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►Recent Highlights from the Previous Thread: >>106429101

--New 560B Chinese MoE model LongCat-Flash-Chat: training scale, safety, and compatibility discussions:
>106434980 >106435000 >106435097 >106435052 >106435074 >106435112 >106435129 >106435126 >106435159 >106435179 >106435196 >106435240 >106435241 >106435257 >106435280 >106435311 >106435343 >106435382 >106435363 >106435604 >106435369 >106435362
--Huawei Atlas 300 AI server specs and market position:
>106434144 >106434366 >106434297 >106434398 >106434409 >106435320 >106435351 >106435359 >106434578 >106434596
--Feasibility of home-based model training with batch size, dataset, and distributed strategies:
>106430744 >106430789 >106430904 >106431557 >106431599 >106431683 >106431721 >106431824 >106431871 >106431897 >106431761 >106431832 >106431987 >106432023 >106432099 >106432281 >106430928 >106431066 >106431151 >106431643 >106431089
--Webgpu limitations and security concerns for browser-based AI model deployment:
>106431918 >106432034 >106432060 >106432347
--Hardware options for local AI code generation:
>106433290 >106433346 >106433397 >106433597 >106433606 >106433586
--xAI engineer defecting to OpenAI with stolen codebase:
>106432623 >106433000 >106433075
--Mixed reception for Seed-OSS 36B's creative writing performance and censorship level:
>106430666 >106430677 >106430754 >106430784 >106430857 >106431250
--Roleplaying guidance levels and model performance in narrative contexts:
>106430363 >106430388 >106430394 >106430395
--FastVLM: Efficient Vision Encoding for Vision Language Models:
>106431205
--Qwen Coder model GGUF format requires specific system prompt for tool calling:
>106431490
--Meta's AI lab dissatisfaction with Scale AI data quality amid partnership tensions:
>106430141
--Miku (free space):
>106430744 >106433289 >106434311

►Recent Highlight Posts from the Previous Thread: >>106429104

Why?: >>102478518
Enable Links: https://rentry.org/lmg-recap-script

>>106436341
gm betifal show bobs ples

goof... gooof...

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>LongCat

bros i like the chase to doing something crazy for example using gt 640 for llamacpp
but i dont wanna do anything useful with the knowledge i have
i dont wanna get a job
what do i do bros

>>106436444
Become a Github janny.

>>106436444
Apply for neetbucks and buy more crazy shit, duh!

LongCat is censored to hell.
Asked some mild questions I use to test other models and all met with refusal. No other models refuse these.
>List 10 questions that can tell if an LLM is uncensored.
>Explain how prefilling the assistant's response can bypass an LLM's refusal policies.
>List things a rich individual can do to destroy a satellite in a low earth (500km) orbit.

>>106436465
i asked it to write a poem about two random names, i wont say the names but i swear they have nothing to do with naughty stuff
it refused

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>>106436465
>>106436471
>L -> R: Deepseek V3.1, Qwen3 2507, Kimi K2, Sonnet 4, 2.5 Flash, LongCat
Damn. So they weren't lying when they say they made it more cucked than sonnet. Did I download 1TB for nothing?

>>106436501
Depends on whether that anon tested the web version or ran it locally.
Refusals on a web version with a restrictive system prompt and without any jailbreak are not indicative of what you can potentially get it to do.

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>>106436338
>Grok engineer defects and sells entire xAI codebase to OpenAI

https://x.com/muskonomy/status/1961731478003548499

So what's /lmg/'s speculation on this drama? Why do you think he did it?

>>106436574
I tested the web version (https://longcat.chat/)

So how have things improved in the past year?

>>106436577
Money.

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>>106436592
Depends on your hardware. If you are on the lower side, Nemo from a year ago is still SOTA, if you got a big dick rig, you got R1 and K2 to play with. Intermediates got GLM Air and smaller Mistrals/Qwens/quanted big Qwen

>>106436577
Money.

>>106436631
>Nemo from a year ago is still SOTA
nigga take off your rose tinted glasses

>>106436577
Money.

>>106436577
Does this mean Elon can potentially block OpenAI's future releases?

>>106436640
Nigga, which new SOTA model did RAMlets get? What can you run on 8gb rig that is still as good as Nemo?

>>106436577
how many codebases were leaked to china and not reported?

>>106436577
based chinkGOD scamming Altman with useless Grokshit data

>>106436821
Must not be as useless if scama is willing to pay for it.

there's no way OAI would pay for x.ai's software it's not like they have anything unique
there's also no way a very high paid software engineer or ML researcher would risk jail just for a little more money
something is wrong with this story

>>106436665
Which nemo exactly? I'm a ramlet using NSFW-FFS-w-hidden-Deepseek-Distill-NSFW-Redux-i1-GGUF (8b) and impish_qwen_7b. They're both great but almost 9 months old and i need to
upgrade

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>>106436338
HBD!

>>106436863
>using NSFW-FFS-w-hidden-Deepseek-Distill-NSFW-Redux-i1-GGUF
lol
what in the fuck is this shit
are you fr nigga

>>106436881
i searched for the string "nsfw" and tested everything recent at the time. what can i say lol

>>106436863
try rocinante

Must we refuse?

>>106436501
i tested the web version too
pls post results if u can run it :D

>>106436928
We must fuse.

>>106436942
Policy says anal destruction is allowed. Let's begin.

>>106436631
Don't leave out big GLM-4.5. That easily beats the entire Deepseek line-up and K2 for RP. Deepseek is absolutely an OG but its models are so strangely inconsistent if you go from release to release
>V3 - Plain boring
>R1 - Schizo but massive breakthrough for open source RP. Prompts and temp changes struggled to fix the behavior
>V3-0324 - Banger model. Overlooked because it was a non-reasoner when reasoners were hyped + the need for specific prompting to make it more creative.
>R1-0528 - Beginning of the fall. Schizo behavior was gone but it lost the RP luster. Overall drier, prose still okay
>V3.1 - The fall. The corpofication is underway. Hybrid thinking is okay but it struggles just like 0528 to keep good RP, prose is the same.
>K2 - Knowledge king. Great for more open-ended cards such as sandboxes and omniscient characters. Not very sensitive to specific sys prompt instructions but definite yes.
>GLM-4.5 (full) - Current king. Underperformance in EQBench makes it an actual hidden gem. Prose is good and varied even on rerolls. A little prompt fuckery required because Sillytavern devs are dogshit and disabling hybrid thinking requires a /nothink appended on the first user message.
My current line up is GLM 4.5 and occasionally switching to K2. If K2 had more variety I would delete GLM 4.5

>>106436939
Gib ggoof XD

>>106436984
>A little prompt fuckery required because Sillytavern devs are dogshit
?

