Give it to me straight, no BS, NO MEMERY.I'm skinny fat, about 20ish5 bodyfat with no muscle and skinny spindly girly arms. I want to look like picrel, and I'm getting conflicting advice on bulking vs cutting. Nothing too crazy (yet), but I'm getting some activity done.I've already started some cardio and I lift some too, but the diet is where it confuses me. Eat more or less than maintenance?
>>76698764Yes, I lost 30lbs while gaining lean mass over a 4 months period with a keto-esque diet.
Just eat and work out, stop asking questions
You're not gonna look like that.You can make gains on a deficit it's just slow and hard. Keep carbs high for energy and eat enough protein for building muscle dont deficit too hard or your energy will plummet.
>>76698764You are skinny fat. You'd gain muscle just by lifting random weights, at least for the first year. But I still don't advise doing that, keep it at maintenance. No need to complicate shit with bulk&cut cycles just yet, since you need your macros in order to make it work
Can someone, somewhere, technically? Maybe.Can YOU, OP, build muscle while in a deficit? No. Absolutely not. Do a lean bulk to start until your beginner gains on SS run out, then cut down to a reasonable bodyfat % like 10 or 12%, then lean bulk again on an intermediate lifting program, and then cut down to however lean you want to be, and THEN do your bodybuilding on a solid foundation of strength.
>>76698855>this is what science based knowledge does to youEven as an intermediate, you can build muscle in a deficit. Stop reading about working out and actually do stuff.
>>76698867Have YOU done that? Or are you just posting on vibes right now?Certainly, OP cannot do that, and I'm not going to waste my time trying. Lean bulks and cuts are easy and effective.
>>76698897I did yeah.
>>76698904>no apparent gain in muscle mass>reduced bodyfatCongrats on looking better but my dude you didn't build any muscle, all you did was lose bodyfat. Look at your biceps in both pictures. Your traps. They're exactly the same.
>>76698922Delts visibly grew. And basically if someone that's already built a bit can exploit body recomp like that, surely a beginner will get even better results in spite of the deficit.
I look better then op
>>76698764I'm gonna give my experience as someone who has been lifting for 3+ years as a natty. It's not that much experience, but it's more valuable to you than of someone too advanced or enhanced. The answer is that it depends. I've been able to increase my strength during a steep cut by optimizing everything about my routine and diet. The problem is that this optimization varies from person to person. What I mean by that is that what works for me isn't necessarily gonna work for you. For example, when training my lats during a cut I have a much easier time keeping my strength with supported rows than doing it with bent knees. For my mate that doesn't matter at all. You should utilize your first 1~2 years of lifting to learn what works and what doesn't for your genetics, after that you can start optimizing as necessary. That being said, there are universal practices that will always improve your muscle retention during a cut, like avoiding stress, getting a good amount of sleep, eating a lot of carbs during lifting days, training each muscle at least 2x times a week, keeping your protein intake high, taking maintenance breaks when necessary etc. Of course, once you get more advanced cutting becomes harder and slower, but you shouldn't worry about it now and once you get there you make up for it with experience.
>>76698928I'm just scrolling by, but no, your delts did not visibly grow. They're easier to see is all.
>>76698764>He is skinnyfat, doesn't lift and wants no BS NO MEMERY on things that concern people that lift for years
>>76698928no they didnt lol
>>76698935why do you keep posting your 6/10 physique in every thread?
if you're really fat, yes. if you're on roids, yes. if you're new to lifting, yes.you can mix and match any of these 3
>>76698764Yes but to get that big you need steroids and other drugs
>>76701098What the fuck are you talking about?OP posted pretty much exactly natty peak.The fact that it is natty peak means it would take an insane amount of hard work to get there, but yes it is possible without gear.>>76698764OP, good job actually getting started. I belieb in u.Maintenance is just the calories/macros you need to stay at (maintain) the same weight.If you want to gain or lose weight, you should be eating above or below those numbers.Don’t forget how important protein intake is when you’re trying to bulk.You need 1g/lb of (lean mass) bodyweight (so assuming you’re 25% bf, do your bodyweight x0.75 and then you’ll figure out how much of you is lean mass- if this math makes sense to you it is easy to apply to other bf percentages)It is going to take a whole lot of fucking work to look like your picrel, don’t get too dissuaded though.You sound motivated.I remember when I made my first gains and was finally happy looking at my body in the mirror for the first time ever.If that hasn’t happened yet, it’s right around the corner.Stoked for you, mane.
