>5 wasted months>looks like he lost 10 lbs of muscle>mogged by a two week water fast
>>76669856looks better than you tho
>>76669856He looked better on the left
He looks better on the right. Look at the tiddy fat on the left, no definition, looks like gyno, the flab on his belly isn't great either. At first I was worried he cut that long and only lost that much weight but a 1lb/week careful cut seems like it worked out okay for him.
>>76669856>water fastSay goodbye to your lean mass anon.>The 10 day fast decreased BW by 7% (−5.9 ± 0.2 kg, P < 0.001) and BMR by 12% (P < 0.01). Fat mass and lean soft tissues (LST) accounted for about 40% and 60% of weight loss, respectively, −2.3 ± 0.18 kg and −3.53 ± 0.13 kg, P < 0.001. LST loss was explained by the reduction in extracellular water (44%), muscle and liver glycogen and associated water (14%), and metabolic active lean tissue (42%).6kgs average loss, 60% of that was lean mass of which 42% was muscle. Ten days to lose 1.5kgs of muscle or the equivalent of having all of your shit dialed in and hitting the gym for 3 months.
>>76669856Once you're that level of fitness you've pretty much made all the gains you're going to so you are just basically just always maintaining, either at a slight surplus or deficit
>>76669945Yeah I fasted for like 4 days and it set my lifts back a month+
>>76669925agreed
>>76669856slow cut retains muscle mass better. there's a reason why slow cutting is the current trend in pro bodybuilding. a lot of ppl experimented this and a shit ton of pros provide comparison on their youtube nowadays. i have a friend who competes occasionally and when he made a sudden cut, he was deflated like a pancake and looked like shit on stage (ended up being the background).
>>76669856He probably likes eating. I am like that too. He has good insertions and frame.
>>76669856He's toned on the right, that's all that matters.
>>76669945How much would you lose on multiple month long cut?
You only lose muscle if you run out of fat in your body. The whole slow cut meme is retarded. If you want to tighten your skin to your muscles dry fasting gets you there sooner and more effectively. Muscle loss only happens to a noticeable degree if your gains were from roids in the first place. So being natural is not only more honest, but objectively better for functional strength and cutting. Look at how fast some faggots lose their gains in prison without access to gear. Lmao, you fags can use it all you want. Natty will always beat your ass.
>>76670198What about if your gains are pure glycogen? Wanted fast shrinks them?
>4 pounds a month>"slow cut"faggot retard OP
>>76670326Explain
So if we are generous and say this guy went from 15-10% bodyfat, that means, 10 lbs of fat lost. So where are the other 10 lbs coming from?
>>76670632he is clearly not 15% in the right pic, more like 18-20%and regardless you lose water weight when in a caloric deficit so a few pounds must have been water
what the fuck kind of shave is that lmao
>>76669856Looks to me like he lost fat, not muscle. Compare tits, on the left they sag and seem uneven, while on the right his pecs are firm and evenly sized, and his nipples taught. Plus on the left he has a muffin top over his waistband, which is noticeably reduced on the right. Its all progress.
>>76669856DIEting is for infertile homosexuals
>>76670918Yeah, he looks like he didn't lose an ounze of muscle. Dunno what OP is about.
>>76669945crazy to think millennia of evolution would decide that in periods of little to no food, the body would rather consume the parts of itself that would more likely contribute to finding and catching more food, rather than the stored energy supplieswhat a retarded evolutionary trait
>>76670765>18-20%At that amount of bodyfat % you would barely see any muscle separation
>>76671069it's because periods of no food were out of the individual's control and due to external factors, not because he lacked muscle to find and catch more foodretaining muscle also just compounds the negative effect as it increases energy needs, while fat tissue doesn't as much and its presence increases the chance of survival in case the unpredictable period of starvation for one reason or another lasts longer than "normal"in the end of all lean body mass, muscle is indeed the less useful, unless you'd prefer to sacrifice your vital organs first
>>76669945Did these people not continue training at all during the period? Everything I’ve seen suggests that true muscle loss doesn’t seem to occur above a true 10-11% body fat as long as you’re actually training. Really the takeaway here, if this is true, is that “maingaining” might really be the move. If an actual aggressive longer bulk can’t be quickly rinsed off without losing muscle mass, the slower rate of gaintaining might still put you ahead, since there’s no way frequently slow cutting for 5-6 months at a time is practical for anything. Imagine needing to waste a whole half year of growth in your twenties just to try and lose 20 pounds of fat, especially since you likely can’t add any muscle without a caloric surplus. Does 6 months of good growth and 6 months cutting beat 10 months of partial slow growth and 2 months of cutting?
