>>76568022
It's just broken down into aminos in your digestive tract. They don't do anything.

>>76568067
>they don't do anything
>multiple studies show that reduction in pain is found when supplementation is added additional to daily amino acid spread

I bet you think protein powder doesn't do anything either you fucking jeet shit.
36% collagen amino acid diet is the optimal protein spread. most people are collagen deficient.

>>76568067
If this sort of reductive reasoning hold true, why doesn't arsenic just break down into carbon and hydrogen, bro?

i take it because it supposedly good for your skin and tendons n sheit. does it work? idk. but it has good protein too so why not add it to the post workout drink

>>76568136
Arsenic is an element you silly goose

>>76568022
>the taste
YUCKY!!!
just eat a full spread of amino acids. your body will allocate appropriately.

>>76568022
Makes your hair and nails grow twice as fast so it definitely does something.

Since nutrition is a black box
There are not proper studies done on how much protein you need to take in order for the collagen to have zero effect. It would not surprise me at all if it was in the realm of 1.4g protein per KG body.

Even then, the collagen makeup might not be prioritized over the general normal profile of amino acids.

>>76568067
Yeah, you're right, because digestion exists. Nothing has any impact.

>>76568085
Can you show me those studies? I'm not mocking you or challenging you. I'm generally actually interested in seeing the evidence.

>>76568022
Some studies say yes

>>76568157
>does it work
>idk

It's literally an amino acid supplement, why are you people so dense.
So magically your body doesn't absorb amino acids now?
It either works or doesn't.

For the record the digestive tract and all your organs, every single organ in your body is made mostly of collagen amino acids.
As you get older the first deficiency found in the body is loss of tendon mass.
As you get older the digestive system becomes increasingly inefficient, meaning you digest less nutrient.
Which compounds the issue of low tendon mass. Tendon mass being the only noticeable source of stored collagen amino acid, as all other organs use it actively.

What else do elderly people suffer from?
>insomnia
low glycine (collagen)
>aches and tendon pain
low hydroxyproline/proline (collagen)
>inability to regulate temperature
low glycine (collagen)
>digestive ailments
stomach and intestines are 99% collagen
>skin sagging, thinness
all collagen amino acids

Bros on here trying to keep muscle mass into late years and wasting all their food sources on non converted amino acid ratios that they can't utilize in a 24 hour period.
>b-but more protein
it doesn't do shit, almost all the protein amino acids in muscle tissue can't do shit to convert to collagen amino acids and require additional amino acid supplementation just to convert.
Better yet, back pain and joint pain, the leading factor in you not working out into old age. Is almost entirely collagen amino acid and synovial fluid deficiency.
I'd rather risk a small waste of money on the only supplement worth taking than multiple dollars on supplements that have no real actual benefit to your life.

it's 100% beneficial for skin and joints

anyone telling you otherwise hates you

>>76568253
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6566836/
36% collagen amino acid study, proven that you can ingest 36% collagen amino acid. With less calorie intake, and not sacrifice any necessary protein amino acid intake for bodily function.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8521576/
This is the most important study.
If you read this we have multiple findings that showed quantifiable increase to either joint extension or reduced measurable blood levels of inflammatory factors.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8620403/
A larger more broad grouping study.
This is where you will find larger "well that sounds like bullshit" because we just don't have enough studies yet.
However you should study them, because there is a wealth of information leaning more towards the general idea that the modern human
>eats like shit
>and collagen deficiency is commonplace
if you believe at all in your heart that the average human looks like shit, functions like shit.
Is bloated and fat, weak and lazy, and the only thing in their diet they would be missing is larger collagen amounts where they abundantly get protein amino acids from goyslop diets.
You should take this more seriously and realize there is a conspiracy at work.

>>76568067
Protein is protein

>>76568022
I've been taking them for a few months and I've noticed my hair and nails grow stupid fast while on them. My joints don't hurt like they used to after a run. So its definitely doing something, but I have no idea if its actually doing anything for my skin.

