Some months ago i decided to make an experiment.I took bench press to decide to change my routine.I used to bench each 2 days (so lets say monday and then wednesday) and i would progress over time.Mind you i go to failure on last set. I would take some rest days when feeling tired but always consistent overall.Then i read about this Mentzer guy and said "hm ok then" and decided to train bench each 6 days.It s been months and i have literally made no progress at all lol, i still go to failure and each workout feels like some kind of alternative version of myself doing bench for the first time in an infinite loop where progress never happens.You gotta train a lift kinda frequently to get better at lifting (lifting more = more gains).Mentzer was a retard on steroids, he grew cuz of steroids.
>>76949503>Mind you i go to failure on last set.you have no idea what going to failure actually means.
>>76949521It means you cannot lift the weight no matter your effort into doing it
growth results from a balance of intensity (how hard you're going), volume (how much you're doing) and frequency (how often you're doing). favoring one over the rest will drastically change your results. heavy intensity causes myofibrillar hypertrophy (strength oriented), meanwhile heavy volume/frequency are sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (size oriented. your muscle fibers are more "hollow" and larger but are weaker). mentzer may have been a junkie but you are both an idiot and a coward for misunderstanding that 1) what worked on him may not work on you and 2) disregarded the philosophy he always imbued.
>>76949524it means going beyond what you can lift in the positive and negative. you cant even do it without a spotter.
>>76949525If heavy volume/frequency are sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, this is the opposite of what mentzer said, he said to train with lot of intensity but with pretty low volume and with very very low frequency.
>>76949561both myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophies are, hypertrophy by nature. both WILL gain you size and strength, however your training style will determine which one you favor more. dorian yates also believes in heavy intensity low volume; franco columbo does not. ronnie coleman is an inbetweener and so on. what all of them have in common is they achieve absolute failure, they ALL obliterate the muscle and religiously maintain a recovery regime because that's where growth initiates. this is also why beginners and (early) roiders can take a shit and still grow muscle solely because they've achieved the failure requirement. as you progress further, obstacles start appearing that hinder your failure/recovery requirement. there is also always genetics but that's a low hanging fruit. your body evolves with you, you do not stay limited in the same ceiling forever
>>76949561i am confused. if mentzer suggested very very low frequency, why did you start benching 6x a week to test his theory? aren't these complete opposites?
>>76949503Nah, mentzer may not have optimized his idea, but he was onto something. Having said that, he was a giant meth addict.
>>769496386x a week?I said each 6 days.Workout day, 6 days of rest, repeat.That Mentzer fraud said to let the muscle fully recover for weeks after training it hard, high intensity with low volume and low frequency, he was an idiot on steroids lol.That could work on beginners but i m kinda advanced to the point where if i fucking train one lift once every 6 days i will never make progress.I said "maybe mentzer was right, maybe i should not exercise every 2 days, let s see", big mistake listening to a steroid user.
>>76949503You probably aren't having an all put session, or using all rep ranges. Less 8-12 and more sets of 5-8rms or so after 1-3. It might take you 10 sets of a bigger muscle, I do like 8 sets of shoulders a lot lately if a few sets sucked.
>>76949663>6x a week?>I said each 6 days.>Workout day, 6 days of rest, repeat.NTA, but if that's what you meant then you should have said "every 6 days.">i m>let s see>see",You're also putting spaces where you should be using a ' and (usually) the comma goes inside the quotes.good english otherwise (for casual imageboard posting), keep it up friend.
>>76949525>no entry for 7 repsGoddamn they were right...
>>76949503bench isn't the type of workout you really push the muscles to failure onTry doing it on a machine press instead and youll notice what failing a chest workout truly feels likeExample Warm up120 x 20150 x 20180 x 4200 x 4Then the real set:220 x FailureRest 30 Seconds210 x FailureRest 30 Seconds200 x FailureThis is what a true high-intensity set looks like. You're not going to get the same activation from barbell training because there's too many other muscle groups getting involved to help, and you'll lose balance or fatigue the nervous system before you can truly achieve muscular exhaustion.
