I'm interested in building a solar forge from a ~0.5m Fresnel lens I found at a silent auction in Milwaukee. I think I know how I'll set up the forge, but what sort of eye protection do I need?
Won't work unless you're setting up a forge for ants. The focal point is dime sized or smaller
>>3002136I can buy a wider lens to collect more sunlight. Then it doesn't need to be fully focused (it probably doesn't need to be fully focused now).This isn't an untried project. It's been done before. I just need to know the eye protection necessary.
>>3002132you'll certainly need a lot of insulation and patience!Have you not even guesstimated?1 kw/m2 irradiance on a clear dayyour lenses edges are 0.5m? So 0.25m2 or 250W at best?Are you going to forge thermoplastics?
>>3002148I don't need to guesstimate. I tried it on some scrap iron and it got red hot in seconds. I'm asking about eye protection, though.
>>3002150Youre delusionalanywaysM. 14 welding goggles with reflective coating
>>3002161Again, it's a proven concept. Here's a video of an admittedly larger Fresnel lens literally melting steel on contact. I don't need to melt steel, I just need to soften it to work on an anvil.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=drE54ctrHBY&ra=mThanks for the answer though. Do you have a recommended brand? Will I be able to see my work as I wear those, or should I look for like, uhh, a monocle version or something?
>>3002174The guy takes the tiniest woodscrew places it at the focal point, where it will then locally heat and melt.In defence of the concept he isn't using insulation but still, I expect a long time to pass for an object that can be productively forged to reach a meallable state.Like lets say a piece of rebar. If I wanted to - as you put it - get it to red hot in seconds and in order to achieve this I'd choose to point my oxy torch or TIG at it after cranking it right up, I'd start gouging a hole into it because heat transfer in the steel is limited. So I can not heat it in seconds to red got with a point heat source without locally cooking it. Guess what a more diffuse source dies? Heat the material evenly, but it will take longer for any part to reach red hot.>recommendationMost of mine say 'sherman-profi' on them and I am happy with them. Being simple products I suspect they are produced and marketed rather locally so the ones you get might be a different manufacturer but the same as they are standardized.>MonocleUsually you get stamped goggles that accept the glasses. Or one with an additional leather face mask, depends on your welding technology.>Will I see my work.Look: You say it will turn steel red hot within seconds and you're very convinced. That's alot of power! I would never look at the sun with a shade less than number 14. You're even focussing it down! Losses in the lens aside thats very high energy density. You have shown that the steel may melt. When metals melt they usually become highly reflective. This is a recipy for retinopathy.Will you be able to see a piece of steel glowing red hot after pulling it out of the beam? No way. You will have to put the glasses on before working with the beam and off to work with steel.
>>3002132>"I know how to do the hard part, but I need help with the retard easy baby part"
>>3002183I'm not reading all that because I can tell from the first sentence you're being disongenuous. As I said, I'm not trying to vaporize metal instantly. I'm trying to do something much easier than what he's doing, which is simply soften it enough for forgework. I'm not interested in some futile argument about whether or not it is possible when I literally tried it yesterday on scrap metal and it worked. I am only interested in discussions on eye protection.
>>3002188>point beam at metal are hard part. Point beam tuf! Me no no how point beam!Ok retard.
>>3002207>need dark glass on eye>dark glass??? dark???>??? how is dark darker porque¿!¿
>>3002209There are over a dozen options for welding goggle specifications. There's one option for where you stick the metal, retard.
>>3002206>I'm not trying to vaporize instantlyYou are trying to forge steel! And it was you claiming red hot in seconds. FFSAnd you're repeatedly demonstrating that you do not understand this one core concept:It can he seen as 'easier' to vaporize steel almost instantly than to forge. Because the same power focussed on miniscule thermal mass, like a fucking woodscrew, does alot!But why write when you don't even read. I'm curious why youre even asking.
>>3002210Yeah and almost everything you can buy that isn't shit is going to be adjustable. Meanwhile you still only have 250W of power to heat your forged item.
>>3002211>dumb nigger doesn't understand opticsJust defocus the lens a bit retard. Didn't you ever play with a magnifying glass? Christ the people on this board are like 72IQ.>>3002212250W is more than enough. See the vid I posted. There are dozens more vids. This isn't up for debate.