>>76568272
so is it good or not

>>76568316
>>76568253
all these studies come to similar conclusions that collagen supps make a difference if your own collagen is wearing out faster, eg from diseases, old age, and serious running. Does pretty much nothing for weight training. Helps hair, nails, and skin too but mostly as a crutch for poor vitamin absorption/intake, esp vit C.
If OP has serious skin problems and joint pain it's worth taking

>>76569665
would it be better to just take vitamin c or eat foods with lots of vitamin c?

>>76569674
eating the food is always the right answer. Vit C is easy to get as long as you eat some fresh veggies/fruits

>>76569665
>does basically nothing for weight training
>the single most important factor in long term weight training is joint health or tendon insertion health

now this is shitposting.
next you'll say lifting weights is bad for you also.
any deficiency to collagen amino acids within your body prevents your spine from being able to heal.
If you were going to be deficient, it would always be more important to be deficient in meat based amino acids and not collagen based amino acids.

lurk moar before posting.

>>76569686
>lurk moar before posting
reddit spacing

>>76568022
Considering we still dont know what form is best, what mode of use (do we eat it or rub it on our skin?), we dont know what dose is best, and we dont know what we can realistically expect. Consider how many women shill collagen supplements in literally every product they can.

>>76569695
lurk moar before posting
it's not reddit spacing if you are separating your points newfag.

>>76569747
that's what the greentext is supposed to be for anon. it's ok youll pick it up soon!

ive been sucking down pears lately. are they good?

>>76568067
collagen is 25% glycine, compared to muscle meat which is like 2%
Your body can't produce enough glycine to get ideal amounts of it.

VItamin A accumulates in the body with age, which causes collagen to break down more rapidly (vitamin A causes skin peeling ... aka collagen destruction).

Try it yourself and find out, instead of being ignorant

>>76568022
>expensive collagen peptides to get glycine
just get it from gelatine or stuff like skin-on
chicken if you don't mind the extra fat/calories

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>>76570300
>>76568085
>>76568136
>>76568251
>>76568320
Friendly reminder that these faggots are shills who want to sell you dick pills

>>76570334
>>76569683
I was already eating a ton of veggies and getting a ton of vitamin C and plenty of proteins and I still noticed a difference when I started supplementing collagen peptides.

I've been eating about 800~1000g of broccoli, half a rotisserie chicken, and 2 cup of bone broth everyday for the past 6 months, which was supposedly already high in natural collagen, protein, vitamin C ect as the core of my diet with some extra shit on the side for variety (spinach, kale, jerky, berries, milk, whey powder, ect) but those three (chicken, broth, broccoli) have remained consistent and the bulk of my daily calories. I get 150g of protein minimum and my 6 week average Vitamin C consumption was 933% the daily recommended value. Then I started supplementing via collagen peptides (20g/d) about a month ago now and I noticed a big difference in how fast my hair and nails were growing. Previously I needed to trim my nails maybe once a month or so, now I have to trim my nails just about every week, its was stark difference, hair/beard is growing faster as well, I have to shave daily now, used to be able to shave every other day. So its definitely doing something that I wasn't getting from food sources I was not expecting something so noticeable as most supplements have subtle effects and supposedly I already was getting a lot of collagen from my diet.

Its harder to quantify skin or joints, I run daily and I used to have joint pain and that's gone too, but I'm not sure if its due to the peptides or just improved technique. So 100% it works if you just want your hair/nails to grow faster, kinda expensive, sure, but it does something I wasn't getting from food, the other claims I'm not so sure on as they're harder to quantify objectively.

>>76568022
collagen 100% works for me

>>76570377
>kinda expensive, sure,
just looked it up and it's not much more expensive than gelatine ($49/kg for collagen peptides vs $42/kg for supermarket gelatine in australia). might switch for a while and see if i feel any difference.
your body should be able to breakdown gelatine really easily though, so i'm sceptical that there is any difference.

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>>76570463
I never tried gelatin, and I'm not really sure what you mean, like eating jell-o everyday? Like what brand do you get?

The collagen peptides are kinda pricey and I mix them into my broth, which thickens it a bit. So how much are you taking a day? I'm not sure they even sell just pure gelatin at my grocery store but then again I haven't looked for it. First I'm hearing about using that instead of peptides.

