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File: 5.png (977 KB, 1080x608)
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>Who is /fat/ for?
For burger buyers working towards a longer life and a better physique through meaningful hard-work, strategy, and dedication. This is not QTDDTOT, stick to questions on fat loss. Post height and weight when asking for advice.
Join our Fatty Contest: https://www.fattycontest.com/

>What do I do first?
1. Read https://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/
2. Calculate your Body Fat Percentage: https://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy
3. Calculate your TDEE: https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/
Remember to use bodyfat% and use Katch-McArdle Formula with sedentary settings or your TDEE will be too high.
4. Plan your weight loss: https://www.losertown.org/eats/cal.php
5. Track your nutrition with MyFitnessPal (better for packaged food), Cronometer (better for generic food/macros), LoseIt (great for both), or Waistline (FOSS).

>Now what?
Count calories, all of them.
Eat about 500-1000 less calories than your TDEE.
Buy scales, be accurate.
Learn to cook. Try to stick to lean protein and green vegetables.
Eat a lot of protein. 0.72g per pound of goal lean body mass.
Doing cardio, even just walking, will improve your health. There is no such thing as a healthy fat heart, but you can offset the risks.
Lifting weights will keep and gain muscle mass and lose fat much quicker. Not lifting results in the body eating away muscle AND fat.
Drink more water.
Read the /fit/ sticky: https://liamrosen.com/fitness.html

>DON'T
Eat refined sugars, they're terrible for you regardless of calories.
Eat processed foods.
Drink your calories (alcohol, soda, Starbucks).
Freak out over a weight loss stall. Plateaus can last up to three weeks.
"Reward" yourself. Cheat days cheat only yourself.

>Other resources:
Loose skin, gynecomastia & stretch marks: https://weight-loss-side-effects.netlify.app/
Reddit Wiki: https://www.reddit.com/r/loseit/wiki/faq

Previous thread: >>77505487
>>
when if my giant belly gonna go
im only 14lbs away from my goal weight and normal BMI
>>
>>77509828
I can maybe lose 20 pounds before I'm decently skinny. I look like 40 pounds overweight though
I have to assume its going to sort its self out.
>>
>>77509828
Maybe because your goal was BMI 25 which is shockingly plump.
>>
>>77509828
most men have their fat concentrated in their gut with little fat in other places.
if you have definition on your arms and legs but a big gut, rip.
otherwise, start lifting hard. at ~24 BMI, one should be decently to amazingly ripped depending on how seriously he lifts and how much he supplements.
>>
I burned a lot of calories today and made a big Greek yogurt/banana ice cream thing with some melted chocolate. Decided that, while I’d be under calories I’d save it for tomorrow and eat some shrimp & a Skyr bat for dessert tonight and be near what my usual calorie goal would be. I’m also watching https://youtu.be/b-wV_8pPcuU?is=Vo9aIBpEaynvA-Cf and am glad I’m on this path.
>>
I haven't consumed sugar in around 5 days except for tangerines
I want to kill myself
>>
>>77510045
fuck you i want some food now but i'm foooooosting so i really shouldn't
>>
>>77510090
You’re doing it to yourself. You could just count calories and change your lifestyle for the better, you know.
>>
>>77510112
i've been counting calories for months without success after the initial piss easy 30 pounds drop.
yes, i've recalculated my TDEE, took 2 months off by eating at TDEE, and have been consistently eating at 500+ deficit.
it's high time i tried other methods.
>>
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You may not like it, but
WAGMI
>>
>got sick for the first time in over a year
>probably won’t be able to hit the gym and do my push day tomorrow
DAMN IT ALL
>>
20k steps a day at least
30k steps sometimes
40k steps if i'm feeling lucky

Youtube, spotify, all you need
>>
>>77510089
Eat fruits, they are ok as long as they have fiber. I love mangoes.
>>
i didnt realize carrots contained so much carbs, i feel much better after dropping them
>>
Normies genuinely think if you do OMAD or anything of that sort that you have a dangerous eating disorder and promoting it is even more dangerous btw
>>
>>77510214
I think it comes from the fact that humans have been famished throughout history, so now in the last 150 years or so, people's families taught them to eat, eat, eat like your life depends on it. I remember my family freaking out that I wanted to fast for longer than 2 days with just water, vitamins, and black coffee.