>>76949528You're talking about going past failure you retard
>>76949503What is your bench press?
>>76949503> he grew cuz of steroids.Pretty much every Mr. Olympia contestant. Steroids. When you're approaching Mike Mentzer, especially with the low IQ that is consistently found on this board, you really have to look into his actual history. Mike Mentzer started on a standard power lifting program in the 50's and 60's. No this isn't the type of thing people do today. They're not pumping out volume or warming up and doing a 5 top sets. They're did the traditional ramp up. For beginners, 2-3 warm ups depending on how heavy and then 2-3 working sets. If you were strong enough 5 sets would be you work up to a top weight and you'd do that top weight for one set. Often it would be an AB full body routine 2-3 times per week like one of Reg Park's routines. Mike Mentzer in the 70's when getting back into training after a shoulder injury did a three full body day per week routine with 5-6 exercises each day and 1-2 top-sets depending on how he felt about it. He also claims to have done an AB-split routine that started out as a MWTF routine and then reduced down to a MWF.Mike Mentzer never trained on his once every 8 day routine or anything like that. What he wrote in his book published more than 15 years after he retired from competing was something that in application, for the more competitive of his clients, had them doing workouts once every 48 hours.>to train bench each 6 daysWhat you've failed to is state (and what others have failed to ask) is what your bench is. That's important. Beginners can train more frequently. The likelihood is that you're barely intermediate if you need to bench once every 2-4 days to get progress. Over time, as the load actually increases and you get into intermediate and then advanced levels of strength, you can cut down a bit. Perhaps when you are truly advanced you might not be able to bench more than once every 6-7 days because of how much strain there is. Until then, you can train more frequently.
>>76949663Your mistake as usual is pretty much copying a routine or mindless applying advice while ignoring the rest of the statements around the advice. And then you blame Mike for really doing it wrong. Mike set some fairly idealistic principals. And then in practice how frequently you trained or whether or not you could add an exercise or two was individualized. If you felt you needed another set, you could do it which is also something Mike Mentzer has stated in his tapes. Unlike Arnold who knew he was dealing with idiots as is usually the case in bodybuilding who are better off just being treated like an idiot and just being told what to do. Mike seemed to be someone who valued trying to get other people to think about what they're doing and others were saying, especially about what he was saying. If something didn't work well for you, then you need to change something. If something works well, there is no reason to stop doing that unless it stops working. >>76949613>achieve absolute failure>columbo>ronnieI've never seen a video of either of them ever going to failure. On Bench for instance, bother of them are always racking the bar when they decided they did enough reps. Franco was a power lifter at heart who delved into bodybuilding often pushing a lot of weight. Not going to MMF but technical failure. Ronnie just used heavy weights a lot and really had some of the best genes for body building. He was fairly muscular even before getting into lifting. Ronnie did something like 3-4pl8s for lots of reps. Same thing with Franco.
>>76950318>>7695034680lbs dbs bench press.Yeah it s not that much but it s not a low number.I do 8 reps which is ok.The thing is: I got to this point working out every 48/72 hours, i would see stable (no fast, but consistent) progress, now that i train every 6 days i ve been stuck with same reps and same weight for months.Now everytime it feels like being doing it for the first time in ages, like i did not get anything from the previous session, my body does not adapt.And i guess this is because you need to train more frequently, not like that Mentzer guy suggested.
>>76950284that is how mentzer and yates trained faggot
>>76949663"Steroid user!">literally you
>>76949856OP is a dummy but hes right. He first said each 2 days then said each 6 days.
>>76951014Yea, I guess they didnt teach you what failure meant. Maybe that lesson was a little on the nose for you.
>>76949521>make progress>switch program>stop making progress>uhh youre not doing it rightlmao at mentzer roidniggers
>>76949503>each workout feels like some kind of alternative version of myself doing bench for the first time in an infinite loopIve had that feeling. You're rusty. The more rest days you have between doing the same movement, the more warmup you require to shake the rust off.
>>76949503Are you even lifting heavy?
>>76951716read his post title nigger. he was following mentzer and wasn't going to failure the way mentzer meant it.