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>>76570475
yeah..its just the stuff in jello without the sugar and flavouring. you can dissolve it in hot water and just drink it.
afaict collagen peptides are just gelatine that has been processed so it's a bit more broken down and quicker/easier to digest. i haven't read anything that says gelatine is difficult to digest though.
gelatine and collagen peptides are both ~90% protein with the same amino acid profile (lots of glycine).

>>76570475
>So how much are you taking a day?
i had some persistent elbow pain for a long time. i started taking 10g gelatine daily and/or skin-on chicken breast instead of skin-off and the pain went away.

>>76570511
>>76570520
Well for fun I might cycle off collagen peptides for September, see if my hair/nails stop growing so quickly and see if my joint pain returns post-run, then cycle onto gelatin during October and see if it picks back up. If its the same shit why pay more for the peptides, might be fun to find out.

>>76569758
you gotta lurk moar before posting dude, you don't get to cope.

>>76570372
>fin threads posted daily with actual discord trannies in thread
>the only actual supplement proven to do anything and this faggot says it's shills
rrrrrright

>>76570561
Joint pain will take months to return as your body starts to use its tendon mass for basic maintenance.
I don't think people realize just how slow tendons are to add their hydroxyproline/proline molecules to their structure. The stem cell only activates with forces of greater than 4 minutes of constant activation in a week period.

I digress, if you've been supplementing for greater than a year, it will take numerous months for you to become deficient again assuming no other changes to diet.

>>76570595
>if you've been supplementing for greater than a year
I've only been supplementing collagen peptides for almost month now, I've been eating a diet supposedly high in collagen for about 7 months. see >>76570377 for the full summary.

>>76570602
well if your diet is now high in collagen the dropping of supplementation would be unlikely to do anything.
for expansion on this we generally only recommend supplementation for the first year as a "insurance" that you are slightly above your collagen amino acid macro ratio to actually combat deficiency.
Once non deficient, small changes to diet are generally considered sufficient for basic maintenance, as conversion will handle the bulk work of your needs.
If you are already at the point you are having pain reduction, you have applied collagen stores to your body via tendon mass.

Think of it this way, we utilize collagen 24/7 since it's the largest amino acid spread in our body.
So if it takes 5 years for you to become deficient, it will take 5 years worth of collagen supplementation (spread out in some more healthy manner of course) for you to not be deficient since your tendon mass has cannabilized itself to the point you cannot sustain.
Odds are you were just a couple of months deficient, which is good news anon. You must have had a rough year or so.

>>76570602
>>76570614
for reference I had to supplement for two years straight to stop full body joint pain.
only reason I stuck with it is because I was slowly seeing reduction in pain in individual joints and not much, but each month it got slightly better one joint at a time, one tendon at a time.

2 years later was the official point I realized I no longer had pain. So I had been deficient for about 2-3 years, severely even for full body pain.

>>76570614
>You must have had a rough year or so.
I went from 400lbs and being almost completely sedentary to 180lbs and jogging 5 miles everyday and lifting 4 times a week over this past year, probably a pretty big shock to my system, yeah.

>>76570628
Yeah I mean I'm proud of you, but it was not a healthy moderation for you.
You now know better, can't do that much damage daily and think it won't have some impact to your health.

Hopefully you didn't permanent fuck up your shit and you'll get to enjoy your new weight.
good luck to you.

>>76570617
Most of my pain was in my knees/feet when I was transitioning from walking to jogging. I got to the point where just waking wasn't enough to get my heartrate into the target zones anymore so I started jogging a bit, then I had to jog a bit more, and more, and eventually I was just doing the whole thing as a jog rather than a walk, and at first it absolutely killed my knees/feet, then when I started supplementing collagen and the pain gradually went away. Again, not sure if it was due to the peptides or just improved technique. I was jogging for about a month before taking them and had constant pain, then I started taking them and over that month the pain gradually subsided and now I don't have pain in my knees/feet anymore.

