>>2972707
>My house still has its original 40 gallon, its 22 years old.
I've never had one last longer than 12 years.
>Right now we completely run out of hot water trying to fill a standard size bathtub to take a bath in.
enjoy you sphincter water.
>Are electric tanks a good alternative to gas?
>I am considering buying a tankless water heater for unlimited hot water.
>What are its downfalls? besides taking longer to get water and having to clean it annually?
you will need something like 60 or 80 amp wiring for one unless you have gas.

>>2972707
tankless on gas are pure kino. you can get a halo ion from a plumbing supply store for like ~200$ that you put inline to it and you'll never really need to flush it. they have a whole house unit that is like twice the price.

electric tankless you often need a panel upgrade, and even if not need to put in electrical service upgrades. they're also very expensive to run off electric rates, but you get unlimited hot water. unless you try to use one of the rheem point of use heaters, you'll regret it. a shower/tub needs like 3gpm to be reliably heated.

electric tanks are fairly efficient, running cost on average is ~40$/mo
bigger the better imo.
all the new ones fail because of cheap anode rods, i highly suggest investing in an electric anode rod. they're sold at home depot and lowes online for ~$150. it'll take your heater way beyond expected life.

if you have natural gas though I'd stick with it, hard to beat it's cost effectiveness.

the rheem marathon is also a good product if you can get one that isn't a dud, they are the majority of the time.

>>2972753
I forgot to also mention the essency water heater, also available from plumbing suppy houses.

it's a 50G tank with coils like a tankless, it heats and holds the tank water to induce heating on water as it passes through the coils. it advertises 'effective 80G' of hot water.
flushing is like a tankless, has a 20 year tank warranty which kicks every other companies ass.

it also has aesthetic

which reminds me of the LG inverter heater, similar to the essency with aesthetic.

moral of the story, standard 6 year warranty water heaters are just disposable junk at this point and it's shameful

>>2972720
They won't anymore, but they used to. I'm in a 53 year old house.
>water heater #1: 20 years
>water heater #2: 24 years
>water heater #3: 8 years
Don't know about all brands, but I needed something in a fucking hurry and bought a Rheem - and found out that big-box stores don't sell real Rheems and only pros can buy them - what I got was a POS Rheem made in mexico by Pacos Taco-bending and water heater manufacturing Co.

>>2972707
the water heater in my parents' house is over 20 years old, and has never been flushed or had the rode changed. miraculous that it's lasted so long but I have noticed I run out of hot water if I shower too long whenever I'm visiting.
I'll probably push them to go tankless since their house is older and has gas service.

I just purchased a home with a 20 year old water heater. Hot water smelled like rotten eggs so prior to moving in, decided I would change the tank. The old one had probably 10 gallons worth of scale/cum/glass in the bottom. Got an equivalent size, same fuel (gas) water heater at Menards. Replaced the drain with a ball valve that is threaded for a garden hose for easy draining and maintenance. The old tank was virtually undrainable because of the scale clogging the drain. The ball valve will remove that problem. Also replaced the anode rod with an electric. No smell, forever, and should have less corrosion. Expect this tank to last me until the late 2040s.

>>2972707
I bought a cheap Eccotemp tankless natural gas, even cheaper because I bought it opened/scratched & dented directly from them. Worked great the first 2 years, then it started giving the same error code about bad ventilation. I fixed it recently, the contacts on the thermostat rusted and was sending inaccurate temps to the control board.

Intake air and water temps determine the upperlimit on how much and how hot water it can deliver. I have to shower with lower pressure/flow when the weather is really cold because it'll throw out the same ventilation error code.

Condensing tankless water heaters use exhaust gases to preheat the intake water, so they're less sensitive to cold weather. But it causes the water vapor in the exhaust to condense, hence the name. So you have to add extra plumbing for them to drain the condensate.

>Are electric tanks a good alternative to gas?
No. Even if you upgrade your electrical panel, it can still cause your lights to flicker and damage electronics whenever it's turned on.

>having to clean it annually
Depends on your water quality and how much hot water your household uses.

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>>2972811
this is how you do it.

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Good info here on the electric anode rod.