>>76952098Yeah and i suppose once i shake the rust off with the workout, i rest again for too many days so that it comes back and i will need to shake it off again in the next session, creating a loop where i never progress.>>7695211480lbs dbs for sets of 8. Nothing crazy but for a manlet is decent. + I don t care about being strong i care about becoming strong.When i worked each 48/72 i saw progress, now i tried the "train hard and rest a lot" idea and got stuck.I suppose resting more than 3 days is just stupid unless you still feel fatigued from the previous session.
>>76949503>It s been months and i have literally made no progressHave you tried adding weight
>>76949503You need to post your benchAt 3pl+ doing bench to failure every 2 days natty is not realistic
>>76952911If i do i will just be able to do even less reps.You add reps/weight when you start feeling your workout becomes easy.Right now every workout feels like a fight to death.The problem is the frequency.I thought "ok let s try this lot of rest routine" and i got fucked.>>76952933Yeah you are right, i was too arrogant saying i was advanced.Overall i think i can be considered intermediate (imo as a manlet i think i can be considered high-intermediate because dumbbells are harder than barbell bench press) but the point is i listened to "Mentzer Philosophy" of resting a lot, and i stopped progressing.When i worked out more frequently i could see stable (and slow) progress.
>>76952955>You add reps/weight when you start feeling your workout becomes easy.Who told you this? It will never feel easier if you lift the same weight.An organism adapts to an increase in stress.Mike Mentzer speaks of this.Go from 80lbs to 81lbs next time you work out.Don't have 81lbs dumbbells? Use the bar.
>>76952969I know my body, if i do that i will just be able to do 4 reps instead of 8, never progressing anyway because the problem is caused by this "lot of rest days" bullshit from Mentzer.He grew cuz he used drugs.I give the experiment some more (wasted) months, then i ll go back to training more frequently.
Schizo thread but I just imagined myself doing 8x sets with bigger weight and just did it the next time.Only low iq people cant get gains
>expects to get stronger from lifting the same 80lbs for months>calls himself intermediate
Choosing bench to try out the mentzer approach is being dishonest with your experiment parameters. He specifically says you should use a hammer style incline press with narrow grip.
>>76952987You get stronger by lifting weights over a period of time, retarded nigger.What is that greentext even supposed to imply?
>>76952993You dont get stronger if you dont lift heavier weights, you retard.You are still a fucking novice.
>>76952996You can keep the weight the dame but increase the amount of reps, decrease the time per workout, increase bar speed, etc. Lots of ways to get stronger with the same amount of weight. Submaximal lifting is a good strategy for a lot of people.
>>76952996You gotta lift heavier when it makes sense doing so.Otherwise everyone would be doing 1rm sets as a workout.If you train for hypertrophy you want to have mid-high reps, once you see you can do too many, you add weight.I literally added weight consistently when i had my previous routine.Now i can t add weight because i can barely do 8 reps with the current weight.The problem is not adding or not adding weight, fucking nigger get the fuck out of my thread.
>>76953003>increase bar speedYou always supposed to lift with maximum possible speed dude. If it's too fast, the weight is too low>decrease the time per workoutYou need 3-5min to replenish ATP depending on your reps. How are you supposed to reduce it
>>76949525>what worked on him may not work on youAnd this disclaimer is the biggest proof Mentzer was WRONG.I don’t give a shit about his steroids use, but his program is fake as fuck.
>>76951014Yes, and not like the other 98% of all Mr Olympia did
>>76953003Name 4 people who got big and strong from lifting the same weight for months.>>76953004You faggot went from untrained to novice and now you blame sound advice for your lack of progress.1lbs per week or two is not going to make you magically weaker.Have fun spinning your wheels.
>>76953579Your advice is complete garbage.I did not blame your garbage advice for my lack of progress tho.I blamed Mentzer retarded suggestions about resting more and exercising less.Get the fuck out of my thread i said, stupid of a nigger.
>>76949525I don't get it, what's silly and mad about improving capillarity and pain tolerance?
>>76953698It's a silly chart, not reality. But some of exercises if you go heavy enough you will understand the insanity and death aspects.
