CICOfags believe that 2500kcal of sugar is just as healthy as 2500kcal of actual food.

>>76742096
No they don't, you fucking retard.

>>76742096
no they dont, they just think that you will be the same weight after 2500kcal of sugar vs. actual food

>>76742102
I wish you retards ate 2500kcal of sugar in a day to prove that you really believe this shit.

>>76742071
What isn't healthy is the fast food version of that, simple as. Your pic is literally a sandwich which is a normal food and has been for thousands of years. But the goyslop version includes unprompted sugar & tranny fats

>>76742101
Yes you do.
Don't forget to backpedal into
>durr thermodynamics bro
don't remember asking, lets talk about stuff that matters.

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>lettuce
>does nothing
>meat
>good
>(white) bread
>grain sludge filled with empty carbs and antinutrients
>tomtatoes
>a fruit, good, as long as home grown and not sprayed with carcirogenic pesticides

>>76742116
Post body. I triple fucking dog dare you.

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>>76742165
I didn't make any claims, therefore I don't have to.

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>>76742120
>antinutrients
THIS NIGGA DOESN'T DRINK ANY FUCKING WATER KEKEKEKEKEK

Well, if you actually make a burger from the left ingredients, it's the same. But those burgers are made from an extremely processed bread, meat mixed with onions, copious amount of a high calorie souce. Nutritional value significantly decreases, while tye calorie intake increases by a lot.
And no, I think cico is retarded. Ops pic is actaully a good example how tge food providing the same satiety can differ by a colorie coubt almost double. Just counting calories won't work in a long term.

>>76742181
He avatarfags as a cuck who tried to make everyone of his race including himself infertile, should tell you everything you needed to know.

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>>76742183
Why are CICOfags so mentally ill that they have go online and lie when nobody else does that?
How can food with more macros be less nutritious? Even candy is more nutritious than salads that mentally ill anorexic women eat, because there's nothing more nutritionally valuable than carbs mixed with fat, if it can make you obese from eating what seems like not a lot, it's a sign of overly high nutrition, but CICOfags...
Never take CICOfags seriously, they make shit up like that then never post body, because it's always some DYEL skeleton who lost fat by starving and walking 10k a day.

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>>76742071
I love burgers so much bros
>t. Obviously American

>>76742107
Wasn't there a famous study where a guy lost weight eating only twinkies and multivitamins?

>>76742096
>CICOfags believe that 2500kcal of sugar is just as healthy as 2500kcal of actual food.
CICO deniers, eating 2500cal of sugar:
>this is so unhealthy i wish i had better metabolism curse you god

>>76742289
Yes, because if you eat just sugar, you will lose weight fast, and will likely have very bad side effects that will quickly make you stop or possibly die.
>>76742295
I know that you're a malnourished skeleton, so I won't blame you for not understanding that calories are a worthless metric.
Average lardass can simply substitute slop with real food and eat as much as they want, the problem is they never do, they revert back to slop fast.

CICO denialism is the flat-earth of nutrition.

>>76742317
CICO is worthless, it's as useful as saying that sky is blue to prove that earth isn't flat.
It doesn't explain why the sky is blue, or how is that relevant to the shape of the earth.

>>76742114
>Thousands of years
Get a load of this retard
>The invention of the sandwich is attributed to John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, in 1762

>>76742323
Calories are the only relevant metric when it comes to weight gain or loss, not nutrition in general. Obviously you can't boil all of nutrition down to just CICO.

>>76742378
Calories are never relevant, I eat protein, carbs, and fats, not made up calorimeter bomb unit which can also measure kerosene to be calorically dense for my body even if I cannot digest it for some reason.
Saddest part by far is that I can't know quality of fat, carbs and protein I eat when I look at it in the store, so I just look in the mirror and adjust that way, not with made up nonsense.

>>76742193
Do you understand that there are micronutrient? Fucking carbs isn't the only thing your body wants to get from food. You are hubgry untill you have satifies all your needs in nutrient: carbs, protein, fats, vitamins, elements, etc.

>>76742405
>smartest CICOtard doesn't understand how satiety works
I can induce it in myself by drinking a liter of water, should I consume nothing but water then? Fucking retard.

>>76742071
Runners eat like 4000 calories of pasta and their body fat is in the single digits.
>b-but they burn it!
Yeah, MAYBE 1000 calories on a long run. Bread may as well be poison to certain people, same with nuts. Both are far too easily eaten while having an absurd amount of calories.

>>76742071
The one on the right is full of seed oils. Also, the ground beef is probably like 60-40 but the meat on the right looks like a steak.

Nigga you're comparing apples to oranges.

>>76742424
>ground beef
if bull testicles and foreskins can be called beef

>>76742317

Based on this thread, CICO deniers are mid-wits

>>76742096
Nope. CICO supporters like me do not talk about health. We talk about weight. And yes, 2500kcal of sugar will make you just as fat as 2500kcal of "actual food" (whatever that means)

>>76742071
Burgers aren't unhealthy, at least when you cook them yourself and can be sure what's in them. The real problem with them is portion sizes, and probably whatever you're eating with your burger in the same meal. You have to go out of your way to make a normal sized burger excessive with meme shit like maple syrup.

