Am I getting mind broken ? I am falling for the volume is king and thinking of doings a 4 days full body instead of splits (total 24 set per muscle) anyone have experience with it ?
>>76777869Your first mistake was expecting anyone on fit to actually lift
>>76777869retards will never be good. just end now.
>>76777869You really have to know what you're doing with that kind of frequency. And I'm talking about progressing, it's easy to spin your wheels with any split/program
no one here takes recovery into account, probably why no one here ever makes gains unless they take steroids
>>76777921You can supposedly do more volume because each muscle group is fresh each time I'm thinking something like 6 sets chest 6 sets back 3 sets legs + 5-7 sets of accessories no compounds per training day and you can do shorter rest if you do 2 sets chest 2 sets back and back to chest so you take good rest between each exercise per muscle group and not spend 2 hours at the gym
>>76777926>no one here takes recovery into accountWhat does recovery even mean, is it just being careful about tendon health? If I train frequently I never get sore no matter what, usually training everything I can to failure and more. Only thing I worry about is tendonitis since that fucking sucks and for that collagen seems to help a lot. Or it could be that I'm just a dyel who doesn't lift heavy enough to worry about recovery that much.
>>76777938Track how much volume you lift per weak was it more than last weak ? Good you grew was it less ? You can no longer add weight/reps ? That means you do too much and don't have enough recovery
>>76777918RAINBOWWWW!!!!
>volume is kingYou're talking about frequency, and if volume is low enough you can do 7 days full body.>>76777938>If I train frequently I never get sore no matter what,I don't get that sore either. Been doing shoulders 4x/wk and they're usually just more sensitive after lifting. About 15 reps total of 1pl8 ohp today.
>>76777921High frequency is good, it's the 24 sets that are retarded.
>>76777973>You're talking about frequency,Supposedly you can do more volume per week if you split it across let's say you do 20 sets of chest per week if you do it in a day you can move 1000 kilos if you split it in two day you can move 1300 kilos if you split it in 4 days you can move 1500 kilos leading to more gains over time
>>76777986>SupposedlyYeah idk, seems to work for me. One thing I do think is once you get to intermediate using decent weight, more than 2 top sets is unproductive within a "workout". Once every fiber is stimulated you're just doing rhabdo. One set every day might be ideal. But it's speculation.
>>76777869Id just keep the weekly volume high on your target lift, i usually fall into the trap of benching then calling it a day bit it ends up being not so bad for development as overwork to your degree is less productive. If you get into cns fatigue and not even muscle fatigue youre severely fucking up in terms of putting on muscle, but i found that i used to not even really exhaust/train my muscles then i started getting good gains.
>>76777992...Come to think of it I've done triceps the last 60 days in a row and they're a strong point. Not high volume, just frequency.
>>76777999I will probably drop bench for machines when Volume get high enough to effect cns
>>76778000Did your weakly Volume increase over time ?
>>76778000>2 sets a workout>training one muscle group only once every weekI prefer keeping muscle recovery to 30-50% before lifting again, leads to cns fatigue though but deloads and long recovery honestly never got me far besides healing an injury, also because im unwilling to just stop lifting for over a month like i should.
>>76777869It's a trap. Stick with lowest volume you can steadily see weight increases on all your lifts with. Sometimes that means even going as low as 6 sets per week for a group. Being able to add weight to lift will produce more results than how many time you lift it.Most of the time in the gym you're not 100% recovered on strength output which is fine if mps is done. But like if you're running around 70% most of the time you're going to have a lot harder time adding weight to the bar than if you were 80% or 90%. I know this probably sounds like mumbo jumbo because I'm not neurologist but seriously try HIT focused routine doesn't have to mentzer one set shit just a couple sets per group taken to failure adding weight every time you get to or over 8 reps on that fresh set every 4th or 5th day. You'll be putting so much more weight on the bar and seeing so much more progress if you're not already at your intermediate plateau. More than if you just worked yourself in an artifical plateau by doing too much rather than having it come organically. I've seen this shit a dozen times and fell for it myself for a few years.