Once of the best decisions I made in my entire life, and just doing a 4 day fast completely changed my relationship with food.
>>
>>77510231
Having a physical job is a godsend for keeping a simple caloric deficit, but its a little sad I basically can't try doing extended fasts.
>>
>been on an extremely strict diet for 5 months now
>still need another good 3 or 4 more months
>already losing motivation and discipline for the last 25 pounds
I can just feel myself slipping and thinking almost every day that I've done enough already and deserve a break, shit's never gonna end is it.
>>
how can i burn 15 cal quickly guys?
i need to take my fish oil sup but i'm almost at my limit for the day
>>
>>77510315
>Haven't even been recording the calories of my multivitamin or my fish oil tablets
AAAAHHH NOOOO I CAN FEEL THE FAT MULTIPLYING ON MY BODY
>>
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I feel like giving in to the booze and weed
>>
>>77510315
Just take the sup anon it doesn't matter
>>
>>77510317
oh no.... :(
>>77510325
just did 2 mins of kettlebell swings and a min of burpees think that should do it
>>77510320
don't do it man
>>
>>77510308
take break for a month or two. some say you need a break anyway every couple of months.
>>
Reminder to any anons who recently shed off a bunch of weight or made it to their goal: the body remains in a semi-inflammatory state for around a year while you maintain a reduced weight. During this time, yes, it will be hard to resist cravings. But if you keep it up for one year, the inflammation will subside and you will find it much easier to maintain your weight!
Keep pushing through anons, there IS a light at the end of the tunnel.
>>
>>77510337
ty bro
>>
>>77509828
Train your abdomen and make sure you dont have lordosis.
Other than that you will have to get very lean if you want a flat stomach.
>>
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Was it even worth it?
>>
>>77510373
kek he deserves it for roiding
>>
>>77510373
I don't get these posts.
Obviously this is much better than having the extra weight on you.
You can get surgery for the skin eventually but you can't get surgery to be healthy and fit with 240 lbs extra.
>>
>>77510405
he usually spams them on the fat people hate threads
I think he started doing it here because he actually gets (You)s
>>
>is it worth it?
Always.
>>
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It’s been a wild ride but I’m happy to be out of the overweight class once again. Weight has been shedding since I moved to Japan, went from maybe 1k steps a day in America to 10k ish a day in Japan along with 9 flights of stairs as well. I eat rice twice a day with meat and veggies, and maybe sometimes a snack.
Depression aside it really can feel like suburb American life kept me a fat fuck.
My weight relapse was because I just stopped caring about myself in America but everyone’s thin here, especially women so I don’t think any of them wants to talk to a fat foreigner
>>
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Worried I had sciatica. Turns out it was mostly just hamstrings, once I stretched those bitches out the pain is 80% reduced.
>>
going from morbidly obese to normal weight, when should i see fupa going normal?
i was 140kg and im down to 90kg and my fupa looks pretty much the same it was, or i can't tell difference
my limbs have gone pretty much normal and muscle tone is clear but around mid section the fat remains so i guess that's last thing to leave
>>
>>77510467
Never goes away fully, time to get a consultation
>>
>>77510455
good, i'm glad to hear it
>>
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I try to weigh myself every morning after pissing and shitting but sometimes I dont shit until way after
Wish I could shit on command
>>
>>77510467
Wait 1 year >>77510337 and destress yourself. Elevated cortisol can keep visceral fat on you persistently. Don't listen to the other anon
>>
>>77510476
Eat more soluble fiber and practice schinctoral exercises. You'll always be able to poop and have will have the control to decide when you actually do so
>>
>>77510337
I had my bloods tested not long after a 40kg weight drop and my inflammation was non existent. Maybe because I wasn't eating carbs, I dunno
>>
>entire jar (700g) of pickles is only 170 calories
holy based, i thought this shit would be 500+ at least because of the sweet and salty water shit it's in
>>
>>77510507
>700g jar of pickles
Holy Sodium Poisoning Batman!
>>
>>77510511
ate the entire thing, no regrets. i fast most of the week so it'll flush out
>>
>>77510433
What are you doing in Japan? Are you a weeb?
>>
>>77510522
white man's paradise. browns wouldn't understand.
>>
>>77510522
日本で日本語を勉強しています、絵も書いています
>weeb
Mochiron
>>
>>77510531
Living among alien people is unnatural, degenerate and the opposite of paradise.
>>
>>77510540
I'm sure the only civilized and safe society left on earth seems alien to your kind.
>>
>>77510549
Racially alien, yes. The correct course of action is to undo the damage inflicted upon your homeland and make your own society civilised and safe again, not flee like a scared little bitch.
>>
doing keto, losing weight all over my body but my face is bloated from lack of sleep(because of keto/no carbs) and cortisol. what do?
>>
>>77510610
drink water
>>
>>77510610
Eat a normal diet and count calories
>>
>>77510610
Get a jaw trainer to build muscle in that are and help frame your face better. If you can practice wiggling your ears if your muscles aren't too atrophied then that will also help
>>
>>77510605
impossible at this point
>>
>>77510540
>You must be loyal to the race who keeps treating you as subhuman shite
Never understood this performative white suprematist incel chud shite
>>
Retard question, but if 120g of uncooked white rice is 450 calories then it'll be the same in calories when cooked it will just weight more with the added water, right?
Or do I need to weight the 120g once it's cooked and THAT cooked 120g is 450 calories?
>>
>>77510637
Yes, every value is always for uncooked weight.
>>
>>77510640
Cool thanks, I have these neat little 120g uncooked bags that pretty much fill an entire plate once they're cooked. Always thought they'd have a lot more calories than less than 500 for some reason.
>>
>>77510637
tracking raw food is better because cooking changes the water weight amount depending on how you prepare it. sometimes, by a lot.
>>
>>77510642
Thanks, yeah I was just confused cause sometimes I see people weighting rice or pasta cooked and then wonder why it's such a small amount on the plate.
>>
>>77510636
>the race who keeps treating you as subhuman shite
That's another race, anon.
>>
>>77510122
My suggestion is if the deficit you’re in doesn’t cause weight loss drop it another 100/200 cals, don’t be so rigid with tdee -500. Half the battle is counting the cals so if you’re doing that and it’s not working just drop it further.
>>
>>77510320
It’s never a little bit though is it mate, be realistic. Fix the other aspect of your life that makes you want that escapism. Weed and booze should only be done with the boys as a social lubricant nothing else, doing them to ‘relax’ is cope.
>>
>>77510717

>doing them to ‘relax’ is cope

Men can do many things in moderation. Doing things to be social is you using it to fix your low self esteem.