Is anyone here knowledgeable on the water heater mixing valve? pic related
it attaches right to the heater. you set your heater to a high temperature like 140-160F and then use the mixing valve to cool down the water to a comfortable 118F.
Supposedly, its better for the water heater to be kept at a higher temperature. And modern heaters are more insulated.
The main benefit is more hot water from the same tank.

>>2972811
can I get info on your drain setup?
I want to try a sediment buster on my tank

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>>2972753

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we have an 80 gallon heat pump water heater from Rheem. it made it through "snowmageddon" with no issues. it is in heat-pump only mode & provided us with the "normal" amount of hot water it always does. it draws 400-800w when running. daytime setpoint is 50° overnight we have it set to drop to 43°.

it has not been totally flawless: twice it threw codes and switched to resistance element because I forgot to clean the filter... that's on me. cleaned, reinstalled, problem solved. it did have an evap coil thermistor that failed after 2 years of service. the part was covered under warranty, no cost to me. it took me 10 min to install.

I am overall very satisfied with it. it has saved us hundreds of dollars over 2.5 years of operation. it will cover 100% of purchase cost after 6 years of service.

>>2972885
I have mixing valve and heatpump water heater set to 140. Works great and easy upgrades everyone should do.

>>2972707
can you turn the heat up so you use less hot water?

Bro get rid of it we don't even work on a 10y old hwh, just replace it.
And yes big box Rheems are shit so find a supply house who will sell to you and gwt a commercial rheem, ao smith, or bradford

I had an electric tankless when I lived in a condo high rise without gas service. My panel had space but I had to upgrade with wiring to the unit, which was almost as expensive as the heater itself. For tankless, gas or electric, it's a game of temperature delta and flow quantity. In the winter when the water coming in is colder, you'll be unable to have as many hot water uses happening simultaneously as you do in the summer. Depending on the unit size, during the summer you might both be able to take showers in different parts of the house with the dishwasher running. During the winter, you might only be able to do one of those at a time. Otherwise you get lukewarm or even cold water.
For my condo it was a good solution as it freed up a large amount of closet space and it was just me living there, so the only time water temperature was ever a problem was in the coldest days of winter. I wouldn't go with an electric tankless unit in a house, especially with multiple people living there.

>>2972885

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233192780553

I purchased this one, just look for ball valve drain hot water heater. If you currently cannot drain your tank because your valve plugs with debris, I can't offer much advice.

>>2973066
Anyone else have on of the heat pump hot water heaters?
Are the Rheem marathon units any good? They say they have a lifetime warranty. Or should I just get a regular one and upgrade to the electric anode?

>>2973258
just leave the water on when you open the drain, usually that'll blow out the problematic debris
if not, you have sheets of sediment and (lost cause) you can stick a screwdriver through the drain with a bucket a bit to break it up. but... (lost cause)

>>2973270
a regular one with electric anode is probably best value. even if the heater still fails, you can transfer the electric anode.

the marathons are actually (the only[rheem]) good as a product
the problem is literally day 1, the way they do the glass liner on the hull is super fragile and like 50% break on on install and leak immediately.

i advocate for basic tank heater with electric anode or spending 2x more for an essency or lg heat pump.

>>2973284
thanks for the info anon, appreciate you.

>>2972707
tankless.

>>2973258
Cool. Thanks a bunch.
I don't have sediment blocking, but there is still a bunch left over. I tried shoving an air hose in there and opening the water valve to stir shit up and dump it.
I did thia about 5 hours straight and I was still getting black crumbs coming out of the tank.

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>>2973258
btw can you tell me what i need this here to make that ball valve work?

>>2973736
just unscrew it and screw in the new one, they're both 3/4 male threads into the heater

>>2973736
what's with the corrosion on that t&p release drain?

>>2973081
Not OP but not really without consequences. For Gas heaters it will wear out the burner faster.

>>2972753
>>2972755
My water heater is ancient and I have a well.
I like the concept getting a whole house tankless, but opinions seem to be against this.

What's your thoughts on getting 3 smaller dedicated thankless units:
1 Kitchen
2 Main bathroom
3 Laundry/half bath

>>2973765
not sure
>>2973764
ok, hopefully. i'll buy that valve and install it the next time i flush the heater. i have a hardware store nearby should i need anything.