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>>76742071
forgetting the most important ingredient?

>Auhm calories in and out don't work for me because auhm, my body gets energy from the magical aether and such!
>>76742455
This.

It is endlessly depressing how these threads show up every single day and you can tell by the mannerisms and linguistic tendencies of the responders and posters that it's the same people getting memed into rage bait over and over again that keep these threads at the top of the catalog.

>>76742460
Even mcdonalds used to use beef tallow

>>76742455
>>76742476
I challenge you to do nothing but sugar and tap water challenge for a month at 100kcal above your maintenance and show us all that you gained weight and totally didn't waste away, you can stop anytime if you admit that you were wrong and want to save your last fiber of muscle and braincells that you might still have.

I'll assume that CICOtards aren't willing to put their body on the line for this one, because I am right, kek.

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>>76742071

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>>76742289
>Wasn't there a famous study where a guy lost weight eating only twinkies and multivitamins?
It wasn't a study, it was a stunt by a Professor of nutrition named Mark Haub back in 2010. He lost 27 lbs in 8 weeks and his food consisted of "Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos".

But not only that, he also improved most (all?) of his health markers too (among them, a whopping 10% (!!!) reduction in body fat), so whatever he ate before this twinkie diet, it was much more unhealthy than literally living exclusively on refined sweets. Allegedly, he claimed his "before diet" was the typical "healthy" diet of "whole grains, dietary fiber, berries and bananas, vegetables and occasional treats like pizza". Just not controlled for calories. This is his claim.

Does that sound believable? Not exactly, in fact, it sounds like complete bullshit, especially sicne tha math just doesn't check out (A 700 calorie reduction over 70 days means a 22 lbs loss, not a 27 lbs loss and with that reduction in body fat, the weight loss didn't come from water weight either). But you Americans believe anything that's online anyway and still quote it after over a decade of the thing never having been replicated (in fact, I have seen some guys on here quoting fucking Supersize Me form the 00s as if it was some super secret documentary).

Anyway, tl;dr: here's an article about it. Surprisingly hard to find any good info since the whole thing is so old.

>>76744379
>CICOtard learns that calories don't matter in strict definition of WEIGHT loss
>No, the empirical evidence is wrong, human body is a 100% efficient bomb calorimeter and there's no other factors!
kek

>>76744382
>empirical evidence
There is none in this case, we only have his suspicious claims and no one ever repeated it. If you really want to blindly believe that, go ahead, I won't.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=U3fbTXUAAAAJ&hl=en
https://www.hhs.k-state.edu/health-sciences/about/people/haub

Seems to be this guy. Look him up yourself, don't just believe every fucking thign you read online.

>>76744389
Nobody ever repeated it because CICO is a dogshit and worthless factoid that doesn't help generally unhealthy person to gain independence from retarded faggots like you trying to sell them slop they don't need when the real cure is free.
Remember that professors are autistic as fuck and only a severe case of autism can allow someone to exist for 2 months on such dogshit diet, he probably didn't know what it's like not to be hungry for entire time of his meme diet.

>>76744394
Stop eating

>>76742419
No, you can't

>>76742419
And go ahead, patent water as an appetite suppressant. Those imbiciles are all using shit like wegovy, while they could just drink water. Imgaine how rich you get with such a genius idea. Imagine people paying hundreds of dollars per month to a bug pharma, when they can open they tap and drink gallons of water...

>>76744450
Tell me more about what I feel or don't feel.
>>76744449
There are faster and less painful ways to kill myself.
>>76744455
I'm not jewish.

>>76744379
He took a multivitamin during the Twinkie diet.

Why do CICOtards get so mad when you tell them that calorie counting is retarded?
Nobody seriously believes that replacing protein with fat and sugar is going to be just as healthy since it's same calories, do they? There are many mental illnesses, but this variety is by far the worst.
Most extreme diet I ever did was chicken and broccoli with nothing else, and I didn't count calories, I just hit my baseline macros to maintain muscle, get a load of these DYEL skeletons starving themselves because "more efficient, CICO said so" lmao.

>>76744477
>Nobody seriously believes that replacing protein with fat and sugar is going to be just as healthy
Dear retard, pls see attached comment. Pls & thx.
>>76742455

>>76744477
>just as healthy
CICO is about weight. We all know that not everything gets digested and converted to body fat, but if you don't eat it it never does.

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>>76744484
And that's why CICO is worthless and retarded, because according to dishonest retarded believers of CICO, going starvation mode and losing as much water and muscle and bone mass as possible is fine, since only weight and calories matter, your health does not.

>>76744389
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri's_fast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
But I guess because these are online one shouldn't believe what they read. CICO inducing weight loss is extremely well studied.

>>76744493
>>76744499
Lmao, beautiful timing.

>>76744477
>hit my baseline macros
wait why do you think macros work, but calories dont lol

>>76744510
Because chicken and broccoli with a dash of olive oil (which is an actual extreme depletion diet that will make you wanna die) isn't water and sugar, retarded subhuman.

>>76744513
>actual extreme depletion diet that will make you wanna die
oh lol, post physique

>>76744516
When asking to post physique, remember to attach your own, unless you have something to hide.