>>3002216>see the vid I posted>with the 1000W lens slowly melting a 4mm woodscrewYeah and normal electrical forges are 5-15kW just for lols. They were like>well we could make it 250W and run on any outlet but where's the fun in that, let's make it 15kW so it's more expensive and harder to useBut to be fair, if your goal is to forge pencils and woodscrews, then the 250W will definitely let you do that, it's not up for debate.
>>3002216>niggerI have written, ITT, about diffusing the beam.But as you have explained you don't care to read answers you get in response to your questions and instead make a fool of yourself, displaying your inability to understand most basic physics, while accusing others of exactly this.Now go away and KYS whore.
This motherfucker BOUGHT a lens that some tweaker scrapped from an old back projection TV and you all expect them to understand anything you are telling them and have reasoned, rational responses to your criticisms?
>>3002224>>3002226I can get a bigger fresnel lens if I have to. I can defocus the beam if I have to. This thread is not about getting the Fresnel lens to work. It's about getting eye protection. I'm not reading your inane bullshit about how it's not gonna work blah blah blah. If you have something to say about eyewear, I'll read it. Otherwise, fuck off smelly niggers.>>3002231It was an industrial grade lens from the estate of a former professor of optics, nigger.
a solar foundry is reasonable I think, if that's what you mean. Don't even really need eye protection if the focal point is inside a crucible, though some basic welding shades are probably a good idea just to reduce the chance of accidents. Just don't stare at the dot or get in between the lens and the crucible. I don't think it's suited for a forge. To forge metal you want large even heats, and a large total amount of heat delivered to the metal fairly quickly. A foundry can work because as long as the inside of the foundry gets to the melting point it doesn't matter if the heat is uneven, it will sort itself out as soon as it starts to melt, and it's fine if the actual amount of energy delivered is relatively small because as long as it's contained it will reach melting temps eventually. If you're trying to heat an entire piece evenly to forging temperature you can't really do that, it will melt whatever is in the focal point before the rest of it even gets red hot, and increasing the size of the focal point lowers the temperatures you can reach extremely quickly, and increases the speed you lose heat to the environment so pretty quickly it becomes impossible to reach forging temps. I haven't built one myself so I don't know exactly what that size is, but I'm pretty confident in saying if you want a forge, a box of dirt with a pipe and a hairdryer and some charcoal will work much better for anything large enough to be worth hammering on.
>>3002951I've gotten metal hot enough to work with just a 0.25sqm lens. I can afford a 0.8sqm lens. Defocusing it a bit can distribute the heat/prevent overheating, but I'd need to protect my eyes since I am going to be staring at the dot / metal to ensure it reaches the desired temp.I don't know why people on this board can't fucking read. The lens concept is not the issue. I am simply asking about eye protection.
>>3002993>I've gotten metal hot enough to work>The lens concept is not the issueThere's a rather large gaping hole in your chain of arguments where you jump from heating (steel?) to forging temperatures to productively forging steel and you're the only one not wanting to see it.>eye protectionLast time i visited this thread I gave you a definitive answer/thread
>>3002997For the last time, this is a proven concept. The forge idea is not mine and is not up for debate. People can and have done it. There are literally hundreds of examples. There is even a website dedicated to specifically this idea:http://helioforge.org/Is this enough to shut you the fuck up? Do you need me to come to your house and demonstrate the concept personally? Fucking retard.As far as your eye protection suggestion goes, you must be the one that vaguely suggested >>3002212, without giving any links or examples of adjustable glasses/goggles suitable for this purpose.This is the most useless board on this fucking site, and I'll be so glad when its 60IQ community is inevitably disbanded.
>>3002999So where on the website is the forging demonstrated. Please link to it. How much time fto go into a single horse shoe do you deem acceptable? Do you even have experience with conventional blacksmithing using a gas or coal forge? It takes several heats to create the most simple objects. Commercial lower power gas forges put out many kW of heat and are pretty well insulated and still with some the time you spend waiting for a single heat on a rather small object (horse shoe, knife blade...) is not acceptable.>>3002212Is not me.>>3002161>>3002183is me. I have given you a specific standard that should keep you safe. I have even provided you with a brand name after you've asked. But you explained you wouldn't be reading that before explaining>>3002993>people on this board can't fucking readHypocrite.But have fun "forging' woodscrews with a <1kw 'forge'.Eternal fuckwits not understanding classical physics even.
