Is this the ultimate athleticism and longevity compound?>Lowers your systemic IGF-1, so you age slower and have lower risk of cancer (as seen in Laron syndrome)>Boosts your testosterone production to maximal capacity of your testicles, so it counteracts effects of lowering IGF-1 for muscle and connective tissue growth>Blocks estrogen signaling that has aging effects as discovered by Ray Peat ( https://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging-estrogen-progesterone.shtml ) >Has no side effects
>>76970849This is what Gemini-3 Pro answered me after some discussion on the topic:>You are essentially engineering a state of "Selectively Anabolic Longevity." It is a plausible strategy to maximize healthspan (muscle/function) while minimizing neoplastic risk (cancer), but the long-term safety regarding cardiovascular and neurological health remains the unproven gamble.But we all know AI tends to be risk-averse.
>>76970851...And i fucking love gambling.
>>76970849
>>76970849>Blocks estrogen signalingStopped reading there. You know how testosterone makes a man feel, how it affects behaviour? It does this by bringing out changes in the brain, mostly associated with endurance, effort, motor control and reproductive drive. You can tell which ones these are, because those brain regions are underdeveloped when you have insufficient testosterone during puberty (cue male loneliness epidemic in anyone born after the 90s).You know how testosterone does that? Because it's converted into estrogens in the brain in order to achieve that. Estrogen signalling shapes male nervous system physiology and HPG axis signalling. You can be pretty sure that anyone talking shit about inhibiting estrogen in males doesn't know shit about endocrinology. Estrogen causes problems when there is too much estrogen relative to testosterone, which in 99.99999% of cases is due to testosterone deficiency, not excess estrogen. Estrogen is fucking crucial for males and just like most people see testosterone as some kind of toxic masculine demon, when it's in everyone's best interests to raise testosterone production for male health and happiness, you have the same brand of retard on the other side of the spectrum, who believes that any amount of estrogen in the male body is the end of the world. Fucking retards
>>76970959So you think pinning estrogen is good for you?
>>76970959>You know how testosterone does that? Because it's converted into estrogens in the brain in order to achieve that.Than females would behave same as males but they don't. Your hypothesis disproven.
>>76970987>Than females would behave same as males but they don't.Pic related.Female and male brains are sexually dimorphic, which includes ERα and ERβ signalling. Different estrogens have different effects on the development and maintenance of female and male nervous system physiology during development, and its maintenance in adulthood.>Gender Differences in Neurodevelopment and Epigeneticshttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3654067/>Estrogens in Human Male Gonadotropin Secretion and Testicular Physiology From Infancy to Late Pubertyhttps://www.frontiersin.org/journals/endocrinology/articles/10.3389/fendo.2020.00072/fullBut this is pretty basic endocrinology stuff that's already been covered since the 50s. William C. Young laid the groundwork for this with experiments on guinea pigs: https://sbn.org/about/founders.aspx
>>76971007>Female and male brains are sexually dimorphic, which includes ERα and ERβ signalling. So you suggest pinning estrogen will make male humans behave more masculine?
>>76970981No. It's about homeostatic control. It's about the entire cycle, and as a male the aim is to increase activity in the entire HPG axis. Too much of anything or too little of anything, and homeostatic control is disrupted. Or, in actually, homeostatic control works exactly as intended, and the HPG axis will reduce activity in one area in response to an excess in signalling in another. The net effect is reduced activity, since the origin of the excess signalling is not endogenous, but exogenous. So when the excess signalling is not maintained, the individual is left with a net reduction in HPG axis activity.
>>76971019No, this has already been explored. Testosterone needs to be converted into estrogen in the brain itself, in order for estrogen to mediate changes through ERα and ERβ in the male brain.
>>76971027>Testosterone needs to be converted into estrogen in the brain itself, in order for estrogen to mediate changes through ERα and ERβ in the male brain.Why? Because plain estrogen doesn't get where testosterone goes?
>>76971031>Because plain estrogen doesn't get where testosterone goes?It does, but there is barely any estrogen in male circulation, so there is not enough of it to trigger any activity in ERα and ERβ above a threshold where they affect neural architecture. Aromatase in the brain is activated by testosterone itself, so unless you have actual testosterone near sites where aromatization can feed estrogen into ERα and ERβ receptors, there will never be enough estrogen from any other possible source that can stimulate them sufficiently.>Another role highlighted for estrogens in the male: Sexual behaviorhttps://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.011526097
>>76971021So, according to your research, pinning enclomiphene, raising your test x2 with it and blocking estrogen signaling will actually decrease masculine behavior. Thanks for the information, Tails. I will consider it in future data analysis.
>>76971051So what actually triggers "feminine behavior" in males than if it's not estrogen? Or what do we call "feminine behavior" is actually just a lack of masculine behavior, sort of a baseline?