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>>2973861
point of use, 120V heater will not be able to support a shower head. that's about the only issue.
I think they cap out around 1.55GPM.
There are some decent low flow shower heads you can get though.
if you have access to the pipes and can do the plumbing easily, it's not a terrible idea. They are super cheap. That's now 3 things to replace every couple years (if you have hard water) instead of one tankless to flush yearly though.
Realistically it's no different that just installing one of them on main line, unless you're planning to run those locations simulationously. It'll just take a little longer for the water to start being hot, clearing the line to point of use.

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Mine is going out, so I've been slowly piecing together a build to spread out the costs. Going to buy an electric anode rod next, and a brass drain valve. For the heater I'll probably just buy an AO Smith or Rheem

>>2973875
Great insight. Thanks.
I like the idea of unlimited hot water when needed, that takes less space. And I want to move the water heater from it's present location. Just think that well water and flow rates may be issues.

>>2973880
what am i looking at?

>>2973972
The expansion tank setup

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>>2973880
The expansion tank will last as long as the heater, I don't know why you would use an expensive adapter to install it. Just hard pipe that shit in.

>>2973975
I just thought it was neat :-)

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>>2973976
well ok then

Can an ambitious DIYer change out a hot water tank himself, or should I leave it to the pros?

>>2973985
It falls well within the DIY realm

>>2973985
it's generally very easy. you just need to make sure you have the tools to connect to the pipe the heater ties into. ideally you use copper, cpvc is tolerable, if it's anything else you need to transition after 12" of proper pipe; and always include a shut off on the cold side for servicing.
some counties require a permit, up to you if you give a shit(i don't).
sure chatgpt can give you an easy guide

>>2973973
What does that do?

>>2973990
it's a secondary safety device in case the t&p release fails, they've become required for code compliance in many areas. it's a bladder tank that absorbs pressure buildups.
interestingly they don't need to be installed at the water heater location, they can be anywhere on the cold lines of the house and can also be supplemented with a pressure relief valve on exterior incoming water line.

honestly just government justifying itself

>>2973995
You've got it backwards, the tp is the last line fail safe, the tank absorbs routine thermal cycling. Didn't matter until everyone got check valves to prevent backflow to the main but now it does.

Is Rheem actually that bad? Feels like Rheem is all they sell around here, I want one of the fancy heat pump ones but it will be tough to get anything but Rheem.

I got a 2 story house, well water, whole house filter, 50psi pressure tank, water softener and iron filter.
my water pressure slowly tappers off and then picks up again.
my pressure tank is holding 50psi fine, ive flushed it many times, it fills up very fast via the well pump.
whole house filter is half dirty, i flipped it.
im not sure why my water pressure tapers off like that.

how can i improve water pressure in my home?
i want ot go tankless but trying to take two showers at the same time kills off the water pressure too much

im also looking for a new water heater. are all modern heaters made to last their warranty +1 day?

>>2974102
you have to go to a plumbing supply store like fergusson. just look on google maps, there's many.
yes it is the worst.

>>2974125
>im also looking for a new water heater. are all modern heaters made to last their warranty +1 day
yes we've covered the options to deal with this

>how can i improve water pressure in my home?
>tank is holding 50 psi fine
>my water pressure slowly tappers off and then picks up again.
that's how well pressure systems work, the pump fills the system to 50PSI, then doesn't turn back on till the PSI drops to 30 and only to bring it back up to 50
you can upgrade to a 40-60 pressure switch easily and cheaply.
trying to run two showers at once is generally underwhelming for everybody unless the house is plumbed well unusually well

>>2974058
you right. i was thinking chronologically

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>>2974143
>upgrade to a 40-60 pressure switch
>tfw your podunk one horse towns water system is 15-18 psi on good days

>>2972707
>replaced its rod
is it true that you only need to do this in certain areas? I got my hot water heater in like 2020 and so far I've done nothing at all to it

>>2974786
"sacrificial anode rod"
some areas you have to do it more often than others, you only learn by checking
and when you check you may as well install an electric one

I thought this was /diy/. You fags actually buy your water heaters instead of making one with nuts n bolts and bottles? Phonies.

>>2975478
lets see your 150ton press

>>2972707
Have you changed the thermostats and heating elements (assuming electric)? 40gal with a good hot temp should give you a full warm bath even if there’s some sediment in it.