Stop giving advice when your self esteem is brown.
>>
Are kettlebells worth it or are they just a big meme?
>>
>>77510713
yeah that's why i put the + after 500. i'm already close to "fasting" territory so i might as well try it.
>>77510722
they're pretty good but they don't hit every muscle. a total newbie would massively benefit from them.
and they're great for cardio even for advanced lifters.
>>
>>77510688
Whether they are mindcontrolled by the nomad tribe or not, the white people treat me as subhuman because I'm not the 0.0001% of the top genetic males. I have no loyalty to people who outcast me
>>
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Reminder: Never eat any carbs!
>>
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>>77510373
Get the chop.
>>
>>77510765
As if yellow women were less superficial, kek.
>>
lost about 25kg and i still looked flabby but i was coping that im still fat and its not loose skin
but now that im actually sub 20% bf i STILL look flabby
after all that effort i look disgusting....
>>
>>77510801
You don't stop looking flabby until around 15%
lean is logarithmic in respect to fat gain. There is more difference between 10 and 15% bf than 20 and 30%
>>
>>77510805
i hope youre right
im planning to hit 15% before i assume anything
but still some people look good at 20% its annoying
>>
>>77510787
He gave himself loose skin with surgery? Crazy
>>
>>77510787
Damn, I look something between like fat and and loose skin. I don't have nearly as much as loose skin on my chest like he did, but my moobs look like there on the left just not sagging as much and the fat doesn't want to go away from them. And my belly looks slightly bigger than on the loose skin pic.
How over is it for me, will I need the chop?
>>
>>77510812
Honestly, if I were you I'd just go down to 10% before, that's what I plan to do anyway.
>>
>>77510817
Post body
>>
>>77510819
I'm too embarrassed, I have zero muscle at this point I was just in deficit when losing weight without working out.
>>
>>77510824
Post body
>>
how many cans of diet coke a day is too much
>>
>>77510829
500
>>
>>77510829
1
>>
>>77510817
the less sagging when you're fat, the less loose skin that will be left behind. just because you're bigger than him doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a problem
i think this guy got a bit of a raw deal with the loose skin relative to how fat he was though (assuming that's his highest weight on the left), seems like bad skin elasticity genetics
personally i'm on round 2 of weight loss and i didn't have loose skin the first time starting from a top bmi of 28. this time my top bmi was 33, and around my highest weight is when i developed that sort of bifurcated gunt that can hang over the waistband of your pants just like he has on the left, and that's the area where i have loose skin now.
>>
>>77510721
Ad hominem, opinion discarded. Here’s your (you) little fella.
>>
>>77510730
I see, what do you mean by fasting territory are you quite short?
>>
>>77510843
>i'm on round 2 of weight loss
Same, but I might just be coping with loose skin at this point. If you have some loose skin coming from 33 BMI then I will definitely have more once I get rid of all the fat cause at my highest at some point I was at 320lbs/5'9 and I'm at 185 now.
Kinda wish my fat parents didn't fuck up my childhood and getting me fat through it now.
>>
>>77510829
Just up to the point where the caffeine isnt a problem. 500mg is where most people start having problems in their day to day life.
>>
>>
I'm 6'4, 400lbs to 315lbs. I'm becoming skinnyfat. I'm disgusted with myself. My legs and shoulders are nice, but everything else is frankly just a smaller version of my 400lb self. My arms are filling out from noob gains, so slight plus.
>>
Genuinely believe there's some mass psychosis and the way people obsess over protein and companies are putting protein labels on literal dogshit slop just to sell the product to retards.
>>
>>77510964
>believe
It's happening right before our very eyes. It's because of GLP-1 drugs. They need extra protein to avoid muscle loss.
The next macro obsession is going to be fiber from the spike of colon cancer cases. People are shitting literal bricks.
>>
>>77510885
I get more than that in my crystal light...
>>
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>>77510964
Brah, you're like three years late. This happened when GLP1s went mainstream. Normies were no longer ruled by their slop cravings so they started trying to eat more protein so food companies, seeing their slop sales slide, start pumping whey protein into everything they could, so you got shit like powermac from kraft which made whey protein prices skyrocket.

Slop+Whey is the current meta for the slop sellers. Its how they're trying to stay relevent when more than half of American adults are now on GLP-1s and as such buying ~30% less slop than they used to.
>>
>>77511001
>more than half of American adults are now on GLP-1s
hey look it's the delusional psycho
>>
>losing weight now doesnt matter becaues of glps
i fucking hate it i am a true chad not some drugkid
>>
>>77511067
get buff
GLPs can't help with that
>>
>>77510824
I will if you do.
>>
>>77510824
ketoschizo will abuse your picture for years if you post it
>>
Back from shopping, boughted a lot of beef jerky and pork rinds. Will have a blast snacking on them during the weekend
>>
>>77510964
I blame Ted Naiman. Everyone was figuring out CICO was fake and Ted Naiman gave them CICO* with an asterisk to keep the processed food industry alive.

*Protein is different from other calories.
>>
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>>77510817
Do unlimited calorie carnivore and your loose skin will go away.
>>
>>77510843
IIRC skinman was like 18 or 20 but was raised fat his whole life. My shits fucked up and gay from genetics, rapid weight gain and loss like 4 times.
>>
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ok maybe strange qestion but is it possible that my body fat has a different density now that im on a diet?
>>
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Eurobros...
I haven't been here in a few years but i wanna hop on reta or tirz. What's a good legit source?
>>
>>77510197
Fruits are gay and useless, you can replace the benefits of ALL fruits with like two vegetables.
>>77510089
Why not consume some actual white sugar? If you drink tea 1 tsp of sugar in it, if you drink espresso 2-3 tsp. Of course, you'll have to limit yourself to one cup per day.
>>
the days are getting shorter... bulking season (next 7 months) is coming...
>>
>>77511141
No no no no no no no PLEASE NO. I JUST WANT TO BE HOT. NO MORE FAT. NO MORE FATTY FAT JOKES NO MORE XL CLOTHES NO MORE LOOKING LUMPY.
>>
>>77511107
you can't eat "unlimited calories" because the stomach is limited :)
>>
Is running really bad for your knees? I've been basically just walking or powerwalking for the last 7 months and besides muscle fatigue, I've not had any joint problems, however even with powerwalking it still takes a large chunk out of my day so I was thinking of transitioning to running, but I'm afraid it will fuck up my knees
>>
>>77510964
Kinda. We just happen to have a giga huge marketing industry that doesn't get talked about very much. They take contracts to constantly mention certain topics and steer conversations certain ways to keep people buying the slop by never letting the slop leave our mind. It programs anons to think and talk certain ways.
It's like that everywhere these days. The internet is just a vehicle to sell you something now, it's the advertising version of MKUltra.
>>
>>77511219
>does X cause Y?
>i do X but I dont feel Y
idk bro its a mystery
>>
>>77511219
I think it's mostly genetics and/or people who run with a very high weight for longer distances than they should.
If you are obese don't go for more than 3k
>>
>>77511219
what's your height/weight
>>
>>77511208
Supposedly your body stops dumping insulin so your body stops producing fat. So while you sleep your body uses body fat for energy, that's the theory as I understand it anyhow
>>
>>77511126
Depends on your country. If you're in germland, you can prolly get a prescription via online prescription services. It's not cheap but legit.
>>
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>>77509588
>>
>>77511123
Unlikely, what makes you think that? Your body may be preparing for a woosh though, I find my belly fat looks/feels strange when it's about to happen.
>>
>>77511219
I only maxxed out at 280 (and wasn't doing cardio at that weight) but from ~250 to 180 I've had no knee problems attributable to running. It may help that I've done significant HIIT cardio before and powerlifting but idk.
>>
>>77510949
>315lbs
>Skinnyfat
lmao
>>
>>77511208
You won't be able to fill your stomach on satiating food anyway.
>>
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>hit the plateau again
This shit is driving me crazy. I get periods of nice progress and then it pauses for a few weeks before resuming again. I still have 10kg to go and hate what I see in the mirror.
>>
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FattyContest
BostonBeachedWhale
285lbs

I am so close to not being a Class 3 lard ass anymore.

I look at the week 1 photo all the time to remind myself how bad it got and what I am working to undo. This is going to be a long battle but the fact that I am almost free of Class 3 obesity after a decade+ is nice.

