Shoulder DB press vs Lateral raisesIs there any point to do lateral raises if you could do DB shoulder press?DB press trains lateral and front deltoids and also triceps. DB Press is more functional.Should I throw Lateral raises away?
I think there is.
Barbell ohp mogs
>>76897543>Should I throw Lateral raises away?I haven't really done them in a long time and shoulders are yuge for a natty. various ohp especially single arm (One db easier to move).
>>76897543Isolation in general is better for hypertrophy due to the focused neurological involvement. Different paths to different goals.Regardless, upright rows are better than lateral raises. No amount of lateral raises ever did for my shoulders what a few months of upright rows did.
>>76897571barbell is shit, doesn't train lateral delts>>76897577I am more interested in strength. DB press seems more natural and useful movement than lateral raises.>upright rowsThey damage your shoulders and joints.
knock yourself outthe problems with db pressing compared to raises are front delt engagement and getting the dbs into position without screwing up and ruining your set once you can press more than 30-40kg you're a DYEL so neither should worry you
>>76898510>and getting the dbs into position without screwing up and ruining your set You can use both arms for this.>once you can press more than 30-40kg you're a DYEL so neither should worry youI do not take steroids so I will never press 30-40kg.
>>76898549I pressed 35kg without roiding, while weighting 80smth kgDYEL
I do db lat raises as a warmup every workout seem to like them and I think they help because a lot of excercises indirectly involve the shoulders.
>>76898549Pressing 30-40kg dbs is easier than pressing a 60-80kg barbell, both are very achievable natty you'll get there someday. One handed standing db pressing is Based, probably the oldest strongman circus trick, and you can indeed use both hands to get the db up but I find it very exhausting on the whole body, maybe it's the traps, whatever hand goes 2nd isn't going to get as many reps even if it's my dominant hand.
I do not like lateral raises at all. You can't even train them for strength, there is shoulder pain when using heavy weights. Fake unnatural movement.
>>76898645it's the no pain no gain kind of pain lactic acid is good for you
>>76898648But it's a different pain, not muscle pain but more like joint/shoulder pain and it starts from the first rep, not after finishing the set. I do not trust lateral raises.
https://exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBOneArmShoulderPressvshttps://exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise
lateral raises got my delts capped. thank you lateral raises. ohp is for liftmogging dyels
Shoulder presses don't hit your fucking side deltsRead an anatomy book
>>76898703>Shoulder presses don't hit your fucking side deltsIf you are a fag that uses barbell then yes.Dumbbell shoulder press does hit side delt a lot.https://exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBOneArmShoulderPress
>>76898726>he needs a 1996 website to tell him ohp hits side deltmy guy just feel the burn
>>76898755How would I know without the website?I don't feel anything in the muscles, I train low rep for strength. No burn.
>>76898486Another fucking retard
>>76898549>I do not take steroids so I will never press 30-40kg.I've done 75lbx3 I think. One at a time.
>>76898655It was the same for me until I’ve started to raise my arm in the scapular plane. It really was a gamechanger for me.
>>76897543Try the w-press for better tension in the streched position then the lateral raise. It can be harder on some folks shoulders since they rotate out. I'd say it's close to a behind the neck press in terms of mid delt bias since the elbows are out to the side, but the elbows are locked. It's simpler for me to set up then BNP since I don't have a rack set up at the moment and my triceps get worked from doing 30-40 sets (myo rep sets) chest a week for the moment (home made dip machine makes it easy to spam chest).
>>76897543>Is there any point to do lateral raises if you could do DB shoulder press?No>>76897571spbp
I do low weight lateral raises in between sets of DB shoulder press after extensively warming up. But my shoulders are fucked after 3 surgeries so ymmv>>76899150Can you explain?
for me it's bradford presses to absolute failure until I'm resting every rep and push pressing it total delt anihilation
>>76899189Look up the video on youtube titled “Stop doing lateral raises like this” by Sean Nalewanyj. He talks about this at 1:22 in the vid.
>>76899189Why did you need 3 surgeries?
>>7689926625+ dislocations, my rotator cuffs are fine but the tissue, labrum, that holds the glenoid head into the joint capsule is fucked. Dead hangs unironically have allowed me to do anything at all
>>76899244Thanks brah
>>76899303>25+ dislocationsHow? Are you a swimmer or a baseball player or something? I can only imagine that much dislocations by doing something that requires speed, like throwing/hitting a ball. Or some kind of contact sports maybe? I hope you get better though.
