>>77213852
this is all meaningless if you're not used to lifting weights and having and don't have a good sense of muscle isolation/which muscles are working and which are not - this will be like getting into a 4x4 performance rally car after just getting a driver's license..
also, an overcomplicated excel spreadsheet is higher likelihood of you not following through with it. get a small notepad or notes app, start with compound barbell lifts (squat, bench, deadlift, row) to get a feel of routine, write your progress down for a few months and then with better understanding of your body you'll be able to adjust your regimen and add stuff.

keep it simple stupid

>>77213856
I'm autistic, I like optimizing and excel.
Also I want to start bodybuilding, I don't believe in compounds for hypertrophy. Sure for overall health go at it. But for total muscle fatigue and amount of effective reps.

I want two things for any exercise otherwise I don't believe in it.

Stability - you can't tell me even 30% of gym goers can go 100% with squat or deadlift. They will be limited by technique and stability. I don't want to get good at a movement. I want muscle stimulus.

Isolation
Sure a compound targets 4 things.
But what failed? What muscle gave up first? How do I know exactly? And then I need extra volume for the muscles that din't fail because no way did they get an effective stimulus. Not even mentioning body mechanics and how that affects muscle growth and hypertrophy in compounds.

Like I'm 6'4 with long femurs. Squatting is fun and I do some pistol squats for fun sometimes, but it will never be the most effective for me for muscle growth.

So please I need someone familiar with isolation training to comment.

Yeah I kind of agree with the others

If you're a beginner you should focus on the main big lifts, and add isolation as seasoning on top down the line. If you have zero foundation to build on, isolation means jack shit. It's like picking the colors for your walls without having a house built. Isolation is for building up weak points, or even further enchancing things. Like if you want to hit quads, but you don't want to train the entire posterior chain with a squat. Or you do bench and then hit a specific part of the peck afterwards. Compound movements are pound for pound going to give you most lean mass for your buck, wether thats for size or for strength. And if you're a total beginner you're going to get newbie gains out the ass, the next year you'll complete change if you focus on good form compound movements. Your nervous system will also benefit more because compound is so taxing on your whole system, it'll be forced to adapt.

You're thinking about which sprinkles to put on your ice cream but you haven't even decided what ice cream you are going to get

>>77213874
>I don't believe in compounds for hypertrophy.
okay retard

>>77213879
I just can't take this seriously.
A stability exercise will not build more muscle than a stable exercise like legpress will build more muscle in a year.

Let's say it differently I'm an active guy. I could do 50kg weighted pull ups before my recent surgery but I never stepped in the gym.

I want to step on the stage of a bodybuilding show in a year of natural training.

What would be the perfect workout plan for that?

I think genetic limit can be 95% achieved within 3 years of smart lifting. Not for strength but for muscle growth.

And also a natural will not become an unstable muscle freak with isolation worm, so I'm not scared of that.

>>77213886
An unstable exercise has benefits, sure. But

3 muscles targeted to muscular failure will be a way bigger stimulus than an unstable exercise where 1 muscle might've given 80% if you're lucky before technique failed.

Also try squatting to failure 4 times a week. True failure so falling because you can't physically get up. That sucks.

And those other 2 muscles that the compound added will be stimulated not nearly enough for true hypertrophy.

So why bother

Target each of the muscles to true failure and be done with it. Training to failure without stability or technique or another muscle hindering muscle fatigue.

Like is this a crazy idea? I've only been listening to bodybuilders and their coaches saying this for hours and hours in their lectures.

Is Lyle Mcdonald truly so disproven that if he says something 100 times that it's wrong every time?

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>>77213894
I think you are maybe confusing what a compound movement is? A pull up is a compound movement because it involves multiple muscles. A leg press is a compound movement because it involves multiple muscles. Compound movements is not just bench/squat/dl.

>What would be the perfect workout plan for that?
Definitely one that includes compound lifts that's for sure. You think a body builder would step on stage never having benched, pressed or rowed in his entire life??

