If we exclude steroids, SARMs and growth hormone secretagogues, what would be the most potent anabolic drugs and substances?
HMB (The butrate kind) - significant reduction of catabolism of musucle you don't train. It's oral.Boron 6mg a dayD3 5k+ iu a day more if you live north of Florida.ZincAExogenic: pine tree polen contains actual testosterone but you need a lot.DAA raises tCitruline arginine when taken together.Magnesium at night,B6Cholesterol from diet is key your body makes most of it, but adequate intake supports synthesis.Tongkat Ali (maybe).Go for things that raise dht.
>>77184664>Go for things that raise dht.Why?
>>77184664>Boron 6mg a dayI heard that boron raises estrogen and turns you into a tranny
>>77184667>oh no not my precious hairqueer
>>77184643Eggs and whole milk
>>77184832Eat white button mushrooms or eat more zinc. Both reduce circulating estrogenOr go on enclomiphene. Shit basically has no sides unless you COMPLETELY tank e, then you'll start looking like Elon
SunshineFatsOnionsGood ball temps (stop wearing underwear)Looking at naked women
>>77184836DHT is a trash hormone regardless of hair loss that it causes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD4QyuPiyWY&list=PLXoKcD0kKb9bMHV9YJcXcJcuPI5PjO1pj&index=23
>>77185139>listening to a vegan man with the vocal register of a woman and a youtube channel dedicated to hair loss spend an hour trying to explain why humanity's most potent androgen is akshualy a bad thingnah i'm good bro
>>77185401>Ad hominem
Growth hormone and insulin obviously
>>77184643I'm on 20mg trestolone per day with 250mg/week test base.Holy shit this is the most potent compound I ever took even more so than anadrol or tren.My previous blast was 2000mg test and some primo and mast and my current cycle blows it out of the water.The best thing is I feel great with no side effects (well not the side effects you can feel lol).I'm also taking 100mg proviron/day which for me does a good job of blocking high estrogen side effects.A bit water and RHR is slightly elevated at about 80bpm. Sleep is pretty shitty and sweaty but melatonin takes care of that.No high blood pressure or high E2 symptoms that trestolone is know for.
>>77185609con't:oh nevermind op said non-steroidsThe answer to that is nothing.
>>77185414no, i'm suggesting there's a direct relationship between what this man puts inside his body and what comes out of it
>>77185628He mogs you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjf5YHJTRQs
>>77184643>im too much of pussy to do steroids
>>77185641I'm not against steroids but they are overrated desu. You gain a lot of weight at first but it's mostly water and that's why your growth rate quickly diminishes. Strength gains are only like +15%. More interesting steroids like proviron or halotestin are under-researched.
>>77185652nta, but where to do you natty retards come up with this shit? You have no idea what you're talking about. It doesnt even make sense.Proviron is a prescription med its not "under-researched"
>>77184643Ack-shilling, anti-catabolics like the classes of MuRF-1 (Trim63) and atrogin-1 (MAFbx/Fbxo32) inhibitors/downregulators, along with GSK3-beta inhibitors, take away most of the endogenous gainz goblin properties of anabolics by disrupting the "core" of the muscle breakdown feedback loop.
>>77185656>nta, but where to do you natty retards come up with this shit? I watch roiders actually. >Proviron is a prescription med its not "under-researched"Most of research on it is from 90s and before, and is quite dubious. For example, there's still no concrete data on relationship between SHBG levels and doses at which proviron starts to negatively affect HPTA axis.
>>77185657But MuRF-1 is cardioprotective?
>>77185672>But MuRF-1 is cardioprotective?>"ischemia/reperfusion (I/R) injury"Not in an *ordinarily* necessary or beneficial way, only if you've just recently almost ACK'd. Also quercetin happens to be an example of a MuRF-1 inhibitor that's also cardioprotective by inhibiting platelet activation.
>>77184643Interval training. Jumping rope.
yeah its insulin or IGF-1but I will assume the spirit of the question did not include those. I feel like the humble marijuanna is very slept on as it both increases appetite and will also increase the amount you are sleeping, being high is also going to lower your cortisol cause you aren't worried about shit. Pretty damn anabolic imo
>>77185657>MuRF-1 (Trim63) and atrogin-1 (MAFbx/Fbxo32) inhibitors/downregulatorsMifepristone exerts great effect on both of these. Do you think this guy might be correct? https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/9257/are-microdoses-of-mifeprestone-the-ultimate-receptor-level-anti-glucorticoid
>>77185698doesn't look like there is a ton of evidence to say if he's right or not, but there is evidence that those proteins are independent of the glucorticoid pathway: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpregu.00561.2006the sesquinolignan compound family and 3-(4-Hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl) propionic acid are both fairly potent knockdown strategies among others.
>>77184643what is this tier list meant to convey
>>77184667Cuz dht is twice as potent as straight testYou're going bald because of caffeine, not dht
>>77184664A high fat high fiber diet is keyCitrulline and arginine are the same thing. You take arginine and it immediately gets stripped to citrulline Tongkat ali, rhodiola, panax ginseng and ashwa (I recommend rhodiola out of these) are all herbal cortisol suppressants so if you actually train heavy at volume at frequency, it will help not having stress reactions
>>77185732yeah what the fuck. it’s a drug list, i guess, so it’s going by what feels best? or is anabolic? how the fuck does any of this relate>S tier: going to the pharmacy(?), strong beers, nutmeg, amanita muscaria>A: anime tits, cigarettes, young foids, take away pizza>B: weed, cocaine>C: kissing/relationships, some PS2 vidya game??>D: owning a cat/being a cat(???), having a baby, sports, fucking dying and being put in a graveyard?