Next comparison image will be at 52 weeks.
>>
>>77511437
The loose skin is gonna be wild
>>
>>77511441
Oh, for sure. My inner thighs and upper arms are very grim already.
>>
>>77510518
did you get severe diarrhea
>>77510964
theres a fad every few years. remember why onions is changed to onions?
>>
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SylveonXGlaceon
Day 6/10 of OMAD complete
She still hasn't eaten today. She's gone over 24 hours with no food. She's not even feeling like it's that hard honestly. Transitioning into a stricter fasting schedule won't be that hard for her.
>>77509379
Getting attention is fun!
Plus she's mentally ill (self diagnosis) and bored
>>77509590
That's a rude way of saying it but yeah basically. A huge slut for attention. Please penetrate her attentionhole with your attentioncock and give her an attentiongasm and maybe even get her attentionpregnant with your attentionsperm?
>>77509593
She thinks that a large part of the reason that these studies turn out this way is due to non compliance. Obviously people who don't comply with whatever diet won't see any real results, so you've gotta multiply by the reciprocal of the compliance rate to get the real rate, assuming compliance.
>>
You will fail like you always do
>>
>>77511437
Looks like you turned gay. Nice progress, though.
>>
>>77511459
Is it the wrist? I have no idea what's going on with that. I should probably see an ortho.
>>
>>77511437
You will be handsome at a normal bmi. The structure is there. I look like tales from the crypt
>>
>>77511473
Post body
>>
>>77511437
why no shirtless pics
>>
>>77510848
>what do you mean by fasting territory
some consider less than 600-700 to be fasting
>are you quite short?
yes
>>
>>77510949
keep going
>>
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>>77511541
>some consider less than 600-700 to be fasting
>>
>>77511555
>Modified alternate day fasting involves restricting calorie intake on fasting days while allowing normal eating on non-fasting days. For example, one might limit calories to a maximum of 800kcal per day or 25% of daily requirements.
https://www.spadreams.com/fasting/modified-fasting/
>>77511437
your glasses on the low weight look like women's glasses. use your old ones for the next pic.
>>
Starting a new diet I call the Panda Express diet. I think it has some promise. BRB.
>>
>>77511574
>your glasses on the low weight look like women's glasses.
I can see it. I tried switching to wider frames to be a bit more proportional to my face but I don't think it had the effect I wanted.
>>
>>77511107
i did keto and lost 40kg and have loose skin lmao. it entirely depends on how fat you were before losing the weight
mind you i dropped it FAST, even with recomping at the gym. was it due to high activity, keto, or both? who knows. but the skin isn't going away any time soon
>>
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>>77511588
not bad i suppose, as long as you aren't getting a side of rice.
>>
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>>77511612
She was extremely fat and she said it took longer to lose the loose skin than the fat. Also she is specifically carnivore. I am not sure if it matters but it might. And she doesn't restrict calories which signals to the body it is in a high quality food environment.

Anyway stick with it and you might lose your loose skin too.
>>
>>77511270
87kg at 178cm
>>
>>77511633
100% fine to run
>>
does autophagy triggered fasting help with loose skin?
>>
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>>77511623
Good news and bad news. Good news I feel full but not bloated and groggy like my usual order of chow mein and bejing beef would leave me.
Bad news I forgot to factor in the shitty employees who barely spoke english and couldn't understand that I wanted fresh veggies. The broccoli was hard as a rock, felt like I was going to break a tooth.
Hot mustard was nice though, I've never tried it before always drowned my chinese in sweet and sour sauce before.
Maybe I'll become the chinese food version of Jared minus the cp. Price was a little steep though, if I just learned how to cook I could probably make it for half the price.
>>
Brethren, it is my very great pleasure to inform you that the weight is steadily coming back down, I'll be cracking teens again in no time.
>>
>>77511681
maybe
>>
>>77510122
all of you just need to do rfl seriously
minimum lean protein to not lose muscle mass
veggies for micronutrients
fish oil
multivit
lift heavy and make sure you arent experiencing strengtg loss

NOTHING ELSE
THE GAME IS NOT CALORIE MINIMIZATION. THE GAME IS ONLY EAT WHAT YOUR BODY NEEDS AND NOTHING ELSE
>>
>>77511588
When i lived in LA, i noticed all the skinny people ordered the bowl option of 1 entree and 1 side. I ate panda at least once a week and now i am here
>>
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>>77511683
the base of chinese food is onion/garlic flavored oil which you make by frying onion in oil.
set a pan to medium heat, after the pan is hot, put 100cal of cooking oil in a pan, chop 1/4 a white onion, or spring onions/shallots and fry in the pan for 1 minute, stirring frequently.
add the chicken (pre cooked) and broccoli, continue frying until broccoli looks wet, should take a couple minutes, turn off the heat at this point.

have prepared a sauce made of one teaspoon of the following: bouillon paste, ketchup, ginger paste, soi sauce, sake, chili oil, and water.

pour the sauce over and stir, letting it sizzle in the residual heat of the pan.