>>76899165>picLooks unnatural, not functional movement, fake.
>>76898703>don't hit your side deltsDepends on the execution. The typical narrow grip presses you often see do not do so. A wider than normal grip while standing (seated on say a 60 degree bench changes the mechanics enough to shift the load onto the front delts) will require the lateral head as there is a greater degree of abduction. BTNP with the most abduction will get a large amount of lateral head recruitment. BTNP is probably the best exercise, even better than lateral raises on a machine, for side delts.And then if you're leaning back a lot during the press, you're taking load of the lateral head and putting more load onto the pecs. Also, training delts is very form sensative. You're probably just pushing weight at all cost instead of paying attention to form. You have to use a lower load and do more reps to make sure you're actually loading the lateral head. Just trying to push weight like a power lifter will instinctually lead to form based around leverage to rather than form based around the muscles you want to train.
ok
yes
>>76897543They hit different fibers, I often replace presses while benching out of laziness but presses are what's up same with rows for rear delts high rom, incline and front delts. Wanna get huge you should see my pics. Anyways for front/mid you gotta put your arm above the shoulder socket like a zombie. No impingement only tendon gains. Don't be afraid to bend elbows and increase weight. I like front raises for mid delts getting all the fibers. You likely don't hit front or rear delts properly it requires a closer grip. Cables are the sickest for raises but doing presses 80-20/50-50 depending will make your gains sick. I just put like 5mo of progress on in 2mo.
>>76899679It should be acceptable to do some isolations for hypertrophy for some othervise negleted muscles or for aesthetics and not think functional all the time. If you wan't functional you should do push press. Maybe power clean in to push press, or maybe full on cross fit. For functional strenght couple of sets a week for the big four, or whatever, could be enought for strenght gains – and hyperthrophy for the rest of it.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KhXi397KvU8why? try it - feels awesome allows thoracic extension and lat spread due to sitting posture - necessary conditions for delt work >but this bald idiot ... is used to ridicule the idea bot
>>76900295>do this zesty Tate method that was universally laughed at for months
>>76898486kill yourself please
>>76897577This, switched to upright rows and progress has been insane. I think im going to keep fearmongering them to keep ze gainz for myself though
Should stop lateral raises? They fake
>>76897571If I bonk myself on the head one more time I'll be certifiably retarded, I cannot afford the risk.
>>76902035one arm dumbbell = less risk of dropping to your headand also, when you drop, the weight is much smaller than barbell
What's a respectable 1rm?
>>76900251It's funny>relation is mostly constant from 5 sets to 30 sets. >the peaks are at about 4 sets/weekVery interesting graph. It's almost like the low volume guys are right about something here.
>>76902728yes
>>76901301>>do this zesty Tate method that was universally laughed at for monthswell i am pointing that out bot - this bald sodomite was used to ridicule the idea>>76900295>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KhXi397KvU8>why?>try it - feels awesome>allows thoracic extension and lat spread due to sitting posture - necessary conditions for delt work>>but this bald idiot ...>is used to ridicule the idea botit's a grand conspiracy to fuck up fitzen - shill injurious ineffective nonsense and ridicule anything that is actually good , u are part of this grand conspiracy bot :D
lyle mcdonald says to do upright rows and lateral raises for shoulders
>>76903701>lyle mcdonald says to do upright rows and lateral raises for shouldersseated lateral raised idometric hold yes :D allows for lat spread and thoracic extension, just like this>>76903683>>>76900295>>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KhXi397KvU8>>why?>>try it - feels awesome>>allows thoracic extension and lat spread due to sitting posture - necessary conditions for delt work>>>but this bald idiot ...>>is used to ridicule the idea bot>it's a grand conspiracy to fuck up fitzen - shill injurious ineffective nonsense and ridicule anything that is actually good , u are part of this grand conspiracy bot :D
Going as high (lmao) as a 35kg barbell in OHP causes me physical pain and I have to drop it after 3 reps because my shoulder stings like a motherfucker. It's the only lift that does that for me. I haven't progressed in months. Is it over for me?
>>76904236>Is it over for me?No, stop using stupid barbell and do one arm dumbbell press.
I was doing dumbbells at home for months, that's where I started regressing. Went to the gym hoping a barbell would fix my shit but it got even worse!