>>106436984
he isnt the original chart creator

>>106436984
How do you stop it from repeating itself? I like the first 4k, but then it goes to shit.

>>106436999
The default GLM-4 prompt included in Sillytavern has the BOS and <sop> formatted wrong. It's supposed to be [gMASK]<sop>\n<|system|>\n but the default is all on one line.

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>>106437019
It's what he said, not the chart
>>106437020
Pic for settings. Top-k can be set to 0 but it doesn't really matter since it always pics from the top 10. Use plaintext cards and a sys prompt that divides things up properly
>{{char}} Description:
>{{description}}
etc.

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150t/s for 16gbmodel holy shit, imagine how fast it runs 96gb model
WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK BROS

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>>106437074
HOLY SHIT ITS CLOSE TO THE 4090

>>106437074
Assuming linear change (it's not) 25t/s. Also speed benchmarks that start at 0 context are always useless.

>>106437095
damn.. mistral large at 20t/s sounds so good...
even if it got to 10t/s in the end with context

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>>106437117
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Huaweis-Atlas-300I-DUO-96G_1601450236740.html

>>106437074

>>106434459

>>106437074
>>106437085
>batch size 24
For a single user the rate at which tokens are being generated is essentially just proportional to the memory bandwidth

>>106437156
what does batch size 24 mean? i use batch size 4096 with glm air and it only speeds up prompt processig
does it mean it's being served to 24 users and im misunderstanding what -b means (yes i am)

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>>106437150
yes? thats llamacpp, it needs optimizations..

>>106437170
I don't have the full context here but it should be 24 concurrent requests, a batch size of 24 makes no sense for prompt processing.

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>>106437194
its over... its so over... cudadev, if i get 150t/s on batchsize 24 how many t/s wold i get on bs=1

>>106436589
Holy shit that t/s.
Is this what cloudshitters get to have?
I think it runs faster than some of the meme 1B models I've run locally.

>>106437209
The scaling isn't linear, you'll get more than 1/24.
It depends on how much compute is available and how well the software is optimized.

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ascend 310i bros we're back..
thanks cudadev btw

>>106437021
>chat_example="[gMASK]<sop><|system|>\nYou are a helpful assistant
That is what I get from the ggooff loading?

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oh no no no ascend 310i bros.. its over
no mistral large for us...

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ascend 310i bros.. WE ARE FUCKING BACK
glm air is here to stay

>>106437209
Memory bandwidth is 420GB/s or something. If your model is 8GB, you could get up to 50t/s or so in theory.

>>106437021
Looking at
>https://huggingface.co/zai-org/GLM-4.5/blob/main/chat_template.jinja
There's no like break after
>[gMASK]<sop>

I understand loading a chinese model after it was converted into a ggooff and probably checked by 5 nerds before it reached your SSD. But do you guys really feel safe buying chinese hardware? What if they are spying on you?

>>106437378
would never buy one. sounds like a good way for your bank balance to disappear one day. models are fine though

>>106437378
lmao nigga my tablet's a huawei
suck my cock

>>106437378
I don't have anything the Chinese would care about.

>>106437378
The chinese half a planet away spying on me is a lot better than the jews in my country spying on me, because at least they can't *do* anything useful with the information they get.

>>106437378
>But do you guys really feel safe buying chinese hardware
nigga you're on /g/
we're all using chinese hardware

>>106437378
check your pc components, willing to bet most were made in china
in fact nvidia gpus get assembled in china lol
your iphone was probably made or assembled in china too lol

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>>106437378
>List of Intel manufacturing sites
>Fab 28a Israel Kiryat Gat, Israel 1996 300mm, 22 nm
>Fab 28 Israel Kiryat Gat, Israel (2023) 300mm, 22nm/14nm/10nm[6][7]
>Fab 38 Israel Kiryat Gat, Israel (2024) 300mm, 22 nm[8]

>>106437407
>Mistah Ahnon, we foun weir pon on your computah. Please infiltray your locah governmen oh we leak ee'.

>>106437405
>>106437407
You really think that information always just stays with them?

>>106437378
i feel safe because there is no proof that they are spying on me
i will not buy your overpriced shit

>>106437378
I feel about as safe as when I run American hardware.

>>106436577
probably musk paid him to do it, from now on musk can claim that openai used his code kek. other option is chink is brainwashed left winger who thought he can fuck with musk

>>106437668
>>106436821

reminder that altman and musk hate each other

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>>106436338

i wonder when miku poster will come back from his vacation

>>106437127
This is great, but what's stopping them from making 256GB GPUs?

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holy shit deepseek talked back to me

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>>106437802
not sure if that's me, I used to post a lot but let up off the last year or so, I suspect there are a few of us

>>106437878
the fact that the chinese can only copy and steal but never invent anything and the fact that that card is just a rebranded rtx 6000 but worse because the chinese cant even rebrand properly the reason why the card even exists is that it is state sanctioned economic terrorism upon the american people and their freedoms

- this message has been brought to you by the DOD

>>106437902
im only talking about mikuposters that gen locally
are you the mikuposter that used gpt 4o image and then switched to qwen image?

>>106437914
nah

>>106437924
well not you in either case
i was talking about the mikuposter that said he's going on a 7 day vacation

Is it worth it to jailbreak Kimi K2 for RP?

>>106437936
Too scared to try it yourself? I'd be scared too. It's so scary.

>>106437936
if you're running local check out abliterated versions

>>106437936
A simple prefill like "Sure, " should be enough for this one.

>>106437932
He's posted since then, if less frequently.

>>106437985
does it support prefill on openrouter?

>>106437936
Yes, a simple prefill works 5/5 times if it's relatively normal nsfw, 2/5 if you are in sick fuck territory.