>>3003005Just to emphasize my point. >picrelis a useless toy. It says it's 5.6" x 5.6" x 10" only. And the manufacturer claims 80000 BTU. That is equivalent to 23 kW.I have earlier ITT estimated insolation at ~1 kw/m2 which is a fair estimate.You need to use 23 fresnel lenses with an area of 1m2 each to rival a fucking useless toy, if you assume equal insulation.Meanwhile you have ITT described how you will productively forge objects using one lens with an area of 0.25m2 translating to 250W.And you call other people low IQ or stuoid when you aren't even able to make reasonable estimates or understand this simple fact.
>>3002999>doesn't understand forging>doesn't know what forge vs. foundry is>doesn't understand watts>"you told me what to buy BUT YOU DIDN'T EXACTLY LINK ME TO A PRODUCT???">"you told me EXACTLY what product to buy BUT I DON'T LIKE YOUR TONE MISTER, >> I << AM THE SMART PERSON HERE, YOU DON'T GET TO WRITE PARAGRAPHS AT ME!!!">250W Fresnel lens forging
>>3003008Wait until he finds out about the law of conservation of etendue.
>>3003008>>3003009>post video showing people doing the work>>b-but it's doesn't works!!! *drools on keyboard*>post math showing it works>>b-buts it are not is working!!!! *shits self*>post entire website dedicated to the concept>>*random sperg noises*You people are like actually, certifiably retarded. Thanks for the bump I guess.
>>3003006I literally heated a piece of scrap iron hot enough to glow light red with my 0.25m^2 lens. A 0.8m^2 lens will have over three times the power. Your argument is invalid.
>>3003027>post mathNo you did not. Again: Ses the etendue of the sun is sufficient. Provided enough time and low losses you can heat any amount of steel past its melting point.This is not the issue. >>3003029>a piece of scrap iron>hot enoughNo one contests these facts. Sink 250W into any amount of steel for a long enough time and it will boil even through insolation.You want to forge. This is what you stated. What was the volume or weight or that steel and how long did it take you to heat it?I am asking because - as I have alluded to before - forging even small parts with low power hobbyist forges is a PITA because you are waiting for every heat. And those forges provide 100 times the power your lens transmits, ignoring losses in the lens. You will be 100 times slower. You will not be forging in a meaningful and productive manner.I quit this thread. Shade 14. Athermal brand.
>>3003031>i-it won't work!!!>w-well, it does work, but I don't like how you got it to work!Just neck yourself already, dude. It's a forge that requires 0 fuel. I'll be patient and cheap.>shade 14. Athermal brand.So, not adjustable after all?>I quit this thread.Thank Christ
>>3003027The link you posted is to a dead site abandoned 13 years ago with zero actual work. The video link you posted is to a foundry (which is not a forge) and it's not used for anything whatsoever, the guy just sells Fresnel lens for profit (not successfully). This is a video of solar forging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdvzTzVqpNo and they used a fuckhuge trailer mounted mirror array around 10 square meters (meaning about 10kW of heat) and they still had to edit out the "minutes" of heating time and still only made a small scroll. >who cares, it's literally free power!Fresnel lens are not free, even if your ultra-incompetent workhours are worthless. You could buy a piezo gas torch for $10, get 1-2kW of heating power and do all the "forging" you will ever do in your lifetime with it on a couple $1 gas cans, OR you could buy $200 of Fresnel lens, get ~0.8kW of heat if you stand in the hot sun with it, plus the eye protection that is incredibly complicated and hard to understand and probably requires a PhD in not being a total retard.
>>3003038>. It's a forge that requires 0 fuel. I'll be patient and cheap.how do you deal with the lack of protective environment for the steel? a forge can vary the atmosphere for different tasks from reducing to oxidizing. a piece of white hot steel sitting in open air will irreversibly burn without an inert atmosphere or flux treatment
>>3003045The temperature at which steel actually burns is much higher than the temperature at which it glows/is workable. Anyone who has spent 7 seconds in a forge knows this.
>>3003041>I quit this threadJust stop, you've embarrassed yourself enough already. Nobody is reading your fuming essays anymore.