thats a basic recipe for chinese sauce
>>
I got my 3pl8 squat today :D
>>
>>77511774
Bitch I do more than that every time I take a shit.
>>
Gemini says I'm 13% body fat now, but all the other AIs say 15-17%. How do I know if I've gone too far? I don't want to get below 10% because I think I'll start losing muscle. It's harder for a previous fat to tell I think because loose skin complicates things.
>>
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>>77510964
The only thing that matters is protein to calorie ratio. If something is marked as a protein product, and it is not at least 9 or 10 G protein per 100 calories, it is dog shit.
>>
>>77511790
>Gemini says
Fuck Gemini. Post body.
>>
Fatty Contest
hitodenashi
133.6lbs
>>
my body is a mess
>>
>>77511783
I guess holding out at the bottom of a squat to shit is one way to go to depth
>>
>>77511637
Is there a limit to how much I can run at that weight? Because I walk like 13 kms a day
>>
>>77511817
Running isn't good if you have any extra weight and even then it isn't in the long run. Every runner eventually gets bad knees and joints. Just take up hiking and biking.
>>
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>>77510964
The thing with everything being labeled with "high protein" is that for your product to be considered "high protein", it needs to contain at least 10% of the daily required protein, however the daily required protein in most countries is still a measly 50g, so something with 5g of protein can legally attain the "high protein" label
>>
>>77511824
Is walking alright? Not that anon but I tend to walk around my city for hours and usually do about 10-15km in a day (not every day but on some days).
>>
>>77511817
if you're a complete beginner to running it's good to ease into it very slowly. for example, the next day you walk, you could walk 12.5 km and run 0.5 km. if you never run it's quite possible you could have some next-day soreness even from a small amount of running like that just because it's going to use some kinds of muscle stabilization and movements that you're not well-practiced in. then when you feel recovered, you could do a day where you run 12km and walk 1km, and so on.
i'm not an accomplished runner at all and have never ran anything longer than a 5k so i can't really advise any schedule for how to turn much more of that distance into running; there's also the fact that it'll take both less distance and less time to burn the same amount of calories and get the same cardiovascular benefit so you won't really need to. but your weight really isn't a problem for running, you're only a little overweight. i started running at a similar bmi and never had any joint/tendon pain or injuries, and i have a friend who's the exact same height and weight as you who's been a dedicated runner for about 15 years and is also fine.
>>
>>77511843
no it's not alright, i think you are going to get in trouble
>>
>>77511843
Yeah walking is fine, the more the better. It's just the slamming impact of running that does you in. You're basically tripling your weight every half second.
>>
>>77511848
Thanks, I had to wonder. I'm going from desk jockey to exercising pretty regularly and walking has been fine but I feel pretty sore in the knees after doing any squat lifts and things like that, so I'm hoping they're okay to do in the long term too.
>>
>>77511851
Humans are built for walking, we basically have infinite walking stamina. That's how we ran down animals in ancient times. We couldn't run as fast as them but we just keep coming and eventually they can't run anymore.
>>
cumin, sons
it helps losing fat and gaining muscle
>>
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Started at 260lbs. Dropped to 240lbs pretty easily.

Currently ping-ponging between 240lbs and 232lbs multiple times a day. Can’t fucking break below 230. It’s been like a month of this shit.

I understand your weight fluctuates throughout the day, but 8 fucking pounds?

Also, I just feel like my body is going crazy. Random dry skin out of nowhere. Cycling between insomnia and randomly falling asleep in the middle of the day. Also, I piss like 10 times a day and often shit 3 times.

It’s like my body would rather destroy itself than be under 230lbs.

My advice to anyone that isn’t fat is to never get fat. Losing weight is 10 times harder than just not getting fat in the first place.
>>
>>77511437
Adjust your gig line.

Get high waist pants.
>>
>>77511888
Reminder >>77510337
Maybe try maintaining for a bit before trying to lose again
>>
>>77511790
do the fat caliper pinches and navy methods
>>
>>77511937
ok thx anon
>>
>>77510433
What did you use to track your progress?
>>
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>>77511937
Those methods really aren’t that accurate. You gotta do something more professional to even be within +/-5% accuracy.

Even a DEXA scan is only good to about 2%. That’s kind of wild to think about.
>>
>>77511888
hang in there. most i had to lose was 45 lb but it was somewhat similar. i lost 20lb in the first month without effort other than a major diet change, and then it was miserable the second month. i also had a bunch of weird symptoms after those first 20lb; eczema breakouts all over my hands, poor sleep, and had mild multi-day fevers three times in that second month. i also would have awful BO for days after those fevers would pass. and lastly, i didn't lose any weight during this second month. it all just kinda stopped and into the third month i felt better and would consistently lose .25-.5 lb a day.

gl bro
>>
>>77511754
Thanks for the info I'll give it a shot.
>>
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>>77511954
>i also would have awful BO for days after those fevers would pass.
Oh yeah, this too. My girlfriend used to always say that I always smelled good, to the point that it was weird cuz I just never smelled bad.

Now she tells me that I randomly smell just fucking terrible and she’s not used to it.
Which I’m not even mad at her cuz it gets so bad that I also smell myself lol.

And the protein farts.

Losing weight is a humiliation ritual. It’s like your body is in self-destruct mode.
>>
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Do I look muscular/fit or am I just skinny?

Please don't laugh
>>
>>77512000
u look average bordering on fit
>>
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>>77512000
>>
>>77511883
Fr? Should I start adding a bit to my burger patties?
>>
>>77512031
>3g daily required
Haha, no.
>>
>>77512000
OLD average slightly fit, slightly toned.
Modern day thats fit
>>
>>77511946
Fatty contest
>>
Did my steps
Summer seems to come to an end in my part of the world. Thank god. Time to get comfy
I'm afraid of the bulking season tho...
>>
Fatty Contest
PortuFat
79.6kg
>>
Im like 220 lb rn and strength train like 3 times a week for hour sessions. I think keto is a meme but atm I've eat like 180 grams of protein and 80-100 grams of cans while my fat jmis around 55g. Should I be eating more carbs in general?
>>
>>77512206
Keto is only good for if you want to quickly get rid of all water weight, that's really it.
>>
>>77512217
You're telling me I had 50kg of water? Damn.
>>
>>77512225
It's obviously going to work same as any fucking other method if you're in deficit you retarded cherry-picking gorilla nigger.
>>
>>77512255
Nah, works better.
>>
Fatty Contest
FuckCarbs
105.4kg
>>
I tried some lupini bean pasta and while the macros are super good it 100% is not pasta-like in the slightest. After boiling it becomes mushy and basically not any different to just eating whole beans. Im probably not gonna get it again its expensive af
>>
Fatty contest
Boobs
112.5kg
>>
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Fatty Contest
Takatin
79.4kg
>>
im getting a cute little twinky tummy now
UwU
feels funny when i walk too, like its bouncing up and down :D
>>
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Fatty Contest
Healthy2026
243.5
>>
>>77512376
I kinda want to try to get fucked in the ass after my weight loss before I get way too old but I also want to lose my normal virginity first so it's probably never happening.
>>
>>77512390
yeah same, im gonna get all sexy and twinky with a little tummy and them im gonna get pounded by muscular tops before i turn 30
>>
>>77509825
Been stable bouncing between 78 and 83 kg for over 7 weeks now. Down from 114 kg. I think I'm done. Now I just focus on losing bellyfat. I keep exercising.
It's been a challenging ride so far, anons, but it was well worth it in the end. We're all gonna make it.
>>
>>77512376
pic
>>
why is everyone gay in this thread
or is it just everyone on this board?
>>
>>77512400
when im fit i will yes. not today.
>>77512403
you probably thing big muscular bodybuilders are straight dont ya
>>
>>77512403
>why is everyone gay on the website for people who want to be little girls
>>
79.3 kg this morning.
I ate a lot yesterday.
>>
Fatty contest
Jiggleking
170.4
>>
>202 yesterday
>at 1500kcal yesterday. no salt. no alcohol.
>207 today
wtf, yeah i know, water etc but 5 lbs?
>inb4 ulied
no
>>
went from 95 to 94kg in 1 week, according to my tracking over the past months if trends follow id be reaching my goal of 15% bf in 6 months. idk if this is good progress or not, it feels slow cause im lifting 3 times a week so the scale weigh ins are often wildly varied.
>>
>>77512341
>151 to 175
w-what happened?
>>
>>77512403
sampling bias
>>
>>77512403
It's the excess estrogen caused by obesity.
>>
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>>77512287
I am just a 'regular' obese now, yay
>>
>>77512432
>no salt
are you retarded? you need salt for your body to be hydrated idiot.
>>
Had a lengthy talk with a 80 year old ex-construction worker after my cardio since he had to rest on my bench due to his fucked up knees, the guy had such a powerful grip when I shook his hand, genuinely how are these construction workers so fucking strong?
>>
>>77512500
he isnt, youre just THAT weak. go lift idiot.
>>
>>77512503
My grip strength is 62kg
>>
>>77512432
Did you eat carbs right before bed? Carbs cause temporary water retention because at the cellular level water is used to cleave the bonds that make up sugar molecules. Not saying this in a keto way i eat bread every day
>>
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>head empty
>crying all the time
>everyone around me tryna kill themselves
>dealing with some harassment at work
>kgs keep falling off every week tho