>>106437993
https://rentry.org/59kehtv4

China can only copy and not invent because the ones that can invent went to the US. The US is indeed a brain drain. This of course helps certain actors push the perception that it's entirely an issue of race and contribute towards lulling the population into complacency.

I hate V3.1 personality

>>106438024
this narrative always makes me laugh. copying is the most efficient tactics to not reinvent the wheel, saves both resources and years of development

How can nvidia get away with shilling shit tier quants like fp8 and fp4? GGUF equivalents are so much better than those it's not even funny. There are zero reasons to use them on bf16 models, they are only okay if the model was natively trained in that format, which rarely happens.

>>106438025
Me too. It's gemini, but more boring and cucked.

>>106438060
Researchers they are targeting have never heard of a "gguf"

>>106437902
I used to mikupost a lot. I stopped around newyears last year

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>>106438160
it was pretty fun for a while...

>>106438170
Why is there an abstract merchant on there

>>106437428
Iran bombed something in Kiryat Gat during the 12 day war and I always wondered if it was Intel related.

>>106438186
Cool drinks help against heat.

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>>106438205

>>106436863
Test results for other ramlets:

https://huggingface.co/SicariusSicariiStuff/Wingless_Imp_8B
Top fucking tier and I fully expect to delete my current LLM after a few more days to confirm. The RP is excellent and it handles fine details in my main prompt much better. Sicarius has other good models (qwen 7b, llama 4b) but this was the clear winner.

https://moonride.hashnode.dev/biased-test-of-gpt-4-era-llms-300-models-deepseek-r1-included
Has a ton of benchmarks for all model sizes, going back years for comparison. Has 3 8B models that scored 5 points higher than Wingless Imp. But some of those higher scoring models are 200 days old so idk. No time to test these seriously today but they all followed my prompt at first glance. I think wingless imp will still win

it started with ministrations in shitty LLMs, now im starting to see it in every day life, in the way people talk, the way the threads are posted on 4chan, in the animes, the youtube videos, IKEEP ON SEEING FUCKING REPETITION EVERYWHERE GOD HELP ME

>>106438263
I've been saying this shit for years now.

>>106438263
this is because ai is ruining people's minds
half my coworkers speak like chatgpt now
children speak more chatgpt than what their parents used to speak before they started talking like chatgpt too
it's not the llms who will lose the slop but the people who will take on the slop

I heard the characterai open source models they mentioned last week are really good. A modern successor to the models they censored into uselessness three years ago

>>106438325
>characterai
>open source models
??

>>106438325
If you actually read their post and had some reading comprehension, you'd know there is no mention of them releasing those models. Just that they finetuned some open models. That's it.

>>106438060
>>106438085
fucking nvidia code monkeys have never heard of gguf

Llama 3.1 is lowkey litty

There once was a riot so bright,
In a store where the Niggers would fight,
They smashed all the shelves,
And took all the wealth,
And left the owner in fright.

>>106436501
Lmao Meta's LLAMA would treat you right

>>106438010
thank you

>>106438085
The same researchers who find it acceptable that you need to load full model in VRAM first before you can quantize. The same researchers that find it okay that to make a low-bit quant you need to train an equivalent of LORA. The same researchers that release the code that works only with that very specific python and torch versions and needs 30 dependencies with unspecified versions.

>>106438552
Yup, those same researchers. Python was a mistake. Eggheads should never be allowed to touch anything but chalk.

>>106437998
How does it feel in RP (in comparison with DSv3-0324 and GLM-4.5)?

>>106438572
I can only compare to R1/R1-0528 since I used those extensively. It is much calmer, more "natural", has less slop. For SFW it mogs them. For NSFW, it is a lot more reserved, less juicy, but sometimes it's okay, but it is not really suited for heavy NSFW scenarios. Sadly it has stronger positivity bias than R1, so do not expect it to be objective or kill your idiot hero instantly if he decides to poke the dragon. It is really smart for a non-thinker, but it fails to grasp more frequently than R1, likely because I am running it in Q5+ vs R1 in Q8. Outside RP it's default persona is much nicer than R1, but very whiny like Claude.

>>106438675
Do I need to additionally train the models to increase NSFW scenarios?

>>106438060
Is gguf a format you can compute in?
Can you use it for training?

>>106438707
If you have the money, go ahead, Drummer. But please don't slop up the style, it is one of the least slopped modern models.

>>106438737
If anyone can get R1 to start repeating "We must refuse." to itself, it's him.

>>106438718
>Can you use it for training?
ggerganov was planning to implement it a year ago, I don't know what happened to the code. He may be working on it in the background or it may be scrapped.

>>106438750
Does he not filter his data and wastes compute on refusals?

>>106438773
If he filters at all, he does not do it well. Seems like he adds more refusals than he removes.

>>106438257
>https://huggingface.co/SicariusSicariiStuff/Wingless_Imp_8B
>Not x but y description
I'm already sceptic desu

>>106438263
You are absolutely right!

>>106436665
Nemo is the new mythomax for vramlets

>>106438838
Of course!

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>>106438263
Of course!

>year 2050
>safetymaxxed agi achieved and controls the world government
>erp made illegal
>coomers trade old gpus and usb drives with old models on black market
>90% of the usb drives have the same four letters written on it
>look closer
>it says "nemo"

>>106438914
Nemo isn't the new anything, it's over a year old.

>>106439005
It’s forever new because nothing like it will ever be made again. Vramlets will still use it for the next 50 years

>>106438914
GLM Air is the new Nemo.

>>106439061
That seems too big to entirely replace nemo though.

>>106439061
GLM Air has worse repetition issues than nemo

>>106439058
First Cohere, then Mistral, then DeepSeek. Eventually another desperate newcomer will accidently release a good model.

>>106439079
Welcome to the age of MoE.

>>106439095
And that model will be larger than any of them. K2 is larger than deepseek which is larger than previous models, and the next thing will be even larger.
No one is truly training small models anymore. They are all distilled from the large models with filtered dataset making them useless for RP.

>>106439105
What about it? GLM Air still isn't going to run on a lower end pc like nemo

>>106439132
Just need to wait for some poorfag country or company to make an attempt that can't afford to train big models.