>>76904279Your fucking up somehow
I like cable lateral raises
>>76904288Yeah but I double check my form regularly and everything was fine. Maybe I have an injury but retard doctors in my shit cunt won't check for shit, they just gave me ointments to make the pain go away (at least they did help). At least the lat raises are treating me right...Also meant to reply to >>76904245 originally.
Lateral Raises build good looking shoulders. The trick is that the shoulder needs a LOT of volume. Sets of 16 reps on lateral raises is not excessive. Even sets of 20. Thats how you need to progressive overload.
>>76904305I do not like volume.
Dumbbell win.
>>76897543Do some heavy/fiber specific raises for a month. Delts are nice you can do whatever 2-4x/wk and they recover fast. Hard to get the proper mmc to actually grow. Raises typically hit mid delts the most, try presses+pulls for more front/rear. Mid delts are easy to grow, but actually hitting front/rear is hard, try exaggerated rom pushes and pulls. Raises typically build overall size vs strength.
STOP lateral raises NOW
>>76897543Db lateral raise is meh. Cable db lateral raise is great. If you want strength on OHP for the sake of strength on OHP, you must bodybuild weak links. Here's a copypaste of a table of weak points because CBA.Start from Clavicle Anterior delt and/or clavicular head of the pecs High Incline Bench Press (60-75 degrees)Nose Level External shoulder rotators Cuban Press or Seated Dumbbell Clean & PressAt Forehead Medial or posterior delt Bradford Press or Arnold PressLockout Long head of the triceps, shoulder instability, or lack of mobility Overhead Top 1/3 Pin Press, Push Press, or Military Press with Hanging Band Technique (shoulder stability)Whether you do arnold/bradford/db press or cable lateral raise/db posterior delt fly doesn't really matter in the end as long as you grow the muscles relevant to your weakpoint
>>76906634>this meme exercises
>>76906671It says which muscles are weak at which point of ohp so you can do whatever exercise you want to train those muscles.
>>76906704How about if I trained ohp to get stronger muscles at ohp?
>>76904852ngmi
>>76907886>ngmiWhat does it mean?
>>76906634>Db lateral raise is meh. Cable db lateral raise is great.huwhy bot says it? cause dumbbells weigh the most to your muscles at the top of the motion - bottom half of motion is supraspinatus not delt: https://youtu.be/ITcd7YelCjI?t=248whereas cablehttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/lMJUXEvcMkQhas full load at the very bottom which lessens up top :D the rest of the post is just: >how to thoroughly trash shoulders mine: >>76903780>>76903683>dude why are u still here i keep on learning new stuff, turns out seated (without back rest) shoulder work allows more thoracic extension and aids proper lat spread which are both necessary conditions for delt work
>>76897543If I'm trying to absolutely buttblast my shoulders you better bet I'm gonna be nailing some delt raises.
>>76909263yeah bot, but without proper spinal alignement and scapular control u're flopping and rolling scaps not moving humerus in relation to scapula with delt u WILL get injured and u WON'T get delts >>76909244>mine:>>>76903780>>>76903683
>>76909273To hit delt flies without impingement I usually hold it like a zombie pose so under load it's more neutral, also differentiating arm rotation and body angle yes I like mostly unilateral work. Using this form I can even do btb all the time with 0 injury, but I'm doing a ton of front delt shit lately like hammer grip front raises rotated the opposite way of the motion, plus front delt biased incline mostly with narrow grip. Spinal positioning wise I do a lot of different angles, I'd assume anyone is doing braced unilaterals. Scapulae I just try to brace them to neutral for any given lift, sure you can do bench shrugs ohp shrugs etc that's typucally included when I'm doing core work on say overextension cable rows or flat bench shoulders. Seemingly unproductive lifts that hit stabilizers very well.