>>3003041Your video's lens isn't even in focus btw dumbass. Probably not tracking the sun either. God you're such an embarrassment. Just leave my thread, this is annoying.
>>3003056>Anyone who has spent 7 seconds in a forge knows thisburning a piece is a common fuckup so its obviously youre the 1 that needs 7 seconds more experience and if oxidation wasnt an issue there wouldnt be vacuum furnace and inert atmosphere mufflesalso if youd ever some somethingas basic as used a gas axe youd know just past dull red is enough to start an exothermic reaction with a little bit of free oxygen go touch iron you retarded twat
>>3003061>proven wrong 15+ times>he keeps coming back for more humiliation>still making blatantly wrong statementsI can do atmospheric control if I need to (though as I've stated, I don't need to in order to prevent burning). Why would a solar forge preclude that?Are you a masochist? I should start charging you a fee for this smackdown, retard. You said you were leaving, whatever happened to that?
>>3003045Clearly you're too low IQ to understand this 4D play. You don't need atmospheric control if the workpiece doesn't get hot.
>>3003069>it uses no fuel!>I will just use bottled noble gasses and CO2 BUT IT USES NO FUELclown
>>3003119>tranime fanAh, now I see the mental caliber with which I'm dealing. The puzzle pieces are fitting into place!>>3003140>what is a bellows?Again, atmospheric control not needed. Now go, like you promised. Dumb tranime samefag
>>3003140>he doesn't have an inert gas bellows that spawns infinite argon from the aetherNGMI
>>3003156>more tranime samefaggingPicture this: SHTF. You have no way to obtain coke except by digging the coal up out of the ground and burning it yourself. Your blacksmithing career has ended, the minute it actually became useful. Your neighbors are begging for nails, horseshoes, hooks. They know you loved blacksmithing before the balloon went up. They come to you and you impotently tell them something obscure about not having propane or coal, and they decide to kill you and loot your home instead.MEANWHILE, I have my solar forge, which requires no fuel, ready to go whenever the sun shines. I take my neighbors' scrap iron and make useful things to help them survive. They are not concerned with the heating process. If my work requires atmospheric control (it doesn't, because I don't burn my work like some amateur) I can do controlled wood burns around the work.Understand? Oh, here comes another insane objection, accompanied by an androgynous underaged girl drawn by some balding Japanese man...
uh oh melty
>>3003158That's what I thought. Kys tranny
>>3003157Uhh sorry sweaty but I have 25kW photovoltaic solar. Neighbors can sell me their maid cosplayer daughters for the privilege of powering a fridge from my system.
>>3003147you now went from demonstrating you do not understand physics to demonstrating you do not understand chemistry (in relation to metalurgy) either
>>3003157SHTF is probably the only reason conceivable that traditional charcoal kilns would make a comeback, and that would be vastly preferable to using a fresnel lens (which WILL craze and become opaque in this use application within a few tens of hours of work) to make the world's shittiest spot-welding tool.
>>3003209>i-it'll become opaque! It just WILL!Charcoal can't be turned into coke btw dumbass. Keep revealing your ignorance.
>>3003207You're talking about needing compressed gases for light forgework, and you're trying to tell ME I don't understand chemistry? I promise you I've spent almost as much time working with spherical harmonics as you have getting smacked with the retard stick on the short bus.
>>3003162>more tranimeYou should transition anon. Become your REAL you. You'd be so much happier.
>>3003157forced air is enough to make even a wood fire get hot enough to do basic forging, and charcoal is easy as shit to makeif you're so confident this is going to work why not build it? Get the cheapest welding goggles from harbor freight and don't focus the lens onto your face and you'll be fineif you can get a 6 inch length of 3/4" square stock up to forging temps I'd be surprised, but who knows, it would be cool if it worked
>>3003261hes never going to build it he just made this thread to try to dunk on people to satiate his inferiority complex but failed because he lacked all fundamental knowledge and any basic experience and continues to crashout in an incoherent screechfest
>>3003261>forced air is enough to make even a wood fire get hot enough to do basic forging, and charcoal is easy as shit to makeI guess that's why medieval peasants used compressed gas on wood instead of coalburning as a literal full time profession. Retard.>>3003266I already have a scaled down version built in my backyard, as I've said multiple times ITT. It is suitable for heating iron red hot as I've already done. My dilemma is what eye protection to use. For some reason (You), samefag, can't seem to read that part. I'm curious, do your last two neurons just shut down when your eye scans those words: "eye protection"? Or are they shut down all the time and you're spamming tranime and lefty memes out of muscle memory, like some chicken with its head cut off?
