Now I bet you'll say something like

>erm actually that guy must have good genetics if he can get good results doing easy lifts like a lat pulldown and seated cable row.

Then you will say

>if you have average genetics you need to do weighted pullups and barbell rows or else u wont get results!


Because apparently Mr Chad can do the EASY SHIT and make crazy gains, but I cant? How does that even make any sense?

>>76941625
Could be me but not on easy mode. Someone might be doing a warmup set or deload. Anyway, doesn't matter where the weight is; you can get big and strong with machines.

Because it's oldschool and a feat of strength. If you want to grow your lats you should do exercises that you can feel in your lats while you're doing them I bet you feel your bodyweight warm up pullups more than your heavy sets.

>>76941659
no this is how he trains year round for years on end

>>76941625
Hating lat pull downs is a fucking cross fit meme. All the golden age body builders did lat pull downs.

>>76941675
How do I get over the decade of pyschological brain washing that harder lift = better results?


Because ive been spamming weighted pullups for a decade, FULL range of motion, not kipping shit, and, no half rep shit, and ive progressed into heavier and heavier weighted pullups

But then I see that guy at my gym, crazy built back, shredded, ripped, and he does 150lbs on the pulldown, meanwhile im doing 250lbs weighted pullups and im getting mogged by a boomer doing ez-mode pulldowns with much less weight

I feel my lats way more on pulldown and my back on seated cable rows or even machines, pull-ups is kind of a compound exercise just like barbell rows, they’re worse than the machines imo since you’re not isolating the muscle you wanna target, hence why chad has a better back than you, he doesn’t spend time on /fit/ getting psyopd

>>76941718
Well i mean the psyop makes sense...

Harder lifter = muscles have to train harder = more results

More weight = muscles have to train harder = more results

Harder lift + more weight = more results


So theoretically this means Weighted Pull-Ups should have given me superior gains to people who just do Lat Pulldowns, but in reality, after 10+ years, it hasn't.

So ive basically done the most rigorous version of a vertical pull expect superior results compared to people who pick an easy vertical pull like a Lat Pulldown as their main vertical pull, and yet have not been given the superior results, in fact guys like that example I gave have superior results over me, despite doing what is theoretically a massively sub-par variant of a vertical pull

Pullups are cooler and more fun.

>>76941726
I agree but im at a point in my training where im sick of just doing the hardest variants of lifts just to look hard, I want to see better results, and its clear the "hard" versions of the lifts arent giving me them

Ironically I learned this a long time ago when I replaced Squats with Leg Press and saw way better gains overall in my legs. Im not sure why I applied this with Lower body but have yet to apply it to upper body.

The main reason I stopped squatting and did leg press instead is because I had an issue of where my lower back would fail way before my legs got tired, so switching to a Leg Press massively increased my leg muscularity because I could finally train my actual legs to failure

>>76941712
youre capable of something he can't do and you think he mogs you?
dont be so shallow. you sound like a transgender teen with all that body dysmorphia
OG was probably jacked in his day and has echogainz to thank for his current physique

weighted pullups aren't hard and then mog pulldowns to oblivion, meaning if you get good at weighted pullups, you can probably rep out the whole stack in lat pulldowns and it doesn't work the other way around
harder exercises would be things you really load like deadlift, squat, bench press and so on and not many people really need them

It literally doesn't matter what lifts you do, just pick the ones you enjoy the most and do them to failure

>>76941625
Probably has a home gym after spending hundreds of hours in the gym, it's kind of illogical not to.

>>76941625
If you want a big back, of course divulge into other lifts for say rear delts, traps, rhomboids, teres, etc with odd movements
>heavy bent rows both super bent over and power, I prefer widegrip or reverse
>weighted pullups, I like wide chins and fuller rom narrower grip pullups
>btb lat pulldowns and normal pulldowns you can work elbows to chest vs bar to upper chest more than others but is still a technique variant worth noting and using on other back exercises
>unilateral pulldowns especially for rear delts and the part closer to the spine
>traps are easy just reverse/wide reverse/overhand shrugs
>the odd back muscles are usually built egolifting they're basically like trap work in how they move your shoulders

Ya know just do some different shit and take pics of the pump and different flexes to see how it develops. I was always able to do a ton of back since it doesn't fuck up my shoulders, just doing a lot of volume on something throughout the week is always gonna be a good thing. Most people underwork than go so hard they get less gains or even damage the muscle tissue, joint problems are typically from form and you can even load the tendons on any given lift especially to grow them.

>>76941742
Those are called supplementary lifts vs staple compound movements like dl, bench, ohp, bb row, pullups. Of course it's an arbitrary distinction but you typically see less size with compounds unless using bodybuilding form, but size won't go as far without getting heavier at main lifts. Barbell also usually makes your tendons and stabilizer muscles stronger, so doing strict ohp without arch is gonna be way harder and stabilizer muscles typically fail. It even helps to build a certain kind of physique like a strongman as the core is most of the stabilizers. For example, try out ohp/btb but put your head through and don't kip the weight at all it's way harder and more taxing even with low weight.

>>76941625
What exactly do you think is the difference between a lat pulldown and a pullup? They are almost identical biomechanically. The only thing that makes one or the other harder is the weight, which is just down to progressive overload.

>>76941625
yes machines are better for muscle growth. harder lifts can be fun. all you need to grow is stimulus and basic diet/lifestyle stuff. no need to overcomplicate it nephew.

>>76941625
>The question is, why do we bother doing the "hard" versions of exercises when you can do the easy variants and still get crazy good results?
Because some people are addicted to the dopamine rush they get from overcoming the difficulty. Athletes are taught to weight train this way, and most people who preach the hard = good ethos are former athletes who are passing down wisdom to people who may or may not give a rat's ass about being athletic. Training a 36 year old who just wants to look good naked and not have knee or shoulder problems like they're going to be playing linebacker is pointless imo. This is why having goals is important. You may not reach the destination, but merely having a destination will help you tremendously.

>>76941625
Lylekub McDonald has addressed this before, the "complex moves" are just for style. That's why you never see Mr. Olimpias seriously blasting their hamstrings with deadlifts and shoulders with BB OHP.
I would argue that the rare machine that isolates the lats is even better than pulldowns despite looking even easier, as your forearms won't get in the way.
>>76941742
It happened to me without trying, the gyms around here are very bitchmade (rural area, an accident happened years ago) so the heaviest "free weight" around is a 10kg dumbell, the rest is machines. So I had to go around doing machine presses and lat pulldowns, and I can say that I have gotten bigger despite having 0 barbell movements in a year. Don't get me wrong I personally love deadlifts and OHP but I know they don't grow anything specifically well while adding massive amounts of fatigue to my session, so I don't mind the lack of them.