>>76744518
Concession accepted

>>76744522
ok DYEL tranny, don't forget to take ozempic tonight

>>76744513
>with a dash of olive oil
You don't lift.

>>76744537
I also am not the one who invented this diet, so ok, go on, yap more, lil yapper.
Don't forget to insert an ad for some gay calorie counting app like you always do.

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>>76742096
>healthy
Wrong term, that's not what CICO believes.
This is what CICO believes:
If you eat 3000kcal of sugar you will gain 1lb assuming your natural metabolic burn rate is 0.
If you eat 3000kcal of actual food you will gain 1lb assuming your natural metabolic burn rate is 0.
If you eat 3000kcal of anything your body can properly digest and absorb you will gain 1lb assuming your natural metabolic burn rate is 0.

1lb of fat 3000 calories. Somehow someway you must have a calorie deficit of 3000 in order to make this 1lb of fat go away. It doesn't matter what you eat. You still have to lose the 3000 calories somewhere.

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>>76742769
You are the one making the insane claim.
Instead we can do things easily with not so insane claims and prove CICO.

>eat 1500 calorie diet
>lose weight
>eat 2500 calorie diet using the same foods
>gain weight
CICO Deniers response?
>YOU HAVE TO DO SOME INSANE ALL SUGAR DIET IN ORDER TO PROVE YOUR BELIEFS ARE REAL
okay bro

>>76744557
>If you eat 3000kcal of sugar you will gain 1lb
Yet in reality, you will lose weight and waste away.
CICO doesn't work.

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>>76744499
>After 1 year and 26 days without food, Angus Barbieri ate his first solid meal at 10 AM on 11 July 1966: a boiled egg and a slice of buttered bread.
based
>After 3 years, Angus Barbieri returned to a similar size of 430 pounds (200 kg).
lol he really loved food

>>76742107
why would i do that? its unhealthy. i just eat a balance of macros and stay at my calorie target. do you niggas really think its more complicated than that?

>>76744578
If you had a balance of macros, calories would be irrelevant. Congratulations, you have an eating disorder.
>>76744571
Proof that "just eat less" isn't a solution. Eating less doesn't work, it's like telling a crack addict to do less crack. Fundamental issue is doing crack and no, it wasn't caused by crack itself.

>>76744578
yes, they do. why do you think they're fat? they'll blame literally anything and everything except their own personal accountability, because then it's someone else's fault they're obese rather than their own

>>76744630
I was never obese, I weighed 89kg at most.
Some visceral fat was the least of my problems and I'm not yet done fixing them all still years later, you're a disingenuous retard with a mental illness.

>>76744629
>CICO doesn't work because *checks notes* Angus lost weight on fewer calories... wait....um....*checks notes* AHA! He regained his weight when he ate more, proving that CICO doesn't work! *eats hamburger* fucking CICOtards

>>76744643
If eating like a pig for 8 months and then starving for 4 months works for you, I'm not gonna blame you, but I won't stop calling you a DYEL loser.

>>76744646
the topic of this thread is CICO, and you said "eating less" doesn't work. it does. the problem is will power.

>>76744648
If you had willpower, you'd fix your mental illness instead of telling others to be as mentally ill as you.
Simply eating less doesn't fix your mental illness, it simply reframes it.
And you know, I really cannot stress enough that you're mentally ill and you have to fix your mental illness before you go online and tell others what to do with their body.

>>76744655
What makes counting calories more mentally ill than counting macros?
Also, resorting to psychobabble is a clear sign that you know you lost the argument. Pack it up, CICO W.

>>76744629
>If you had a balance of macros, calories would be irrelevant
wait do you niggas seriously believe that you can eat 20,000 calories in a day so long as 1/3 are carbs, 1/3 are fat, and 1/3 are protein? i thought you were trolling

>>76744655
>obese hammonster telling others they're mentally ill
Peak /fit/ comedy. Tell your doctor to prescribe you ozemPIG!

>>76744662
Counting macros is done by people who don't have an eating disorder and want to make the most out of their body instead of withering away in attempt to
>lose weight
which is, semantically speaking, an asinine goal, and a proof of mental illness.
>>76744682
Fat people aren't hammonsters, ham is made of muscle, not fat, this inability to differentiate between the two is just more proof that CICOtards are severely mentally ill.
>>76744666
>1/3 of each
That's a retarded ratio, but I can't blame you since you know nothing about macros, which is fine, you're mentally ill after all.

>>76744687
this nigga is eating 20,000 calories a day and is still confused why hes fat

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>>76744655
>it's mentally ill to be healthy, and i am sane because i overcomplicate my weight *munches on doritos* go to therapy

>>76744687
>stop calling me a hammonster that's not my preferred nomenclature
Kek do fats really? You're ngmi without the 'pig btw.

>>76744687
By counting macros you are by definition also counting calories, unless you think the only thing that matters is the ratio of one macro to the other and the overall quantity doesn't matter, which is s position too stupid to be credible.

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>>76744693
I just imagined most calorie dense food I can think of, and no, I couldn't eat 20kkcal of it in a day, stop projecting your mental illness.
>>76744695
It's unhealthy to destroy little muscle that you still had by prioritizing weight loss over fat loss.
>>76744699
Calories are a shit metric and I don't count them, if you weren't a DYEL, you'd know this.