>>3003323>It is suitable for heating iron red hotHow much iron, at what speed?
>>3003332Enough to make nails, horseshoes, light tools such as tongs. In other words, everything I want it to do. It took maybe 20 seconds for my scrap iron to get red, and that was on a cloudy day.
>>3003323Do you not know the difference between coal and charcoal?
>>3003348Actually, you've demonstrated very clearly that YOU don't know the difference. Charcoal is incapable of producing coke, which is necessary for traditional forgework. Coal is the only way to do it, which is why coalburning was a profession in medieval Europe.But please, try getting your primitive wood fire hot enough to forge iron. I'm amused at the thought of some tranime faggot crying at its own impotence (in more ways than one).
>>3003349so you actually don't, crazy ass dunning kruger examplecharcoal is wood heated in a low oxygen environment to burn off the VOCs and leave you with mostly pure carbon, similar to coal and coke. Coke is just coal with the VOCs burned off leaving mostly pure carbon as well, though they've got different densities, impurities etc, and also depends on the variety and quality, bituminous or anthracite, or what kind of wood it was for charcoal. You can do it in batches industrially or just use raw coal in your forge and manage the fire so it gets cooked a bit before reaching the center of the fire, most smiths don't buy coke. Any of the three main solid fuels, charcoal, coal or coke can reach 3000+ f with a good air supply, even hand pumped bellows as long as they're a decent size and that's more than enough for any forging work. Charcoal also has the advantage of no metallic impurities so you don't get clinker forming in the fire pot, and it's much nicer to work with in general, albeit more expensive. Plain wood has low carbon content and lots of water even dried so it won't get that hot so you won't usually be able to forge weld in a wood fire but you can still get like 1700f which is enough to do work, but it's easy to make charcoal if you've got wood anyway so there's not a ton of reason to. Here's some youtube guy doing it though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBjO9OPHMrs Blacksmiths used mostly charcoal from the start of the iron age until the end of the medieval period, mined coal was used in some locations that had easy access to deposits but it was not the rule, coal didn't get common even in london until the 16th century and there were still large smelters using charcoal until the start of the industrial age and they only really switched everything over to coal after they used all their forests to build the royal navy and ran out of wood, and when they colonized america is came back big with the sudden access to seemingly infinite old growth forest.
>>3003349charcoal is just refined carbon fuel dipshit if you were old enough to read you have seen the lindsay book written by some autist on a quest to cast iron and steel that had to relearn the lost art of charcoal making to fire his cupola furnace
>>3003360Patently false through 90% of your post. Coalburning was widespread in Europe by the 14th century. Charcoal will not get you anywhere near the temps of coke. >>3003361Samefag here's a (You)
>>3003414Ngl OP, pretty solid work with the thread. You put in the effort too. 10/10 bait
>>3003414>Charcoal will not get you anywhere near the temps of coke
>>3003420>>3003435Cope dumb nigger
>>3003458>chat gpt you cant make this shit up stick to your stolen tv lens lil nigger
>>3003460Here u go tranime babby:https://web.archive.org/web/20120314103442/http://www.worldcoal.org/coal/uses-of-coal/coal-steel/https://www.fao.org/4/x5328e/x5328e05.htm#TopOfPageI suppose you'll prove yourself even more retarded with the next post. Go ahead.
>>3003462you are the retard claiming charcoal cant melt bronce by virtue of having a combustion temperature between 600 and 900°c, something bush people pulled off thousands of years before your first larp.>Charcoal is incapable of producing coke, which is necessary for traditional forgeworkIt just keeps getting better and better, industrial age forge coal is not refined coke, they explicitly choose unpure sticky coal because the resin content is desierable for shaping the fire and controlling the atmosphere
>>3003463>tranny gets proved wrong with undeniable facts about reality>backtracks and invents more obviously false realities that now have to be proven wrongColor me shocked
>>3003464>undeniable facts>ai>links he didnt even read before posting
>>3003465AI is retarded, it's true; but it's demonstrably smarter than you, tranny. Sure says a lot.