>>76570637
Well my skin might be fucked beyond repair, got a ton of loose skin and stretch marks supposedly peptides might help with that, partially why I started taking them, but I went to see a doctor for the first time in almost two decades recently, last time I was still a teenager, and apparently beside high cholesterol I'm very healthy right now, the rest of my bloodwork was excellent. Though my doctor said they suspect the cholesterol might just be high due to only being about a year since I changed my diet and started exercising and we don't know how high it was when I started. I think my LDL was like 140, got another check up scheduled in a few months to check back in on it.

>>76569665
So you don't actually have studies got it.

which horse supplement is good for joint health?
"Feedmark BEST-FLEX HA" looks pretty good so far but the packaging is too much.

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>>76571522

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>>76571525
but that's electrolyte not for joint health

>>76571534
I don't understand how you could have possibly missed the point of the post.

>>76571540
i didn't miss it at all hence the picture.

There's a study which shows collagen peptides combined with high doses of vitamin C help with loose skin when losing weight

>>76571534
I'd rather have a joint for electrolyte health

>>76568022
bones and tendons are mostly collagen too
idk, I put 5g in my morning tea everyday and see no reason why I wouldn't keep doing that forever

>>76571525
I bet you were the same type of midwit calling ivermectin 'horse paste.

>>76568022
It's 100% skin oil, seriously.
It's just that, collagen peptides, and as peptides your body will use it for whatever, be it building collagen or whatever else it needs, like every proteins you take. On paper, one could argue that taking collagen peptides will make it more easy, or likely for the body to build them back into collagen, but there's 0 evidence for it.
Honestly, you are better off eating more proteins.
All the small benefits these things have if they even exist come from the vitamins they usually add, and for that you are better off buying multivitamins, it's cheaper and they have more.

>>76568067
If you're not getting enough of those amino acids then it seems like it definitely would do something.

>>76570595
>your body starts to use its tendon mass for basic maintenance.

>>76572951
>Honestly, you are better off eating more proteins.
>All the small benefits these things have if they even exist come from the vitamins they usually add, and for that you are better off buying multivitamins, it's cheaper and they have more.
Nah, I was taking a multivitamin long before taking collagen peptides, I was also eating 1.5g of protien per lb of lbm and I still noticed a stark difference in how fast my hair and nails were growing when I started taking this. There is more to them than just protein and vitamins.

I can confirm most anon in here and have consumed it about some month.
>Nail and hair grow faster rate
>Skin not so much dont notice anything different
>The best benefit for me is joint health. I think this is the best use for it

>>76572951
>protein is fat
Yeah no

Yeah, I asked chatgpt, collagen powder is more specialized.

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>>76573803
>I asked GPT

Yeah idk about skin or other things but for me it also made my nails grow what seems to me like significantly faster, so the "just breaks down into irrecognizable protein" can't really be true right? I've eaten similar or more total protein /day with no collagen supplementation and didn't see such nail gains.

>>76574277
No, it's not true. Primarily because nobody has ever said that.

>>76573418
It does, you can look it up yourself.
autophagy.

the body must keep your skin, stomach, lungs from falling apart or else you just fucking die.
so if you do not ingest enough collagen amino acids, your body will and does perform autophagy on tendon mass to keep these three from falling apart.
your body also requires collagen amino acids for basic brain functions since you cannot sleep without adequate glycine since it is required for body temperature regulation during sleep cycles.

Collagen amino acids are only stored in tendon mass to any large amount.
which is why people begin to experience tendon pain/insomnia followed by skin issues, stomach issues, and lung issues generally in that order.
this is basic biology.

>>76574295
They have
Virtually every post online asking about this has a reply like >>76568067

>>76570659
I usually tell people that supplementing peptides vs collagen foods really doesn't matter all that much, deficiency is deficiency and has to be addressed.

However I did find that collagen peptides seemed to work easier into my general life, which if that allows you to supplement more. the benefit is clear.
It doesn't taste like anything to me, not a thing.
So it worked great in milk, coffee, cottage cheese, yogurts, soups, it didn't negatively impact the taste of anything. Which was incredibly rare and it was very easy to measure vs making my own gelatin or bone broth.
I'm a butcher so I have an absurd amount of bones and tendon excess.