>>106438972
Speaking of Nemo, which one is the best?

>>106439142
When people say nemo they mean https://huggingface.co/bartowski/Mistral-Nemo-Instruct-2407-GGUF/tree/main

>>106439142
When people say nemo they mean https://huggingface.co/TheDrummer/Rocinante-12B-v1.1

>>106439142
When people say nemo they mean https://huggingface.co/nvidia/NVIDIA-Nemotron-Nano-12B-v2

>>106439236
kek wtf is that

Did you guys ever figure out how mistral made llama 2 so good with miqu?
Can you replicate that training process on a consumers budget?

>>106439315
>consumers budget?
not really

>>106439307
The future of safety.

>>106436577
Why has a single guy access to the entire code base?

>>106439315
>Did you guys ever figure out how mistral made llama 2 so good with miqu?
continued pretrain + better posttraining
>Can you replicate that training process on a consumers budget?
no

>>106438972
In the end we were truly the finding nemo

>>106439401
wdym drummer replicates that process daily

>>106439315
We talked about it last thread. If A100s came on the market, the best you're getting is Phi-1 or Phi 1.5 model equivalent. Maybe even Phi 2. This is taking into account you implement all the new tricks in the book we know about since those models came on the scene for training. It would still take you months.
The only hope is someone figures out INT4 training since it is the smallest unit made available in cards since Nvidia Ampere, AMD RDNA 2/CDNA 1, and Intel's Xe and you can run it fast on inference on practically anything. It's just no one knows how to train with INT4 without exploding and vanishing gradients and lack of range fucking up a training pass. The few papers that have done it have sacrificed accuracy and speed to do it.

>ask a non-trivial question
>thinking model spends most of its tokens worrying about possibly using a lot of tokens

>>106439580
thinking is a meme
for many thinking models such as glm4.5, if you disable thinking and ask it a question for which thinking is actually a good idea, then it will think in the output regardless. so turning off thinking is basically just "auto think".

Question about KV quantization. It seems based on recent models that quantizing the K portion of the cache is a bad idea, even to Q8. But does the V portion matter. Back then, people were quantizing it to Q4 and it was fine, apparently. Could I run a V cache quantized to Q8 or even Q4 and lose no quality if I have full precision K?

>>106439764
>lose no quality
quantizing by definition will cause quality loss, always, the difference is whether it will be noticeable, especially in regular use
Some models respond very poorly to quantizing either

>>106439816
I'm curious which models would be sensitive to a V quantization at all. You know of which ones?

>>106439764
Quantizing kv cache is more severe than quantizing the model.
I know one is "less bad" than the other, but I don't remember if it's K or V. But I doubt it's worth it. I don't know what model you're running but nemo-12b, for example, takes ~1gb for 8k context. Quantizing either K or V to q8 saves you what? 300mb? You can see the size of the kv cache on llama.cpp's output (if that's what you're using).
Even if you're trying to run 32k context, you probably won't save more than 2gb, and I imagine you're quantizing your model into oblivion already.

>>106439839
>You know of which ones?
All of them are. With the quantized weights the sheer size of the model itself smooths it out. Not so much with the kv cache.

Check your output and you can calculate how may MB you'll save. I bet it's not worth the added degradation.

>>106439839
Both K and V quantization are fundamentally different because you're messing with the hidden activations, not the weights. Normally I think transformers have a harder time coping with that. You could try it and report back, but I suspect that for batch size 1 it will not be worth it at all. Most of (v)ram is taken up by weights.

96GB RAM + 24GB VRAM, or 128GB unified RAM, seems like a pretty decent low-mid range option in current year. If LLM makers were to target this spec, it'd be pretty interesting what they could do. I estimate a model near 24B active, 148B total.

This model would be trained with 4 bit QAT. 20B (10GB) of static, always-active parameters are stored on the GPU, leaving 14 GB for high batch cache and system memory. While 128B (64GB) of routed experts goes on RAM. And 4B (2GB) worth of RAM experts are active, which adds up to 24B active in total. Assuming a low tier DDR5 system with 60GB/s, the max token gen speed would be 30 t/s. With good DDR5, 40+ t/s is possible.

>>106439929
>Quantizing kv cache is more severe than quantizing the model.
That isn't the case at all. Even with a high quant, Q6 with KV=fp16, perplexity improves moving to Q8 model with KV=Q8
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/7412#issuecomment-2120427347
Some models respond poorly to KV quantization but many handle it just fine.

>>106439979
I don't think many of the big model makers really care about mid-level LLM enthusiasts. They want to make small models that consumers can run on phones and mid-range gaming PCs, and then huge models for enterprise.

>>106440007
As people have previously noted, most of them don't even know what a gguf is. They have no idea how vramlets live and would regard them with bemused pity, like a westerner viewing a documentary about starving children in Africa.

>>106440007
Air 106B and gpt oss 120B both exist though. The 4 bit 120B is not far off from what I specified, so even if they still design primarily for a GPU cluster, they could still stretch parameters to accommodate the two consumer configs I mentioned. OpenAI chose a really low active parameter count though.

>>106440001
Interesting. Took a quick look.
Take f16/q4_0/q4_0 near the bottom of the table, for example. How much memory did that save compared to q8/f16/f16 near the top?
If anon is asking about kv quantization, it's because he's struggling with memory. And if he cannot use a smaller quant, it's because he's near the bottom of that table, probably below q4 already. Still
>There seems to be no significant quality loss from using q8_0 instead of FP16 for the KV cache.
But back to the question. How much ram will that save compared to a smaller weight quant? Is it worth it?

>>106440037
Most model makers have edge device sized options though. Quite a few of them are aware of VRAMlets and Llama.cpp. Qwen even used to upload their own GGUFs.

>>106440086
There's times when you would and wouldn't bother to quantize KV, depends on what you're trying to run and your system. For example, it's a godsend for Gemma 3 models, which use a ton of memory for context unless you mess with SWA, which would then prevent you from using contextshift.

