 tons of shit around. NO ONE else is doing that shit saying "what welder should I buy?"I'm the guy with the manure spreader, but NOT the anon you quoted above running innershield. That is another anon that threw a post or two in there between mine. I have used gasless mig exactly once in my life because I bought a used Vulcan omni-pro that had a spool in there and wanted to try it out. I may do some outside migging in the breeze with it someday since I already have a small roll now, but will probably set it up with a CO2 tank and run gas from now on. All of my real shitty stuff gets stick welded.
>>2958617>Realistically, most randos have no need to ever stick anything > 1/4" together. thats thicker than truck and trailer frames.This is something that really bugs me about the welding class I'm taking right now. It's mandatory for auto tech and machining students (I'm the latter) but it's totally focused on heavy-duty structural welding bullshit, and apparently is going to become even moreso next year. (Right now it's half stick and half MIG, and they're switching to a full semester of stick.) It's insane to me because the auto students in particular will only ever do MIG or maybe TIG if they have to weld on the job and everything they do is gonna be on light gauges, so making them take a whole class of shit they'll never use while denying them experience with stuff that might be relevant is retarded.
i dont understand getting hung up about what welder or process you should lock into. each had its place and does something another wont. and welders are cheap these days. i have at least 10 including duplicate baby migs and stick boxes which have become my favorite for mobile work if i can find a plug so i dont have to listen to the engine drive scream all day. but i will say once you go big amperage its hard to go back weak penetration
Not OP, but no reason to kill another thread>Want to get into welding >Have some 3mm black steel square tube project>Master S400 Inverter 400V/400A is available for 28€ a weekend>Get rods>Get helmet and gloves>Do some training welds till i get the hang of it>Great successAnything i'm missing? Is there any reason not to get an automatic view helmet, or should one definitely look a bit for a passive one?MIG isn't really an option for me as i don't have options to store gas cans right now and my welding demand over the last few years was probably like three times at a "would be neat" level. In general i find it a bit weird that this hole activity for a newbie is categorised in>100 bucks lego>800+ bucks and be ready to be questioned about your qualifications>unobtainium lasers
>>2959529I want to weld the jack wheel the tongue of my pop up trailer. Do I need to worry about heat treat?
>>2959846>I want to weld the jack wheel the tongue of my pop up trailer. Do I need to worry about heat treat?I wouldn't worry about it unless you burn through a ton or something stupid like that.
>>2959529Mechanics often end up making and modding equipment etc much thicker than sheet metal when outfitting our shops, repairing and modding truck beds, trailers, heavy equipment etc. Get the most out of those courses you can. You might score a better job than fixing customer shitboxes.Everyone should know how to work on vehicles because that saves mad money over the course of your life and auto mechanic skills are foundational to working on other machinery.My instructor made nice money welding farm equipment and shortening or lengthening used trucks farmers buy to mod for their use. The auto mechanic field is losing techs in droves (I thank the successful mechanics who warned me to learn the skills but never make it a career). Automotive skills translate into many other, better jobs. I've wrenched since before electronic ignitions were standard and should have taken a structural/pipe course earlier in life. Learn all you can and assume nothing.
>>2959841>MIG isn't really an option for me as i don't have options to store gas cans right nowSmall "kegerator" size and medium size CO2 cylinders are easy to store and in emergency you can even use those vapor-withdrawal cylinders as extinguishers by holding them upside down. Just keep the cylinder clean and you can safely store them as you would a fire extinguisher. I often leave mine next to my extinguishers when not using CO2.CO2 stores as liquid under pressure so a cylinder holds much more than argon or MIG mix. I buy used cylinders then expend contents then exchang them at the local welding gas supplier.I also use my CO2 cylinders for quick tire inflation/bead seating. Check out how off-roaders use "power tanks". Pic shows a fixed pressure regulator with two CO2 crush washers zip tied to avoid loss. Brass chuck is holding a tire inflator but can feed whatever you like. For CO2 MIG use if your MIG gas regulator doesn't come with a CO2 adapter they're about 20 bucks.
>>2959852Your trailer is not heat treated. It's just ordinary carbon steel.
>>2959841Yeah nah, do not rent a stick welder for a weekend when you have zero experience for a one-off project. Makes no sense.Buy a cheap welder, seriously. You can get one for 100 bucks or less and you won't be able to tell the difference.The upside is you can practice a lot with it, which you need if you're new.Fuck I would buy a 40$ aliexpress inverter before I rent something for 28 bucks a weekend.You can get old transformers for 20 bucks on craigslist/FB marketplace/whatever the fuck ppl use in your area and those are indestructible.A good inverter is nicer than a transformer but transformers work just fine desu.There's no point in a non-automatic helmet and even a 20 bucks automatic helmet makes welding WAY easier. 100% get one.Get thin rods, 3mm is not very thick, I would use 2mm rods because that's the thinnest I have.Well I would use TIG actually but TIG is .. well yeah it's about 800 bucks for a setup. And while TIG is awesome there's a lot to learn and a lot more practice required than stick desu.
>>2962016No, the problem is rather regulations around the house. Our keeper's rather strict with shit around the basement, but the apartment is too good to fuck it up for such shenanigans.>>2962022Thanks for the advice, but you're too late. I welded a plate up and down till i got the hang out of it. The machine was basically idiot proof, i couldn't even force infamous sticking even when i tried to. Used 2.5mm E6013 as recommended by basically everyone. All joints were harder than i could rip open with a hammer. They aren't all good looking, but it worked out and i had plenty fun.
>>2962137no pics so didnt happen
>>2957413Yeah Inwas perplexed as well
>>2962009Heavy equipment and diesel are their own fields with different training, though, and heavy fab is generally part of those programs. In the auto tech world, the most anybody is likely to deal with is roll cages and similar if they go into performance work, which is actually my former field, and we virtually never worked with anything over 1/8".Anyway, my issue is that the school is making its students learn LESS, taking away the MIG training that auto students are likely to use and making them do nothing but stick instead, something I've never seen in any respectable auto shop.As for losing techs, by the way, I do agree - I got out of it myself and my plan is to use the mechanical skills I have combined with the machining proficiency I'm working on to go into machine tool setup and service - but I will say that it's really the dealership end of things that's hemorrhaging workers because the system there is so fucking broken.
>>2962657>heavy fab is generally part of those programs.[x]doubt most of the heavy equipment guys that do welding repair were welders beforehand. the average scannerkid going around forcing regen doesnt even know what dual shield is
>>2957413>he doesn’t know lmao i’m not telling you dumbass
>>2962016We used to use CO2 years ago for mig welding then switched up to some Argon/CO2 mix which seems to make the arc run slightly smoother and less spattery but is also a lot more expensive. Recently I got that Vulcan mig welder setup and went with CO2 on it. Seems like I have a lot better luck welding with it outside with a slight breeze than I did with the Argon/CO2 mix. Is this a known thing that the CO2 hangs around in a breezy environment better? Just curious if anyone else had noticed the same effect or if it is just in my head.
