>>76996204
steroids wont fix whatever fucked up neck problem you have.
That fact that think steriods are some magic healing potion already tells me you have no business taking them

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>>76996204
>ligament skill issues
>seen multiple doctors for this with shitty results and have even done prp
Few milligrams of picrel and many grams of some collagen pepetides probably gonna do more than PRP, TRT or a bunch more quacks.

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>>76996204
You can't fix spinal degradation with either of those.

Only thing that can fix spinal degradation is light exercise, hydration, proper micros, and good posture.
The major joints of the body only receive nutrients via osmosis and they do this in horrible inefficiency which is why 99% of all men by age 60 have some form of degradation.
>can it be reversed
yes
>can it be completely cured
no

Regards to your "ligaments" or tendons.
Uptake vitamin C foods, magnesium foods, vitamin D, and collagen (not meat).
While both stretching and working out the collagen based structures.
Why
>vitamin C
helps recycle utilized collagen sources in the body during autophagy. your body pisses out a lot of everything it doesn't need, but during sleep your body can utilize vitamin C to prevent collagen amino acids from being wasted.
>magnesium
most people who supplement vitamin D have depleted bone magnesium resulting in chronic conditions
>vitamin D
prevents tendon damage at bone insertion and can help alleviate chronic joint pain at the bone connection
>collagen
in opposition to meat amino acids, you must actually uptake collagen sources. it's not optional. anything collagen related in the body pain wise is a direct correlation with low collagen amino acids levels.
no eating more meat will not help, your body can only digest so much in a daily cycle and the conversion rate is abysmal from meat>collagen
the body mass risk from eating such levels of meat would also further damage the spine.
collagen in all models is the most efficient method for nutrient delivery. proven by the fact in all models chronic pain is reduced and mobility increased once collagen uptake has happened. no matter how small the degree is seen it still benefitted the person.

>stretching and working out
ligaments and tendons only respond to TUT (time under tension) all models show 4 minutes weekly is the bare minimum necessary to show any modulation within a year period.
cont-

>>76996239
>>76996204
cont-
>b-but i do work out
sure you do, but do you have literally 4 minutes of constant tension in a lengthened position upon the ligament or tendon?
no, no you don't.
even if you hold for 1 second at tension during any exercise and do 3x20 of an exercise.
you would only have 60 seconds of time under tension.
we want 4 minutes minimum of direct focus on the problem tendon every week.
stretching is not an option, it is mandatory.
for actual workout focuses and its benefits though.
You still need to workout
why?
>muscle/tendon health at the insertion point where the two connect
>counterbalance system where the muscle pulls on the tendon (providing passive TUT)
>fluidity between various fibers muscle and/or collagen
etc

If done correctly the tendons will become flexible AND strong, preventing hypermobility.
hypermobility is just a term that means "i don't actually use this".
So use it.
Once proper posture is achieved, damage to any joint will drastically reduce and begin recovery, once again it will never fully recover, but we are talking about being able to achieve near full recovery.
swelling of the used area will provide abundant nutritional support for any joint that is damaged and assure it has what it needs to repair.

>>76996239
>collagen
Anon, respectfully, I thought the redpill consensus was that collagen is a gimmick for a quick cashgrab, and that it is nothing more than a low quality (as in its amino acid profile) protein source.

>>76996213
>>76996238
>>76996239
Thanks, I think I’m dumb for considering steroids but just desperate you know. Ligament issues deems to be affecting my thumbs too so you know just desperate.

>>76996274
What website have you been using?
/fit/ has for over a decade repeatedly have threads sometimes multiple times a week with hundreds of citations that collagen supplementation is the way.
No one is telling you to buy shill peptides m8.
Supplementing collagen means adding more food sources, sometimes cooking with broth base, gelatins, etc.
Even using the peptide argument, amino acid to amino acid collagen is still more efficient money wise, since a single dosage of collagen is all that is needed for your entire day supply for a cheaper cost than the lmao 10 scoops needed to even get close to collagen.
literal citation average protein powder has only .45g of glycine vs collagen peptide having 4g of glycine.
This isn't even accounting the proline, hydroxyproline, etc that is just better ratio in collagen food sources.