>>76698764To get the answer to your question, you must ask God.
of course, but it's impossible to gain WEIGHT on a deficit
>>76698922Nigga, on deficit you lose a shit ton of muscle. The guy not only mantained, he grew slightly too. Sure, if he went full tren twins and ate 4000 kcals of trash food while lifting he would have gained a lot more of muscle mass. Kys crab
>>76701078>if you're on roids, yesno, you cant>but muh high dose trenMaybe, but I doubt those claims too.People mistake temporary acute strength gains and cosmetic effects from tren as building muscle mass. And losing body fat always makes muscles look bigger.
>>76698764Yes
>>76701350>Nigga, on deficit you lose a shit ton of musclesteroids prevent, or at least minimize this and that mutt probably aint natty
>>76698764If you are a beginner yes but it's better to eat at maintenance which will allow you to build muscle and lose fat at the same time but at a slower rate, this is called body recomposition.Whenever you finish your bulk just eat at maintenance and increase cardio, no need for cutting.
>>76698764I'll make it easy for you anon:You cannot build muscle mass on a deficit.But you can build strength if you keep up your protein. Your body will utilize "free floating" protein in your system before it breaks down muscle. Maintenance can be easy.However you'll find it difficult to gain size and mass without excess calories. You'll get stronger, but the benefits of gaining strength are limited versus gaining muscle mass.Hope this helps.
do NOT bulk. it is not necessary to grow muscle. you can maingain
>>76698764This AI physique would require steroids for 95% of people. Even then, you'd need to be pumped & at the tail-end of a cut to look like this ("stage-ready") after 2-3 years of dialled-in lifting.Don't overcomplicate it, be consistent with good diet, exercise (google these things), sleep, getting outdoors, and in under a year you'll have a great physique compared to most.
>>76701437>This AI physique would require steroids for 95% of people.Despite being a massive population, indians like you don't make 95% of the entire world population.
>>76698780I think this is it. My question is, if carb levels aren't high enough what's the downside if I've got enough energy anyway? I did get an exertion headache at failure on my last set today. Could that be related? If carbs are too low will it negatively impact muscle growth?
>>76700171He mogs you retard
>>76698764Only if you're a newbie, like never lifted weight your whole life.
>>76698764No. End of discussion.
>>76698764No, it's hard enough on a surplus.>>76698904This guy is on steroids and roiding for this.
>>76706762>this guy roids>but he doesn't look the part>therefore roiding for thisOccam's razor moment.
>>76706773Pretty sure I've seen him post that he's roiding and he does look like it, just doesn't have a lot of muscle for it.
>>76707549Pretty sure he didn't since he's me.
>>76698764I've heard many people say its impossible and yet I've never seen a single person actually explain why.
>>76698764I'm literally on tren and it doesn't work.
>>76707749>im literally a cheater and I don't know what I'm doingWoah...
>>76698764Yes, but if you have to ask you're too retarded to do it properly. Not only that but a bulk and a cut is simply the fastest way to get to an aesthetic physique. Your unimpressive body will be unimpressive for an extra 4 months and then 4 months after that you'll have the thing you wanted all along.
>>76700171because i'm proud of the body i've built as a trans man
>>76698855I've found if you lift weights and eat enough protein then yes you will build muscle on a deficit. Bulking when you're already 20%+ bf is fucking retarded, don't bulk unless you're like 10% bf
>>76698764As long as you have adequate protein intake to grow muscle but low enough fats you burn your own, yes. That's called recomposition and has been known for a long time. Carbs can be utilized as you feel and what it does to the mirror image.