>>76744702
Does the quantity of each macro matter or not?

>>76744710
No, not really, I just drink kerosene when bulking, works according to CICO.

>>76744702
>prioritizing weight loss over fat loss.
you just admitted you don't lift. post body.

>>76744715
What that sentence means is the opposite of what you saw in your head, ESLnigger.
You clearly aren't doing your macros right, your brain can't even process a single English sentence.

>>76744714
That's like saying car engines should be able to run on crayons because they're hydrocarbons. After all, engines work by combusting hydrocarbons. Engines don't work on crayons therefore engines don't work on gasoline. See where you fucked up?

>>76744571
Where are you getting that? The wiki page says
>and a 1973 study found that Barbieri maintained a healthy weight of 196 pounds (89 kg) concluding that "prolonged fasting in this patient had no ill-effects"

>>76744726
>That's like saying car engines should be able to run on crayons because they're hydrocarbons.
They do, according to CICO.
Luckily I'm not mentally ill and as per my last email, CICO spamming = mental illness.

OP knows he's wrong and is resorting to ragebaiting because his pride won't allow him to concede. Just let this thread die.

>>76744720
>doing your macros
ayo dis nigga so traumatized by his failed diets he can't even say "count" lmao

>>76744732
Nope, it's a fun thread, it's really funny to me when some retard implies that people count calories in their car instead of just knowing how many liters per 100 km, lmaoing hard today.

>>76744733
95% of diets fail, but CICO is great

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>>76744741
skill issue

>>76744754
You're simply mentally ill.

>>76744761
I accept your concession. Gym time for me. enjoy your thread, fatty

>>76744763
I also go to the gym, but I don't count lifting weights as calories out since I'm not mentally ill.

>>76742120
>grain sludge filled with empty carbs and antinutrients
If youre american. euro bread is actually good for you in moderation.

>>76744379
Who knew, losing 27lbs of extra fat does more for your body than a "healthy" fatso diet

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>>76744629
>>76744728
I was making a joke. He didn't return to his obese size. Sorry fatty, I made it up. Overeating is a behavioral issue, not a food issue.

>>76742102

Which has consistently been proven to be false kek

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5786199/

>>76745212
Delete this, CICOfags cannot handle this much.

>>76744566
Lol ok

>>76742096
Worse, cicotards believe that running 1 kilometer burns the same amount of calories as walking 1 kilometer

>>76745254
That's funny, because CICOspam is targeted at people who are too fat to run 1km

>>76745259
>non-sequitur
let me guess, all you do everyday is shitpost online?

>>76742102
No actual CICO adherent discounts the value of balanced macros. For some reason antiCICOcels always trot this strawman out like it's some kind of gotcha, but yeah, no shit you're better off eating properly. Welcome to 3rd grade.

>>76745287
CICO is a worthless factoid that's completely asinine and orthogonal to macros.
If you count macros right, you don't need calories, ever.
It's also easier to count macros, so counting calories is just pointless overabstraction that solves 0 problems and benefits noone.
Why would I care if I ate 500kcal meal or 5000kcal meal?
Why would I give a shit how many calories 4g of carbs is?
I have set target of macro in grams, and that's enough. But let me guess, keeping 3 numbers in your head which actually benefit you, because you will be concerned if you ate too much sugar and fat and too little protein unlike "2000kcal", is too difficult for you, little autist.

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How do yall keep falling for this obvious bait?

>>76745167
What’s the joke?

>>76745307
>>After 3 years, Angus Barbieri returned to a similar size of 430 pounds (200 kg).

>>76745297
>Why would I care if I ate 500kcal meal or 5000kcal meal?
Because if you eat 5000 calories of food in a day you gain 1lb of fat.
If you eat 500 calories of food in a day then you would lose about a half pound of fat.

>>76745297
Hey man, you should know that if you're counting macros then you're counting calories already.
>4kcal / gram of carbs
>4kcal / gram of brotein
>9kcal / gram of fat
Just because you don't finish the equation doesnt mean you're not doing the exact same thing a calorie counter is doing.

Essentially, you're the operator looking at the raw code of the Matrix, but you're still trying to tell Neo the steak.

>>76745346
*sell
>tell Neo the steak lmao
>hey, hey Neo!
>yeah what's up morpheus?
>nothing man, just, the steak
>wat
>the steak

>>76745319
Yeah not where is the joke, what is it? Like, how is it humorous?

>>76745346
>4kcal / gram of protein
Sorry, but this isn't how my body works, my body uses most of protein for building new muscle, not for starvation level source of energy, fuck off.

>>76745450
It literally doesn't matter. The conversion for counting calories doesn't care what you do with the macros, only how much of them you take in. Counting macros is literally counting calories.

Or do you believe the weather is different depending on whether you use Celsius or Fahrenheit?

>>76745450
>using protein for building new muscle
That's calories out, dumbass.

>>76745480
>broooo, protein burns calories out of the sudden now!
Oh so now you're gonna tell me to eat more instead of eat less? Make up your mind, CICOtard.