>>76669958Pretty sure that’s just from glycogen depletion and feeling shitty thoughUnless you’re stage shredded, there’s no obvious reason for your body to just slough off muscle like that
>>76671024>t. fatty
>>76671317Yeah, but the idea that your body prefers to drop any lean body mass over fat, your literal rainy day energy storage system, makes no fucking sense. I accept that it seems to be true in many cases, but it’s infuriating. Fat serves no biological purpose except energy storage, why am I not immediately burning it for energy?
>>76671361because in the end the optimal amount of muscle needed for survival is far less than what bodybuilding and the modern aesthetic ideals lead us to believe is necessary
>>76671388But the optimal amount of fat for survival isn’t 20-25% either lmao I’m not trying to be difficult or say that you’re wrong or that fasting works, I’m rejecting the idea that there’s a good biological reason to lose any muscle mass from weight loss if you have love handles. I accept that that muscle loss might happen, I just want the right to be pissed off about it and think it’s a failure of biology. Caveman in a state of nature doesn’t need a potbelly
He looks good in both photos, so the answer probably is that he has other more important things in his life than going to the gym and counting calories.
>>76671406but such an abundance of food had never happened in the history of the human species, no selection has occurred against such a high fat gainif anything, selection against gaining such an amount of fat is what's happening in our days, as the negative effects are fully showing and decreasing the lifespan of those affectedor maybe what will happen is that selection will reward those who survive despite the high amount of body fat for one reason or another
>>76669869For gay guysWomen prefer right You aren't gay, right?
>>76671491Wait, are you giving him a choice between being a woman or a gay guy?
>>76669869>He looked better on the leftto women.>>76669925>He looks better on the rightto homos.Left is dadcore, right is twink.
>>76671344I've done a lot of 7 day fasts, and when I do one full body workout in the middle of it, I don't lose any muscle. My strength will decrease by a rep or two when the fast is over, and then within a week of eating normally I'll be back to my pre fast strength level while being lighter.I think that the best approach is to bulk at a slight surplus(200-300 cals) for a long time, and then cut aggressively. Muscle is hard to gain but also hard to lose as long as you're still training, and if you do lose any, it comes back rapidly.
>>76671437The fuck are you about? You don't get to look like him without putting effort and minding your diet on both pics?
>>76670765lmao I don't get this meme. It's generally accepted that in order to see abs you need to be <14% body fat, less if you have genetics where fat is stored more around you belly. Stop listening to your roided influencer 'friends'
>>76669945>https://doi.org/10.1002/jcsm.12766>German study>Sixteen healthy males above 18 years and of body mass index below 32 kg/m2 were recruited>Body composition at baseline and Fup was assessed by whole bio-impedance spectroscopyimpedence kinda shit but alright>During fasting, all subjects received a portion of 20 g of honey each morning and had to drink 2–3 L of water or non-caloric herbal tea. An organic freshly squeezed fruit juice (250 mL) was served at noon and a vegetable broth (250 mL) in the evening. Total daily calorie intake was 200–250 kcal/day (Table S1).they should have eaten nothing or only necessary protein/fat, carbs actually slow fasting adaptation>During the fasting period, an enema was applied every other daywtf Germans not beating the shit porn allegationsMeanwhile a study in China>https://doi.org/10.3390/nu14183860>13 male participants undertook water only ad libitum drinking during the fasting period in a controlled laboratory building, accompanied with a mild-intensity lifestyle programwater only>A 22-day experiment was divided into four phases (3-day Baseline (BL), 10-day CF, 4-day CR and 5-day Full Recovery (FR).>The whole-body composition was assessed at the BF2, CF6 and FR5 by a dual X-ray Nutrients 2022, 14, 3860 4 of 18 absorptiometry (DEXA) scanDEXA, very good>Figure 4.>. * p < 0.05, ** p < 0.01 vs. BF; # p < 0.05, ## p < 0.01, vs. CF6, n = 13.BF3 is 3 days before fastingCF6 is 6 days into fastingFR5 is 5 days into refeeding>Body composition analysis showed that the fat mass continuously lost in the whole experimental period which mainly occurred in limbs and trunk, especially in subcutaneous and visceral fat supported by the more decrease of SFT and EVM (Figure 4n,k). Additionally, the declined lean mass or fat-free mass recovered after 4-day CR and 5-day FR.4b also indicates any lean mass lost was apparently all water, with no significant differences from BF after refeeding
>>76669953If you're a natty faggot, sure
>>76670197If you cut correctly you'll probably lose about a pound of muscle for every 8-9 pounds of fat. It's honestly just better to bulk slow and not put the fat on in the first place though so if you do need to cut it's only 3-4lbs of fat a year. Most people are just eating way too many calories when they bulk and getting needlessly fat.