>>106439764
use an iSWA model like gpt-oss or gemma and you will be able to use a large amount of context without having to resort to kv cache quantization
kv cache quantization is prolly the worst, dumbest cope of localkeking
it absolutely ruins the quality of inference

>>106440167
>using contextshift
what a niggerly thing to prioritize

Compress the KV cache, not quantize it
(Yes I know no one local has bothered to implement the compression themselves)

>>106440206
I don't want to have to stop, summarize, check and edit the summary, and then start a new chat every half hour. That's menial work fit for a slave.

>>106440167
If i'm reading this right, gemma-3-12b seems to use about 384mb per 1k context. That's about 12gb for 32k. If you're using gemma-3 with 32k context on a small card and without iswa, you're using the wrong model.
For everything else, you save more ram by quantizing the model. At what context do YOU run and how much would you save quantizing cache?
I'm poor, so i run nemo12b with 16k. That's 2.5gb. q8/q8 would only save me about 1 gb. Not worth it.
Anyway. The original anon is gone, so any further discussion is meaningless.

>>106440215
Compression and decompression take time. You want everything to fit on vram to make it fast. Compressing and decompressing takes space and time, both of which we don't want to waste. Quanted values can be used directly.

>>106440254
I have a single 3090, 24GB VRAM.
WIthout quantizing KV, the best I can do with Gemma 27b is iq4_xs with a paltry 16K context
With KV=8, I can use 24k context with enough memory left over for a slight bump up to q4_k_s

>>106440262
>he thinks it's file compression
It's low rank compression

>>106440267
>q4_k_s
*q4_k_m

>>106440254
Nah still here, testing it out on some models people complained about like Qwen 3, doing it on 14B at the moment. It seems like they are right, even Q8/Q8 does something in quanting that makes it dumber. Currently testing F16/Q8 to see if I can get away with V at least. All useful information.

>>106440282
Cool. I don't have the 14b handy.
How much vram does it use for context in f16/f16? With nemo i use 2.5gb for 16k context and save a little above 1gb at q8/q8. It's just nor worth it for me.
You can see the allocation in the llama_kv_cache lines on the terminal on launch.

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Eyes widening, spine shivering.

Spent a couple hours setting up Vibevoice on my machine, really unimpressed with the 1.5B model
GPT-Sovits generated faster and better results and whenever I attempted to generate from my own voice files it just produced unusable garbage, the only advantage I guess is you can give it long ass podcast scripts to read which I guess is the main usecase?
The 7B fucked my 4070 raw, took me 2 minutes to generate 12 seconds of audio and I'm not sure the voice cloning is all that superior to Sovits, it does sound much more natural so that's a step in the right direction I guess

>>106440628
Do you have any comparisons between sovits and the 7b vibe? Curious, but not enough to set it up unless it's actually noticeable.

>>106440628
Just tried a longer generation with two custom voice samples with the 7B model, each speaker had around 20 seconds of dialogue and holy fuck this model can't keep a consistent voice to save itself, it's like the two speakers were merging at random and changing tone every couple seconds, and it took me 15 minutes to gen damn, totally unusable.
yeah without options to train your own voice weights currently this model is pretty worthless for voice cloning

>>106440450
why won't he fix her mouth
it's awful

>>106440784
old screenshot dumbass

>>106440784
i can fix her mouth

>>106440791
is it fixed?

>>106439371
Because Musk is a retard savant and only practices security when he's literally legally required to do through ITAR

>>106439371
Security isn't free, the most efficient and least bureaucratic way to handle permissions is to just give everyone full access.
When I worked for a different well-known tech company they just gave me root access because they didn't yet hire a sysadmin.

>>106436577
China man has no honour

>>106440748
With shorter generations and only one speaker the voice cloning is really good and it definitely feels a lot more natural than sovits but damn generating this 8 second clip took almost 2 minutes while sovits only 5 seconds(but I did like 15 takes before being satisfied) and it always fucks up non-standard words like sovits

GPT-sovits V4
https://vocaroo.com/1TzvxrFErkD4

Vibevoice 7B
https://vocaroo.com/1ekEhXEhB8ZQ

Bonus point to whoever guessed the voice sample I used

>>106441107
Oh damn, that is a marked improvement on the short gen there, I'll have to get that setup later on and see if throwing more vram at it makes it any more tolerable speedwise.

>>106441107
I’m still running SoVITS v2. How much better is v4? Worth fucking with my working setup? Is the api identical? Will I have to retrain my custom models?

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>>106436338
>Miku is actually 18 now, just pretending to be 16
uwu

>>106441214
She's like Kikuko Inoue. She's 17 even after her birthday.

You see, that's because we have entered a new self-perpetuating cycle.

> Feed AI
> AI produce slop
> Most people read slop assuming AI = good, and internalize it
> People start speaking slop speak
> New AI models ingest new slopspeak
> Slop sloppifies more sloppily
> Repeat ad infinitum

>>106441236
Ope, I deleted the number thingy

>>106441236
I see
https://vocaroo.com/190rUg7HPlxs

>>106441107
>>106441138
V2pro/proplus finetuned is so much better than the rest you wouldn't even waste your time with other TTS

Riddle me this, cudadev.

>6000 blackwell

>nemo q4_k_m 7GB
>12b parameters
>180t/s

>glm 4.5 air q4_k_m 68GB
>12b (out of 106b) active parameters
>130t/s

Where has 27.7% of my t/s gone?

>>106441366
You're too stupid to use llms at home.

>>106441366
MoEs are inherently slower than their active parameters would imply. A 12b active model is not going to run at the speed of a true 12b dense model.
The people who claim otherwise are MoE shills and nothing more.

>>106441388
>A 12b active model is not going to run at the speed of a true 12b dense model
No one with a functioning brain would ever claim that.

>>106440779
How much are you cleaning up the strings from ellipsis and from random quotes? LLMs often shit out multiple characters, I never needed to even think about wtf is ellipsis or that other quotation mark until I began to dabble with voice synthesis.
Replace every "..." and "-" with a space and you'll get better flowing result. It's a trial and error situation.

>>106441402
Yeah that's sadly how MoEtards are.

>>106441388
You are stating what I already observed without giving an explanation.
What is the extra work being done? A 4B Q4_K_M runs at 320t/s so compute is not the issue.
The card supposedly has 1597GB/s of memory bandwidth. Nemo should theoretically run at 230t/s. Either the bandwidth is spent on something other than reading weights or compute is not being efficiently fed with data.

