is that bit about "you cant build muscle and lose fat at the same time" in the wiki real? because that would suck REALLY hard.
>>76993089it's highly debated but the difference is between what is scientifically possible and what is realistic. Realistically you need to be in an anabolic state which requires caloric surplus
>>76993089It's skill issues. Lot more goes into body composition than just calories.
That's a bs that true only for roiders.If you are a beginner, you can absolutely lose your fat and build muscles at the same time. On advamced level it would be hard, but still possible
>>76993089It's true for anyone that's not a beginner or roider, who are the only two types of people that can do both. Anyone telling you otherwise is a clueless dyel, fitness e-celeb/their dickriders, or mentally impaired folk who think that just because it's a "slight" deficit/surplus instead of starvation/gomad it somehow doesn't fall under cut/bulk paradigm and that "maingaining" just magically happens by itself for seasoned lifters.
My conclusion after meditating this topic deeply is that bulking is an advanced tool to break plateaus, and that's about all that it is good for.
>>76993089There are exceptions if you are a newbie, detrained, fat, etc. I have gained muscle and strength on a cut, but I started fat. It’s really hard to do when youre just cutting from like 18->12% though
>>76993089If you want to lose fat, that usually means you're overweight, in which case recomping works perfectly fine. Only when you have low fat is it difficult.The only reason bodybuilders bulk and cut is they have to be at unhealthy shit low body fat on stage.
>>76993089Sadly it is true. Similar to babies in the womb: first the skeleton grows, then the nerve system, brain etc etc. Everything in the right order.
I spent 8 months going through the USCG helicopter rescue swimmer selection/schoolhouse and we did 8+ hours of exercise a day, mostly swimming but tons of sprinting and land workouts too. I finished WAY leaner and with more muscle mass than when I started, so take that for what it's worth
>>76993089It's true, BUUT, if you wana build muscle, you only need a 200 kcal daily caloric surplus as a natty. So legit, of you have self control and don't overshoot, it's not bad.
>>76993089I spent 2025 basically proving that wrong because someone made me mad on the internet about it. But I was quite fat which some people will agree makes it possible. Logged all calories but it was making me mental so I stopped that in the fall.
fat cope tbqh
>>76993089It's real in all but extreme edge cases for obesity and with steroids. But you can most certainly build muscle and lose fat in the same week easily.
>>769930892hrs-1mo get a life
>>76993089Depends.The more fat you have and the less muscle you have the more likely you can do it.After some time it get pretty difficult.Pic related, shitty diet but clean and irregular gym.But look what simple diet restriction and weight lifting produce, took me about 6 months.After that I didn't gain any muscles and didn't lose any weight.
>>76993089It's possible. Granted you won't become a muscle monster but it's ok, I don't want it either. Running+lifting and balanced diet is one way ticket to building muscle, losing fat, building endurance and vo2max and natty sculpting your body into a goat tier physique.
>>76993199When the pp grow? Still waiting
>>76993089that's something for competing bodybuilders. so it does not apply for over 99% of this boards users
>>76993089Pic 2 is when I got fed up sticking around 195 after losing all the weight and doing one meal every other day fasting for 5 weeks with a fuckhueg 300g protein meal then going back into the fast and doing a fasted HIT workout before eating again. IF you listened to ninnies, reddit, and that awful out of date sticky that was disinfo by the time I came to /fit/ back in 2013 then yes, but no.IF you eat enough protein, exploit HIT principals for myostatin suppression, and are willing to play with fasting for growth hormone boosting (even skipping dinner is enough to get the effect of pinning 3iu of GH) then anything is possible. I only gained strength coming down to 200 from 293 btw, though my dumbass was in boxing for 3 years so I saw no real strength gains until I picked up with HIT calisthenics (literally only 1set chinups/1 arm pushups to failure) until 2 years ago before going for real heavy duty in the gym again.
>>76993091Doesnt a fat guy have like 350,000 calorie surplus in his waist line?