maybe i should just go back to smoking meth
>>
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Fatty Contest
Gerbil
75.2kg
170cm
>>
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Fatty Contest
Takatin
69.4kg

>>77512450
input error, thanks for pointing it out
I had to see the graph to understand my error, it's still hard to believe that my weight start with a 6 and not a 7
>>
>>77512500
>concentric overload
>metabolic overload
all day most days. if you want to be as strong as him, you'll have to do what he does.
>>
>>77511897
You think so? Am I making myself look fatter by not doing so?
>>
>>77511437
Dont shave your hair and beard like that, and dont force a smile, you look like a basedboy, the menacing ungroomed Tony Soprano look fits you much better than the Stephen Colbert one you are trying to go for. Good job for your weight loss
>>
>>77512615
Post your face and body, you won't.
>>
>>77512615
don't listen to this retard
>>
is it fine to snack on beef jerky and pork rinds everyday?
>>
>>77512636
yes
>>
Down to 98kg from 112kg since february but I've kind of stalled out and am getting tired of this shit. I need to get to 85kg so I'm barely halfway there. I'm thinking of doing PSMF but I'm being a pussy cause me no wanna eat nothing but meat for 3 months
>>
What is happening? I’m eating a lot, yet I’m losing weight; plus, I feel very hot and my eyes are bulging.

Thanks god
>>
>>77512643
>plus, I feel very hot and my eyes are bulging.
time to test your thyroid. ASAP.
>>
>>77512644
What are the chances that God heard my prayers to lose weight and gave me the "biological Ozempic" (hyperthyroidism)?

God is great
>>
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>>77512652
I'd consider it more of a curse
>>
Any experiences with weight on scale not dropping but clothes still slowly feeling looser?
I've been stuck around 240 on the scale but still noticed that my gym shorts felt very loose this morning. It's honestly driving me mental. Been rigid with my calories still as well. Weighing all food.
>>
>Monday to Friday do great, big deficit
>Weekend arrives
>Binge 5000kcals everytime
I FUCKING HATE MYSELF
>>
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Fatty Contest
Awooga
165.8lbs

We're so back boys
>>
>>77512682
I used to do this. My only solution now is I will only eat the same thing everyday, and keep the bare minimum off food in the home.
>>
>>77512680
recomp. expected for newbie lifters.
>>
>>77512682
test and supplement Vitamin D as needed
>>
Fatty Contest
FuckSingleMoms
257.6
>>
I want to eat the sloppa max supreme
>>
i had clothes that did not fit me when i was still getting fat, at 116kg

after about 2 months of gym and like 3 of dieting, i'm back at 116kg and the very same clothes now fit me like a glove

is it really the muscles that do that? i'm noticing i'm a lot leaner than i was when at 116kg gymless years ago
>>
>>77512809
yes >>77512704
>>
>>77512810
funny this question got asked this thread, cool!
>>
>>77510373
This happened to me, but mine is not that bad because I only lost like 80lbs. Standing up you can't really tell there's much loose skin. Still, I hate imagining fucking a woman missionary and she looks at my disgusting loose skin, it's nightmare fuel. I haven't had sex since losing weight.
>>
>>77510787
One anon here was supposed to get it. did he died?
>>
>>77512682
>Binge 5000kcals everytime
How do you people eat this much
>>
>>77512839
In America and the UK you get 2000 kcals per coffee
>>
>>77512704
I'm not really lifting right now. Like I go to the gym for light stuff as my shoulder can barely function. Generally just do really light weights then incline walk for 30min.
>>
>>77512843
>Starbucks
Not coffee, just sugarslop
>>
How many of you built home gyms in an apartment?
>>
Fuck me, just ate 1,500 calories in the last 2 hours after my fast and I can't fucking breath I'm so stuffed.
Is this how normal people feel when they eat normally
>>
>>77512848
>built home gym
you only need adjustable dumbbells, an adjustable bench, a pull up bar, and maybe some resistance bands.
if you need more, you're in beast territory.
>>
>>77510266
wish i had a more mindless physical labour job. im a nurse, but i work night shift so the physical labour is sporadic and i have to actually use my brain which is stressful. also shit sleep.
>>
>>77512839
>Eat one KFC meal
>2500kcals
>>
>>77510610
keto makes it harder for you to sleep? keto always made be sleep super good after the day. i felt completely zapped after gym and a meal and went to sleep like a rock at like 10 pm. i kinda wanna do it again.
>>
Fatty Contest
JacKingOf
191lbs
6'0"
>>
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>>77511335
>>
Got my first compliment 5 months in, 85lbs down. The cashier at my local grocery shop asked if I lost some weight and I said yeah a little bit, then she said it shows so we made small talk. Walked home with the biggest smile on my face, people probably thought I was retarded or something.
>>
>>77512809
100%. conversely i've been in the situation of thinking "well at least i'm not getting any fatter since the scale hasn't gone up in a long time" while also being completely sedentary resulting in some gradual recomping in the wrong direction. got a wakeup call about that one year when the seasons changed and last year's winter clothes no longer fit at all despite being the same weight
>>
>>77512818
the real nightmare fuel is that most women are disgusting fat blobs, who deserve to have your loose skin pressed up against them for their sins.
DO IT
>>
>>77511437
What a difference, congrats.
>>
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Fat fucks of fat.
Is abusing a lot of cocaine and/or other stimulants the way?
I'm fat and wanna feel good like superman while losing weight.
>>
>>77513112
Please go away you fucking idiot.
>>
>>77513112
Meth is the way to go, it also makes losing weight a lot easier
>>
>>77513118
Quiet liberal.