I thought about tankless too but I have heard a lot of negatives. You will need to add circuit breakers, and depending where you live and how cold your tap water is, the results vary.

>>2975948
in this winter month, not running any heating besides wood, my electric bill is the same as running AC in summer
it's just the tankless heater dealing with the cold as fuck ground water

>>2972811
Nice
Mine should be replaced but they built a wall around it...

Can I get more info on commercial water heaters, and where to buy them.
are they generally 120v or 220/440v?

I've got a 6 year old water heater and I'm trying to replace the anode rod but I can't unthread it. I've had my dad hold down the heater while I winge on it with a 4 foot long breaker bar, tried having him hit the socket with a mallet while I do it, tried hitting the end of the breaker bar with the mallet to act as a manual impact wrench, nothing worked. I'm afraid of using an actual impact wrench on it incase I fuck up the bolt or the heater itself, is there anything else I can do?

>>2978743
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhEVygjD7xU

>>2978073
220. Just look for a plumbing supply store and call them, there's multiple in every city and they carry industrial water heaters. it's crazy to buy the shit heaters at hardware stores

>>2978743
use an impact. i tried with a breaker bar and a friend holding the heater, no go. i was twisting the whole thing.
impact took it right out. had to go to highest setting.
no issues using an impact. been over a year, no leaks.

I bought a house with a 10 year old electric tank water heater. When it finally goes, should I consider a gas one? I have a gas boiler right next to it. Should I just stick with the electric set up?

>>2979322
gas are way more energy efficient if it's natural through a meter, generally speaking.
problem will be running supply.
just because there's a line running to the boiler doesn't mean it's large enough to supply also to the heater. Depending on distance from the incoming at meter and pipe size it can be determined. If you see a half inch line running from the boiler, see if it transitions to 3/4 in the ceiling
if you have to run a new line trac pipe is silly easy, but expensive

and if you're running a natural gas line then you should size it for a tankless and get that instead, just make sure to install service ports and flush after a year to see how much corrossion built up. if not much you can go a couple years to next time

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>>2972755
>>2973284
>essency
Have you used Essency? Our water heater is 37 years old and presumably filled to all fuck with sediment. I don't imagine the previous owners did any maintenance on it at all. The Essency sounds interesting but I'm very skeptical on it. Not sure if we should just get a standard Bradford White instead. No gas hookup.

>>2980991
No. I've installed them and the customers that got them have only said positive things. I would absolutely buy it if I needed such a thing, I currently have an electric tankless I'm gonna replace with a 12yr 30G smart tank heater I can get for $300. I don't have anywhere to put a larger tank unfortunately. The tankless is definitely raping me, it was an experiment. I had replaced the original 30G with it.
All the data online says it is cost saving or the same as a tank and it's complete bullshit.

I don't know how to make the arguement to customers, they tell me they want an electric tankless because everything they read says they're more energy efficient...
It might be more efficient in producing hot water but it isn't going to save you money.

Anyway, my objective opinion is the Essency is a fantastic product that solves most the problems that exist in this shitty disposable water heater market. If you can fit a 50G tank you can fit it, and it'll be worth it.

>>2974125
>im not sure why my water pressure tapers off like that.
How old is the tank? Your bladder in it might be fucked. Or you need a bigger tank. Remember, only about a 1/3rd of your tank is actual water. So a 7g tank only has about 2gallons of water. A 20 has about 6, etc.

>>2981074
We ended up just getting a standard disposable heater. The essency sounds really interesting but I've seen so many mixed things along with what is clearly a ton of marketing so it gave me pause.

>>2972773
>found out that big-box stores don't sell real Rheems and only pros can buy them
I just went down the rabbit hole changing out some faucets and came across the same assertions. I don't have specific experience with hot water heaters or plumbing fixtures for that matter, but I worked for years in a different industry that supplies big-box stores. So you know, anybody in the water heater trade here can school me, but most of the "pro models are better" story about anything is half truths and total bullshit. Delta and Moen at least will tell you that if the part number is the same, the part is the same in retail and at a pro dealer.