>>77186101>dht is twice as potent as straight testIt's getting broken down in muscles by 3α-HSD.
>>77184643bump
>>77184643Ready for some mechanisms of action str8 out da Shenzhen psych ward?>Protective Role of Ethanol Extract of Cibotium barometz (Cibotium Rhizome) against Dexamethasone-Induced Muscle Atrophy in C2C12 Myotubes>https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10573348/>Effects of Ulmus macrocarpa Extract and Catechin 7-O-β-D-apiofuranoside on Muscle Loss and Muscle Atrophy in C2C12 Murine Skeletal Muscle Cells>https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/46/8/491>Ficus lindsayana Leaf Extract Protects C2C12 Mouse Myoblasts Against the Suppressive Effects of Bisphenol-A on Myogenic Differentiation>https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/26/2/476>Squalene mitigates muscle atrophy via the PI3K/Akt pathway in TNF-α-stimulated C2C12 myotubes and immobilization-induced C57BL/6J mice: Y. Kim et al.>https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10068-025-02058-9>Trichosanthes kirilowii Maximowicz attenuates dexamethasone induced atrophy in C2C12 myotubes through a Sirtuin 1 associated mechanism>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-28257-2>Potato protein hydrolysate (PP902) inhibits dexamethasone‐induced muscle atrophy by regulating MuRF1 and MAFbx expression in C2C12 myotubes in vitro>https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jsfa.70371>Microsorum Membranaceum (D. Don) Ching Protected Dexamethasone-Induced Sarcopenia by Targeting Protein Degradation and Synthesis Pathway in C2c12 Cells and C57bl/6 Mice>https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5371525
>>77184643Carnivore diet
>>77187091Bro, i think you shall really cut your metformin addiction - looks like It not only causes dementia due to anticholinergic burden but also sarcopenia... >Metformin induces muscle atrophy by transcriptional regulation of myostatin via HDAC6 and FoxO3ahttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34725961/
>>77187194>metformin addictionLast time I ran that shit was like 15 years ago with MK-677 to not get diabetes, do all kinder of weirder antidiabetics now like banaba and berberine.
>>77187228Fine, but are you using advanced anti-glycaiton compounds like benfotiamine to inhibit glucosepane accumulation? Haven't seen anything like it in your stack.
>>77187237>using using advanced anti-glycaiton compoundsmostly low-temperature acid-cooking, especially of meats, but also more deranged China shit like RAGE inhibitors, and different kinds of endogenous detoxification system enhancement.
>>77187332>>77187228>>77187091>>77185684Post body
>>77187351Sorry LGBTQ++BBQ-PQQ-popper, but I'mma do u 1 better and post more C2C12 aSS-ayys fresh from Beijing Ankang Hospital (北京市安康医院)...>Chemical constituents of the Ajuga multiflora bunge and their protective effects on dexamethasone-induced muscle atrophy in C2C12 myotubes>https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786419.2022.2115491>Saponin extract from Achyranthes bidentata Blume alleviates disuse-induced muscle atrophy through PI3K/Akt signaling pathway>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874123003264>The Effect of Moringa oleifera Leaf Extract on C2C12 Myoblast Proliferation and Redox Status Under Oxidative Insult>https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/13/12/1460>Activation of IGF-1 pathway and suppression of atrophy related genes are involved in Epimedium extract (icariin) promoted C2C12 myotube hypertrophy>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-89039-0>Effects of Alnus japonica Hot Water Extract and Oregonin on Muscle Loss and Muscle Atrophy in C2C12 Murine Skeletal Muscle Cells>https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/17/12/1661>Effect of Pinoresinol and Vanillic Acid Isolated from Catalpa bignonioides on Mouse Myoblast Proliferation via the Akt/mTOR Signaling Pathway>https://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/27/17/5397>Alkaloids and Terpenoids fractions from T. cordifolia mitigate sarcopenia-induced skeletal muscle degeneration through modulation of Akt and IL-6 signaling pathways>https://pubs.thesciencein.org/journal/index.php/cbl/article/view/a1752Identification of Withania somnifera-Silybum marianum-Trigonella foenum-graecum Formulation as a Nutritional Supplement to Contrast Muscle Atrophy>https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/1/49>Rosa rugosa promotes muscle hypertrophy and prevents atrophy in C2C12 myoblasts: K. Heeju et al.>https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10068-024-01803-w>t. high-tier plant-doper who ain't vegan
>>77187366>who ain't veganCan you share your meat cooking recipes?
>>77187366Also what do you think of eggs... Are they a better alternative to meat from position of AGEs and HAAs? Interested in your protein sources overall.
>>77187394>>77187400My top anti-AGE strategy with meats is lime juice; pre-marinating for days in high concentrations and then mostly cooking at 150F (65C) to 180F (82C) in acidic solution. I average a couple eggs a day plus fairly diverse meat consumption, although somewhat higher fish than red meat.
>>77188166what kind of fish and blackpill me on the best carb choice? I go with potatoes and chicken thighs as a bread and butter meal
>>77188180I also keep fish and carb intakes fairly diverse. Salmon, tuna, pollock. mackarel, deenz, and whitefish are the top fishes roughly in order but also some calamari, shrimp, lobster, crab, etc. Best carb might be sweet potatoes or sourdough bread or broccoli, but I also do a fair amount of brussels sprouts, okra, asparagus, tomatoes, and others.