That's like that faggot who says he eats chicken skin every day, so we did the math and found out he would have to be eating around 16 chicken thigh/drum skins daily, every single day to even come close.
Meat amino acid conversion to collagen amino acid is quantifiably abysmal, it is for pure survival purposes only giving you an avenue of collagen production if literally no other food source exist because you just die without collagen since it is 30% of your bodies physical needs.

So let me calm down a bit here since I will assume you're doing this in good faith.
Yes many collagen peptide products are a scam, no I don't support you buying them overpriced and no you shouldn't fall for the hype of the product.
However, having used these I can tell you for a fact that doing 6 month load into maintenance while being in my 30s I had a objective performance increase across the board, joints hurt less, skin looked better, hair got thicker, I can't think of a single thing that didn't improve.
and I did this while also losing about 5 pounds.
Increasing meat didn't help, changing my macro in other ways didn't help.
cont-

>>76996274
>>76996302
cont-
It was simple, I just didn't ingest enough collagen in my diet, period.

Glycine is conditionally mandatory in a diet.
If you get it abundantly, it becomes not mandatory, but if you don't get it abundantly it switches to mandatory with increasing priority with every passing day that you don't eat it. until it has highest priority and for some reason they don't teach you guys that as children.
Collagen amino acids have the highest glycine spread period.
So while it can be a scam.
If you have switched to mandatory category or have been deficient for long periods of time (years potentially).
Bro, it is actually the only supplement that will just be proven to just work.

Tendons are the only major source of collagen stores and they can take many months or years to replenish their stores.
So the multi month load + maintenance cycle was created.
That is two collagen sources daily, for as many months as it takes to have your first week with quantifiable improvement every day of that week (usually takes 6 months, sometimes 9).
Once you reach that point you switch to one collagen source daily and maintain.
If pain gets worst again, you just don't get enough collagen sources period in your diet.
If pain goes away and stays away, you can attempt to cut back to half serving until eventually you have your new macro ratio which is
Collagen (serving to maintain)>protein (any source to body composition amount)>fat and/or carb at whatever ratio you desire.

>>76996323
How do you figure out if it's quality collagen? What brand are you using?

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>>76996323
>>76996274
final note
we added that last part to stop keto/vegan shills from making arguments and shitposting up collagen threads because they kept disrupting the conversation.

by creating this macro ratio we bypass any arguments they try to sell us.
You have to get all the amino acids to maintain 30% body composition, followed by protein, followed by whatever cult diet fat/carb ratio you want to to have.

Which leads us to 36% collagen diet.
pic related, maintain all the muscle mass you did before, while drastically increasing tendon strength.

>>76996302
>>76996323
Just eat some pork scratchings. They are mostly skin and the main protein in skin is collagen

>>76996340
If you're a eurofag, those guys have pretty transparent testing for most things. so it's just a matter of pricepoint.

If you're americanfag, it can be a bit tricky.
I buy collagen when it goes on sale for instance from somewhat reputable brands.
women see "use by this date" and won't touch it.
meanwhile the dry protein is still viable for many many months after.
which adds to this being way cheaper than using protein powder or eating more meat.
since i am supplementing collagen at 1/2 cost almost always.
you couldn't get this much protein anywhere else as cheap as i'm getting it unless you shot the deer yourself so to speak.
I buy 4 at a time and i'm good for basically the rest of the year.

i think final note, all protein powders have lead and other toxins, plant based ones have way higher levels also.
so if you're worried about that kind of thing, supplementing the lowest amount for the most bang for your buck is a factor here.
or
you can just eat more broths, gelatins, etc once again. I am not shilling nothing here.
I buy this shit only on sale the rest of the time I eat a lot of stews and whatnot and only supplement on days I have no other source in my diet.

>>76996366
I mean I do, but I don't really want to eat a bowl of porn rinds every single day m8.

>>76996376
Interesting anon. I hadn't heard of conversion rates to collagen amino acids or loading phases. I will look into it, thank you for the info.

>>76996466
Oh i'm sure you have anon
I'm sure you seen someone supplementing glutamine or glutamate or any numerous other supplements and the reason they do this is because of the abysmal conversion rate.
those faggots are literally supplementing something that you can just get by eating a non meme diet.

happens all the time, all of these supplements most people use daily exist for problems that are almost solely connected to muscular/skeletal issues, which all derives from either
>you don't eat enough collagen, get enough sunshine, or don't eat a real diet high in micros
if the conversion rate was actually a healthy one, humans would basically have no need to ever supplement anything.
it's always some anon lying to himself about how his diet is solid, but he NEEDS to supplement x, y, or z thing.