>>76971064>Or what do we call "feminine behavior" is actually just a lack of masculine behaviorI'd say so yeah.>So what actually triggers "feminine behavior" in males than if it's not estrogenThere are so many factors and stages of development that affect this, it's mindboggling. What more people are not aware of is that female and male development happens in four directions, not two (so not just female and male). There's masculinization, feminization, demasculinization and defeminization. Males require both masculinizing effects during development as well as defeminizing effects. A lack of either results in defects in male functioning and reproductive systems. The same goes for female who need feminizing as well as demasculinizing effects during their development. There are stages where this happens during development, affected by levels of estrogens and androgens in the womb, genes of the fetus, foods eaten by the mother during pregnancy, immune system activity in the mother during pregnancy, environmental factors during infancy (food, pollution, behaviour), childhood, puberty, drug use, etc. etc. etc. In turn, how male and female physiology takes shape affects how the activity of estrogens and androgens affects signals sent through the nervous system. So it's a constant back and forth between the activity of estrogens and androgens shaping the development of the nervous system, and the physiology of the nervous system affecting the production and release of estrogens and androgens, and then the activity of estrogens and androgens subsequently affect the physiology of the nervous system, etc. etc.Also, the brain and nervous system are one single organ. This is why physical activity has such a big impact on mental health and cognitive function, and male/female behaviour patterns.
>>76970849From what I read clomid has potential side effects of permanent vision issues and enclo is just the active ingredient of clomid
>>76971080You seem very intelligent and learned in this topic. Do you think this new drug has potential in boosting testosterone and subsequently masculine behavior/mood?https://www.ergo-log.com/fructosyl-leucine-elderberries-testosterone.htmlWhat do you think of possibility of testosterone boosting in general?
>>76971154>enclo is just the active ingredient of clomidYes, it's the other ingredient that produces vision problems.
>>76970959This. I'd argue for health even in men you'd be better choosing total testosterone deficiency over oestrogen.
>>76971080Asked AI about this>Estradiol exerts antidopaminergic effects that are protective: it suppresses dopamine synthesis (via bidirectional ERα/β control of tyrosine hydroxylase) and reduces dopamine release in response to stimulants, making males more resistant to psychosis-inducing dopamine hyperactivity than females who show robust estradiol-induced dopamine amplification.Kek, so that's why women are so psychotic.
>>76970959When I was hypogonadal, my testosterone was ~200 ng/dL and estradiol around 15 pg/mL. On 100mg/wk TRT my numbers are 900 ng/dL total testosterone, 250 pg/mL free testosterone, and 40 ng/dL estradiol. Despite estrogen going up, my nipples have basically lost all sensitivity and puffiness compared to when I was hypogonadal and I feel far more masculine and energized. Demonising estrogen is retarded. Taking aromatase inhibitors when you don't have breast cancer is doubly retarded.
>>76971283>40 ng/dL estradiolpg/mL*, oops
>>76971283>Taking aromatase inhibitors when you don't have breast cancer is doubly retarded.Yeah and it's been doing the rounds on /fit/ and the old bodybuilding.com forums for almost 20 years now. Taking aromatase inhibitors as a male is pretty much the hormonal equivalent to sticking a needle right in your testicle. Crazy to think how many men have sabotaged themselves over the years by taking aromatase inhibitors, not knowing that instead of boosting testosterone activity, they are reducing activity in their entire reproductive systems.
So much effortposting wasted because op is just gonna keep making retarded le test boost threads forever
>>76970849>Blocks estrogen signalingNah. I'm on the stuff myself and they put me on an aromatase inhibitor to keep the test i was getting from turning into estrogen.
>>76972641>Nah.What do you mean "nah"? It's literally how it works. It's why it boosts testosterone and lowers IGF-1. >they put me on an aromatase inhibitor to keep the test i was getting from turning into estrogen.Your doctors are retarded.
>>76972682I mean tbf, I apparently over-responded to plain daily enclo and it bumped my shit up from 700 to 1500 in a few months, which led to a lower dose and the introduction of the aromatase inhibitor
>>76971611>op is just gonna keep making retarded le test boost threads foreverNo, now i will make le estrogen boost threads.
>>76972694>which led to a lower dose and the introduction of the aromatase inhibitorWhich doesn't makes sense at all.
>>76972704How so?
>>76970849IGF-1 is actually good for you and important for muscle growth.T can only do so much on its own.Estrogen is also good for you.>>76971080Most of this happens in the womb, during puberty it is primarily about virilization.
>>76970849When I tried to look up the price on goodrx it just showed clomid/clomiphene and the sources I checked just had clomid as well
>>76973299Apparently it's legal to get in the US but you need a prescription and it has to be through a compounding pharmacy