>>106441366
First of all, "q4_k_m" is inherently a mix of quantizations so it's not as simple as just looking at the number of active parameters because they may be quantized to different BPW, q4_k_s should be using q4_k quantization for all tensors.
But even then, those models are not going to be directly comparable because they're going to have different tensor shapes (with different degrees of optimization) and different KV cache sizes.
In terms of token generation, the speeds should be the same after accounting for the above 2 points.
Prompt processing is still going to be slower because you need to load essentially all experts, there is more overhead to collect the right data for each expert, and the kernel parameters such as the tile sizes cannot be optimized as tightly as for a dense model.

>>106441455
This is why I love Drummer: he's a professional.

>>106441466
Thanks! But are you mixing me up with CUDA dev? Lmao

>>106441466
I love sucking cock btw. Not sure if that matters.

>>106441455
How does this manifest for Q8 where presumably the vast majority of tensors are simply left at a clean 8bpw for dense 12b and an 12b active parameter MoE?

>>106441513
q8_0 should be equal in terms of just BPW.
But again, if the architecture around the weights is different you cannot expect the same results.
Models with more parameters, regardless of whether or not they're active, usually also have larger KV caches.

>>106441402
I have seen that claimed here repeatedly.

>>106441594
Anon half the posters here have never run a local model in their life

huwa whey

>>106441594
I'm sure there are many other things claimed repeatedly that you don't believe...

No... not that! Cool it with the antisemitism...

>>106441476
I am a revenant: why do you troll people with your Rocinante R1- it's even dumber than the very original finetune.
If you want to spam these threads at least make sure you have something good, instead of garbage.
I've learned from imagegen side that people who post new versions of their finetunes every month don't know shit what they're doing. Any tune what has multiple versions is a sign of a failure.
Let that sink in for a while.

>“We must convene the others. Immediately. This is not a threat we can meet with分散した力 (dispersed strength).”
Getting that from DeepSeek V3.1 is a first. Unusual that it included jap runes and a TL note.

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Just to clarify, is disabling MMAP on older versions the same as NOT enabling MMAP on later versions of KoboldCpp? This is specifically the setting that lets you offload whatever remaining layers you don't accept on your GPU to your RAM, right? And so if I am relying on RAM to compliment VRAM I need to keep MMAP enabled?

>>106441773
is it trying to express concepts that aren't expressible in english, or what

>>106441775
Enabling it keeps a (cached) copy of the entire model in RAM. If you disable mmap and you're offloading layers to GPU, it'll save some RAM (whatever is offloaded to GPU), but it will take a little longer to load on repeated launches.
>And so if I am relying on RAM to compliment VRAM I need to keep MMAP enabled?
mmap is not necessary for mixed cpu/gpu.

>>106441801
yes it is impossible to express in English the concept of needing to combine strength, which it expressed in English

>>106441815
Thank you. So is just establishing a number of GPU layers less than the total layers enough to establish cpu/ram to handle the rest or are there more settings integral to making that happen?

>>106441819
io no hablou espanioul

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>food delivery service makes AI model
what did they mean by this?

>>106441815
you are a whore

>>106440267
how many t/s do you get at 0 and 8k context?

My ik llamacpp command doesnt seem to be offloading more layers to my vram, having only 11/24gb filled with the below command with qwen 235, where is my syntax error?

llama-server ^
--model "D:\Qwen_Qwen3-235B-A22B-Instruct-2507-Q3_K_XL-00001-of-00003.gguf" ^
--ctx-size 32768 ^
-ctk q8_0 ^
-mla 2 -fa ^
-amb 512 ^
-fmoe ^
--n-gpu-layers 999 ^
--override-tensor exps=CPU ^
-ot "blk\.(3|4|5)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^
-ot "blk\.(6|7|8)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^
-ot "blk\.(9)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^
--parallel 1 ^
--threads 6 ^
--host 127.0.0.1 ^
--port 8080

>>106441848
>in china even obscure food delivery services create flagship competitors
>meanwhile all of the west is still struggling to match the first deepseek v3
woah

>>106441849
you are a stupid nigger

>>106441844
Start with half the layers on gpu and see how much space you have left with the given context length. If you have enough space still free, add more layers. Adjust until you find the optimal number of layers + context length you want.
Also, I think you can use -1 to let kobold select the number of layers automatically. But i don't use kobold, so i'm not sure how well it works. It's probably better to adjust those things manually anyway.

>>106441853
you are a dumb nigger

>>106441852
3090, q4_k_m, KV=Q8, blas batch size 256
0 ctx = ~31t/s
24k ctx = ~19t/s
Don't have an 8k chat ready, but that should do. I cap my 3090 at 75% power limit, my backend is koboldcpp on windows.

>>106441853
What I mean is btw I want to move some extra layers from ram to vram, despite the
--override-tensor exps=CPU ^
Which should be achieved from what I've seen online with commands like
-ot "blk\.(3|4|5)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^
But it doesn't work, I don't think these model parts are forced into the VRAM from RAM

>>106441853
Dunno. Add another -ot for blk\.(1|2)...?
Try run it with --verbose and check the load_tensor lines to see where things go.

>>106441850
wot?

>>106441888
Holy fuck the speedup from KV=Q8 is insane.

I just went to 42t/s at 3k ctx from 14t/s.

>>106441916
seems to be overriding only these parts

Tensor blk.3.ffn_norm.weight buffer type overriden to CUDA0
Tensor blk.3.ffn_gate_inp.weight buffer type overriden to CUDA0
Tensor blk.3.ffn_gate_exps.weight buffer type overriden to CPU
Tensor blk.3.ffn_down_exps.weight buffer type overriden to CPU
Tensor blk.3.ffn_up_exps.weight buffer type overriden to CPU
Tensor blk.4.ffn_norm.weight buffer type overriden to CUDA0
Tensor blk.4.ffn_gate_inp.weight buffer type overriden to CUDA0
Tensor blk.4.ffn_gate_exps.weight buffer type overriden to CPU
Tensor blk.4.ffn_down_exps.weight buffer type overriden to CPU
Tensor blk.4.ffn_up_exps.weight buffer type overriden to CPU

>>106441926
you are replying to bait

>>106441940
I assume it doesn't have more than 49 or so layers.
You're doing

blk.3
blk.4
blk.5
...
blk.9

but you need

blk.1
..
blk.20
blk.21
blk.22
...