>>77513120
Isn't that like very addictive and harmful to your health. Like smoking it or?
>>
>>77513112
yes but it's expensive
>>
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>>77513128
Thank you, that's all I needed to hear. Until next time, /fat/
I'll report my results sometime in the future.
>>
Restaurant lunch tomorrow. I'll make it my OMAD but I hope I don't go even over my daily calorie allotment.
>>
>>77513112
dont do drugs kids
>>
I regained all the weight I lost since june but I'm back on the grind and feeling motivated. No point in worrying about past failures any longer.
>>
>>77512823
Unknown status
>>
>>77512615
I don't want to have my hair that long again but I definitely agree that I should grow it out more.
The beard I had recently trimmed to get a better idea of how much had changed in my face, but you're right, it does look off.

>>77513086
Thanks, anon. My hope with sharing updates every now and then is to motivate others to continue with their own progress.
>>
>>77513112
Im degen by nature but i "microdose " caffeine until 3pm for this reason. Half caf coffee all day. It works but i have to rinse my teeth with mouthwash between cups or they get dingy. You dont need the hard stuff
>>
SylveonXGlaceon
Day 7/10 of OMAD complete
I can't cook and eat large pots of food anymore, they take too long to eat within OMAD.
Whatever. I can find healthy things that can be quickly consumed.
And eating this pot of food over 3 days isn't the worst. Usually a pot like this would be a I've day ordeal for me so something has changed.
>>77511457
Thanks for the kind words friend!
>>77512403
This is a gay website stra*ghtoid
>>
Exactly how fat would you say a fat fuck is? My coworker gets upset when I call myself it
>>
>>77513250
A fat FUCK? Hmm. Noticeable tire is fat fuck, sone pudge is a fatty. Weirdly doughy is chubby.
>>
>>77512933
I remember being shocked a cashier at a gas station I go to often for food instantly noticed. I must’ve lost a meager 5 lbs and she noticed
>>
How do you guys feel about pre-workout? Feel it makes a difference in your strength/resistance training?
>>
>>77513057
Absolutely based post
>>
>>77513341
As in taking protein or something prior? It's hard to say if it really does work, but I will at least say that I stopped having DOMS after intense sessions after I started having some before workouts and also after workouts.

I did find I could lift more and go longer after having some avocado though, not sure why that is.
>>
>>77513250
call anyone that isn't fit a fat fuck unless they're rail thin
>>
>>77513351
Not protein powder I mean those powders you mix with water and chug 30 mins before a workout
>>
>>77513341
Pre workout is basically just caffeine. It may have some minerals or whatever, but the caffeine is whats doing 95% of the heavy lifting (heh). You can basically get all the caffine you need from a cup of coffee. That being said, I personally take pre workout because I hate the taste of coffee and my tub of pre-workout costs like 25 bucks which is cheaper for me than buying good quality coffee that doesn't taste like mudwater. I also dont want to deal with the autism of spending a whole hour brewing coffee and cleaning a 500 dollar machine every morning.
>>
One real struggle after losing weight is gaining back confidence in your appearance when talking to someone. I’m sure some lifelong fats here can relate to how it feels almost offensive to talk to someone who’s also not fat or just downright ugly
>>
>>77513461
Post body
>>
How would you rate your appearance out of 10 if you lost all your weight.
>>
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>>77513463
>>
>>77513479
2/10
>>
>>77512000
i can see cords in your neck and back of hands and a hint of pecs through the shirt. your belly does no protrude below. you look fine.
how much have you lost?
>>
my mom is mad because ive been losing weight even though shes the one who told me i need to lose weight
>>
>>77513250
280+
>>
>>77513518
Sus. Watch out for her.
>>
>>77513530
yeah she’s been a total fucking psycho my entire life
>>
>>77513367
I think most of those just tend to be protein and a shitload of caffeine thrown in. There was a trend for a while of people just eating spoonfuls before workouts instead of drinking it and they ended up having heart attacks because of all the caffeine.
>>
>>77513481
What weight were you
>>
>>77513583
285lbs, pic must’ve been around 190. I’m back up to 210 cutting again
>>
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I dropped below 80kg today according to the scales. It's literally at 79.9kg, but I started at 90kg about 4 months ago. My face has lost a little weight but I still have a gross fatty layer over my stomach and chest along with a chin, so I'm going to keep pushing until I'm at about 72kg which is when I looked my best in old photos from 6 years ago.

I'm hope I can keep this going. I'm at least used to eating a proper diet now and I'm not eating snacks or buying shitty food at all anymore, I haven't even eaten any potato chips since the very first day I started and the same goes for icecream.
>>
Is it normal to be super fucking itchy while im losing weight? Ive lost like 15 pounds and nearly every day I get a bad itch especially on my stomach and ass.
>>
i dreamed that my biceps finally grew to a very decent size and i was admiring it
waking up went very hard
>>
Is there a reason people shave their armpits? I've noticed just about everyone at my gym has shaved pits and I've started doing it too, but I don't know why.
>>
>>77513250
30+ BMI
>>
>>77513645
Body odor
>>
>>77513505
I was 69kg now I'm 62kg.
I'm 1,67cm