>>76909294>zombie pose - extend lumbar no u want lumbar more flexed bot like when u are sitting and straightening your spine - allows fuller thoracic extension which is strenuous standing, i am very happy that i tried it: >>76900295>https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KhXi397KvU8i expect my shoulders to be even moar bulletproof, and i expect my posture improving further still with sitting delt work, i also expect my mighty delts to grow further still when i am finally able to not fuck up anything doing them >also differentiating arm rotation and body angle yes I like mostly unilateral worktranslaishun: don't just flop your scaps with spine curled into pretzel - bend your spine sideways as well so that u don't hit delts even moar >Scapulae I just try to brace them to neutral for any given lift, sure you can do bench shrugs ohp shrugs etc that's typucally included when I'm doing core work on say overextension cable rows or flat bench shoulders. Seemingly unproductive lifts that hit stabilizers very well.scaps down out and stationary, delt bot is between humerus and scaps, u want to move humerus in relation to scapula for delt, not much though, i'm leaning towards isometric hold with little slow purposeful oscillations whether we're talking portions of ohp or lateral raise motion obviously if u "lift tha weight" humerus will break 90 degs and scaps will rise up and rotate in scapular-humeral rhythm - no, u gotta stop halfway through with scaps down and out, stop and ponder delts growing >>>76909244 (You)>>mine:>>>>76903780>>>>76903683
>>76909351So somehow your shoulders are in a better position while keeping the entire pback flexed? I isolate more than flex abs entirely2, I prefer heavy+bent elbows. More into the twisted into whatever I'm doing than tendon stretch, try some leaned in to delt raises if you think otherwise. All about what muscles you're hitting the stretch with. Obviously after presses, shit's sick hit some weird rotated fibers. Drop some rear delt shit this is all I'm posting.
>>76909437>nonsense ok bot D: >>76909351>>76909273>>76909244>>76903780
>>76909437>I isolate more than flex abs entirely2yeah abs flexed when u sit for delt work pull pelvis out of anterior tilt and lumbar out of hyper-extension, i think it hapeens outomatically for me with thoracic extension - good point though bot > So somehow your shoulders are in a better position while keeping the entire p back flexed?yes bot, extended thoracic and flexed lumbar and double chin for cervical spine AND THEN u can do delts :D >All about what muscles you're hitting the stretch with.stretching is fucken retarded altogether bot - tugging on tight and therefore injured muscle stretching has NOTHING to do with hypertrophy either, u just want muscle to work for few dozens of seconds at a time and iso-hold is the only way to get there >>76909351>i'm leaning towards isometric hold with little slow purposeful oscillations whether we're talking portions of ohp or lateral raise motion>Obviously after presses, shit's sick hit some weird rotated fibers. if u press out bot then scapula will elevate and rotate, never press out completely outside of moving about with zero weight >Drop some rear delt shit this is all I'm posting.and here we go again:>u must flap around scaps human to get delts that is not how it works bot: >>76909351>don't just flop your scaps with spine curled into pretzel - bend your spine sideways as well so that u don't hit delts even moar
>>76909480Why do you write such a mess of text? I don't understand a single sentence.Did your father punch you in the head when you were a baby?
>>76909525>I don't understand a single sentence.pot calling the kettle black - i have decyphered your intentionally idiotic delivery bot: >>76909480and there u go right back at me with projection lol :D MINE: >>76909462
>>76898486you're a fucking idiot lol
>>76909721fuck barbell
>poorfag with one weight (20lb KB)>it's barely enough to strain in most exercises and way too much for lateral raisesI might be retarded
>>76911445Sell kettlebell. Buy spinlock dumbbell.
>>76912428spinlock
>>76897543Do Lu raises insteadhttps://m.youtube.com/shorts/J7zEP4WujbQ
>>76897571why the hell would you do that instead of the superior db ohpis it because you are an ego lifting KID?
>>76897543Both, at the same time. DB press up, lateral delt negatives. You will never, from relaxed, lateral raise as much as you can press, just too much physics working against you. Negative lateral raises however! You'll get more gains just from decelerating your db press laterally than you would from doing full ROM lat raises.
>>76897543the deltoid is a single muscle. adduction of the humerus must occur along at least 3 axis but should realistically occur across the entire range of motion of your armfront, lateral, rear, so limiting and gayon shoulder day you should keep moving the whole set front to rear and back
heavy lateral raises with shitty form like god intended, anything else is DYEL cope, praise god baby amen
>>76897543Cable lateral raises cuffed above the elbow. Generally speaking your grip gives out before your shoulders do, and your shoulders are actually a chunky muscle contrary to popular opinion. Moving it above the elbow removes your grip and elbow joint stability from the equation. If you reach failure with good form, I'd be amazed if the limiting factor wasn't your delt strength. Yes they look silly, yes the increase in weight is sort of an ego fraud due to the shorter distance, yes the gym uncs will harass you for trying something new but basically any zoomer that gets fitness related content on their fyp on tiktok is aware of this at the very least so you won't look silly to any of your friends (assuming you're a zoomer).
>>76909156Niggers GiveMe Indigestion