>>76778006I wouldnt stop using freeweights entirely, they give you more roms/grips and strengthen tendons. Idk about cns and machines, they save joints more than anything idk about fatigue since i kinda quit doing legs except for once a monthish and once a week when squats are too close to 1pl8 above bench.
>>76778009>Did your weakly Volume increase over time ?Don't think so, tried to equalize it. I started (First 1/2 year) with about double the volume I do now, but I was weaker of course.>>76778014>training one muscle group only once every weekDon't recommend that, 2+ is good.>stop lifting for over a month like i shouldMe neither. I get connective tissue soreness but keep it in check. Lots of collagen.
>>76778006But regarding just the end of the lifting week, thats actually a good idea ill have to even try for isolations/dbs/cables more. As fatigue is much faster to recover than joints, i was already frontloading the week or even session with more hypertrophy then moving to freeweights as i didnt have access to machines for a while so got faster gains just spamming them then it fell off because of limited rom.
>>76778048I was thinking back loading since Sunday is a day off that you get the most rest per week Training Monday Wednesday Friday Saturday sounds the more optimal for recovery if you are not a neet that is trainingAnd Friday training in the morning and Saturday in the night with higher rep range than normal 15+ for the pump
>>76778032So you say I should start with 4 chest 4 back 2 legs plus 4 accessories x4 per weak and then increase the sets to 6 when my volume gain platues
>>76777869Moving more weight more times is the only mark of true progress You aren't getting stronger on your current program, do you really think even more volume is going to help
>>76778135>Moving more weight more times is the only mark of true progressno it's just shows your dedication to your retardation grown muscle is progress bot, yes grown visible undeniable muscle: >>76774505so the only way to train abs is to switch off iliopsoasi've got TWO setups now to achieve that :D1:dragon flag bot with legs folded in knees and hips atop pelvis/torsolift your leg up standing high as it goes, then bring it to your chest closer with hands - this is the positioning u are aiming for cause it's beyond psoas' capability to do more hip flexion - it's switched offlie on back on the floor with 2 light dumbbells in outstretched arms, move dumbbells past head (gives u necessary conterbalance) and fold legs in hips and knees on pelvis/torso, lift your butt off ground with only head and upper back as supportwatch out for legs trying to flex - that's psoas wanting to take over from abs, keep em relaxed and folded2:take a pillow and shove it beneath your lumbar spine as u lay flat on the floor - it should be slightly uncomfortable that's how much padding u needcrunch - that's it, providing leverage point above psoas origin isolates abs from iliopsoas and switches the latter off - legs are completely softdid it yesterday and i feel it mostly in lower abs, interestingly while i was doing it i felt it mostly in upper abs :Dthe uncomfortable feeling in spine goes away as u crunchand judging by what grew from what that dragon flag with full hip (and knee) flexion is for upper absand crunch on pillow under lumbar (and soft legs - both have soft legs - this is the proxy for switched off psoas) is definitely lower abs_______________________________________________________________2 sets of each isometric hold no more often than tice a week, literal 5 minute abs, A WEEK BOT 5 MINUTES A WEEK
>>76778135I currently dopush 11 sets + 8-9 accessories pull 11 sets +4 sets legs +5 accessories push 9 sets +11 accessories pull 9 sets + 4 sets legs + 6 accessories Strength and volume increase but I think a 4 day full body will allow even more volume with the SAME amount of sets due to being more fresh each training
>>76777938Recovery is giving you muscles enough time to build back up what they lost during training and then some so the next time you can lift more.
>>76778197>Recovery is giving you muscles enough time to build back up what they lost during training and then some so the next time you can lift more.I'm basically convinced that training the repeated bout effect makes your muscles able to recover through additional workouts, as long as they're short. If you hammer them like lifters have been doing for 50 years, it causes injury, and then you need 2-3 days off.
My best results has been training full body and having 2-3 days off between each full body dayimo if you're natural you shouldn't lift constantly/daily
>>76778206>training the repeated bout effectWhat does this mean?>>76778213I agree 2-3 days seems optimal for me too. I'm a low volume guy though. 2x 5-8 high intensity.