The big differences with pro models:

1) Usually the warranty will cover callbacks for the installer (I'm not even positive this is true for faucets, but I suspect it is) if the thing breaks under warranty

The end. That's the biggest difference and what you pay for with a pro model, and why you let your installer buy what you want installed

2) They might include little tools or sauce packets of goop or whatever for the DIY installer version. Maybe an instruction poster. That kind of thing.

3) They might have things in the pro version that are single piece that won't otherwise fit in the box they designed for retail, so the DIY version has you assembling more yourself. Or other installation streamlining for the pro that isn't workable for retail. Time is money for the pro.

>>2981698

4) In some products the retail version will have the full color fancy box and the pro version will be plain brown kraft paper, one color printing.

5) Pros are very conservative as they should be and don't want new features or design or whatever until people start asking for them. Retail buyers always want the new shiny. So the new look or the new features etc usually go to retail first

6) Very occasionally cost-outs and supplier changes will go to retail first, in part to shake any issues out where it means individual returns instead of an installer or worse a dealer returning pallets and switching to the competition. Also because retail turns product over very quickly

>>2974125
your pressure tank holds 50 PSI when nobody is using it, but when you use it the pressure drops to 30PSI before the pump kicks on and struggles against the high flow rate of a shower
you can look at higher PSI pressure switches, they're cheap and easy to replace.
I'm guessing you have a 30-50
There are 40-60, there's some higher but generally not recommended. They also have fine tune knobs so you can make a 40-60 a 46-66
Your could also change out your shower head for something that uses less GPM, so the pump can keep up with a higher pressure.
Your water heater isn't a factor in the equation.

We've(I've) already explained water heater optimization in this thread.

>>2981084
ok retard

>>2981698
>most of the "pro models are better" story about anything is half truths and total bullshit. Delta and Moen at least will tell you that if the part number is the same, the part is the same in retail and at a pro dealer.

It is actually a thing.
As for faucets, the product they sell to home depot is 90% plastic and the product they sell through commercial retailers is only 80% plastic.
Same for water heaters, but uniquely in florida commericial water heaters are shipped with an aluminum/zinc rod that better handles hard water than the magnesium rod that will come with the ones at the box store.
>Usually the warranty will cover callbacks for the installer
generally this is only worth it if the customer handles the warranty process and gets the new fixture delivered so they're just paying for the new faucet install.
If you're paying the installer to deal with the warranty it's cheaper to just have them install a new faucet.

As a plumber dealing with water heater warranties is infuriating, which is why I keep pushing the more expensive and higher quality products. I promise everyone involved will be happier in the long run.

>>2981732
The anon said the tank recovers pressure quickly. Sounds like it's short-cycling indicating a tank problem.

But it seems he's gone, possibly dead. We'll never know.

>>2981733
sure it fills up very fast. but is that when he's taking a shower or when he's testing with a different fixture? either way it's still dropping to 30psi and rebuilding from there
doesn't make a difference

>>2981741
Dropping fast and recovering fast is a tell-tale sign of a bad liner.

I'd tell him to check the schrader valve to see if water comes out, but he's gone.

>>2981744
>Dropping fast and recovering fast is a tell-tale sign of a bad liner.
yeah maybe or it's just a 20G bladder tank and he's trying to live a bousie life taking two simultaneous showers
but yeah last post 2/11 lol

>>2981745
It wouldn't recover quickly were that the case, anon. Of course quickly is a relative term.

>>2981732
>As for faucets, the product they sell to home depot is 90% plastic and the product they sell through commercial retailers is only 80% plastic.
I found that 10% difference is usually the drain, incidentally. Though they do carry the steel drain part numbers at the home stores. I didn't really care because I have literally never in my life had either a plastic or a metal drain fail. The one I got happened to have the steel drain. I thought it was interesting the lower part of the steel drain was two pieces that have to be teflon-taped and on the plastic one it isn't. I would have thought pros would prefer the version that was lighter and didn't require an additional installation step (time is money), but maybe it gives you more flexibility?
>generally this is only worth it if the customer handles the warranty process and gets the new fixture delivered so they're just paying for the new faucet install.
If you're paying the installer to deal with the warranty it's cheaper to just have them install a new faucet.
Yeah, again, time is money. In the industry I worked in, installers hated callbacks with a vengeance because of the opportunity costs - time spent on a warranty call, even if they were fairly compensated, was time they could have spent on something more lucrative. So they were losing money, relatively.
>As a plumber dealing with water heater warranties is infuriating, which is why I keep pushing the more expensive and higher quality products. I promise everyone involved will be happier in the long run.
That's a good reason to trust the person installing stuff. But the flip side is they will push to what they have on their truck, what they know, what's fast to install, and so on. The opening price point products are frequently the highest quality and most carefully engineered because the manufacturer's margins are so slim that warranty service cuts deep. The Civic's going to be more reliable than a loaded Acura.