>>77213906
>I've only been listening to bodybuilders and their coaches saying this for hours and hours in their lectures.
this nigga spends more time listening to bodybuilders lecturing than actually lifting

>>77213909
Yes I have included a few compounds but only ones where I know 100% which muscle failed. And I can target that muscle effectively to failure.

Like ofcourse targeting lats will include a compound. Because it's just how the lat works. You can't really isolate the lat perfectly.

So yes I included rows. And I included lat pulldown. And leg press.

But overall I just want stability and knowing 100% certain which muscle I just pushed to failure.

So yes compounds are included but in a way that is acceptable to me.

>>77213915

Timeline
At 16 going to gym
Injury
Other sports
Other sports
Other sports
Major surgery
Month long travel across Asia started forming a plan and watching a bunch of fitness content.
Just got back from the trip. Got no sport subscriptions anymore and I'm hyped.

Did my first session and picked my gym (Jay Cutler was there which I really like)

And now I just need a workout plan that fits my ideas.

>>77213922
>I made an isolation workout plan except for [list of compound exercises]

>>77213932
It's isolation based. Compared to compound based. Does not mean I'm going to magically target my rhomboids without hitting anything else.

But if it is possible. Then please by all means help me make it more isolation only, that's why I asked for advice.

>>77213874
there are multiple people in this thread giving you advice that your approach as a complete beginner is wrong. you're arguing against it as someone with self-admittedly 0 experience. are you here for advice or to argue? your autism is not an excuse, minmaxxing makes no sense if you have no idea what you're talking about in practice

>>77213966
I want hypertrophy. I am being told to do deadlifts. I might be a beginner but I'm not retarded. I asked for someone with experience in isolation workouts.

If there are better exercises to target specific muscles, and if 1 hour is enough time to do this workout. Or will the lack of sets between exercises diminish the whole workout?

I think deadlifts are a fine exercise. And squats are truly great.
But I'm not a powerlifter. I'm not a strongman. And I don't want to lift just for base health.

I want to get into bodybuilding and want hypertrophy.

I have long femurs. I don't have great technique. And I want to grow fast. For my goals and my intention and my history. Squats are not ideal for hypertrophy. You don't need to be a genius to realise that.

So yes I asked for advice and yes I'm ignoring people. But nobody so far has answered my specific questions. They are giving me general lifting advice. For general goals.

I can go round and round following general lifting advice but that's not what I'm after. I chose science backed lifting advice to follow. Now I want advice on a specific workout plan.

Like the big 5 aren't so amazing that they're best for everything

CNS
Hypertrophy
Stability
General fitness
Strongman
Powerlifting
Bodybuilding

Yes they have uses. But come on I'm not listening to anyone who gives a beginner bodybuilder the advice to start deadlifting with an hour to workout.

So I will listen to anyone who points at specific things and what can be improved and who speaks about my resting strategy.

this retard is hopeless

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>>77214001

>>77214001
What about anything that I'm saying is wrong. I'm just saying general things.
"Leg press is better than squats for hypertrophy"

Like how is this wrong?

I'm not saying any exercise is bad or wrong. Only that exercises should fit someone's goal and to tell anyone who lifts for whatever reason to do the 'big five'
Is just dumb.

They have uses but they are not universal.

I'm not saying anything controversial here.

>>77213966
I never used autism as an excuse. More that he said that making spreadsheets will make me less likely to follow through. But I just like doing those things. I will make funny lil graphs and track me and my brothers progress for each lift. And probably make a lil app on our phone for the workout even though it's not needed.

Not at all an excuse. Just saying spreadsheets and optimizing it is fun to me. So I just want people to help me optimize.

Not tell me to start doing deadlifts so I can be better at deadlifts.
Oh do squats as a general hypertrophy advice. I don't agree. Especially if body mechanics could change the whole exercise. I'm not saying long femur squats are bad. But they do change the movement. Even more away from hypertrophy coincidentally.