>>76742096
>healthy
CICO is about weight not health. People have lost weight eating nothing but twinkies or McDonald’s to prove the point on calories. They didn’t claim it was healthy.

However if you are not fat, you will be healthier.

>>76745603
I don't give a fuck about weight, it's not a metric, fuck off faggot.

>>76745244
He's right, look at almost any fruitarian. Same happens with only eating protein btw (Rabbit starvation).

>>76742421
>be active
>burn a lot of calories through exercise
>have higher BMR because of high activity
>be shocked serious runners are thin
What are you trying to prove besides you being retarded?

>>76744379
> in fact, I have seen some guys on here quoting fucking Supersize Me form the 00s as if it was some super secret documentary)
Who quotes anything about that? The guy ate a lot of McDonald’s, more than his TDEE, and gained weight. What’s the surprise there?

It was a hit piece he lied about anyway.

>>76745613
Higer BMR thorugh what? Reduced muscle mass via endurance running? Stop coping. CICO is bullshit.

Or bulk on active coal tablets, good luck.

>>76744477
> Most extreme diet I ever did was chicken and broccoli with nothing else
>why did this low calorie diet make me lose weight
>reeeee CICOfags are so retarded
You already know broccoli and chicken are both very low calorie. You can’t physically eat enough to get fat. Thanks for proving CICO correct I guess.

>>76745622
He ate 5k calories daily for like a month and gained 25 lbs/11.3 kg. Wanna do the math on that? Let's say there's a reason that just like the infamous Twinkie diet, nobody ever replicated his experiment.

>>76745633
I don't know if they're low calorie, all I know is that they're low fat and carbs, because again, I only care about macros, I couldn't give a single fuck about calories.
CICO is worthless, irrelevant, and only works if you use macros. Basically, it's redundant, redditor dunning kruger tool to waste everyone's time.

>>76745646
How about rewrite it as a list of food items he ate or at least provide numbers that describe protein, fat and carbs, because "5k calories" means fucking nothing.

>>76745484
Obviously not, Dumbass-Anon. I don't even know how you drew a line from what I said to what you said. I'll break it down real easy for you, and you still won't understand it because you're too stupid.

>anything you eat falls under calories in
You're not allowed to debate this. I feel like you will anyway, somehow, but just don't. Things that go into your body are consider as going into your body.

Now here's the hard part, but try to keep up.
>any calorie used or excreted falls under the only remaining category: calories out
This includes everything. Energy burned for exercise, unused macronutrients passed out in your poop because you ate too much that day and your body couldn't use or store it all quickly enough, excess energy that's converted to body fat, and yes, the protein used to build and maintain muscle.
It's easy, but I somehow doubt you'll understand. Any excess macronutrient taken in up to the limit of your body's ability to process before it gets pooped out gets converted to mass. The quality of that mass depends on the balance of macronutrients (carbs vs fats vs proteinsl and the demands you've been placing on your system (exercise).

This is officially a more respectful response than you deserve. Go eat a bowl full of shit - I hear that's got more protein than you'd guess.

>>76745674
>You're not allowed to debate this.
I stopped reading your shitty post there, I can debate whatever I want for any reason whatsoever, and here's what I think about your shitty worthless post: thermodynamics are irrelevant for the purpose of being healthy and fit. There's no single instance where "losing weight" is a primary goal, unless you're mentally ill or fucking retarded.

>>76745683
>claims to not have read the post
So you're either living with your head in the sand or you're a liar.
>claims thermodynamics don't apply
Teach me your ways, oh magical one.
>claims nobody that wasn't deranged ever wanted to just lose weight
Well that's just plain objectively false.
>fails to address any points made
I'll accept that as your admission of defeat. GG Dumbass-Anon!

>>76745709
>>claims thermodynamics don't apply
This is not what I claim, fuck off malnourished ESLnigger.

>>76745713
This is literally what you said:
>thermodynamics are irrelevant

I should also point out, I never mentioned thermodynamics until you did. Odd choice of strawman to fight against a basic tenet of the universe, but then this whole interaction has been nonsensical on your side.

>>76744878
>crushed up seeds (you know, the part of the plant that it least wants you to eat) is good for you

>>76745738
Yes, thermodynamics are irrelevant here, you read that right, ESLnigger.

>>76744629
> Proof that "just eat less" isn't a solution. Eating less doesn't work, it's like telling a crack addict to do less crack
Skill issue. Quite literally.

It’s hilarious you say it doesn’t work in response to it being shown to work. In both losing and gaining weight by the same guy.

>>76745797
Good for you that you lived a sheltered life, but not everyone is like you, not that you'd know a thing about people when you're a retarded autist.

>>76745749
Well for starters you're wrong, but why harp on this? I didn't bring it up, nor did I care to debate it - I didn't need to.

Oh, wait, I know. It's because you can't argue against anything else I've said so you're trying to move the whole thing to a topic you feel you can have a chance of competing on.

And I know that'll happen next - I'll beat you on this one and you'll move to something else without addressing anything I say.