>>76671503I'd prefer to be a woman.But u can't. Then, Im good with wearing sexy lingerie
>>76671646So you don't lose muscle in water fast?
>>76672226.Additionally, the declined lean mass or fat-free mass recovered after 4-day CR and 5-day FR.
>>76669856brutal>>76669869even more brutal
>>76671646That German fasting protocol is insane, what were they thinking? Literally the whole point of water fasting is that you take in zero calories. If you’re gonna have your “fasting” participants taking in calories throughout the process they should just be doing a PSMF. That’s my opinion on this whole discussion, if your goal is rapid fat loss you’re probably better off doing PSMF. it’s only a little slower than pure fasting and there’s less of an anxiety about muscle loss. For clarification - PSMF is eating 1-1.25grams/lb of pure protein like chicken breast or whey, along with as close to zero fat or carb calories as possible. You can also eat very small servings of broccoli and similar on certain protocols. You don’t get the sort of mystical metabolic changes from true fasting, but you lose weight fast as shit. Every 14-21 days you’ll want to spend 1-2 days eating at maintenance and taking in carbs and fats. Otherwise your system gets kinda screwed up. The guy in this thread who makes the point that most people are over bulking is very true though. I haven’t personally achieved this, but ideal is probably to get very lean and then slowly build up so you don’t have to cut for more than 8-12 weeks ever again for beach lean. Obviously, beach lean is more fat than BB stage lean, that’s stupid to ever achieve for a natty
>>76671069Muscles consume calories just by existing, so it makes sense to destroy them in case of famine.
>>76672237So it gets back fast after refeeding?
>>76672804>>76672226>>76671646Sounds like var, primo, and test on a 5 day water fast is the quickest way to shred a fuck load of weight.
>>76669856this guys gut looks like hitler
>>76671646> STUDY SUGGESTS FASTING CAN KILL YOU ACCORDING TO EXPERTS> Ignores the 50 grams of carbs a day
>>76672480what about the every other day enema
>>76669856what's the rush?
>>76673328Would also skip that, unless you’re German>>76673339Wasting time that could be spent building actual muscle, playing sports, etc, because instead you’re on a restricted diet feeling like shit
>>76673339I was early to finish, I was late to start
>>76673497the diet isn't very restrictive if you're doing it slowly>building muscle I never even entertained the idea of cutting until I reached something I wanted to maintain.
>>76673718I guess that’s the biggest issue, most people have to go through multiple bulk and cut cycles to get to their final goal physique. It’s very rare to be that close in muscle mass or that willing to be unaesthetic levels of body fat for years at a time. Overall point is that most everyone should bulk slower, I suppose
>>76674035I started as a lanklet (6'4" ~ 170 lb) and I slow gained. I never had lots of body fat, maybe 18 or 19% at most? It took me like 6 years to get where I wanted and to me that's totally fine. Just like how there's no rush to cut, there was no rush to bulk
>>76673497I'm losing fat on a 3000kcal high carb diet. Feeling great, training every day, increasing strength, playing sports. Could probably go as low as 2000-2500 no problem but kept lots of veggies in for health.
>>76674225>>76674497Assuming these are both from the same guy? Yeah, sounds like you did it in the right way, most people don’t have the presence of mind or the patience to bulk that slow haha. Obviously, extended slow bulks is the best strategy, especially if you can start from low bf%How big are you that 3k is a cut? Or are you only losing like 2-3 pounds a month?
>>76670326Yeah it's a bait thread and no one even noticed.>>76671069Agree it's fucking stupid. The body stores months of calores in fat, yet it can barely survive on that for a few days because it needs stuff like amino acids and electrolytes that you can only get along with calories in nature anyway.
>>76671056So he lost 20 lbs of fat but his abs look exactly the same