>>77214020
post body

>>77214009
> Big 5
>They have uses but they are not universal.

My brother in Christ, reread what you just wrote.

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>>77214033
Wait 1 year please. I will prove you all wrong and be so damn big.

This was me recently before the surgery when I just did some pull ups every week. But I posted it before and everyone said my lats were so tiny so maybe add even straight arm pushdowns to the routine instead of lat pull down?

Either way this is after like 6-7 years without going to the gym.

If you don't believe in me add me on discord u/stijntje

And I will prove all of you wrong. In 1 year I'll be massive!

>>77214036
I know what I said. Please point me to anything I said that is factually untrue. And we'll talk about it.

>>77214116
This is retarded since too many people dick around in the gym for years without achieving anything beautiful.

Junk volume, targeting the wrong muscles and blaming genetics because their ass isn't phat.

>>77214047
I'm not going to argue if anything is factually untrue. However, I will reiterate what others are trying to say; a noob should absolutely include those compound exercises, at least in the beginning. You're looking to body build. Like a house being built, you should start with a strong foundation. That's all everyone is trying to tell you. Those lifts are the foundation builder.

Try this. Look up routines of any body builder you admire. I'm willing to bet they include at least 1 of the 'golden 5'

>>77214157
I get what you're saying I truly do.
But I just want every exercise to prove it's worth. Why a normal unstable row if I can do a row where my body is supported.

Houses without a stable foundation fall down. I've never heard of a guy that has massive glutes from only hip thrusts disintegrating because he didn't do his squats.

If there is evidence that those specific exercises are truly needed point me to it please.

I just don't without evidence believe that somehow I'm like a house with a bad foundation if I get big with chest flys instead of chest press.

>>77214215
jesus fucking christ you're so obtuse it hurts

Will this workout work for me as someone that has lifted before doing the basic compounds and has hit 1/2/3/4

>>77213852
Follow a real routine, you're a beginner this is way over complicated. jesus christ just read the fucking sticky. I hate zoomer so much.

>>77214225
Fuck you all. Nobody answered any of my questions. You all just want to repeat your dogma without any critical thought.

Uhh you gotta deadlift!
Why?
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO!!!

I will come back in a year and I will be shredded.

If anyone has any real advice or experience please hmu here or
Discord u/stijntje

>>77214477
rope up retard

>>77214275
Can't read the sticky, afraid I'll become just as retarded as you all.

"You're a beginner protein muscle synthesis doesn't matter. Eat whatever if's fine. Just do deadlifts for big muscles. Junk volume? Doesn't matter you're a beginner. You want a big ass yeah just do squats.

Ofcourse you didn't get big in just 1 year. You're still a beginner, and you probably have bad genetics."

Fuck you all.

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>>77214648
You’re wrong, but that’s okay. You should do your stupid routine for 3 months and report back. Maybe you figured out something everybody else has missed, but more than likely you will have little to no actual results.

Here are the problems with what you are doing:
>no objective metric to measure progress with machine oriented isolation exercises due to inconsistencies between different brands of machines
>no clear cut way to progressively overload the muscles
>targeting your underdeveloped muscles through isolations, you run a higher chance of injuries (because attempting to progressively overload/take a small stabilizer muscle to complete exhaustion will likely cause ligament/tendon damage)
>your ligaments/tendons aren’t used to being worked like you plan to work them, and they will have a hard time adapting quickly enough just to be overworked again a few days later
>the body, as a machine, performs movements through the usage of kinetic chains of muscles and the whole point of isolation exercises are to target specific weaknesses in the chain and do nothing for strengthening the chain as a whole
>by isolating specific muscles as opposed to doing compounds that hit them all at once, you run a big risk of overdeveloping random muscles which will lead to injury through muscle imbalances

Do you have any other questions?

>>77214681

Thank you for an actual response.