I don't supplement using peptides now, but when I realized the deficiency, it was clearly superior just on the fact it was an easy "near exact 25g of protein".
I stopped accounting for muscle based proteins almost entirely, I just ate like normal and only supplemented collagen. No loss of muscle mass, only reduction in tendon pain.

Personally people shill muscle based amino acids way too much. Body only needs like .5g/lb to maintain and this has been proven time and time again yet shills tell you to eat like 1-1.2g/lb and they can't even do lmao 1/2/3/4.

As for the loose skin, it depends on your age.
You can't loose scar tissue, it will disperse and become less noticeable, but comparing scars decades later almost all the scar tissue mass still exist, it is just slowly spread around.
Loose skin though can retract way more than fatties tell you.
Skin has an amazing function to retract until it feels a specific amount of tension across a given area (this amount of very dependent on the area and your genetics).
The problem is how long are you willing to wait?
People weighing over 100lbs above optimal BMI (muscle or fat) upon losing the weight only had to maintain the proper weight for a handful of years and the skin retracted perfectly fine.
Extreme obesity can take decades though.

>>76568022
If you're eating high protein diet already it's overkill. You'll grow random fuzz and stray hairs all over your body, and constantly have to cut your hair and nails. If you have a big nose or ears, they will grow larger. It can accelerate the growth of cancer as well.

You always have to consider the side effects. In the end nothing is really worth taking except a multivitamin.

>>76574347
Yeah like I said, nobody said what you quoted.

>>76574365
>if you're eating a high protein diet
if you're eating a high protein diet you're pissing out the majority of the amino acids because most of them physically cannot be used for anything other than muscle mass.
that's the whole point, most efficient diet, most efficient use.
It's way cheaper to just take a scoop of collagen powder and actually hit your amino acid ratios than eat an extra fucking steak or take a scoop of protein powder.

37% collagen diet newfag.

>>76568022
I mean i can grow back hair after i lose it even while drinking like a fifth a day if i feel like it, i also just eat skin/bone broth/stew meats/idk what else but with vitamins fat and usually have an egg or 2 a day.

>>76574369
Yeah like I said they did, aminos are proteins thank you for your valuable reply

>>76570377
You were deficient then. Normal people have to trim fingernails once a week. Normal males have to shave daily (5 o clock shadow is a thing). Sorry you are an outlier probably shit genetics.

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>>76574731
>You were deficient then
Nah, your theory just doesn't work. I had been taking a multivitamin, eating ample vitamin C and protein everyday for ~6 months at that point and the effects of supplementing collagen were again immediate and stark. Prior to my change in diet I likely was deficient as my diet was complete shit, but not by the point I started supplementing collagen.

Your hypothesis is that despite eating over 1g per lb of protein and ~900% DV of vitamin C everyday for about six months prior to supplementing collagen I was still somehow deficient in vitamin C and/or amino acids and that deficiency finally resolved itself coincidentally the same week I started supplementing collagen. That seems really unlikely. The simplest explanation, requiring the fewest assumptions, is usually the best one when faced with competing hypotheses and in this case that's means collagen peptides made my fingernails and hair grow much faster than just eating a lot of protein and vitamin C.

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>>76574902
logical fallacy.

collagen turnover in the body is constant, it happens every second of every day. it's the most abundant amino acid combination in the human body.
so unironically unlike other supplements, immediate collagen amino acid supplementation would indeed be met with benefits no matter how small within the first 24 hours, with direct correlation to the amount supplemented compared to deficiency.
It is very easy to begin to see benefits within the first week.

>muh protein
>muh vitamin C
proteins conversion rate to collagen is abysmal and you fell for the protein shake shill propaganda.
If you are deficient, you still have a maximum rate within 24 hours that the body can convert muscle based proteins to collagen based proteins. The body does not magically convert more or less. It converts the amount your body says it can convert.
Vitamin C does not create new collagen newfag, it literally and unironically just makes collagen stronger by forcing a lysine and proline molecule into collagen type 1 predominantly.
If you were deficient in collagen sources, vitamin C would not benefit you in any way as you would still
>be deficient in glycine
>deficient in proline
>deficient in hydroxyproline
All of which would at that point be limited entirely to the conversion rate.