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Wife and kids went to visit family for the weekend. Decided this would be the best time to replace the water heater. LET'S FUCKING GO BOYS! IT'S GO TIME!

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First step was replacing the plastic drain valve with a brass one.

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>Socket to remove old anode rod: 1 1/16"
>Socket to install new anode rod: 1 3/16"
dang it

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Just found this in my toolbox :-D

>>2984078
>Dielectric unions when the tank nipples have dielectric linings
Those better be code mandated otherwise wtf you doing

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>>2984252
Would most people have ripped off the factory linings if they're using picrel?

>>2984252
I'm still pissed the fucking home warranty plumber was like'nah I'm not replacing thst shitmight break the tank' when both dielectric. Union were damaged by previous installation. They're like over torqued and over heated so the plastic is halfway in the pipe

>>2984272
I'd pull off the dielectric union and use one of their plain g thread unions, fuck dielectric unions

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Gotta fix my hangover before I can fix the water heater

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Had a lot of back flow coming out of the hot line. Shut off the water at the curb but it kept going. Opened a couple of faucets and then it stopped.

>>2984331
Make sure you put a pan under it and that is has a drain to daylight. Someplace you can see if it starts leaking.

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I got this 18 gauge cold rolled steel plate to skirt the wall behind the heater. Hoping it looks nice. I'm also painting the wall gray. This will be my only chance to paint back here for the next 20+ years.

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I'm happy with this result

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Of course these straps came with no instructions

>>2984371
no one cares

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>>2984376
Thank you for visiting my blog :-). Now is the step my lower back has been dreading.

>>2984377
No catch pan? No line connected to the blowoff valve? So, you'd just gonna soak your garage if (when) the thing fails?

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>>2984384
>So, you'd just gonna soak your garage if (when) the thing fails?
Yes

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Dang it

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It's leaking at the factory crimp. I've tried tape and no tape, but it leaks no matter what.

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She's up and running without any leaks! Thank you everyone for your support. I hope my blog posting inspires others.

>>2984443
>>2984474
how did you fix that? seal dislodged during install?

>>2984480
I added a flat rubber washer and cranked it down.

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I just want this to be over. The hot water pressure at all sink faucets is very low. Cold water pressure is normal. I suspected the tank's dielectric lining on the cold water side was restricting flow, so I yanked it out and reconnected everything, but there was no change. Prior to replacing the heater, I had low hot water pressure, but it's even worse now. I was hoping the heater replacement would fix it. Maybe it's not related to the heater, although I'm unsure what else it could be. The pressure gauge on the webstone manifold reads 70 PSI. When I check the pressure at the hose bib, it's at 82 PSI, although I'm not sure that matters. Maybe there's a different issue down the line. Might call a plumber. I'm over it.

>>2984499
sounds like theres blockage on the outlet side plumbing. was there iron pipe in the wall? that shit rusts closed

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>>2984503
I think it's all copper. My house was built in the mid 70s. I removed the dielectric lining on the hot side but it made no difference. This is what it looks like inside. The check flap doesn't seem to be broken.

>>2984499
Make sure your mains shutoff valve is fully open.

>>2984515
It is. When i test pressure at the hose bib it's 82 psi. Cold water pressure at the sinks are all fine too.

>>2984499
>>2984519
The way you are testing it won't reveal the issue. You have a 'flow' problem not a 'pressure' problem. You can't test pressure when the pipes are closed up and water is not running. No matter how restricted your pipes might be the pressure will come up to its max when the water isn't flowing out.

>>2984522
I'm going to try a reverse flush and see what happens.

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>>2984523
Don't cross the streams.