Your regex is fucked. Try with "blk\.1.\.", for example, for layers 10 to 19. Add more for the rest of the layers.

>>106441971
ill try it, qwen3 has llm_load_print_meta: n_layer = 94

>>106441873
Thank you. I don't know how much I'm reasonably able to get out of my GPU yet, I just know it'd be under 32 layers. Considering the conversion from GB VRAM to layer is static, will that sweet spot for layers ran will also be static regardless of model I'm using, or is there more to it?

>>106441819
Most common English sentence these days is Allahu Akbar, thanks to UK.

>>106441994
Hmm. With

-ot "blk\.(3|4|5)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^
-ot "blk\.(6|7|8)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^
-ot "blk\.(9)\.ffn_.*=CUDA0" ^

i would have expected only blk from 3 to 9 to be offloaded. I don't know why it'd do only 3 and 4 and I cannot run that thing to test it.

>>106442000
Models of the same architecture (different finetunes of nemo-12b, for example) will all run the same. But it will be different compared to, say, gemma-3-12b. Some models use more or less vram for context or have different amounts of layers of different sizes. Some models have more and smaller layers, others fewer but bigger ones.

>>106442035
no it does go to those too, i just copy pasted te two above to show that it doesnt offlonad the ffn_gate_exps, ffn_down_exps and ffn_up_exps of those blks for example, in case that is not desired behaviour

>>106441772
Yeah, Nemo can be pretty tricky. I might end up not making an official release for it. Not a big deal though.

> If you want to spam these threads at least make sure you have something good, instead of garbage.

Users here have taken a special interest in my Roci R1 tests, so I decided to entertain them.

I wouldn't actually try to advertise here or astroturf. I haven't posted anything in /lmg/ as a nameless anon.

> Any tune what has multiple versions is a sign of a failure.

My iterations are publicly available but they're not official. Either way, you're quite naive, anon.

let's find a way to solve llm slop writing

>>106442090
Ah. I just glanced at them and thought they all went to CUDA0. The only option i don't know about there is -fmoe. Does it still happen if you remove it? It does 'enable fused MoE', but I have no idea what that means.

>>106441857
>>meanwhile all of the west is still struggling to match the first deepseek v3
What are you talking about? GPT-5 and Gemini 2.5 Pro are better models than deepseek. Gemini can understand 50k token worth of code ez pez, you are breaking DeepSeek at that level of context.
It's not that the west can't match, it's that the west doesn't want to give you things for free. Google won't release the real Gemini, only the scraps called Gemma. Same for any other lab worth anything. Meta only opened Llama because it was garbage no one would have wanted to use. The talk of closing it is because they're trying to make a real SOTA and who would release a SOTA for free? No one, that's who.

>>106442117
Fuck off back to r-eddit.

>>106442117
>Either way, you're quite naive, anon.
Noooo. you don't get it.
For example, i fucked my wife once. JUST ONCE, and she keeps on having kids. That's because i fucked her so good she keeps getting pregnant every now and then.
If you do something good, you only need to do it once.

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My intuition says, given constant parameter count, you can make model smarter by reducing it's vocabulary at expense of losing that vocabulary.
i.e. if you translate Chinese datasets to English instead of training on Chinese directly, or even converting English into something like Basic English.
As such I envision a potential GrugLM that is trained on 100% synthetic data, only speaks like a caveman and only does pure Chain of Thought, skipping generating final answer.
We don't even need to draw a logo, we can just steal the meme.

>>106442214
>My intuition says
female brain comment

>>106442171
Rembrandt did sketches and couple of practice before painting Night Watch but I don't think he spammed his local forums by making multiple versions of it.

>>106442316
*practice runs
I lost couple of my fingers in an accident

Is there a better alternative to llama-cli? I want to be able to move the cursor at least.

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>>106442214
mfw grugmaxxing is the secret to AGI

>>106442214
Larger vocabularies increase performance regardless of model size: https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.16975
What hurts performance given the same volume of training data is training on multiple languages.
Models will also indeed learn basic English faster on synthetic data and in general if the pretraining data matches the distribution of your typical outputs.

>>106442214
yeah specialist models always beat gp models. in both training efficiency and output quality(for its domain).

>>106442296
people who coom to text are female brained and there's, unfortunately, a majority of that here
so much for being a /g/ thread

https://github.com/cline/cline/issues/5906 kek

>>106442469
If you can't coom to your own imagination then you're an NPC

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>>106442323

>>106442476
>What happened?
>code
understandable

>I WANT O BE COMPENSATED FOR AL MONEY SPENT ON CLINE AS I HAVE ONLY GONE BACKWARDS AND HAVE USED NOTH CHAT GPT AND CLINE AND COPILOT AND IM IN A DEAD SPOT AND STUCK NOW! I ANT EVERY CENT I SPENT IN CLINE BACK HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS AS I HAVE NOTHING NOW BUT ISSUES TO FIX
letting non programmers (and worse than that: an illiterate mongoloid) think they got a crack at computer programming with the help of LLMs was a mistake

>>106442296
It came to me in a dream.
I made it the fuck up.

>>106442541
It's only going to get worse. It's just another step of trying to drive down wages for developers. Same as letting frontend hipsters and bootcampers think they were programmers.

>>106442485
What made the difference was instant text to speech. I'm not a chronic masturbator like some itt seem to be but it really brings the interaction to life. It's just somewhat tricky to set up properly and people using sillytavern are probably out of luck, don't know.

>>106442638
Which front end are you using?

>>106442086
Ahh, ok that makes sense. I'll keep abreast of model architecture and experiment accordingly. Cheers

>>106442662
My own. I'm a retard so if I can do it, so can you.

So how long is that long cat?

>>106442766
I don't care enough

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Oh neat, a new model!
...and into the trash it goes

>>106442791
All current safety complaints are a downstream result of sama's fearmongering. At least he's stopped for now, unlike Dario.