>>76778239>2x 5-8 high intensity.Won't you hit a platue after a year with that low volume assuming u train max 3-4 times per week
>>76778239>What does this mean?Get used to doing a lift often. If I take a muscle to failure 4 days a week and get stronger over two months, you definitely don't absolutely need 2 days rest.
>>76778124I would start withOne compound and one accessory per head of the target muscle group. Except for things like abs, erectors, glutes things that usually have one lift that hits most of it well enough in that event do two sets.For like chest and triceps you'd break it down into one set ofWhatever bench variation you like Pec deck or an isolation what's smallest head in the pec usually clavivular Tricep pushdownTricep extensionMy bench fails on triceps not chest so I go more in on the pec deck to bring my bench up. Just kind of revise what you're doing based on where you aren't seeing growth. If you aren't seeing prs on something move it to the front of the order you do things in. If still doesn't pr then maybe add a set and keep it at the front. That's about it. It's a lot of work to do in fullbody so I usually go upper/lower or front/back with. Ends up still being 2 to 3 hours of gym time a week just with work that's a lot more focused and higher quality. You can decide for yourself if ABxABxx ABxx AxBx or whatever variation there of is enough rest or not. But I wouldn't try push it above 2 a week. Just focus on numerical results in everything you'll see the weight go up before you see anything in the mirror but it being able to go up at the same reps is proof that mass is being added. You could probably even do less if you're 100% sure your compounds are failing on a certain muscle before the others you only have to isolate the others. But if you do sets dynamically like this you'll always have time to work on stubborn areas and won't squander time on areas that are progressing fine.
>>76778032absolutely hate you and you are stupid.the strength doesn't go up by doing less reps. that's completely counterintuitive.
>>76777869>Volume is king>No splitswat
>>76778403Then why do long distance runners look malnourished and sprinters are ripped? Why dont you bench the bar for 10x200 for your chest workout?
>4 day fullbody>24 sets ***per muscle***Nigga what? I do 2 sets (3 MAX occasionally) on a 3 day fullbody routine and get maybe 6 to 8 sets weekly per muscle. 24 is insane. Surely I must be misunderstanding
>>76778442You might not like it but this is what peak looks like
>>76778421>Then why do long distance runners look malnourished and sprinters are ripped?sprinters incorporate more resistance training because they want explosive movements. >Why dont you bench the bar for 10x200 for your chest workout?4x12. and I would actually do more if I was unemployed. but unfortunately I'm gainfully employed at the moment.I still do a couple sets of 20 pushups sporadically or pushups with my kids on my back. you know. outside of the gym.
>>76778463Okay if you mean 24 sets per session, then that's ok if you can recover properly. I thought you meant you're spamming 24 sets per muscle, which would be nuts on any split
>>76778247why? I suppose the real question is what drives hypertrophy volume or intensity. I'm convinced intensity is more important.
>>76778403You're thinking about strength wrong then. Strength is a product of the physical muscle fibers and neurological input it's receiving to do those things.Strength recovers slower than just the muscle itself because it's so interdependent on the neurological side.How you get these two to work together and not let that cap your potential output is to not do more than is nessisary to grow muscle. The physical myoprotein synthesis occurs most readily in response to loading increase and near failure proximity. But this is significantly more taxing on the neurological side. Hence why volume should go down. The benefit of more sets has extremely diminishing returns in terms of mps. So there's little point in doing more unless an area simply is not responding the amount of work it's getting. If you want to fit the work you need most into a routine with a limited fatigue threshold this is the easiest way to do that intuitively instead of having to go back the drawing board all the time because your deload didn't go as well as you were hoping. The only people who should seriously think about more expansive routines are near capped at what they can do naturally or just have so much stress/depression/poor sleep habits that they can't really go to failure because their neurological system that has to work in conjunction with the muscle is fucked and makes a much less negotiable bottle neck in strength increases.