As stated numerous times in thread
Your skin must repair itself daily, your nails must repair itself daily, your hair grows daily, your stomach must repair itself daily, your lungs must repair itself daily, your brain requires glycine to function, your liver uses collagen, your kidneys use collagen, your heart has a small amount of collagen, every tendon in your body uses collagen.

Yes you were still probably deficient, it's incredibly easy to be deficient in collagen.
No drinking more protein powder of eating another steak is not the same thing as eating or supplementing actual collagen sources.
You don't know how the body works or you are shitposting to keep other anons down.

>>76574323
I generally agree with what your saying, but the primary storage site is the skin, not the tendons.
The body will sacrifice skin health before it sacrifices tendon health. It will sacrifice the health of skin at the extremities of the body, like hands, feet and calfs first, because they are the least important to survival.
If you are getting tendon problems before skin problems, this is a sign of exercise induced damage, not nutritional problems.

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>>76571525

Take the monke pill. Unironically it will help with your gains

>>76576030
It's beyond me how you totally missed the point of the meme.

>>76576037

Don't care. Would rather get big and fuck.

>>76575958
the body does not prioritize skin over tendons.
in fact it's the exact opposite.
you're assuming the mechanism is that the body takes the most from skin, no it doesn't.
while autophagy does happen at the skin level, it's mainly that the body just doesn't allocate new resources to the skin, which is why the skin begins to break down.

>because they are the least important to survival
logical fallacy, the skin layer is by far the most important to survival since any tear in the skin, no matter how small will result in blood infection if the skin does not find a way to close it off. It's a closed system, a system you use daily.
So once again while autophagy does occur, it's not a sustainable source.
meanwhile you can live off tendon mass for months, which is why your skin continues to just build itself (even if suboptimally) while you begin to get weaker and weaker.

>not nutritional problems
that's just a shitpost, the body is perfectly capable for 80 years of your life of repairing nearly every bit of damage to itself. hell we now have tangible evidence that even the heart and brain can heal themselves, albeit not in a timely manner that shows tangible results.
So something that is meant to repair itself daily like the skin, will do so if you actually have the resources to repair it.
The skin is not limited by the 24 hour cycle, the skin has three layers that are always building themselves a new layer every three months as the oldest layer either falls off or is absorbed.
however premature damage always results in the stem cells activating and starting a new layer of skin no matter how premature.

once again you will flat out die if your skin does not repair itself, meanwhile you will not die (quickly) if your body sacrifices tendon mass.
hell depending on the tendon mass, you won't die at all, you'll just be a gimped freak.
people survive without the use of arms and legs all the time.
no one survives without skin.

So many options, Is there 1 single best form of collagen ?

>>76576071
>the body does not prioritize skin over tendons.
We're sort of talking past eachother here.
The largest volume of collagen is in the skin tissues, and your body can allow the quality of the skin tissue to degrade from the beautiful quality to wrinkly old man quality without compromising any functionality.

>the skin layer is by far the most important to survival since any tear in the skin, no matter how small will result in blood infection if the skin does not find a way to close it off
there's an enormous amount of middle aged people who get skin blemishes and cracked wrinkly skin starting on the hands and feet, without having any tendon problems

>once again you will flat out die if your skin does not repair itself, meanwhile you will not die (quickly) if your body sacrifices tendon mass.
logical fallacy
workmans comp didnt exist 1000 years ago to support all the field hands who through out their shoulder during threshing season

>the body is perfectly capable for 80 years
Aging = accumulated effects of Repair minus Damage. Toxins accumulate with age and cause most of the damage.

>>76575840
>so unironically unlike other supplements, immediate collagen amino acid supplementation would indeed be met with benefits
What stange and round about way to say. "You were right, sorry." Glad you finally agree with me though, your previous posts were just silly.

>>76574844
More like cock accepted into mouth hahaha

>>76575840
Kek at pic