Manlets rules
>>
Had a pop tart for the first time in ages, not as good as I remember, how the fuck is it normal in america that you just have a box of these things lying around in the pantry that kids eat between fucking meals
>>
>>77513670
it's interesting how like 80% of the floor space of the average american supermarket is taken up by "food" that's a nutritional black hole and basically accelerates you towards death
>>
>>77511612
You're correct. It's due to age, how long you carried the weight and genetics.
Age and length of carrying excess weight are the biggest factors.
>>
>>77511437
handsome! looking amazing anon
nice to see u smiling again
>>
I’m so close to reach my GW
>>
i cant do this omad shit i need some food in my tummy before going to bed or i feel i might crash out at somebody.
time to try the other meme diets ig. time to blow my poorfsg income on tuna and eggs
>>
>>77513732
Don’t do it bro
>>
it's fucking crazy how if you're busy but not physically active you can just tank consuming half as many calories in a day and your body just doesn't notice
>>
>>77513732
have you tried moving your one meal to dinner?
and get your Vitamin D tested
>>
>>77513732
do keto, it kills my appetite
>>
>>77513732
i second your one meal being dinner
i'm too tired/busy sleepy during the day anyways and having my meal and relaxing at night is nice
>>
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>tfw weigh less than a wahman
Also did my steps, you should, too.
>>
>>77513732
do 72 hour rolling fasts with keto meals inbetween
pretty much the old cheat code for weight loss before glp1
you can do shorter or longer fasts, but 72 hours really feels like the sweet point between being effective and side effects of fasting. just get some electrolytes and you're good
>>
Fatty Contest
HedonisticFucker
82.3kg

Yeah weight loss is happening, but a lot slower than I would like it to. Despite close to 0 carbs, sports, walking, all of that bullshit.
>>
>>77513781
I rely on my college meal to not starve to death
>>77513940
id try this but im afraid of losing my beginner gains. yes im trying to """body recomp"""
>>77513795
i like the smooth shits ive been having ty
>>
80.2 kg this morning.
>>
yesterday i made 23k steps, this morning my weight has gone up but my waist has gone much down. i have noticeabely smaller belly and my face is thinner
what is going on?
>>
>10th kg lost today

wagmi, keep at it, only have 27kg left!
>>
somethings happening to me, im really horny all of a sudden, fapped 3 times so far today and i still want more. i wonder if its losing fat fixing my hormones balance or the beef jerky and pork rinds.
>>
made it out of class 3 for the first time in 8 years
>>
>>77513518
They can't help themselves. Mothers have that part in their lizard brain that goes haywire when their offspring start getting thinner
>>
>intermediate fasting
>the day after feed
>scale still goes down
feels good
>>
>april 2025: 45 bmi
>november 2025: 40bmi
>september 2026: 35 bmi
>hope to be at 30bmi by january/february
>and then 25bmi by june/july
>>
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Why doesn't he lend a scale to fatties in his show? A general pattern seems to be. Or ask them to be weighed in a local facility weekly
>Dr Now: hey fatty, lose X amount of weight in Y months
>Fatty: Sure Doc
>Y months later scale goes up
Some of these fatties are delusional enough that they are following the diet and losing weight, only to be surprised later
>>
>>77514112
why doesnt he immediately put them all on GLP1s? they're all diabetic so they would be eligible for coverage
>>
>>77514059
>what is going on?
It is all water and you are delusional that one day can make a real difference.
>>
>>77514127
yeah i ate a lot of carbs yesterday. not 6k kcal worth of carbs so that i would gain weight but still. gemini (reddit) says im in recomp which is great. i guess im really gaining a bit of muscle and losing a bit of fat since i was completely inactive for years and now im walking a lot. i know you guys would say i cant gain muscle by walking but i think im gaining since like i said i was completely sedentary for years and now im actually making an effort to be active. walking isn't much but change from walking half an hour to 2-3 hours a day is a huge change. also like >>77514102 said my libido is waking up, i was basically in sexual hibernation all this time up until this point
>>
>>77514133
>walk a bit more than usual
>eat lots of carbs as a reward
NGMI
>>
>>77514112
>>77514116
the show isn't about helping people
it's about drama and laughing at fat people
>>
>>77514116
GLP1s weren't a thing during the heyday of the show.
>>
>>77514059
Muscle retains water after use sometines as part of the recovery process idk if it is enough to matter
>>
>>77514193
he just came out with 2 seasons (one of the tlc show and then another one he did) in the last year or so
>>
would you say tirzepatide is worth it for someone 8kgs into overweight bmi
>>
>>77514224
No.
>>
>>77514224
I would try sema it is easier to do a slow taper off sema and not gain weight back. Tapering off tirz is hell
>>
>>77514111
>september 2026: 35 bmi
>hope to be at 30bmi by january/february
>and then 25bmi by june/july
I started a bit over 40bmi as well and now we are at the same spot. God speed anon, wagmi
>>
There is a good chance I will be fasting tomorrow. I hate to do it but it might be necessary. I know nothing about fasting so give me a qrd about what I should do. I'm gonna have my run in the morning so that at least I won't be overly fasted when I do it. Anything else? Apparently I'm supposed to drink salt or something?
>>
>>77514275
Yeah, 5 tablespoons of salt a day during fasting
>>
>>77514275
Fasting doesn't work.
>>
>wow forever announced
oh fuck, i gotta lock in and not slack on my lifts and cardio when this shit goes live. i cant let this game derail all my progress so far.
>>
>>77513603
what was your calories per day? what workouts did you do? also how tall are you? im at similar weight as you 4 months ago just wanna compare with my workout/deficit.
>>
>>77514344
could you elaborate?
>>
>>77514410
It doesn't work
>>
>>77514410
Starvation mode.
>>
>>77514275
necessary why? you don't have food? if you do have food just stick to a normal deficit, fasting is rather bad for you. it'll seriously affect your energy to exercise and it causes you to lose extra lean mass compared to if you ate more.
>>
>>77514439
I need to do fasts once in a while to trigger autophagy and try to minimize loose skin and aging in general. Fasting is apparently proven to be a youth elixir, I intend to fast once a month.
I intend to only keep it up for one single day.
>>
fasttards got another one
>>
>everyone trying to fearmonger fasting is bad
just say you like eating and have no willpower to not eat, you all are more annoying than Muslims during Ramadhan
t. chronic faster
>>
>>77514458
i eat some of the food in my house, in a volume appropriate for one day's energy expenditure, and then i exercise my willpower not to eat the rest of it
>>
>chronic faster
>still in /fat/ thread
lol
>>
im fucking sick of fucking retards ordering burgers with meat instead of the bun

>durr this is less calories
NO THE FUCK ITS NOT, THESE CUNTS DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO COUNT CALORIES AND NEVER ATTEMPTED TO
>>
>>77514808
>>77514808



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