1. I will track progress myself not comparing to other people and using the same machines.
2. Progressively overloading is really easy. Just add small increments of weight? Why couldn't I do this?

I'm tracking everything btw.

3.I am not targeting small stabilizing muscles to failure. And also machines have way lower risk of failure since technique and stability are almost a non-issue. Ofcourse still use correct form and tempo. But injuries during deadlifting or squatting are way more common than on a leg press or hip thrust for example.
4.
So do less failure? Like this is the first thing I'm interested in. I'm thinking that because I'm not that strong yet. And these are stable exercises the recovery window of 3/4 days will be enough to recover even when going rest/pause.
Ofcourse people like Mike Mentzer or Dorian Yates had more rest. But they were also wayy stronger.

5. Well the chain as a whole I'm less interested in. Like I don't care if I'm a bit less athletic. I will still just be a fit guy and do cardio and stuff. Like I won't all of a sudden be unable to do a pull up because I did isolation for a year.

6. I don't see those crazy muscle imbalances happening to a natural that trains all muscles. I might be wrong here. But like if my chest gets hit harder than my lats for example. Big whoop. I'm guessing chest will grow more than lats in that case. Which will just result in me in a few months changing the order to target lats first when CNS fatigue is low. And doing chest later. But then again no chest for a natural is too big of a chest. Like natty muscles will just become bigger and reach their peak and that peak is almost never too much imo.

But yeah you got some solid points. I do hope I get enough rest for my hard sets.

But my training besides the often failure aspect of it feels safer than heavy barbell action.

>>77214681
Like the injury part of it seems especially weird to me to harp so much into it.

Since almost all gym related injuries are from free weight barbell exercises like the deadlift and the squat.

You almost never hear of someone injuring themselves from stable machine isolation movements.

And then if you do hear it, it's from roided up mass monsters. Like ofcourse they're going to tear a bicep. Humans are not designed for so much muscle and power.

But just regular guys going hard on machines. It's often what coaches recommend after injuries not before. To do the safer stable exercises.

And those imbalances.

Where in my split would those get so big to become a problem?

Like I'm still doing leg press. I'm still doing lat pull down. And I'm still living a life where I just run around and climb on trees and shit. What part of me is destined to fail?

>>77214718
>it’s what coaches recommend after injuries
Yeah, SUPER light weight and high reps. What I mean with injuries from isolation is, for example, people blowing out their bicep by doing single arm preacher curl TO FAILURE. You aren’t meant to take isolation exercises to failure, it’s dangerous. But taking an exercise to failure is the only way to get bigger and stronger.

You’re putting the cart before the horse here bro. I’ve been lifting weights for a long time, and isolation exercises exist to assist to help break through plateaus or for rehab and sport specific training.

For whatever reason, pushing yourself hard on machines vs pushing yourself hard on free weights yields completely different results. Like, doing leg press and getting strong at that movement (4 or 5 plates with full ROM for sets of 8-10) and then switching to barbell squat, you would have trouble squatting one single plate.

Your routine is sub-optimal at best, and regressive at worst.

>>77214718
>>77214707
retarded non lifting DYEL thinking he needs to reinvent the wheel because he is le-special. just fucking lift mongoloid. you need to keep it simple at the start. You dont even know how to move yet. fucking absolute idiot.

>>77214778
post body

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>>77214791
Not him, in this guy
>>77214774
>>77214681

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>>77214791
now you dork

>>77214800
are you the g4p guy from fraud

>>77214774
I don't care if can't squat 3 plates after going crazy high on leg press. for fun I'll do weighted pistol squats later. But that wouldn't at all be for hypertrophy since the amount of stability needed.

But if preacher curls are not worth going to failure on what bicep exercise would be best to superset with tricep? Something I can go past eccentric failure with?

If you have any tips on this you will be the first one in the whole thread that gave me actual advice that's

1. Helpful
2. I asked for.

>>77215389
kill yourself

>>77214815
Lmfao no and I don't fraud