>>76708597Not saying carbs don't have calories obviously so work your diet as you should
Why do we bulk and cut for so long. Seem to me you could bulk for a month and then cut for a month. Only fluctuating our body weight 10 pounds or whatever to recomp. Absolutely no logical reason against this has ever been presented
>>76698764>refeed when fresh for lifting either like half a day or about a week depending on fast cut vs keeping muscle massYoure practically a a surplus after almost any meal so lift hard then eat if maximizing fat loss.
>>76698936Yeah i find when hard cutting its most beneficial to keep intensity down and lift a ton without getting any muscle to 100% wear as it wont be rebuilding unless you bulk or only for kess than an hour after any given meal once youre back at a deficit.
>>76708611>why are refeeds importantGo run a 5k or more every day see what it does for fat stores activating finding a new water source mode(lowers test and all beneficial bodily systems for preserving and vuikding muscle). Keep bmr high, you can eat 1000+ calorie meals then protein and carbs before bed, youd just need to do heavy compounds to deplete glycogen and burn calories. Your bmr literally halves from peak bulk to weeks into a cut with no refeed. If you ever bulked insanely hard youd know how easy it is to lift twice in a day and eat 4k+cals average and not gain a pound for months.
>>76698764You asian men fuck a lot of pussy
>>76698764I wouldn't really bother trying the whole "building muscle on a deficit." shtick. A slow controlled bulk over several years is what you want to do until you finally cut. So, the best thing you can do for yourself is to knock out as much bodyfat as you can, approaching 10 percent or so, while not worrying too much bout diet (but still keeping a good macro/micro nutrient profile in order to prevent injury). Best form of cardio would be jumping rope and boxing. Good luck.
>>76698764Yes but you won't notice it because you won't be storing additional glycogen. Protein builds muscle and cannot store as fat. To lose fat you need to avoid fat and carbs. So eat extra protein, less fat and very little to no carbs. You can build muscle fibers while losing fat. You won't see much size gain because again you won't be able to bloat up your muscles with glycogen, which is carbs. But you will get stronger and be able to store more glycogen (gain size) when you start eating balanced again.
>>76698764Yes as a natty, under specific conditions and not to a significant degree.You have to be a beginner and it's faster to just cut more aggressively (and slow down a bit after 15%) and lift, then bulk slowly from 10%-12%bf instead of cutting near maintenance for months and maybe getting a fraction of your noob gains.If you had to lose let's say 12kgs of bf, as the average skinnyfat 20%bf guy that wants to get to 10%-12%bf it would take you 7 months at -500kcal and more than a year at -250.Or you could cut aggressively while lifting for three months, slow down a little towards the end, end up near 10%-12% bf and slow bulk from there.You will have a better base, bf range and hormonal profile to play with and pack on mass in half the time that you would have been spinning your wheels.
>>76708734>best form of cardio would be jumping rope and boxingwhy do you say this? just curious
>>76698764Yes, I lost like 5 lbs while gaining +20 reps on my setsI've never seen anyone cite any sources or a mechanism for "building muscle is impossible on a deficit", though I may contend it's more difficult (though I even dispute this)
>>76698764If you have enough fat, yes.
>>76708485I had a 300kg natural deadlift. I bench 200kg and deadlift 360kg now. The fact you think you can cut and gain means you're literally a noob. It doesn't work for actual serious guys.
>>76698928No they didn't, the fat loss just made the delts pop.
>>76709679My bench press went up while i was cutting.
>>76709679>>76710309Yes, retards, that's normal and is mostly CNS adaptations.
>>76710706>CNS adaptationsSorry anon I didn't have that much muscle starting off for it to be "CNS adaptations"
>>76698764Just refeed for anywhere from 2 meals to a whole week(more like up to 3-4 days) and lift hard to lose the surplus asap.
>>76702713you sure you got an exertion headache? they take like 2 weeks to go away.