>>76993089not necessarily but you would have to have all your variables in check and understand nutrition and training well. for retards it is better to go through bulk/cut cycles
anyone saying that roids let you build muscle and burn fat at the same time are natty retards with no idea what they're talking about.Maybe you can with high doses of tren but that's debatable
>>76993089Last year I cut about 8kg from 85kg to 77kg at 6'1" and kept making strength gains through the whole year. Im 31 and have been lifting for many years so its not noob gains either. Purely anacdotal but im 100% convinced you can lose weight and still build muscle at the same time and i have a theory as to why. Everyone measures their TDEE based on their current weight, and anything below that is considered a caloric "deficit" that causes you to lose mass (including muscle). What that doesn't really account for is that, if you want to lose weight, then your current TDEE does not match the TDEE of your ideal weight. Theoretically, the TDEE you should be working with is the TDEE for whatever your goal weight is, and as long as youre eating at a surplus for that TDEE, even if youre at a deficit for yoir CURRENT TDEE you should still be able to build muscle as long as youre protein intake is sufficient.
>>76995633you might be disabled. you don't take one TDEE and work with that forever. actively recalculate it. how so? with the weigh-ins you're supposed to be doing every 13 days.
It's not 'not,' real it just takes longer. I just never cared to cut/bulk and decided to do body recomp instead. I'm going on 1.2 years and am not noticing a vast difference then before. So much so that it's obvious girls notice and stare me down in the gym. So yes it's possible but also it'll take longer. For me though I enjoy it more as I don't feel like it's a hassle and it's just me cutting out snacks and random calories instead of 'ok I already ate 2000k calories I can't eat anything else today.'
>>76995633But it took you 1 year to lose 8kg. You could have done that in 2 months with a proper cut then spend the rest of year gaining much more muscle on a proper bulk while already being leaner.
>>76995664Sure but I can't be bothered doing cuts and bulks and putting all that effort in when im happy with the progress im making in the time its taking me. Im not trying to min-max my fitness to optimise the time it takes me to hit a super specific goal, I just exercise and eat what I feel like within reason. Im very lax with my fitness stuff and even so, I lost weight and gained muscle at the same time, meaning its possible.
>>76995664>>76995706To add to that, I wasn't overweight to begin with. I'm currently ~77kg at 6'1", i dont need to lose too much more than that, if any. Just wanted to look a little leaner.
>>76995651How does that contradict anything I said? I mentioned current vs ideal TDEE so obviously im aware that your TDEE doesn't stay the same. Did you skim read or are you confused about something?
you said to work with a TDEE of a weight that they aren't at. you specifically said their goal weight. if someone is at 190lbs with a goal of 160lbs it would be beyond retardation for them to work with a TDEE @ 160lbs. you are the one who is confused. go reread your own post
>>76995732Why? As long as they're eating above the TDEE for 160lbs and below the TDEE for 190lbs, why would they not lose weight while continuing to gain muscle? I'm not talking about a guy whose lean at 190 going down to an equally lean 160, in my scenario I'd be talking about a guy who has at least 30lbs worth of extra fat to lose.
>>76995562Yeah which is why most old school power building programs recommend fat beginners to cut weight through cleaning up their diets, while skellies are prescribed to eat more.As a beginner you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. If you're fat as fuck you can probably do the same for a while. As an intermediate and beyond at 12-18% bf, you are realistically not going to be able to or it's going to be extremely slow.As a beginner, stop getting lost in the details, lift the weights on any proven program/methodology of your choice and eat clean and your body will change.
>>76993089No. Retards who say that don't understand what body fat is for.
>>76993089cutting/recomp/bulking is retard reddit-tier shiteat at maintenance while follow a bodybuilding program and youll lose weight while building muscle
>>76997251cutting and bulking were only really ever implemented because of roiding and cycling chems, it's fucking stupid that it got so prevalent that normies are going to the gym and doing these and building up tiny amounts of muscle just to completely destroy and lose it because they're running an 8 week prep-like cut they saw on tiktok and aren't using any bathtub chems to help keep the muscle mass. And then eventually they give up after 2-3 years and go on roids anyway.John heart (one of Mentzer's own coaches/friends) and his black friend on youtube say for natties it's literally best to stay around 16% bf year round, eat at maintenance or slightly more and then get walking/cardio/sports in as needed to keep the fat from climbing.
>>76993089No.>>76993091There's no such thing as a "anabolicstate".You will haemorrhage muscle by stopping all form of exercise even if you eat a 2000 caloric surplus.>>76993101If you can't build muscle while losing bodyfat there's something seriously wrong.>>76993117Not true.>>76993132Bulking in itself does not build any muscle.>>76993137Nope.>>76997251>>76998774This.