>thermodynamics is relevant because it is integral to the calories out phase of the equation. Your ability to metabolise "muh protein" into muscle depends on the universal constants governing the chemical reactions that are at the heart of every single thing that happens in your body, of which thermodynamics is a major player. It doesn't even matter if you believe in CICO - you've already said you need to eat protein to gain muscle, which is a direct result of chemical processes governed in large part by thermodynamics.

Ok, your turn. Where are we headed next?

>>76745821
I'm never wrong, thermodynamics are irrelevant.
It's an interesting factoid for sure, especially if you're autistic, but real goal of anyone should be functioning as a human being and being healthy, at which point thermodynamics become so irrelevant, that you never have to know calories of anything you eat.

>>76744655
Post body tubby

>>76744687
> That's a retarded ratio, but I can't blame you since you know nothing about macros,
Cool. Enlighten us what the proper ratio of macros would be for a 20,000 calorie a day diet

>>76744732
You’re right but I still like making fun of fat retards

>>76742367
>bread with stuff in it was invented by some british royal faggot
sure

>>76745835
Depends on what you use your body for, retard.
Again, I won't disagree that none of this matters if you're happy being a skeleton, but I'm not happy with being a skeleton.

>>76745212
>>76745224
>Body comp == body mass
Retards lol

>>76745254
But they don’t? Exercising harder burns more calories. Show me one CICO proponent than says walking and running are the same.

>>76745844
Body mass bears 0 significance to one's life, a 6'5 guy can be twice your weight and healthier than you, skeleton.
>>76745846
I exercise to be stronger, not to burn imaginary units not proven by any real science.

>>76745607
Post body tubby

>>76742102
>they just think that you will be the same weight after 2500kcal of sugar vs. actual food
>>76745212
>Which has consistently been proven to be false kek
Meanwhile, if you spend 30 seconds reading the abstract and the introduction we find
>Although it is well established that overfeeding causes weight gain
>overfeeding causes weight gain
>Well established
Reminder that denialists of CICO are so beyond retarded that they'll cite studies that contradict their stance

>>76745297
>you count macros right
And how exactly is one supposed to count macros correctly? They begin with an amount of protein consistent with the body weight (CICO) that they want.

>>76745859
Lean muscle mass isn't bodyweight, retarded ESLnigger.

>>76745646
> He ate 5k calories daily for like a month and gained 25 lbs/11.3 kg. Wanna do the math on that?
Yes.
>3000 calorie surplus
>30 days in a month
>90,000 calorie surplus
>roughly 3,500 calories per pound of fat
>90,000/3,500 = 25.7 pounds
Fatties filtered by elementary school math once again

>>76745802
I didn’t know not being a glutton and not smoking crack was being “sheltered”. Especially considering 99.99% of humans that ever lived didn’t have those problems and lived rougher lives for most of history. Huh.

You’re looking to blame anyone but yourself, fatty.

>>76745869
You're so sheltered that you can't even figure out what I'm insinuating without explicitly saying it.
Whcih makes sense, since you aren't licensed to give health advice to people who actually need it.

>>76745862
Lol

>>76745830
Aha, I see, yes. I didn't anticipate this strategy. You're not even moving the goal post now, you're just doubling down on the same point without offering any new defense. The ol' "curl into a ball and hope the kicking stops" strategy. Courageous of you!

In order to be a functional, healthy human being, you need to maintain a functional, healthy body, yes?

Doing so would be best served by understanding how that body responds to what you eat, yes?

And that understanding would be well served by learning that protein takes more energy to break down, thus a higher protein diet will both help keep your muscles fed and your belly full, yes?

Protein takes more energy to digest because of the thermodynamics involved. Thus, understanding that more protein is more gooder is literally applying the lessons of thermodynamics to your diet. Yes.

>>76745842
I bet this sounded smart in your head. Olympic swimmers don’t eat more than 12,000 calories when competing and training their heaviest. There is no possible combination of macros and training for 20,000 calories and make you not fat.

Answer the question faggot.

>>76745646
>nobody ever replicated his experiment.
I did. I followed the college ramen and candy diet. Lost 15 lbs in one semester. My secret? I ate less.

>>76745848
> I exercise to be stronger
Sure you do. You also completely dodged the question. I accept your defeat.

>>76745848
>Body mass bears 0 significance to one's life
Meanwhile bmi is strongly correlation with hazard ratios

>>76745872
I’m saying both fatties and druggies are looking for someone else to blame for their own faults because they are allergic to responsibility. There are millions of well off people who never had “struggles” and are fat or druggies. There are millions of poor as shit and who were raised by retards that didn’t end up fat.

So go on, keep telling yourself you have an excuse and keep being miserable. Your pathetic coping fuels me.

>>76745875
> The ol' "curl into a ball and hope the kicking stops" strategy. Courageous of you!
Kek

>>76745876
How is this relevant to me? I count macros, not imaginary numbers, I don't care if it's 1200 or 12000
>>76745884
BMI only matters to anorexic women. Men in particular use FFMI.
>>76745887
Others, usually their parents, teachers, and in general, everyone around them are to blame, yes.
A person in a good environment won't end up a drug addict or a fatty.
Drug addicts and fatties always come from shittiest places, you will never find someone living in a good place and obese and drug riddled.