Reality is we don't get enough sunshine, we don't eat the right kinds of foods, and we are seeing decreasing amounts of magnesium in our food supplies both because of rampart over farming and secondly because magnesium is destroyed by most cooking methods. add the two together and you're barely getting enough magnesium to sustain life let alone thrive.

>>76996548
Depending on what part of the country you are in, or where you get your food, magnesium might be fine. One of the types of lime that was commonly added (usually to adjust ph) was half magnesium.

Unless you're testing soil, food, or yourself, I think it's probably just a wild-assed guess whether any particular mineral is lacking.
>>76996344
30% or 36% of what? I haven't read collagen threads.

>>76996204
Try carnivore for a month first, you might not need to.
But it sounds like you want to anyway so whatever

>>76996376
>>76996548
Based anon, w take
I wish you all the best and thanks for spreading knowledge

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>>76996690
what are you talking about?
magnesium deficiency is a world wide problem, unless you are growing food yourself it is basically impossible to actually get reliable magnesium sources.
>b-but you didn't test it yourself
I do not need to test it myself, blind study at random food sources have been tested across the board.
Hell I'm being conservative by saying 1/3rd, but jeetAI is claiming up to 90%.
The average food source has had a 1/3rd decline in magnesium amount since 1920.

I don't think you understand just how fundamentally apocalyptic that is.
Here let me give you a list
>diabetes
low magnesium
>nerve pain
low magnesium
>spread of disease
linked to low magnesium
>arthritis
low magnesium
>every joint condition not related to arthritis
linked to low magnesium
>low vitamin D
low magnesium (you can have abundant vitamin D, but it can't activate without magnesium)
>low bone density
magnesium is essential for the bone matrix
>ed
low magnesium
>female fertility
low magnesium
>cancer rates up
320 biomechanics processes require magnesium in the human body, over 200 of those processes relate to physical efficiency in relation to the cardiovascular system and its ability to maintain itself.

Oh and guess what, it's nearly impossible to test for low magnesium, because of the fact that your body requires it to be in constant homeostasis or your heart just fucking dies.
So, the only way to actually test for it is to biopsy bone mass at random, grind it up, and determine its magnesium content.
Because your blood work will show perfect magnesium levels right up until the point you are about to start spazzing out from heart problems.
Your body will only store magnesium if you are at strict abundance for numerous months and of all the supplements it is the hardest to actually raise.
Since it requires small, micro embedding painfully day after day into the bone matrix until total saturation occurs.
You're fucked m8

>>76997714
>unless you are growing food yourself
I do, that's why I talked about testing soil. Mine isn't one of them, but there are places where magnesium is high and will never not be high because of the parent material. Saying it is generally low may well be right, most people get their slop from certain areas of the country. I'm not 'anti-magnesium' or anything I just think supplementation in general is mostly flailing in the dark.
>jeetAI
if you know how bad it is, don't use it. 'I saw it in a dream' is a better argument


I still want to know about the collagen thing, I have only read about it in very old sources.

I'm eatin some pork rinds rn, gristlepill me on collagen bros

>>76997714
>Everyone is in a state of low magnesium
>You cant test for low magnesium because when your magnesium if low, you die.
@grok what does OP mean?

>>76999406
They can test for magnesium post death anon, it's very simple since you're fucking dead.
We have decades now of track record showing with each year magnesium concentration in the bone matrix has lowered.
>>76998191
>mine isn't one of them
and if you started farming, it quickly would become one of them.
that's how farming works.

>>76999184
it's the cheapest basic bitch skin mogging pepetide and helps a decent bit with everything from tendon to ligament skill issues, but foods aren't quite an S-tier source compared to supplements unironically.

I just pop 4 grams of glycine caps a day because it tastes nice

>>76999410
>We have decades now of track record showing with each year magnesium concentration in the bone matrix has lowered.
Show us then

When you guys talking about collagen supplements you guys are talking about oral ones right? Should I also take magnesium supplements?

>>76996204
do whatever you want baldy