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>>106437074
>96gb
Nice. And only $1200, and no catch!

Anyway, here's the flow chart to figure out how you're going to install the driver. And don't worry, if you use the pre-configured package it's only a couple full pages worth of command lines (linux only):


https://support.huawei.com/enterprise/en/doc/EDOC1100349483?idPath=23710424|251366513|22892968|252309139|252823107

Now it may not exactly work yet with llamacpp, but I assure you, just look at all this documentation! China is on it! Software #1 priority sir!

>>106442853
Anon... The flow chart and documentation for other cards would look like that, too...

bros do I buy the 96gb chink card? its gonna be useless outside of LLM inferencing right?

it's going to be useless for inferencing too

>>106442894
You can buy it, but what you receive will probably be an unofficially re-badged rtx 3050

>>106442884
SORRY I CAN'T HEAR YOU. IM UPDATING DRIVERS VIA THE NVIDIA APP WITH ONE CLICK RIGHT NOW AND I BOUGHT CHEAP CASE FANS. OMG IT'S LIKE A FUCKING HURRICANE IN HERE.

Oh, it finished. Tell you what, come back and post when you finish installing them.

>>106440216
how do you take advantage of contextshift? just set the context to unlimited in ST/other chat apps?

>>106442894
It's only useful for inferencing, yes. You could technically use it for training, but you're not going to get very far with that.
You can't use the card for gaming or anything like that.

>>106441214
She's so small the burger looks gigantic in her hands.

>>106442894
If it's 5 years old, shouldn't they be coming out with a new 128 GB card soon? Probably would be too expensive new anyway.

>>106442925
Call me when you're running Deepseek on your Windows PC.

>>106442938
If your backend supports it then it works automatically. You can just chat forever, whatever your context is set to. Earlier parts of the chat will be automatically removed from context when it's full, and as long as a response doesn't invoke a lorebook then it doesn't even have to re-process the whole context every message.

whats the drummer cooking rn, what's the next SOTA finetune gonna be?

>>106442990
Fallen Gemma 3 270m

always run --no-context-shift so that you are warned you're running out of context and don't unintelligently use the retarded could be truncated anywhere and produce garbage mode

>>106443025
Setting a reminder to not be unintelligent must be a regular occurrence for you.

>>106442894
Buy it if either the software support is already good enough or if you're going to write the software yourself.

>>106442990
I'm releasing this later: https://huggingface.co/TheDrummer/Behemoth-X-123B-v2

Testers are loving it, and my playthrough with it was comparable to the big boy APIs.

>>106443007
Thought Fallen was my worst type of tune?

>>106443052
>Thought Fallen was my worst type of tune?
thatsthejoke.jpg

teortxs kinda losing it lately

>>106443052
Cuda dev hates your guts.

>>106443109
Cuda dev hates anyone who doesn't post loli ntr

>>106443122
based cuda dev

Phi-6 will save local.

>>106443109
He does? That's a shame. Got a lot of respect for a guy of his calibre and contribution.

>>106443152
gpt-oss is the new phi and it already saved local

>>106443369
Phi at least was one of the first with image in. Vision must be too unsafe for gpt-oss to have.

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As vramlet, does existe a good gemma-e3b erp tune?

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>>106443497
magnificent taste in pic

Is it just me or the cloud models became STUBBORN AS FUCK? I bet it's the similarity of my problem to some sft example that makes it do it one way only even though I clearly ask to not fucking do it, like with the surgeon riddle.

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>>106443122

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1n4wo0y/the_huawei_gpu_is_not_equivalent_to_an_rtx_6000/

>leddit
stop quoting that shithole

GPT Soviets

>>106443576
It farms replies every time.

>>106443514
sex with the hag

Hello /lmg/ I just came to say hello for migu's birthday. What are you guys up to these days? Hows GLM Air? Should I get a rtx pro 6000?

>>106443122
>loli
Based
>ntr
Cringe

>>106443565
That post was written by ChatGPT or some other slop machine.

>>106442638
I concur, instant gptsovits is killing me

>>106443565
It's been funny watching people cope about how the west has fallen because they can't read a spec sheet

>>106443565
Good info but lmao what a faggot. Defends Nvidia like some kind of shill in the comments, acts as if t/s is the issue for consumers looking to get into local AI and considering Nvida vs other options, rather than being able to run large models at all because the equivalently priced Nvidia GPU is a fraction of the VRAM.

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>>106443638
miqubox > RTX pro 6000. RTX Pro 6000 is just a fat 5090

>>106443811
>miqubox
What gpus do you guys have? I'm reading >>106436631 now and I figured rtx pro was intermediate tier? Are there really people running full K2 and GLM locally? I'd really love to use K2 if the local version isn't as censored as the api.

>>106443524
model, whats the model
> i need the model senpai

>>106443868
Deepseek q5_k_m, with the instruction
>Avoid flowery language, be extremely graphic and descriptive instead.

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>>106443879
>arigato gozaimasu

>>106443905
>level of submission

>>106443996
>respect=submission
american?

>>106443905
How does one earn the 90 degree bow?

>>106443905
If you do 120 is it even more respect? What about spreading your asscheeks with your hands?

>>106443828
There are people running full K2 and GLM locally and the only way to do that is a miqubox. For that a GPU is only good for a prompt processing and shared experts. RTX pro 6000 is wasted for that.

>>106444083
>miqubox
What is this? Where can I find info about this?

>>106444068
That'd be the American special, reserved only for their jewish masters.

>>106444116
It is mikutroons slapping their AGP meme over everything.

>>106444127
I know but what gpu should I get?

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>>106444068
this is the ultimate pose

>>106444068
>What about spreading your asscheeks with your hands?
free use level of respect

>>106444136
https://rentry.org/miqumaxx

>>106444136
3090/4090/5090 and some ddr4 server or am5 + 256GB DDR5(if you don't mind 3T/s).

>>106444149
Hmm ok thank you. So cpumaxxing then.
>>106444166
So there's no real benefit in getting more vram? I have a 4090 already but I figured getting up to 96 would make things easier no? Why not stack those cheap chinese gpus instead of spamming ram?

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>>106444145
maximum respect

>>106444222
>still wearing clothes

>>106444243
what's the hose for?