>>76742102
this isn't true, all the frutarians eating like 2k calories worth of fruit look incredibly skinny and emaciated, like how you'd expect someone who eats 500cal a day to look

>>76745913
Um sweetie, those particular fruit had different calories, it has nothing to do with 0 protein or fat mkay.

>>76745913
>2k calories worth of fruit
anon... how do i break this to u.... thay arent eating 2kcal of fruit

>>76745909
>How is this relevant to me?
Because it was asked to you and you said 20,000 calories was fine if the macros were. So say what level of activity and macros can support 20,000 calories.
>you will never find someone living in a good place and obese
>he says while half the country is obese
I repeat, keep being miserable and making excuses for your own terrible life decisions. Acting like you have no agency is the mindset of the weak.

>>76745932
NTA but that’s roughly 20 apples. I could eat 20 apples in a day if I’m not having anything else.

>>76745968
Sorry, I don't know what 20000kcal means, nor will ever care. If I was doing physics riddles, I'd be dealing in Joules anyway, have a nice day, retard.

y'all are still arguing with this bait?

>>76746000
In defense of CICOtarded cope, fruitarians don't really have strength to chew them properly.

>>76742460
this plus its brioche bun and not what op posted , desu , maybe its different in the states....

>tfw cant visit Atlanta or Louisiana to eat pop eyes ;,(

>>76746003
you should have seen the water thread that was going on here.... pure savagery ...

>>76746001
>nooooo I won’t answer because that means I’d have to admit I was wrong
Ok
>I don't know what 20000kcal means
Why are you bragging about being retarded?

>>76746039
Sorry that I'm not autistic with hyperfocus on one metric.

>>76745932
it's not hard to get 2000cal worth of fruit

>>76745387
It's funny that retards like you will believe it blindly since it aligns with your preconceived worldview, you are welcome.

>>76745853

> Reminder that denialists of CICO are so beyond retarded that they'll cite studies that contradict their stance

Weight gain in muscle imbecile

> Dietary protein appears to have a protective effect against fat gain during times of energy surplus, especially when combined with resistance training. Therefore, the evidence suggests that dietary protein may be the key macronutrient in terms of promoting positive changes in body composition.

That's why they mention body composition so many times

I genuinelly don't understand why you CICO fags can't comprehend that most healthy men don't want to be skeletons and don't think that's a healthy diet.

If you want to gain muscle with mininal gain in fat - go high protein low carb.

If you want to lose fat without or with minimal loss of muscle - go high protein low carb.

It's that simple retard, just put down the candy bar.

>>76746210
That's 20 apples, dude.

>>76746357
CICOtards all used to be obese so they get so obsessed and defensive over this just like fat retards get obsessed and defensive over being called fat, because they traded bulima for anorexia, same mental illness.

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>>76742096
>CICOfags believe that 2500cals of sugar are the same calories as 2500cals of food

Fixd

>>76742071
If you make it yourself with quality ingredients it's healthy. If you buy fast food slop, it isn't

It's that simple

>>76746357
>>76746377
Samefag

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11 KB PNG

>>76746533
retard

>>76742071
>bromide and chemical laden bread
>Gmo lettuce pissed in Monsanto juice
>Gmo tomato dipped in round up
>beef high is omega 6 from factory farm because it's exclusively fed grain
>half a gallon of ketchup and mayo(oil and egg whipped up until it turns white)

>>76746377
Highest BMI I ever had in my life was 24. Try again, fag

>>76742071
Nobody believes that.
>>76742096
Nobody believes that.

>>76742071
A high quality burger is healthy, it's just the greasy fries or low quality ones that are bad.

Are anti CICO fatties so delusional they won’t concede anything?

>>76742096
CICO as a maxim has never represented a holistic approach to health or even nutrition, much less fitness specific nutrition. You WILL lose weight if you eat a shit ton of sugar but perform enough activity. For me its fairly typically to ride my bike for 70 miles on Sunday, chugging gatorade/soda and eating pounds of candy the whole way, stopping for sweet pastry and pigging out on junk food when I'm done including a half tub of ice cream. The next workday I'll still be punching new holes in my belt.

cico fags are so fucking stupid. Its like we are all discussing strategies to get clean from drugs and some retard in the corner just keeps yelling "IF YOU DONT USE DRUGS YOU WONT BE ADDICTED TO DRUGS".

Like bro we all understand that principle the conversation is a lot more advanced than what you are talking about.

>>76742769
On an all sugar diet you'd be deficient in vitamins and nutrients and you'd end up losing weight because most of the sugar would pass through your body undigested. You'd eat 3000 calories of sugar, but actually only take in like 1000. A better test would be eating a balanced diet of about 1200 calories, then eating 1800 calories of sugar versus eating a balanced diet of 1200 calories, then eating 800 calories of sugar.

>>76747757
CICO doesn't address any of this, it has no nuance, it just reduces a complex problem to a single, irrelevant metric. If you cannot survive on sugar and water to prove CICO usefulness, be my guest, otherwise fuck off, because I'm tired of midwits implying that you can eat anything.

>>76747750
Addictions aren't even real.
>he does drugs because drugs made him to
is fucking asinine niggerbabble, people do drugs for many reasons, but drug itself is never it

>>76747750
>some retard in the corner just keeps yelling "IF YOU DONT USE DRUGS YOU WONT BE ADDICTED TO DRUGS".
You won't believe this, but that's literally how it works.
Meanwhile retards like you believe that if you get the right macros in your drugs you won't be addicted to drugs.

>>76747750
Addiction is literally an IQ filter. I've intentionally gotten myself addicted to benzos, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, hydrocodone and more. Just as a way to see what physiological withdrawal felt like across different drugs. It was a fucking nothing burger dude. That's not to say the symptoms didn't exist. They did. They were nothing near as bad as what these retards call it.

For the record yes I've also experimented with food addictions in both directions. Played the anorexia route to get to 17 BMI. Was super easy and saved so much money. OMAD was the strategy with very light snacking throughout. Even ate until BMI 26 overweight. Dropped back down to 23. All of this was within an 8 month time spam btw.

CICO works, simple as. It only doesn't if you're a weak willed pussy lmao

>>76742071
The bread is different, as is the meat.

>>76746224
Got it

>>76748494
I'm using your analogy against you.
You cannot continue to use drugs to stop your drug addiction.
You have to stop using drugs.
You cannot continue to eat food at the same amounts your used to in order to lose weight.
You have to stop eating food.
You have to limit the amount of calories you are taking in and increasing the amount of calories you are putting out.

>>76747750
Yeah. If you have some self control, or better yet never use drugs, you won’t be addicted.

Nice job agreeing with CICO you fatass.

>>76748086
>If you cannot survive on sugar and water to prove CICO usefulness
>what are water fasts
People do this all the time you fucking idiot. They lose weight quickly, then eat at maintenance.

>>76748494
>fatass druggie is too dumb to understand his own analogy
Many such cases

>>76747750
How much do you weigh?

>>76742071
>not pictured: sneed oil, sugar sauces, and chemical agents in the bun

>>76742071
Counting calories is for faggots. I just eat when I feel hungry.

>>76747750
It really isn't, all you have to do to beat an addiction is abstain from it and eventually your body will no longer crave it, all you have to do to lose weight is eat less and move more and eventually your body will lose weight.

This obsession with making everything more complicated than it has to be is just an ego stroke for midwits thinking they are superior for using more complicated terms and """"strategies """" that can be expressed in much more simple ways and ultimately is always about abstaining from food.
It is not complicated, it has never been complicated, it will never be complicated and it doesn't have to be complicated and you aren't smart for wanting it to be complicated.

>>76750330
you don't know a thing about addiction, sheltered retard

>>76750395
see
>>76748509
qqmoar fgt

>>76750395
You don’t know anything about not being a worthless waste of space

>>76751062
>>76751250
addiction has nothing to do with IQ, inability to understand that does have a lot to do with IQ though
There's plenty of low IQ people who are healthy.

>>76742071
https://youtu.be/nIdxuNMbOlQ?

>>76752095
Thank you for this reminder anon, even if CICO was useful, I still cannot trust calories written on the packaging.

>>76751874
I didn’t say it does. I said you are a worthless, fat waste of space. Which is true from your posts complaining like a bitch.

>>76752194
>I'm not fat
then post body fatty fat fatass

>>76742096
They believe that 2500kcal of sugar, is the same of 2500kcal of complex carbohydrates, or 2500kcal of mixed proteins. But the ignores the absorption processes that is passive for glucose, but not for amino acids and other nutrients. And that complex foods requires more expensive digestive processes. So to absorb and digested complex nutrient, you demand more energy than simple carbs. The labels do not take this in consideration. So if you eat pure sugar labeled at 2500kcal, you are absorbing close to ~2500kcal. But if eat whole foods and meat, as an example of complex foods, you will eat 2500kcal as the labels describe, but will absorb 2500kcal minus the energy expenditure to digest and absorb, that is about 20-30%, só absorbing at the end about ~2000kcal

>>76752610
absorbtion is irrelevant, if you eat pure carbs, no protein, you will lose weight

>>76752615
I was arguing about the caloric intake calculation. You are right if you have a essential nutrient deficit, you most likely to lose weight, even if you are on caloric surplus.

>>76752632
I accept your concession on calories being irrelevant, CICO is a meme, counting macros and ignoring calories completely works better and fixes all problems of retards eating slop and being surprised why they're DYEL and fat, have a nice day.

>>76742120
>The avatarfag is a Goatpiss fag
You retard.

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>>76748509
If benzo withdrawal was a “nothing burger” then you weren’t really addicted to benzos you fucking idiot. It’s one of the only drugs people literally die coming off cold turkey.

>>76752194
Post body, definitely mentally stable and fit person.

Hahahaha the fatty deleted his post

>>76744766
eat less, fat fuck

>>76745612
Do you also think that the Instagram models who constantly post are not using filters and makeup? Please answer the question.

>>76742071
Are you eating home made burgers? Because people assume it's true for mcslop, which is not the case.

>>76744878
Sure

>>76744766
>i also go to the gym
no you don’t, and you never posted body, retard CICOdenier

>>76744766
>using energy doesn’t count as using energy
Odd hill to die on. Though your clogged arteries will probably kill you first.